[Westsidelife]

Where's Our Central Park? (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-davies20-2008jun20,0,7491972.story)

Putting a 'lid' over the 101 Freeway could give L.A. the gathering place it needs.

By Vaughan Davies
June 20, 2008

Great cities have great urban parks. Central Park in New York, Millennium Park in Chicago, Washington's Mall. They are magnets for the key ingredients that make a successful city center: housing and hotels, shops and cafes, museums and concert halls, public festivals and recreation from active sports to leisurely strolling. They provide breathing room amid the civic bustle; they open up the densest cityscapes; they signify the heart of the heart of their hometowns.

Unfortunately, Los Angeles -- a great city by most definitions -- has no important downtown park. Griffith Park meets many needs, but it's not in the center of the city. The Cornfield, north of Chinatown, is also removed from the action (and mostly not off the drawing board). The public space that links downtown's civic center buildings may get a polish as part of the Grand Avenue project, but it's tucked away, hemmed in by government buildings. None of these alone is the great, open-air city gathering place that L.A. needs.

It is time for something bold and visionary.

More than 100 acres of potential downtown urban parkland are hiding in plain sight. The site -- which is passed by tens of thousands of people every day -- is close to all the new transit lines that converge on downtown. Building a park there would not require hundreds of Angelenos to be relocated or dozens of buildings to be demolished. And the money to pay for it is available now from a variety of sources, both public and private.

Where is this potential park? On top of the "Big Trench" -- that unsightly two-thirds of a mile of the 101 Freeway, just east of the 110 interchange between Grand Avenue and Alameda Street -- that brutally slices through the historic heart of Los Angeles. The Big Trench separates some of our most prized and appealing landmarks -- Olvera Street, Chinatown and Union Station on one side; Disney Hall, the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels and City Hall on the other -- creating isolated pockets of activity rather than what we need: a livable, walkable and unified downtown district.

All we have to do is put a "lid" over the Big Trench and its exit ramps and acquire nearby parking lots and underutilized land next to the freeway, turning an urban eyesore into a 100-acre urban park and knitting the core of downtown together again.

If we build it, the Grand Avenue arts corridor would end at a magnificent park, not a freeway no man's land. Angelenos could walk from Union Station through a park to their jobs at Civic Center or to weekend events on Bunker Hill, not trudge across intimidating bridges above the roar of freeway traffic.

Students at the $200-million performing arts high school, which is nearing completion -- without playing fields -- next to the freeway at Grand Avenue would have outdoor recreation space at their doorstep. Chinatown would gain a great "front door," and the long-proposed Latino Cultural Center could become one of the park's great destinations. Surrounding property values would get a boost.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who frequently speaks about the need for more urban parks, gets a Central Park footsteps from City Hall.

Can it be done? Decking over the Big Trench and constructing a park on the "lid" is a relatively straightforward engineering enterprise. Other cities have built parks on top of freeways. In Manhattan, the 15-acre Carl Schultz Park and Gracie Mansion (the mayor's official residence) have been sitting atop the East River Drive expressway for 50 years. Seattle opened its 5-acre Freeway Park atop Interstate 5 in 1976. A similar scheme is being discussed in Hollywood, also over the 101 Freeway.

Funding for such public projects is always a challenge, but money sources are available. Because the freeway could be streamlined and improved as part of the project, state infrastructure funding, provided by Propositions 1A and 1B, could be tapped. Property owners who would benefit from a new park could contribute to a fund for this open space as part of new development agreements. Fees for environmental "mitigation" programs at the Port of Los Angeles and similar initiatives could be put to use. And finally, the patchwork of funds available to Caltrans and other agencies for landscaping, sidewalks and the like could be marshaled to support a major new park.

The first major step in creating the Big Trench park is happening now. Twenty-five urban design students from across the country are in town for a two-week workshop, a design "charrette" whose aim is to analyze the Big Trench site, identify challenges to covering it and making a park, suggest ways to overcome those challenges and present a design approach. The best of their work will be unveiled at 5 p.m. at the Caltrans building's plaza, across 1st Street from City Hall, on June 27, with the cooperation of Caltrans, the Los Angeles Planning Department, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency, the Southern California Assn. of Governments, City Council members and the mayor's office.

Imagine what today's New York would be like without Central Park. Now envision what downtown L.A. could become if we convert the Big Trench dead zone into our own downtown park reflecting the city's great and boundless aspirations. Better yet, come to the Caltrans headquarters next Friday and see how what you imagine might actually take shape.

[Westsidelife]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2616613119_e001f3a4da.jpg?v=0
Phase III of the project would cap the park with a pair of
"iconic gateway structures."

International Interns Present Plan for Park 101 (http://www.blogdowntown.com/2008/06/3424-international-interns-present-plan-for-park)

By Eric Richardson
June 27, 2008

DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES — A team of twenty-four interns from EDAW (http://www.edaw.com/) presented their vision for a sprawling park atop the 101 freeway this afternoon before a standing-room only crowd at the Caltrans Building's Broad Plaza. The unveiling capped two weeks of work for the students, drawn from eight different countries and a number of disciplines.

Their proposal focused not just on idea, but also on creating something buildable. Their plan presented a three-phased development, starting with the core cap and new mixed-use development and finishing with an iconic tower that would be the tallest in the west.

The team first created six concepts for what a park over the section of the 101 passed through Downtown might entail. They then took concepts from each to form a coherent, site-specific vision.

Phase one of the project would create the main freeway cap, running from Alameda west to Broadway. It would also frame the edges of the park with streets and new mixed-use development. Phase two would extend east from Alameda and further into the fabric of the area adjacent to the park. The final phase would deck west, reaching above Grand Avenue and culminating with a pair of "iconic gateway structures."

The team estimates that phase one of the project would cost $700 million, but that in return it would generate $4.75 billion in economic benefit and $20 million in annual property tax revenues.

The city and Caltrans officials who worked with the program afterward spoke highly of the concepts, and of their value for Downtown.

SEE ALSO: Freeway Cap Parks a Great Idea, but Not a New One (http://blogdowntown.com/2008/01/3029-freeway-cap-parks-a-great-idea-but-not-a)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3069/2616610677_ba2f643328.jpg
The capped park winds its way through Downtown.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3174/2616610009_7d83545f47.jpg
Westbound traffic enters the freeway under the cap as the Gold Line passes overhead.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3137/2616609435_b7109f2ea6.jpg
White buildings in the park model represent new development.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/2616611299_5d6acfcac5.jpg
Steps would connect the Performing Arts school at Ft. Moore to the rest of Downtown.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2617434286_e3474bf578.jpg
The EDAW interns introduce themselves to the crowd.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2616612623_d5930f16ae.jpg
A standing room only crowd listens to the park presentation.

[Westsidelife]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3034/2617298063_9e3f4300a4_b.jpg
From Flickr, by fridayinla

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2617296605_5fe5e84099_b.jpg
From Flickr, by fridayinla

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/2617295019_70850de105_b.jpg
From Flickr, by fridayinla

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3257/2617293355_ff1bc9f3fc_b.jpg
From Flickr, by fridayinla

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3021/2617292357_cd6308173b_b.jpg
From Flickr, by fridayinla

[JDRCRASH]

Yup, i've been reading about this for a while, and I think they should build it!

[dktshb]

Other than connecting all downtown mass transit I can't think of a more important project. It would be nice it the proposed trolly connected to the park as well.

[Westsidelife]

‘Park 101' Vision Downtown’s Next Big Thing (http://www.angelenic.com/780/park-101-vision-downtowns-next-big-thing/#more-780)

By Stephen Friday
June 29, 2008

A grand proposal to cap Downtown’s half-mile stretch of the 101 Freeway was publicly presented at the Caltrans Headquarters on Friday to a large audience of government officials, area stakeholders and curious residents.

Dubbed simply ‘Park 101’, the vision was formulated by 24 summer interns of EDAW (http://www.edaw.com/), one of the world’s leading design firms. The company’s highly-acclaimed intern program, in its twenty-eighth year, brings together students from all over the world to address issues of regional or international significance — in this case, a progressive urban planning concept adapted to the unique needs of inner city Los Angeles.

Through site visits, discussions with state and local officials, EDAW staff and other design professionals participated with the students as a team to explore possible solutions to reconnect two halves of Downtown severed by the construction of the 101 Freeway.

Built in 1950, the eight-lane highway (and its tentacles of on/off ramps) is responsible for fragmenting many original city streets and creating a pedestrian barrier between Downtown’s landmark attractions throughout the historic centers of El Pueblo and Chinatown to the north and the districts of Bunker Hill and Civic Center to the south.

The primary objective of the Park 101 project is to reclaim approximately 100 acres of land from Alameda to Grand (east and west) and Temple to Cesar Chavez (north and south), and relink the community both physically and mentally by shifting the focus away from the automobile.

Not Just a “Cap”

In explaining their design process, each of EDAW interns (some of which have never been to Los Angeles, or the United States) took turns during the presentation to touch on personal inspirations ranging from traditional European models to contemporary American examples such as Chicago’s Millennium Park and Atlanta’s Centennial Olympic Park.

Connectivity, pedestrian detail, land use optimization, sensitivity to context, and “wow factor” are all cited as driving forces behind the design. The final product is much more than a “cap” or a park - it’s an iconic embodiment of 21st-century Los Angeles; a statement of what this city, famous for its mis-guided affinity with the automobile, can become.

In addition to creating a large amount green space atop the “Big Trench (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-davies20-2008jun20,0,6116846.story),” the Park 101 scope includes 1.9 million square-foot of mix-use development with 2,000 new residential units, office space, a grocery store and other retail, amphitheater, and a series of “grand gateway structures” anchoring the west end — one which is described as the tallest skyscraper on the West Coast.

Park 101 is also intended to integrate with the LA River Revitalization Project, create a gateway for Chinatown, and supplement Grand Avenue’s “architecture row,” while diversifying land use in an area currently dominated by civic structures.

It’s essentially a magic bullet for everything wrong with this region of Downtown today — another “lump sum fix” becoming increasingly popular in the continued reinvention of Downtown, first seen in the 1950s with the ambitious Bunker Hill redevelopment project.

Making It All Happen

Planners and designers behind Park 101 propose a three-phase implementation, the first of which is estimated to cost approximately $700 million and would include the foundation infrastructure and major park component. All mixed-use buildings and signature towers (appearing white in the photos of the model above) would follow in later phases.

The team of presenters argue that hundreds of millions of dollars produced by increased property values and taxes from the subsequent formation of “new real estate” could offset the costs of construction.

Basically, the project would pay for itself, while generating over 5,000 long-term jobs.

Sound to good to be true? It always is.

Taking what we’ve learned from the Grand Avenue Project fiasco — can it be done within the next 10 years?

[Marrson]

Where's Our Central Park? (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-davies20-2008jun20,0,7491972.story)

Putting a 'lid' over the 101 Freeway could give L.A. the gathering place it needs.

By Vaughan Davies
June 20, 2008

Great cities have great urban parks. Central Park in New York, Millennium Park in Chicago, Washington's Mall. They are magnets for the key ingredients that make a successful city center: housing and hotels, shops and cafes, museums and concert halls, public festivals and recreation from active sports to leisurely strolling. They provide breathing room amid the civic bustle; they open up the densest cityscapes; they signify the heart of the heart of their hometowns.

Unfortunately, Los Angeles -- a great city by most definitions -- has no important downtown park. Griffith Park meets many needs, but it's not in the center of the city. The Cornfield, north of Chinatown, is also removed from the action (and mostly not off the drawing board). The public space that links downtown's civic center buildings may get a polish as part of the Grand Avenue project, but it's tucked away, hemmed in by government buildings. None of these alone is the great, open-air city gathering place that L.A. needs.

It is time for something bold and visionary.

More than 100 acres of potential downtown urban parkland are hiding in plain sight. The site -- which is passed by tens of thousands of people every day -- is close to all the new transit lines that converge on downtown. Building a park there would not require hundreds of Angelenos to be relocated or dozens of buildings to be demolished. And the money to pay for it is available now from a variety of sources, both public and private.

Where is this potential park? On top of the "Big Trench" -- that unsightly two-thirds of a mile of the 101 Freeway, just east of the 110 interchange between Grand Avenue and Alameda Street -- that brutally slices through the historic heart of Los Angeles. The Big Trench separates some of our most prized and appealing landmarks -- Olvera Street, Chinatown and Union Station on one side; Disney Hall, the Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels and City Hall on the other -- creating isolated pockets of activity rather than what we need: a livable, walkable and unified downtown district.

All we have to do is put a "lid" over the Big Trench and its exit ramps and acquire nearby parking lots and underutilized land next to the freeway, turning an urban eyesore into a 100-acre urban park and knitting the core of downtown together again.

If we build it, the Grand Avenue arts corridor would end at a magnificent park, not a freeway no man's land. Angelenos could walk from Union Station through a park to their jobs at Civic Center or to weekend events on Bunker Hill, not trudge across intimidating bridges above the roar of freeway traffic.

Students at the $200-million performing arts high school, which is nearing completion -- without playing fields -- next to the freeway at Grand Avenue would have outdoor recreation space at their doorstep. Chinatown would gain a great "front door," and the long-proposed Latino Cultural Center could become one of the park's great destinations. Surrounding property values would get a boost.

Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa, who frequently speaks about the need for more urban parks, gets a Central Park footsteps from City Hall.

Can it be done? Decking over the Big Trench and constructing a park on the "lid" is a relatively straightforward engineering enterprise. Other cities have built parks on top of freeways. In Manhattan, the 15-acre Carl Schultz Park and Gracie Mansion (the mayor's official residence) have been sitting atop the East River Drive expressway for 50 years. Seattle opened its 5-acre Freeway Park atop Interstate 5 in 1976. A similar scheme is being discussed in Hollywood, also over the 101 Freeway.

Funding for such public projects is always a challenge, but money sources are available. Because the freeway could be streamlined and improved as part of the project, state infrastructure funding, provided by Propositions 1A and 1B, could be tapped. Property owners who would benefit from a new park could contribute to a fund for this open space as part of new development agreements. Fees for environmental "mitigation" programs at the Port of Los Angeles and similar initiatives could be put to use. And finally, the patchwork of funds available to Caltrans and other agencies for landscaping, sidewalks and the like could be marshaled to support a major new park.

The first major step in creating the Big Trench park is happening now. Twenty-five urban design students from across the country are in town for a two-week workshop, a design "charrette" whose aim is to analyze the Big Trench site, identify challenges to covering it and making a park, suggest ways to overcome those challenges and present a design approach. The best of their work will be unveiled at 5 p.m. at the Caltrans building's plaza, across 1st Street from City Hall, on June 27, with the cooperation of Caltrans, the Los Angeles Planning Department, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, the Community Redevelopment Agency, the Southern California Assn. of Governments, City Council members and the mayor's office.

Imagine what today's New York would be like without Central Park. Now envision what downtown L.A. could become if we convert the Big Trench dead zone into our own downtown park reflecting the city's great and boundless aspirations. Better yet, come to the Caltrans headquarters next Friday and see how what you imagine might actually take shape.

An Awesome Vision, Indeed!!!:tup: I touch & Agree with you about the significance this park can make. Thanks! Westsidelife! I salute the visionaries!:worship: The way DTLA is growing and city as whole, all the dynamics are there. This does not take or need a rocket scientist to concur and understand, what this particular park does for & corelates to the DTLA growth potential. This Park being centrally transportational located, culturally centered, multi-community usage potential & DTLA dire need can be fulfilled with this unique vital green space. Come on L.A. Where's the vision? This A Hit, not a miss! This city has always built iconic stuff: Griffith Park Observatory, The Getty Center, Century City. This park has the potential to tie up the loose ends and become a huge community & tourist drawing card, due to it's Location, Location, Location, This is virtually a blessing for the City of The Angels, along with it's birthplace, The Civic Center, surrounding business, newly created, rebuilt neighborhoods. Just ignite this idea into a reality, will get to the very core of things...This is a multifaceted drawing card.:yes:
I am a transplanted Manhattanite from The Village of Harlem, N.Y.C. Yes, Central Park is still causing positive growth & change in adjacent neighborhoods all of around itself, because of the myriad of neighborhoods that coexist. It's not just the streets & blocks directly next to it, but several blocks from the N.S.E.W. of the park, that also share the growth & cultural connections to C.P. & it's provisions; Metropolitan Museum of Art, 2 Ice skating Ponds, Amphitheatre, Lakes, Zoo. There's Museum of Natural of Natural History next door The Hayden Planetarium, which across the street from C.P.W. There is no comparison, but L.A. has a chance to increase it's green spaces. Bryant Park, 42 St. & 5th Ave. in N.Y.C. does not affect it's huge big brother to the north, nor doe's Morningside Park(Smaller), 1 block away in Harlem @ it's C.P. NW border, Marcus Garvey Park, several blocks from C.P. on northern 5th Ave in Central Harlem. All these with there proximities, they just have there own unique characters & functions, plus the way people utilize them. Each of these Manhattan Parks have wonderful lush landscapes along with their unique geography & topography, when space permits ballfields, etc.:boogy:
Our California Creativity can change "The Big Trench 101" nightmare into a wonderfully transformed artistic landscaping phenomenon. Giving DTLA a new life & blood transfusion, a very urban renewal treasure trove for Los Angeles' City Masterplanning. Challenges like this bring about more positive changes. Let's give Los Angeles a Heart Transplant, it will do whole city good.:banana:
I Thank 25 Interns for Having A Grand & Needed Useful Vision.:thankyouthankyou:

[Tanster]

This park needs to get built. It would do L.A much good then bad. For some reason I feel like there will be lots of problems and stuff trying to get it off the ground. or drawing boards. I dont know but if it gets built L.A would be something else.

[Bernd]

One of the nicest things about driving through downtown (or being stuck in downtown traffic) is seeing the beautiful blue sky sliced by the lovely buildings along the freeway. With this proposal, that drive is now in the dark. Find another place for this park.

[Carioca]

One of the nicest things about driving through downtown (or being stuck in downtown traffic) is seeing the beautiful blue sky sliced by the lovely buildings along the freeway. With this proposal, that drive is now in the dark. Find another place for this park.

I'm sorry, but putting the needs of drivers on one minute worth of freeway, over the needs of pedestrians, residents, local merchants, students,the environment, etc. are what got us into this mess in the first place. This park is not only a no brainer for me, but I think it should be the future of as much freeway as possible. When was the last time you visited a city and said, 'it's nice, but there was just too much park land, too much green space...' ?????

[Carioca]

One of the nicest things about driving through downtown (or being stuck in downtown traffic) is seeing the beautiful blue sky sliced by the lovely buildings along the freeway. With this proposal, that drive is now in the dark. Find another place for this park.

I'm sorry, but putting the needs of drivers on one minute worth of freeway, over the needs of pedestrians, residents, local merchants, students,the environment, etc. are what got us into this mess in the first place. This park is not only a no brainer for me, but I think it should be the future of as much freeway as possible. When was the last time you visited a city and said, 'it's nice, but there was just too much park land, too much green space...' ?????

(altho, you may have been joking...)

[LosAngelesBeauty]

One of the nicest things about driving through downtown (or being stuck in downtown traffic) is seeing the beautiful blue sky sliced by the lovely buildings along the freeway. With this proposal, that drive is now in the dark. Find another place for this park.


Putting the needs of pedestrians in the back seat to drivers for the sole reason of allowing drivers to have natural light as opposed to artificial light is ridiculous.

Look at it this way:

1) If the freeway cap and proposed park is completed, it would change the entire image of LA. The completely disconnected northern portion of Downtown (El Pueblo, Chinatown, Union Station, etc.) would finally meld seamlessly together with the Civic Center, creating wonderful green space and a place for all people (including visitors from all parts of the world) to enjoy LA as a pedestrian.

2) Leaving the freeway uncapped would maintain the status quo, which is undoubtedly for LA a reputation of a city plagued by traffic and no regard for the pedestrian. The built environment has been criticized again and again by people who live here and visit here. To those who think like you, I say, "Suck it up, you have plenty of freeway to view the beautiful sky. Capping literally a small portion of it relative to the entire length won't be noticed by the majority of people."


I agree with Carioca that you are probably just being sarcastic, but the above statements are geared toward anyone who actually really thinks like that.

[northbay]

One of the nicest things about driving through downtown (or being stuck in downtown traffic) is seeing the beautiful blue sky sliced by the lovely buildings along the freeway. With this proposal, that drive is now in the dark. Find another place for this park.

ur seriously saying a freeway is more important than a park?

wow :whip:

impressive plan, hope it comes to fruition

[ozone]

You can put this proposal in the visionary or un-built fantasy category -because that's where it will stay. What is most amazing to me is that twenty-four interns spent the time to do this and nobody said -"Hey we're wasting our time?" ...and soo many people showed up to see their ideas and take them serious.

[jamesinclair]

You can put this proposal in the visionary or un-built fantasy category -because that's where it will stay. What is most amazing to me is that twenty-four interns spent the time to do this and nobody said -"Hey we're wasting our time?" ...and soo many people showed up to see their ideas and take them serious.

Because it is a serious idea?

As the article said, other cities are doing things like this.

It's a little bit like the Big Dig, but lucky for LA, the freeway is already lowered, and decking over it isnt as expensive.

Another Boston example: Boston University has plans for a park over a freeway which cuts through the campus to further unify it.

[POLA]

Now this is what Burnham meant when he said make no little plans! Sad that it's not going to happen!

[ozone]

Look I'm all for covering over freeways and adding more urban park/open space. I just honestly do not believe this proposal will go anywhere. In this case I doubt that the value of doing such a thing offsets the cost of it -at least in most people's mind. Yes other cities are doing these things but as you know Los Angeles has never been other cities.

[Westsidelife]

Yes other cities are doing these things but as you know Los Angeles has never been other cities.

:rolleyes:

[ocman]

How many multimillion/billion dollar mega park projects does LA have? It's getting ridiculous. There's the Cornfield Park, the LA River Project, the Grande Avenue park, the Baldwin Hills park, and now this freeway park. All of them worthy and all of them desperate for money. Considering how so many projects are competing for funding, I'll be surprised if this actually gets off the ground.

Now add the subway to the sea, the maglev to SF/LV, etc..

...and the recession and a useless but well-traveled mayor.

[ozone]

You make a good point. Wouldn't the time, money and energy be better spent on some of the existing proposals -most notably the LA River Project? And how much transportation money would actually have to go into something like this? As mentioned -extending the Metro to Santa Monica seems like a 10000 X more important.

I don't really see why LA needs this park anyway. Yes LA seriously lacks real urban parkland but I don't think this is the way to go.

Can't people think of lots of other places around town that need new public spaces besides downtown?

[LosAngelesBeauty]

The lack of civic identity in LA is directly attributed to the lack of a central focal point/reference point in the urban landscape. The inconsistent and often controversial debate over the "definition of LA" is evidence of that lack of identity. Part of the solution is to create a stronger urban core (being Downtown LA) to give both residents and visitors something to really admire and be proud of.

Also part of the solution is to enhance the mass transit experience, where Downtown LA is the hub (central portion) of the entire regional mass transportation system. All buses and almost all trains eventually lead into Downtown LA. It is absolutely critical to improve Downtown LA's built environment to accommodate more pedestrians. The fact that Union Station is the second busiest transportation center after LAX in the Southern California (and the busiest on the West Coast) warrants further investment from the city to improve access to and from it. The capping of the freeway is not only to provide more parkland, but also connect an area of Downtown LA - being Union Station, Chinatown, El Pueblo - that is currently cut off onto its own island.

It's not just about creating more parkland for JUST Downtown LA. It's about creating high quality urban public spaces that the whole region can use, not just disparate and secluded enclaves with their very own park. We don't want people to remain isolated in just their own communities. We want Downtown LA to become a place that pedestrians from across the region (including visitors from outside SoCal) to come together in one area.

[Carioca]

:previous:

Exactly.

[ozone]

OK great. Well said. Basically I'm saying it'll never be realized. And I'm questioning whether building a large costly (to build AND maintain) park over the freeway the best way to achieve downtown connectivity and the civic coming-togetherness you are talking about. Although I agree that Los Angeles need's a lot of both.

[JDRCRASH]

So should we consider those two supertalls visions, or proposals?

And how tall would they be, anyways?

[StethJeff]

What kind of weight are these freeway-cap parks hypothesized to support? Enough for greenery, basic amenities, and people or something that can support larger constructions?