BC Place: Stadium Refurbishment | Completed [Archive] - Page 49

TwoFace

Apr 20, 2012, 2:39 AM

Just more evidence that BC Place is a multi-purpose facility, and football (of both the egg-shaped and round types) is not a priority. Yes, the 'Caps and Lions are major tenants but the government knows where it's bread is buttered. Or to put it another way. Let's assume two scenarios:

1) The 'Caps and Leos don't eixst, but all of the other shows/concerts/etc are still around.

2) 'Caps and Lions exist, but none of the other shows/concerts/etc., do.

In scenario 2, the stadium would not be refurbished, whereas in scenario 1 it would be.

Not too much bread & butter on this year's schedule. They would be sucking wind without the 2 sports franchises.

http://www.bcplacestadium.com/index.php/calendar?month=jun&year=2012

quobobo

Apr 24, 2012, 2:41 AM

Photo I took on the weekend from the OV:

http://i.imgur.com/XgxBgl.jpg (http://imgur.com/XgxBg)

The lights dominate the view of the city in a really bad way from parts of Mount Pleasant/Fairview but I don't mind them from the Olympic Village.

dtrain

Apr 25, 2012, 7:01 PM

Just more evidence that BC Place is a multi-purpose facility, and football (of both the egg-shaped and round types) is not a priority. Yes, the 'Caps and Lions are major tenants but the government knows where it's bread is buttered. Or to put it another way. Let's assume two scenarios:

1) The 'Caps and Leos don't eixst, but all of the other shows/concerts/etc are still around.

2) 'Caps and Lions exist, but none of the other shows/concerts/etc., do.

In scenario 2, the stadium would not be refurbished, whereas in scenario 1 it would be.

The retractable roof only happened because of the sports franchises.
No way that feature would have been added if just for trade shows, etc.

officedweller

May 23, 2012, 12:16 AM

Not sure where this goes, but Edgewater hopes to annouce the new location by August 1st:

http://www.vancourier.com/news/Vancouver+Edgewater+casino+edging+relocation/6646927/story.html

Hed Kandi

May 23, 2012, 1:00 AM

Not sure where this goes, but Edgewater hopes to annouce the new location by August 1st:

http://www.vancourier.com/news/Vancouver+Edgewater+casino+edging+relocation/6646927/story.html

And with it I hope comes a redesign.

vanlaw

May 27, 2012, 5:29 PM

djh

May 27, 2012, 6:28 PM

The sound at the Roger Waters show last night at BC Place was amazing. I'm sure a lot of that is due to the money pumped into his set, equipment etc but from where I was on the floor everything was crystal clear with no echo. I really don't think I've heard sound that good at an arena or stadium show before. I'm hoping this is an indication that the crappy sound days are gone if part of the good sound is due to the new roof and acoustic changes they made.

Ooh, is *that* what the sound was?
I was walking around Cambie Village last evening and heard what I thought was a house party a block or two away. But with amazing bass rumble.

Made sense that it was coming from, I dunno, 30 blocks down the hill...

touraccuracy

May 27, 2012, 10:07 PM

Ooh, is *that* what the sound was?
I was walking around Cambie Village last evening and heard what I thought was a house party a block or two away. But with amazing bass rumble.

Made sense that it was coming from, I dunno, 30 blocks down the hill...

YES. I was walking around Ontario and 12th down to the Cambie Bridge last night and I kept hearing Pink Floyd... I thought it was coming from a house party but it seemed to be coming over the water and bouncing off of all the buildings on Fairview slope then coming back down the hill. It sounded like music was coming from everywhere...

WarrenC12

Aug 15, 2012, 7:50 PM

David Podmore doesn't get enough respect IMO.

Article:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Podmore+resigns+PavCo+prepares+shift+gears+from+construction/7090898/story.html

Of note to this thread, first time I've seen this mentioned:

The change in direction comes after the provincially owned PavCo finished its BC Place renovation program at roughly $514 million, $49 million under the original $563 million budget.

Try not to read the comments if you don't want your head to explode. Typical morons.

huenthar

Aug 15, 2012, 10:05 PM

David Podmore doesn't get enough respect IMO.

Article:

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Podmore+resigns+PavCo+prepares+shift+gears+from+construction/7090898/story.html

It says that PavCo is done with all its construction projects... I thought there was a marina still to be built on the eastern pier at the new Convention Centre? Or is that someone else's jurisdiction?

go_leafs_go02

Aug 15, 2012, 11:23 PM

Discovery Channel is showing on Friday: Megaroof - Rebuilding BC Place at 4 PM and 8 PM local.

officedweller

Aug 16, 2012, 1:22 AM

Nice - thanks for the heads up.

Canadian Skin

Aug 21, 2012, 10:13 PM

Discovery Channel is showing on Friday: Megaroof - Rebuilding BC Place at 4 PM and 8 PM local.

Here is a link to the full program on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/lg2B3M4mv_k

"Get a behind-the-scenes look at the BC Place project that is transforming Vancouver's skyline; it is a $500-million renovation that includes beautiful lights and untouchable materials."

hollywoodnorth

Oct 17, 2012, 8:12 AM

in news that is related to BC Place ....

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4593161/Poland-v-England-Match-postponed-due-to-rain.html

Drips
Polish roof blunder means England must play today

they left the roof open .... it started to rain and they couldn't close it! ... lulz :)

officedweller

Nov 23, 2012, 3:03 AM

Latest on the casino:

http://www.vancourier.com/life/Casino+still+eyed+west+Place/7596433/story.html

officedweller

Nov 26, 2012, 2:03 AM

From the Sun - decked out with the Union Jack for the Paul McCartney concert:

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/7597601.bin?size=620x400s
http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/Photos+Union+Jack+glows+Place+McCartney/7597584/story.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt_J_cJedHU

http://www.vancouversun.com/Video+Vancouver+spectacular+northern+lights+display+Place/7603396/story.html

BodomReaper

Nov 26, 2012, 5:39 AM

Aha - I saw that as I was waiting for the SkyTrain at VCC Clark, and was wondering what was going on. Thanks!

Klazu

Nov 26, 2012, 5:41 AM

They had the special lighting on for almost the whole week. It looked nice since the colors were constantly moving. :tup:

WarrenC12

Nov 26, 2012, 1:52 PM

I could hear the show last night from my apartment. The fact that I could make out the songs being played leads me to believe the sound quality is a lot better in the new BC Place. Sounded like more than a few old Beatles songs, would have been a great show.

Zassk

Nov 26, 2012, 6:33 PM

I was at the Roger Waters concert in May, and I agree that the acoustics are much better in the new stadium. However, I think that concert sound technology has had a revolution in recent years, and that concerts today sound far clearer than they did 15+ years ago. The Madonna concert in the old BC Place a few years ago sounded a million times better than the U2 concert that I saw in the early 90's. At the U2 Zoo TV concert, my friends on the upper deck could not figure out which song was which. It was all a muddied echoey mess. That is how bad the sound was in those days.

SFUVancouver

Nov 26, 2012, 6:37 PM

I saw U2 a few years back at pre-reno BC Place and even then the sound was great and easily on par with GM Place concerts I've attended. In fairness, I was close to the stage and it was circular with speakers facing out in every direction.

David

Nov 26, 2012, 11:32 PM

I was at the Paul concert and I can attest that it sounded great, possibly even better than the most recent Rogers Arena concert I'd been to. There was also a bunch of pyrotechnics let off during Live and Let Die that were bouncing off the roof above the stage :D

Canadian Mind

Nov 27, 2012, 1:26 AM

whatnext

Dec 5, 2012, 8:24 PM

Apparently Sir Paul's pyrotechnics damages BC Place's sound dampening panels. Wonder who's on the hook for that?

http://www.vancouversun.com/entertainment/Paul+McCartney+show+left+scorch+marks+Place/7651845/story.html

SFUVancouver

Dec 5, 2012, 8:31 PM

mr.x

Dec 5, 2012, 8:54 PM

Story is overblown.

In cases like this, the show's insurance is always required to cover damages like this. For fireworks, there's also a separate type of insurance that the event organizers must buy. So, insurance for the event they're organizing (worth several million in damages) and a separate insurance for fireworks (also worth several mill). In any case, according to event contracts, the event organizer is responsible for damages.

SpongeG

Dec 6, 2012, 7:15 AM

evil bastard paul mccartney

Citylights

Dec 6, 2012, 7:42 AM

mr.x

Dec 6, 2012, 8:22 AM

Does anyone know if they have plans to cover the large concrete outside walls with something?

It seems like they should have done this kind of cladding all the way around (the material used behind the plaza screen)
http://vancouvernotvegas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/381542_132234006887339_100003022216270_155415_616273104_n.jpeg
Source: http://vancouvernotvegas.ca/

They had exterior padding/cladding to cover the old concrete in the very first renderings, so there was an intention to do it for the whole exterior...best guess, they ran out of money.

ckkelley

Dec 6, 2012, 8:25 PM

http://vancouvernotvegas.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/381542_132234006887339_100003022216270_155415_616273104_n.jpeg

You just cant beat that wonderful taste of Dr. Pepper!

Smooth

Dec 6, 2012, 9:09 PM

Wasn't that the part of the stadium that they originally intended to have the stadium name fixed to?

http://citycaucus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/telus-park.jpg
http://citycaucus.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/telus-park.jpg

mr.x

Dec 6, 2012, 9:16 PM

Here's a rendering from the second page of this topic, when they were hoping to finish it in time for the Olympics.....if only:

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4531/32371319cz0.jpg

wrenegade

Dec 7, 2012, 12:21 AM

I almost forgot how much I hated our Olympic logo. It would have been great to have it done before 2010 though.

johnjimbc

Dec 7, 2012, 2:12 AM

I almost forgot how much I hated our Olympic logo. It would have been great to have it done before 2010 though.

You hated the logo?

I loved it. Still do. I still think the whole look of the games developed for Vancouver 2010 is one of the best, and most memorable in my lifetime. I loved how even the colours told a story about the region.

I liked a lot about the London games but the random pastel of colors made no sense to me.

mr.x

Dec 7, 2012, 2:17 AM

You hated the logo?

I loved it. Still do. I still think the whole look of the games developed for Vancouver 2010 is one of the best, and most memorable in my lifetime. I loved how even the colours told a story about the region.

I liked a lot about the London games but the random pastel of colors made no sense to me.

Agreed.

Although, I thought the whole multi-coloured inukshuk AND multi-coloured Olympic rings on the Vancouver 2010 logo was a bit much. The logo was at its very finest when it was one solid colour or silhouette. See below:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=vancouver+2010+wallpaper&sugexp=chrome,mod%3D8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&authuser=0&ei=X1HBUPeMFMLCigLVn4HQBA&biw=1280&bih=594&sei=YVHBUNg0qN-IAoXpgPAG

wrenegade

Dec 7, 2012, 3:00 AM

I hate inukshuks period. I hate the one in English Bay too. I digress though.

officedweller

Jan 26, 2013, 2:06 AM

Renewed negotiations re: naming rights:

From the G&M:

The B.C. government has renewed negotiations with Telus over the controversial, and much coveted, naming rights to B.C. Place Stadium, The Globe and Mail has learned.

...

When the government announced last March that it was backing away from the pending arrangement with Telus, it said it was because the proposed package was not a good deal for taxpayers. In addition, the government suggested that B.C. Place had become an iconic name to which most people in the province had become attached.

However, it was believed at the time that some intense, behind-the-scenes lobbying by the Whitecaps also had something to do with the decision.

...

It seems likely that to make the Telus deal work this time around, the government is going to have to placate the Whitecaps in some way. It could mean reopening the deal it struck with the team, which offered the franchise little if anything in the way of game-day revenue from sources in and outside the stadium. A new arrangement that granted the Whitecaps more lucrative terms might be enough to quell the discontent in the organization that a naming rights deal with Telus is sure to cause.

The team has two more years in its sponsorship deal with Bell. It may make sense for Telus to take over that role when the contract ends.

..

Any new deal is sure to anger Bell, Rogers and Shaw Communications, all of whom were already furious with the government over its decision in 2011 to award a $1-billion, 10-year telecommunications contract with Telus.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/clarks-chief-of-staff-sparks-new-talks-with-telus-on-bc-place-naming-rights/article7742884/

Joat

Mar 8, 2013, 5:45 AM

Here's an article about the failed casino pitches in Vancouver and Surrey. Nothing new really.

From The Globe and Mail:

How Vancouver and Surrey lost high-profile casino bids in the past two years

FRANCES BULA

VANCOUVER — The Globe and Mail

Published Sunday, Mar. 03 2013, 11:42 PM EST

Last updated Monday, Mar. 04 2013, 6:27 PM EST

Part of The Big Gamble, a series examining British Columbia’s complicated relationship with casinos.

Vancouver

The news that Vancouver’s casino would move and expand to something bigger crept in on little cat feet. In May, 2008, when then-premier Gordon Campbell announced he had negotiated a new site for the Vancouver Art Gallery on False Creek, plans for the area showed the existing Edgewater Casino moving to a spot beside BC Place, but not many noticed that.
More Related to this Story

Nor did many notice when the city, then led by mayor Sam Sullivan, held hearings that September to rezone the land near BC Place to allow casino use. Even when Mr. Campbell went on to announce in March, 2010, that an entertainment complex would be built, with a casino triple the size of the old Edgewater, the public still yawned.

The Vision Vancouver council wasn’t enthusiastic about Paragon’s proposed expanded casino, which appeared to be part of a complex deal organized much earlier to find money to help pay for BC Place renovations, but they felt obligated to go along. Minister Rich Coleman was pressing them, the union representing casino workers was lobbying hard and there was little opposition.

Then, in the fall of 2010, a Vancouver Not Vegas group sprang to life. It lined up prominent figures, from politicians to an ex-judge, to oppose it. Thousands signed a petition. By April, 2011, the casino expansion was dead after Vision councillors voted to deny it.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/how-vancouver-and-surrey-lost-high-profile-casino-bids-in-the-past-two-years/article9255394/?cmpid=rss1

BTW, is there a separate casino/gambling thread?

WarrenC12

Mar 8, 2013, 4:10 PM

Here's an article about the failed casino pitches in Vancouver and Surrey. Nothing new really.

BTW, is there a separate casino/gambling thread?

Just shows the knee-jerk reaction of the NIMBYs around here. Clearly all levels of government (and all sides of the political spectrum) were telegraphing these moves years in advance. Then after all of the planning is complete and it's time for action, they get freak-out central from Sandy and her friends, and everything collapses. Now we're left with the mess and lack of revenue around our nice new stadium.

People love to whine about politicians, but stuff like this is a reason I could never be one.

PeterAKer

Mar 9, 2013, 12:07 PM

s211

Mar 9, 2013, 6:58 PM

I don't think the Naming deal will happen as Spencer Herbert MLA on behalf of the NDP said they are against the renaming of BC Place.

It's a conflict of interest as Bell is Whitecaps Sponsor and TELUS is the Lions Sponsor and would cause Advertising problems.

I'm for keeping the BC Place name.

Fine, then perhaps you'll subsidize the rest of us to make up for the millions in lost tax revenue.

Jebby

Mar 9, 2013, 7:41 PM

I don't think the Naming deal will happen as Spencer Herbert MLA on behalf of the NDP said they are against the renaming of BC Place.

It's a conflict of interest as Bell is Whitecaps Sponsor and TELUS is the Lions Sponsor and would cause Advertising problems.

I'm for keeping the BC Place name.

There is no conflict of interest. Whitecaps are privately owned, Lions are privately owned. Neither owns the stadium. A government agency owns the stadium and has a responsibility to taxpayers who just put in $500+ million into it to make as much of that money back.

spm2013

Mar 9, 2013, 8:09 PM

There is no conflict of interest. Whitecaps are privately owned, Lions are privately owned. Neither owns the stadium. A government agency owns the stadium and has a responsibility to taxpayers who just put in $500+ million into it to make as much of that money back.

Agreed, if the Whitecaps were stupid not to have something in contract then who cares. Let them build their own stadium and they can name it whatever they want.

PeterAKer

Mar 10, 2013, 1:35 AM

dreambrother808

Mar 10, 2013, 1:43 AM

It's a stadium and in no way mentally connects for me with the concept of heritage. Sell the naming rights, make some money. The province is not in a financial situation to be turning away relatively harmless sources of funding like this.

spm2013

Mar 10, 2013, 3:46 AM

Stephen Harper Stadium!

hollywoodnorth

Mar 10, 2013, 5:49 AM

I still think BUDWEISER is a perfect fit ...

the BC 'Bud' Bowl

simple .... effective .... awesome!

Jebby

Mar 10, 2013, 1:53 PM

I'm against Government Crown Corporations (Owned by the People) selling Naming rights to any Private Corporations. I'm okay for naming buildings after important BC people and if they chose to rename BC Place after Terry Fox I'd be okay for it.

If BC Place was Privately owned then they should be able to sell naming rights like GM Place/Rogers Arena. BC Place was built by the Government and still owned by the Government and should stay BC Place.

Olympic Stadium is still owned by the Government of Quebec.

Commonwealth Stadium is still owned by the City of Edmonton.

Stadiums shouldn't be owned by the government in the first place. The government shouldn't be in the business of subsidizing privately owned sports teams (or any business for that matter).

Since BC Place is taxpayer owned and they just put in $500+ million of taxpayer dollars into renovating it, they have a moral obligation to their "investors" (in quotation marks because investing is a voluntary action, in this case it was not) to recoup as much of that money as possible. BC is supposed to run for profit, and rightfully so, even though as a government-owned corporation there is no real profit motive (they have no real shareholders demanding a return on their investment and in worst case they'd just get bailed out by the province, ie: the taxpayer)

This is like saying "I don't want ads on SkyTrain or the bus because it's publicly owned"

I'm a Traditionalist and I'm sad to see our heritage being sold out to Private Corporations.

Heritage? What are you talking about? This is a 30 year old sports stadium, which is essentially a new building now. I can understand not wanting to sell naming rights to the Legislature Building or the the VPL, but a sports stadium is completely different.

If you're willing to make a donation to the province for the amount of lost income from not selling the naming rights, go right ahead, but don't force the rest of BC taxpayer to fund that lost income with their hard earned money.

officedweller

Mar 11, 2013, 8:41 PM

The reason that stadiums and concvention centres, etc. are largely built by the government is for the economic spinoffs. BC Place was built as part of the revitalization of the False Creek lands (before Expo and well before any residents moved in). It brought the Whitecaps and Lions in from East Vancouver and boosted downtown. Imagine if BC Place had not been built and a replacement had been privately built on cheaper land in Surrey (i.e. Scott Road area).

I think it would be a competely different question nowadays if you proposed to build a purpose-specific stadium out in the suburbs with limited economic spin-offs (some US stadiums may, if fact, end up out in the suburbs on cheap land surrounded by parking lots because that's the most cost-effective means for a private enterprise).

Hockey Arenas may be a bit different because they probably generate more revenue than football and soccer would (in Canada) so they may be more financially viable privately.

Jebby

Mar 11, 2013, 9:59 PM

Hockey Arenas may be a bit different because they probably generate more revenue than football and soccer would (in Canada) so they may be more financially viable privately.

Pretty much every major sports arena in Canada has been privately built. Rogers Arena, Air Canada Center, MTS Center, Bell Center. The Saddledome is a notable exception, but it was build 30 years ago.

officedweller

Mar 21, 2013, 10:26 PM

Just announced:

BC Place to host 2015 FIFA Women's World Cup final

Semifinals will be held in Montreal, Edmonton

By Monte Stewart, The Canadian Press
March 21, 2013 1:56 PM

VANCOUVER — BC Place Stadium will host the first-ever World Cup soccer final on artificial turf in 2015.

The Vancouver venue was named Thursday as the site for the 2015 Women's World Cup championship game. All other senior women's and men's finals have been played on grass, say organizers.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/soccer/Vancouver+Place+host+2015+FIFA+Women+World+final/8132368/story.html

Jebby

Mar 21, 2013, 11:47 PM

I'm still not going to watch.

Vancity

Mar 22, 2013, 7:12 AM

I'm still not going to watch.

why not?

Jebby

Mar 22, 2013, 7:13 AM

why not?

Soccer is boring enough, now make it women's soccer and slitting my wrists sounds like more fun.

Crows

Mar 22, 2013, 7:18 AM

Soccer is boring enough, now make it women's soccer and slitting my wrists sounds like more fun.

I'l be watching.:D

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me2lnsT6yk1r4l1wyo1_500.jpg

BCPhil

Mar 22, 2013, 7:19 AM

I wonder if they will put down a real grass field. The artificial one is already starting to look a little ratty (at least on TV)

osirisboy

Mar 22, 2013, 3:47 PM

I'l be watching.:D

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me2lnsT6yk1r4l1wyo1_500.jpg

Lol yea because that's really what you see when they are playing

jlousa

Mar 22, 2013, 3:51 PM

No it's been announced as the first world cup final on turf. There is a push to move to turf. We'll see some players complain but I think we'll see more and more turf games as time progresses. I know I prefer modern turf over almost any grass field.

Prometheus

Mar 22, 2013, 6:08 PM

I'm not so certain that they won't change their minds and lay down some temporary grass for the tournament. The turf in BC Place is inferior to grass and doesn't look very good. Right from the begining, the turf wasn't of a very nice colour (it's more brownish green than bright grass green) and it has been made even worse by the reddish stains left by the painted field advertising used by the BC Lions (and all the other trauma it receives from the other events held at BC Place, despite the protective covering used in such cases).

This is the World Cup and it will be watched by tens of millions from around the wold. I think the organizers will think twice about not pulling out all the stops to make sure things feel and look their best. If it is feasible to lay down some temporary grass, I am willing to bet that they will do so.

officedweller

Mar 22, 2013, 6:18 PM

Read the excerpt above...
And the article says that it's a concern for the men, but not the women.
I guess men stomp harder?

Prometheus

Mar 22, 2013, 6:23 PM

I think we all did read it.

As I said, I am not totally convinced that they won't change their minds, if it is feasible to do so, primarily for the aesthetics.

It is likely that the Whitecaps will host a friendly against a prestigious EPL team before then, which will tell us whether grass is feasible and significantly more attractive. If it is, I wouldn't be suprised if World Cup orgainizers reverse themselves for 2015.

officedweller

Apr 24, 2013, 8:29 PM

http://www.news1130.com/2013/04/24/ndp-would-consider-privatizing-bc-place/

NDP would consider privatizing BC PlaceNDP would create an expert panel to look at the possibility
Jason Howe and The Canadian Press
April 24, 2013 9:28 am

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) – The leader of the NDP says they would consider selling BC Place if elected next month.

Adrian Dix made the announcement while overlooking BC Place.

He says they would set up a panel to review the BC Pavilion Corporation, which operates BC Place and the Vancouver Convention Centre.

Dix says the review would include the possible sale of the stadium. “If the private sector can do a better job running BC Place while freeing taxpayers of millions of dollars in losses and reducing public debt, we’ve got a win-win.”

“BC Place and the Trade and Convention Centre are symbols of the misplaced priorities of the BC Liberals,” says Dix. “Massive cost overruns on construction and renovations, along with a bungled naming rights deal, have saddled taxpayers with a mountain of debt.”

The panel would be asked to report back in three months after being put together. It would be made up of people from the private sector and community leaders.

Dix says PavCo has accumulated $1.2-billion in debt, most of that during renovations to the BC Place roof. He predicts it will have operational losses of nearly $60 million over the next three years.

He says an NDP government would rather spend that cash on hospitals or social programs.

Liberal leader Christy Clark is dismissing the NDP proposal as nothing more than a gimmick.

She says no viable buyer has ever been identified. “If the government had considered it a surplus asset and there had been a buyer that was willing to pay for it, it might have been something the government might have considered over the last 12 years.”

Clark is also attacking Dix for dismissing a plan to double the Kinder Morgan oil pipeline to Burnaby before a formal proposal is even put forward, saying that kind of attitude scares away jobs.

jlousa

Apr 24, 2013, 9:44 PM

queetz@home

Apr 24, 2013, 10:00 PM

As much as I don't like government getting into businesses they don't belong in, the fact is this cost us a ton of money and we won't be able to recoop those costs by selling it, and we will lose long term control of the stadium. Think it's a bad move at this point. It almost reeks of tit for tat for the fast ferry offloading.

Well I do agree that the roof was totally an example of misplaced priorities by the BC Liberals, and the fact that they did it anyway but cried poverty on things such as transit funding, or the usual social programs, it simply doesn't resonate well with people. So its no surprise that they will likely loose the election even though for me, they are still a lesser of two evils.

But yeah...it looks like its payback time for how the BC Liberals ditched the fast ferries on such a low price, seemingly on purposes, just to spite the BC NDP. And at the end of the day, only us taxpayers will loose at the end....sad. :rolleyes:

spm2013

Apr 25, 2013, 12:56 AM

Just a way to get their press op on the news. Nothing will happen since there are no buyers, unless they give it for $1 to the Lions and Whitecaps.

Stingray2004

Apr 25, 2013, 1:02 AM

Rogers bought Toronto's superior Skydome for $25 million. It even has the Toronto Blue Jays as a tenant.

http://www.tsn.ca/story/print/?id=106352

Looks like non-scientific online polls are massively against this move. Ditto for
the convention centre.

BC CTV News:

Do you think selling BC Place is a good idea?

Yes 239 (24 %)

No 745 (76 %)

Total number of votes: 984

http://bc.ctvnews.ca/

Global BC News:

DO YOU AGREE WITH DIX'S PLAN TO SELL BC PLACE TO HELP REPAY PAVCO DEBT?

Yes 12.96% (147 votes)

No 87.04% (987 votes)

http://globalnews.ca/news/507405/dix-says-he-would-consider-selling-bc-place-to-repay-pavcos-debt/

TwoFace

Apr 25, 2013, 1:38 AM

theKB

Apr 25, 2013, 1:44 AM

The only way someone would buy BC Place would be, if it had this subject to clause attached to any offer made ...
"Subject to the buyer(s) being able to secure an NFL team within 3 years of acceptance of this offer"

and it would be a snowy day in hell before we got an NFL team let alone an NFL team before Toronto.

No Canadian city has the population to support an NFL team aside from maybe Toronto.

TwoFace

Apr 25, 2013, 1:50 AM

and it would be a snowy day in hell before we got an NFL team let alone an NFL team before Toronto.

No Canadian city has the population to support an NFL team aside from maybe Toronto.

My thought exactly, and even TO had problems selling out the Bill's games last year ... conclusion ... no sale.

spm2013

Apr 25, 2013, 2:32 AM

Selling BC Place doesn't have any traction compared to the media circus around the Fast Ferries. It's just a distraction for the NDP especially since most people don't see the benefits of selling it.

logan5

Apr 25, 2013, 3:03 AM

Wouldn't selling the stadium be like trying to trade Luongo?

No Canadian city has the population to support an NFL team aside from maybe Toronto.

Of all the team sports, the NFL would be the easiest for a small market to support. There are a handful of NFL cities that are smaller than Vancouver, so I think we could easily support a team. The stadium on the other hand is a little small for NFL standards.

Vancity

Apr 25, 2013, 4:51 AM

Wouldn't selling the stadium be like trying to trade Luongo?

Of all the team sports, the NFL would be the easiest for a small market to support. There are a handful of NFL cities that are smaller than Vancouver, so I think we could easily support a team. The stadium on the other hand is a little small for NFL standards.

I guess it's time to blow it up, and build a new stadium! LOL

BIMBAM

Apr 25, 2013, 5:12 PM

Wouldn't selling the stadium be like trying to trade Luongo?

Of all the team sports, the NFL would be the easiest for a small market to support. There are a handful of NFL cities that are smaller than Vancouver, so I think we could easily support a team. The stadium on the other hand is a little small for NFL standards.

But those cities aren't competing with a CFL team. Why would we want to sacrifice the BC Lions and flip off the rest of the country just to play in the American league?

spm2013

Apr 25, 2013, 5:15 PM

But those cities aren't competing with a CFL team. Why would we want to sacrifice the BC Lions and flip off the rest of the country just to play in the American league?

Like anyone would care.

TwoFace

Apr 25, 2013, 5:38 PM

But those cities aren't competing with a CFL team. Why would we want to sacrifice the BC Lions and flip off the rest of the country just to play in the American league?

IF the Stadium was sold to a private entity, the NFL is about the only thing that could make financial sense to a potential buyer.
Just as an example the 2012 Grey Cup had a viewership of 5.8 Million and the Super Ball 166 Million.

It doesn't take a math whiz to see the advertising $$$ potential from one league to the next.
As much as I enjoy watching the Lions play Calgary over and over, I would prefer seeing the Lions (?) play the Cowboys or the Giants.

The Lions owner also owns the Argonauts, so he would be the guy that dictates the fate of the CFL, my interpretation is that he likes being a BIG fish in a small pond as opposed of being a SMALL fish in a large pond, so things should remain as is.

Prometheus

Apr 25, 2013, 8:39 PM

IF the Stadium was sold to a private entity, the NFL is about the only thing that could make financial sense to a potential buyer.

Just as an example the 2012 Grey Cup had a viewership of 5.8 Million and the Super Ball 166 Million. It doesn't take a math whiz to see the advertising $$$ potential from one league to the next.

I love when people start talking about the NFL vs. the CFL.

In Canada, the Super Bowl was actually watched by 6.4 million English Canadians (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/ctv-cuts-out-on-super-bowl-presentation/).

That's an impressive number but hardly surprising given the unparalleled media hype, international star power and Hollywood-like promotion and production that the world-famous Super Bowl enjoys. Moreover, the Super Bowl was broadcast nationally on CTV, which is received for free on every single television set across Canada.

How does the little old CFL, which is largely ignored or even actively marginalized by some influential Canadian media (i.e., Rogers), do in comparison? Despite its being broadcast exclusively on TSN, a specialty cable channel which must be subscribed to, the Grey Cup was watched by 5.5 million English Canadians (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=410346). That's an extremely close second to what must be the biggest, most hyped, most famous annual event on earth.

And how does the CFL compare to the NFL, MLB and NBA on a weekly basis during the regular season?

The CFL is king. Here is a typical sample of the weekly television ratings for the CFL versus the NFL, MLB and NBA in 2012:

OCTOBER 19 - OCTOBER 25

CFL

HAM-CGY, Oct 20, TSN: 929, 000
EDM-BC, Oct 19, TSN: 729, 000
WPG-TOR, Oct 19, TSN: 688, 000
MTL-SSK, Oct 20, TSN: 720, 000

NFL

NYJ-NE, Oct 21, Citytv: 487, 000
PIT-CIN, Oct 21, TSN: 448, 000
DET-CHI,Oct 22, TSN: 560, 000

MLB (Playoffs)

SF-STL (g4), Oct 18, SN: 398, 000
SF-STL (g5), Oct 19, SN: 487, 000
STL-SF (g6), Oct 21, SN: 497, 000
STL-SF (g7), Oct 22, SN: 645, 000

All numbers are BBM Canada 2+

Source (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/canadian-sports-ratings-update-october-27/)

OCTOBER 26 - OCTOBER 31

CFL

TOR-SSK, Oct 27, TSN: 1.026 million
BC-CGY, Oct 26, TSN: 701, 000
WPG-HAM, Oct 28, TSN: 672, 000
EDM-MTL, Oct 28, TSN: 546, 000

NFL

NO-DEN, Oct 28, TSN: 339, 000
SF-ARZ, Oct 29, TSN: 396, 000

NBA (Season Opener)

IND-TOR, Oct 31, TSN: 346, 000

MLB (World Series)

DET-SF (g1), Oct 24, SN: 801, 000
DET-SF (g2), Oct 25, SN: 729, 000
SF-DET (g3), Oct 27, SN: 779, 000
SF-DET (g4), Oct 28, SN: 792, 000

All numbers are BBM Canada 2+

Source (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/canadian-sports-ratings-update-november-1/)

NOVEMBER 1 - NOVEMBER 6

CFL

HAM-TOR, Nov 1, TSN: 769, 000
CGY-EDM, Nov 2, TSN: 725, 000
MTL-WPG, Nov 2, TSN: 642, 000
SSK-BC, Nov 3, TSN: 828, 000

NFL

KC-SD, Nov 1, SN: 213, 000
DAL-ATL, Nov 4, TSN: 577, 000
PHI-NO, Nov 5, TSN: 580, 000

NBA

TOR-BRK, Nov 3 SN: 185, 000
TOR-OKC, Nov 6, TSN: 91, 000

All numbers BBM Canada 2+

Source (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/canadian-sports-ratings-update-november-9/)

djmk

Apr 25, 2013, 9:07 PM

The hilarious part is that the libs needed to sell surplus real estate to balance the books and the ndp freaked out. and their current radio commercials elude to not selling our assets. and now they want to sell bc place to balance the books.

hypocrisy at its finest

TwoFace

Apr 26, 2013, 12:13 AM

The CFL is king. Here is a typical sample of the weekly television ratings for the CFL versus the NFL, MLB and NBA in 2012:

The whole point of the getting an NFL team is not to compete for "Canadian" viewership but to get access to that HUGE American/Global market and the TV revenues that come with it.
That is what we are talking about, when making a sale of BC place viable to anyone.

BCPhil

Apr 26, 2013, 12:57 AM

So one day they say they want to block the sale of public assets to balance the books (unused assets like abandoned parking lots). Then the next day they propose selling off BC Place and the convention center, because they are losing money. Then later that day they propose to spend $10 million on an inquiry into the sale of BC Rail (back when it was losing money).

It just reeks of tit for tat politics that BC is based on. It reminds me of when the libs took power and not only sold the fast ferries and BC Rail, but also scrapped all the Millennium line expansion plans, and anything else to do with the NDP. Not because something might have been a bad policy, but just because it has their name on it.

It's petty and makes me worry about what will happen to some of our current/passed plans if we have a change of government. Will work halt on the Evergreen line? Will Broadway be forced to be LRT? Will they stop construction happening on Gateway and the SFPR? What other things have the liberals name on it that the NDP will throw out just because?

Prometheus

Apr 26, 2013, 1:02 AM

The whole point of the getting an NFL team is not to compete for "Canadian" viewership but to get access to that HUGE American/Global market and the TV revenues that come with it.

And what does the NFL get in return?

The whole point of the NFL moving into Canada would be to get access to a supposedly HUGE Canadian market while maintaining or expanding viewership in the U.S.. But the empirical data show that the Canadian market for regular season NFL football is very mediocre while American interest in watching Canadian franchises is virtually non-existent. Indeed, Canadian interest in watching Canadian franchises in the traditionally American major sports leagues (i.e., the NBA, MLB) is small, thus undermining the counter argument that Canadian interest in the NFL would significantly increase if a Canadian franchise were to enter the league. Despite existing in one of the largest television markets in North America, the Toronto Blue Jays and the Toronto Raptors cannot beat the ratings for curling, which exceed the ratings for NBA basketball many times over (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/canadian-sports-ratings-update-march-16-2013/). Even men's figure skating dominates the Toronto Raptors (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/canadian-sports-ratings-update-march-16-2013/).

queetz@home

Apr 26, 2013, 2:31 AM

It just reeks of tit for tat politics that BC is based on. It reminds me of when the libs took power and not only sold the fast ferries and BC Rail, but also scrapped all the Millennium line expansion plans, and anything else to do with the NDP. Not because something might have been a bad policy, but just because it has their name on it.

It's petty and makes me worry about what will happen to some of our current/passed plans if we have a change of government. Will work halt on the Evergreen line? Will Broadway be forced to be LRT? Will they stop construction happening on Gateway and the SFPR? What other things have the liberals name on it that the NDP will throw out just because?

I was somewhat worried about this too so I spent the last hour or so combing the BC NDP Election Platform with a fine tooth comb...

CAPITAL SPENDING COMMITMENTS
Capital investment is an essential component of building a prosperous BC with a high quality of life. An NDP government will use capital investments to keep BC moving, healthy and educated.

We will focus capital investments on real needs and priorities. An NDP government would not have sunk half a billion dollars into a new roof for BC Place. Instead, we will prudently invest in educational, health, transportation and community infrastructure that is truly needed across the province.

The current budget lays out a total of $18.3 billion over the fiscal plan in capital spending on schools, hospitals, roads, bridges, hydroelectric projects and other infrastructure across BC. An NDP government will continue with projects that are currently underway.

These are challenging fiscal times, and we will not be making capital commitments beyond what is available in the current capital plan.

So it looks like for Evergreen Line, Gateway and SFPR, since they are already underway, they *should* be fine.

Its a hit and miss for Broadway, Surrey Rapid Transit and other transit related things that have yet to get off the ground.

While they did say they will not commit anything new, they are allocated a portion of the carbon tax for transit, so there *should* be some improvement on the viability of those projects in one form or the other.

BUT presumably for the rapid transit lines, they do need some kind of Provincial capital contribution, so here is where the uncertainty lies....

TwoFace

Apr 26, 2013, 2:43 AM

And what does the NFL get in return?

Your starting to slowly come around.

The answer to your question is NOTHING. The NFL gets nothing for their money, hence there has never been any appetite to expand north of the border.
The only benefit for anyone in buying BC Place is to get an NFL team to move up to Canada, so the owner can prosper from the NFL's multi Billion dollar TV contract which is divided among the teams.
And once again ... this is not likely to happen.

logan5

Apr 26, 2013, 3:04 AM

The CFL is king. Here is a typical sample of the weekly television ratings for the CFL versus the NFL, MLB and NBA in 2012:

OCTOBER 19 - OCTOBER 25

CFL

HAM-CGY, Oct 20, TSN: 929, 000
EDM-BC, Oct 19, TSN: 729, 000
WPG-TOR, Oct 19, TSN: 688, 000
MTL-SSK, Oct 20, TSN: 720, 000

NFL

NYJ-NE, Oct 21, Citytv: 487, 000
PIT-CIN, Oct 21, TSN: 448, 000
DET-CHI,Oct 22, TSN: 560, 000

MLB (Playoffs)

SF-STL (g4), Oct 18, SN: 398, 000
SF-STL (g5), Oct 19, SN: 487, 000
STL-SF (g6), Oct 21, SN: 497, 000
STL-SF (g7), Oct 22, SN: 645, 000

All numbers are BBM Canada 2+

Source

OCTOBER 26 - OCTOBER 31

CFL

TOR-SSK, Oct 27, TSN: 1.026 million
BC-CGY, Oct 26, TSN: 701, 000
WPG-HAM, Oct 28, TSN: 672, 000
EDM-MTL, Oct 28, TSN: 546, 000

NFL

NO-DEN, Oct 28, TSN: 339, 000
SF-ARZ, Oct 29, TSN: 396, 000

NBA (Season Opener)

IND-TOR, Oct 31, TSN: 346, 000

MLB (World Series)

DET-SF (g1), Oct 24, SN: 801, 000
DET-SF (g2), Oct 25, SN: 729, 000
SF-DET (g3), Oct 27, SN: 779, 000
SF-DET (g4), Oct 28, SN: 792, 000

All numbers are BBM Canada 2+

Source

NOVEMBER 1 - NOVEMBER 6

CFL

HAM-TOR, Nov 1, TSN: 769, 000
CGY-EDM, Nov 2, TSN: 725, 000
MTL-WPG, Nov 2, TSN: 642, 000
SSK-BC, Nov 3, TSN: 828, 000

NFL

KC-SD, Nov 1, SN: 213, 000
DAL-ATL, Nov 4, TSN: 577, 000
PHI-NO, Nov 5, TSN: 580, 000

NBA

TOR-BRK, Nov 3 SN: 185, 000
TOR-OKC, Nov 6, TSN: 91, 000

All numbers BBM Canada 2+

Source

Those NFL numbers are pretty impressive considering that there are no NFL teams in Canada, and those Canadian ratings are spread out among 32 NFL teams vs the much more concentrated ratings split between only 8 CFL teams.

I wonder what the ratings comparison is between the Lions and Seahawks in the Vancouver market?

Despite existing in one of the largest television markets in North America, the Toronto Blue Jays and the Toronto Raptors cannot beat the ratings for curling. Even men's figure skating dominates the Toronto Raptors.

If you put a curling match on tv 82 or 162 times a season like the Raptors and Blue-Jays, and i guarantee you the ratings for curling would plummet far below baseball or basketball. Men's figure skating on 82 times a season.. ratings gold!

SpongeG

Apr 26, 2013, 3:30 AM

most canadians that i know who watch football choose to watch the NFL over the CFL

hollywoodnorth

Apr 26, 2013, 3:46 AM

Paragon reaches new deal to build smaller downtown casino

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/04/25/bc-paragon-sale-bc-place.html

Prometheus

Apr 26, 2013, 5:04 AM

Those NFL numbers are pretty impressive considering that there are no NFL teams in Canada...

On the contrary. They are pretty weak considering that the NFL is the biggest, most famous, most prestigious, most star-studded league in North America, if not the world, and receives far greater media promotion and coverage in Canada than the CFL does. Randomly ask any Canadian who Tom Brady or Peyton Manning is and he would be able to tell you immediately. Randomly ask a Canadian who Kevin Glenn or Henry Burris is and you will likely be met with a blank stare.

Yet despite this overwhelming disparity in fame, wealth, commercialism, hype, stature and media domination, the NFL fails to equal the tiny and relatively ignored CFL every week.

...and those Canadian ratings are spread out among 32 NFL teams...

I think you have it all wrong. As you pointed out, there are no Canadian teams in the NFL. Thus, Canadian interest in the NFL is based more on an interest in sporting spectacle than on regional pride. Therefore, the NFL ratings are not spread out among 32 teams, but rather among 3 or 4 games shown weekly in Canada. That's equal to or less than the amount of CFL games shown weekly.

Being a domestic league, interest in the CFL, by contrast, is based more on regional pride. Thus, while an NFL game can draw interest from across the entire country, interest in a CFL game is far more limited to the regions in which the two teams playing are based. When you take this into consideration, the weakness of NFL ratings becomes even more apparent.

But this is off topic and the empirical data really speaks for itself.

logan5

Apr 26, 2013, 5:32 AM

OK let's forget about the super bowl because it is so over hyped and crushes the Grey Cup in terms of ratings. But the NFL Conference Championship and CFL Divisional Championship games are comparable. These are both the leagues final four play-off matches. In 2011 the NFL averaged 660 000 more viewers on average in a country that has no entire city behind it the way a cfl team would.

Article uses bbm 2 as a source.
http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/comparing-cfl-and-nfl-ratings-in-2011/

Prometheus

Apr 26, 2013, 7:13 AM

OK let's forget about the super bowl because it is so over hyped and crushes the Grey Cup in terms of ratings.

But that's the thing. The Super Bowl, remarkably, doesn't crush the Grey Cup. Not even close.

The Grey Cup, which is accessible only on cable television and has to compete head-to-head with NFL Sunday, was watched by 5.5 million English Canadians (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=410346) in 2012. The Super Bowl, which is accessible on network television and takes place during the CFL off-season, was watched by only 6.4 million English Canadians (http://canadiansportsfan.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/ctv-cuts-out-on-super-bowl-presentation/) in 2013. Despite its greater accessibility and the absence of any competition from the CFL (not to mention the fact that it's the biggest, most hyped annual sporting event on the planet), the Super Bowl managed to win only by a relatively small margin. Indeed, the Super Bowl would surely have lost to the Grey Cup had the roles been reversed and the Super Bowl was forced to go head-to-head with an important CFL game while the Grey Cup had the airwaves to itself. And one can only imagine how well the Grey Cup would do if it was broadcast on network television and enjoyed just half the media attention in Canada that the Super Bowl does.

Regarding the playoffs, they are similar to the Super Bowl: they are super-hyped, super-promoted special events that take place during the CFL off-season (and thus face no competition from the CFL, unlike the CFL playoffs, which must go head-to-head with NFL Sunday).

The Super Bowl and NFL playoffs are special, isolated cases whose popularity is incommensurate with the popularity of the NFL regular season. Just as there are many people who watch the Oscars despite not having been to a movie all year--so there are many Canadians who watch the NFL playoffs and the Super Bowl despite not having much or any interest in the NFL regular season. For many, if not most, those events are simply about the celebrity and taking part in the unparalleled hype and spectacle of a world-famous event. Just consider all the women (and men) you see at a Super Bowl party who don't know jack squat about football but attend because it's the cool thing to do and want to see Beyonce.

The proof of the two leagues' true popularity in Canada lies in the weekly television ratings during the two over-lapping regular seasons, when the playing field is more level, at least in scheduling, if not in media attention and marketing. And the ratings data incontrovertibly show who wins that competition, despite all the odds.

But, again, all of this is off topic and will be the last word I have on the matter in this thread.

WarrenC12

Apr 26, 2013, 2:46 PM

This NFL debate is pointless. The NFL would not move into a facility like BC Place, it isn't big enough for their new standards.

I'm a football fan, Lions season ticket holder, and you can't beat the value for the price with the CFL, especially here. CFL is a great sport live, but the NFL is a TV experience spectacle on another level. Live games are a fun experience, but the game itself (rules, timing) is more boring.

People compare the CFL to the minor leagues, but that's not fair. It's more like the MLS vs. Premier League.

jayyb

Apr 28, 2013, 12:38 AM

NFL will never come to Vancouver. The only other sports team Vancouver may get is the NBA and that is only if Aquilini is willing to make a $500m commitment. Having a 2nd tenant in his building is appealing but again it comes down to whether he is willing to take that risk.

jlousa

Apr 28, 2013, 5:37 AM

$500M, I'd bet he could pick up one of a handful of NBA teams for less then half that, even then I'm not sure it's a slam dunk from a financial standpoint.

I just hope we (citizens of BC) retain ownership of BC Place and the convention centres after all this settles.

PeterAKer

Apr 28, 2013, 12:26 PM

I doubt anyone is going to by BC Place because it will not be a benefit to the potential owner through stadium up-keep and residential taxes.

I'm a proud supporter of BC Place being kept under the BC Pavilion Corporation and keeping it free of naming rights.

Jebby

Apr 28, 2013, 1:44 PM

I'm a proud supporter of BC Place being kept under the BC Pavilion Corporation and keeping it free of naming rights.

If the province can't find a buyer who will give them a good return on their investment in BC Place and has a sound business plan to run the building profitably, then they should keep it for now.

That said, the stadium naming rights should be sold. BC taxpayers were forced to fork over half a billion dollars to renovate the stadium and the province has a moral obligation to make as much of that money back as possible.

Prometheus

Apr 28, 2013, 1:54 PM

I doubt anyone is going to buy BC Place because it will not be a benefit to the potential owner through stadium up-keep and residential taxes.

But buying BC Place makes a lot of sense if the buyer can tear it down and build more condos. It's no secret that some people in Vision have this strange hatred for BC Place (and anything resembling big city entertainment) and want it to disappear. Prior to the Olympics, there were some voices openly calling for BC Place to be torn down and moved to the suburbs as an alternative to the proposed renovations. Indeed, the city has been doing much to facilitate the suffocation of BC Place (and the entertainment zone that was supposed to be built around it) by ubiquitous residential development. With their provincial allies finally in power, the dreams of some at city hall could become a reality.