[MatchstickMan]

Hello everyone,

I can see that quite a few people have some good thoughts on here. In the spirit of "wow", let's do some completely blue sky thinking and throw out some ideas about things we would like to see in and around Hamilton.

This is a big brainstorming exercise and is meant to be constructive, so anyone can throw anything out, large or small, realistic or not --- and nobody is allowed to belittle the contribution of another person.


I will begin with a couple of modest ideas:

I would love to see a gigantic Chapters store added to Jackson Square or the City Centre.

I would like to see buskers make regular appearances in Gore Park to add to the vibe.

[fastcarsfreedom]

I second the Chapters idea--(although I think all new construction is the
!ndigo format)--we've long talked about bringing in some larger format retailers to JS.

Buskers? I'm not sold on the idea--it's just a preference issue--I generally find 'buskers' an irritating nuisance--but, I'm willing to entertain the idea if it has a positive impact on business.

Stadium and Hotel on the bayfront, along with a "waterside village" consisting of retail/restaurant/bar spaces. Outdoor amphitheater--possible summer venue for the HPO.

More public art.

A return to a more formalized landscape architecture approach to streetscaping and parks.

Expansion of the HCC.



Reconstruction/Reintroduction of Incline Railway/Funicular service.

[hamiltonguy]

1) Living Street Jackson Square

2) New Stadium

3) Cargo Trams, and a Streetcar network to compliment the LRT Lines

4) A Coordinated Sustainable Transportation Plan

5) West Bayfront European style Development

6) Politcal Reform

an MMP system for electing councilors

6 for Downtown

4 for Mountain

1 for Dundas

2 for Flamborough

2 for Ancaster

1 for Glanbrook

4 for Stoney Creek

+ a Mayor

(21 member council) I'd make them part time as most decisions would be made by the comities and a new Board of Control elected by the Council. Only Board of Control + Mayor would be full time. Board of Control would be 7 members: The Mayor, 3 Mayoral Appointees (approved by council) and 3 members elected by council.

[matt602]

Indigo in Jackson Square is something I've wanted to see for a LONG time now. Right in the old Bank of Montreal space above the King/James entrance. I really can't believe they haven't gobbled it up already - the view is gorgeous and they'd have great access to everything. I wish Yale would go after tenants a little more aggressively. They don't realize that they have some seriously nice space to offer.

[astroblaster]

i am also a big fan of the indigo @ jackson or the city center idea.

the idea of opening the city center to James street is also something i REALLY want to see. James is a great street but the city center block is horrendous.

a new stadium (in the bay/barton location we've talked about in another thread) would be awesome but i would rather see some some improvements in the core first.

i think i've heard the idea of replacing the bingo hall with a grocery store.. this would be cool.

[SteelTown]

Back when City Centre was under renovation to add more office space for City Hall the owner did say he wanted to add streetfront retail/cafe along James St North, was on a Spec article. So obviously they are thinking about it.

I suspect they are waiting for concrete evidence that the Lister Block will be redeveloped before adding streetfront along City Centre.

You'd be stupid not to add cafe/restaurant when hundreds of office workers will work directly across the street.

[highwater]

My crazy blue sky dream would be for this to be a model for our city parks:

http://dufferinpark.ca/home/wiki/wiki.php

[raisethehammer]

My crazy blue sky dream would be for this to be a model for our city parks:

http://dufferinpark.ca/home/wiki/wiki.php

I'm totally with you on that!! I've always felt the same way.
I can see that developing in places like Victoria Park, Gage Park, Corktown Park, Jackie Washington Park etc.... I'd also love to see some of our parkspace enhanced and made more 'natural' with huge trees, gardens, public art, water features etc..... Especially central city ones like Beasley Park, the Bennetto Rec centre lands etc...
Jackie Washington Park is a good example...another 10 years that park should look wicked with big trees and so many great natural areas along the inlet from the harbour and railway line buffer.
I'm blessed to live in Strathcona. Dundurn Park and it's north side slope trails are awesome, and now Victoria Park is being transformed.

[astroblaster]

Back when City Centre was under renovation to add more office space for City Hall the owner did say he wanted to add streetfront retail/cafe along James St North, was on a Spec article. So obviously they are thinking about it.

I suspect they are waiting for concrete evidence that the Lister Block will be redeveloped before adding streetfront along City Centre.

You'd be stupid not to add cafe/restaurant when hundreds of office workers will work directly across the street.

thats great news.. now we just have to wait for lister.. and that whole thing seems to be progressing nicely.. so this should happen in no time..

/sarcasm

[raisethehammer]

thats great news.. now we just have to wait for lister.. and that whole thing seems to be progressing nicely.. so this should happen in no time..

/sarcasm

yea, I think I'm getting to the point where I think that Jesus is going to return before Lister is fixed up.

[astroblaster]

yea, I think I'm getting to the point where I think that Jesus is going to return before Lister is fixed up.

... or maybe Jesus can return and fix up Lister block for us?

[ryan_mcgreal]

... or maybe Jesus can return and fix up Lister block for us?

We're already pretty good at turning vigor into whine.

[raisethehammer]

Lol....

[fastcarsfreedom]

Brilliant line mcgreal.

I've said it many times before--you'd be in a fight to convince me there is a building uglier (on the outside) than the City Center--it's hideous. It's like a bad cross between faux-Victorian and a giant wedding cake. I believe the metal flags may have been the ultimate example of "when bad buildings happen to good cities" I will take the relatively blank walls of Jackson Square over CC's fake windows anyday. So, I will add streetfront retail to CC, as long as it's accompanied by something transformative--I know they have some structural 'challenges' putting in streetfront retail--the "main" level of the CC isn't at the same level as the street, for instance.

[astroblaster]

Brilliant line mcgreal.

I've said it many times before--you'd be in a fight to convince me there is a building uglier (on the outside) than the City Center--it's hideous. It's like a bad cross between faux-Victorian and a giant wedding cake. I believe the metal flags may have been the ultimate example of "when bad buildings happen to good cities"

i HATE the metal flags

[coalminecanary]

at least 2 inclines (wentworth and kenilworth) plus a gondola from st joes to upper james.

[drpgq]

With regards to those wanting a new stadium, how many are actually Ticat season ticket holders (or go to games regularly)? I am and would prefer to keep Ivor Wynne for a variety of reasons. Probably the biggest for me is that a new stadium would in all likelihood be a soulless bandbox that would do well for a couple of years for the Cats due to initial excitement and then be derided soon after (hello Skydome).

[SteelTown]

^ Bob Young and Scott Mitchell are both on board for a new stadium. IWS is no longer able to host the Grey Cup, the video scoreboard took up space so we can't put up temporary seats to meet the minimum requirement for hosting a Grey Cup. It has passed its prime.

[raisethehammer]

With regards to those wanting a new stadium, how many are actually Ticat season ticket holders (or go to games regularly)? I am and would prefer to keep Ivor Wynne for a variety of reasons. Probably the biggest for me is that a new stadium would in all likelihood be a soulless bandbox that would do well for a couple of years for the Cats due to initial excitement and then be derided soon after (hello Skydome).

I'm with you.
If there's a way to fix it up, I'd much prefer that.
New stadiums are always so boring and have tons of wasted space between the field and stands for track meets and other things.
I realize that enables us to host track meets and other events, but IWS is awesome.
Best place to watch football in Canada.

[drpgq]

^ Bob Young and Scott Mitchell are both on board for a new stadium. IWS is no longer able to host the Grey Cup, the video scoreboard took up space so we can't put up temporary seats to meet the minimum requirement for hosting a Grey Cup. It has passed its prime.

That may well be true that Young and Mitchell might be for a new stadium, however their management skills seem to leave a lot to be desired. We've held two Cups since 1972, so is the Cup really that much of a concern? Although Bob would probably like the cash if it could be successfully executed.

I don't really think Ivor Wynne has passed its prime, you can't buy that kind of atmosphere and location. I probably might share your views, if I was sure a replacement stadium would be a success, but I'm pretty sure that it will end up being poorly executed (and likely extremely over budget) and deemed a failure five years after opening, with everyone pining for Ivor Wynne.

The Cats can say that a new stadium would solve some problems, however the real problem has been their hideous record over the past five years, not the stadium. Maybe if we can beat Winnipeg this week, we can turn the season around.

[astroblaster]

yah.. i'll admit my desire for a stadium is mostly based on me loving that location for a stadium. its more about wanting a higher profile harbour front area.

i am not a ticats season ticket holder.

[raisethehammer]

yup...bang on. The record is what matters.
Win some games (or even stay competitive beyond 9 minutes every night) and people will show up.
I can't count how many folks I've sat with from TO on Labour Day who are amazed at the atmosphere. They *have* the new stadium in Skydome and all sit there wishing they could have Ivor Wynne.
If we could take a page from the Seattle Seahawks books and build a stadium all about keeping the noise, wind and rain ripping right through the stadium, then I'd be open to it.
The result - their stadium is known as the loudest in the NFL. It has the smallest footprint. It's the steepest and angled to allow those blustery west coast wind and rain storms to pummel the stadium.

[SteelTown]

The stadium will be a multi used stadium, it won't be built to hold an event 17 some days a year. Also if you carefully look at the stadium rendering you can see there's a separate track and field beside the stadium and there's no track field inside the stadium. If all goes well McMaster and the city could fund a Sports Complex next to the stadium.

[fastcarsfreedom]

I have great affection for Ivor Wynne--having grown up going to games there--and once, many years ago, taking to that field myself--it was awesome. I sat through the snow-bound '96 Grey Cup, countless scrimmages, exhibition games and regular games on warm summer nights. I love the place--as a family we've had season tickets as long as I remember. The elementary school my mother attended (PoW) stood basically in the end zone.

That being said--I'm a realist. The sightlines are okay--but not irreplaceable--and the "charm" of the place is actually relatively limited--it's basically an old, bare bones grandstand on one side--and a slightly newer, more dreary grandstand on the other. Most importantly, the park is surrounded by a residential area that barely tolerates it--the demographics have changed, residents in that area of the city have become more transitory--the main thing is, the City can't do a darn thing with the place aside from the Ticats--and that hurts everyone--it hurts city coffers and it hinders the team from being able to draw additional revenue. Everyone in the CFL is coming to the same basic realization--too many years of deferred maintenance and fear over the future have left the league's facilities a shambles. The city can put together a nice, intimate, modern facility that's comfortable and can draw more revenue--no one wants to see the SkyDome happen...and it won't--that ditch was out-of-date before it was even finished.

[raisethehammer]

I'm not sure that the neighbourhood 'barely tolerates' Ivor Wynne.
I see a lot of people making a quick 25-100 bucks every game night on parking.

[BCTed]

How about a large-scale outdoor concert theatre like the Molson Ampitheatre in Toronto? Could something like that fit in Bayfront Park?

[fastcarsfreedom]

Very true--but ultimately that isn't the problem. The fact remains the surrounding environs won't tolerate any additional use of the facilities--that makes it less viable economically...witness the recent attempt to stage a concert there.

[BCTed]

A one million square foot convention centre.

[BCTed]

A Bay store in the City Centre.

[MatchstickMan]

How about a large-scale outdoor concert theatre like the Molson Ampitheatre in Toronto? Could something like that fit in Bayfront Park?

A one million square foot convention centre.

A Bay store in the City Centre.

[matt602]

I don't think the Bay is gonna be expanding it's operations any time soon, especially not into downtown Hamilton.

[MatchstickMan]

I don't think the Bay is gonna be expanding it's operations any time soon, especially not into downtown Hamilton.

That doesn't matter. It's just an idea.

How about a Holt Renfrew or a Harry Rosen somewhere in Hamilton?

[MatchstickMan]

A new sign for the AGH to replace the one that fell.

Some kind of an interactive museum that would be fun for kids and adults, maybe something like the Ontario Science Centre.

A 100 story building.

A renovated Copps Coliseum, complete with an NHL team.

A Google campus.

[astroblaster]

Some kind of an interactive museum that would be fun for kids and adults, maybe something like the Ontario Science Centre.


I daydream about this one a lot. Some sort of interactive local history museum. But I don't know if the general public is interested enough in this. And we've already got a few other places that fill this role. Hasn't stopped me from thinking about it, though. Someone mentioned in another thread that Treble Hall would be an awesome location. I agree.


A Google campus.

I want one too. But there's one in Waterloo already, I think. So I'm not sure this one would happen.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Harry Rosen--been there/done that--see the Hamilton Eaton Center circa 1991.

[raisethehammer]

a new AGH sign would be friggin nice. Geez. Don't they have insurance?

[geoff's two cents]

My wish list for the city:

I like the Bay store idea. Some other chains, like the Gap and such, would also be wonderful along the Gore Park area.

Downtown badly needs a real grocery store - or, the Farmer's Market needs to be open every day until quite late.

We've already got the Jackson Square theatres - How about a place that shows indy and foreign films? Perhaps in the International Village area? While we're at it, how about making Jarvis square into an actual square? And does Denninger's really need all that parking lot space? Their street-front looks so much nicer. . .

LRT from downtown Stoney Creek to downtown Hamilton to downtown Dundas (never understood the point of having it terminate at University Plaza, unless they're eventually planning on razing the plaza mall).

A number of restaurants/coffee shops with patios along the escarpment, and condos along Concession St. to take advantage of those incredible views

Waterfront development. Instead of the currently rather confusing setup, how about an actual strip with condos, restaurants, etc. And make the road/strip go at least all the way to that large, red warehouse.

Continue to clean up the harbor/Coote's Paradise - One day, people may actually swim there again.

Somebody please do something with the empty National Revenue Building!

Downtown as a parking lot free zone!

Of course this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff, but I'm sure that even one or two of these things would make a huge difference!

[DC83]

a new AGH sign would be friggin nice. Geez. Don't they have insurance?

hahaha That's been on your New Year's Wishlist for the past 4 years!! hahaha
I obviously agree tho!

Just for you tho, rth, Pizza Pizza downtown has replaced their orange & white tiles with browny-orange & beige tiles instead!

[raisethehammer]

hahaha That's been on your New Year's Wishlist for the past 4 years!! hahaha
I obviously agree tho!

Just for you tho, rth, Pizza Pizza downtown has replaced their orange & white tiles with browny-orange & beige tiles instead!

thank goodness!! Those bright orange/white are hideous.

[coalminecanary]

an IMAX theatre downtown

[astroblaster]

an IMAX theatre downtown

nice one. i agree. hate having to go to Mississauga for them. maybe they'll do one on the east mountain/stoney creek (they are building a theater in that area , no?) that might be a bit more realistic than a downtown one.. even though downtown would be cooler.

also, I hear theres a new silver city in oakville that has "VIP" theaters with a bar. love it. we should get one of those too. im pretty sure hamilton will support antything that involves booze.

[DC83]

an IMAX theatre downtown

How about a decent, modern movie theatre in general. That's one problem downtown, no one goes to the Empire in JS b/c it lacks modern cinema amenities.

I know a perfect spot, King William & John behind 77/ Dirty Dogs. Still close enough to the arts district, and hopefully a chance to revive King William into an entertainment district again w/ fancy restos back, some clubs & bars, etc.
Much like the former Paramount Theatre, now Scotia Theatre, @ John & Richmond in TO.

http://images.ourfaves.com/images/User/miniwheats/p991333404_o.jpg
photo by Miniwheats @ http://toronto.ourfaves.com/place/Scotiabank_Theatre_formerly_Paramount?p=1&s=25&t=1306&m=3


If KW needed anything to bring it back, a Modern Cinema would be it: not a 9-5 business crowd inside Lister.

[astroblaster]

I know a perfect spot, King William & John behind 77/ Dirty Dogs.

that's a pretty sweet spot for it, actually. nice

[DC83]

^^ it would definately bring ppl back to this area which is currently a dead zone (hmmm, empty lots on every corner, I wonder why).
And give a nice view for those entering from York-Cannon!

[SteelTown]

My ultimate dream is to tunnel a section of Main St W from Bay to James St. Therefore City Hall’s forecourt could connect with Commonwealth Square to make a giant Civic Square with AGH, Football Hall of Fame, Convention Centre, Hamilton Place, etc. Only LRT and HSR could drive along the new Civic Square.

Add a bunch of trees, grass, trails, benches, funky streetlights and you got a great spot to hang out especially with the ice rack.

Would probably cost somewhere $50 million to tunnel Main St but its done all over Europe.

[astroblaster]

both main and king tunnels would be sweet.

[raisethehammer]

My ultimate dream is to tunnel a section of Main St W from Bay to James St. Therefore City Hall’s forecourt could connect with Commonwealth Square to make a giant Civic Square with AGH, Football Hall of Fame, Convention Centre, Hamilton Place, etc. Only LRT and HSR could drive along the new Civic Square.

Add a bunch of trees, grass, trails, benches, funky streetlights and you got a great spot to hang out especially with the ice rack.

Would probably cost somewhere $50 million to tunnel Main St but its done all over Europe.

you don't need tunnels for that idea.
Just turn Queen, Bay, Wellington, Victoria to two-way along with Wilson, Cannon, King, Charlton and Herkimer. keep LRT on Main St in the civic square and all cars are re-routed to one of the other 28 east/west traffic lanes downtown.

[emge]

A grocery store instead of that bingo hall.. wow, that alone would do so much good in both the "getting rid" and "bringing in" departments. the chapters idea as well.

I'd love to see the shutdown coffeehouse and the red lion inn at King & Bay totally renovated, the corner turned into a Starbucks/Williams/Second Cup type place with a Hamilton gift shop/tourism information centre beside it + a decent hotel or apartments upstairs . Though I like independent coffee shops, here I'd find a chain more appropriate.

[rousseau]

Can fantasies be included in this thread?

If I had wealth of Bill Gates' proportions I would buy up the several parking lots north of downtown and put up a liberal arts/research university. I would spend lavishly on the buildings in order to avoid the brutalist architecture that typifies mid to late 20th century public buildings. Hamilton would become a serious academic centre a la Boston. The name of my institution? The University of Gene Levy--shortform: U. Gene Levy. Who was Gene Levy? Dunno, we'll make something up.

I would also play at being a developer, and would take the James Street North streetscape on the east side of the street between Cannon and Vine and replicate it anywhere and everywhere around my new university, except the frontage would be first-floor retail with three floors above it instead of just two. Cannon Street would be transformed all the way from Wellington to Bay. I would screen applicants (bit autocratic this, I know!) for the retail space and give them 5 years occupancy completely free of rent or utilities, after which they would have to pay market rates. I would do infill projects consisting of New York-esque four-floor walkup apartments/condos anywhere and everywhere I could. Yes, this would involve buying up and razing blocks of crappy one-floor houses clad in vinyl siding. I would insist on one English-style public square in and amongst all of this, or maybe even two or three.

Ideally, we would get 15,000 students in the downtown area during the day, 10,000 or more of them sleeping there at night, and another 10,000 residents living in the walkup apartments/condos. The ripple effect would be enormous.

Do I have any willing investors?

[hamiltonguy]

Never mind a new University, lets get Redeemer Downtown. The city can buy the parking lots, and secure the help of a developed to redevelop the Redeemer land in Ancaster. The city could provide partial funding (Residential Loan Program) for the new dorms. Redeemer might make a tidy little profit, from the sale of the land in Ancaster. Anyone here know any big rollers that would help finance this?