[Wheelingman04]

I hear a lot of negative things about Upstate. Do you think things are turning around? Could there be a large scale revitalization in Upstate cities? Thanks for your replies. :)

[Cirrus]

Yes. As gas gets more expensive it will prove easier for some people to simply go back to old cities rather than to retrofit all the new ones.

Not that I expect Buffalo to challenge Toronto for Lake Ontario supremacy, or for Tampa to fall off the map, but some time in the future Buffalo will at least be healthy.

[Master Shake]

I hear a lot of negative things about Upstate. Do you think things are turning around? Could there be a large scale revitalization in Upstate cities? Thanks for your replies. :)

In a word "no". High taxes, cold weather, corrupt state government. Upstate New York is Appalachia without the coal. An economic dead zone.

Now if high speed rail lines were built connecting Albany and surrounding towns to NYC metro, like they have in France and Japan, then Upstate would be revitalized. But New York State is bankrupt and the US government does not invest in infrastructure so not much luck.

[LMich]

If Upstate is "Appalachia without the coal", I'd hate to hear what you think Michigan is...

As much as Upstate gets ripped on, the cities still seem more livable/viable than similar cities in economic declines/downturns, particularly in the Midwest.

[Thundertubs]

The cost of doing business in New York is such that unless you're plugged into the socket of NYC or Westchester it's not worth it. If Upstate can somehow lower the taxes and cost of doing business (not saying I have any suggestions how...), the jobs will come, sure as they go anywhere that is cheap (NW Arkansas?).

Expensive gas will not get droves of people rehabbing inner city Rochester or Binghamton or Troy because not enough jobs are downtown.

The advantage Upstate cities have is terrific bones to build on, were the economics in thier favor.

[Cirrus]

Expensive gas will not get droves of people rehabbing inner city Rochester or Binghamton or Troy because not enough jobs are downtown.
There can be. The infrastructure is there. People follow jobs, yes, but jobs also follow people.

[JManc]

upstate has a ton of potential but the government (state and local) is so deep rooted in cronyism and incompetence that it may be a while before that happens. however, i do think their worst days are behind them...with the exception of my hometown, utica, which is declining as steady as ever but everyone else seems to be leveling off and even showing positive growth (albany area). one major problem with most upstate cities is the amount of people on some sort of public assistance which is huge and contributes to the other major problem, taxes.

[Antares41]

The cost of doing business in New York is such that unless you're plugged into the socket of NYC or Westchester it's not worth it. If Upstate can somehow lower the taxes and cost of doing business (not saying I have any suggestions how...), the jobs will come, sure as they go anywhere that is cheap (NW Arkansas?).

Expensive gas will not get droves of people rehabbing inner city Rochester or Binghamton or Troy because not enough jobs are downtown.

The advantage Upstate cities have is terrific bones to build on, were the economics in thier favor.

I think your comments are on the right track! Right-sizing municipal government on village, town, city and county levels will go a long way in helping to reduce the current tax burden. Consolidation of services is yet another strategy that could improve the situation upstate. None of these remedies can be enacted switfly, but, with the continued loss of population in the region people are starting to more frequently challenge the issue of the size of local government.

[Wheelingman04]

Thanks for the comments.:yes: I am just trying to get some ideas on how this can become a better state excluding NYC.

[Evergrey]

Buffalo's economy has been pretty hot over the past year... finally climbing out of its extended post-9/11 malaise. The region is targeting a number of sectors for economic growth... including debt collection:

http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/414279.html

Debt collector may add 700 jobs

Forms unit to enter credit card servicing

By Sharon Linstedt NEWS BUSINESS REPORTER
Updated: 08/14/08 7:34 AM

A Buffalo company built on debt collection is looking to create as many as 700 new local jobs through a new credit card servicing operation.

Capital Management Services L. P. has established a new, independent business, Center One Capital, which is operating as a customer service center for Delaware-based MasterCard and Visa issuer Continental Finance.

Jeff Hauser, co-owner of Capital Management, one of the Buffalo’s area’s largest collection agencies, said Center One offers a completely new opportunity for growth.

“What attracted [Continental] to us was our strong process management skills,” Hauser said. “This is a new sector of financial services for us, but it’s an interesting endeavor for us and we anticipate it will be successful.”

The Empire State Development Corp. Board of Directors Wednesday approved a $500,000 training grant through its Jobs Now Program to assist Center One in its growth. The training funds are based on company projections it will employ 355 workers by 2011.

The credit card “back office” operation, which currently employs 125, is located at 698 S. Ogden St. in Buffalo, in the South Ogden Plaza. Hauser said he anticipates the staff count will far exceed the firm’s commitment to ESD.

“We could get to 700 in within a few years if things go the way we expect they will,” Hauser said.

Base salaries for the financial services jobs are in the $25,000-to $30,000-a-year range.

Capital Management Services, founded in 2000, is headquartered in the Larkin Co. building on Exchange Street and has offices in Las Vegas, Houston and Greenville, S. C. Hauser said there were several “transplant options” for the new credit service firm.

“There were alternative sites, but we came to the conclusion that we’ve had great success in Western New York and there’s an excellent work force,” the executive said.

Hauser said Center One is a product of discussions with Continental Finance dating back to early 2006. The new company was quietly established over a year ago with just 10 employees in former retail space at the Ogden Street plaza.

“We have 30,000-square-feet of really beautiful space with lots of room to grow and a long-term lease . . . so we can build Center One right here,” he added.

In a related development, a New York City-based investment group acquired the 111,000-square-foot plaza on Wednesday for $3.3 million. In addition to Center One, tenants include Big Lots and Dollar General.

Hauser and his partners have found success in tapping growth trends in the collections industry, a job sector that has hit pay dirt in Western New York as heavy manufacturing positions continue to fade away. According to U. S. Labor Department statistics, nearly 6,000 area residents are employed by more than 100 debt collection agencies in Erie and Niagara Counties.

Capital Management was ballooned from a start-up collections outfit with a handful of workers in a tiny Niagara Street office in 2000, to a firm with a national collections portfolio and a payroll of over 1,000, now headquartered in 70,000- square-feet of space in the Larkin Co. complex.

Despite that success, Capital is not without its detractors. Last year the Better Business Bureau of Upstate New York suspended the company’s membership due to an unusually large number of complaints that exceeded other collection firms. The company resigned from the bureau prior to an expulsion vote.

And parent firm of its new business partner, Continental Finance, has faced intense scrutiny for its ties to the national subprime lending debacle. First Bank of Delaware, which issues credit cards via Continental Finance, is the target of Federal Trade Commission and Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. probes into marketing of credit cards to higher-risk customers across the country.

From March 2006 through March 2008, the bank issued more than 240,000 cards through Continental. The federal agencies claim First Bank used deceptive marketing practices and employed lax approval criteria in issuing cards to consumers who would not have qualified for traditional lines of credit.

[Evergrey]

a renewed urban focus on the federal level could also be a boon to Buffalo and Upstate cities

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/08/11/daily44.html?t=printable

Plotting for an urban renaissance

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First

The fate of older, city centers like Buffalo could be infused when a new administration enters the White House next January.

With that thought in mind, Rep. Brian Higgins, D-Buffalo, is convening a federal panel on Friday to discuss that issue. The panel discussion is set for 10 a.m. at the Buffalo & Erie County Historical Society.

Higgins, co-chairman of the Congressional Revitalizing Older Cities Task Force, is bringing a mix of national and local speakers to the panel including Cheektowaga Supervisor Mary Holtz, Brian Reilly, Buffalo Department of Economic Development commissioner, Abby Wilson, co-founder of the Great Lakes Urban Exchange and Rob Atkinson, a visiting senior fellow at the prestigious Brookings Institution.

"The federal government has largely withdrawn from its responsibilities to urban areas like Buffalo and that has got to stop," Higgins said. "The current programs designed to help urban areas are not consistent with what our real needs are."

Higgins said the Buffalo panel is being run in conjunction with an ongoing federal study being run by the Northeast-Midwest Institute and the Northeast-Midwest Congressional Coalition. A report, based on the panel's findings, will be released later.

Higgins, however, said he has a good idea of what will come out of Friday's testimony.

"You can't just abandon places like Buffalo," Higgins said. "You have to rebuild them."


All contents of this site © American City Business Journals Inc. All rights reserved.

[Wheelingman04]

Thanks for posting those articles, Evergrey.:tup: I just think Upstate gets ignored because of NYC, which of course is a great city in its own right.

[Evergrey]

here's another example of Buffalo's booming growth in the debt collection industry

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/08/11/daily32.html?t=printable

Center One Capital growing in Buffalo

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First

Buoyed by a growing contract with a major client, a Buffalo credit card processing center, is poised for major growth.

Center One Capital LLC, which began operations one year ago with just 10 employees is now on track to hire at least 355 workers within the next three years -- and that number may balloon to 700 employees, based on exclusive deal it has with Continental Finance Co. of Delaware. Center One Capital, which was founded by the partners who created Capital Management Services, a Buffalo debt collections agency, handles customer service matters for Continental Finance. It is totally separate from Capital Management, said Jeff Hauser, company co-founder.

Center One Capital's expansion is being aided by a $500,000 training grant approved Wednesday morning by the New York State Urban Development Corp., an affiliate of the Empire State Development Corp. The grant was unanimously approved.

Hauser said Buffalo was selected over Las Vegas, Houston and Greensville, S.C. for the expansion.

"Did we have options? Absolutely," Hauser said. "But, Buffalo is the place we wanted to be."

According to documents filed with the Empire State Development Corp., Center One Capital will be investing at least $1.3 million in the project, although Hauser said the actual investment number will be "higher than that, considerably higher."

The state training grant was considered the crucial element in Center One Capital's decision to expand locally.

"ESD helped drive our decision," Hauser said.

Hauser said he expects the average Center One Capital employee will earn between $25,000 and $30,000 annually.

Capital Management Services is located in the Larkin at Exchange Building and has more than 1,000 employees. The company was founded in 2000.

"One thing we know from our experiences here is that no one works as hard or is as driven as people from Western New York," Hauser said. "That was a big factor as well."


All contents of this site © American City Business Journals Inc. All rights reserved.

[urbanactivist]

I think upstate NY is in a definite crossroads. Considering how well-built and well-planned the cities are, they'll always have potential for revival. The truth is that everyone can't and doesn't want to live in NYC... whether it's just that they can't afford it, looking for a slower-moving place, or a whole host of reasons. Considering their relatively close proximity to NYC, upstate residents have access to the area when needed.

[lawsond]

In a word "no". High taxes, cold weather, corrupt state government. Upstate New York is Appalachia without the coal. An economic dead zone.

i'm not so sure people are that freaked out by cold weather. i have family in houston and they can barely stand it now...let alone if temperature trends continue up.
i think you'll find the sun belt will reach capacity soon and that people will realize the virtues of cooler air and less oppresive temperatures.
i think the south has some pretty excellent corruption as well.
as for taxes, you get what you pay for.

[brickell]

as for taxes, you get what you pay for.

Isn't that kind of the point? The taxes are trying to support populations that just aren't there anymore. So no, you aren't getting what you pay for.

[Don B.]

Rochester and Buffalo are still shedding population by the thousands each year or decade. I've spent a lot of time in Rochester and let's be honest...it is declining with little hope of any sort of turnaround. The taxes are insane, there are significant racial issues with huge poverty-stricken minority populations mired in decades of violence and the weather is the worst in the continental United States.

Kansas City looks like San Francisco by comparison to Rochester, for example.

One idea I have to try and turn these cities around is to settle thousands of new immigrants to the United States in the declining northeastern cities. Fresh blood is what is needed; many Americans no longer desire to remain in old, cold, dying cities. Much like what is happening in New York City needs to be duplicated on a smaller scale in upstate New York.

--don

[Master Shake]

Maybe I spoke too soon

http://www.nysun.com/business/upstate-new-york-in-a-gold-rush/83755/

Upstate New York in a Gold Rush
By MAGGIE OVERFELT, Special to the Sun | August 13, 2008
COMMENT|SHARE|PRINT|EMAIL
When Richard Lasky retired to an 80-acre farm in upstate New York, he thought he was buying a little peace of mind after years of hard work in Manhattan's garment industry. Little did he know he was investing in a potential energy jackpot: Mr. Lasky's land sits on an enormous buildup of natural gas, which is poised to generate thousands of barrels of lucrative fuel.

Click Image to Enlarge

Tim Boyle/Getty
A vent pipe for a natural gas underground pipeline is shown in Des Plaines, Ill. in 2005.
As oil prices surge and new technologies make it easier to tap gas trapped in dense rock formations beneath the ground, Mr. Lasky is one of about 1,300 private landowners in Chenango County who have seen their acreage suddenly become valuable to prospectors. In a bid to cash in on gas trapped in shale below the earth's surface, energy companies and land speculators are paying record amounts to lease — and in some cases buy — property in counties stretching from Lake Erie to the Catskills.

Six months ago, landowners were leasing their land for $35 or less an acre; today, prospectors are wooing them with offers of as much as $3,000 an acre, an 8,500% increase, in addition to offering royalties on the gas removed from their wells.

Prices on land for sale has also skyrocketed. "Farmland that went for $750 to $1,000 an acre now goes for $2,000 to $2,400," a real estate broker in Norwich, N.Y., Peggy Parker, said.

"In the past six months, we've even seen junky land go for $1,000 an acre," the owner of Chenango County Realty in Holmesville, N.Y., David Thomas, added.

Multinational corporations such as Chesapeake Energy Corp. and Norse Energy Corp. have quietly been boring holes through layers of the state's sediment for more than a decade. But now, with oil prices regularly surpassing $115 a barrel, drilling for natural gas, which heats about half of America's homes, has taken an aggressive turn.

Since January, the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation has issued 495 drill permits, compared with 575 for all of 2007. About 30 energy companies have set up drill sites in New York, seeking to profit from the nation's demand for natural gas, which is up 5.5% this year.

The price of natural gas, which is measured in British thermal units, or BTUs, has been increasing along with demand, surpassing $13 per 1 million BTUs in July, the first time since 2005. The Energy Information Administration predicts that the average price of natural gas will remain elevated through 2009, hovering at about $9 or $10 per 1 million BTUs.

With prices for natural gas so high, corporations are betting on being able to excavate the Marcellus Shale, 34 million acres of rock that extends to central New York from West Virginia. Researchers at Pennsylvania State University have said the Marcellus holds some 50 trillion cubic feet of recoverable natural gas, nearly three times the amount produced annually.

"The energy companies are pretty optimistic about this shale," a vice president of economic and international affairs at the Independent Petroleum Association of America, Frederick Lawrence, said. "And being close to a very strong market, the Northern Corridor, is a big factor."

A gas boom also would benefit the denizens of rural counties such as Chenango, where the per capita income was $25,533 in 2005.

"It's hard to live here," a consulting petroleum geologist in Worcester, N.Y., Donald Zaengle, said. "Upstate New York is filled with land-rich, net-income-poor people."

While many New Yorkers have cashed in by selling their land or accepting large per-acre signing bonuses, some are holding out, taking the time to negotiate more lucrative, long-term leases.

"The typical gas company lease is an extraordinary bad document for landowners," an attorney in Elmira, N.Y., Christopher Denton, said.

Until recently, most gas companies were offering royalties of 12.5% of what is produced at a natural gas well, the minimum mandated by state law.

"I didn't get as much as I could have if I had waited," Steven Palmatier, who signed a contract five years ago to lease his land at $710 an acre, said.

For guidance, landowners are starting to look to other gas-rich regions such as Louisiana and north Texas, where residents receive royalties of 20% or more. "It behooves us to find out what other areas are doing," the town supervisor of Preston, N.Y., Peter Flanagan, said. "This whole thing has the potential to make a positive economic impact, but we're ignorant of a lot of what goes on in this industry."

To barter better lease terms, more landowners are negotiating with the energy companies in groups, pooling their acreage together. "I wouldn't settle for less than $5,000 an acre and 14% royalties," Mr. Lasky, who, as president of the Central New York Landowner's Coalition, represents more than a dozen landowners who own about 80,000 acres, said.

Landowner groups are also asking companies for environmental safeguards, seeking protection for damaged roads and possibly ruined water supplies. Energy companies, which are not required to disclose the contents of the fluids used in their drilling processes, will use high-pressure injections of chemical liquids as they bore horizontally into the earth.

"Nasty chemicals seeping into reservoirs would be a disaster," Ramsay Adams, the executive director of Catskill Mountainkeeper, a nonprofit environmental group, said. "The impact that drilling has on the watershed — that's a big issue for us."

Many city governments and county organizations are encouraging residents to bide their time. "There shouldn't be a stampede to sign a lease," the president of the Chenango County Farm Bureau, Bradd Vickers, said.

Mr. Vickers owns a 400-acre cattle farm and was first approached by a gas company 10 years ago. Today, he still hasn't signed on any dotted lines. "The gas has been here for hundreds of years. It's not going anywhere," he said. "We have the time to do this right."

[WIGS]

Jobs report good news for WNY
Business First of Buffalo - by G. Scott Thomas Business First
Friday, August 1, 2008

Western New York finds itself in an unaccustomed position in the latest national job rankings. It's among the leaders.

The Buffalo labor market, which includes Erie and Niagara counties, added 3,800 jobs between the midpoints of 2007 and 2008, according to a report released Wednesday by the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

That earns Buffalo 32nd place in the midyear job-growth rankings of America's 310 labor markets, putting it in the top 11 percent of the overall standings.

Buffalo's employment gains have been unspectacular, but steady, since mid-2007, equaling an additional 320 jobs per month.

That's nowhere near the pace set by the nation's hottest markets, Dallas and Houston, which both added more than 50,000 jobs during the past year, translating to more than 4,000 a month.

But it's exceptional when compared to several large markets that have been struggling in the wake of the nation's mortgage meltdown. Los Angeles, Detroit, Phoenix and Tampa all lost more than 20,000 jobs between June 2007 and the same month this year.

Gainers outnumber losers in the job-growth rankings. Fifty-six percent of the nation's labor markets - a total of 174 - added jobs during the one-year period. Nine were unchanged, and the other 127 suffered losses.

The split in New York is slanted more toward the negative. Buffalo and four other state markets added jobs from June 2007 to June 2008, led by New York City's increase of 19,000.

Then comes Buffalo's increase of 3,800 and small gains in Syracuse (up 600 jobs), Ithaca (up 200) and Albany (up 100).

But six labor markets in New York saw their employment bases shrink during the past year. The worst decline occurred in Rochester, which lost 3,100 jobs.

The overall national standings have a decidedly Texan flavor at the very top. The two largest markets in Texas easily outdistance the other 308 markets in the field. Dallas gained 57,800 jobs since mid-2007, and Houston picked up 54,100.

Seattle is third nationally with an increase of 25,700 jobs, followed by Washington with 25,300 and Boston with 19,200.

Sixth through 10th places are held by New York City, Atlanta, Charlotte, San Antonio and Austin, respectively.

The biggest loser nationwide is Los Angeles, which saw 48,900 jobs slip away during the past year, the equivalent of 4,075 every month or 940 every week.

Detroit is the runner-up among the nation's unfortunate labor markets, with a 12-month decline of 34,800 jobs. Rounding out the bottom five are Phoenix (down 25,900 jobs), Riverside-San Bernardino, Calif. (down 25,800), and Tampa-St. Petersburg (down 23,100).

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/07/28/daily43.html

[steel]

If you look at this on a per capita basis Buffalo would look half way decent.

On a per capita comparison Buffalo's 3800 new jobs are equivalent to:

15,200 in Dallas still way off the actual 50,000 but sounding impressive.

63,300 in NYC (NYC 19,000 gain sounds good but when you remember that it is in a metro over 20M is is quite small. The equivalent in Buffalo would be only 1100)

18,000 in Boston

5,200 in Milwaukee

[Wheelingman04]

Thanks for keeping the discussion going.:)

[relnahe]

Considering their relatively close proximity to NYC, upstate residents have access to the area when needed.

For most of what is "real" upstate NY, this is a kin to someone saying they like living in Austin because its really close to Houston.

[Downtown Bolivar]

I think that Upstate cities could come back, but I think our rural areas have just about had it. First, taxes--If you think taxes are bad in the city/suburbs, they are much worse in small towns and rural areas where property values are in the toilet. To give an example, a person who owns a property in Allegany county, NY can expect to pay nearly $4,000 a year on a piece of property valued at $75,000. At this rate people's mortgate payments are doubled with their property tax escrow payments. Real estate is only a good deal on paper. At this tax rate (and they go up 4-5% yearly) people are simply renting the land from government.

Secondly, there is a major brain drain upstate, and it's far worse in small towns. Every year when the issue of taxes comes up, teachers unions inevitably run ads stating how education cuts hurt the future of the state, which all things being equal is true. However, things are not equal and so the good education system of NY is actually training the future workforce for Charlotte, Raleigh, DC, etc. Our students don't return once they get their SUNY degrees, unless they are planning to teach.

Thirdly, don't count on an oil and gas boom. As a guy who lives in oil country and knows oil producing property owners, state oil and gas regulations are far too burdensome for their to be any interest in drilling here. Did you know that an oil well can't also be gas well in NY even though natural gas is a biproduct of pumping oil? If the oil well produces too much gas, then the state classifies the well as a gas well, making it illegal to draw oil. Oil and gas wells also have to be a certain distance apart meaning that the same pocket can't be tapped for oil and gas at the same time. East Energy is running up against these rules in Whitesville, NY where they planned to tap 20,000 acres of private land, and the DEC is not backing down. If they were smart they would simply locate wells across the border in PA and use new horizontal drilling methods to tap the gas and oil, like Cuba is doing on our Gulf Coast. Add to this the illogical paranoia and nimbyism that happens anytime an a potential energy project is announced, be it Oil, Gas, Wind, or Nuclear is announced and I have the suspicion that rural areas of NY won't ever really be touched by the energy boom.

All this absurdity plus the rampant corruption and cronyism in the system leads me to believe that this area ain't coming back no matter much I love it and want it to.

[Downtown Bolivar]

Here's another example of how far things have fallen. 100 years ago, Allegany county was nearly clearcut of trees. In the northern part of the county, the Genesee Valley and the surrounding hills were covered with family farms that surrounded small villages such as Rushford, Centerville, and Fillmore. In the southern part of the county the hills and valleys were covered with oil wells, that fed the small industries and the refineries in Wellsville and nearby Olean and Bradford, PA. The south was more populated given this industrialization and there were bigger towns such as Wellsville, Andover, Cuba, Friendship, and Bolivar. And railroads criscrossed the entire county connecting it with upstate cities and the industrial towns of central PA. If you have been to Allegany county today you can see how this is distant history. Large forests surround mostly dilapidated towns--there is hardly any economic strength left.

[Wheelingman04]

Thanks for the insightful information, Downtown Bolivar.:tup:

[sharkfood]

I hear a lot of negative things about Upstate. Do you think things are turning around? Could there be a large scale revitalization in Upstate cities? Thanks for your replies. :)

One word: the weather.

I'm sorry, but if you took all those cities and transplanted them to the Sunbelt, they'd be booming. I was astonished to read this, but a corporate relocation consultant said that climate is a big factor in relocation decisions.

[Downtown Bolivar]

^^^That's utter nonsense. According to your wisdom Chicago and Minneapolis should be in shambles as well economically. Furthermore if NY was a sunbelt state it would still have onerous regulations and taxes, corrupt do-nothing governments and largely abandoned heavy industries, just with nicer weather. Comparing the sun belt with Upstate NY is like comparing apples to oranges.

[JManc]

One word: the weather.

I'm sorry, but if you took all those cities and transplanted them to the Sunbelt, they'd be booming. I was astonished to read this, but a corporate relocation consultant said that climate is a big factor in relocation decisions.

people left the north becuase there were no jobs and the taxes were high not becuase they had to shovel the driveway. the weather may contribute to reasons for moving but i don't know of anyone who left due to the weather alone. as if the weather down here is a big improvement; the long swealtering summers are as bad as long dreary winters up there.

[MolsonExport]

The climate is a red herring. How people prefer swealtering heat 8-9 months of the year (deep South, Southwest), to 4 months of crisp winter (Northeast), is beyond me. OK, air conditioning. But heck, don't people want to be outside??

[DBR96A]

The whole "better weather" argument is the most fucking overrated argument of them all. When it gets cold, you can add layers of clothing. When it gets hot, you can only take off so much. Furthermore, it's cheaper to heat a home than to air-condition it. As for temperatures during the winter, the average high in Atlanta in January is in the low 50s, and the average low around freezing. Yeah, it's too warm to snow, but it's still too cold to be "comfortable," so what the fuck is the point? And many parts of the Sun Belt are much more prone to hurricanes and tornadoes than anywhere in the Northeast, at least. (The Midwest has the tornado threat, but zero hurricane threat.) Nobody's ever needed a FEMA trailer after a blizzard.

[Evergrey]

Immigrants eased Utica region's population drop

Observer-Dispatch ( Utica , NY) - March 16, 2006
Author: Staff, Allissa Kline

By ALLISSA KLINE

Observer-Dispatch

akline@ utica .gannett.com

Oneida County newcomer Abdelshakour Khamis didn't have a choice when he resettled eight months ago in Utica .

He couldn't return to his native Sudan and he couldn't stay in Egypt under political asylum.

So he and his wife moved to the United States. Now, the father of one said he plans to stay for good.

"I don't think that now I'm thinking of going back," Khamis, 33, said Wednesday. "I'm here to do all my best and be part of the Utica population and do whatever I can to improve the Utica community."

Khamis is part of an influx of refugees and immigrants who, over the past five years, have helped Oneida County avoid a steeper drop in population, according to U.S. census estimates. While about 5,000 people have moved out of the county since 2001, about 4,100 refugees and immigrants have moved in, census estimates show.

The impact of the refugee and immigrant population is particularly significant to Utica , which lost about 12 percent of its population between 1990 and 2000, said Colgate University geography Professor Ellen Kraly, who studies international migration and refugees.

"Even though the city lost just under 12 percent in population, it would have been a much larger deficit without refugee resettlement, and I think one could speculate that that could characterize the last five years," Kraly said.

Had refugees and immigrants not come to Utica between 1990 and 2000, Kraly estimates, total population loss for Utica would have been as high as 20 percent.

In addition to adding sheer numbers to the population base, the refugee and immigrant population also has affected the local economy, said Peter Vogelaar, executive director of the Mohawk Valley Resource Center for Refugees.

"You can drive through East Utica and parts of Cornhill and you see where homes have been purchased, renovated and cleaned up," Vogelaar said. "There have been entire neighborhoods that have been reclaimed through former refugees taking homes."

Vogelaar also notices a growing connection between the refugee and immigrant population and longtime residents.

"I see the local community and emerging Bosnian community where businesses owned by Bosnians are beginning to cater to the local community," he said. "That's indicative of a combined ownership in the future of the community."

Market owner thrives in Utica

UTICA - Samir Ruznic knew he'd have a solid customer base when he opened an international food market on Albany Street.

"We're the kind of people who communicate with a lot of people here," said Ruznic, 34. "We knew there were like 6,000 people at that time."

Ruznic, a Bosnian native, is part of the largest refugee group to resettle in the city. He moved to Utica in 1997 from Germany, where he lived after war broke out in his homeland.

When he decided to open Ruznic Market four years ago, Ruznic stocked his shelves with fresh bread, European chocolate and other foodstuffs from Germany and Austria, he said. Most of his customers are fellow Bosnian refugees or Russians.

"If they stop buying, I'd have to change to something else," Ruznic said. "This kind of business really is for some groups of people."

He said he also might open a second market in the future.

Refugee: Bosnians boost area's morale

UTICA - Ramo Sabanovic had one choice when it came to leaving war-torn Bosnia: relocate in the United States.

"The only way to get out of the country was to come here," said Sabanovic, 25, of Utica .

The Mohawk Valley Resource Center for Refugees has resettled about 4,500 Bosnians since the first family arrived in 1993. Bosnian resettlement ended last year, refugee center officials have said.

Sabanovic said he feels welcome in Utica , where he attended college and now works as a medical records specialist at the St. Luke's campus of Faxton-St. Luke's Healthcare.

Besides offsetting general population loss in Oneida County, the Bosnian population has improved city neighborhoods and boosted morale, Sabanovic said.

"Bosnian people, they really are working people and they like to renew their houses," Sabanovic said. "It's doesn't matter if the house is OK. They still want to do something on it."

[JManc]

the bosnians have done very well there and have done a lot for the area.

[steel]

Contrary to popular belief many northerners like the change in seasons. Give me a kick but snow storm any day in winter. The only season that sucks is early spring because it is like winter in the middle south. Cold , damp, wet and blahhh.

[le calmar]

How can you be comfortable living in a place like this?

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3756/azjn0.jpg

[Wheelingman04]

I wish Wheeling would get an influx of immigrants.:(

[elsonic]

most of upstate NY (at least its northeastern section) is protected, public and parkland, wich is just fine. a massive development could ruin these century-old conservation efforts.

[Peanut]

Well to predict if Upstate NY will ever make a comeback you have to look at its history. Upstate NY before the 90's was the Manufacturing Capital of the North East but when these companies found they can do business cheaper elsewhere, they started moving out in droves. In Syracuse, Carrier all but moved out completely, GM moved, Syroco moved, and many others moved operations to china or the south.

Now it must be expected that Syracuse would be in steep decline, considering in the 70's Manufacturings took up 70% of all jobs, now it is less than 10%. But just like all other cities Syracuse diversified its jobs and now we Health and Education are the top employers. Syracuse is also Investing heavily in green technologies.

We also have a huge mall getting another addition, so that cant hurt :)

[JManc]

syracuse/ onondaga county/ someone needs to clean up that lake.

http://www.kelleytown.com/Freeware/gcd/blinky.jpg

[shovel_ready]

The emerging urban prairies of upstate's declining cities may prove beneficial when the time comes that fuel prices become so high we'll need all the land we can get close to the cities to grow food locally.

[Peanut]

syracuse/ onondaga county/ someone needs to clean up that lake.

http://www.kelleytown.com/Freeware/gcd/blinky.jpg

Well Allied Chemical did the bulk of the polluting and Honeywell bought them out so they got stuck with the bill. There is actually a pretty significant cleanup operation going on around there. The good news, you can now eat 1 fish per month from the lake!