[Wheelingman04]

Does anyone have a list of the highest and lowest poverty by city or metro area? Thanks.

[Marcu]

wikipedia might

[EastSideHBG]

I don't have a list on hand, but you may find this article a little helpful. Philadelphia/metro ranked pretty darn bad unfortunately:


Posted on Wed, Aug. 27, 2008

Next U.S. census could show more poverty in Phila. area

By Alfred Lubrano, John Duchneskie and Matt Katz
Inquirer Staff Writers

Americans enjoyed a small bump in income last year, while the nation's poverty rate stayed virtually the same - 12.5 percent, according to U.S. Census Bureau data released yesterday.

Among the seven counties surrounding Philadelphia, some got richer and some got poorer, while Philadelphia held its spot as the ninth-poorest big city in America - with nearly one in four people living in poverty.

Once again, New Jersey trailed Maryland as the wealthiest state in median household income. Pennsylvania ranked 26th.

But this year-old snapshot has already been superseded by rough and powerful economic times - a tsunami swamping the relative good news about rising income and steady poverty.

When the Census Bureau eventually crunches 2008 numbers, analysts say it will see what many already know: Life is getting tougher.

"The year 2008 will be drastically worse than '06 or '07," said Carey Morgan, director of Philadelphia's Coalition Against Hunger.

"The numbers for this year will see a rise in poverty," said Mark Price, labor economist with the Keystone Research Center in Harrisburg.

"I have to be honest with you: 2006 and 2007 were bad, but not as bad as this year," said Alice Peterson, executive administrator of Today's Child Learning Center, a daycare facility in Sharon Hill, Delaware County. "People are struggling more than in '06. They're struggling double."

Nowhere is that more true than in Camden, where 38.2 percent of people lived in poverty in 2007. The census ranked it the second poorest among the nation's mid-size cities, though it cautioned that there was a statistical dead heat among the list's four most impoverished.

Residents offered a laundry list of reasons they believe they are struggling: higher food and gas prices, a lack of affordable housing, people illegally in the country taking jobs, and a bias against hiring people with criminal records.

Grace Maldonado, 30, who supports five children on her Wal-Mart salary and whose husband is in jail, says she cannot always buy birthday presents for them.

"They understand as long as they get the birthday cake," she said. "I'm making it work."

The census data cover 2007, and evidence suggests that things in Camden are worse in 2008. Cathedral Kitchen, the largest soup kitchen in the city, is serving 1,000 more meals a month, said executive director Karen Talarico. More visitors stop by on their way to work.

"They're coming here to save some money to pay their bus pass, to fill their gas tank," she said.

If past is prologue, it helps to see how things were just last year.

The median household income in America (adjusted for inflation) had risen 1.3 percent over that of 2006, reaching $50,233, according to the census' Current Population Survey. For blacks and non-Hispanic white households, this represented "the first measured real increase" in annual household income since 1999, the census reported.

Perhaps one harbinger of bad times was among poor children. The number of children under 18 living in poverty nationally jumped from 12.8 million in 2006 to 13.3 million in 2007.

Closer to home, the number of people living in poverty in Philadelphia decreased - from 354,135 to 333,142, according to the census' American Community Survey.

Similarly, poverty rates decreased in Chester, Montgomery, Burlington and Camden Counties, while they increased in Bucks, Gloucester and Delaware Counties.

In Delaware County especially, poverty jumped - from 8.5 percent to 9.8 percent, even as median income climbed from $55,000 to $60,000, evidence of a growing gap between rich and poor.

In Gloucester County, there was also a paradoxical increase in both median income and the poverty rate.

More food stamps are being issued, said Ed Smith, superintendent of the Gloucester County Division of Social Services, even as younger families with higher incomes move into the county.

He called Gloucester County a "microcosm of the nation."

"The gap between the rich and poor will become bigger," said Morgan, of the Coalition Against Hunger.

Don't expect anything to close the gap soon, said Price, of Keystone Research Center.

In Pennsylvania, the top 1 percent of families received 79 percent of income growth in recent years, he said. "And we expect the inequality numbers in Pennsylvania to get worse," he said.

"I expect poverty will go up in every one of Philadelphia's suburban counties when 2008 numbers are calculated," said David Elesh, principal investigator of Temple University's Metropolitan Philadelphia Indicators Project. "The decrease in Philadelphia's poverty seen between 2006 and 2007 will be erased."

Peterson, of Today's Child in hard-hit Delaware County, said that this year, half the families who use her day-care center are behind in payments, something she had never seen before.

Some parents get government subsidies and pay only $5 a week in copayments.

"They are behind, and their children may be terminated from the program because they can't pay $20 a month for day care," Peterson said. "That's how bad it's gotten."

Happily for 25-year-old Kadi Schenk, 2008 is looking better. In 2007, she was laid off from her job managing a cell-phone store, and was unable to get child-care subsidies for her children, ages 4 and 2. Her parents have jobs and cannot look after the children.

"Oh, it was so hard," she said. "I'd go on interview after interview. . . . A resume without a college degree didn't help." Now she works for an insurance agency.

"And," she announced joyfully, "I can move out of my parents' house soon."

[Wheelingman04]

^I really appreciate you posting that great article, especially since it is Pennsylvania oriented.

[EastSideHBG]

No problem! :)

[JDRCRASH]

I read in the LATimes that Los Angeles poverty pop. is actually shrinking, while the overall nation's poverty is growing.

[urbanfan89]

I'm pretty sure the poverty rate in Kinshasa is over 90%.

[FREKI]

By what standards are we talking..?

[sentinel]

I read in the LATimes that Los Angeles poverty pop. is actually shrinking, while the overall nation's poverty is growing.

Well considering that prices are so prohibitively high in LA and the surrounding area (even in this recession), I'm not surprised that the poverty gap is shrinking because the majority of are being priced out of the area and having to move out further and further away, and I wouldn't be surprised if many leave the area completely. Unfortunately I think this is also a national trend, as gentrification within city-limits is making it harder for the non-upper middle class/upper class majority to sustain a viable lifestyle - it's slowly happening in Chicago I fear and I'm sure it will continue happening elsewhere such as in LA. There has to be some type of balance between truly affordable housing and maintaining a healthy urban way of life..

[JDRCRASH]

Yes. In fact, IMO, especially in LA.....as well as other old major cities like Chicago, NY, Boston, Philadelphia, and San Francisco.

Since its seems clear that over the next 10-20 years, a 1920's scale high-rise boom (perhaps as many as 500 high-rises U/C at once) in Los Angeles is getting pretty close at hand, especially as the economy rebounds, it is vital that we create affordable housing, but not too affordable.....if you know what I mean.

IOW, I think the lowest prices of 1,500 sq. ft. lofts in the Inner City should be around $200,000. But keep in mind; one reason why we are seeing $500,000+ lofts is because that assumes that the people who live there don't use cars, or rarely drive it because they may often take the Bus or rail lines, which is something this town needs to get used too.

[sentinel]

^^Perhaps, but I think you're missing the point that I was trying to make, in that poverty still exists even in LA, but as central urban areas become more and more gentrified and 'fixed up' those individuals, groups, families, etc., that cannot even afford to live where they currently are within LA proper are essentially being forced out farther and farther away, like what is happening in Chicago and other, older American urban centers.

Recently there was an article, for the life of me I can't recall where I read it, but it was talking about how one potential negative side-effect of the revitalization of inner cities in the U.S. is the "Paris effect" where essentially, the urban core, the City itself becomes so expensive that the poorest of the poor are relegated to the farthest reaches of the 'banlieue'(sp?) or suburbs, where prices are cheap, but job opportunities are potentially scarce, transportation takes longer to get anywhere, and things aren't necessarily better in terms of quality of life, but it's the only place where a lot of the poorest families can afford to live - in Paris the consequences have been pretty shitty, because a number of years ago there were massive riots in the suburbs because of reasons like that - granted the situation was also fueled heavily because of anti-immigrant/pro-immigrant clashes, but when economic opportunities and options become scarces, regardless of race, heritage, social background, one day the damn bursts in situations like that, and I really hope that doesn't happen here in the U.S. following the same pattern as in Paris.

[JDRCRASH]

I think one reason why people are afraid to create affordable housing is that it would increase crime activity and possibly homelessness, which is also dropping fast in Downtown LA.

[majidpucit123]

CITY POVERTY RATE
2007

Detroit 33.8%
Celeveland 29.5
Buffalo 28.7
El-Paso Taxas 27.4
Memphis Tenn 26.2
Miami 25.5
Milwaukee 24.4
Newark 23.9
Philadelphia 23.8
Cincinnati 23.5

[JDRCRASH]

Wow those numbers are incredibly high.

[steel]

CITY POVERTY RATE
2007 relative size of city to metro expressed as %

Detroit 33.8% - 28% Wayne County
Celeveland 29.5 - 21% Cuyahoga County
Buffalo 28.7 - 25% Erie County
El-Paso Taxas 27.4 - 83% El Paso County
Memphis Tenn 26.2 57% Shelby County
Miami 25.5 - 16% Dade County
Milwaukee 24.4 - 35% Milwaukee County
Newark 23.9 - 13% Essex County
Philadelphia 23.8 - 24% Philadelphia County
Cincinnati 23.5 - 21% Hamilton County

These stats are interesting as a way to view concentrations of poverty within a metro but are worthless for evaluating the metro wealth. When you look at the poverty relative to the metro population as a whole you see that Memphis and especially El-Paso are standouts for poverty.

When you look at poverty based on county populations you see that most of these are not even on the poorest list

10 Poorest Counties over 250,000 (% in poverty)
1. Hidalgo County, TX (43.6)
2. Cameron County, TX (35.8)
3. El Paso County, TX (32.3)
4. Bronx County, NY (30.6)
5. Philadelphia County, PA (24.9)
6. Baltimore city, MD (23.9)
7. Orleans Parish, LA (23.2)
8. Kings County, NY (22.6)
9. Caddo Parish, LA (21.7)
10. St. Louis city, MO (21.6)

[Minato Ku]

Poverty rate in Paris metro area.

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/4817/povertyrateparisoz2.jpg
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8910/povertyratelegenday6.jpg

1. Paris or inner city 75
Inner suburbs
2 Haut de Seine 92
3 Seine Saint Denis 93
4 Val de Marne 94
Outer suburbs
5 Essonne 91
6 Yvelines 78
7 Val-d'Oise 95
8 Seine-et-Marne 77

Unlike the common through, inner Paris has the second highest poverty and unemployement rate of Ile de France.

[urbanactivistTX]

CITY POVERTY RATE
2007 relative size fo city to metro expressed as %

Detroit 33.8% - 28% Wayne County
Celeveland 29.5 - 21% Cuyahoga County
Buffalo 28.7 - 25% Erie County
El-Paso Taxas 27.4 - 83% El Paso County
Memphis Tenn 26.2 57% Shelby County
Miami 25.5 - 16% Dade County
Milwaukee 24.4 - 35% Milwaukee County
Newark 23.9 - 13% Essex County
Philadelphia 23.8 - 24% Philadelphia County
Cincinnati 23.5 - 21% Hamilton County

These stats are interesting as a way to view concentrations of poverty within a metro but are worthless for evaluating the metro wealth. When you look at the poverty relative to the metro population as a whole you see that Memphis and especially El-Paso are standouts for poverty.

When you look at poverty based on county populations you see that most of these are not even on the poorest list

10 Poorest Counties over 250,000 (% in poverty)
1. Hidalgo County, TX (43.6)
2. Cameron County, TX (35.8)
3. El Paso County, TX (32.3)
4. Bronx County, NY (30.6)
5. Philadelphia County, PA (24.9)
6. Baltimore city, MD (23.9)
7. Orleans Parish, LA (23.2)
8. Kings County, NY (22.6)
9. Caddo Parish, LA (21.7)
10. St. Louis city, MO (21.6)

Some of those counties are real shockers... I would have though NYC's poor were pushed out of the metro a long time ago.

For the Texas numbers, "poverty" is a two-way street. Many are day-laborers that have recently migrated to the US. They don't view themselves as impoverished (mostly b/c their standard of comparison is with relatives in Mexico). I think probably 20 or 30 years ago, some California counties would have dominated this list, but in today's terms, Texas is cheapest of the border states.

[Samwill89]

Don't list like these paint a broad brush? Are the 33% "impoverished" in El Paso, Tx making just as much as the 23% in New York's King County? If so, not taking into account the cost of living in an area is intellectually misleading.

[Crawford]

Don't list like these paint a broad brush? Are the 33% "impoverished" in El Paso, Tx making just as much as the 23% in New York's King County? If so, not taking into account the cost of living in an area is intellectually misleading.

Not really. The cost of living cannot be directly compared.

I would imagine that the poor in Kings County have a lower cost of living than in El Paso, because they don't own cars and they don't pay market rent. They all live in subsidized housing.

El Paso is overwhelmingly market housing, even for the poor.

[Crawford]

Some of those counties are real shockers... I would have though NYC's poor were pushed out of the metro a long time ago.

How would they be "pushed out"? Housing costs are irrelevent. They are overwhelmingly in non-market housing.


For the Texas numbers, "poverty" is a two-way street. Many are day-laborers that have recently migrated to the US. They don't view themselves as impoverished (mostly b/c their standard of comparison is with relatives in Mexico).

This is nonsense.

1. Day laborers are not restricted to Texas. They are everywhere. In fact, there are probably more in areas of lowest unemployment, rather than in proximity to the border.

2. There are many rich and middle class Mexicans. Mexicans are not unaware of relative differences in standards of living. Day laborers know they are poor.

3. The Census data does not capture undocumented immigrants working in cash economies.

[urbanactivistTX]

There's a world of difference between the perception of poverty and government classifications of poverty. The border towns between Texas and Mexico are obviously much poorer than the middle class of places like San Diego or Monterrey... that's not the point that I was trying to illustrate. I'm well aware that there are day laborers everywhere, and not just in Texas. It is an assumption to think that most of the day laborers are not rich, but a good assumption. If that were the case, then they could work with their family members instead of relying heavily on temporary positions.

It's also a good assumption that the Mexican citizens are making more money by coming to the US, otherwise they wouldn't be coming here in the first place. And true, the black market workforce is "undocumented", but...

a) any children that they have in the United States can claim to be US Citizens
b) many eventually manufacture illegal papers so that can obtain legal work, so then their salaries become documented (and 99 times out of 100, it's going to start as near-minimum wage work, which means they'd still be impoverished)
c) many of these families-- at least in the Houston area-- are internationally blended. Legal and illegal immigrants live in the same household. So again an assumption, but unless the legal workers are making a very substantial salary, then several people are living off of wages that most Naturalized American citizens would not. Supporting illegal family members increases poverty for the whole, including the legal workers.

But like I said in my original point "poverty is a two-way street"... so (again an assumption) the families may view themselves as doing better than they would have in Mexico.