[officedweller]

Yeah - it would have been almost a year ago - before most of our roof went on.
Interesting on how VanCity only picked it up now.

[ozonemania]

Yeah - it would have been almost a year ago - before most of our roof went on.
Interesting on how VanCity only picked it up now.Obviously they don't visit here enough!

[SFUVancouver]

I had these emailed to me. It was one of those forward-forward-forward emails, so I haven't a clue who took them. Mods, it's your call.

[edit] Sourced!

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/844/bcplace.jpg
Source: http://imgur.com/a/pRWfA

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5922/bcplaceanddowntown.jpg
Source: http://imgur.com/a/pRWfA

[red-paladin]

The pictures are breathtaking, but "Third-party articles and images must be properly formatted and credited" :(

[deasine]

We'll change those images to links for the time being.

[SFUVancouver]

Deasine, Red-Paladin, the changes you've made are fine with me. It felt like a grey area to me, hence why I made a point of spelling out why I hadn't sourced the images. They are good photos, though.

[SpongeG]

kinda late now perhaps - but this was on twitter - i missed it

Anyone catch BC Place's exterior light show as part of Illuminate Yaletown? 1-minute show "on the 0:00's" every 10 minutes. Will RT videos

[PaperTiger]

http://www.vancouversun.com/cancels+million+Place+renaming+deal+with+Telus/6265948/story.html


WTF!!!!

How in gods name can they claim poverty out of one side of their mouths and then turn their noses up at $40 Million!

God I miss Gordo. Christy is an idiot.

[dreambrother808]

:previous:

Agreed. Bloody ridiculous!!!!:yuck:

[WarrenC12]

Terrible decision.

[osirisboy]

Good I'm glad I wanted it to remain as bc place. Why are people so mad that it's not going to be named after some corporation? Are people upset with the missed revenue? So Are you guys also upset they don't name our airport and schools after corporations for examPle as well?

[David]

Great decision. BC Place is an iconic brand in itself and any name change wouldn't have ever been accepted by the general public anyways. Most people I know still refer to "GM Place" for one example, and clearly Telus wasn't going to be on board with something like "Telus Field at BC Place" so its their loss.

[Zassk]

I'm not sure why it couldn't have been "Telus BC Place".

[djh]

Telus probably learned their lesson from the Science World / Telusphere / Telus World of Science debacle. Everybody still calls is Science World because it's a simple, unambiguous name. The same confusion would most definitely have been repeated if the name would have ended-up being "Telus Field at BC Place". That $40m would have lead to little or no name recognition for the sponsor.

So yes, a good business call on Telus' part.

[s211]

So yes, a good business call on Telus' part.

????

the govt pulls the plug, and you say it's a good call by Telus?

Now THAT's what I call revisionist history.

[vanman]

Good I'm glad I wanted it to remain as bc place. Why are people so mad that it's not going to be named after some corporation? Are people upset with the missed revenue? So Are you guys also upset they don't name our airport and schools after corporations for examPle as well?

Exactly. I'm happy to know at least that not everything is for sale to the highest bidder in this province.

[flight_from_kamakura]

plus the government seems to be confident that the money can be recuperated through other sponsorship agreements that wouldn't have been possible with the telus deal. all told, i'd prefer to go that route. it's pretty cool when stadia have real names.

[dleung]

Exactly. I'm happy to know at least that not everything is for sale to the highest bidder in this province.

I completely share that feeling.

[djh]

????

the govt pulls the plug, and you say it's a good call by Telus?

Now THAT's what I call revisionist history.

Who knows what happened behind closed doors? We're hearing the press releases. For all either of us know, they both couldn't come to a mutually-beneficial agreement. So it was a good business decision on Telus' part not to sign any proposed contract.

Don't try to turn a non-partisan comment into a political opinion, please and thank-you.

[PaperTiger]

It's $40,000,000.00! That’s $9 for every man one and child in BC, that could have been used for schools, parks, child welfare, or any host of things more important than a name.

I'd be curious to know your source for the government being confidant of different sponsorships making up the difference. In the sun article it talked about Pavco being confident the government (that is tax payers) would make up the difference.

Don’t get me wrong I was all for the stadium renovation, and I’m not upset about some tax payers dollars going toward the facility, but if we can get those dollars back simply by using two words instead of two other word to describe the place then I think it is unconscionable to pass up that opportunity.

And to equate naming rights to a stadium to selling rights to schools and libraries is a total red herring.

[s211]

Who knows what happened behind closed doors? We're hearing the press releases. For all either of us know, they both couldn't come to a mutually-beneficial agreement. So it was a good business decision on Telus' part not to sign any proposed contract.

Don't try to turn a non-partisan comment a political opinion, please and thank-you.

Wow... a conspiracy theorist on top of a revisionist. :haha:

[djh]

Wow... a conspiracy theorist on top of a revisionist. :haha:

Now you're making needless hyperbolic statements, and calling names on top. Not necessary and not very civil. No history was "revisioned".


The point is, we don't know how this went down, so to say "the government" cancelled it is speculation. I simply said it was a good business idea for Telus not to sign a contract with the government if they would not get much name recognition. You're implying the Government held all the contractual strings and "pulled the plug", as if you know so for a fact. Do you know that's what happened? If so, please state your source.

[dreambrother808]

The article clearly states that Telus was not happy with the withdrawal of the offer.

Did you read it?

[jlousa]

It takes two to make a deal, Telus had strict conditions, the province wouldn't give on them so there was no deal. Telus had just as much influence on that outcome as did the province. Of course Telus isn't pleased with the withdrawal, I suspect neither is the province. They couldn't agree, I fail to see how anything djh said is inaccurate. Telus was wise not to sign a contract that they wouldn't be able to maximize name recongintion on.
I personally can't defend the province on this one, they felt the BC Place namesake was worth more then $40M, not suer I agree. If they have another offer on the sidelines then I'm willing to change my mind.

[logan5]

Air Canada pays 1.5 million per year for the naming rights for the home of the Toronto Maple Leafs and Raptors, which has much much higher media exposure than BC Place. On the surface it seems shocking that Pavco would turn down 2 million per year, but I'm sure there's more to the story.

It's a bit of an older list, but here's where the article is with a list of naming rights.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/stadiumnames.html

[NewWester]

I think we missed out on some hilarity: it could have been "bell pitch at telus stadium"

[huenthar]

I'm happy that it's staying BC Place... I really do hope though that the extra interior advertising possibilities is really worth the same $2 million a year. Seems pretty stupid, though - if the government was hardline about keeping the original name, why would they even start negotiations in the first place? How could it get to such an advanced stage when there is such a fundamental impasse? Doesn't make sense

[flight_from_kamakura]

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/844/bcplace.jpg
Source: http://imgur.com/a/pRWfA

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5922/bcplaceanddowntown.jpg
Source: http://imgur.com/a/pRWfA

wow. the first image gives us a nice view of cosmo and the hilton site on robson, but an even better view of how colossally stupid it would be if canadian metropolitan properties were allowed to obstruct the iconic water view of the stadium with that conceptual china television-style building. i don't at all support more parkland there, instead hoping to see a golden gai or something, or at least some canals, but man, i also really hope not to see that view obstructed by a tower, no matter how nice.

the second one give us a sense of how completely canada hockey place (hehe) would disappear from the landscape behind all the developments planned around it. not a huge loss imo, but certainly a noticeable one.

[osirisboy]

And to equate naming rights to a stadium to selling rights to schools and libraries is a total red herring.

Lol ok how exactly is it a red herring? All are built with tax payers money so why not sell naming rights to recoup those costs? So it's ok to name bc place telus place but not yvr to telus airport? What's the difference? Both are frigging tacky

[dreambrother808]

I understand the emotional desire to defend more unique and individual naming such as Fenway. But BC Place? Come on! That's already the name of our whole entire province! It's not going to be lost in the sands of time.

[cc85]

Would you support a bid for Miller Genuine Draft to purchase naming rights to BC Children's Hospital for 50 million? Imagine all the publicity! 50 million dollars can do a lot for sick kids!

How about taking a wild ride along the Trojan Highway (formerly the STS Highway)?

[Waders]

The Vancouver Sun's article (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/puts+brakes+million+Place+renaming+deal+with+Telus/6265948/story.html) seems to give some detail what led to the decision. Telus wants the stadium to be named Telus Park :yuck: and "Telus’ demand that all public reference to BC Place should cease".

Also, the following might be a factor to the decision.
Bell, the minister, said killing the deal now lets PavCo sell advertising sponsorships on the inside of the building that he thinks will amount to more than $40 million over the same 20 year term...

[touraccuracy]

come on people, they're not idiots and they need money so clearly they valued those naming rights differently than telus did.

maybe telus wanted a deal that restricted other corporate advertising inside, and the gov't figures they can still sell the naming rights to someone else AND sell interior advertising for a combined amount greater than 40 mil. the province obviously feels they can get more money somehow and this is the sort of thing that is well researched and discussed before hand.

[LeftCoaster]

Wow... a conspiracy theorist on top of a revisionist. :haha:

I hardly think someone saying that what goes on behind closed doors of a boardroom not being reported makes them a conspiracy theorist. One would have to quite naive to assume that everything that is discussed in a boardroom makes the public realm.

I personally can't defend the province on this one, they felt the BC Place namesake was worth more then $40M, not suer I agree. If they have another offer on the sidelines then I'm willing to change my mind.

I'll quote this as it's about exactly how I feel regarding this deal. No way I would value nostalgia at $40M but I dont know the full story so I'll just have to wait and see.

Lol ok how exactly is it a red herring? All are built with tax payers money so why not sell naming rights to recoup those costs? So it's ok to name bc place telus place but not yvr to telus airport? What's the difference? Both are frigging tacky

Well there is some truth to what you are saying there is most certainly a difference between a sports stadium and a library. One is an inherently business related sports centre, the other is a cerebral place of learning.

In terms of naming the airport, I don't really have a problem with it, although I'd expect far more than $40M given the international exposure naming an airport would bring.

[osirisboy]

Lol ok just to be clear I never said libraries

I find city's selling naming rights to hinges as tacky and cheap. If yvr was named after a corporation it would make Vancouver look like some destitute desperate for cash city

[WarrenC12]

The Vancouver Sun's article (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/puts+brakes+million+Place+renaming+deal+with+Telus/6265948/story.html) seems to give some detail what led to the decision. Telus wants the stadium to be named Telus Park :yuck: and "Telus’ demand that all public reference to BC Place should cease".

Also, the following might be a factor to the decision.

Kind of like how PavCo said "It's ok that we didn't get the casino development, we'll get a bunch of other investment in the area to cover the same amount of money..." How's that working out?

[red-paladin]

In terms of naming the airport, I don't really have a problem with it, although I'd expect far more than $40M given the international exposure naming an airport would bring.

Don't airports with obtuse names already confuse travelers enough? If it were named the HSBC airport, that sounds like it could be anywhere :shrug:

[TwoFace]

Don't airports with obtuse names already confuse travelers enough? If it were named the HSBC airport, that sounds like it could be anywhere :shrug:

Airports don't get named after fast food restaurants or banks, rather historical figures like Trudeau, Pearson, Kennedy etc..
:rolleyes:

[officedweller]

come on people, they're not idiots and they need money so clearly they valued those naming rights differently than telus did.

maybe telus wanted a deal that restricted other corporate advertising inside, and the gov't figures they can still sell the naming rights to someone else AND sell interior advertising for a combined amount greater than 40 mil. the province obviously feels they can get more money somehow and this is the sort of thing that is well researched and discussed before hand.

That's what the statements made by the Government seem to infer (they wouldn't be allowed to disclose specific terms and conditions).

That seems odd if other third party advertisers were banned from inside "Telus Park"
(i.e. Rogers Arena has lots of third party advertising inside - that's the whole reason for the pixelboard displays ringing the stadium
(maybe Telus demanded terms tied to its supply of the pixelboards?))

If they sold off the exclusive rights to use those pixelboards (for 20 years) for a fixed fee, that would be a dumb move.
If they sold those rights at all (which wouldn't be advisable) it would have to be for a royalty (%age of the revenue), not a fixed fee.

Sounds like someone in Government actually read the contract.

[Steveston]

Frankly, I'm rather sick of the whole corporate naming of arenas and stadia. Call me old fashioned, but I long for the days when you could actually tell where the stadium was located by it's name. I knew that "Three Rivers Stadium" was in Pittsburgh, "Taylor Field" was in Regina, "The Forum" was in Montreal, and "The Orange Bowl" was in Miami. Where the heck is the "Edward Jones Dome", "M & T Bank Stadium", "The Prudential Center", or "Scotiabank Place"?

Gimme "BC Place" over "Telus Park" anyday of the week.

[cornholio]

Here is what I think is even more moronic.

The province spending millions every year to promote the province, increase the brand value of their name, and instill citizen pride in where they live, and then going and look at selling the naming rights to their own ****** stadium???? Do people not know why public buildings have the names they have???? The value in this? People go this route and then wonder why they end up living in a dump where no one gives a dam about the place they live, no pride, no loyalty.

Selling the naming rights of ANY public building or place is what I call moronic.

[officedweller]

Gimme "BC Place" over "Telus Park" anyday of the week.

Sounds like a snowboarding run...

[red-paladin]

I can see now..

"Do you know how I get to Telus Gardens?"
"It's up three blocks"
"Thanks!"
"No prob, I just came back from there, I bought an iPod"
"You can buy iPods at a football stadium?"
"No that's Telus Park"
"I've already been to the Omnimax, where's the football stadium?"
"..."
:jester:

[flight_from_kamakura]

yeah, i still can't believe that the company would be so brand-focused that they call their condo project 'telus gardens', it's actually sort of offensive.

[officedweller]

Various articles:

http://www.vancouversun.com/Nixing+Place+deal+looks+like+blunder/6276069/story.html

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Telus+reimbursed+Place+signs+after+failed+renaming+deal/6273586/story.html

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Grease+leaking+from+cables+Place+roof+cost+million/6273751/story.html

One article - which I can't find on-line - indicated that Telus had reserved 30% of the time on the interior digital boards - so not exclsuuve use of the interior signs.

[TwoFace]

I wouldn't put this one to bed just yet, especially now that they have to re-negotiate the existing rewiring work that was already done.

The key wording from that Vancouver Sun article could be ...

"The government cancelled the naming deal last week after it said the $40 million price tag to change the stadium's name to "Telus Park" was not rich enough and that the public wouldn't want to lose the building's iconic name.

[dtrain]

Frankly, I'm rather sick of the whole corporate naming of arenas and stadia. Call me old fashioned, but I long for the days when you could actually tell where the stadium was located by it's name. I knew that "Three Rivers Stadium" was in Pittsburgh, "Taylor Field" was in Regina, "The Forum" was in Montreal, and "The Orange Bowl" was in Miami. Where the heck is the "Edward Jones Dome", "M & T Bank Stadium", "The Prudential Center", or "Scotiabank Place"?

Gimme "BC Place" over "Telus Park" anyday of the week.

Agreed - BC Place Stadium is not a PARK in any shape or form, it's a STADIUM.
I take my kids to play in the park, parks have trees, play area, etc.

[Vancity]

Bell should jump in, and rename bc place as Bell Stadium.

One more reason why the 'Caps need their own stadium. WHEN will that day come?

[catkat]

Not a lot of companies in Canada willing to or able to put their name on a sporting arena. Does it point to Canada's lack of private sector economic muscle? In any event, I'm getting sick of seeing Bell, Rogers, Telus, ______ insert Canadian Bank, on everything

[TwoFace]

One more reason why the 'Caps need their own stadium. WHEN will that day come?

Never.
They used to have their own house at Swangard, home to them and their 2-3 thousand fans.
I doubt that a venue is going to improve attendance if the product stays the same.

**edit.
Apparently the 1st season in the dome is looking better than I though, although not quit enough for an owner to be spending hundreds of millions on a private venue.
From SB Nation ...

"Barber indicated that the Whitecaps are about 1,000 season tickets below their cap and that 3,000 tickets remain for the first game in our Major League Soccer history against the Toronto FCs on March 19. Those are both large numbers, but take them in context. The Whitecaps' season ticket cap is 16,500, and a bit of Grade One subtraction tells us that means the Whitecaps have sold approximately 15,500 season tickets."

[Waders]

Bell should jump in, and rename bc place as Bell Stadium.

One more reason why the 'Caps need their own stadium. WHEN will that day come?

Well. Bell actually wants to called the stadium "Bell Pitch" :yuck:. Unfortunately they don't want to pay PavCo $40 million dollars.
This "Naming rights" story is getting quite interesting with Bell somehow got involved.

Source: Whitecaps, Bell red-carded by B.C. Pavilion Corp (http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Whitecaps+Bell+carded+Pavilion+Corp/6280565/story.html)

[crazyjoeda]

The province spending millions every year to promote the province, increase the brand value of their name, and instill citizen pride in where they live, and then going and look at selling the naming rights to their own ****** stadium????

That's an interesting perspective, perhaps BC Place should be re-named BC Place with BC referring to the province/Tourism BC. If the province is holding the naming rights it should leverage that for its own promotional purposes like any corporate entity would.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/7762645/640/7762645.jpg

[dreambrother808]

Heck, it's just not enough to actually look at the mountains, the ocean, our beautiful city, or pretty much anywhere else BC in order to instill some sense of wonder or pride.
Tourists or locals might even forget what province they're in.
Thankfully, we have the name of this stadium to rectify all that. :tup:

[cornholio]

Heck, it's just not enough to actually look at the mountains, the ocean, our beautiful city, or pretty much anywhere else BC in order to instill some sense of wonder or pride.
Tourists or locals might even forget what province they're in.
Thankfully, we have the name of this stadium to rectify all that. :tup:

The reason Telus is willing to spend 40million is because it is worth it in a marketing sense. The province needs to and does actively also market its self, and spends lots of money on that. Using something especially like BC Place, something that is already supposed to represent the province, to market the provinces name has already more value to the province then using that same stadium to market the Telus brand. If the value is 40million to Telus its probably 60million+ to the province.

With your logic why should Telus spend 40million on the naming rights, everyone knows Telus, they have piles of advertisement campaigns already that hit every single person in this province, why spend that money on the stadiums naming rights? Infact why doesnt Telus them selves sell their own naming rights? They can call their downtown development Bell center, or Honda park for a fee.

Selling naming rights is short sighted imo and doesnt take the bigger picture in to account, at the end of the day the province ends up being on the losing end in the long term. I am confident that the 40million in revenue is easily exceeded in significantly higher indirect costs to the province.

I do however think that the province should be more proactive in using its facilities and resources at its disposal to more efficiently market its self.

[cornholio]

That's an interesting perspective, perhaps BC Place should be re-named BC Place with BC referring to the province/Tourism BC. If the province is holding the naming rights it should leverage that for its own promotional purposes like any corporate entity would.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/7762645/640/7762645.jpg

Thank you so much! You understand where I am coming from.:)

[hankthetank]

Thank goodness the deal fell through. This looks awful!

http://www.vancouversun.com/6279866.bin?size=620x400s

[officedweller]

Here's the link to the story where that pic comes from.

Huge difference in sign size. The Telus proposal spans almost 4 masts while the Pavco sign spans only 2 masts.

I can imagine a problem with the Telus sign shining right into a new tower on the Plaza of Nations site.

I wonder if recent sign issues with the City played into the dispute?? I'll bet it did.



Oversized Telus sign blamed as BC Place deal breaker
Minister of Jobs, Tourism and Innovation Pat Bel sheds more light on the failed renaming of BC Place
By Jonathan Fowlie, Vancouver Sun
March 13, 2012

VICTORIA — The B.C. Liberal government says it cancelled a deal to rename BC Place in large part because Telus was planning to place two signs on the outside of the stadium that were almost 2.7 metres (nine feet) larger than agreed.

...

“It got to the point where it felt like we were trying to nail Jell-O to the wall. The deal was changing so much,” added Bell, who said he and Finance Minister Kevin Falcon, not cabinet, made the final decision.

...

Bell said the government originally told companies it was looking to sell rights that included the ability to place two illuminated signs on the outside of BC Place that would fit within a ring that encircles the base of the roof. Such signs would have been about 3.3 to 3.9 metres (11 to 13 feet) high.

The now constructed “Telus Park” sign was 4.5 metres (15 feet) for much of the writing, a Telus spokesman said, though he agreed some letters stretched to almost 6.7 metres (22 feet).

During negotiations, Telus told the government that if it had to reduce the size of its planned sign, it would also significantly reduce the $1.75 million per year it was prepared to pay for naming rights.

The Telus spokesman, who did not want to be named due to sensitivity of negotiations, confirmed that was Telus’s position in its written terms, but added the company later took that off the table.

...

For government, the concern was not just having a much larger sign on BC Place, but also the fact that Telus would be getting a much better deal than had been offered to other companies in the initial call for proposals.

...

And PAVCO's proposal to Telus:

http://htmlimg3.scribdassets.com/5c9mtdfk8w1gk1qt/images/1-3c82a63d4b.jpg

http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/5c9mtdfk8w1gk1qt/images/8-26bc064fa6.jpg

http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/5c9mtdfk8w1gk1qt/images/11-5bae7333f3.jpg

[http://htmlimg2.scribdassets.com/5c9mtdfk8w1gk1qt/images/10-ee82c696cd.jpg


http://www.vancouversun.com/Oversized+Telus+sign+blamed+Place+deal+breaker/6291676/story.html

[Prometheus]

Although the style of the proposed sign is not as cool or tasteful as I had envisioned (for example, I had envisioned a series of simple, crisp, clean looking backlight signs covering the exposed concrete bulkheads around the stadium), it is hardly a reason to forfeit $40 million dollars of revenue.

[Prometheus]

officedweller, why did you edit the following relevant passage from the Sun article?:

During negotiations, Telus told the government that if it had to reduce the size of its planned sign, it would also significantly reduce the $1.75 million per year it was prepared to pay for naming rights.

The Telus spokesman, who did not want to be named due to sensitivity of negotiations, confirmed that was Telus’s position in its written terms, but added the company later took that off the table.

“In the later stages of negotiations we agreed that if the signs needed to be reduced in size, or were required to be reduced in size, that we would not reduce our funding and that we would hold the accountability on that front,” said the spokesman.

“Towards the later stages we said, look, we’re willing to drop that.”

http://www.vancouversun.com/Oversized+Telus+sign+blamed+Place+deal+breaker/6291676/story.html



So, Telus was willing to change the signs and pay the full $40 million. Yet the government still cancelled the deal.

[dtrain]

I don't mind Pavco's "Telus Place" logo & sign design, it's tasteful and a bit more understated, although the font would have had to match Telus's corporate wordmark for them to accept it. Too bad they couldn't have agreed on that. The dogwood in 'Telus Park' sign would have been absolutely huge!

[Homeowner]

officedweller, why did you edit the following relevant passage from the Sun article?:



So, Telus was willing to change the signs and pay the full $40 million. Yet the government still cancelled the deal.

So unfortunate. How are we going to cover those costs of renovating the place? Tax payer dollars!! Very dumb decision on the liberals part.

[officedweller]

officedweller, why did you edit the following relevant passage from the Sun article?:

So, Telus was willing to change the signs and pay the full $40 million. Yet the government still cancelled the deal.

Because it was already stated in the part that I did quote.

The Telus spokesman, who did not want to be named due to sensitivity of negotiations, confirmed that was Telus’s position in its written terms, but added the company later took that off the table.


One thing that is a big factor is that government is very cautious not to vary the terms of an RFP in negotiations - otherwise unsuccessful bidders may have a claim against them for an unfair process.

[Prometheus]

Because it was already stated in the part that I did quote.

Thank you. I see that now.

[BCPhil]

Since when did this province fill up with whores so willing to sellout the name of publically owned property to make back a few pennies on the dollar spent? This would have been what... 6% of the total cost of the upgrades, OVER 20 YEARS!? It would hardly cover the cost of inflation on the interest on the debt payments.

So big freakin' deal we didn't get the money. I for one am glad I don't have to look at something I paid for with the name Telus all over it like they invented the god damn place....

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go to Science World... no wait, I mean fucking TELUS World of Science.

And note, the capitalized TELUS emphasizing the name is how it is printed up on official TELUS World of Science material (It's even in Bold in many places). Even though, according to the FAQ they don't do jack squat for the non-profit organization:

Is Science World government-funded/owned by TELUS?
No. Science World is a non-profit organization.

TELUS owns naming rights to our False Creek facility.


So seriously, why is it so wrong to keep our legs closed and turn down a few bucks from a company many people in BC absolutely HATE? In return we get to keep the name of a building that has hosted the Queen and the Pope and been a venue for many great concerts, multiple Grey Cups (including 2 of the only 4 ever Grey Cup Wins by the host in CFL history), Expo and the Olympics.

I'm with cornholio on this one. BC should leverege the public investment in BC Place for the gain of the people of BC, not some corporate entity, which in fact distanced themselves from their BC history by dropping the name BC Tel. That's how much they respect the identity and heritage of British Columbia.

But go to the BC Place website and you have no indication whatsoever that there is heavy (read: total) taxpayer involvement with BC Place. Any curious person from outside the province doing a google search of the stadium (maybe they want to read seating charts for a football game they are coming to or a concert, or see other information) should be hit by ads for BC Tourism.

And the name itself does have meaning. The name is a symbol and recognition that BC Extends beyond the GVRD. It is BC's stadium. Built at a time when focus was on Vancouver itself (Expo), and the rest of BC was feeling left out. The name is there to remind us, and everyone else, that this stadium isn't just for wealthy elite in the city, but that it is a public facility, built by the taxpayers of this province for all to enjoy. It was the centerpiece of the BC Pavilion at Expo, built to show off what this entire province is capable of doing. At the time we were considered back-water hicks inhabiting fishing villages and logging camps, but we built the worlds largest air supported domed stadium. BCers did that: hence BC Place.

[JimmyJ]

^^^^^^^

:cheers::iagree:

[SpongeG]

did anyone catch the global news report just now on the issue?

they said that some dude from telus and some dude from the liberals - maybe falcon? - had a shouting match over this issue apparently though when questioned by the reporter tthe government side said no

[Porfiry]

BC should leverege the public investment in BC Place for the gain of the people of BC, not some corporate entity, which in fact distanced themselves from their BC history by dropping the name BC Tel. That's how much they respect the identity and heritage of British Columbia.

Oh, so you think they should've named the merged company "BCTel"? Just how well do you think that would have been received in Alberta?

[Metro-One]

:previous:We use Bank of Montreal, Toronto Dominion, New york Fires, etc... here, why cant other places in the world use businesses with BC's name in it?

[SpongeG]

Bank of montreal and toronto dominion are no longer - they are know the more friendly BMO and TD

[cornholio]

Although the style of the proposed sign is not as cool or tasteful as I had envisioned (for example, I had envisioned a series of simple, crisp, clean looking backlight signs covering the exposed concrete bulkheads around the stadium), it is hardly a reason to forfeit $40 million dollars of revenue.

First of all it was $35million over 20 years, NOT $40million which equals to $1.75million per year, enough for a viaduct study and some change.

Second of all it was in today's dollars, so the real value is significantly lower. 1.75million today is not 1.75 million i 20 years, in fact its about half that.

Third of all it amounts to about $2.50 per ticket for all regular season home games of the Lions and Whitecaps, include the playoffs and other events and its not much at all. I will happily pay some change to not be subject to Telus's marketing attacks and a giant Telus sign defacing one of the most beautiful views in Vancouver.

Its over 20 years, 20 years. Lousy $35 million over the next 20 years of all our lives to deface the city, deface a land marks name, having to listen to Telus place being said millions of times on radios, tvs, in news papers :dead:

[NewfBC]

Jobs, Tourism and Innovations Minister Pat Bell, who had previously said a decision was made that it was important to retain the B.C. Place name, remained on the defensive Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/best+deal+Clark+says/6298952/story.html#ixzz1p6R0uOYA

Hmm.. Mr. Bell - conflict of interest maybe? Maybe he wants to see his name on the building. LOL :D

Ron.

[cornholio]

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/business/best+deal+Clark+says/6298952/story.html#ixzz1p6R0uOYA

Hmm.. Mr. Bell - conflict of interest maybe? Maybe he wants to see his name on the building. LOL :D

Ron.

What I find funny is that his right hand man is Kevin Falcon(another Kevin Falcon :D) ...What a opportunity for the NDP, they can drag Kevin Falcon's name in to any negative news about BC Place as a bonus, most people wont realize its a different person as it is linked to the Liberals already and the damage will be done.:)

[hollywoodnorth]

First of all it was $35million over 20 years, NOT $40million which equals to $1.75million per year, enough for a viaduct study and some change.

Second of all it was in today's dollars, so the real value is significantly lower. 1.75million today is not 1.75 million i 20 years, in fact its about half that.

Third of all it amounts to about $2.50 per ticket for all regular season home games of the Lions and Whitecaps, include the playoffs and other events and its not much at all. I will happily pay some change to not be subject to Telus's marketing attacks and a giant Telus sign defacing one of the most beautiful views in Vancouver.

Its over 20 years, 20 years. Lousy $35 million over the next 20 years of all our lives to deface the city, deface a land marks name, having to listen to Telus place being said millions of times on radios, tvs, in news papers :dead:

well put and I see things similar to you :cheers:

[Echowinds]

Bank of montreal and toronto dominion are no longer - they are know the more friendly BMO and TD

That's missing the point. The fact is, TD is still officially known as Toronto Dominion, and BMO is still officially Bank of Montreal. That's retaining their heritage while being easier on the consumers. A company with "British Columbia" in it can simply shorten their name...such as BC Tel. There's no "British Columbia" in it from a marketing angle.

I wouldn't harp on Telus as much due to the fact that it is formed from a company merger (and admittedly, Telus is a lot more regional neutral than BC Tel), but there's no reason why you couldn't market BC in a company name.

[Prometheus]

More juicy details:

Telus jumped through all hoops on B.C. Place — was still jerked around


By Michael Smyth, The Province, March 15, 2012


Telus was so confident of landing a deal to rename B.C. Place that it twice invited — and then twice uninvited — Hollywood music legend David Foster to attend the christening ceremony for the refurbished stadium.

Telus CEO Darren Entwistle, who knows Foster from charity work, asked the Victoria-born music man to attend a splashy ceremony renaming the stadium "Telus Park."

The invitation was made twice, and then cancelled twice, as negotiations between the government and Telus bogged down, eventually collapsing completely last week...

The Christy Clark government cancelled the proposed $35-million naming deal with Telus last week, offering a bewildering variety of explanations — everything from the proposed Telus signs being too big to a desire to keep the "iconic" B.C. Place name.

Telus is furious at all the excuses — and not just because the company's CEO had to twice eat crow with a Hollywood hotshot.

It was the government's own Crown corporation in charge of the stadium that put the naming rights up for sale, invited Telus to the bargaining table and even conducted focus-group testing on the new name.

"Telus is an appropriate naming sponsor for the facility," concludes a 25-page internal briefing note I obtained Wednesday.

Telus is "recognizably Canadian, financially capable and stable [and an] active sponsor of charity and community events," says the 2010 document, prepared for the brass at the B.C. Pavilion Corp...

"Bottom line: Telus meets and exceeds all criteria," the document concludes.

So why did it all fall apart? Clark repeated Wednesday that the proposed deal was bad for taxpayers, specifically saying Telus didn't put enough money on the table.

But insiders close to the negotiations insist the deal was comparable to other stadium-naming deals in Canada, and especially reasonable for a stadium featuring medium-market sports products such as CFL football and MLS soccer.

The company tried to accommodate the government's concerns about the "iconic" B.C. Place name by putting a dogwood flower emblem, instead of its corporate logo, on the sign.

Telus was so confident of landing the deal, after signing a "letter of intent" last March, that it went ahead and had three huge signs made by the Pattison Sign Group.

The three signs were constructed before the deal was put to bed because Telus wanted them ready for the stadium's grand reopening last September, as well as the Grey Cup game in November.

But, to the company's frustration and anger, the deal never got done and was eventually nixed.

The three massive signs are now gathering dust at a warehouse in Penticton, while the company decides what, if anything, to do with them.


Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Telus+jumped+through+hoops+Place+still+jerked+around/6305491/story.html#ixzz1pMXxjfSI

[SFUVancouver]

Something tells me that the Telus CEO won't forget about this when it comes time for the Liberals to run for re-election. Why on earth would a struggling government go out of its way to alienate the largest private employer in the province?

[twoNeurons]

Something tells me that the Telus CEO won't forget about this when it comes time for the Liberals to run for re-election. Why on earth would a struggling government go out of its way to alienate the largest private employer in the province?

And to ADD to that, a company that [essentially] chose Vancouver over Calgary?

For those that don't know, Telus was a merger between BC Tel and Alberta Government Telephones company, which had been combined and renamed Telus.

They chose Vancouver as their head office and kept the Alberta company's name (which made sense anyhow).

They bought ClearNet soon after and have used their advertising and look and feel ever since.

[Pinion]

Quebecor just agreed to pay $33 million plus $3.15 million annually for an arena in Quebec City with no big league team. If an NHL team is acquired, Quebecor would hand over $63.5 million for naming rights, plus $5 million in annual rent.

Puts the Telus deal in perspective.

Source: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391352

[hollywoodnorth]

Quebecor just agreed to pay $33 million plus $3.15 million annually for an arena in Quebec City with no big league team. If an NHL team is acquired, Quebecor would hand over $63.5 million for naming rights, plus $5 million in annual rent.

Puts the Telus deal in perspective.

Source: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391352

it sure does. the Telus deal was a BAD deal all around. The signs they wanted to put up would have made the stadium look horrible.

[Prometheus]

Puts the Telus deal in perspective.

Does it? The story also says:

The media empire landed the naming rights for the future arena and was granted exclusive rights to manage the facility.

That's a massive difference. The deal with Telus was for naming rights only; Telus would have had absolutely no say on the management of the stadium or rights to any of the stadium's revenue. That right would have remained exclusively with PAVCO (i.e., the province). Quebecor, by contrast, will essentially have total control over the arena and, I assume, its revenue.

Puts the Quebecor deal in perspective.

[Pinion]

How could they sign away revenue on an arena that cost them $400 million for $63.5 million + $5 million per year? That sounds highly unlikely.

[Prometheus]

Here is how the National Post describes the deal:

[MANAGEMENT RIGHTS]

Quebecor has agreed to pay the city to manage the arena for at least 25 years, with a possibility to extend the contract for an additional 15 years. Quebecor’s rent will be $4.5 million annually with a team, and $2.5 million without.

[NAMING RIGHTS]

The media company will get naming rights for $63.5 million if Quebecor succeeds in landing an NHL team, but the price tag drops to $33 million without NHL hockey in the building.

Source: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/03/25/quebec-city-quebecor-reach-final-agreement-for-nhl-calibre-arena/

So, if the above-mentioned term of 25 years for management rights also applies to naming rights, then Quebecor will pay $33 million (in the absence of an NHL franchise) for 25 years of naming rights. If that is correct, then Quebecor is paying $2 million less than Telus to get naming rights for 5 years longer than Telus.

[cornholio]

Here is how the National Post describes the deal:



So, if the above-mentioned term of 25 years for management rights also applies to naming rights, then Quebecor will pay $33 million (in the absence of an NHL franchise) for 25 years of naming rights. If that is correct, then Quebecor is paying $2 million less than Telus to get naming rights for 5 years longer than Telus.

Quebec is a small city and a small market, there are NO major teams in the arena, there are going to be virtually no major events at the arena. I think this deal was done for political reasons. Quebecor as a forestry company is going to rely on government handouts and the good will of the people, I think they are trying to just look like the good guys trying to bring a NHL franchise to the city and province.

[go_leafs_go02]

Quebec is a small city and a small market, there are NO major teams in the arena, there are going to be virtually no major events at the arena. I think this deal was done for political reasons. Quebecor as a forestry company is going to rely on government handouts and the good will of the people, I think they are trying to just look like the good guys trying to bring a NHL franchise to the city and province.

I bring you the extremely highly rated and HUGELY successful of a small market and city, called the John Labatt Centre in London, Ontario.

Closer to Detroit AND Toronto than Quebec City is to Montreal, and alot smaller in terms of size of a market to draw from - the John Labatt Centre has been ranked #1 in Canada and #4 in North America for its size.. (between 10-15,000 seat capacity)

YrFhwz5vIkM

[Pinion]

Prometheus, if the deal is anywhere near the BC Place deal, that means Telus isn't paying enough. As mentioned, Quebec is super small market with no teams.

I bring you the extremely highly rated and HUGELY successful of a small market and city, called the John Labatt Centre in London, Ontario.


??? And I bring you the Sydney Opera House, a very successful Opera House!

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, if the deal is anywhere near the BC Place deal, that means Telus isn't paying enough.

Or that Quebecor is paying too much.

Anyways, the deals are not the same. The Telus deal was significantly more expensive. For $1.75 million a year, Telus was going to be guaranteed naming rights for 20 years. For $430,000 less per year, Quebecor is going to be guaranteed naming rights for 25 years, if reports are correct.

[twoNeurons]

In addition, it's a pretty good bet that they will get an NHL team sometime down the road. An ice hockey team in Quebec again would be pretty big.

[go_leafs_go02]

??? And I bring you the Sydney Opera House, a very successful Opera House!

I was saying that small markets can have very good successful arenas that can cover sporting events and get major concerts to come to town.

[Acajack]

Quebec is a small city and a small market, there are NO major teams in the arena, there are going to be virtually no major events at the arena. I think this deal was done for political reasons. Quebecor as a forestry company is going to rely on government handouts and the good will of the people, I think they are trying to just look like the good guys trying to bring a NHL franchise to the city and province.

OMG. Quebecor is not a forestry company, it is one of the largest media conglomerates in Canada, with annual revenues over 10 billion dollars. Among its holdings is the Sun media group, tons of newspapers daily and weekly, plus the largest cable TV company in Quebec, the largest book, magazine and record distribution companies in Quebec (and some of the largest in Canada), the most popular mainstream TV network in Quebec, and it just launched its own sports network.

It sold off its printing division a few years ago, which at one time made it the largest commercial printing company in the world.

[Acajack]

In addition, it's a pretty good bet that they will get an NHL team sometime down the road. An ice hockey team in Quebec again would be pretty big.

A Quebec NHL team's market would in no way be limited to just the local metro area. It would have many fans all across the province, just like the former Nordiques had. Except for the immediate vicinity of Montreal, polls in the old Nords days showed the team had close to one-third fan support pretty much anywhere in Quebec, even in far-flung areas far away from Quebec City like Abitibi...

They won't say it officially but if the Nordiques come back they and the Habs will share the province of Quebec as a market like the New York Giants and New York Jets share their market, with each team having more concentrated support in certain areas of course.

[EastVanMark]

For a more BC context the Save-On Foods Centre in Victoria gets 1.25 million/yr for a junior hockey arena. Surely a massive structure like BC Place in a much larger market could land more than under $2 million/yr.

[WarrenC12]

For a more BC context the Save-On Foods Centre in Victoria gets 1.25 million/yr for a junior hockey arena. Surely a massive structure like BC Place in a much larger market could land more than under $2 million/yr.

Does anybody know what Rogers is paying for the arena? I though GM's initial deal was $2m/year. A bargain in retrospect..

[Zassk]

Does anybody know what Rogers is paying for the arena? I though GM's initial deal was $2m/year. A bargain in retrospect..

It seems that specific financial terms have not been released, but the following article implies that Rogers is paying $5 million/year for the naming rights to Rogers Arena (plus another $2m/year to be the exclusive telecom provider of the Canucks, for a total of $7m/year).

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+naming+deal+with+Telus+best+around/6316288/story.html

[Prometheus]

That was an interesting article. Apparently, Rogers pays $1.77 million per year for naming rights for Rogers Centre, which houses the CFL's Toronto Argonauts and MLB's Toronto Blue Jays, a "Big Four" franchise, for a combined total of 90 home appearances, in addition to numerous other major events held at the stadium every year, in one of North America's largest markets.

Here is some more from the article:


BC Place naming deal with Telus was one of best around

Province’s rejection of stadium pact has astonished marketing experts across Canada

By Tom Mayenknecht, Special to The Vancouver Sun, March 16, 2012

When news began to travel in the spring of 2011 that Pavco asked for and received in the order of $2 million per year for the BC Place naming rights, most marketing brokers and agents were impressed by that threshold, especially for a venue that does not house a “Big Four” franchise from the NFL, Major League Baseball, NBA and NHL...

It's important to note that stadium naming rights are built on three major metrics. First is market size and reach, the second is the quantitative value of stadium event dates and capacity and the third is the subjective, qualitative value of those dates and tenants.

There are a number of softer factors, ranging from location (downtown vs. suburban), surrounding infrastructure (passing highway traffic and access to public transportation) and even time zone (with a definite skew towards higher naming rights deals on the eastern side of the continent).

The fact is the Telus Park proposal — combining about $1.75 million in naming rights with at least $500,000 in telecom services and amenities on an annual basis — would have ranked it fourth among all Canadian stadium and arena naming rights deals, behind only Rogers Arena, Bell Centre in Montreal and BMO Field in Toronto...

Even pro-rated against the Rogers Arena deal, the rejected Telus Park deal holds its weight well; with one building averaging more than 50 major sports events per year, all on television and all sold out to capacity, plus an aggressive schedule of concerts, while BC Place is home to 27 CFL and MLS dates each year or about 30 if both teams make the post-season. The Canucks alone last season staged 61 televised home dates at Rogers Arena.

However you cut it, in pure naming rights terms, the Telus Park proposal ranked favourably not only across Canada but throughout North America. Among corporate naming of more than 160 sport venues in North America, it ranks near the top third in absolute dollars and among the top 20 per cent per capita.

Moreover, among venues without at least one “Big Four” tenant, only the Home Depot Center in Los Angeles ($7 million per year), Sprint Center in Kansas City ($2.5 million) and BMO Field in Toronto ($2.37 million) have pulled in more for corporate naming rights. When adjusted to market size, the BC Place deal would have been 11th in North America.

Outside of the Home Depot Center (home to both the LA Galaxy and Chavez USA of MLS), MLS-specific stadium naming rights average $1.5 million per year. PPL Park in Philadelphia, a television market of 6.2 million people, hauls in $2 million per year — just behind BMO Field — while Rio Tinto Stadium (Real Salt Lake), Dick’s Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids), Jen-Weld Field (Portland Timbers) and Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas) all hover around the league average.

Red Bull Arena in Harrison, N.J. in the New York television market received an upfront financing sum of $30 million. That averages $1.2 million per year over the projected 25-year lifespan of the facility.

In the CFL, the Toronto Argonauts play at Rogers Centre alongside the Toronto Blue Jays of Major League Baseball. Internal chargebacks by stadium owner and operator Rogers Communications peg the naming rights there at $1.77 million per year.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+naming+deal+with+Telus+best+around/6316288/story.html#ixzz1qGTaAq36

[logan5]

Does anybody know what Rogers is paying for the arena? I though GM's initial deal was $2m/year. A bargain in retrospect..


This list is more up to date. It shows Safeco in Seattle at 40 million for 20 years and a lot of much higher profile stadiums in the same ball park as, and even less than what Telus was offering (dollar wise).

http://www.sportsvenues.com/pdf/names.pdf

[cornholio]

A Quebec NHL team's market would in no way be limited to just the local metro area. It would have many fans all across the province, just like the former Nordiques had. Except for the immediate vicinity of Montreal, polls in the old Nords days showed the team had close to one-third fan support pretty much anywhere in Quebec, even in far-flung areas far away from Quebec City like Abitibi...

They won't say it officially but if the Nordiques come back they and the Habs will share the province of Quebec as a market like the New York Giants and New York Jets share their market, with each team having more concentrated support in certain areas of course.

Well now I feel stupid. I dont know why I thought it was a forestry company :shrug: Makes more sense now.

[NewfBC]

That was an interesting article. Apparently, Rogers pays $1.77 million per year for naming rights for Rogers Centre, which houses the CFL's Toronto Argonauts and MLB's Toronto Blue Jays, a "Big Four" franchise, for a combined total of 90 home appearances, in addition to numerous other major events held at the stadium every year, in one of North America's largest markets.

Here is some more from the article:

Rogers owns Rogers Centre. They're basically paying themselves. :)

Ron.

[Acajack]

Well now I feel stupid. I dont know why I thought it was a forestry company :shrug: Makes more sense now.

Maybe because Quebecor sounds a bit like Canfor?

[Phil McAvity]

"Telus was so confident of landing a deal to rename B.C. Place that it twice invited — and then twice uninvited — Hollywood music legend David Foster to attend the christening ceremony for the refurbished stadium."

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Telus+jumped+through+hoops+Place+still+jerked+around/6305491/story.html#ixzz1qmah6ET9

It's too bad Foster didn't cough up $35 million of his own money for the naming rights to end all the squabbling over this and besides, i'm sure people would be happier with "David Foster Park" anyway.

[abc1]

The field sure looked rough on TV last night for the SKC match? I guess that the damage was caused by the recent Autoshow and the mechanism designed to protect the field?