[mr.x]

PREMIER UNVEILS NEW VISION FOR BC PLACE & ART GALLERY

VANCOUVER – A major renovation of BC Place Stadium – including a retractable roof after 2010 –
will expand the city’s sport, culture and entertainment district; feature a new home for the Vancouver
Whitecaps; and provide a waterfront site for a new Vancouver Art Gallery, Premier Gordon Campbell
announced today.

“We asked PavCo chair David Podmore to develop a long-term plan for one of British
Columbia’s landmark facilities. What he found was BC Place is in good shape but, like any facility
that age, is in need of upgrades,” said Premier Campbell. “The upgrades pre- and post-Olympics will
significantly reduce energy consumption and extend the life of this world-class facility for another 30
years. It will also give us the opportunity to create a vibrant arts and sporting community for residents
and visitors alike.”

Upgrades to BC Place will occur in two phases. Renovations to suites, seating, washrooms and
concession stands, and enhancement of the existing roof liner will occur before the 2010 Olympic and
Paralympic Winter Games. A new retractable roof will be put in place after the 2010 Games. Both
phases are expected to go out to tender within five months, subject to design, completion of a business
case and cost-benefit analysis and government approval.

“Once we’ve completed our design and planning, we’ll finalize the budget and, subject to
provincial government approval, get a fixed price contract with a guaranteed timeline,” said Podmore.
“As much of the preparatory work on the roof as possible will be done prior to the 2010 Games. The
remaining work to install the new roof will be completed over an estimated eight months after the
Games are over. This is exactly how BC Place was planned and built more than 25 years ago. By
waiting until after 2010 to complete the retractable roof, we’ll get better competitive pricing.”

A retractable roof by itself will cut energy costs for BC Place by one-third, $535,000 annually.
A further $100,000 annually will be saved through operational savings. For example, the stadium will
no longer need air-lock doors to support the roof. Further options, such as solar panels and geothermal
heating, will also be explored.

As part of the new roof and upgrade, which is expected to be complete early in 2011, the
Whitecaps will start playing at BC Place in the summer of 2011, part of a five-year lease with renewals
after 2016. That will give the team the opportunity to apply for a Major League Soccer (MLS)
franchise.

“We are looking forward to playing under the retractable roof at BC Place starting in 2011,”
said Bob Lenarduzzi, president of Vancouver Whitecaps FC. “We are confident that the planned
renovations will make BC Place a more versatile venue, very suitable for soccer and a variety of other
international calibre events. The move to BC Place will allow us to pursue the opportunity for an MSL
franchise and will open up a host of additional opportunities that we are excited to bring to
Vancouver.”

“BC Place has been our home field for 25 years, so we’re thrilled with the plans to upgrade it
and add a retractable roof,” said Bob Ackles, BC Lions president and CEO. “To be able to play
outdoors under a retractable roof is going to make the whole experience even more enjoyable for our
fans. As much as we enjoy playing under the dome, the chance to enjoy a game on a summer night will
be very popular with our fans and players alike.”

As part of the bigger vision for this part of downtown Vancouver, PavCo has been working
with the City of Vancouver, the Vancouver Art Gallery and Canadian Metropolitan Properties, the
owners of the Plaza of Nations, to move the Vancouver Art Gallery to False Creek. Currently, less than
three per cent of its collection is on display, because of space restraints.

In return for future development considerations from the City of Vancouver on its False Creek
property, Canadian Metropolitan Properties is providing the Vancouver Art Gallery with a waterfront
site for its new 320,000 square-foot facility. The Province has already contributed $50 million towards
the new gallery.

“The gallery has experienced unprecedented growth in the last decade, and with more than
40,000 members, record-breaking admissions and a growing collection of 10,000 artworks, is now
bursting at the seams,” said gallery director Kathleen Bartels. “The False Creek location presents an
exciting opportunity to imagine a new Vancouver Art Gallery on this beautiful waterfront site, one that
would serve as an anchor for this extension of Vancouver’s thriving cultural community. In addition to
Premier Campbell’s recent commitment of $50 million, we are extremely grateful to the Province of
British Columbia for bringing us another step closer to realizing our dream for a new Vancouver Art
Gallery.”

Development and the sale, or lease, of lands around BC Place are expected to generate more
than $100 million towards the cost of the new roof and upgrades. Additional revenues will come from
new sponsorships and expanded business opportunities.



http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/8630/68503015bd5.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4062/95653755if0.jpg

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/306/35521388xu5.jpg

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4370/50436235bi5.jpg

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8936/84899419hy9.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/7317/16942348vj7.jpg





BEFORE
http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/BC_Place.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/2/1496642_84bd79ef7e.jpg

[Rob D]

It would be great to see a retractable roof on BC Place. Is is possible to have this in place before the 2010 Olympics or is it proposed for sometime beyond that?

[Acajack]

Is that snow on the ground in Vancouver I see in one of those pics?

[Rob D]

Is that snow on the ground in Vancouver I see in one of those pics?

Definitely looks like it on the exterior before photo! Vancouver does receive snow in the winter, although it rarely stays for any length of time.

[mr.x]

It would be great to see a retractable roof on BC Place. Is is possible to have this in place before the 2010 Olympics or is it proposed for sometime beyond that?

There will be massive interior renovations from now until 2010. The existing inflated roof will receive some renovations, new concourses, new seats, new video boards, new washrooms, new sound and lighting, a cleaned roof, etc....the whole interior will be gutted out. Immediately after 2010, within a month after the Paralympics, construction will commence on the new retractable roof....to be completed in 2011.

The whole plan also includes a new art gallery....if you look in the first rendering, you will see it next to the water.

[Jared]

Looks a bit like the London Millenium Dome:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Millennium_dome.jpg

As part of the new roof and upgrade, which is expected to be complete early in 2011, the
Whitecaps will start playing at BC Place in the summer of 2011, part of a five-year lease with renewals
after 2016. That will give the team the opportunity to apply for a Major League Soccer (MLS)
franchise.

a couple thoughts:

- If this is turning into a permanent home for the Whitecaps then what will happen to Swanguard? Also, I would assume that the proposed Waterfront stadium will be axed?

- I was always under the impression that BC Place's field was smaller than a regular soccer field.

- Will they convert the field to grass?

[darthrider]

How is that new roof retractable? It looks like a roof with a hole in the middle.... what am I missing?

[GreatTallNorth2]

That's news is great for the stadium and football team, but not so great for the soccer fans. This might hurt the chances of Vancouver landing a MLS team. The MLS wants soccer specific stadiums with seating capacity of 20-25,000 people. This is a football stadium, with football lines and the capacity is way too big. Contrast this with Toronto's BMO field and Montreal's new stadium. I am going to see TFC tomorrow and there is nothing like watching a good footy game inside a packed, intimate stadium. Go Reds!

[mr.x]

Looks a bit like the London Millenium Dome:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Millennium_dome.jpg


haha, that's what i thought too.


a couple thoughts:

- If this is turning into a permanent home for the Whitecaps then what will happen to Swanguard? Also, I would assume that the proposed Waterfront stadium will be axed?

- I was always under the impression that BC Place's field was smaller than a regular soccer field.

- Will they convert the field to grass?

1) Swanguard has always been a community facility, for local track meets, community events, and the occasional concert. It will stay, it only has a seating capacity of about 6,000.

2) This is being advertised as the interim home of the Whitecaps. They want to be part of the MLS, and there are only 4 franchise spots left. With BC Place, which is now an acceptable MLS stadium, they can secure a franchise spot. Waterfront Stadium discussions will still continue, but of course this stadium renovation development at BC Place will no doubt hinder the process to a certain extent.

3) not sure about the natural grass.

[mr.x]

That's news is great for the stadium and football team, but not so great for the soccer fans. This might hurt the chances of Vancouver landing a MLS team. The MLS wants soccer specific stadiums with seating capacity of 20-25,000 people. This is a football stadium, with football lines and the capacity is way too big. Contrast this with Toronto's BMO field and Montreal's new stadium. I am going to see TFC tomorrow and there is nothing like watching a good footy game inside a packed, intimate stadium. Go Reds!

If the MLS has no problem with Seattle's team using Quest Field, which is also the home of the NFL, they shouldn't have a problem with the Whitecaps using BC Place either.....especially since the plan is to use BC Place temporarily until a new stadium on the waterfront is built.

The Whitecaps have basically secured the MLS....the MLS has already put Vancouver on top of their list, all that was missing was a MLS acceptable stadium - which is now what BC Place is.

[trueviking]

MLS will not likely grant vancouver a franchise in a stadium that is 3 times too large, with plastic grass with football lines on it.....that is completely against their business plan as a league....if this is the idae, they might as well forget MLS....especially if the promise is a proper stadium no earlier than 2016.

there is no way they will put grass in there....BC place is used for all kinds of things besides field sports.

build a soccer specific stadium that is an appropriate size, with an appropriate playing surface....football and soccer do not mix...this is a proposal of a someone who knows nothing about soccer or the MLS....or even the CFL for that matter...they should bulldoze it and re-build empire stadium.

[mr.x]

How is that new roof retractable? It looks like a roof with a hole in the middle.... what am I missing?

It's nearly the same design as Commerzbank Stadium in Germany. The retractable roof folds into the videoboard at the centre:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/47964162_f9fad38a8f.jpg?v=0
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/17/21329892_96c9b7008b.jpg?v=0
http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/53261170.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=780858ABC91EC2140CC9A3C1D542D882A40A659CEC4C8CB6

[mr.x]

MLS will not likely grant vancouver a franchise in a stadium that is 3 times too large, with plastic grass with football lines on it.....that is completely against their business plan as a league....if this is the idae, they might as well forget MLS....especially if the promise is a proper stadium no earlier than 2016.

there is no way they will put grass in there....BC place is used for all kinds of things besides field sports.

build a soccer specific stadium that is an appropriate size, with an appropriate playing surface....football and soccer do not mix...this is a proposal of a someone who knows nothing about soccer or the MLS....or even the CFL for that matter...they should bulldoze it and re-build empire stadium.

Yet the MLS granted the new Seattle team usage of Quest Field, home of the NFL Seahawks? Not to mention that facility is also 3 times as large with football lines in it too.

Like I said, BC Place will be the Whitecaps new temporary home for MLS until they can get their new smaller stadium built on the waterfront.

[trueviking]

The Whitecaps have basically secured the MLS....the MLS has already put Vancouver on top of their list, all that was missing was a MLS acceptable stadium - which is now what BC Place is.

BC place is not an acceptable stadium for MLS....the league requires soccer specific stadia with no football lines and natural grass....they want them in the 20 000 seat range....TFC was lucky to be admitted with plastic, but they would not have gotten a franchise if the plan was skydome.

the new franchises of MLS come with new stadia of this type, or a concrete promise to construct one...if vancouver thinks that this move will secure them an MLS franchise, they are dead wrong...it will do the exact opposite.

where do you see that this is a temporary move?


http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=a3371ec6-bedf-4321-9d0d-59e834b57a49&p=2


"Lenarduzzi said moving into 60,000-seat BC Place Stadium is not an option for the Whitecaps, even on a temporary basis as negotiations continue on the waterfront stadium.

"BC Place Stadium is not an option, both financially and as a proper facility," he said. "First impressions with the public are very important. We want a stadium that our fans can identify with, and be comfortable with, from the very first game."

[mr.x]

BC place is not an acceptable stadium for MLS....the league requires soccer specific stadia with no football lines and natural grass....they want them in the 20 000 seat range....TFC was lucky to be admitted with plastic, but they would not have gotten a franchise if the plan was skydome.

the new franchises of MLS come with new stadia of this type, or a concrete promise to construct one...if vancouver thinks that this move will secure them an MLS franchise, they are dead wrong...it will do the exact opposite.

where do you see that this is a temporary move?


http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/story.html?id=a3371ec6-bedf-4321-9d0d-59e834b57a49&p=2


"Lenarduzzi said moving into 60,000-seat BC Place Stadium is not an option for the Whitecaps, even on a temporary basis as negotiations continue on the waterfront stadium.

"BC Place Stadium is not an option, both financially and as a proper facility," he said. "First impressions with the public are very important. We want a stadium that our fans can identify with, and be comfortable with, from the very first game."

Did you read my entire post? BC Place is now acceptable to an extent that the MLS will allow the Whitecaps to make it their temporary home until they can get their new 15,000-30,000 seat stadium on the waterfront built.

The MLS granted the Seattle soccer team usage of Quest Field, which as you know is much bigger than what the team needs and is also home of the city's NFL team.

There is no problem here, especially since this will be a temporary home.



edit: THAT ARTICLE WAS FROM LAST YEAR! Major changes have been made since! Here is an article from today:




It's official: retractable roof, Whitecaps and Vancouver Art Gallery coming to BC Place
Friday, May 16 - 10:33:00 AM News1130 Staff
http://www.news1130.com/news/topstory/article.jsp?content=20080516_133300_820

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Premier Gordon Campbell handed out to sports fans and culture buffs today, confirming speculation his government will put a new retractable roof on B.C. Place stadium, but will also build a new art gallery.

The new roof won't be on the stadium in time for the opening and closing ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics.

Upgrades to the stadium will occur in two phases, with renovations to the suites, seating, washrooms and concession stands and improvements to the existing roof happening before the Games.

"There will be significant savings in energy costs with the retractable roof. Over half a million dollars a year in energy costs will be saved as a result of the retractable roof."

The premier gave no price estimate for renovating B.C. Place, but earlier reports pegged the new roof at $200 million, compared to $20 million to give the stadium a new inflatable roof.

The stadium's air-supported covering collapsed in January, 2007 and has since been repaired.

Campbell also announced the new art gallery will be built near the stadium on False Creek and the Liberal government has already committed $50 million towards its cost.

The Whitecaps will also call BC Place home come the summer of 2011. Photos below are courtesy www.bcplacestadium.com




As well, at today's live stadium announcement Whitecaps officials were there to announce their MLS intentions with their move to their new temporary home at BC Place.

[mr.x]

Commissioner's Vancouver statement
Garber comments on stadium renovation announcement

Major League Soccer Communications
05/16/2008 01:05AM

Following today's announcement in Vancouver that BC Place will undergo renovations, Major League Soccer Commissioner Don Garber issued the following statement:

"We believe Vancouver is a potential market for a future Major League Soccer expansion team. There is no doubt the market for professional soccer exists in Vancouver, as we saw last November when nearly 50,000 fans attended the exhibition match between the Los Angeles Galaxy and the Whitecaps.

"We understand the newly renovated BC Place Stadium will be a world-class facility. We look forward to learning more about the proposed renovations so that we may determine whether BC Place can serve as an interim venue for an MLS team pending the construction of a soccer-specific stadium.

"MLS will have 16 teams by 2010 with the addition of Seattle next year and Philadelphia the following season. We are currently in discussions with potential expansion team owners and local governments in many markets across North America regarding the 17th and 18th teams.

We look forward to continuing our discussions with the Whitecaps regarding the opportunity to award a Major League Soccer expansion team to Vancouver in the future."

[trueviking]

doesnt exactly sound like MLS are thrilled with the idea.....its exactly what i said...if the other stadium is concrete they would allow BC place, but do the people in vancouver see it as temporary?.....i still dont see where it says that is the plan....until the mayor or the people involved in the waterfront stadium actually say they they percieve this as a temporary move, i wont believe it......can you imagine the USL whitecaps playing on a plastic field with football lines and 52 000 empty seats...that will be awesome.

renovating BC place is a great thing, but i would be very surprised if this moves the city into MLS's sights....there are several cities now with appropriate venues (montreal included), looking for franchises.

MLS isnt exactly clamouring to get into vancouver...this will not woo them, unless the waterfront stadium is more real as a future project.

MLS was very interested in seattle and their ownership group...thats why they allowed a substandard venue...vancouver has to compete with larger cities that are ready now...not possibly in 10 years...

MLS will not move into BC place....guaranteed....not without a solid plan in place for a move to an appropriate venue.

the whitecaps should distance themselves from this because it will only slow progess on a real stadium...public perception will be why allow another stadium when we are spending 200m on BC place...why cant they play there?

[mr.x]

^ wow, you're a real party pooper over nothing.

Fact is, the MLS has previously stated before that Vancouver is on the top of their list and when we have a soccer-acceptable stadium, they'll take a good look at us and consider.



The MLS has already made precedent with Seattle, New York, and New England's MLS teams - all share stadiums with NFL franchises.

[IntotheWest]

^It partly makes sense that MLS would be interested in Whitecaps (I'm not a big "football"/soccer fan)...but, is there solid proof that Vancouver is "on the top of their list"?

Wouldn't Van be the smallest market in the league if they had a team? I would just imagine they might want to venture into other larger markets first (could be wrong...).

Anyway, I agree with TV that its pretty well-known they want a soccer specific stadium on a smaller scale.

Oh - those shots of BC Place does look cool - I hope they go ahead with that idea...any idea what the lifespan on a roof like that would be?

[feepa]

Very cool idea - I like the water front treatment too... definitely a worthy addition

[MistyMountainHop]

Looks a bit like the London Millenium Dome:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/66/Millennium_dome.jpg

Then Led Zeppelin would play there ...

... except the acoustics suck. Better to go with GM Place or the Coliseum.

[mr.x]

^It partly makes sense that MLS would be interested in Whitecaps (I'm not a big "football"/soccer fan)...but, is there solid proof that Vancouver is "on the top of their list"?

Wouldn't Van be the smallest market in the league if they had a team? I would just imagine they might want to venture into other larger markets first (could be wrong...).

Anyway, I agree with TV that its pretty well-known they want a soccer specific stadium on a smaller scale.

Oh - those shots of BC Place does look cool - I hope they go ahead with that idea...any idea what the lifespan on a roof like that would be?

It was mentioned several times before by the MLS comissioner that Vancouver was on top of the list.

And with regards to a smaller soccer stadium, another forumer in the Vancouver section posted this:

Whitecaps president Bob Lenarduzzi said Tuesday the club is still 100 per cent committed to building a soccer-specific, natural grass stadium on the Vancouver waterfront, but would consider B.C. Place as a temporary venue if major renos are announced shortly as expected.

"Our priority is still the waterfront stadium, but given that it's taking as long as it has, we need to have alternatives if the opportunity to move to a higher level is available," said Lenarduzzi.

"It would be a short-term solution, as we're looking at the waterfront stadium being our permanent solution but of course we're mired in that process right now."



As for the stadium renovations, it has been confirmed today that it will happen. Massive interior renovations will begin in a month, and will be completed in time for the 2010 Games. This includes new videoboards, new concourse and washrooms, new seats, new lighting and acoustics, etc. and some work on the new roof supports will be done in time for 2010.

A month after the Paralympics in March 2010, major construction will begin on the retractable roof for a 2011 completion.

[Acajack]

Wouldn't Van be the smallest market in the league if they had a team? I would just imagine they might want to venture into other larger markets first (could be wrong...).


Not really. The league has teams in Kansas City, Columbus and Salt Lake City, all of which are comparable in size to Vancouver (some may even be smaller).

[IntotheWest]

^True. I guess they are all about the same metro size. I guess with Columbus I think of its "market" population as being quite large because of it's proximity to a few other large cities...but, maybe that would only matter for certain sports (NFL), and events. SLC is definitely a bit smaller, and isn't really close to anything.

[Acajack]

And don’t forget the U.S. Bureau of the Census is actually much “looser” than Stats Canada when it comes to defining metro areas. Typically, U.S. metros encompass way more territory than those in Canada. For example, Metro Ottawa-Gatineau has 1.1 million people officially, but that doesn’t include outlying towns like Carleton Place and Arnprior, which are definitely part of Metro Ottawa in everyone’s mind. If we were in the U.S. they’d be included with Ottawa-Gatineau and count in the total population.

Likewise, the officiall 2.2 million population figure for Metro Vancouver doesn’t include Abbotsford, though once again I’d say most people consider it wholly part of Metro Vancouver.

[theman23]

Likewise, the officiall 2.2 million population figure for Metro Vancouver doesn’t include Abbotsford, though once again I’d say most people consider it wholly part of Metro Vancouver.

Don't forget about Kitchener-RIM-Waterloo being pretty much part of the GTA.

Hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have said that.

[Overground]

Out of the 7 teams(Van, Mont, Port, SD, Atl, StL, Miami) the main rivals for the last 2 slots for expansion is Van, Montreal, Portland, and St Louis. Here's a brief look at them.

- Montreal needs to expand their $14m(that's it?) 13k seat new stadium up to MLS standards if they do get it. They do have financial backing though. Their current team is in 2nd division football. Maybe Van's biggest threat.

- St Louis has financial backing to build an 18k stadium 12 miles from the city. But they lack strong ownership and need investors for the rest. Their team is currently in 4th division football.

- Portland's owner said he'll put up the $40m expansion fee but the city has to pay for the rest. Their first priority is redoing 20k seat PGE Park baseball stadium, where the Timbers play by adding grandstand seating and a new east stand and infrastructure which Don Garber said for the estimated $20m price tag, "might be optimistic." For all this to go through, Portland will have to relocate their baseball team into a whole new stadium for millions. Timbers are in the same 2nd division as the Caps.

- The 'Caps. Confirmed temporary digs at new BC Place for 2011(expected franchise starts for the last 2 teams anyway). Confirmed plan for a new football specific stadium with private financial backing already in place. A financially sound team that is the current oldest continuously playing team in North America with a history unmatched by any of the other cities vying for an MLS club.

[mr.x]

^ sounds quite convincing to me that the Whitecaps will be leading the pact for one of those MLS spots.

[deasine]

^It partly makes sense that MLS would be interested in Whitecaps (I'm not a big "football"/soccer fan)...but, is there solid proof that Vancouver is "on the top of their list"?

Wouldn't Van be the smallest market in the league if they had a team? I would just imagine they might want to venture into other larger markets first (could be wrong...).

Anyway, I agree with TV that its pretty well-known they want a soccer specific stadium on a smaller scale.

Oh - those shots of BC Place does look cool - I hope they go ahead with that idea...any idea what the lifespan on a roof like that would be?

I think Vancouver has the largest soccer audiences in Canada, if not one of the larger ones. Soccer has been part of Vancouver for a long time and the Whitecaps have been the first to play in BC Place in 1986. Too bad soccer fizzled out during the 90s, but it's starting to grow once again. Whitecaps is the best known team in the USL.

The stadium, with proper maintenance, should last at least another thirty years.

[Overground]

^first time in '83 at BC Place.

The Caps have the longest running football club in Canadian and US history now(a joke if you think about it in NA, but nevertheless). Unfortunately they had a break between 84 and 86 but if you did combine both clubs in name they go back 1973.

[Acajack]

Out of the 7 teams(Van, Mont, Port, SD, Atl, StL, Miami) the main rivals for the last 2 slots for expansion is Van, Montreal, Portland, and St Louis. Here's a brief look at them.

- Montreal needs to expand their $14m(that's it?) 13k seat new stadium up to MLS standards if they do get it. They do have financial backing though. Their current team is in 2nd division football. Maybe Van's biggest threat.

- St Louis has financial backing to build an 18k stadium 12 miles from the city. But they lack strong ownership and need investors for the rest. Their team is currently in 4th division football.

- Portland's owner said he'll put up the $40m expansion fee but the city has to pay for the rest. Their first priority is redoing 20k seat PGE Park baseball stadium, where the Timbers play by adding grandstand seating and a new east stand and infrastructure which Don Garber said for the estimated $20m price tag, "might be optimistic." For all this to go through, Portland will have to relocate their baseball team into a whole new stadium for millions. Timbers are in the same 2nd division as the Caps.

- The 'Caps. Confirmed temporary digs at new BC Place for 2011(expected franchise starts for the last 2 teams anyway). Confirmed plan for a new football specific stadium with private financial backing already in place. A financially sound team that is the current oldest continuously playing team in North America with a history unmatched by any of the other cities vying for an MLS club.

Excellent arguments for Vancouver. Sounds like they just have to get their stadium situation settled and they'll be pretty much neck and neck with Montreal.

Montreal does have some advantages over Vancouver, however.

- Although the Whitecaps have been around longer than L'Impact, Montreal's average USL attendance is generally double that of Vancouver.

- Montreal's stadium is already there. Vancouver's is still on paper.

- Montreal is a larger market than Vancouver both city-wide (metro pop) plus province-wide as well.

- Montreal holds the promise of a new TV contract (with RDS) where MLS hasn't gained a foothold yet, whereas Vancouver does not (MLS is already on TSN and CBC because of the Toronto FC).

Montreal does have a few strikes against it, most notably the fairly recent departure of the Expos, the perception that it's a hockey-only town and its relative foreign-ness compared to other North American cities (but this last one may not be as big a deal in soccer as in other sports).

I'd also be interested in knowing who generally goes to Whitecaps games. Do members of the Asian and South Asian communities go in significant numbers? In Montreal, members of immigrant-origin communities are generally over-represented (as compared to their share of the population) at L'Impact's games.

Ideally, I'd like to see both Vancouver and Montreal get teams. Of course, in my perfect world we'd have a top-rank Canadian league so two of our largest cities (like Montreal and Vancouver) wouldn't have to jostle against one another and plead with the Americans: "pick me mister! pick me! please!"
With a Canadian league, it would be a given that the second and third-largest cities in the country would have teams, the same way it's a given that New York, Los Angeles and Chicago have teams in their country's leagues (the notable anomaly being the NFL in LA, but should will be settled in a few years).

[deasine]

- Montreal's stadium is already there. Vancouver's is still on paper.

Ummm if you were referring to the Whitecaps Waterfront Station, yes it's still a concept. But we are talking about BC Place, which is already there: it's served the expo '86 and soon to serve the opening and closing ceremonies for the Vancouver 2010 olympics. All the renovations will be completed before 2010, the roof will then be completed after the olympics by the end of 2010.

[cornholio]

It is very unlikely that Montreal will get a MLS team in this expansion phase. Part of the MLS's business plan is to create regional rivalries, that is why St. Louis the front runner(aka. MLS wants them to take a team). It is to create a regional Kansas - St.Louis rivalry. As far as Vancouver goes its likely they will get the final MLS spot. Portland is Vancouvers competition but Vancouver is clearly the front runner for all the reasons mentioned. As far as the Seattle situation is concerned the only reason they are able to play in Qwest stadium is because Paul Allen is the main investor in the team, and we all know who he is(the MLS will do anything to land such a investor, in fact there probably isnt a better investor then him to attract). The MLS does require a soccer specific stadium(or concrete plans to build one within a year or two), BC place wont cut it but can be used a temporary venue if the Waterfront stadium is approved and ready to go. The other teams in the MLS that play in NFL stadiums are the original teams when there were no soccer specific stadium requirements(because the league was just starting and had to make some sacrifices).

So for the last 2 MLS spots St.Louis is all but certain to have one of them. Technicly Montreal is in competition with St.Louis for a team but really the chances are almost nill.
Vancouver and Portland are in competiton for the last spot with Vancouver being the clear front runner. Though Portland still has a chance put up a fight though unlikely.

Baisicly i will make all of you a bet that Vancouver and St.Louis will have the last two spots.

When the next expansion comes then Montreal will hopefull get a spot too, though it aint happening this time....even though it would be great.

as it stands the groups are
1)San Fran, LA, LA
2)Salt Lake, Denver
3)Dallas, Houston
4)Boston, NY, Philly, Wash
5)Chicago, Columbus, Toronto *this one is questionable
6)now both defunct - Miami, Tampa
7)Kansas...*St.Louis
8)Seattle...*Vancouver or Portland

[Overground]

I'd also be interested in knowing who generally goes to Whitecaps games. Do members of the Asian and South Asian communities go in significant numbers? In Montreal, members of immigrant-origin communities are generally over-represented (as compared to their share of the population) at L'Impact's games.



I agree with what you've said regarding Montreal's advantages. This may be difficult for MLS to decide between Van and Mtl. So perhaps the consensus is it's going to go down to Montreal, St Louis, and Vancouver. Tough one. I wish MLS would just expand to 20 for 2012 and then we could have all 3 in plus Portland or whomever.

In regards to who goes to Caps matches. I don't think it's terribly similar to Montreal but I think the demographic for the area is a fair representation. I'm also not sure if there's that many east Asian immigrants that go. What it would be like when they move downtown is impossible to say but the popularity of WFC will rise and that will probably bring in plenty of newcomers and there's lots of those in the city centre.

[agrant]

FYI - much more interesting in video form. :D

RbUtfU_T1zE


I think Vancouver has the largest soccer audiences in Canada, if not one of the larger ones. Soccer has been part of Vancouver for a long time and the Whitecaps have been the first to play in BC Place in 1986. Too bad soccer fizzled out during the 90s, but it's starting to grow once again. Whitecaps is the best known team in the USL.

The stadium, with proper maintenance, should last at least another thirty years.Actually, the caps played their first game in BC Place back in 83, soon after it was built. I was there :) . The club started 10 years earlier at Empire. The NASL fizzled out in 84. I believe the caps had one of the top attendance figures of all the teams in that league throughout those years. It was a different time, so it would be interesting to see how many people will show up to MLS games. The quality is not a heck of a lot better than USL Div 1.

[Acajack]

It is very unlikely that Montreal will get a MLS team in this expansion phase. Part of the MLS's business plan is to create regional rivalries, that is why St. Louis the front runner(aka. MLS wants them to take a team). It is to create a regional Kansas - St.Louis rivalry. As far as Vancouver goes its likely they will get the final MLS spot. Portland is Vancouvers competition but Vancouver is clearly the front runner for all the reasons mentioned. As far as the Seattle situation is concerned the only reason they are able to play in Qwest stadium is because Paul Allen is the main investor in the team, and we all know who he is(the MLS will do anything to land such a investor, in fact there probably isnt a better investor then him to attract). The MLS does require a soccer specific stadium(or concrete plans to build one within a year or two), BC place wont cut it but can be used a temporary venue if the Waterfront stadium is approved and ready to go. The other teams in the MLS that play in NFL stadiums are the original teams when there were no soccer specific stadium requirements(because the league was just starting and had to make some sacrifices).

So for the last 2 MLS spots St.Louis is all but certain to have one of them. Technicly Montreal is in competition with St.Louis for a team but really the chances are almost nill.
Vancouver and Portland are in competiton for the last spot with Vancouver being the clear front runner. Though Portland still has a chance put up a fight though unlikely.

Baisicly i will make all of you a bet that Vancouver and St.Louis will have the last two spots.

When the next expansion comes then Montreal will hopefull get a spot too, though it aint happening this time....even though it would be great.

as it stands the groups are
1)San Fran, LA, LA
2)Salt Lake, Denver
3)Dallas, Houston
4)Boston, NY, Philly, Wash
5)Chicago, Columbus, Toronto *this one is questionable
6)now both defunct - Miami, Tampa
7)Kansas...*St.Louis
8)Seattle...*Vancouver or Portland


Unless you are in the know with someone in the expansion department at MLS headquarters, I fail to see, based on the facts you have presented, how Vancouver's bid is such a slam-dunk, and how Montreal doesn't have a ghost of chance.

If MLS is interested in rivalries, Montreal has a potential rivalry with Toronto that could be far more interesting that anything that could be mustered in "Cascadia". Just think of the classic French-English thing...

Also, how well did the U20 World Cup do in attendance in Vancouver last year? (This is not a rhetorical question - I have no idea how it did out there.) But keep in mind the tournament drew some crowds of around 45,000 in Montreal. Plus, most games at Frank Clair Stadium in Ottawa sold out (28,000), and the capital is only two hours away and could be seen by MLS as part of the Montreal market.

Now, I'm not saying Montreal is a shoo-in, and I don't have a vested interest in this anyway. But I just find its chances are being disproportionately downplayed here.

[Acajack]

Ummm if you were referring to the Whitecaps Waterfront Station, yes it's still a concept. But we are talking about BC Place, which is already there: it's served the expo '86 and soon to serve the opening and closing ceremonies for the Vancouver 2010 olympics. All the renovations will be completed before 2010, the roof will then be completed after the olympics by the end of 2010.

BC Place is not a soccer-specific stadium like the MLS prefers these days. Too big, impersonal (even the new version), and MLS-type crowds would be lost in the cavernous bowl.

I could see MLS overlooking this if MLS wanted Vancouver in its in league more than Vancouver wanted into MLS (sort of like what happened with Seattle), but I haven't seen any evidence that this is the case.

[mr.x]

BC Place is not a soccer-specific stadium like the MLS prefers these days. Too big, impersonal (even the new version), and MLS-type crowds would be lost in the cavernous bowl.

I could see MLS overlooking this if MLS wanted Vancouver in its in league more than Vancouver wanted into MLS (sort of like what happened with Seattle), but I haven't seen any evidence that this is the case.

Like what has been repeatedly said before, the MLS will accept BC Place on an interim basis on the condition that the franchise will build a smaller soccer-specific stadium in the near future.

Right now, BC Place with its massive renovations is acceptable for the MLS on an interim basis. The Whitecaps are still very committed into building their Waterfront Stadium.





Also, how well did the U20 World Cup do in attendance in Vancouver last year? (This is not a rhetorical question - I have no idea how it did out there.)

The only venue suitable for the U-20 World Cup back then was Swangard Stadium in Burnaby, as BC Place was clearly unsuitable. It hosted the tournaments, and capacity was doubled to 12,000 with temporary stands. Every game was a sell-out, tickets sold out quite quickly and if they had a larger venue they could've definitely sold a lot more tickets:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1006/970651799_bc2bc35e81.jpg?v=0
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1310/970740827_dfd1740387.jpg?v=0

[agrant]

:previous: I'm in that last pic. The guy with the blue shirt. :D

[agrant]

Unless you are in the know with someone in the expansion department at MLS headquarters, I fail to see, based on the facts you have presented, how Vancouver's bid is such a slam-dunk, and how Montreal doesn't have a ghost of chance.

If MLS is interested in rivalries, Montreal has a potential rivalry with Toronto that could be far more interesting that anything that could be mustered in "Cascadia". Just think of the classic French-English thing...

Also, how well did the U20 World Cup do in attendance in Vancouver last year? (This is not a rhetorical question - I have no idea how it did out there.) But keep in mind the tournament drew some crowds of around 45,000 in Montreal. Plus, most games at Frank Clair Stadium in Ottawa sold out (28,000), and the capital is only two hours away and could be seen by MLS as part of the Montreal market.

Now, I'm not saying Montreal is a shoo-in, and I don't have a vested interest in this anyway. But I just find its chances are being disproportionately downplayed here.Looking at stadium sizes used in the Under 20 World Cup to decide who gets into the MLS? We can pretty much throw that whole thing out the window. Both cities can support an MLS team. It's not up to us anyway, so there's no point arguing really.

[zoomer]

so...what's the big deal about getting into a two bit professional soccer league anyways? MLS has done an amazing sell job if cities are fighting it out to get an expansion team. Heck, the fact that they have limited the supply has just driven up the price and the demand. If there was no limit on the number of teams, they might be doing the chasing instead of being chased.

Seriously, I'd like to see another pro league established to challenge the MLS.

Of course with the history of pro soccer in North America this is unlikely. We'll see if MLS is even around 10 years from now, after the novelty has worn off yet again.

[Nicko999]

TheStar.com

by Cathal Kelly

On the Toronto FC website, BMO Field is referred to as "home to the Canadian National Soccer Team." If that's the case, the team must be having domestic troubles. How else to explain the fact that they don't want to spend any time here?

In announcing on Tuesday that Canada's first home game in its qualifying run for the 2010 World Cup will be played at Montreal's new Saputo Stadium, officials were in knots trying to explain that this wasn't a slap in the face to Toronto.

"It's a comfort level, this group is more comfortable on grass," Canadian head coach Dale Mitchell said.

That's code for, "This group hates playing at BMO Field."

The first and greatest difference between Saputo Stadium and BMO is the surface. Toronto has artificial FieldTurf. The $15 million, 13,500-seat Montreal venue has grass. And not just any grass. Fancy-schmancy grass. Grass specially designed for the soccer stadium by the horticultural experts at the fancier-schmancier Saint-Raphael golf course. The Saputo family owns both venues.

Swatches of this designer grass were offered up for Mitchell to test before a decision was made on which to use. That's the sort of service that explains how the Saputos made millions in the grocery business. And why they've won over the Canadian soccer community.

When the CSA, under former COO Kevan Pipe, decided to back MLSE's bid for public money to build a soccer stadium downtown, they did so in the hopes that the national teams would have a new, state-of-the-art home.

Pipe didn't bargain on how much players would hate the artificial surface, a necessity in making the stadium available for government-mandated year-round use.

"It's no hidden fact that the players don't like playing on the surface," veteran Canadian defender Paul Stalteri said last year of the turf.

Pipe should have been able to predict how tepidly Toronto took to its national teams. Far less than the announced 9,325 attended last year's friendly against Costa Rica, many chanting in Spanish.

So little wonder Montreal gets the key June qualifier against Saint Vincent & the Grenadines. As a consolation, Toronto gets an under-20 friendly against Argentina.

"The CSA didn't consult with us, nor do they need to," MLSE VP Tom Anselmi, the man in charge of Toronto FC, said this week. If it's the National Soccer Stadium, shouldn't they at least get a courtesy call?

Once Canada beats Saint Vincent – and God help the national program if they don't – they will move on to round-robin competition in the fall. Assuming that the favourites advance, that will pit Canada against Mexico, Honduras and Jamaica.

Though the CSA won't confirm it, this is now they will divvy up those home games – vs. Honduras in Montreal, vs. Mexico in Edmonton and vs. Jamaica in Toronto.

The rationale here is financial rather than strategic. Edmonton can easily sell out the 60,000-seat Commonwealth Stadium against Mexico. Toronto's West Indian community will pack BMO for the game against Jamaica.

That leaves the rubber-match in the group, against Honduras, to be played in a city that has a proven record of support, fancy grass and relative proximity to our European-based players.

There is an apparent scheduling conflict already emerging in the Mexico-Canada game to be played in Edmonton. Rumour has it that Montreal will host that game as well if Edmonton bows out.

So, the reality is that Montreal is now the dwelling place of Canadian soccer. Once Vancouver's proposed Whitecap Stadium is put on track, BMO Field drops to third-place in a three-man race.

MLSE can't alter the playing surface. The CSA doesn't have the wherewithal to force its players to play primarily on a surface they distrust. Toronto fans haven't shown that they care much either way.

But for the committed few in this town, it's going to hurt if the Canadian team cracks the World Cup for the first time in three decades away from "home."

[agrant]

Understandable. Field turf is shite compared to a really good grass surface. I never fully understood why BMO went with field turf, being the so called national stadium. I figure its just a matter of time before they decide to change to grass. They'll expand in five years, assuming the ticket demand is as high as ever, and use the extra revenue to deal with the maintenance.

[MolsonExport]

TheStar.com

by Cathal Kelly

RIM! :D

[Nicko999]

RIM! :D

I tought it was RIM:D