[SteelTown]

New GO trains for Hamilton?

The Hamilton Spectator Wire Services

Hamilton could see express GO rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, as well as Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, every day.

That revelation comes from a confidential draft plan for combatting commuter congestion in the Toronto area.

The report calls for spending $55 billion over 25 years on a network of new subway light-rail lines, improved commuter rail, express bus routes and longer, wider roads.

The blueprint was drawn up by Metrolinx, the provincial transportation agency.

A copy was obtained by The Globe and Mail, which published details today.

Check back for further details later.

[SteelTown]

$55-billion Toronto transit plan sets stage for political battle

Proposal pits mayor against province over light-rail line

JEFF GRAY

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

September 3, 2008 at 3:39 AM EDT

A confidential draft plan for combatting commuter congestion in the Toronto region calls for spending $55-billion over 25 years on a network of new subway and light-rail lines, improved commuter rail, express bus routes and longer and wider roads.

The blueprint, drawn up by Metrolinx, the provincial transportation agency, also promises to set up a political fight between Mayor David Miller - who sits on the agency's board - and the province. The Metrolinx plan runs against the mayor's signature Transit City light-rail plan by calling for what the TTC has warned would be a prohibitively expensive subway-like transit line on Eglinton Avenue.

The Metrolinx plan, a copy of which was viewed by The Globe and Mail, is being presented to board members and provincial officials, including Premier Dalton McGuinty, this week.

It is more modest than other scenarios contemplated by Metrolinx, including one concept that would have cost $90-billion. The plan says it would cost $2.2-billion a year over 25 years, with most of the spending in the first 15 years. Many of the new transit lines it includes have been proposed, in one form or another, before, or were included in the province's $17.5-billion MoveOntario 2020 plan. The highlights are:

* Express GO Transit rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, all day, in both directions;

* Express rail service every 15 minutes to Pearson Airport from Union Station;

* A subway or subway-like "Metro" line along Eglinton Avenue;

* A "Downtown Core" east-west subway line;

* Thousands of kilometres of longer and wider roads, including the extension of Highway 407 east to Clarington, as well as extensions to the 404, 427 and 410;

* Local rapid-transit bus or light-rail services along major routes in Hamilton, Halton, Peel, York and Durham Regions;

* $500-million for "active transportation," such as bike lanes;

* Northward extensions of TTC light-rail lines planned for Jane Street and Don Mills north to Highway 7 in York Region;

* GO Transit commuter rail service expansions or improvements including routes to Niagara, Kitchener-Waterloo, Bowmanville and Aurora.

Metrolinx's 11-member board, made up mostly of Greater Toronto Area municipal politicians, with four seats from the city of Toronto, will debate the draft plan at a retreat this weekend in King City. Premier Dalton McGuinty is also scheduled to have a briefing on the plan this week, one source familiar with the plan said. A final-draft version, which may include modifications to the current plan, is to be presented this month for public consultations.

Other potentially controversial policies under consideration by Metrolinx - such as road tolls for the 400-series highways or new taxes on parking spots or gasoline - are to be presented in a separate financial plan.

For now, the revisions to the TTC's Transit City plan will likely generate the most political heat, as public meetings on the mayor's proposed light-rail lines, including a partly tunnelled line on Eglinton, are already going ahead.

While the Premier previously appeared to endorse the city's light-rail agenda, which is now expected to cost about $10-billion, Metrolinx is supposed to fine-tune the region's transportation plan and set priorities for provincial funding. Mr. Miller campaigned on the plan to run new, more modern streetcars along a partly tunnelled route on Eglinton, so scrapping that for a subway would put Toronto's mayor and Metrolinx on a collision course.

Adam Giambrone, the city councillor who chairs the TTC and also sits on the Metrolinx board, said yesterday he had not seen a copy of the plan. But he reiterated the TTC's objection to a subway along Eglinton, which he said is not warranted given the projected ridership numbers and would cost as much as $10-billion compared with a light-rail line with an estimated $2.2-billion price tag.

He warned it would also take much longer to build, meaning it might not happen at all - the fate met by the last subway planned for Eglinton, upon which construction had already begun before it was cancelled in 1995 by the newly elected provincial Progressive Conservative government of Mike Harris.

"I think we have said very clearly that we are not going to build a Metro or a subway on Eglinton," Mr. Giambrone said.

Metrolinx chairman Rob MacIsaac has argued previously that Eglinton is busy enough to warrant more than just a light-rail line.

[FairHamilton]

* Express GO Transit rail service from downtown Toronto to Hamilton, Oshawa, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Mississauga, running every 15 minutes, all day, in both directions;

Great news if it happens.

On a side note, I heard yesterday that GO Transit is eliminating Rush Hour Bus service between Hamilton and Union Station on January 1, 2009.

[SteelTown]

That would be extremely foolish. Not until GO Train Express is a reality and it'll likely take YEARS and many phases.

Look how long it took just to add another track to Hamilton from Aldershot.

[raisethehammer]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[go_leafs_go02]

I highly doubt it. Even with traffic delays, taking the bus right now is alot quicker than taking the bus to aldershot/burlington and the train from there on in.

[FairHamilton]

It's Rush Hour bus service being eliminated, they'll still be running non-rush hour bus service Union to Hamilton (Hamilton to Union).

The elimination of the Rush Hour bus service will be because of the additional train service from the complete the platform work in December at GO Centre.

I view this a minus for Hamilton. One of the unique things for Hamilton, over other cities in our area, is the bus/train option at rush hour. And most afternoons it's quicker taking the bus, then taking the train Union to GO Centre.

[raisethehammer]

no surprise...Hamilton is used to getting screwed by 'provincial' or 'federal' agencies.

[DC83]

Why would they eliminate Rush Hour bus service? It's always the bussiest. And what does traffic have anything to do with it? Every time there's congestion on the QEW it takes Hwy407. It adds about 10mins to the ride, but saves the hassle of waiting in line on a highway.

I don't believe they'll remove rush hour bus service EVER. If they do, they'll be bringing it back real quick!

Great news re: the $$$$... but 25 years!?!?! Come on! I'll be 50!

[FairHamilton]

Why would they eliminate Rush Hour bus service? It's always the bussiest. And what does traffic have anything to do with it? Every time there's congestion on the QEW it takes Hwy407. It adds about 10mins to the ride, but saves the hassle of waiting in line on a highway.

As I understand it, the reason for cancelling the rush hour bus service is because it's also being served by the trains. When they expand the train service when the platform work at GO Centre is complete they will push all the bus riders to the trains.

There's traffic before the 403 (where they access the 407) as well......... Sometimes it can take 10 - 15 minutes just to get onto the Gardiner, and 25 minutes to get to the Humber River. I ride the GO bus every evening so I know all their alternates (The Dome, Evans, Going Shopping, 403, 427, DVP, 407 and a few others). Usually quicker than train, sometimes not.

Trust me, I think it sucks. But that's what I heard from a GO Transit employee (bus driver).

[DC83]

^^ no offense to bus drivers, but they aren't the best sources.
I often hear HSR drivers exagerate about stuff too... especially during their almost-strike.

This rumour is just that, a rumour... wait, a stupid rumour. To take 2 buses off the road per hour (which would be what, 150'ish people removed from the highways themselves?) would be a bigger mistake than concentrating all GO services at GO North Hamilton (LIUNA Stn).

It's not going to happen. That bus driver was wrong. Maybe MikeToronto can help us out here? He does work for GO afterall.

ps: I'm also very familiar w/ GO services. And I love that I live in Corktown and it takes me literally 60mins to get from my front door to Union Station.

[SteelTown]

Once the GO Station at James St North is up and running and the new platforms at Hunter is completed than I could see rush hour GO bus being eliminated.

[DC83]

^^ problem with QEW Express vs Lakeshore West Express is that the Train ISN'T express to Downtown Toronto at all... and it's also a lot lengthier than the QEW Express bus.

Lakeshore W runs express from Hamilton GO to Clarkson (I believe?), Then stops at every stop between Clarkson & Union (except Exhibition).

The only way I can see them eliminating this route is when the lines are electrified, and the strip between Burlington GO & Hamilton GO (North or TH&B) isn't so excrusiatingly long/slow/irritating!

[FairHamilton]

This rumour is just that, a rumour... wait, a stupid rumour. To take 2 buses off the road per hour (which would be what, 150'ish people removed from the highways themselves?) would be a bigger mistake than concentrating all GO services at GO North Hamilton (LIUNA Stn).

I agree it's just a rumour, like all kinds of other ones on this board. I'm just telling you what I heard.....

And it would take 4 buses off the road per hour, as they run every 15 minutes during rush hour. From a business perspective, it makes sense to me as when they add another train to the schedule the easiest way to get instant riders is to take away the buses.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[FairHamilton]

^^ problem with QEW Express vs Lakeshore West Express is that the Train ISN'T express to Downtown Toronto at all... and it's also a lot lengthier than the QEW Express bus.

Lakeshore W runs express from Hamilton GO to Clarkson (I believe?), Then stops at every stop between Clarkson & Union (except Exhibition).

The only way I can see them eliminating this route is when the lines are electrified, and the strip between Burlington GO & Hamilton GO (North or TH&B) isn't so excrusiatingly long/slow/irritating!

I don't think the train is currently referred to as 'Express', I don't know where you are getting that phrase. The news article from today, refers to the new proposed services as 'Express', but I don't think today's service has ever been referred to as 'Express'.

To set the record straight.
- Eastbound (morning) all stops to Oakville, and then express to Union.
- Westbound (evening) express to Clarkson and all stops to Hamilton GO Centre.

While I agree there is often time saving on the bus (it's generally my evening choice), it's not that significant (note these are scheduled times and are subject be hit, or missed).
- Train time - 1:09 to 1:19 (depends on departure time)
- Bus non-rush hour - 1 hour
- Bus rush hour - 1.5 hours (though it often beats it)

[Jon Dalton]

I think they should run a limited stop service off-peak that would stop 3 times between Hamilton and Toronto. Travel time could be an hour or less. Rush hour trains would continue to service intermediate stops with a half-express configuration. As travel demand increases and funding becomes available a local service could run parallel to the limited stop serving all destinations.

This would also encourage the local transit systems in Burlington, Oakville and Mississauga to develop efficient routes centralized around their major rail stations and would encourage those municipalities to intensify there.

As I understand they run express from Oakville because they're full at that point, not because it helps us get there faster.

[markbarbera]

A couple of GO Transit points:

All the Lakeshore West GO Trains currently running from Hamilton GO Centre are considered express trains by GO. They make all stops between Hamilton and Oakville, then express from Oakville(the 6:14 makes an additional stop at Clarkson before going express to Union). Other AM express trains include the 7:15, 8:00 and 8:44 from Burlington, the 7:58 train from Oakville, and the 7:58 train from Clarkson. All other trains make all stops (although most skip Exhibition when the CNE doesn't run), and are considered local trains. Likewise for the afternoon trains.

As far as express GO bus service is concerned, I can see the bus used for extra runs from Hamilton during the AM rush being dropped, but service during the AM rush certainly won't be dropped entirely. The extra AM train will likely reduce the frequency of AM express buses, but won't result in no express bus service in the morning. The driver talking to Fairhamilton was likely referreing to a cancelled express run, not the cancellation of all rush hour express service entirely. Perhaps Fairhamilton can clarify with the driver next time he sees him.

If the express train service every 15 minutes ever becomes a reality, then I can definitely see no Hamilton GO bus express service during rush hour. Which IMO would be a net benefit. Rush hour bus trips take just as much time, if not more time than the current train trips. Seeing as the buses run that frequently now, levels of service would remain the same. Train schedules will be more reliable than the bus, seeing as they are not impacted by highway volume, and the capacity levels would increase significantly. However, I don't see express service from Hamilton at this frequency becoming a reality by Jan 1, 2009.

[adam]

Ok I couldn't understand at least 2 posts above because they were ambiguous depending on the usage of THEN vs THAN:

THEN - a description of time
THAN - a comparison


Please don't be offended... its happened a lot and I can't hold back any longer! :hug:

[Jon Dalton]

What? I just read the above 5 posts and everyones' usage is correct. (those things piss me off too)

[go_leafs_go02]

so if they are to remove the hamilton express service..would it be an idea to run the buses from downtown hamilton through stoney creek to burlington? or what?

[SteelTown]

It's likely they'll have GO buses from Niagara to Hamilton. Perhaps Express buses to Hamilton as well.

[SteelTown]

All-day Go, rapid transit in cards for Hamilton

September 03, 2008
BY ROB FAULKNER
The Hamilton Spectator

A leaked draft plan for spending $55-billion over 25 years to fix Toronto-Hamilton congestion includes all-day GO train service between the cities every 15 minutes, and rapid transit lines here.

But a Metrolinx blueprint, a copy of which was viewed by The Globe and Mail, is not the most current version of a regional transportation plan scheduled for official release by September 26, the agency says.

“Based on some of their facts and figures, it does not reflect the current state of play of where we are at,” said Metrolinx chair Rob MacIsaac, former Burlington mayor. “What we are working with, even today, is a draft draft.”

The Globe described a plan that calls for spending billions on new subway and light-rail lines, improved commuter rail, express buses and expanded roads.

Declining to compare the leaked plan to the latest draft, MacIsaac said Hamilton will fare well.

“I’ve been saying all along that all-day, two-way frequent service on all GO lines is something I believe in, and it will be reflected in the plan,” he said.

“Metrolinx is quite supportive of rapid transit in Hamilton and looks forward to working with Hamilton to turn that into a reality.”

A Metrolinx update will be given to board members at a King City retreat this weekend. Hamilton Mayor Fred Eisenberger said he has not seen the plan, and thinks the Globe saw a previous version.

“But it’s consistent with what we have talked about (at the City of Hamilton). As you know, we already talked about bringing additional GO service to LIUNA Station, and are currently looking at bus or rail system for Hamilton.”

City staff are trying to land approval and cash for what may become a $1.1 billion light rail system.

Hamilton wants its light rail in the first five-year Metrolinx budget for 2009-13. Hamilton is considering a rail route westbound on King and eastbound on Main, and up James from the waterfront to the airport via the Claremont Access.

Eisenberger was reached for an interview yesterday during a tour of the new 15-kilometer Lynx light rail system in Charlotte, N.C.”

“As I stand here... in their light rail corridor, I see nothing but cranes,” he said, before heading to Portland and Calgary on the light-rail tour. “I think transformational is the right word.”

Eisenberger said the cost to the city of such a plan is unclear. MacIsaac said it’s unlikely cities will pay for new capital projects.

Reports described a system in which most of the $55 billion would be spent over 15 years with many of the new transit lines already mentioned in the province’s MoveOntario 2020 plan, an earlier announcement by the province that committed $11.5 billion of a $17.5 billion project list.

Hamilton rapid transit was noted in the MoveOntario 2020 project list, but the city awaits details on timing and funding. Metrolinx is intended to work out the details, timelines and implementation of the MoveOntario plan.

Even a mention of all-day trains and rapid transit raised hopes.

“It’s positive for Hamilton,” city councillor Brian McHattie said. “We seem to be in lock-step with Metrolinx in regards to their vision and our vision (unlike Toronto). We are a smaller city with a long history of transit, and they see some easy ways to invest here.”

[omro]

Is the second GO station near the old James Street station in the pipeline yet or is it a maybe still?

And can someone please remind me why the GO rail link from the Hunter Street station is only peak hours only, I think I read that it was purely lack of demand for the service, but I can't find where I thought I'd read that.

[DC83]

^^ the reason why there's so little service to the TH&B Stn (James S & Hunter) is b/c the lines run underground between McNab & Queen St and it's really expensive to widen that tunnel to fit more tracks for more trains.
The main use for this line (forget whether it's CN or CP's) is for freight which causes railway congestion.

What GO has been doing is expanding the over-night train storage area (near Walnut/Hunter) so more trains can leave in the morning (I think they're adding 2 per morning?).

I think the James North GO Stn is for sure? I believe it should be complete sometime next year?

[omro]

Ah, so the freight use in "off peak" hours prevents them using the lines for commuter trains?

[omro]

I think the James North GO Stn is for sure? I believe it should be complete sometime next year?

If it's going to be complete so fast the new station isn't going to be that impressive is it? :-(

Shame they can't make use of part of the old building still, but hey ho.

Definitely at James North? I thought there was some debate about it being somewhere further east?

[SteelTown]

Money has been set a side for a new GO Train terminal at James St North, $3 million.

But GO Trainsit is currently busy with the Hunter terminal, adding new platforms and storage space. Once they are done with that they'll focus on the James St North terminal.

[DC83]

If it's going to be complete so fast the new station isn't going to be that impressive is it? :-(

Shame they can't make use of part of the old building still, but hey ho.

Definitely at James North? I thought there was some debate about it being somewhere further east?

It's not going to be a Station but rather just a platform. Pretty standard commuter rail platform: a long rectangular slab of concrete with a couple shelters.

Something along the lines of this:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/73/218176727_faec6732f6.jpg?v=0
by rhygin on Flickr.com, http://flickr.com/photos/rhygin/218176727/

or this:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1049/838461856_5f511e0306.jpg?v=0
by Ryan Coleman on Flickr.com, http://flickr.com/photos/rycoleman/838461856/

There is plans to eventually expand eastward towards Niagara via Hamilton's East End & Stoney Creek, but that's a long-(long)-term project.

I bet once Metrolinx approves funding for the A-Line, the City will come up with a better station, or perhaps even use part of LIUNA Station, as a terminal for both A-Lines & GO Lakeshore West lines.

[omro]

Are the original platforms still there or were they demolished?

[raisethehammer]

^^ the reason why there's so little service to the TH&B Stn (James S & Hunter) is b/c the lines run underground between McNab & Queen St and it's really expensive to widen that tunnel to fit more tracks for more trains.


it was also very expensive to blast off a hunk of escarpment for a highway. it's about priorites, not money.

As for the new 'platform' at James North, let's hope they at least put up overhead shelters. Geez, I can't believe those pics of GO platforms with no covering.

whatever they are building at Hunter right now is larger than I expected. In the Walnut area you can see it taking shape. It's a big building. I guess it has to fit trains in it which makes sense for the size, I just wasn't thinking of it when construction started.
Nice to see investment in our rail system.

[MsMe]

it was also very expensive to blast off a hunk of escarpment for a highway. it's about priorites, not money.

And structural issues too no doubt. One must be very careful when blasting the rock. Look how many problems there has been with the rock sides on the side of the mountain and the retaining wall falling not long ago at the top near the circle.

[DC83]

Are the original platforms still there or were they demolished?

Hmm, I don't think they're still around at all.
This is LIUNA Station (James North GO)'s sat view:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=HAMILTON+ON&ie=UTF8&ll=43.266019,-79.864388&spn=0.002199,0.006158&t=h&z=18

I'm not old enough to remember any rail activity in this area, so I don't even know where the original platforms would have been? I'm assuming infront of the rectangular bldg jetting out from behind the Station. That, to me, seems to be where the old passengers loaded onto/out of trains.

I'm betting the City and GO will convert the land between James & McNab into parking, and probably not even build a pavillion. If VIA confirms using this platform, a small pavillion may be built ontop of the hill (where the cars are parked west of James).

[NuclearNerd]

I'm assuming infront of the rectangular bldg jetting out from behind the Station. That, to me, seems to be where the old passengers loaded onto/out of trains.

I'm not old enough to remember either, but I bet that rectangular extension ran over the train platforms, which would have been sidings off the South of the main line. That would explain the expanse of empty land on the East and West of James at track level

I agree about the future station design. For $3m, including siding, they probably won't build much more than a staircase and platform. I wonder how much effort they'll put into parking. The lot is only a tenth the size of Aldershot, and road access is more limited.

[geoff's two cents]

I agree about the future station design. For $3m, including siding, they probably won't build much more than a staircase and platform. I wonder how much effort they'll put into parking. The lot is only a tenth the size of Aldershot, and road access is more limited.

I also wonder how people are going to get there if it becomes an important destination for commuters - I'm not sure whether James N can handle a large influx of commuter traffic, but I could be wrong.

[omro]

I also wonder how people are going to get there if it becomes an important destination for commuters - I'm not sure whether James N can handle a large influx of commuter traffic, but I could be wrong.

They may

a) attempt to get some sort of access and throughput using the old station building if that's even still possible.

b) justify the building of a bigger and better new station in the James N area.

c) justify building a bigger and betetr station somewhere else in Hamilton along the line, perhaps the further east station that was mentioned I think at one point.

[FairHamilton]

I also wonder how people are going to get there if it becomes an important destination for commuters - I'm not sure whether James N can handle a large influx of commuter traffic, but I could be wrong.

The commuter trains (rush hour) will still be using GO Centre.

[FairHamilton]

As a FYI, last week was the first week of GO using 12 packs (12 cars vs. 10 cars) on the 7:04am train to Union.

At Hamilton GO Centre you have to access the end cars through the interior car connecting doors.

[SteelTown]

From what I gather is sounds like the city wants to build a parking garage at James St North.

It'll be the same deal with the parking garage for Education Square, city collects parking money to pay for the parking garage.

[DC83]

I also wonder how people are going to get there if it becomes an important destination for commuters - I'm not sure whether James N can handle a large influx of commuter traffic, but I could be wrong.

Well it (James North GO) would probably be the terminal station for the A-Line LRT route. So that's one option. Park anywhere along the line (Mountain Plaza Mall or any huge lot along Upper James), zip down to your GO on the LRT. Free parking.



c) justify building a bigger and betetr station somewhere else in Hamilton along the line, perhaps the further east station that was mentioned I think at one point.

I thought there was discussion of building a platform at the Centre (Mall), but that could have just been rumour.
I can't see them building a station at all between Hamilton and Niagara. GO pretty much only builds platforms with a ticket booth or Automated Ticket Vendor.

[omro]

I can't see them building a station at all between Hamilton and Niagara. GO pretty much only builds platforms with a ticket booth or Automated Ticket Vendor.

I thought it was further east in Stoney Creek?

[FairHamilton]

I thought it was further east in Stoney Creek?

The Stoney Creek location is just for buses in the parking lot of a defunct grocery store.

The one with the cars in this link;
http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=barton+and+nash+road+hamilton&sll=49.891235,-97.15369&sspn=56.23119,112.5&ie=UTF8&ll=43.239662,-79.770827&spn=0.000961,0.001717&t=h&z=19&iwloc=addr

[SteelTown]

That's a temporary spot.

The city is planning a transit terminal at Fifty and QEW, which is more into Stoney Creek and right next to Grimsby.

[omro]

Ah, I was convinced I'd read an article about a rail station being built somewhere further east near where they planned to build some stores, but not centre mall. I must have dreamed it :-)

[SteelTown]

It's gonna be built to new retail development.

[omro]

It's gonna be built to new retail development.

Is that in addition to or instead of the station at James North?

[SteelTown]

Addition. GO Transit plans on extending GO Trains to Stoney Creek and eventually to the Niagara region.

[JoeyColeman]

The MTO owes land for their current driver testing centre. There is city land in the area, and large warehouses.

If they want to locate a station along the CN line near the current "Stoney Creek" stop, they can make it happen. Not only that, it will be right beside the expressway - a prime spot for a commuter train. (Provided people are willing to kill the extra time on the train instead of just driving to Burlington GO and saving time on the commute home.)

[sofasurfer]

Addition. GO Transit plans on extending GO Trains to Stoney Creek and eventually to the Niagara region.

Any idea what kind of timescale we're talking about here?

[DC83]

^^ Within the next 25 years.
It's all in conjunction with MoveOntario 2020.

[MsMe]

September 24, 2008
By Rob Faulkner
The Hamilton Spectator
(Sep 24, 2008)
GO trains every five minutes during rush hour. Train rides from Hamilton to Union Station in Toronto that take 44, not 66 minutes like today. Two rapid transit lines by 2023, and a third in the years just after that.

It's the kind of work that Burlington-mayor-turned-transportation-architect Rob MacIsaac calls "transformational."

And it's a glimpse of the local future envisioned in The Big Move, a $50-billion, 25-year draft plan unveiled yesterday by provincial Crown agency Metrolinx aiming to ease gridlock and pollution in the Toronto-Hamilton region.

It contained dozens of blockbuster projects across the region.

Metrolinx board chair MacIsaac called the plan -- a mix of cycling, transit, integrated fares, mobility hubs and more -- the most significant transportation investment in a generation.

But it leaves a few unanswered questions: such as will Hamilton get the light rail it has been hoping for or will it make do with bus rapid transit?

The 84-page plan commits to building three rapid transit lines in Hamilton within 25 years, and two of these by 2023. One line will run east-west from McMaster University to Centennial Parkway -- what Hamilton has been calling its B line.

A north-south line is planned to run along James Street up the Mountain.

The east-west line is one of the top 15 priorities among the 40 projects Metrolinx wants completed in the next 15 years.

A 2009 benefits analysis study will determine if that line will run with bus or rail, said John Howe, Metrolinx general manager for investment strategy and projects.

"We are definitely very excited to see them include the (east-west) B line as one of the top 15 priorities," said Jill Stephen, city manager of strategic planning.

"We could have it running in the next eight years. We are going to press forward with our studies, our consultation and make sure that Metrolinx knows we are ready."

Howe said construction may start in 2010 and take four or five years.

Capital costs will be covered, it appears, but operating costs will likely be paid by municipalities.

Metrolinx plans more thorough financial details in the years ahead.

MacIsaac said that each project in the draft plan's long list will be evaluated for ridership and environmental, social and economic benefits. A final plan is expected in November.

He describes some work, like GO train electrification, as "transformational." Within 15 years, Lakeshore GO trains will run every 15 minutes at off-peak and every five minutes at peak times, he said.

"They won't have to worry about a schedule, they can just show up at a station and have confidence that a train will be along relatively shortly," MacIsaac said.

Howe said electrification will cost $4 billion and may be complete by 2016, if it starts in 2011.

Metrolinx said two Hamilton stations will be used for the increased number of GO trains, the Hunter Street GO station and LIUNA Station.

GO spokesperson Jessica Kosmack said details are not yet hammered out.

"This regional transportation plan is the first step in a long journey for all of the transportation groups. The next step is establishing what the priorities are and looking at the logistics and the funding," she said.

The Draft Regional Transportation Plan and Draft Investment Strategy will go to the Metrolinx board for discussion and approval Friday.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger urges Hamilton residents to participate in the public consultations Metrolinx is planning for October. He said that, as Hamilton's voice on the agency's board, he will strive to make the plan a reality.

"It's a good news day for Hamilton," Eisenberger said. "We believe in Hamilton that light rail transit is the right way to go. We're pushing for that. Light rail is the next generation of transit systems. We've already made our case and I'll continue to do that."

Last year's $17.5-billion MoveOntario 2020 announcement -- which Metrolinx is implementing -- said $300 million was available for Hamilton rapid transit. More exact timing for capital projects will come in October's five-year rolling budget, MacIsaac said.

Metrolinx said it will use the $11.5 billion in committed provincial money to fund the plan from 2009 to 2015, to accomplish quick wins and its 15 top priorities. It hopes for $6 billion from the federal government, to fund the plan to 2018.

Metrolinx plans to report back to the Ontario government in 2013 on how to fund the rest of the plan, post-2015. Possible sources include tolls.

But MacIsaac said the strategic thinking was to build a system that Ontario likes first, then find ways to generate new money.

Hamilton estimates an east-west line and a north-south line of light rail will cost $1.1 billion, and $160 an hour per vehicle to run. Bus rapid transit would cost $480 million.

"It's a major step along the way because Metrolinx has said that Hamilton will be in the first round of projects to get funded," said Nicholas Kevlahan, a McMaster University math professor and co-founder of Hamilton Light Rail, a citizens group formed to advocate for local light rail transit.

"On the choice between light rail and bus rapid transit, we are very well positioned because the city is already answering the questions that Metrolinx will be asking."

rfaulkner@thespec.com

905-526-2468

-- With files from Jackson Hayes and Emma Reilly


http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/440254

[SteelTown]

GO Train could take awhile, 20 years. But GO Bus I can see happening within 5 years. You already see GO Bus expanding to East Hamilton/Stoney Creek.

[markbarbera]

It's Rush Hour bus service being eliminated, they'll still be running non-rush hour bus service Union to Hamilton (Hamilton to Union).

The elimination of the Rush Hour bus service will be because of the additional train service from the complete the platform work in December at GO Centre.

I view this a minus for Hamilton. One of the unique things for Hamilton, over other cities in our area, is the bus/train option at rush hour. And most afternoons it's quicker taking the bus, then taking the train Union to GO Centre.

I checked with GO Transit about this. Here is what is happening come January:


An additional GO Train is being added to the morning run from the GO Centre
Lakeshore West GO Trains servicing Aldershot Station will be expanded to regular all-day service
Some of the buses currently service Hamilton GO Centre will be reallocated to connect Hamilton GO Centre to the Lakeshore West trains leaving Aldershot Station
Rush hour GO Bus service will not be eliminated, but its frequency will be reduced due to the reallocation of buses

The CSR I was talking to was quite friendly and forward about the information. She said the changes are being made to increase the reliability of service times during rush hour, which are adversely affected by traffic congestion during peak travel periods. From personal experience, I'd have to agree with that statement.

[FairHamilton]

I was thinking 'eliminating' rush hour service was going to mean buses getting rid of the every 15 minute bus during rush hour and going every 30 minutes like they are during non-rush hour times.

Sounds like that is what's going to happen.

It's unfortunate, they are only adding an additional train in the morning. They really need another one in the evening to fill in the 5:34pm to 6:35pm gap, i.e. a 6:04pm.

[markbarbera]

The January schedule is not out yet, but from what I gathered the rush hour frequency would be every 20 minutes.

This really is not all doom and gloom. The bus is not being removed from Hamilton, it is being reassigned. It'll be connecting Hamilton GO to Aldershot station. This will give a welcome alternative to the ride home in the afternoon.That 61 minute delay between trains is annoying. With PM rush extended to Aldershot and bus connection to Hamilton, the afternoon trip should be much better now.

[markbarbera]

The new bicycle shelter is in at the Hamilton GO Centre. Basically a modified bus shelter with bike racks inside. Somehow I was imagining something a little more secure.

[Jon Dalton]

They're building a bike shelter at the Appleby GO station. Security is not an issue there (well except for the time someone smashed the hell out of my rear rim) but a shelter is a huge benefit for those who ride in the winter. No more scraping ice off the brakes or finding out your cables are frozen a moment too late.

The Hamilton GO station as far as I know is the best bike storage in the system. Covered and monitored 24 hours a day.

I'm still looking forward to that 7:30 train.

[thistleclub]

Spec.com:

GO adding Hamilton train in 2009 (http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/479930)
December 10, 2008
John Burman

Hamilton is getting an extra morning GO Train early in 2009.

GO Transit announced recent track improvements will allow the Toronto-bound train which leaves Oakville at 7:58 a.m. to start its run from Burlington Aldershot at 7:32 a.m. on Jan. 5.

This 12-car train will originate in Hamilton later in early 2009 when the Hamilton train layover site is finished.

The train will run as an express from Oakville to Union Station.

GO made the announcement along with other service changes including two early, ‘homebound’ trains on the Lakeshore lines, one westbound and one eastbound.

Starting Jan. 5, a new weekday westbound train will leave Union station at 3:15 p.m., operating express to Clarkson and making all stops to Burlington. A similar eastbound train will leave Union at 5:10 p.m.

These new trips are intended to relieve crowding, meeting growing ridership needs, Go Transit said in a statement.

[FairHamilton]

Spec.com:

GO adding Hamilton train in 2009 (http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/479930)
December 10, 2008
John Burman
Starting Jan. 5, a new weekday westbound train will leave Union station at 3:15 p.m., operating express to Clarkson and making all stops to Burlington. A similar eastbound train will leave Union at 5:10 p.m.

These new trips are intended to relieve crowding, meeting growing ridership needs, Go Transit said in a statement.

I'm guessing, "A similar eastbound train will leave Union at 5:10 p.m." is a mis-print as it that was the case it would be going towards Oshawa. I'm guessing the eastbound train will be heading to Union.

It's too bad they are only putting one on the much sought after 3:15pm departure. I know so many people looking to leave work mid-afternoon.....

Really, they should be plugging the rush hour gap that exists from 5:34pm to 6:35pm, with a say a 6:04pm train.

[FairHamilton]

I'm guessing the eastbound train will be heading to Union.

Or, it could be westbound out of Union. Definitely not eastbound out of Union towards servicing Hamilton.

[Jon Dalton]

GO Transit announced recent track improvements will allow the Toronto-bound train which leaves Oakville at 7:58 a.m. to start its run from Burlington Aldershot at 7:32 a.m. on Jan. 5.

This 12-car train will originate in Hamilton later in early 2009 when the Hamilton train layover site is finished.

This should amount to a 7:17 train out of Hamilton in 2009. It's a little earlier than I was hoping for but nonetheless an improvement. 14 more minutes of sleep - every bit counts.

[markbarbera]

I'm guessing, "A similar eastbound train will leave Union at 5:10 p.m." is a mis-print as it that was the case it would be going towards Oshawa. I'm guessing the eastbound train will be heading to Union.

It's too bad they are only putting one on the much sought after 3:15pm departure. I know so many people looking to leave work mid-afternoon.....

Really, they should be plugging the rush hour gap that exists from 5:34pm to 6:35pm, with a say a 6:04pm train.

Not a misprint. The new 5:10 train is Lakeshore East run, running eastbound from Union.

The Lakeshore West run into Hamilton would definitely be well seved with an additional westbound train departing Union around 6PM.

[SteelTown]

More trains in GO plan

December 18, 2008
Rachel De Lazzer
The Hamilton Spectator
http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/483661

Long given the cold shoulder for commuter rail service, Hamilton residents will have Toronto-bound GO trains to hop on every 15 minutes in rush hour and every 30 minutes the rest of the day as early as 2013.

GO Transit has released its strategic plan, GO 2020, and gave Hamilton a favourable place by including it in a core area slated to get major service upgrades over the next decade. Hamilton and other communities within the core area are poised to get two-way, all-day service by 2020.

Ward 2 Councillor Bob Bratina, who sits on the GO Transit board of directors, says multiple variables, such as a teetering economy that could see fewer commuters heading to work, make specific timelines difficult to nail down.

"It may be a little soon, it's hard to say, but I would say that's a good working date," he said of the 2013 timeline.

Bratina said the extra trains will be added in stages.

The new trains will run from LIUNA Station on James Street North when the $3-million platform facility there is complete in 2010.

But GO commuters from Hamilton won't have to wait until 2010 for better service.

GO currently runs three trains between Hamilton and Toronto at rush hours only from the Hunter Street East GO station.

Bratina said that service will pick up in January when an $8-million layover facility is complete, allowing the three trains plus one additional one departing at 7:15 a.m. to leave on time more consistently by giving them a place to fuel and dock overnight.

Currently, the trains come from Willowdale and often get held up at a railway junction near the York Street high-level bridge over the Desjardins Canal, Bratina said. He said the layover station will likely be finished in the first half of January.

rdelazzer@thespec.com

[SteelTown]

It sounds like the feds might put infrastructure money towards speeding up the construction of electrifying the Lakeshore line.

[Dundasguy]

What's going to happen to the Hunter St. Station?

[markbarbera]

Rush hour trains will continue to run from Hunter Street GO Centre. Off-peak will run from James North.

[coalminecanary]

and go buses and greyhound/coach canada

[FairHamilton]

The physical copy of The Spec reports a new 7:15am train. Disappointing since we are already serviced by a 7:04am train.

[matt602]

It's still something, I guess. I'm surprised this layover facility allows only one additional train. I figured it would allow a couple more in the morning, and a few departing for Toronto in the evening. Why GO figures people only want to go to Toronto in the evening is beyond me.

[Berklon]

The physical copy of The Spec reports a new 7:15am train. Disappointing since we are already serviced by a 7:04am train.

It does seem like a waste to add a train only 11 minutes later. It'll either be basically empty or will carry a small percentage of people normally on the 7:04. I don't think this will convert people who normally take the bus to Toronto. Overall it won't really add any extra commuters to the train service.

If it left around 7:30, 7:45 or 8:00, then it would be handy for those who start work between 9:00 and 10:00.

[FairHamilton]

It's essentially a train to service existing Aldershot, Burlington service only domiciled in Hamilton vs. bringing it west in the morning from Mimico.

Only they've tried to maximize the spin by saying it's a plus for Hamilton.......

I've also read one in the evening is really in the afternoon, 3:15pm (or something close) leaving Union. Still leaving a big rush hour gap in service between the 5:34pm to 6:35pm. Any one working until 5:30, or delayed leaving their 5pm finish by 10, or 15 minutes the 5:34pm will most likely be a no go and 6:34pm is a good long wait.

[markbarbera]

I suspect the 7:04 train will end up with an earlier departure time once the 7:14 starts running. If its departure is moved to 6:54, then there will be an AM train leaving Hamilton GO Centre on a 20 minute schedule (6:14, 6:34, 6:54, 7:14).

[SteelTown]

It sounds like the feds might put infrastructure money towards speeding up the construction of electrifying the Lakeshore line.

"While he declined to talk about specific projects, he said he met yesterday with officials from Metrolinx and the Toronto City Summit Alliance, suggesting further expansion of the TTC or GO Transit is in the works."

http://www.thestar.com/Article/556696

[Berklon]

Anyone know when the new 7:15AM train out of Hunter will start running?

[FairHamilton]

Anyone know when the new 7:15AM train out of Hunter will start running?

Well, the platform extension was open today, so it should be soon.

[Jon Dalton]

Well, the platform extension was open today, so it should be soon.

Wow, I'm totally out of touch with the John St. side of things. Good news.

[markbarbera]

While the barricade fencing has been removed, construction at Hamilton GO is not complete and platform accomodation for 12-carriage trains remains restricted. Must be very close to completion. I'd guess about six weeks behind schedule.

[FairHamilton]

While the barricade fencing has been removed, construction at Hamilton GO is not complete and platform accomodation for 12-carriage trains remains restricted. Must be very close to completion. I'd guess about six weeks behind schedule.

The platform and all 12 cars have been accessible (i.e. they are now open) in the morning since last week.

[Berklon]

The platform and all 12 cars have been accessible (i.e. they are now open) in the morning since last week.

I can confirm this as well.

Up until last week the last 3 or 4 cars would have their doors shut and a sort-of barrier was in place on the platform. Now the platform is fully accessable along with all the cars.

There was a new train added at Aldershot 2 weeks ago - the 7:32 which hits all stops till Oakville and then express to Union. I'm assuming this will be 7:15 out of Hamilton. I guess the fact that it's not starting the run from Hamilton yet means the yard/station (or whatever it's called) isn't ready to house the train overnight.

[markbarbera]

You certain they are 12-carriage trains in the morning? My understanding is that the 5:02 PM train was the only 12-carriage train serving Hamlton, and that all three AM train currently remain in the 10-carriage configuration. The easiest way to check (besides counting the carriages) is to check out the engine. If it isn't one of the sleek, new MPI locomotives, then the train is definitely only a ten carriage configuration. The older locomotives by EMD simply cannot pull a dozen carriages.

Today's 5:02 was its usual 12-carriage configuration and its easternmost carriages remained closed during arrival at the GO Centre.

[SteelTown]

Quote from the 2009 Budget....

"Funding will also be used to modernize VIA Rail Canada’s fleet of locomotives and passenger cars, and to upgrade key stations in Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Hamilton, Belleville and Windsor."

Finally getting a VIA Station at James St North.

[FairHamilton]

You certain they are 12-carriage trains in the morning? My understanding is that the 5:02 PM train was the only 12-carriage train serving Hamlton, and that all three AM train currently remain in the 10-carriage configuration. The easiest way to check (besides counting the carriages) is to check out the engine. If it isn't one of the sleek, new MPI locomotives, then the train is definitely only a ten carriage configuration. The older locomotives by EMD simply cannot pull a dozen carriages.

Today's 5:02 was its usual 12-carriage configuration and its easternmost carriages remained closed during arrival at the GO Centre.

Yes, the 7:04am is 12 cars.

I don't know why they keep them closed on the evening train. A few weeks ago they weren't opening any cars behind the accessibility car (that's 7 cars closed), and I questioned that at that time.

[matt602]

Quote from the 2009 Budget....

"Funding will also be used to modernize VIA Rail Canada’s fleet of locomotives and passenger cars, and to upgrade key stations in Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Hamilton, Belleville and Windsor."

Finally getting a VIA Station at James St North.

They might have been counting Aldershot as Hamilton, but that also doesn't make sense, as it is a fairly new station anyway. I suppose we'll have to wait.

[bornagainbiking]

Had the pleasure of taking the morning commute from Barton/Nash to Union via Burlington Station.
Wow, 8 mins with a coffee stop to my FREE parking. (lots of it)..
15 mins to Burlington and transfer (lots of seats left).
So 1 hr and 10 mins with my MP3 player. Sweet, Not to say I like going to downtown Toronto, but as an occasional or rare business traveler, this is better than before. Take the HSR to downtown Hamilton or drive into T.O.
The return trips and connections could be restrictive.
In the East end so easy in and out of Barton/Nash, I was home in 5 mins with RedHill.
I wonder if this takes some of the load of our downtown or if people who migrate here will consider this as a factor to buy in the East End or Stoney Creek.:banana:
Only about 15 people on the 0630 bus and 10 on the 1545 bus. So lots of room and the lot has plenty of space.
A Major issue is no washrooms available.

[omro]

Quote from the 2009 Budget....

"Funding will also be used to modernize VIA Rail Canada’s fleet of locomotives and passenger cars, and to upgrade key stations in Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Hamilton, Belleville and Windsor."

Finally getting a VIA Station at James St North.

That's the second thing that was in the MoveOntario plans that's been mentioned without mentioning MoveOntario. I wonder if that money will go to them as part of the federal funding they are currently lacking?

[SteelTown]

Hamilton is on the priority list for a VIA Station, apparently with the $400 million (which must be spent within 2 years) Hamilton is suppose to get a brand new Station. Bob Bratina on the radio said it'll be a GO/VIA Station.

GO Transit is suppose to bulid the platforms this year so maybe they'll work together at the same time.

Hope you guys don't mind that I changed the title to GO/VIA Transit.

[omro]

Hamilton is on the priority list for a VIA Station, apparently with the $400 million (which must be spent within 2 years) Hamilton is suppose to get a brand new Station. Bob Bratina on the radio said it'll be a GO/VIA Station.

GO Transit is suppose to bulid the platforms this year so maybe they'll work together at the same time.

Hope you guys don't mind that I changed the title to GO/VIA Transit.

Does anyone know if this money will be funnelled through MoveOntario's plan to provide the above or will be separate to. If so, does that mean that MoveOntario now a) has look for less money overall or b) has more money to spend on other projects?

Hopefully b), then perhaps they could speed up other Hamilton related transit plans.

[SteelTown]

This money has nothing to do with MoveOntario 2020 plan, even though a new GO/VIA platform is part of the plan, a new Station isn't. There's no mention of MoveOntairo 2020 in the 2009 Budget either.

[omro]

This money has nothing to do with MoveOntario 2020 plan, even though a new GO/VIA platform is part of the plan, a new Station isn't. There's no mention of MoveOntairo 2020 in the 2009 Budget either.

That's a bugger.

BTW, wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy back the old station?

[Jon Dalton]

Probably not, but I don't see why space couldn't be leased in the old station for a modern GO and VIA station. The building is huge. Furthermore land behind the station is being wasted as it is - LIUNA doesn't need rail frontage for anything. It would just make too much sense, that's why it won't be done.

[SteelTown]

It might be possible. Feds perfer to rent space than to own a building.

LIUNA did hint way back that it would be willing to discuss with GO Transit and VIA.

[omro]

Probably not, but I don't see why space couldn't be leased in the old station for a modern GO and VIA station. The building is huge. Furthermore land behind the station is being wasted as it is - LIUNA doesn't need rail frontage for anything. It would just make too much sense, that's why it won't be done.

Ryan, if you're reading, perhaps a potential article for RTH? New station vs reusing the old station?

[flar]

It seems that today's VIA stations (like Aldershot) are purely utilitarian, so I doubt they are looking to reuse an old station (the TH&B restoration and use as an actual train station notwithstanding). I think they are looking to build platforms with small shelters and ticket machines.

The old method of building grand train stations might have one major thing to offer; it depends on whether people more inclined to use a train station if the train station is an impressive looking building.

[flar]

An applicable quote from another thread:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=4054237



"[Through Penn Station] one entered the city like a god. Now one scuttles in like a rat."
- Vincent Scully

"There was no such act of vandalism in the history of New York City as the destruction of the original Pennsylvania Station."
-Daniel Patrick Moynihan

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=ad56e909b43dcdfe_landing

http://www.caryconover.com/uploaded_images/pennwestside-750316.jpg

http://www.caryconover.com/uploaded_images/pennlightpics-726993.jpg

Today's Penn Station's main "hall":
http://nymag.com/images/2/daily/intel/08/03/27_pennstation_lg.jpg

[coalminecanary]

Thanks for travelling VIA and welcome to hamiton. If you climb the hill to your right and hop over the chain link fence, you can hail a cab from the street
http://images.townnews.com/rapidcityjournal.com/content/articles/2007/08/19/news/top/doc46c794b71fc01416489153_thumb.jpg

[DHLawrence]

If London is any indication, the era of Via stations with no architectural merit (the CN-branded office tower notwithstanding) has come and gone. If they don't use a section of LIUNA (the elevated concourse perhaps?), they'll put something reasonably attractive in place.

As for Penn Station, they've been in the process of rectifying that glaring error of the 60s for a few years now. Unfortunately, it's embroiled in red tape that's impressive even by Ontario standards. It's a pity the layout of the railway lines won't let Amtrak use Grand Central again; now that place is where you enter like a god!

[omro]

Well... they were going to tear this place down until somebody had the bright idea to actually use it as a railway station again.

Thank god that they did! :)

http://www.dennis-jackson.me.uk/pictures/pancras/pancras.jpg
From Dennis Jackson's website on St Pancras (http://www.dennis-jackson.me.uk/pictures/pancras/index.html)

Now 'n' Then
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_02/StPancras2_468x360.jpg
From a Daily Mail Article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-481696/The-real-Eurostar-How-poet-returned-St-Pancras-nation.html)

http://www.stpancras.com/UploadDocs/ImageGallery/images/arcade_lg.jpg
http://www.stpancras.com/UploadDocs/ImageGallery/images/ballowshed_night_lg.jpg
From the St Pancras Site (http://www.stpancras.com/)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/StPancrasMidlandHotel.jpg
From Wikimedia

[highwater]

They had to fight tooth and nail in the 70's to save Union Station in Toronto. Thank God they did. (Of course GO travellers are still scuttling in like rats in the lower concourse.)

[Jon Dalton]

Montreal's old train station has been preserved and adapted to other uses while the modern station operates in its basement (most trains enter Montreal underground).

Here's where the trains used to go:
http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/jondalton/Quebec/JonsSlides2AA015.jpg

[fastcarsfreedom]

What happened in Montreal was that the historic Windsor Station (CP) was previously used for regional commuter rail (now AMT) while Central Station (CN) was used by both regional commuter rail and VIA/Amtrak. When the Bell Centre was built, it severed Windsor Station from the rail lines--and the commuter rail was moved to a station shared with the Metro (Lucien L'Allier) while everything else has remained at Central Station--Central isn't below ground per se - is a mid-century modernist station that went up with the current Queen Elizabeth Hotel in the 1950s.

The destruction of Penn Station is widely considered to be among the most grievous architectually losses in U.S. history. Unlike Grand Central which was positioned to allow high rise-construction near and around it (Pan Am Building notably) -- Penn's design didn't allow for use of the "air rights" above it--dooming it in the era of exploding Manhattan real estate prices.

[thistleclub]

Quote from the 2009 Budget....

"Funding will also be used to modernize VIA Rail Canada’s fleet of locomotives and passenger cars, and to upgrade key stations in Toronto, Montréal, Vancouver, Hamilton, Belleville and Windsor."

Finally getting a VIA Station at James St North.

Hopefully they don't chintz out. Considering what they're upgrading from, a cement platform under the bridge would qualify.