[phrenic]

continued from: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=3596737#post3596737



Is there anyone else who likes Fenwick?

I have a certain appreciation for it. I just find it quite ugly looking, like most people. In fact, it hurts to look at it. The installation of a new or updated facade, or even a Queen's Square-type paint job, would do wonders for the appeal of the building to Haligonians.

[hfx_chris]

I don't know what it is, but many of the buildings people look down on for their brutalist architectural style, I really like. I like Fenwick, I like Scotia Square, I like the Killam Library at Dal, etc etc. And to tell the truth, I don't know why, because when I really sit down and analyze the stylings of those buildings I think to myself, they are actually kind of ugly. Maybe it's the ugliness that turns me on?

There are things Fenwick could do to enhance the look of their building, as you said just a simply repaint a la Queen Square would certainly make the building more attractive to the general public. Look at Ocean Towers, they look 200% better when they repainted them purple and white - or whatever colours those are.

[worldlyhaligonian]

They are white and a purple-blue.

I think Fenwick would actually look impressive with a similar paint-job. Its not that the building is ugly in form, it just looks really run down, derelict.

[hfx_chris]

Yes, that's exactly what's wrong with Fenwick! Neglect, architecturally it's a nice building in my opinion, but it's in desperate need of a refresh.

[Takeo]

Yah... put a coat of purple paint on it... that's make it swell. LOL. Just implode it.

BTW... I also really like "70's" architecture. I LOVE the massing and the warmth. Big thick brick walls, earth tones, etc. I love it. Reminds me of Louis Kahn. And I love the Killam.

That said... the Life Science center is depressing inside... and Scotia Square is NOT a good building. But I do really like some of it and I am disgusted to NO END when a building owner takes a piece of architecture... of whatever style... good building or not... and sticks makeup and christmas decorations on it to bring it "up to date".

Ocean Towers is concrete. Let it be concrete. I think that paint job was a horrible idea. Not that that building is an example of great architecture by any means!!! But it still seems so wrong! And just imagine how nice the paint is going to look 5 years from now. Ugh.

The other example of this is the crap that Aliant stuck onto the side of Scotia Square. What the hell?!?! It looks like Michael Graves puked all over the side of the building.

[phrenic]

The other example of this is the crap that Aliant stuck onto the side of Scotia Square. What the hell?!?! It looks like Michael Graves puked all over the side of the building.

Also, there is a very noticeable difference in colour between the original 14 stories of the building and the additional 7. It could be due to weather and time more than anything else, but any other property I've seen where floors have been added after the original construction has made a point of making sure they blend together well.

EDIT: They didn't even finish the Queen's Square paint job that I mentioned. What's up with that?

[terrynorthend]

They are white and a purple-blue.

I think Fenwick would actually look impressive with a similar paint-job. Its not that the building is ugly in form, it just looks really run down, derelict.

I believe that would be "periwinkle" LOL!!

[Takeo]

Also, there is a very noticeable difference in colour between the original 14 stories of the building and the additional 7. It could be due to weather and time more than anything else, but any other property I've seen where floors have been added after the original construction has made a point of making sure they blend together well.

Well... I was referring to Scotia Square... all the multi-colored junk Aliant slapped onto it... on the Barrington St. side... where the busses all stop. But ya... the Aliant tower does look bad where they added the new floors.

[Keith P.]

Also, there is a very noticeable difference in colour between the original 14 stories of the building and the additional 7. It could be due to weather and time more than anything else, but any other property I've seen where floors have been added after the original construction has made a point of making sure they blend together well.

EDIT: They didn't even finish the Queen's Square paint job that I mentioned. What's up with that?

Regarding the Maritime Center color mismatch, I remember at the time when it was being added to that the issue was discussed in the press and I'm sure I remember it being mentioned that they had picked a shade of concrete that would weather to match. Obviously, someone miscalculated. :shrug:

[Keith P.]

That said... the Life Science center is depressing inside... and Scotia Square is NOT a good building. But I do really like some of it and I am disgusted to NO END when a building owner takes a piece of architecture... of whatever style... good building or not... and sticks makeup and christmas decorations on it to bring it "up to date".


On Scotia Square... I don't know what the architects were thinking regarding the Barrington St side. To just leave a sheer blank wall at street level always baffled me. I don't know what's behind that wall but I wonder if it would be possible to take it, open it up with glass and add some small retail along with some access to the next level up.

[phrenic]

Well... I was referring to Scotia Square... all the multi-colored junk Aliant slapped onto it... on the Barrington St. side... where the busses all stop. But ya... the Aliant tower does look bad where they added the new floors.

Oh on second look so you were. I missed Scotia Square and thought maritime centre for some reason. :koko::shrug: Anyway, I don't really mind the stuff on the side of Scotia Square. It's not fantastic by any means, but it livens up the otherwise blank wall along the call centre and cafeteria inside.

[Takeo]

Oh on second look so you were. I missed Scotia Square and thought maritime centre for some reason. :koko::shrug: Anyway, I don't really mind the stuff on the side of Scotia Square. It's not fantastic by any means, but it livens up the otherwise blank wall along the call centre and cafeteria inside.

I'm all for the banishment of blank walls of course... and enlivenment... but as with everything in life... it's all in the execution... and to me... what they did there looks horrendous and tacky. To each their own I guess :)

[Dmajackson]

I don't mind Fenwick because its unique and adds people to the neighbourhood but there are a few things i dont like about it:

1) It needs a paint job bad. Im not suggesting purple or orange, but just some basic color that'll cover up the fadingness of the building.

and 2) it looks horrible at street level. Its long side goes across the block so when you're on Fenwick or South it looks like a gray windowless needle. And its below street level. Its sunk into the ground requiring concrete walls around the lot instead of at street level. St. James Place helps this on the South St side at least.

Other then that its a decent building its not beautiful in my opinion but its no Grain Elevators either.

[someone123]

Fenwick is really not that bad. It needs to be cleaned up a bit. The street level on the Fenwick Street side is pretty poor but that can be said of a very large number of buildings in the city, and because the tower has a small footprint it only really affects as small part of that side of the block. The South Street side was never a part of the Fenwick tower lot.

To some degree I like Fenwick's scale. It makes the city feel a bit larger and more urbane.

[Keith P.]

I read recently that Dal has selected a broker to offer Fenwick for sale. What that would mean for the residence operation there was unclear. I was talking to a Dal property worker there a while back and was told that the building is in very bad shape. Apparently the basements are full of water due to structural problems. Scary.

[hfx_chris]

The other example of this is the crap that Aliant stuck onto the side of Scotia Square. What the hell?!?! It looks like Michael Graves puked all over the side of the building.
Hah. Well, it may look kind of tacky, but I think it's a hell of a lot better looking than the sheer concrete wall, which never should have been allowed at street level. I believe their receiving area is behind there, is it not? Or at least possibly storage or warehouse space for the tenants.. If they could open that up as suggested and put in some smaller retail spaces at street level (accessible from outside) it would probably do wonders, but I doubt they want to move their receiving and warehouse space :)
Now that I think of it, aren't there air vents along the sidewalk there? That could be a mechanical room behind there, in which case that'll never happen.

EDIT: They didn't even finish the Queen's Square paint job that I mentioned. What's up with that?Well, I know they had to put the repaint on Queen Square on hold for winter, and I believe they're going to be resuming soon. They've got platforms on the outside of the tower, and I think they've been working on the windows on the painted side of the building, so they'll probably move around to the unpainted side when they're finished whatever it is they're doing... they've also had a cherry picker type thing on the shorter 3-story section of the building at the corner of Alderney and Queen for the last few days, that section also hasn't been painted yet.

[Takeo]

My point about the windows added to the side of Scotia Square is that what they did there is more decoration than architecture. It could have been done so much better.

[spaustin]

This will no doubt not be a popular sentiment on here, but I think Fenwick is way too tall for its location. The building's around its base to the east are like 3 storeys. The fact that its a concerte monstrosity makes that even worse. I'm not saying there aren't places in the city where we couldn't go up high like that, but that location should never have been one of them.

[alps]

I love Fenwick - I don't know why people see concrete as a bad thing, honestly, I like concrete a hell of a lot more than brick (although maybe I've just grown completely sick of brick, living in Halifax). Fenwick's great, a big, fantastic, slender, monolith that tops off that hill beautifully. I hope they never modernize it in any way, the garish 70s decor inside has a certain charm (orange carpet, lime green walls, etc), and the weathered plazas outside give off a feeling that you don't really see often in Halifax...old rotting idealism, or something. Hell, I even see a cyberpunk element to it, it's like that decrepit apartment the protagonist goes back to every night, sits on the balcony and gazes out towards the huge, modern steel cranes at the docks (see link in signature :)). Fenwick has a place in the city! :notacrook:

odd romantic discourse courtesy of a long tiring day at work

[someone123]

What? Architecture has value beyond its ability to immediately evoke pleasant feelings?

That post sounded a little sophisticated. You'd better move to Toronto.

[Jonovision]

It's official now.

For sale: N.S.’s tallest building

By STEVE PROCTOR Business Editor
Fri. Jun 13 - 4:33 AM

The tallest building in the province is officially for sale.

Tim Margolian, vice-president of investment sales with DTZ Barnicke Atlantic, said Thursday that Dalhousie University has hired his firm to sell Fenwick Place, a 33-floor student residence the university has owned since 1971.

"This is a significant building and it will be marketed nationally," he said.

The 98-metre-high building has been panned in some quarters as Halifax’s biggest architectural eyesore, but Mr. Margolian said it is a signature building for the city.

"With what is happening in Halifax right now, we may never see another 30-storey building. For that reason alone, I expect it will get a lot of attention."

For more than two years, the city has been working on development guidelines for the downtown that could limit the height of buildings, except in a designated area around the Cogswell Street interchange.

No purchase price for Fenwick Place has been set and Mr. Margolian said it may be weeks before DTZ Barnicke Atlantic has completed its due diligence and come up with a Dalhousie-approved sales strategy.

Dal spokesman Charles Crosby said DTZ Barnicke Atlantic was chosen to sell the building after the university’s board of governors put out a request for proposals in mid-December.

Postings on several local websites suggest Fenwick Place might be torn down to make way for a condominium development. Looking out the window of his office at the tower, Mr. Margolian said he would be shocked if it were demolished."First, you’d never get approval to build to that height again, and second, there’s no reason the building can’t be refurbished at a reasonable cost."

Fenwick Place was intended to be an apartment building but Dalhousie bought it at an auction in 1971 after the developer ran into financial trouble.

The building will continue to be used as a residence for some 400 Dal students this fall.

Mr. Margolian said that given the size of the project, the sales effort might stretch into the fall or next spring.

( sproctor@herald.ca)

[Spitfire75]

Postings on several local websites suggest Fenwick Place might be torn down to make way for a condominium development. Looking out the window of his office at the tower, Mr. Margolian said he would be shocked if it were demolished."First, you’d never get approval to build to that height again, and second, there’s no reason the building can’t be refurbished at a reasonable cost."

Any idea what these local websites he's talking about are?

[worldlyhaligonian]

A refurbishment has been discussed on these forms alot in the past... lol, I've actually made 2 calls... one about them possibly moving the houses for south park and brenton, as wells as the fenwick refurb. contest thread i made, let me see if i can find the link.

it would be huge if they rufurbished it to just make it look a bit better but not distort the original form too much.

[Amanita]

A word about the Maritime Center- I researched this building for a couple of high school projects, and learned about the reason why it's two different colours.
Apparently the concrete used for the facade was supposed to come from the same location as the original staff. However, somebody decided not to do this, and went looking elsewhere. End result? Mismatched facade several floors up. Apparently the building owners sued over it.

[Takeo]

it would be huge if they rufurbished it to just make it look a bit better but not distort the original form too much.

I agree. Just don't paint it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Any idea what these local websites he's talking about are?

lol, i wonder...

[Spitfire75]

I was seriously asking. I know there's this site and SSC (which is pretty dead), but is there any other decent websites?

[hfx_chris]

I'm seriously wondering as well.

[hoser111]

Dalhousie U puts Fenwick Place up for sale
BY JON TATTRIE, METRO HALIFAX
The Nova Scotia Business Journal

HALIFAX – If you need a 100-metre concrete rocket in southend Halifax, today’s your lucky day. Dalhousie University has put its fabled Fenwick Place on the market. The university decided to sell the 33-storey monolith earlier this year and finally put it up for sale this week.

We’ve been reviewing our residents’ needs, and what we want to do is bring our students closer to the main campus,” said Dalhousie spokesman Charles Crosby. crosby said the 400 students living in the residence needn’t worry about getting tossed out, as their leases will be honoured and they will be assigned other places in residence next year.

Crosby said Fenwick’s downtown location will fire the imagination of some lucky developer. It could be turned into an apartment complex or a privately-run university residence. Those hoping to swim in the skies will be disappointed, however. Legend has it the big building has an empty pool on the uppermost floor -- empty, because the builder realized too late that if it was filled with water, it would come crashing through the lower 32 stories.

“I’ve been through that building, and I think I would recall a pool,” Crosby noted dryly. “I’m pretty sure that’s not the case.”

Dalhousie paid $5 million for the tower 35 years ago. Seller DTZ Barnicke says it’s had offers, but nothing concrete. And the price tag? They’re keeping mum for now, noting there isn’t a comparable building in the city.

Student Mathew Glin moved into Fenwick a few weeks ago. While unimpressed with the “anti-suicide” mesh over the balconies, he said it’s a fine place to live.

“It looks like it should be condemned on the outside, but inside, it’s quite nice,” Glin said yesterday. Asked if he would buy it, Glin declined to put in an offer. – Metro Halifax

[hfx_chris]

Concrete rocket?

Anyway, lets hope the new owners spruce up the exterior a bit. It could use a good scrubbing!

[alps]

I'm hoping for a refurbishment of some sort, I'd hate to see it torn down (though I'm hoping that's more unlikely now that there's a new building next door).

[Takeo]

What?! The pool story is a myth?! That story has been going around since the beginning of time!! I've told it myself many times. I had no idea it was just a myth!! Funny.

[alps]

What?! The pool story is a myth?! That story has been going around since the beginning of time!! I've told it myself many times. I had no idea it was just a myth!! Funny.

:haha: I was kind of disappointed myself when I first went up there. 33rd floor is just small dorm rooms with a circuit hallway layout. 32nd floor has kitchens, a common room, and a couple more dorm rooms.

[Wishblade]

:haha: I was kind of disappointed myself when I first went up there. 33rd floor is just small dorm rooms with a circuit hallway layout. 32nd floor has kitchens, a common room, and a couple more dorm rooms.

Gah, I really was hoping it was true. I wonder where the story originated? lol

[Keith P.]

:haha: I was kind of disappointed myself when I first went up there. 33rd floor is just small dorm rooms with a circuit hallway layout. 32nd floor has kitchens, a common room, and a couple more dorm rooms.


Well, it wouldn't have originally been designed that way since it was supposed to be a luxury apartment building. I suppose the pool could have been in the plans and maybe even partly built when the unfinished structure was bought by Dal, and they could have had it finished the way you describe. Who knows, maybe there are structural parts of the pool buried underneath the finishes.

[Jonovision]

Holy Crap!!!!! There's no pool!!!! I've been telling that story for years. I guess it is now one of the biggest urban myths in Halifax.

[hfx_chris]

:haha: I was kind of disappointed myself when I first went up there. 33rd floor is just small dorm rooms with a circuit hallway layout. 32nd floor has kitchens, a common room, and a couple more dorm rooms.

If there are dorm rooms on those floors, how in the name of hell did the pool rumour ever even get off the ground?

[alps]

Well, it wouldn't have originally been designed that way since it was supposed to be a luxury apartment building. I suppose the pool could have been in the plans and maybe even partly built when the unfinished structure was bought by Dal, and they could have had it finished the way you describe. Who knows, maybe there are structural parts of the pool buried underneath the finishes.
Maybe, though the elevator/stairway core is smack in the middle of the structure, the pool would have to bunched against one end or the other. However, I could see the 32nd floor patios tying in with that nicely, and I think there'd be enough room... :shrug:

We have to hunt down the architect and solve this once and for all!

[Dmajackson]

Dal dropping Fenwick as student residence

By BILL POWER Business Reporter
Thu. May 7 - 4:46 AM
Fenwick Place is about to be deleted from Dalhousie University’s list of available student residences.

However, the potential new owner of the complex — Halifax-based Templeton Properties Ltd. — is accepting lease applications.

"The building is open for potential tenants from Dalhousie but also to the entire community, including students from other institutions, professionals and families," Joe Metlege, vice-president at Templeton Properties, said Wednesday.

An estimated 400 occupants of the 33-floor structure in Halifax’s south end who are students at Dalhousie have received notice to be out of the building by June 14, if not before, as the university proceeds with the sale.

The status of some professional services operating in the building owned by Dalhousie since 1973 was unclear.

The university and Templeton Properties are in the final stages of a possible sale, but have not yet closed the deal.

"After June 14, the building will cease operating as a Dalhousie University student residence," university spokesman Charles Crosby said Wednesday.

He said negotiations on the purchase are continuing and an announcement can be expected soon.

The bottom line is that Fenwick Place is approaching the end of its tenure as an official Dalhousie residence.

This situation did not put any additional strain on the university’s available dormitory-style student residence space, as most students at Fenwick were mature students — some with families — who were more interested in apartment-style accommodation, said Mr. Crosby.

Templeton Properties has indicated some renovations will be done if the sale goes through. Final decisions on the extent of the renovations and the potential timeline of the work have not been made.

"It is an exciting urban location and obviously there are many possibilities," said Mr. Metlege.

Fenwick Place is currently listed on the Templeton Properties website, with rents for bachelor apartments averaging $730, one-bedroom units averaging about $900, and two-bedroom units available in the $1,200-range. There are also some furnished units available.

Fenwick Place is the tallest building in Halifax and residents experienced some disruption after hurricane Juan hit in 2003. Most of the tenants spent a night in the basement of the building.

Contrary to an urban myth, there was never a swimming pool at the top of the building that was closed out of safety concerns. Mr. Crosby said there was never any factual basis to the story that a pool was emptied because it forced the building to sway in heavy winds. He said the pool never existed.

[Jonovision]

This article gives me the impression that the big reclad might not happen. But then again the reporting in the Herald has been so bad lately. Who really knows?!

[someone123]

I don't think you should read too much into what's not included in Herald articles. :)

[Dmajackson]

I don't think you should read too much into what's not included in Herald articles. :)

The article looked remarkably similar to another one made a couple of months back. :sly:

I just put it up to stimilate conversation ... not for news. :P

[someone123]

At least they've gone a little further toward dispelling the swimming pool myth. :haha:

[kph06]

The fact that it will be rented leads me to believe it won't be under renovation this year. I believe in an earlier article they said the planned renovations would take about 2 years. One possibility is they will run at half capacity, renting one half for a year and renovating the other half, then switch over for the second year. Having a large building like that sitting idle for two years is a pricey investment.

[Takeo]

The fact that it will be rented leads me to believe it won't be under renovation this year. I believe in an earlier article they said the planned renovations would take about 2 years. One possibility is they will run at half capacity, renting one half for a year and renovating the other half, then switch over for the second year. Having a large building like that sitting idle for two years is a pricey investment.

Wouldn't that be tricky however when it comes time to renovate the second half? They've have to get everybody out. Anyway... whatever they do... I hope they do something major with the grounds. It's such a horrible space surrounding the building now.

[Jonovision]

And with this being Templeton Properties I doubt we will hear anything until it is about to happen.

[kph06]

Wouldn't that be tricky however when it comes time to renovate the second half? They've have to get everybody out. Anyway... whatever they do... I hope they do something major with the grounds. It's such a horrible space surrounding the building now.

Yeah, it wouldn't be ideal for the tenants, I was kinda thinking out loud there. I just figured if they did it that way they could only offer a year lease then everyone would be out for the second half.

[Jonovision]

I was curious so I went into the rental office yesterday. They have already started their renovations with an full reno of the entrance floor. I was told that the facade renovation will be taking place over the next year while people are living in the building. Still not sure what they are doing to it, but I'm gonna go back in later this week and see if I can dig anything up.

[DigitalNinja]

Awesome, thanks for the info Jono.

[miesh111]

The building is nearly full now from what I've been hearing. I also know that the developer has been meeting with architects and engineers nearly daily, and that the plans for what they want to do with it (unit configuration, type of clading, etc etc) change as often as the weather around here. We'll just have to wait and see whats going to go down.

In other news, another Templeton Property, King Andrew Tower, is converting to condo's...

[Jonovision]

I was speaking with the developer today and he is hosting an invite only community workshop regarding the redevelopment of the site. He wants to put as much density as he can on the surrounding lots so he has the income to totally remake Fenwick Tower itself.

[worldlyhaligonian]

I was speaking with the developer today and he is hosting an invite only community workshop regarding the redevelopment of the site. He wants to put as much density as he can on the surrounding lots so he has the income to totally remake Fenwick Tower itself.

Nice, so is this implying new towers in the area?

My ideal scenario would see the crummy 2 or 3 story building next door and the Workers Compensation building both replaced with a tower that is taller than the St. James and shorter than Fenwick. There would be a real wall up South Street which would meet up quite well with South Park and its towers!

[Jonovision]

He has some concepts himself, involving a small office building around the size of the St James and another large condo/apartment tower in the range of 23-30 storeys with at grade retail passing through the site. But he also wants to get an idea of what the community wants on the site. The more density he can build the more options he has in refurbishing Fenwick Tower.

And for all those wondering, this was the "big secret" that I had a while ago.

[sdm]

He has some concepts himself, involving a small office building around the size of the St James and another large condo/apartment tower in the range of 23-30 storeys with at grade retail passing through the site. But he also wants to get an idea of what the community wants on the site. The more density he can build the more options he has in refurbishing Fenwick Tower.

And for all those wondering, this was the "big secret" that I had a while ago.

He will never get a approval for that many stories, not in a millon years. The residents in that area after St James Place was approved got a moition passed to not allow anything higher then 70 feet.

[terrynorthend]

He has some concepts himself, involving a small office building around the size of the St James and another large condo/apartment tower in the range of 23-30 storeys with at grade retail passing through the site. But he also wants to get an idea of what the community wants on the site. The more density he can build the more options he has in refurbishing Fenwick Tower.

And for all those wondering, this was the "big secret" that I had a while ago.

Ah HA! Sounds ambitious...

...but I fear great opposition here. St. James ran into many hurdles before eventually being whittled down to the 10 story lump it is now. I believe HRM by design excludes a new 23-30 story building in this area (south-end has pretty low height caps if I remember). Add to this the developers' promise to get community input, normally a good thing, but there are a lot of tired and angry people around Fenwick right now, after a year of open pit mining on their street. Three to five more years of noisy, dirty, large scale construction is gonna fly like a lead balloon, IMO. :(

[Takeo]

He will never get a approval for that many stories, not in a millon years.

Yup. That area probably has the highest concentration of NIMBY's in the entire city and as has already been mentioned... St. James dragged on for years before it got approved.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Yup. That area probably has the highest concentration of NIMBY's in the entire city and as has already been mentioned... St. James dragged on for years before it got approved.

Yeah, given the average age of the NIMBY's, lets hope that some of them aren't around to kick up a stink.

[Barrington south]

so he needs to build up wards of a 30 story tower to pay for the upgrades for Fenwick?




yeah that tall tower doesn't stand an ice cube's chance in hell, even if the 70 foot limit did not exist


didn't The James take over 10 years to get approval?

but I'm all for developing the site to the max



I would love for him to make the site the biggest success as possible.....

[Jonovision]

I definitely think he has a lot of work ahead of him. We shall see how it all turns out. Either way, I'm very excited about the possibilities!

[someone123]

The residents in that area after St James Place was approved got a moition passed to not allow anything higher then 70 feet.

This is one of the more obvious problems with the way the municipal government works.. that is a totally one-sided motion passed before the current owner of the property was even around.

I similarly disliked the motion to limit development of the lot behind that building on Barrington to townhouses. Midrise is perfectly reasonable there and there was no input from developers in terms of what is preferred or what is economically feasible.

[sdm]

This is one of the more obvious problems with the way the municipal government works.. that is a totally one-sided motion passed before the current owner of the property was even around.

I similarly disliked the motion to limit development of the lot behind that building on Barrington to townhouses. Midrise is perfectly reasonable there and there was no input from developers in terms of what is preferred or what is economically feasible.

Yes, as a person in the industry it is frustrating to say the least. Both your points are well said.

Makes you wonder how anything got built around here higher then 2 stories in the past.

[Jonovision]

I attended two workshops this week regarding the redevelopment of Fenwick. They were a very positive experience. I was amazed at the cooperation between residents, heritage people, and everyone else who was there. A Lot of good ideas were played with and Templeton said they would come back in 5 or 6 weeks with a concept plan for the site.

And for just to let you guys know. This is the entire redevelopment site.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/45204/2584640310096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2584640310096709958wGAkYO)

[fenwick16]

I attended two workshops this week regarding the redevelopment of Fenwick. They were a very positive experience. I was amazed at the cooperation between residents, heritage people, and everyone else who was there. A Lot of good ideas were played with and Templeton said they would come back in 5 or 6 weeks with a concept plan for the site.


Have you seen any renderings of the new exterior cladding for this building? Even if they just replace the precast cement on the balconies with glass railings it would make a big difference. Maybe they could also paint the exterior with a durable white paint.

[Takeo]

Have you seen any renderings of the new exterior cladding for this building? Even if they just replace the precast cement on the balconies with glass railings it would make a big difference. Maybe they could also paint the exterior with a durable white paint.

Painting concrete always feels wrong to me. It looks good for the first couple of years... and then it goes thru phases of looking bad... cheap... dirty... peeling. I'd say leave the concrete and just clean it.

[worldlyhaligonian]

That site plan is pretty big... I would like to see a tower to the west of it, where the little apartment building and the Worker's Compensation Board are.

[someone123]

That whole area needs an overhaul. I'd like to see the Sobeys site redeveloped into a nicer grocery store with apartments on top. The strip malls similarly should become lowrise buildings built up to the street with underground parking. Population densities are already fairly high around there and the potential exists for lots of infill without touching anything but ugly strip malls and parking lots.

I could see Queen Street becoming more commercial in the future with development around Fenwick and the Infirmary site, plus some modifications to that stretch across from the cemetery (along the lines of what exists at the corner of Queen and Fenwick). It would be a great extension to the downtown/Spring Garden area and would give that part of the city more of a local identity.

[sdm]

I attended two workshops this week regarding the redevelopment of Fenwick. They were a very positive experience. I was amazed at the cooperation between residents, heritage people, and everyone else who was there. A Lot of good ideas were played with and Templeton said they would come back in 5 or 6 weeks with a concept plan for the site.

And for just to let you guys know. This is the entire redevelopment site.

http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/45204/2584640310096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2584640310096709958wGAkYO)

the vacant lot on the north east corner is the only true development site.

the north west corner there is an underground brook, and if memory serves me correct back int he 60's a large sink hole happened on south street out front of St james place.

Besides that, the structrual capacity of the existing podium would need to be significantly upgraded to take the bearing capacity of additional building.

[Jonovision]

There was lots of talk about how to reclad Fenwick. But nothing has been decided. Some mentioned painting, some mentioned panels similar to those installed on the Hospital lately, and others mentioned class or precast. It really could go in many directions.

The general consensus of the plan I think would see the podium extended out into the south east corner with a building of around 10 storeys on top. An addition of townhouses along Fenwick that would set back into the tower. And a larger building, or multiple small buildings on the South Street lot. I also think the podium will become more public space. Probably indoors however with units facing out onto it.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

The general consensus of the plan I think would see the podium extended out into the south east corner with a building of around 10 storeys on top. An addition of townhouses along Fenwick that would set back into the tower. And a larger building, or multiple small buildings on the South Street lot. I also think the podium will become more public space. Probably indoors however with units facing out onto it.

Intriguing for sure. I like the sounds of it, potentially a good mix of low to mid-rise buildings and a significant intensification of the site. Just clarification on the public space, are you describing some sort of an interior courtyard?

[Jonovision]

That seemed to be the idea. And interior courtyard that would surround the tower at its base.

[fenwick16]

This has been formally announced in the Chronicle Herald ( http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/9014119.html ). With a price tag of about 100 million, this has grown in to a major project. Here are a few paragraphs from the article:

Reno plans coming for Fenwick eyesore

By ROGER TAYLOR
Wed. Nov 18 - 7:17 AM

.
.
.

“There’s going to be an expan­sion of the Fenwick Tower.

There’s going to be two other buildings on the site, one at about 10 or 11 storeys and an­other at about eight or nine storeys. And there is also going to be a lot of boutique, village­style . . . shops and a passage­way making a South Street­Fenwick connection," says Metlege.

Templeton Properties has hired Michael von Hausen of

MVH Urban Planning and Design Inc. in Vancouver, a specialist in sensitive land development planning, sustainable urban design, group facilitation and community par tnerships, to work on the project.

Metlege says a Vancouver architectural firm has also been hired to work on the project.

It’s hard to put a price tag on it, but Metlege expects the en­tire project will cost more than $100 million when it is finished.

“It’s a fairly large develop­ment. We’re going to be adding to it with the addition to the existing tower, we’re going to be completely redesigning the building, changing the entire look of it completely," he says.

The outside will be entirely re-clad, gutted inside and mod­ernized, he says.

“Basically all we’re keeping is the concrete structure, every­thing else we’re tearing out."

Templeton bought the 274-unit building completely empty. After some renovations were completed, it brought in new tenants and it is now about 93 per cent occupied, says Met­lege. Most of the exterior work can be done while the tenants are still in place.

If it takes a month to take off the old skin of the building and then one month each to put a new skin on each floor, he says, it would mean the building would be vacant for 34 months.

“There is going to be a good period of time where the ten­ants will still be in the building, but once we get into the interior gutting of the building we’ll most likely gut five or seven floors at a time. So we’ll vacate those floors, do the work and then go to the next seven floors, and we’ll move those tenants into the newly renovated units."

A public viewing of the plans are scheduled for Thursday:

There’s going to be a public unveiling Thursday at 6:30 p.m.

at Fenwick Tower, 5599 Fenwick St., where anyone who wants to look will have an opportunity to see the plans

Will anyone be able to get some pictures or renderings from the public viewing?

[Jonovision]

I was at the sneak peak last night and this is a stunning project! Joe said he might be able to send me some of the pics and renderings today so I could post them otherwise they will be made available on thursday with a larger press release.

After all the renovations are done the tower will be entirely new. Unrecognizable from the concrete monolith it is now. They are adding a 36 foot addition on to the South side of the tower in order to make it more economical as well as to add a new stair well to meet better fire codes. The entire tower will be clad in glass and the mass of it will be broken up by different treatments of the facade. There will be a nice roof line that will be lit at night. The addition actually only goes up to the 24th floor with a large landscaped area on its roof that could become a restaurant or some sort of public viewing deck providing views out to the harbour. The Muse as they are calling it, or pedestrian mall that runs through the site looks very nice. Entirely lined with Boutiques, restaurants and amenities for the neighbourhood. And there will also be 10% affordable housing within the entire development.
He is also hoping to start the formal planning process with the city by the end of the year.

I encourage everyone to go out on Thursday night to see the plans and here from Metledge. You won't be sorry!!!!

I'll post more when I get the info.

[beyeas]

I encourage everyone to go out on Thursday night to see the plans and here from Metledge. You won't be sorry!!!!

I'll post more when I get the info.

Short of UG Towers starting... this is the best news for Halifax that I could have imagined. There is no way in hell that we are going to get a tower this tall built in Hali any time soon, so to have this one redone and in combination with a larger complex is just amazing. If this comes out as good as it seems from jonovisions description, then this one stands a real chance of putting a scare into the Heritage Trust folks, because people are going to see what a real classy high density development can do for an area.

[Phalanx]

I won't be able to go and see the public viewing, but I'm really looking forward to seeing the pictures now...

Sounds like the absolute best case scenario for Fenwick.

[someone123]

Yes, this sounds like a great project. Can't wait for the renderings.

Is Joe Metledge still working on the Trinity project or is that on hold until after Fenwick?

[fenwick16]

I was at the sneak peak last night and this is a stunning project! Joe said he might be able to send me some of the pics and renderings today so I could post them otherwise they will be made available on thursday with a larger press release.

After all the renovations are done the tower will be entirely new. Unrecognizable from the concrete monolith it is now. They are adding a 36 foot addition on to the South side of the tower in order to make it more economical as well as to add a new stair well to meet better fire codes. The entire tower will be clad in glass and the mass of it will be broken up by different treatments of the facade. There will be a nice roof line that will be lit at night. The addition actually only goes up to the 24th floor with a large landscaped area on its roof that could become a restaurant or some sort of public viewing deck providing views out to the harbour. The Muse as they are calling it, or pedestrian mall that runs through the site looks very nice. Entirely lined with Boutiques, restaurants and amenities for the neighbourhood. And there will also be 10% affordable housing within the entire development.
He is also hoping to start the formal planning process with the city by the end of the year.

I encourage everyone to go out on Thursday night to see the plans and here from Metledge. You won't be sorry!!!!

I'll post more when I get the info.

Thank you for all the information. The top couple of floors were mostly vacant in the past, I wonder what will become of that area.

I am looking forward to seeing the renderings.

[Jonovision]

So here is what you have all been waiting for!
Also please join the facebook group and post a comment to help back this project up. The name of the group is Vision for Fenwick Tower.

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/34719/2750925980096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2750925980096709958KIKnDD)

http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/32132/2638022720096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2638022720096709958eleRWn)

http://inlinethumb07.webshots.com/10438/2505624110096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2505624110096709958pfZWDM)

http://inlinethumb06.webshots.com/11589/2299138120096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2299138120096709958poMzrn)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/26269/2838948880096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2838948880096709958evuYHb)

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/46272/2199946540096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2199946540096709958DBUjpO)

http://inlinethumb36.webshots.com/42915/2524438380096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2524438380096709958KltgkT)

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/44681/2182527900096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2182527900096709958HREbBr)

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/2929/2913462170096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2913462170096709958ErDbZw)

And on a side note, can an admin move this to the downtown construction section.

[worldlyhaligonian]

:worship:


I can't even put a sentence together right now... the future is coming! Its been a good week for development in Halifax.

[alps]

Thanks so much for uploading those, Jonovision - wow. I'll definitely make it out tomorrow night. This totally exceeded my expectations; I love the pedestrian mall and it looks like the density will be there to support it :worship:

[Phalanx]

Looks great. :)

What's more - if this goes ahead as planned then it should effectively remove the 'Fenwick monster' from the anti-development/anti-height crowd's arsenal.

[fenwick16]

This exceeded my expectations. I felt that it would be great if they simply added glass to the building. This is so much more. They actually plan to make it into an iconic building.

Are they adding to the height? Do you know if the financing is in place so that they can proceed?

[Keith P.]

I am rapidly becoming tired of those arc-shaped rooftop additions.

Not at all sure what I am looking at with those sketches.

[kph06]

Definately a huge inprovement, although I have to say I think its strange the way the arched shape roof is facing. You'd think the dominant side would be looking out to the ocean. Unless of course they think the Heritage Trust would have less oppostion if it was facing Citadel Hill instead of having its back to it.

[kwajo]

Wow, I never thought I'd see the day that Fenwick would get rejuvenated or even see investment put into it of any kind. I do love the pseudo-brutalist look it has currently, but I can see these refurbishments making it a lot more popular and integral with the community than it has ever been in the past.

[hfx_chris]

What's with that retarded roof design I keep seeing these days...

[Jonovision]

Definately a huge inprovement, although I have to say I think its strange the way the arched shape roof is facing. You'd think the dominant side would be looking out to the ocean. Unless of course they think the Heritage Trust would have less oppostion if it was facing Citadel Hill instead of having its back to it.

The reason it faces that way is because there is an addition being constructed of 36 feet on the Fenwick street side in order to add units, but also to add an important second stairwell in the tower. And they decided not to bring this addition up to the full height to allow for the landscaped possibly public area on the roof, thus making the roof curve up towards the city.

[Jonovision]

This exceeded my expectations. I felt that it would be great if they simply added glass to the building. This is so much more. They actually plan to make it into an iconic building.

Are they adding to the height? Do you know if the financing is in place so that they can proceed?

They are adding the addition up to the 24th floor, but as far as I know there is no height addition. Perhaps a small bit to construct the new roof line, but nothing too serious.

As far as financing goes I'm not sure. I know they are hoping to keep the momentum going and get the application in by year end and start construction as soon as its approved. It will be done in phases. Most likely with the first addition being the 8-10 storey building on the interior of the site. Followed by the Fenwick side of the pedestrian mall. Then the town houses and tower addition and reclad and the final piece would be the South Street building and pedestrian area.

[sdm]

Isn't the area under a 70 foot height restriction? as well i thought council changed the MPS to not allow greater height even with a development agreement? Could be wrong, but thought that was the case after the St James Place hearings.

Renderings look great, very nice upgrade to the building. A bit ambitious i will admit with the retail aspect of the building, but see how it goes.

[Dmajackson]

WOW! JUST WOW! :worship:

That'll improve the look of the entire city and bring us into the 21st Century!

[Keith P.]

It would be interesting to learn what the Metleges plan to do to address the significant structural problems in the basement caused by water. When Dal owned it there were apparently many millions required to shore the thing up.

[q12]

That looks nice!

With the trillium and and the new fenwick that block of town is going to start looking pretty good. We'll have to rename South Park Street to Park Avenue (NYC). :haha:

[Halifax Hillbilly]

It's bold, I like the overall look and how much of the site they are using. They appear to be paying close attention to how the site interacts with surrounding streets. It will be a transformative project if Joe Mettledge can make it happen.

My only complaint is similar to Keith's - it's not clear exactly what each rendering is showing. At this stage I imagine they're still quite conceptual though. The roof might be a bit cliched but I don't think there's too many like that in Halifax. I think it would only be a problem if they were all over the City and monotonous.

[Takeo]

Went to the open house tonight and took a few higher resolution shots. To orient yourself... the townhouses are on Fenwick St. The arc over the mechanical penthouse faces South Park St.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2727/4118827708_796450046a_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2700/4118057641_528d79399b_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2506/4118827102_e4b1a37207_b.jpg

And finally... and interesting little early thumbnail sketch... which is actually a tiny detail on a much bigger board. There were a ton of boards and many of them were somewhat repetitive... so I didn't shoot them all. But I shot the most representative ones.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2741/4118826802_25c6bbe038_b.jpg

[Takeo]

The Fenwick side is very interesting. I was speaking with one of the architects tonight. She was pretty excited about the project. So on the Fenwick side, the idea is to open things up. Right now that entire face is mostly a blank concrete wall. So the idea is to build the tower out from that side so that it can be opened up with glass and those units can take advantage of their south facing views and elevation. Can you imagine the original architect designing the street-facing... and also south-facing wall... as a blank concrete wall? Urgh.

Also, the townhouses (which were marked up as work/live spaces) create a nice urban street wall. They also create a nice stepped effect to break up the elevation. So the building goes up... and in... and then up... and in again. Very nice.

The arc at the top is mostly just an aesthetic element right now. It would cover the current mechanical penthouse and would be lit up at night. It does not add any appreciable height to the tower at all.

I believe she also said that the South Park side could have extended balconies. But there's not much they can do on that side because of it's proximity to St. James Place. The longer balconies would help to break up the verticals however.

Also, speaking to someone from Templeton... the pedestrian area would be only partially covered. All of the businesses would have large glass awnings. This makes sense to me. Sure... we have winter... but I think the space would die if it were an indoor space.

I saw a few of the usual suspects in the short time that I was there... well-known NIMBY's. But for the most part... people seemed pretty excited. Wasn't really a big crowd... maybe a dozen or two at a time. But I was there right at the tail end.

BTW... the architect I spoke with works with Michael Napier. They are actually teamed up with the Vancouver firm. Makes sense. You'd want a local firm involved. And the Vancouver firm brings the experience of large scale projects to the table. But they are both equal partners in the design. According to the people I talked to anyway. Napier's office is doing some good stuff lately.

One last detail I almost forgot was the idea of adding a huge atrium roof on the west side of the building. I think the Templeton guy mentioned this. Something about bringing more light into that ground floor area. Currently this is a big concrete pad covering the parkade with just a few concrete shed dormers.

On the subject of structure and "swaying" and urban myths... a good point that the Templeton guy made was... first... there are no structural issues... that they would not have bought it if there were... and that they hired engineers of do due diligence... and second... that the new cladding would make the building exponentially lighter and thus stronger. A curtain wall does nothing structurally. It's just a curtain. The strength of Fenwick comes from the internal sheer walls. So changing the curtain wall from thick concrete slabs to glass would actually make the building stronger since it wouldn't be supporting as much weight.

Oh... while I was talking to the designer from Napier's office... I mentioned how much I love the brick they chose for the Kaye St. project. She couldn't agree more!! Very nice product. A brand new Shaw product apparently... and NOT cheap. But worth it. Funny though... she said that Jerry B. called and was perturbed by the colour... he asked "So is that the final brick?". WTH?!?! No Jerry... we just figured we'd lay and point a mile of brick worth umpteen thousands of dollars just so we could see how it would look. Then we figured we'd tear it down and replace it with cheap red brick". In the immortal words of Bugs Bunny... "what a maroon"!! Just for the record... I'm a Northender... and I didn't vote for the guy.

[fenwick16]

This looks great. Will they be able to get a permit based on conceptual drawings or will they need the final drawings in order to get permits? Right now a lot seems to conceptual so I wonder how much of it will be in the final design. How is Templeton's record with other projects around Halifax?

[someone123]

I think this is pretty much perfect for the site. The biggest problem with Fenwick is that it's sitting in the middle of a bombed-out looking concrete pit.

I love the idea of opening up the centre of the block to pedestrians and I think retail would work very well in that area. There are lots of residents so there is demand for neighbourhood-type stores and maybe a few other things. The whole Fenwick/Queen area could be turned into a neighbourhood centre for the South End - it's already got a grocery store and some other stuff.

I think I'll start a new project thread for this and then people can repost images. This thread is quite old and many of the early posts are speculative.

[someone123]

New thread here: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4568798