[FairHamilton]

...and invest the money in City Hall!!!

That's got my vote. Who else is in?

[Jon Dalton]

Awesome. How about building a list of useless projects that should be axed so they have no excuse for going half-ass on the basics.

[Millstone]

nope

[markbarbera]

I'll take a pass on that. I like the gateway concept.

[raisethehammer]

I agree with Fair Hamilton! All the designs suck and nobody cares about them anyhow.
Use the money to light up the Skyway, Lift Bridge and High Level Bridge. People will remember that more than some stupid 'H' logo with weeds all around it.

http://flickr.com/photos/smileystew/1630271467/
http://flickr.com/photos/smileystew/1630271531/in/photostream/
http://flickr.com/photos/gigapic/2270938546/
http://flickr.com/photos/kmcniece/2597529456/

[matt602]

I'm agreeing with Mark, I like the gateway project. I also like RTH's idea of lighting up bridges. I never thought of it before, but I can't believe it hasn't already been done.

[flar]

Gateways are pointless. If I were putting them in I'd want them at the edge of the Hamilton CMA so it says "Welcome to Metropolitan Hamilton." Put one on the QEW at the beginning of Burlington too. It's time we took ownership of Burlington.

[raisethehammer]

let's put one at the start of the QEW at Hwy 427. "Welcome to Hamilton" That would be awesome!

[Millstone]

let's put one at the start of the QEW at Hwy 427. "Welcome to Hamilton" That would be awesome!

No, that wouldn't make any sense and would be retarded.

I agree with Fair Hamilton! All the designs suck and nobody cares about them anyhow.That's a pretty bold statement. Who did you poll? You are wrong.

[raisethehammer]

geez. lighten up bro. you think I'm serious about a sign at the 427?? get a sense of humour or go back to bed.

As for 'nobody cares about them'. I was referring to people driving along the highway.
I've never, not once, heard of someone visiting a town because of their 'gateway' sign on the highway. Nor does it do anything to a city's image.
A signature piece of architecture, like city hall, does WAY more to enhance a city's image.

[SteelTown]

I would rather have the city invest the signs inside the city, not next to highways. Stuff like I love NY signs, the cool Amsterdam sign inside a park, etc.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/27/52797411_8cabaebc67.jpg

[FairHamilton]

No, that wouldn't make any sense and would be retarded.

That's a pretty bold statement. Who did you poll? You are wrong.

No poll, but lots of comments can be found here: http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/CityandGovernment/CityDepartments/PlanningEcDev/Development/UrbanDesign/CurrentProjects/CivicGatewayDesignStudyComments.htm

Some good, some bad. Personally, I think none of proposed truly encompass the greater points of Hamilton, i.e. waterfalls, Cootes, escarpment, the people - well some of them anyways.... It will be a static sign on the side of the highway.

I particularly like the one about after driving across Canada the best one being in Regina. Try to find a picture of that one on the net, in my quick search on the net I haven't been able, not even on the Regina website (slowest site known to man). If signs are so important how come it's so hard to find the one which one person purports to be the best in Canada.

If they are looking for $3.5M extra to spend on the exterior finishing of City Hall, I say they start with the Gateway Sign.

BTW, it's 2008 isn't using the word 'retarded' considered insensitive, inconsiderate, and politically incorrect?

[BrianE]

Yeah, have to go with FairHamilton on this one. Once that concrete is up there we're stuck with it for the next 50 years. We can build a gateway sign whenever, there's no time limit. Lets put it off for the next 2 -3 or 5 years, there's no rush.

If council really wants to pinch penny's I would be ok with using Limestone instead of Marble. Save a few bucks there, but definitley not concrete, no matter how polished it is.

[raisethehammer]

permanent public art in the harbour/cootes paradise would be better. pretty much anything would be better than one of these idiotic signs.
Regina has the nicest one in Canada eh? I'll have to plan a visit there to check it out. :haha:

[raisethehammer]

that amsterdam sign is awesome.
In fact, I'd love to see this $3.5 million go towards our new public art plan. Make a splash with a bunch of new projects at once.
Again, anything is better than this.....

[highwater]

permanent public art in the harbour/cootes paradise would be better.

I can't agree with you there. Although I love the Urban Moorings Project, I'd hate to see anything manmade made permanent. Cootes is one of the most important wetland restoration projects in the entire great lakes, certainly the most important in Lake Ontario. It needs to be kept natural.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Yes, nothing draws in the tourists like a good sign.

Interesting how many Canadian cities are fascinated by this entry sign thing. Edmonton also has an entry marker competition going on and it's generating a lot of flack for council as well.

Regina would not be my choice to follow for public art. Here' the entry sign
from guidewire on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/guidewired/2692261266/)

Anyone got a link to the Hamilton competition entries?

[astroblaster]

i think we do need to do something to improve the image of the city for people entering from, or passing by on the QEW. (Location 5 http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/08A1461D-E690-45D4-8642-0414634292AE/0/UDCivicGatewaysPanel3Locations.pdf)

we make a horrible first impression from that direction, especially for people who only pass through.

hopefully things will look better then the highway exits are complete, and that awesome bridge is built.

[raisethehammer]

Yes, nothing draws in the tourists like a good sign.

Interesting how many Canadian cities are fascinated by this entry sign thing. Edmonton also has an entry marker competition going on and it's generating a lot of flack for council as well.

Regina would not be my choice to follow for public art. Here' the entry sign
from guidewire on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/guidewired/2692261266/)

Anyone got a link to the Hamilton competition entries?


Haha...that's the best one in Canada???
Geez, what a waste of money.

I hope Edmonton really cranks up the cheese factor by putting up a sign that says 'City of Champions' on it. Lol.

[raisethehammer]

i think we do need to do something to improve the image of the city for people entering from, or passing by on the QEW. (Location 5 http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/08A1461D-E690-45D4-8642-0414634292AE/0/UDCivicGatewaysPanel3Locations.pdf)

we make a horrible first impression from that direction, especially for people who only pass through.

hopefully things will look better then the highway exits are complete, and that awesome bridge is built.

yea, what's up with that bridge?? is it being built??

it's supposed to be lit up at night too. Add in the 3 previous bridges I mentioned along with Bratina's idea for a huge water fountain lit up at night and that would do wonders to enhance the view and vibe heading into the city.
Not some sign stained with bird crap.

[raisethehammer]

hey, so how do we turn this thread into an actual vote?? I've seen polls on here but I don't know how to start them.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Haha. Here's the Edmonton city page on the competition. It shows the winner. Sad that the link to all the entrants appears to be missing.

Edmonton Entrance National Design Competition (http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_0_284_220_0_43/http%3B/CMSServer/COEWeb/infrastructure+planning+and+building/Edmonton+Entrance+Features+National+Design+Competition.htm)

The Regina entry sign is actually alot better than some of the public art around the actual city. Look at this kwality use of public funds in front of city hall. I do like my old hometown, but seriously Regina, stealing other cities' tag lines is not something to be proud of.

courtesy kahnaguy on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kahnaguy07/971965760/)

@raisethehammer: when you're originaly creating the new thread there are some options at the bottom, click the include a poll option and then enter the number of entries. You'll be taken to the poll editing screen when you submit the new thread where you put a caption and label the entries and can set a closing date and public/private voting options (I can see your vote thing.)

[highwater]

The Regina entry sign is actually alot better than some of the public art around the actual city. Look at this kwality use of public funds in front of city hall. I do like my old hometown, but seriously Regina, stealing other cities' tag lines is not something to be proud of.

courtesy kahnaguy on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kahnaguy07/971965760/)

Craptacular!

[astroblaster]

yea, what's up with that bridge?? is it being built??

it's supposed to be lit up at night too. Add in the 3 previous bridges I mentioned along with Bratina's idea for a huge water fountain lit up at night and that would do wonders to enhance the view and vibe heading into the city.
Not some sign stained with bird crap.

i don't know about the time frame, but i was under the impression that some form of pedestrian bridge plan got the green light.

either way, i think we should wait on all the construction in this area to be completed, then we can figure out where to go from there.

[FairHamilton]

Yes, nothing draws in the tourists like a good sign.

Interesting how many Canadian cities are fascinated by this entry sign thing. Edmonton also has an entry marker competition going on and it's generating a lot of flack for council as well.

Regina would not be my choice to follow for public art. Here' the entry sign
from guidewire on flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/guidewired/2692261266/)

Anyone got a link to the Hamilton competition entries?

Here are the Hamilton choices:
http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/cityandgovernment/citydepartments/planningecdev/development/urbandesign/currentprojects/civicgatewaydesignstudy.htm

Thanks for the Regina link, I searched but couldn't find one picture.

I just hope that Regina never builds another tall building, or they'll have to hire a baker to go out with an icing squeezer and squeeze a new skyline....... lol

[flar]

What I really want to know is how come it costs millions to put up a sign

[SteelTown]

Construction for the birdge I believe is suppose to start next year. All the funding is there, thanks to the province.

[raisethehammer]

"how come it costs millions to put up a sign?"

the same reason it costs hundreds of thousands to pay someone to come up with 'reach, dream, rise, shine'.

[SteelTown]

MTO is super picky about signs next to highways.

I believe MTO denied the city to have the arch for the pedestrian bridge over the QEW, instead it'll be over the Red Hill Creek section. Really MTO will only approve a big flat sign next to provincial highways.

[astroblaster]

MTO is super picky about signs next to highways.


for any specific reason? is it a safety thing?

[SteelTown]

Visual distraction I blieve.

[astroblaster]

i guess they wouldn't like my idea for a giant hammer sculpture along the QEW then.

[FairHamilton]

i guess they wouldn't like my idea for a giant hammer sculpture along the QEW then.

I'd like it, but only if it randomly struck down on the roadway on unsuspecting motorists.

[matt602]

What about a giant cup of Tim Hortons with a tiger drinking out of it, sitting on a lunch pail with smoke stacks belching smoke out of them constantly?

... no?

[markbarbera]

No poll, but lots of comments can be found here: http://www.myhamilton.ca/myhamilton/CityandGovernment/CityDepartments/PlanningEcDev/Development/UrbanDesign/CurrentProjects/CivicGatewayDesignStudyComments.htm


Just checked out the results of the public consultations on the gateway project. Of the 91 comments, 19 chose 'none of the above', so 72 liked at least one of the concepts presented. My personal choice, option 4, came out ahead of all the other options with 28 votes in its favour.

I read through the 40-odd comments left behind. There were maybe five comments that expanded on their 'none of the above' choice, which were offering ideas not captured in the four options presented for consideration. One was obviously a flippant comment from a disgruntled resident of Flamborough, but the others offered constructive advice on what they would like to see. None of the comments expressed any kind of opposition to the gateway concept itself.

[raisethehammer]

option 4??? why would you vote for that?? there's nothing. a sign that says hamilton with trees.
At least the high level bridge one has a landmark involved.
If they pick number 4 then it really is a complete waste of money. The blue signs with 'Hamilton' painted on them are just as good. plant some trees behind them.

[markbarbera]

The simple illustration did not do the option full justice. The concept description fully explains the option's qualties:

Option 4
DIVERSE LANDSCAPES
City Name with Local Landscape Background
This design seeks to present a bold and forward looking image
while at the same time recognizing the diversity of the City's
unique local landscapes.

Description of Design
The City name is presented in large bold three dimensional
free standing letters and is identical at all three gateway
locations. The background landscape at each site is to be
different. It is to be a landscape representative of the locality or
siting of each gateway as follows:
QEW at Fifty Road: A small grove of fruit trees arranged in a
grid to recall the orchards that are a typical feature of the local
landscape (represented in the example illustrated here).
403 at Alberton Road: A grove of Sumac a native species with
a distinctive red fall foliage and red berries that can been seen
at the edge of wood lots and along hedgerows throughout the
area.
403 at Highway No.6: Red grasses planted on the hillside
behind the feature blending into the green and brown meadow
grasses that already cover the hill sides in the area.

See the design summary in full here (http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/304543D5-DBEF-448F-9450-286DABC7BCD3/0/UDCivicGatewaysOpt4Landscapes_sm1.pdf).

I like how it announces the city at each gateway using a common lettering, but incorporates natural elements reflective of each specific gateway into the overall design. I am not a fan of the use of the current city logo, because it automatically makes the gateways dated. They will be passe whenever the city logo gets updated. I think the incorporation of a landmark is a bit tacky. Landmarks should be left to make their own individual statement and not be used as a civic branding device. It imprints too specific of a preception of the city.The bold lettering is more timeless, and the bold font standing on its own invokes a confident city that is not afraid to announce itself to the world. It actually is not unlike the signage for Amsterdam posted earlier in this thread.

[highwater]

I'm with you there. I liked no.4 for similar reasons. Plus I'm a native plant nut.

[FairHamilton]

I do not think it matters whether the Gateway Sign was liked or disliked.

I think it is more important to discuss if the city is looking for money to put limestone (a native product I might add) on City Hall (vs. concrete), should they look to other projects to find the money, like Gateway Signs?

I guess the question is; Do you think Gateway Signs trump the professionally recommended architectural finish on City Hall?

[markbarbera]

While I think that City Hall should have the limestone finish as originally planned, I don't think it should be at the expense of the gateway project. Personally, if something had to be sacrificed to justify the cost of limestone, I'd rather they abandon the idea of an ice rink out front of city hall.

[adam]

City hall's limestone should not come at the expense of some other project. There's money to be found/borrowed. The 3.5 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

[raisethehammer]

The simple illustration did not do the option full justice. The concept description fully explains the option's qualties:



See the design summary in full here (http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/304543D5-DBEF-448F-9450-286DABC7BCD3/0/UDCivicGatewaysOpt4Landscapes_sm1.pdf).

I like how it announces the city at each gateway using a common lettering, but incorporates natural elements reflective of each specific gateway into the overall design. I am not a fan of the use of the current city logo, because it automatically makes the gateways dated. They will be passe whenever the city logo gets updated. I think the incorporation of a landmark is a bit tacky. Landmarks should be left to make their own individual statement and not be used as a civic branding device. It imprints too specific of a preception of the city.The bold lettering is more timeless, and the bold font standing on its own invokes a confident city that is not afraid to announce itself to the world. It actually is not unlike the signage for Amsterdam posted earlier in this thread.


hmmm, great response. I appreciate all the detailed info. That does sound interesting in terms of the native plantings.
And I hope you're right about the lettering being bold and attractive.
I still think it's a waste of money though.

[HAMRetrofit]

A minus A does not equal B

[FairHamilton]

City hall's limestone should not come at the expense of some other project. There's money to be found/borrowed. The 3.5 million is peanuts in the grand scheme of things.

Personally, I hate the saying 'grand scheme of things'. It's a statement without measure. What exactly is a scheme?

To put $3.5 million in perspective it's the yearly taxes on 1,250 homes, such as mine. So I guess, one man's peanut is another man's 1,250 homes in Hamilton........

[DHLawrence]

3.5 million for those signs? Why not glue all the dollar bills together and seal them in acrylic and put those at the edge of town so people know where their money went?

[adam]

Personally, I hate the saying 'grand scheme of things'. It's a statement without measure. What exactly is a scheme?

To put $3.5 million in perspective it's the yearly taxes on 1,250 homes, such as mine. So I guess, one man's peanut is another man's 1,250 homes in Hamilton........

The perspective of 1 tax year for a low-end property ($2800) is not the same perspective as the new city hall amortized over its lifetime that represents a city with a population of over half a million. Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about the gateway signs.

[markbarbera]

For clarity I must point out that the cost of the gateways has not been finalized. However, one of the design conditions was to minimize construction and maintenance costs. Rest assured when the final cost is presented to council later this year it will be a fraction of the 3.5 million the limestone for city hall will cost.

For an additional cost impact perspective, 3.5 million spread over 180000 Hamilton households equals a little under 20 bucks per household. For half the cost of a single cup of coffee per week per household, we could have limestone and not kill off another project.

[raisethehammer]

Mark...why does option 4 only have 3 sign locations?
None at the QEW/Burlington St area?

[FairHamilton]

The perspective of 1 tax year for a low-end property ($2800) is not the same perspective as the new city hall amortized over its lifetime that represents a city with a population of over half a million. Anyway, this thread is supposed to be about the gateway signs.

OK, thanks for refering to my house as low-end. That's much appreciated.

Anytime you'd like a tour of my house and neighbourhood, I'd be happy to provide (PM me) and then you can choose to slag, or not slag, my choice in homes.

If I ended the post with what I'm thinking the moderators would delete, so you can use your imagination as to what I'd say to your face.

[adam]

My apologies, I know for a fact there are many gorgeous homes in Hamilton that are under the average annual property tax.

[FairHamilton]

180,00 households, actually I think that's a projected future number a few years out, isn't it? Like I've said before 3 types of lies; Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics............

Actually, the entire project is $8.5M over budget, $3.5 is only the saving from using concrete on the building (vs. limestone) and aluminium around windows (vs. stainless steel). Never did I say the signs cost $3.5M only if they wanted money to put towards the $3.5M for limestone and stainless they should kill the signs, as I perceive them as having the same value as investing in City Hall.

It was suggested to axe the skating rink over the gateway signs. Since $8.5M is needed I'd say get rid of both. I've skated on City Hall rinks in Scarborough and Kitchener, while nice and enjoyable I could live without.

Add $20 to everyones tax bill, remember this would be in addition to the usual increase.

Perhaps I'm from a different place/generation. I was taught you had a finite budget, and you made choices on what you could buy, and not buy, with that budget. You couldn't have it all, once the money is spent the money is spent, don't go into debt. Perhaps, I expect the same from my elected officials, and not have them treat taxpayers as a bottomless pit whenever they want more $$ for a project.

You want to see a funny look? Walk into a car dealership and start negotiating on the price of a new car. When they ask you about how you'll be financing the purchase, tell them you'll be paying cash. Watch as their jaw drops, they are truly at a loss for words.

[FairHamilton]

My apologies, I know for a fact there are many gorgeous homes in Hamilton that are under the average annual property tax.

And please keep in mind that taxes in Hamilton are higher than in many other jurisdictions in Ontario, i.e. Toronto's.

I know of homes in Toronto costing 3 times+ the cost of mine, pay less than twice my yearly taxes in Hamilton.

[markbarbera]

Mark...why does option 4 only have 3 sign locations?
None at the QEW/Burlington St area?

All of the options only considered 3 sign locations.

There are five locations in total identified as potential gateways. For this gateway project, the scope for all the options being studied was limited to three of the five locations: QEW at Fifty, Highway 403 at Highway 6, and Highway 403 at Alberton. The other two locations (QEW at Burlington/RHVP & Highway 6 at Freelton) were deemed out of scope for all options under consideration, mainly due to space restrictions. Here is the text from the study report explaining the scope limitation that excluded QEW/Burlington and Highway 6 at Freelton form the study:

Site constraints at these sites such as existing MTO signs, width of the road allowance, and sight lines
make the effective use of the sign and landscape type of gateway difficult. Therefore, these sites have
been left outside of the current scope of work. City Urban Design staff are working with Public Works staff
and the Red Hill Project team to determine appropriate sites and designs for possible gateway features in
these two areas
Initial discussions are underway with the Public Works Department to determine if the Freelton water tower
can be painted to serve as a gateway feature for those entering the City from the North on Highway No. 6.
A gateway pedestrian bridge is approved for Site 5, the Q.E.W. and the new Red Hill Creek Parkway
interchange, for those entering the City from Burlington over the Skyway Bridge.

[adam]

FiarHamilton, I'm just the opposite, I could easily live without the gateway signs, but feel a skating rink and beautiful city hall would draw more people to the downtown and help rejuvenate the area. Spend some money on a tourism website and reach a larger audience (internet = gateway to the world)

[raisethehammer]

how stupid...our gateway signs are going to be way the heck out in no-man's land??
people simply don't have hamilton on their radar...the spec had a piece this week about a facebook ad by tourism hamilton that has been shown 1million times this summer....they've had 480 hits. That's pretty bad.

[markbarbera]

The gateway signs are being positioned at the entry points to the municipality. Isn't that really where a city gateway should be? While the 403 at Allerton may seem a bit remote, the Highway 403/6 and QEW/Fifty interchanges are hardly no-man's land...

[raisethehammer]

true enough.... I don't get the assertion that there is 'no room' along the QEW/Red Hill for one.
There's the same empty grass shoulders as every other highway in the area.
We're talking about a sign, not a new airport.

[markbarbera]

180,00 households, actually I think that's a projected future number a few years out, isn't it? Like I've said before 3 types of lies; Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics............


The most recent number for households in Hamilton that I could locate is from the 2001 Census, which listed 188,155 households in the city itself. I couldn't find a city-specific statistic in the 2006 Census, just for the Hamilton CMA, which was 266,380. Of course, the Hamilton CMA includes Burlington. So I guess you'd say I wasn't passing on a lie or a damn lie, simply a statistic.

[markbarbera]

true enough.... I don't get the assertion that there is 'no room' along the QEW/Red Hill for one.
There's the same empty grass shoulders as every other highway in the area.
We're talking about a sign, not a new airport.

MTO rules are really odd surrounding sightlines, lsize of allowances and content. For example, if the city goes with the first option presented they would have to apply for a special exemption from MTO because it makes use of the City logo, and trademarked logos are a no-no for the MTO.

From what I gathered, the study determined that the pedestrian bridge would be the de-facto gateway for this interchange.

[FairHamilton]

FiarHamilton, I'm just the opposite, I could easily live without the gateway signs, but feel a skating rink and beautiful city hall would draw more people to the downtown and help rejuvenate the area. Spend some money on a tourism website and reach a larger audience (internet = gateway to the world)

I don't disagree with wanting an skating rink, heck my wife and I would use it, and lack of a close outdoor ice rink was one of the things which made me hesitant about buying a home in Hamilton.

I'm talking about changes to projects that will allow for limestone & stainless as a finish on City Hall. My point is you can't have everything, so some things need to be sacrificed. The fact is, that's life, and it's full of sacrifices.

Maybe there's something other than gateway signs, and a skating rink that can be cancelled/delayed to get limestone on City Hall. I don't know, those were just easy targets. I'm open to other suggestions as well.

But, just saying raise taxes is too easy, and IMHO won't be (shouldn't be) considered. Try writing a letter to The Spec and suggest the city raise taxes to cover the $3.5M for City Hall's limestone & stainless (or for the entire $8.5M). Then see what letters follow, it will show that no politician is going to float that idea. It's not an option.

[raisethehammer]

has anyone looked into the possibility of using MacTac for city hall???

[markbarbera]

Brilliant! you can get mactac with a marble pattern, stick it onto some chipboard, slap it on the side of the building and Bob's your uncle! No one looking at it from the street would know the difference.

[SteelTown]

Don't forget a skating rink will be built at Pier 4.

If limestone is choosen would they polish it or leave it as a rough stoney facade?

[raisethehammer]

and what's with all these expensive contractors?? just hire Steve Smith (Red Green).
He's a pro with MacTac and duct tape. We'd save a fortune!

[markbarbera]

The most recent number for households in Hamilton that I could locate is from the 2001 Census, which listed 188,155 households in the city itself. I couldn't find a city-specific statistic in the 2006 Census, just for the Hamilton CMA, which was 266,380. Of course, the Hamilton CMA includes Burlington. So I guess you'd say I wasn't passing on a lie or a damn lie, simply a statistic.

Okay, I found a more recent number for the city. The total number of dwellings for the City of Hamilton, according to Statistics Canada's 2006 Census (http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/335DC64D-CE8C-46C5-A44B-1A69F57742D6/0/IP2006CensusStats.pdf), is 204,922.

That would mean the $3.5 million cost would work out to about $17.08 per household, if paid in full out of hand in one year. If the cost is amortized over twenty-five years, the burden to each household's annual property tax would work out to $1.61 per household per year.

That's for limestone and stainless steel trim, haven't done the number crunching for mactac yet.

[highwater]

If limestone is choosen would they polish it or leave it as a rough stoney facade?

Polish it I hope, so it would be more in keeping with the original marble.

[SteelTown]

I searched myself and yea polished smooth limestone.

[SteelTown]

Also if you look at the panels provided, the limestone panel is so smooth and solid whereas with the concrete panels it has holes (probably airbubbles), which suggest to me it'll be easy for the concrete panels to crack and wear down.

[FairHamilton]

Okay, I found a more recent number for the city. The total number of dwellings for the City of Hamilton, according to Statistics Canada's 2006 Census (http://www.myhamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/335DC64D-CE8C-46C5-A44B-1A69F57742D6/0/IP2006CensusStats.pdf), is 204,922.

That would mean the $3.5 million cost would work out to about $17.08 per household, if paid in full out of hand in one year. If the cost is amortized over twenty-five years, the burden to each household's annual property tax would work out to $1.61 per household per year.

That's for limestone and stainless steel trim, haven't done the number crunching for mactac yet.

OK, put that in writing to the Spec that if we just raised taxes we could easily afford limestone and stainless on City Hall.

I'll lay money if it gets published there will be a flood of letters about no more raising taxes, throw the 'bums' out and that type stuff.

Do you believe any differently? Politically, that's not an option.

[markbarbera]

OK, put that in writing to the Spec that if we just raised taxes we could easily afford limestone and stainless on City Hall.

I'll lay money if it gets published there will be a flood of letters about no more raising taxes, throw the 'bums' out and that type stuff.

Do you believe any differently? Politically, that's not an option.

Talking about raising taxes is definitely not an option for any politician. However, politicians never talk about raising taxes. They just raise them.

[markbarbera]

Don't forget a skating rink will be built at Pier 4.


I am getting very much off topic here, but I always thought it would be neat if the city flooded the northern portion of the Desjardins Canal at wintertime and set it up as a skating rink.

[raisethehammer]

did anyone see Hamilton Place yesterday after the rain.
Beautiful. :slob:

[adam]

A city of 1/2 a million without enough money to finish city hall properly. Shame on them. This is my last post in this thread.

[FairHamilton]

A city of 1/2 a million without enough money to finish city hall properly. Shame on them. This is my last post in this thread.

Let's keep in mind they just committed a great deal of money to resurrect the Lister Block.

Last time I looked $$ didn't grow on trees, though based on some posts here you'd think it did...............

[FairHamilton]

Talking about raising taxes is definitely not an option for any politician. However, politicians never talk about raising taxes. They just raise them.

Which they will for Lister Block, and many other projects and I'm sure there is already an increase coming for the $50M budgeted for City Hall we just haven't discussed that yet.......

My common thread has been, you can't have it all or you can't have your cake and eat it too, and all those other cliches. The city has to make decisions about what's important today, and what they can afford today without going back to the well (taxpayers).

[highwater]

They had no trouble finding half a billion dollars for the RHVP, and they'll have no trouble finding whatever it takes to service the Aerotropolis. $3.5 million seems like a drop in the bucket to do right by a heritage building that was bequeathed to us by our forebears, and is ours to be decent stewards of till we pass it on to our kids (along with all the RHVP and Aerotropolis debt).

Ferguson is right, we are not a wealthy municipality. We are suffering from a serious impoverishment of honour and vision.

[raisethehammer]

They had no trouble finding half a billion dollars for the RHVP, and they'll have no trouble finding whatever it takes to service the Aerotropolis. $3.5 million seems like a drop in the bucket to do right by a heritage building that was bequeathed to us by our forebears, and is ours to be decent stewards of till we pass it on to our kids (along with all the RHVP and Aerotropolis debt).

Ferguson is right, we are not a wealthy municipality. We are suffering from a serious impoverishment of honour and vision.

wow. very well stated.

[adam]

Hey maybe we could propose a 5th option for the sign that says in big bold letters "HAMILTON - WE'RE NOT A WEALTHY MUNICIPALITY"
:P

[astroblaster]

Hey maybe we could propose a 5th option for the sign that says in big bold letters "HAMILTON - WE'RE NOT A WEALTHY MUNICIPALITY"
:P

are you kidding? you know how much all those letters would cost?

i propose HAMILTON - WE PO'

[adam]

or maybe each letter could be sponsored by a different company!

[HomeInMyShoes]

^Haha, that's the spirit. It could be like an Alphabet book:

H is for Heinz
A is for Apple
M is for McDonald's
...

[highwater]

are you kidding? you know how much all those letters would cost?

i propose HAMILTON - WE PO'

:haha:

[DC83]

^^ Ya man, that's F'in hillarious!