Future Tourism Draws for HRM

[Dmajackson]

What do you think HRM/NS should invest in to draw more tourists to the Halifax? Just to make it broader you can also include nearby counties/towns outside HRM.

I think a moderately sized aquarium (Queen's Landing) first then an amusement park, a bigger Museum of the Atlantic, more paths/walkways in Halifax/Dartmouth, opening George's Island every summer, advertise nearby areas more, ect.

What do you think we should do to improve tourism in/around HRM?

EDIT: I made a mistake while making the poll so the poll title should say which ONE of the following...

[MonctonRad]

I know that it is probably the least ambitious option, but I have always been fascinated with Georges Island.....so close but yet so far.

Seriously, the fortifications on the island should be completely restored and the island should be connected to the Halifax waterfront boardwalk by a water taxi service, probably in the vicinity of the old Nova Scotia Power generating station.

I think this could make an important southern linchpin to the boardwalk. The north of the boardwalk would be anchored by the casino and by Historic Properties. The south would be anchored by Georges Island and by Pier 21.

Anyway, my vote is for Georges Island, although several other options that you have presented also have considerable merit (except for the CFL team, that's going to Moncton) :D

[spaustin]

The easiest thing we could do would be to open Georges Island! With Pier 21 there is a natural cluster of museums on that end of the waterfront. Georges Islands fits Pier 21 well in another way; it was used as a quarantine station for a while. I would envision ferries to Georges Island departing from Pier 21 or very nearby. It could be done to also give people a "taste" of arriving at Pier 21 like immigrants did before. Georges Island could compliment our existing museums quite well as well as giving tourists a pretty place to check out Halifax from.

Although I think Georges Island is the best quick thing we could do, I would love to see investment in a proper aquarium somewhere on the waterfront in either Halifax or Dartmouth (could give the Dartmouth waterfront something to work with besides the odd event at Alderney).

Edit: Apparently you took the words out of my mouth by just a minute or two Simdad... I mean MonctonRad :)

[MonctonRad]

The easiest thing we could do would be to open Georges Island! With Pier 21 there is a natural cluster of museums on that end of the waterfront. Georges Islands fits Pier 21 well in another way; it was used as a quarantine station for a while. I would envision ferries to Georges Island departing from Pier 21 or very nearby. It could be done to also give people a "taste" of arriving at Pier 21 like immigrants did before. Georges Island could compliment our existing museums quite well as well as giving tourists a pretty place to check out Halifax from.

Although I think Georges Island is the best quick thing we could do, I would love to see investment in a proper aquarium somewhere on the waterfront in either Halifax or Dartmouth (could give the Dartmouth waterfront something to work with besides the odd event at Alderney).

Edit: Apparently you took the words out of my mouth by just a minute or two Simdad... I mean MonctonRad :)


Good to see you again too SPA....I mean Spaustin.

[hfx_chris]

I picked the major sports team auction. Would love to see a CFL team in town, even though I'm not a huge football fan myself.
Of course I could only pick one, but an obvious one on the list that would need to be accomplished before a major team could be attracted, would be the construction of a new stadium (at Shannon Park of course ;))

[Keith P.]

I picked the major sports team auction. Would love to see a CFL team in town, even though I'm not a huge football fan myself.
Of course I could only pick one, but an obvious one on the list that would need to be accomplished before a major team could be attracted, would be the construction of a new stadium (at Shannon Park of course ;))

I've concluded that is a lousy place for a stadium. Too cold because of being on the harbor, and on the wrong side of same.

I am convinced now that the best place for a stadium -- and maybe a new arena as well -- is the large block of land that would encompass the existing Forum/Civic arena site and the unused portions of the Windsor/Willow Park lands across Young St. That area would be perfect for something like that.

[hfx_chris]

That wouldn't be a bad location, but I take offense to your comment that basically boils down to "if it isn't in Halifax, it's in the wrong place" - tell me you don't feel the same way about things like potential office developments in downtown Dartmouth, or even Kings Wharf...
Yes it's next to the water, yes it might get a little chilly in the autumn or early spring, but I don't think that's a huge problem, it can get cold anywhere. Plus it's right next to the 111 and the MacKay bridge, so one would think that would be a better location than Windsor Street, which last I checked isn't part of the 100-series highway system which links all corners of the province.

[hfx_chris]

Also, how do you plan to incorporate the Wilow Park land in with the Forum land? Are you going to close Young Street, or build the stadium on top of the street? There's no way you can fit a stadium where the forum is, that's a relatively narrow strip of land, and I doubt the other land owners on that block would like their businesses razed...

[Wishblade]

Also, how do you plan to incorporate the Wilow Park land in with the Forum land? Are you going to close Young Street, or build the stadium on top of the street? There's no way you can fit a stadium where the forum is, that's a relatively narrow strip of land, and I doubt the other land owners on that block would like their businesses razed...

I don't think some people have any idea how much land a stadium actually takes up. I know people have suggested having it on the penninsula, but I dont think theres a hope in hell of it ever happening. It's going to have to be located next to a major highway (100 series).

[someone123]

I've mentioned the Young Street option before as well. I think it could work. Yes, the stadium uses tons of land, but Willow/Windsor Park are quite large (as in half a square km) and underused. The area has good access to both bridges and would be easy to serve by transit.

That being said, I don't think Shannon Park is a bad site either. It is still close to the centre of the city, is practically a blank slate, and can be served by ferries. In some ways I prefer it since it would be kind of an interesting spot and would have a more predictable impact on the city.

If the third bridge were built the stadium could go out by Shearwater, although that area isn't as nice.

[hfx_chris]

I don't think some people have any idea how much land a stadium actually takes up. I know people have suggested having it on the penninsula, but I dont think theres a hope in hell of it ever happening. It's going to have to be located next to a major highway (100 series).

You might, might be able to shoe horn one in, but forget about parking. You wouldn't even have room left over for a parkade, let alone a parking lot.

Shannon Park could seriously work...plus it's next to a 100 series :)

[hfx_chris]

Yes, the stadium uses tons of land, but Willow/Windsor Park are quite large (as in half a square km) and underused. The area has good access to both bridges and would be easy to serve by transit.

Good luck getting DND to part with the land though. You know what happened with Shearwater; the extra land sat without being used for years, finally was sold off to Canada Lands Corp where it sat for years again, and now that we think they're finally doing something with it, DND announces they might want it back... If you gambled on putting a stadium or anything else for that matter at Willow Park, you'll be waiting a long time.

[terrynorthend]

You might, might be able to shoe horn one in, but forget about parking. You wouldn't even have room left over for a parkade, let alone a parking lot.

Shannon Park could seriously work...plus it's next to a 100 series :)

Yes I also think Shannon Park is the best bet. A complex could fit into Windsor Park, but parking and access would not be ideal..not insurmountable, but not ideal.

As for weather..it would be no better or worse in Shannon Park or Windsor Park. Shearwater may suffer from more fog days though.

Now if we can just get a plan into action..and for God's sake, keep the designers from making it look like a sailboat or from putting a lighthouse motif in it... :jester:

[Keith P.]

That wouldn't be a bad location, but I take offense to your comment that basically boils down to "if it isn't in Halifax, it's in the wrong place" - tell me you don't feel the same way about things like potential office developments in downtown Dartmouth, or even Kings Wharf...
Yes it's next to the water, yes it might get a little chilly in the autumn or early spring, but I don't think that's a huge problem, it can get cold anywhere. Plus it's right next to the 111 and the MacKay bridge, so one would think that would be a better location than Windsor Street, which last I checked isn't part of the 100-series highway system which links all corners of the province.


It has nothing to do with office developments in downtown Dartmouth so don't muddy the question with nonsensical straw men.

Let's look at the facts.

Any location adjacent to the harbor is colder than one even a few blocks away. Stadiums built on large bodies of water in cold climates are always complained about. Cleveland Stadium. Candlestick Park. Have you ever walked the boardwalk downtown in winter? It's a lot colder than, say, SGR.

Second, the only thing the location has going for it is that it is theoretically available. But why would you place it in a spot where the majority of your clientele has to cross a 70 km/h bridge with absolutely horrible access ramps and then queue up at toll booths to get there? And then pay a toll and cope with the same bottlenecks to get home? Those would be far more difficult to fix than any potential issue with Young St. Then you put another big chunk of your clentele on Magazine Hill, one of the worst roads in the area that has to deal with heavy traffic loads. It just makes no sense.

[Keith P.]

I don't think some people have any idea how much land a stadium actually takes up. I know people have suggested having it on the penninsula, but I dont think theres a hope in hell of it ever happening. It's going to have to be located next to a major highway (100 series).


I don't think some people have any idea how it is possible to locate a stadium in a city, the way almost all the newest stadiums built in recent years have been.

OK, apologies for the sarcasm. But I have a hobby that deals with stadiums, so I know a little bit about them and your tone didn't sit well with me. Take a look at this:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=minnesota+twins+stadium&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=41.296233,103.183594&ie=UTF8&filter=0&ll=44.981906,-93.277509&spn=0.004098,0.009613&t=h&z=17

See that parking lot in the center of the image? That is the site of the new ballpark now under construction for the Minnesota Twins. That isn't a huge parcel of land. Add to that the Forum site for a new arena and parking, and it is very doable.

BTW, you can scroll down a little bit in that pic to see the site of the Target Center, a 20,000 capacity arena.

The days of building stadiums out in the boonies with acres of parking surrounding it are pretty much over.

Also BTW, arenas are often built over roads or other transportation links. TD Banknorth in Boston is on top of North Station, and MSG in New York is above Penn Station. Quite doable.

[hfx_chris]

Any location adjacent to the harbor is colder than one even a few blocks away. Stadiums built on large bodies of water in cold climates are always complained about. Cleveland Stadium. Candlestick Park. Have you ever walked the boardwalk downtown in winter? It's a lot colder than, say, SGR. And I'm saying I don't think it will be that bad. Shannon Park was the site they were planning to build the CWG stadium, if it went through - surely they must have known about the cold as well, yet that was still the plan.

But why would you place it in a spot where the majority of your clientele has to cross a 70 km/h bridge with absolutely horrible access ramps and then queue up at toll booths to get there? And then pay a toll and cope with the same bottlenecks to get home?And you think Willow Park/The Forum would be any better? What's the speed limit of Robie Street? Windsor Street? Bayers Road? Kempt Road? None of those streets have 70 km/h speed limits. The access ramps to Princess Margaret work, they're not idea - and yes they should be upgraded, regardless of what happens with Shannon park - but they do work. More than likely one of the entrances to the stadium would be opposite the offramp from the bridge anyway, and with a fine tuned set of traffic lights it shouldn't be a major problem.
Bottlenecks are going to happen no matter where it goes - if it goes in Shannon Park, yeah there will be bottlenecks around the interchanges. If it went in the middle of nowhere by the airport, there's going to be bottlenecks. If it goes in the Willow Park area, the roads in the immediate vicinity will be jammed - look at the Metro Centre, when an event gets out it can take a while to exit the parkade, but as I'm saying it matters not where it's built, that's going to happen. Ever notice though that once you get out of the parkade and off of Market Street, it goes relatively smoothly? Well, I do at least.
Your assertion that the majority of users will be coming from the Halifax side is just an assumption. A lot of people will come from Halifax and beyond, but a lot of people will be coming from Dartmouth and out east, or from Bedford and from areas down the 101, from Fall River and areas beyond down the 102, maybe as far away as Truro. All of those people could benefit from it being on the Dartmouth side.

Then you put another big chunk of your clentele on Magazine Hill, one of the worst roads in the area that has to deal with heavy traffic loads. It just makes no sense.I've said this before and I'll say it again - when an event happens at the Metro Centre, when does it happen? Do Moosehead games begin at 8am? Do they get out at 4:30? These events do not happen at rush hour, so claiming that roads are going to be congested is absurd. I'm assuming you would rather folks from Sackville and beyond come in the 102; well, they'll still have to contend with Bayers Road and the traffic jams that would surely be caused around the stadium... which brings me back to my previous point that traffic jams are going to happen in the immediate vicinity of the stadium no matter where it is, but at least next to a 100-series highway there's a chance in hell it will dissipate quickly.

[hfx_chris]

Also BTW, arenas are often built over roads or other transportation links. TD Banknorth in Boston is on top of North Station, and MSG in New York is above Penn Station. Quite doable.Arenas, but we're talking about a stadium. Excuse my apparent ignorance in regards to sporting facilities, but don't stadiums typically have a larger footprint? Plus do you really think HRM would do something forward thinking like that?

According to those examples you gave, Target Center, an arena, could fit on the Forum lands, but not much else. Room for a parkade, and that's it. Dunno how you could get a stadium in there.
The Willow Park site you probably could, but parking could be tight. But regardless, DND would never give up any of that land, so we all might as well forget about that idea.

The days of building stadiums out in the boonies with acres of parking surrounding it are pretty much over.Exactly why Shannon Park would be perfect. I too was laughing at the notion some people had that a stadium should be built out by the airport...

[RyanNS]

Now if we can just get a plan into action..and for God's sake, keep the designers from making it look like a sailboat or from putting a lighthouse motif in it... :jester:

I'm fine with the sailboat motif as long as they can make it look half as good as this :tup:

http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/h/f/c/portsmouth_fc_08.jpg

[terrynorthend]

I'm fine with the sailboat motif as long as they can make it look half as good as this :tup:

http://www.building.co.uk/Pictures/web/h/f/c/portsmouth_fc_08.jpg

Cool, where is that, Dubai? Whose rendering? Don't forget the photo credit, otherwise they may pull the photo down.

[RyanNS]

Cool, where is that, Dubai? Whose rendering? Don't forget the photo credit, otherwise they may pull the photo down.

Ooops my bad

http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3085673

It's a proposal for Portsmouth F.C.'s new stadium.

Architects Herzog & de Meuron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fratton_Park

Again, before work could begin the plans were dropped, with yet another proposal announced on April 25, 2007 that would see a 36,000 capacity stadium on reclaimed mud flats close to Portsmouth Naval Base. These plans were ambitious and included creating a leisure village around the stadium, complete with 1500 waterfront apartments as well as restaurants and other facilities. The proposal for a new stadium was widely supported, although cautiously by many that were conscious that the waterfront location proposed in the outline plans would be surrounded on three sides, by the Naval Base, harbour itself and railway, thus leaving only one end for access by residents and supporters. Critics also pointed out that the mudflats the stadium was proposed to sit on was close to an area of Site of Special Scientific Interest, would be difficult to get to by road and had nowhere near the amount of car parking facilities needed for such an enterprise [Portsmouth is an Island, with road access by only three routes from the north, and the waterfront site was close to the south-west extremity of the island].

These plans were also dropped before work could begin. The club had undertaken consultation and there were a number of objectors to the proposal, no least about the problems that 36,000 fans would cause to the local travel infrastructure. The Royal Navy also said that the proposal would cause problems with the proposed introduction of their new super-size aircraft carriers.

Currently, the fourth set of plans proposes building the stadium and leisure/residential complex on Horsea Island. Again, this proposal has local support, but again, it suffers from less than ideal transport links. At the beginning of January 2008, the plans have not yet been formally submitted for planning approval, so it is unclear when the stadium might see the first game.

[DuffMan]

I think a stadium would be the biggest draw, because there would be so many spinoffs. With a stadium of say 25-30,000 seats, we would almost certainly get a CFL team - the CFL has often shown a lot of interest in Halifax and we have a proven market for sports and football. Also, there would be other events like hosting the occasional international soccer game (World Cup qualifying for example), track meets, more frequent big ticket concerts.

In my opinion, the Metro Centre does not really need to be replaced - it is a good size for our market (we are never going to get an NHL team, and having 7,000 fans for a Mooseheads game in a bigger 15,000 arena would not have much atmostphere). The stadium is key.

The sad reality is that we are no closer to getting a stadium now than we were 25 years ago. I just don't see where the money is going to come from to build it.

[Dmajackson]

I say an aquarium would suite Halifax as a great tourism draw. We are a city on the water, we rely heavily on the water as a way of living.

We have the oldest saltwater ferry in North America, we have a big harbour, widely known for our shipbuilding past, and among other things we have a world-class oceanography institution (BIO).

An aquarium is a natural fit for HRM. Having a moderately sized aquarium in central Halifax (Queen's Landing area) would further strengthen our relationship to our Harbour. Imagine having an area filled with local water-life like crabs, lobsters, mussells, fish, jellyfish, octupus, ect.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have a stadium. All I'm saying is that we should build an aquarium then focus on our big dream of having a national sports league team.