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View Full Version : Figure Skating Scandal All Over Again?



mr.x
Aug 20, 2008, 6:48 AM
I'm certainly not an expert in Taekwondo, but it seems that the scores the judges gave were horrible. There's something very wrong when coaches from other nations are even backing up the Canadian coach on his appeal.

The Taekwondo match between Ivett Gonda of Canada and Hanna Zajc of Sweden, never before have I seen have a more unfairly judged event. I am not a Taekwondo fan, nor have I ever witnessed a match prior to this one. Therefore, I am really not aware of the nuances of the sport and the minor details around judging. However, listening to the commentator talking, it became clear to me that you earn one point for a hit to the chest (the whole blue section or a very specific part?), and two points for a hit to the head, including the neck. I am not sure if anything was mentioned about a knockdown, but I assume that this is, or at least should be, worth points.

In the match, Ivett was clearly the aggressor and the one initiating most, if not all of the real attacks. She also scored a number of chest shots, some of which may have been blocked, and at least one headshot for sure, maybe two. If even ONE of those chest shots, and ONE of the headshots were scored, she would have been the winner. More than that, she actually knocked Hanna down once. She was indeed the clear winner.

I don't know how common these types of unfair judging incidents in Taekwondo occur, but I have heard that it does happen....same goes with boxing. If there were judging flaws with figure skating, why couldn't there be judging flaws with other sports as well - including taekwondo?

All I can say is this was definitely unfair, and the whole appeal process is exactly how the figure skating scandal of 2002 started. It really is the ISF and Salt Lake all over again. And hopefully there's enough of a backlash to fix this or in the future.....that it will cause the same kind of backlash as we saw in figure skating, 2002.







Judging questioned after Canada's Gonda loses first taekwondo match

Last Updated: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 | 1:40 AM ET
CBC Sports

Canada's Ivett Gonda lost her first taekwondo match 2-0 to Hanna Zajc of Sweden on Wednesday at the 2008 Olympic Games, but the judging is being questioned.

Competing in the under-49 kilogram class, Zajc took the lead in the first round when she scored a point against Gonda on a defensive kick. Her second point came when she scored on an offensive kick in the third round.

Gonda, 20, and her coach, Shin Wook Lim, are suggesting there was unfair judging in the match, saying the Canadian didn't receive the points she earned.

Lim suggested the Chinese judge Lei Zhao may have not been giving Gonda the points she deserved because she would have faced a Chinese athlete in the next round. Gonda is considered a medal contender in this weight class.

"I can't say for sure, but she made a point but [didn't receive] a point," Lim said. "Must be the machine's broken, I don't know. Other coaches were surprised. It's not only coming from me emotionally."

Lim and Gonda launched a protest, hoping for a re-match before the start of the afternoon matches on Wednesday. If the protest is successful, the judge could be punished if there was any wrongdoing.

"I felt really good," said Gonda. "I was doing exactly what my coach told me. I was kicking the points, I don't know why the points weren't going up. I think I made it pretty obvious."

There are four judges in taekwondo who stand at each corner of the mat. Points are given for kicks to the chest and head, and three out of the four judges have to agree that a kick has been landed for a point to be awarded.

Lim said he believed Gonda earned as many as seven or eight points.

"I was really surprised they weren't giving her points," he said. "I was waiting but the referee totally ignored me. Usually they stop the match and the judgest talk about it. But they completely ignored me."

This is deja-vu for Gonda, who at the 2004 Olympic games lost in the semifinal to the eventual gold medallist, though officials with the Canadian team believe she should have won the semi.

Gonda's Beijing Olympic Games are over unless Zajc makes the final, in which case the Canadian would be pulled back into the repechage and will have a shot at a bronze medal.

Gonda, who was born in Hungary and lives in Port Moody, B.C., won gold at the 2006 Korea Open, came fifth at the 2004 Olympic Games in Athens and took gold at the 2004 Pan American Games.



With just one of these kicks alone, she should've won:
http://multimedia.thestar.com//images/06/db/4242e2514e16bcaf7037ee02199c.jpeg
http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/sports/photos/2008/08/19/taekwondo-aug-20-392.jpg

mersar
Aug 20, 2008, 6:54 AM
I'm not too sure on the specifics either, but I watched it and agreed that something seemed fishy. Hopefully the protest succeeds, even if the result is a rematch no matter the outcome.

salvius
Aug 20, 2008, 7:01 AM
Anyone see the Dominican vs Italy in boxing a few days ago? It was the most ridiculous point counting in the world.

mersar
Aug 20, 2008, 7:23 AM
Sounds like the protest was denied :(

Wooster
Aug 20, 2008, 1:36 PM
Weak. I watched the match. She was robbed.

northwest2k
Aug 20, 2008, 1:53 PM
Nastia Luiken was robbed too. I'm starting to hate these Olympics purely because of the judging

kirjtc2
Aug 20, 2008, 2:02 PM
Any sport with judging should be dropped from the Olympics....it's just too hard to keep personal bias and politics out of it.

It's disheartening to see so many people's dreams crushed by people with an agenda.

HomeInMyShoes
Aug 20, 2008, 2:40 PM
Any sport with judging should be dropped from the Olympics....it's just too hard to keep personal bias and politics out of it.

It's disheartening to see so many people's dreams crushed by people with an agenda.

Some days I totally agree with that first sentiment and the second sentiment could be applied to so many things in life.

The Chemist
Aug 20, 2008, 3:49 PM
Nastia Luiken was robbed too. I'm starting to hate these Olympics purely because of the judging

On the Olympics thread in the Skybar there's an explanation as to why the Chinese gymnast won the gold over Liukin - you may not like it but they were following the correct rules.

In the case of this match, however, the judging was horrible. The Canadian was taking it to the Swedish athlete, but still somehow ended up losing. Terrible, terrible judging.

northwest2k
Aug 20, 2008, 3:52 PM
On the Olympics thread in the Skybar there's an explanation as to why the Chinese gymnast won the gold over Liukin - you may not like it but they were following the correct rules.

In the case of this match, however, the judging was horrible. The Canadian was taking it to the Swedish athlete, but still somehow ended up losing. Terrible, terrible judging.

She got robbed a bunch of times by the judges though.

DC83
Aug 20, 2008, 4:10 PM
Have you watched these olympics? The Chinese are blatantly cheating ie: 10-12 y/os Gymnasts who are apaprently of age b/c their Chinese-Government-Issued Passports seem to check out... bs.

KrisYYC
Aug 20, 2008, 7:12 PM
Looks like the Chinese approach the olympics the same way they handle their business dealings.... cheating.

Can't say I'm surprised. Why such a country is allowed to host the olympics is beyond me.

Rusty van Reddick
Aug 20, 2008, 8:43 PM
I'm not sure how having a ten-year-old competing is an "advantage." But I also think that there should be no judged competitions in the Olympics period.

slide_rule
Aug 20, 2008, 8:45 PM
*sighs* some people just drink the kool aid when it comes to smearing the other team.

there are accusations right now, nothing has been proven. similarly, if nbc/abc/cbs/fox were so motivated, they could easily accuse michael phelps (or more likely, a successful foreign athlete) of being on roids, simply because he's winning.

Ayreonaut
Aug 20, 2008, 9:43 PM
I'm not sure how having a ten-year-old competing is an "advantage." But I also think that there should be no judged competitions in the Olympics period.

So you'd completely remove gymnastics, all combat sports, and diving from the Olympics? And in the winter, there's snowboarding, some skiing events, and figure skating.

There will always be some poor judging, but I don't think you could remove it from the Olympics entirely.

northwest2k
Aug 20, 2008, 9:47 PM
There should be some sort of punishment for the judges. I know the article said a judge would be punished if convicted of an offense but so far we haven't heard of any judges getting reprimanded. Seriously these judges sound like they are all powerful. They can give out shitty scores all over the place and nothing happens to them. We should revolt :twoguns:

Ayreonaut
Aug 20, 2008, 9:54 PM
They should judge while hooked up to a polygraph machine. Maybe if they know that they're being unfair as they give a score their heart rate will increase. :shrug:

Rusty van Reddick
Aug 20, 2008, 10:07 PM
So you'd completely remove gymnastics, all combat sports, and diving from the Olympics? And in the winter, there's snowboarding, some skiing events, and figure skating.

Yep. If I were in charge, yep.

Ayreonaut
Aug 20, 2008, 10:21 PM
Wow, so the Olympics would just become one big race meet. I dunno, I guess we differ there.

OhioGuy
Aug 20, 2008, 10:40 PM
Yep. If I were in charge, yep.

Boo!!!! :maddown:

Punishing the athletes with exclusion from the Olympics for something they don't control. That's fair. :sly:

hammergirl
Aug 21, 2008, 1:15 AM
With the figure skating scandal, the French judge admitted she'd been told to vote a certain way. The 2002 results were determined at the 2001 World Championships.

Rico Rommheim
Aug 21, 2008, 1:23 AM
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