[LSPDX]

This is my first post and I'm sure I'll take some heat for it. How many of you have caught yourself thinking, What if the John Ross or the 3720 were in Downtown?? I love the South Waterfront as much as anyone on Portland forum. However, I've been wondering what would the towers look like if they were mixed in with Goosehollow, the Westside by where the Cyan is going up, the Pearl District or maybe in Oldtown/Chinatown so they could fill in the gap between Big Pink and the rest of Downtown.

[PacificNW]

A lot of people on this forum have expressed the same thoughts, so you're not alone. Welcome to the forum. :cheers:

[nwroots]

They would look great downtown, especially if they were built on some of the existing parking lots. I have to say that I really love that Portland has developed three different and distinct skylines! I wouldn't have it any other way.

[LSPDX]

Thanks. I tried looking through most of the threads so I didnt repost, :shrug: oh well.
I have to admit, even tho I wonder what Downtown would look like with those towers in the mix, I still wonder what SOWA will look like when its built up & out more. nwroots, I couldn't agree more, having 3 unique skylines is part of what makes Portland visually appealing. Plus watching them fill in makes it worth wild.

[IHEARTPDX]

It would be nice to see a photoshopped mock-up of the existing and proposed towers in SoWa located downtown...

[nwroots]

SPDX- Between our two avatars we have almost all of Portland's downtown skyline covered. Great choice.

[urbanlife]

Actually it is more like 4 skylines now. Lloyd, Pearl, Downtown, SoWa. I like all the different skylines we have here, but I would definitely love to see the towers that are going up in SoWa start to go in throughout downtown too.

[LSPDX]

I always thought because of their location, that the Pearl and Downtown morphed into one skyline. Just my 2 cents. But I understand why some people would think they were 2 different skylines.

[joeplayer1989]

the lloyd just needs twice its height, it would look sweet as hell

[urbanlife]

I always thought because of their location, that the Pearl and Downtown morphed into one skyline. Just my 2 cents. But I understand why some people would think they were 2 different skylines.

The Pearl is classified as an inner city neighborhood. That is why I consider it to be another skyline. It is really cool to go to N Interstate and look across to see the Pearl District's skyline, knowing 10 years ago, none of that was there.

[pdxdash]

Is it just me or does anyone else find the architecture of SoWa to be depressingly sterile, dark and heavy? Despite being mostly glass, the adjectives light and transparent don't seem to apply to these new highrises. I think they're too big (moreso girth than heigth) for their riverbank location, the glass is too dark, and the non-grid placement of buildings - intended to create more vistas - does little to breakup their combined mass - at least from I-5 and the Ross Island Bridge. And what's up with that tan/terra cotta color accent on so many of the buildings? On the upside, I do think the SoWa buildings would be good additions to the downtown skyline.

[PacificNW]

I am definitely not a fan of the over use of the "tan/terra cotta color" accents which seem to be so popular in todays architecture. It will definitely "date" these towers to a particular period in time. I think SoWa could use more variety in height, though. It could use a few more taller than the current 320' as well as shorter. A few more "skinny" towers could also help break up the mass, IMO.

[urbanizer405]

For glass buildings, I think future high-rises in the Downtown area should try to have the more "brighter" look of condo towers along False Creek up in Vancouver, Canada.

And I really think some new towers (taller and more modern) are needed in the central downtown area. I was in Portland recently, and there are many areas that are simply.......ghetto. I never realized there were so many crackheads in downtown, especially near the Rite Aid along the transit mall. Maybe if some new high-rise, modern, mixed-use towers were constructed, it might give some more, positive life into the central Downtown area.

[PacificNW]

"ghetto/crackheads"? Reminds me of the 2nd Avenue areas of Pine and Pike in Seattle...right, urbanizer405?

[urbanizer405]

"ghetto/crackheads"? Reminds me of the 2nd Avenue areas of Pine and Pike in Seattle...right, urbanizer405?

You got me there :D , or Pioneer Square...

[downtownpdx]

there are many areas that are simply.......ghetto. I never realized there were so many crackheads in downtown, especially near the Rite Aid along the transit mall. Maybe if some new high-rise, modern, mixed-use towers were constructed, it might give some more, positive life into the central Downtown area.

I would agree the Rite Aid area attracts its share of street kids, although "ghetto" is a pretty strong word for that area.

I would love to see more mixed-use towers in the central core, too, but there's a lot of positive development wrapping up soon that will revitalize this area:

Renovated transit mall - new light rail line, new artwork, brick pavers, new transit shelters, better lighting, etc.; luxury hotel opening across the street from Rite Aid; Marriot Courtyard opening 3 blocks away on 6th; three major storefront facelifts on 5th/6th within 2 blocks, including possible renovation of the Rite Aid; new hotel starting construction soon at Alder & Park. This is activity just within 3 blocks of Rite Aid, so new towers or not, I think this area will be just fine.

[pdxdash]

I believe one of the reasons such shady characters congregate around the Downtown Rite-Aid and a block or two west is that there is a drug treatment center located there on Alder Street.

[urbanlife]

actually it has more to do with the high number of people that go into that Rite-Aid. It is a great place to ask for change.

[Okstate]

Is the downtown Rite-Aid commonly known by many as an area of "streetkids"? When I was there I saw maybe 5-10 sketchy people in the area...definitely not dangerous looking though. I guess what i'm saying is if this is as bad as it gets in downtown Portland (excluding OTCT) then there is very very little to be concerned with.

[bvpcvm]

^ basically, yes, from rite aid down to pioneer square. and up morrison, across from the galleria. oh, and in front of the library. but that's about it. if you ignore them, or just politely decline to contribute, they're not a problem.

[IHEARTPDX]

Renovated transit mall - new light rail line, new artwork, brick pavers, new transit shelters, better lighting, etc.; luxury hotel opening across the street from Rite Aid; Marriot Courtyard opening 3 blocks away on 6th; three major storefront facelifts on 5th/6th within 2 blocks, including possible renovation of the Rite Aid; new hotel starting construction soon at Alder & Park. This is activity just within 3 blocks of Rite Aid, so new towers or not, I think this area will be just fine.

These changes will definitely make a difference in atmosphere, but any lasting transformation could only occur if there is an investment in the area by residents who live in the area. Until we get a few residential towers in and around "Fright aid" and pioneer square, the area will (IMHO) continue to be a place where people come to work, stay at a hotel, shop and then leave. It's the "leaving" part that needs to be remedied.

[alexjon]

I love Fright-Aid

Yolanda is the best cashier EVER

[downtownpdx]

These changes will definitely make a difference in atmosphere, but any lasting transformation could only occur if there is an investment in the area by residents who live in the area. Until we get a few residential towers in and around "Fright aid" and pioneer square, the area will (IMHO) continue to be a place where people come to work, stay at a hotel, shop and then leave. It's the "leaving" part that needs to be remedied.

I totally agree, although the additional foot traffic can't hurt, with more hotel guests walking around at night for dinner, shopping, etc. I think if we want to see residential in this part of town, (and we are, actually, pretty nearby with Park Avenue West and the ZGF tower), the city has to make public investments to make the area more attractive in the first place.

Prettier streets don't solve the problem of homelessness, of course, but the combined public/private redevelopment occurring will get the ball rolling for revitalization. I saw a recent letter to the editor in The Oregonian by a guy from San Francisco, remarking how both cities have highly visible homeless populations, but it feels more noticeable here because the streets aren't as busy. The city has to continue making downtown a vital place with 24/7 street activity, and I think it's making good progress with the new transit mall and the accompanying storefront renovations, landscaping, etc. Sometimes the private investment won't happen w/o public projects laying the groundwork.

[tworivers]

*bump*

Is anyone here capable of modeling what downtown might look today like if the SOWA towers had been magically planted on some of our surface parking lots instead of where they are now?

I've been wondering more and more about this lately... about whether or not building residential towers down there (condos in particular being a risky-ish proposition in and of themselves) was a mistake, and how big a mistake it might turn out to be depending on our obviously uncertain future. What if the city had negotiated some sort of similarly-complex deal with the Goodmans to incent them to build residential towers on some of their land downtown?

Here's my thinking:

1. If the towers were downtown, they might have relieved some of the recession's damage on DT retailers. The closer large concentrations of people live to retail and cultural institutions, the greater the possible synergy.

2. The infrastructure costs would have been minimal, seeing as the roads, sidewalks, parks, sewers are already in place.

3. Overbuilding so much residential space in SOWA has, presumably, reduced development pressure downtown, possibly for years. Exactly what you wouldn't want to do if you wanted to increase the pressure to develop all of DT's lifeless vacant/parking lots, not to even mention the garages.

4. The condos/apts themselves, being right downtown, might have lost less of their value in the recession simply due to their proximity, vs. the liability of their current location and lack of services and access.

5. Everyone, including me, complains that Portland lacks the 24-7 buzz that "bigger" cities have. To my mind, if we had used the great 2000-2008 building boom to focus (via creative private-public partnership, just like SOWA) residential tower-building in the central city, we'd be buzzier downtown to a tangible degree. I would add that if the Fire Station 1 deal had gone through and if Randy Leonard hadn't killed the Oak Tower, those projects also would have added more people-commerce-culture energy and bustle downtown...

6. Lastly, just from an aesthetic and urban-fabric perspective, it strikes me as odd that a city with so many surface lots in its central core, as well as very low residential density (the thing that makes cities like SF seem so vibrant) and such high aspirations, would expend so much energy to build the density where we did. Our urban core should have, and easily could have, absorbed, and been made richer, by all that development south of the Ross Island Bridge.

Just some questions I've been throwing around in my head. But I'd love to see a rendering of what DT PDX would have looked like with those nice contemporary residential towers sprinkled around...

[Okstate]

^Most of the residents in SoWa moved there b/c it was NOT in downtown. The downtown residential market IMO was/is not affected much by SoWa as they are two completely different types of lifestyle. This district may not have the buzz we'd wished for but when it comes to adding people to the downtown periphery I am all for it. I agree with some other forumers on here that Portland had too much Vancouver envy when forming their vision of SoWa. More than likely this type of development in Portland will slow to a crawl for decades to come. I personally think Portland is most comfortable with density in the form of the Northwest district. Vacancies are always relatively low there.

Having said all that...I too would love to see a photoshopped "SoWa in Downtown" picture!

[MR. Cosmopolitan]

Large condominiums in Downtown would be excellent. But I don't think that there are enough residents in the PDX that are willing to live in this kind of environment presently.

I think that it would be a good idea to encourage the more successful medium density development (eg. Mississippi) in large magnitudes around the downtown as well; this would take more people out of the suburbs and bring more life to the downtown streets.

Maybe doing this would increase the interest of more people to live on the downtown itself.