[Nutterbug]

Is gaining the MLS Sounders but losing the Sonics in the same year a net gain or a net loss for you?

[Aleks]

Hmmm... More of a loss than a gain but both are a little mehh.

[sequoias]

I say it's more of a loss to me. I just don't find soccer attractive.

[Hot Rod]

I agree, it's a loss overall.

I think Vancouver would actually be a better venue for MLS and am surprised we got a team before you guys.

I honestly think Seattle is a two sport city. We're just not really defined by major league sports (not in the same way as NY, Chicago, LA, SF and Boston) are. But that's just me.

[mSeattle]

It might be a gain for international sports, and the metro's growing int'l population.

[James Bond Agent 007]

Neutral for me. Not really a big fan of either sport.

Having an NHL team might be interesting.

[Nutterbug]

Look to the bright side. You've just rid yourselves of a bunch of felons.

I assume the MLS players don't have records as big.

[Fiat Lux]

Look to the bright side. You've just rid yourselves of a bunch of felons.




Like who? Soccer is a thug sports across the pond BTW.

The loss of the Sonics is a major blackeye for Seattle that the MLS can never come close to making up. Nickels has failed us. He better work off his double chins the next year and a half getting a replacement Sonics.

[Nutterbug]

^ I don't get this. Since when are civic leaders held to blame for the decisions of private organizations, such as pro sports franchises and leagues? I thought not giving into blackmail was looked upon favourably by the electorate.

Anyways, I think the odds of Sounders fans going on a violent rampage anytime soon is slim to none.

[Fiat Lux]

^ I don't get this. Since when are civic leaders held to blame for the decisions of private organizations, such as pro sports franchises and leagues?

Key Arena isn't private. Wednesday was regarding the lease between lessor (city of Seattle) and leasee (Okie scumbags).

I thought not giving into blackmail was looked upon favourably by the electorate.

Blackmail? We had the Okies nuts in a vice grip and the inept mayor sold us short. We got screwed! Nickels is an idiot.

Anyways, I think the odds of Sounders fans going on a violent rampage anytime soon is slim to none.

When did Sonics fans (or players for that matter) go on a Bertuzzi like rampage?

[Fiat Lux]

I think Vancouver would actually be a better venue for MLS and am surprised we got a team before you guys.

No venue in Vancouver. In a few months, Seattle will be leading the MLS in season ticket holders.

I honestly think Seattle is a two sport city.

Nonsense. The Sonics, Seahawks, Mariners, and Huskies have all had great fan support. Sonics were the first NBA franchise to average over 20,000 fans a game and led the NBA in attendance a number of times. Mariners led MLB in total attendance a few years too. Seahawks have sold out a majority of their seasons. Huskies led the Pac-10 in attendance over half of the seasons since the Husky Stadium expansion, despite there being 4 (it was 5 until Stanford Stadium was reduced) larger stadiums. And now we are soon to be #1 in MLS season ticket holders despite no team and no major season ticket campaign. We would also be a great NHL market too.

[Aleks]

Well, if Howard Schultz had never sold the Sonics then this would've never happened. Like I said before, Clay was just in the right place at the right time.

This might backfire once the team moves to Oklahoma. Not as much attendance as predicted. Maybe the first few months but because of all the excitement.

At least having more open dates on the Key Arena means they might rent it out to larger concerts which can sell out more often than Sonic games. The hard part is finding people who will actually make events sell out.

[Nutterbug]

When did Sonics fans (or players for that matter) go on a Bertuzzi like rampage?

I admit, my assumption was based mostly on reputation, and some documented evidence, such as this...

http://www.amazon.com/Out-Bounds-Inside-Culture-Violence/dp/0060726024

Based on a first-of-its-kind investigation into the criminal histories of 177 NBA players from the 2001#150;2002 season, Out of Bounds shows that an alarming four out of every ten NBA players have a police record involving a serious crime. They are All-Stars and they are journeymen, involved in crimes ranging from armed robbery to domestic violence to gun possession to rape.

Out of Bounds takes a hard look at shocking cases, with graphic accounts of physical and sexual violence and other outrageous conduct by players. In all, more than 250 people are named, including many prominent NBA players. It exposes the environment and culture that encourages such criminal behavior. It also explains the unique challenges these cases pose for law-enforcement agencies and prosecutors. And Out of Bounds takes readers inside the hidden yet critically vital role that lawyers, agents, and fame play in insulating criminally accused players from accountability.

If the Sonics had a clean roster, good for them. My apologies if I'd jumped the gun and made any false accusations. Though it would be a statistical anomaly and a surprising contrast to the team just down the road who've presumably earned themselves the nickname "Jail Blazers" for a reason.

[Fiat Lux]

If the Sonics had a clean roster, good for them. My apologies if I'd jumped the gun and made any false accusations. Though it would be a statistical anomaly and a surprising contrast to the team just down the road who've presumably earned themselves the nickname "Jail Blazers" for a reason.

Jail Blazers era has been over for awhile. They are pretty squeeky clean now too.

NFL has had the worst problems (Mike Vick). But they also have the most teams, the most players, and the most turnover.

[seaskyfan]

I thought not giving into blackmail was looked upon favourably by the electorate.


Absolutely true. There was a ballot measure in 2006 (Initiative 91) that mandated that the City not subsidize sports teams and their venues. It won with over 74% of the vote.

[Fiat Lux]

Absolutely true. There was a ballot measure in 2006 (Initiative 91) that mandated that the City not subsidize sports teams and their venues. It won with over 74% of the vote.

And what does that have to do with holding the Okie weasels to the lease? Even CFMIT suported holding the liars from Tornado country to the lease. Where was the blackmail?

[PacificNW]

I think the NBA will probably do fine in O.C. If the league realigns O.C. , Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and New Orleans probably would become rivals. I will miss the Sonics but I am confident the Blazers will even become more popular. As far as an NHL team in Seattle it won't happen until a new arena is built. (15,000-20,000 seats for hockey. The NHL ice arena is larger than a NBA arena floor so the Key is presently too small for the NHL.) If, and when that happens, the NBA probably gets first tibs as a tenant. If Paul Allen would wise up and let an NHL team play alongside the Blazers @ the Garden Portland will probably get NHL before Seattle. BTW, when it was announced that Bennett had purchased the Sonics I was the first on this forum who stated they would end up in O.C. even though Bennett stated they were looking at new arena possibilities in the Seattle area. This is one of those times I wished I hadn't been right. For the time being the Blazers are the team of the Northwest. They should have a great season! But don't even think about stealing our Blazers!

[Nutterbug]

Key Arena isn't private. Wednesday was regarding the lease between lessor (city of Seattle) and leasee (Okie scumbags).

Ideally, though, the city wouldn't be in the business of renting venues to private organizations at cut-rate prices in the first place.

[Ted Lyons]

No venue in Vancouver. In a few months, Seattle will be leading the MLS in season ticket holders.

Nonsense. The Sonics, Seahawks, Mariners, and Huskies have all had great fan support. Sonics were the first NBA franchise to average over 20,000 fans a game and led the NBA in attendance a number of times. Mariners led MLB in total attendance a few years too. Seahawks have sold out a majority of their seasons. Huskies led the Pac-10 in attendance over half of the seasons since the Husky Stadium expansion, despite there being 4 (it was 5 until Stanford Stadium was reduced) larger stadiums. And now we are soon to be #1 in MLS season ticket holders despite no team and no major season ticket campaign. We would also be a great NHL market too.

First, there should be a neutral option. Losing a professional sports team is never a "gain" even when offset by the introduction of a new team.

Second, as Fiat Lux said above, the Sounders are proving that Seattle isn't a "two sport town." With the strong possibility that the Sounders sell at least 20,000 season tickets this year, they'll have sold more season tickets this year than the Sonics ever have, (by default because Qwest is a larger venue than Key Arena), albeit at lower prices.

Also, assuming that interest in the team continues into future years, it's very possible the team could maintain an average attendance of more than 20,000 people per match. Considering the fact that the Mariners have only averaged between 30,000 and 35,000 per game, (I know baseball has a much longer season), 20,000 for the Sounders is pretty solid.

In a best case scenario where the Sounders are as popular in Seattle as Toronto FC is in Toronto, the Sounders could average almost 30,000 people per match, (around 27,000 to be exact due to seating limitations in Qwest), and, in my opinion, would be well on their way to establishing themselves as a major player in the region's professional sports market.

[towerguy3]

Don't the Thunderbirds move to a new arena in Kent this fall?

Does that not leave the Key without any tenants now?

[Fiat Lux]

Ideally, though, the city wouldn't be in the business of renting venues to private organizations at cut-rate prices in the first place.

It wasn't. Key Arena had a good lease for the city, another reason why the Okies wanted out.

[Fiat Lux]

Don't the Thunderbirds move to a new arena in Kent this fall?

January I think. They will play at the Key this fall.

Does that not leave the Key without any tenants now?

WNBA Storm will still call the Key home. Also, Seattle University is returning to D1 and they are talking about playing games there.

[towerguy3]

yep here it is, the Kent arena holds 6000; the Key holds 10,000 (FOR HOCKEY only) but they never fill it (understandably)

and keep in mind that for Seattle to get an expansion NHL team, they must have an arena that holds minimum 16,000 seats as that is a requirement of an NHL expansion franchise (much like it was a requirement for Vancouver to garner 15,000 season ticket deposits before the NBA Grizzlies could come here in 1995)

http://www.seattlethunderbirds.com/kec/about.php

[Fiat Lux]

There is an arena effort on going, but the current proposal is not NHL viable, yet. The current plan is to rip apart Key Arena, but keep the bowl, which is too small for hockey.

From yesterday's Seattle Times:

That proposed renovation, however, would not turn KeyArena into an NHL-ready venue. For major-league hockey, the inner bowl would have to be significantly reconfigured.

Griffin said his group hasn't "spent much time talking about the NHL, although we've spent some time."

"For me, personally, I think it's something worth looking at. Never say never."



Matt Griffin is one of the four people along with the CEOs of Microsoft and Costco that want to buy a team and bring the NBA back to Seattle.

[Tacoma Boy]

Good riddance to the crybaby Sonics. Hell, they can take the good-for-nothing Mariners to OKC with them.

And before anyone calls me a "fairweather fan", let me just point out that I'm a no-weather fan.
I don't like pro sports, and our region will be better off without them.

OKC can take the Seahawks too... a 3-for-1 deal!

[Fiat Lux]

Poor taste dancing on Sonics grave dude. Very poor taste. Losing them was as hard as losing a grandparent.

If you do not like the Mariners or Seahawks, why don't you leave?

[Tacoma Boy]

Poor taste dancing on Sonics grave dude. Very poor taste. Losing them was as hard as losing a grandparent.

If you do not like the Mariners or Seahawks, why don't you leave?

Losing them only matters to some, there are those who would rather not have their taxes go to the teams. I moved from not caring to disliking back in the late 90s when the State made everyone pay for the Kingdome... just to tear it down. Poor taste on the part of the state.
I'm sorry if you all think so highly of them, I do not intend to insult those who are fans, but I will not hide my disdain for pro sports. They do not care about the fans; the ticket prices, concession prices and crying for the city (thus the taxpayers) that their stadium isn't "nice enough" is proof alone that they could care less.

And besides, why should I have to leave the place I was born? Should you leave if, for example, disliked Microsoft? The teams are no more than just a franchise, just another business.
Most folks wouldn't cry if Real Networks left town, hell I'm fairly certain even smaller employers have more employees than the pro sports teams do.

[Fiat Lux]

If you are not a sports fan, you wouldn't understand. Think of an important, close loved one being murdered. That is what it is like.

[Tacoma Boy]

If you are not a sports fan, you wouldn't understand. Think of an important, close loved one being murdered. That is what it is like.

You are right, I don't get it. I just can't equate an over-charging business with a loved one.
But cheer up, at some point another team will come in and fill that gap... look at history, teams have been doing this kind of stuff since the beginning.

[PacificNW]

I would not equate losing a pro team to losing a loved relative....that's a little much, in my opinion. I am a huge fan of sports teams..I think they are a plus to the community.

[Nutterbug]

You are right, I don't get it. I just can't equate an over-charging business with a loved one.

Pro sports, children--they both rob you blind. :D

[PacificNW]

⇡⇡⇡ Now, that's funny...

[Okstate]

What the heck! I'm moving from Oklahoma to Oregon hoping to see some NW rivalry at the rose garden and they go & do this? Can't wait to hear the Sonics'reaction to OKC. The dialogue will go something like "ummmm....so what exactly is there to do around here for fun..." :) Oh well. I will say this about OKC though. They WILL fill up their arena & be towards to top of the attendance charts. Sports and Oklahoma go hand in hand. OU fills over 80,000 seats every football game and OSU fills nearly 14,000 seats for every single basketball game. Plus the (former) Sonics will draft some local flavor as they did when the NO Hornets were in town with Desmond Mason (OSU Alum which coincidentally has a pad in Portland as well) There are tons of OU/OSU alums playing in the NBA right now.

[alexjon]

People underestimate us NBA fans.

I *hate* the Sonics with the passion of a million suns, but that's because they're not the Spurs. I do, however, love the NBA and I do love going to games even if two sucky teams (teams that are not the spurs) are playing.

I love this game!

[Complex01]

I will miss the NBA in Seattle. Hopefully one day it will be back...

[PacificNW]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3560276&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines


Associated Press
Updated: August 29, 2008, 8:11 PM ET

SEATTLE -- Former Seattle SuperSonics owner Howard Schultz says he's dropping his lawsuit against new team owner Clay Bennett, ending an attempt to regain ownership of the team that has moved to Oklahoma City.

The Starbucks Corp. CEO filed a motion for dismissal Friday in federal court in Seattle.

In a letter to former members of his ownership group. Schultz says two recent rulings in his lawsuit have convinced him it's unlikely to succeed.

Schultz also says the city of Seattle's settlement with Bennett, allowing the Sonics to move to Oklahoma City in time for the 2008-09 season, hampered his case.

Schultz sold the team to Bennett's ownership group in 2006 for $350 million.

Last April, Schultz sued to regain ownership, contending Bennett failed to carry through on a promise to negotiate in good faith for a new arena in Seattle for one full year. Bennett has always called the suit "baseless."

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press





The Portland TrailBlazers! Representing the "whole Pacific Northwest!"

[Aleks]

They left already. I just want a tornado to rip through their new stadium one day. Not during a game though so nobody gets hurt. And when they rebuild a new state of the art stadium then they find that it was poorly designed and have to tear it down.

[PacificNW]

You know, Aleks....we do have TV and the media down here in the backwaters of Oregon....I know they "left already". I just posted this link/story for those who might be interested in following the status of the lawsuit prior to it appearing in print in the Times.... BTW, it isn't funny wishing the destruction that follows a path of a tornado....

[Aleks]

Lol, I didn't mean it like that. Just like a "wow, they left already." I guess I should've put a sad face after that sentence.

[PacificNW]

NP....it is easy to misunderstand posts on the forum.....

[Joeplayer19]

Hey guys it sucks yall lost your nba team. Why not adopt the blazers and help vote 2 get our guys in the all star game at www.nba.com. The trail blazers are the only team left to root for up here, so you might as well....

[BoulderGrad]

Just want to point out that the Sounders are over 18,000 in season ticket sales which would easily fill Key Arena for a Sonics game (and they haven't even played a game yet!).

[alexjon]

Hey guys it sucks yall lost your nba team. Why not adopt the blazers and help vote 2 get our guys in the all star game at www.nba.com. The trail blazers are the only team left to root for up here, so you might as well....

I default back to my hometeam

Go Spurs Go!