General Updates and News

[MonctonRad]

Hey Keith, they're going to build a refrigerated skating oval very much like your own behind the city hall in Dieppe this year. Perhaps you could send some of your love our way too. :)

[terrynorthend]

Drove past it this beautiful sunny afternoon, virtually deserted.

If only you had driven by it in the morning. It was mobbed with hundreds of skaters.

Source: I was one of them.

[Keith P.]

If only you had driven by it in the morning. It was mobbed with hundreds of skaters.

Source: I was one of them.

Anecdotal, hence irrelevant.

It is important to keep those who would be inclined to rape the taxpayer for other white elephant public spending projects that their actions are being watched.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Drove past it this beautiful sunny afternoon, virtually deserted.

Also anecdotal, and therefore irrelevant by your reasoning. However, I posted data which is quite relevant (again, by your own reasoning).

Keith, you're slipping...

[q12]

Oval last night 7:20pm

http://i64.tinypic.com/21m6qrl.png

:gkwillie::wiseman:

[Keith P.]

Also anecdotal, and therefore irrelevant by your reasoning.

You clearly have lost your sense of humor, assuming you ever had one. :uhh:

[counterfactual]

Oval last night 7:20pm

http://i64.tinypic.com/21m6qrl.png

:gkwillie::wiseman:

The little emojis accompanying this post made me laugh.

[Keith P.]

Oval last night 7:20pm

http://i64.tinypic.com/21m6qrl.png



Nice Photoshop job. :tup:

[Keith P.]

Hey Keith, they're going to build a refrigerated skating oval very much like your own behind the city hall in Dieppe this year. Perhaps you could send some of your love our way too. :)

Geez, given that NB is in far worse financial shape than NS, they must be crazy.

Maybe they can make an offer to take ours off our hands.

[OldDartmouthMark]

You clearly have lost your sense of humor, assuming you ever had one. :uhh:

Last time I checked, I still had it. I'll check again later... ;)

I didn't realize you were being humorous as I couldn't hear your tone of voice when you typed it - emoticons are your friend! :D

That said, I'm glad that you finally concede that the oval has been a success! :cheers:

[MonctonRad]

Geez, given that NB is in far worse financial shape than NS, they must be crazy.

Maybe they can make an offer to take ours off our hands.

Dieppe has delusions of grandeur. They built a world class aquatic facility about 10 years ago resulting in significant debt and also have a velodrome. A new skating oval is small potatoes for them. :haha:

[Keith P.]

Halifax's Emera Oval sees more visits this year, so far

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/skating-up-at-oval-1.3454478

From the article:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.3454500.1455901872!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/skating-statistics.jpg


BTW, the infographic is a prime example of how CBC slants their reporting. Looking only at that you might conclude it is a huge success. Of course you have to read the fine print and learn that it was closed many more days last year, so it really is about staying the same. On a daily average basis, the $5 million that was spent on the pavilion has done nothing to move the needle at all. In fact all it likely did was stave off a decline in usage for this year.

[Keith P.]

Dieppe has delusions of grandeur. They built a world class aquatic facility about 10 years ago resulting in significant debt and also have a velodrome. A new skating oval is small potatoes for them. :haha:


Ah, that explains it. A city would indeed need to suffer from a high degree of lunacy to construct such a facility.

[counterfactual]

Halifax's Emera Oval sees more visits this year, so far

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/skating-up-at-oval-1.3454478

From the article:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.3454500.1455901872!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_620/skating-statistics.jpg


It's like the Central Library, which despite Keith's strong opposition on SSP, is wildly popular and growing in that popularity.

It's almost as if Keith's opinion on these things don't necessarily reflect the majority... :runaway:

[Keith P.]

It's like the Central Library, which despite Keith's strong opposition on SSP, is wildly popular and growing in that popularity.

It's almost as if Keith's opinion on these things don't necessarily reflect the majority... :runaway:

The majority of people are stupid. You know that.

Of course the unthinking majority will like things bestowed upon them at huge cost. They are too dumb to male the connection that they are paying for the inflated, wasteful cost of these things.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Of course you have to read the fine print and learn that it was closed many more days last year, so it really is about staying the same. On a daily average basis, the $5 million that was spent on the pavilion has done nothing to move the needle at all. In fact all it likely did was stave off a decline in usage for this year.

Geez, Keith, you're talking about a sense of humour then you get all serious on us... :haha:

Ok, then.

Where are your stats? How many more days was it closed last year than this year? What is the daily average that you are talking about how does it compare with last year? What is acceptable level of usage for a public project such as this? You say that the CBC's data is slanted but then you produce none yourself. Numbers, Keith, I want to see numbers. :grumpycat:

[OldDartmouthMark]

The majority of people are stupid. You know that.

Of course the unthinking majority will like things bestowed upon them at huge cost. They are too dumb to male the connection that they are paying for the inflated, wasteful cost of these things.

Good God. :rolleyes:

[Keith P.]

Where are your stats? How many more days was it closed last year than this year? What is the daily average that you are talking about how does it compare with last year? What is acceptable level of usage for a public project such as this? You say that the CBC's data is slanted but then you produce none yourself. Numbers, Keith, I want to see numbers.


Then read the story you referenced. You can't just get all starry-eyed because of a shiny infographic.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Then read the story you referenced. You can't just get all starry-eyed because of a shiny infographic.

There is not enough information in the article to support your assertions.

Also, you are taking this way too seriously. I posted an article that states some healthy attendance numbers. You say that it is an abysmal failure. The numbers say that you are incorrect.

That is all. :cheers:

[Keith P.]

There is not enough information in the article to support your assertions.

Also, you are taking this way too seriously. I posted an article that states some healthy attendance numbers. You say that it is an abysmal failure. The numbers say that you are incorrect.


The numbers say the oval was closed 20 days last year and 9 this year. You may not like the numbers but that does not mean they are wrong.

[Empire]

It would be nice to see an outdoor rink / oval built as part of the new fourplex in Dartmouth. The ice plant and Zamboni could be shared with the rinks.......

[Phalanx]

The numbers say the oval was closed 20 days last year and 9 this year. You may not like the numbers but that does not mean they are wrong.

Then lets do the math here. The difference between last year's numbers and this year's numbers is 20350. By your reasoning, the entire difference in the figures is due to the extra 11 days it's been open this year. So... 20350/11 = 1850 people per day. Not too bad.

You may not like the numbers, but it doesn't mean they are wrong. :D

[Keith P.]

Then lets do the math here. The difference between last year's numbers and this year's numbers is 20350. By your reasoning, the entire difference in the figures is due to the extra 11 days it's been open this year. So... 20350/11 = 1850 people per day. Not too bad.


Except that the weather overall this winter has been far more benign and hence one would think conducive to people so inclined to visit the thing. Yet they apparently have not. Add to that the fact that we spent $5 million to add a bunch of things that were supposed to add to the experience. It would appear that it had zero effect. The same people that went to the place before are still the same ones there now. A fine investment indeed.

The point of the CBC infographic, trying to delude people into believing the thing was a big success, seems to have worked on those who merely take things at face value.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Except that the weather overall this winter has been far more benign and hence one would think conducive to people so inclined to visit the thing. Yet they apparently have not. Add to that the fact that we spent $5 million to add a bunch of things that were supposed to add to the experience. It would appear that it had zero effect. The same people that went to the place before are still the same ones there now. A fine investment indeed.

You forget that these numbers are up to mid February, and last year the worst of our winter weather was from February through to the end of March, but whatever. I'm tiring of beating this poor dead horse...

The point of the CBC infographic, trying to delude people into believing the thing was a big success, seems to have worked on those who merely take things at face value.

Typical KP form, end post with an insult to get a reaction. You're becoming predictable.

[Keith P.]

Typical KP form, end post with an insult to get a reaction. You're becoming predictable.

No insult, just a commentary on the style of CBC journalism these days.

[OldDartmouthMark]

No insult, just a commentary on the style of CBC journalism these days.

I was commenting on the "seems to have worked...", but regardless.

I agree but will expand your comment to be journalism in general. In fact, I often type it as "journalism" these days.

I've been listening to CBC radio less these days as I have found that they are tending to focus their broadcasts on 3 or 4 topics that they rotate regularly. There are a lot of significant things happening in the world yet they continue to beat their pet topics to death... :2cents:

[Antigonish]

No insult, just a commentary on the style of CBC journalism these days.

Aging is a funny thing. 6 years ago I'd disagree with Keith's views more often than not. Now it's the opposite. Don't ever change.

[Keith P.]

Aging is a funny thing. 6 years ago I'd disagree with Keith's views more often than not. Now it's the opposite. Don't ever change.


"Sooner or later, they all come to me." :cheers:

[Keith P.]

I was commenting on the "seems to have worked...", but regardless.

I agree but will expand your comment to be journalism in general. In fact, I often type it as "journalism" these days.

I've been listening to CBC radio less these days as I have found that they are tending to focus their broadcasts on 3 or 4 topics that they rotate regularly. There are a lot of significant things happening in the world yet they continue to beat their pet topics to death... :2cents:


For years I was a loyal viewer of local CBC TV news at the dinner hour. I would never watch the Steve Murphy ATV/CTV production, finding it dumbed-down and sensationalist. CBC was the one place you could count on to have some sort of journalistic integrity, albeit with a left bias. But whatever.

That has all changed in the last few years. Now it is CBC that goes for the sensationalist story, beating the drum on certain issues when others rightly ignore it. We saw it last year when they created the Dal Dentistry story pretty much single-handed, and earlier with the Parsons and later the Kidd stories. This year they have been keeping up a steady drumbeat on the Syrian refugee story. Their agenda is not just on the left side of the spectrum, but has become that of the social justice crusaders. I now find myself swallowing hard and watching CTV more often than not. It is a real shame.

[Antigonish]

For years I was a loyal viewer of local CBC TV news at the dinner hour. I would never watch the Steve Murphy ATV/CTV production, finding it dumbed-down and sensationalist. CBC was the one place you could count on to have some sort of journalistic integrity, albeit with a left bias. But whatever.

That has all changed in the last few years. Now it is CBC that goes for the sensationalist story, beating the drum on certain issues when others rightly ignore it. We saw it last year when they created the Dal Dentistry story pretty much single-handed, and earlier with the Parsons and later the Kidd stories. This year they have been keeping up a steady drumbeat on the Syrian refugee story. Their agenda is not just on the left side of the spectrum, but has become that of the social justice crusaders. I now find myself swallowing hard and watching CTV more often than not. It is a real shame.

The popular term now is "regressive left". There is hardly anywhere for a moderate to turn.

[OldDartmouthMark]

For years I was a loyal viewer of local CBC TV news at the dinner hour. I would never watch the Steve Murphy ATV/CTV production, finding it dumbed-down and sensationalist. CBC was the one place you could count on to have some sort of journalistic integrity, albeit with a left bias. But whatever.

That has all changed in the last few years. Now it is CBC that goes for the sensationalist story, beating the drum on certain issues when others rightly ignore it. We saw it last year when they created the Dal Dentistry story pretty much single-handed, and earlier with the Parsons and later the Kidd stories. This year they have been keeping up a steady drumbeat on the Syrian refugee story. Their agenda is not just on the left side of the spectrum, but has become that of the social justice crusaders. I now find myself swallowing hard and watching CTV more often than not. It is a real shame.

I has become a sad story. I don't tend to watch the TV news as it doesn't coincide with my schedule, but with print media all but gone and radio news deteriorating, all that's left is the internet. God help us all...

[Jonovision]

The Midtown North website now has a bit more information for their upcoming session tomorrow night.

We now can see the extent of the site and it is pretty big. Almost the entire stretch along Almond with the exception of the two apartment buildings at the end and four frontages on Robie, from the corner to Mary's I believe.

https://56.media.tumblr.com/550c0b4d4b2071ad86da0348580a8b7e/tumblr_o32qc67pmz1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

https://40.media.tumblr.com/e724fcf355fadd02838e6d74fa2bcaa7/tumblr_o32qdngTnB1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

[Duff]

Taken this past weekend.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1643/25134450842_871c3d068f_b.jpg

[Keith P.]

The White Elephant a.k.a. The Oval has thrown in the towel for the season as of March 2nd. All the chillers and zambonis and armies of staff are unable to keep ice on the thing. What a debacle this has turned into.

[IanWatson]

The White Elephant a.k.a. The Oval has thrown in the towel for the season as of March 2nd. All the chillers and zambonis and armies of staff are unable to keep ice on the thing. What a debacle this has turned into.

That's okay. The poor skating weather means good bike lane weather.

[Keith P.]

That's okay. The poor skating weather means good bike lane weather.

I'm sure the dozen or so cycling zealots will be thrilled. :rolleyes:

[fenwick16]

The White Elephant a.k.a. The Oval has thrown in the towel for the season as of March 2nd. All the chillers and zambonis and armies of staff are unable to keep ice on the thing. What a debacle this has turned into.


I guess this means that it should have been built as an indoor skating oval :D

[OldDartmouthMark]

The White Elephant a.k.a. The Oval has thrown in the towel for the season as of March 2nd. All the chillers and zambonis and armies of staff are unable to keep ice on the thing. What a debacle this has turned into.

Are we still talking about this? :shrug:

FWIW, don't think debacle is the proper term, as the oval has been well used and will continue to be used into the future, and has not 'ended' as such. It has simply closed for the season as it will in every spring season for years to come.

debacle ‎(plural debacles)

An event or enterprise that ends suddenly and disastrously, often with humiliating consequences.  [quotations ▼]
(ecology) A breaking up of a natural dam, usually made of ice, by a river and the ensuing rush of water.  [quotations ▼]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/debacle

That was my last swipe at the deceased horse. Enough already.

[teddifax]

Are we still talking about this? :shrug:

FWIW, don't think debacle is the proper term, as the oval has been well used and will continue to be used into the future, and has not 'ended' as such. It has simply closed for the season as it will in every spring season for years to come.



https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/debacle

That was my last swipe at the deceased horse. Enough already.

I totally agree, accept that it is well used for the time it is able to be open and leave it at that!

[Keith P.]

FWIW, don't think debacle is the proper term, as the oval has been well used and will continue to be used into the future, and has not 'ended' as such. It has simply closed for the season as it will in every spring season for years to come.

debacle ‎(plural debacles)

An event or enterprise that ends suddenly and disastrously, often with humiliating consequences.  [quotations ▼]
(ecology) A breaking up of a natural dam, usually made of ice, by a river and the ensuing rush of water.  [quotations ▼]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/debacle

That was my last swipe at the deceased horse. Enough already.

That definition seems remarkably appropriate in this case.

[Keith P.]

I totally agree, accept that it is well used for the time it is able to be open and leave it at that!

The question is: why did we spend many millions in capital funding plus hire armies of staff for something that is useful 2 months of the year? Is anyone accountable? Is every request now fair game regardless of the short usage timespan of the result? This has major implications for a stadium, etc.

[alps]

The question is: why did we spend many millions in capital funding plus hire armies of staff for something that is useful 2 months of the year? Is anyone accountable? Is every request now fair game regardless of the short usage timespan of the result? This has major implications for a stadium, etc.

It's open in the summer, isn't it? My last visit home (June) I went roller skating there with some friends. I assumed it was open for roller skating all summer every year.

[Nouvellecosse]

The problem is that when you live in a place with distinct seasons, few things outside can be used to full benefit year round, so if you want anything nice outdoors you simply have to get over that fact and move on. If you can't somehow come to grips with that reality, then you're going to be stuck only having nice things that are indoors (such as the library), and having an having an outdoor urban realm that's decidedly sub-par.

[JET]

12 and 14 Queen Street in Dartmouth have been demolished.

[stevencourchene]

JET 12 and 14 Queen Street in Dartmouth have been demolished.




question: what for if any reason in particular?

[JET]

JET 12 and 14 Queen Street in Dartmouth have been demolished.




question: what for if any reason in particular?

It's right beside the large, and largely unused; parking lot. Maybe the folks who did the Darkside?/Brightside? on Portland have a plan; don't know, just hoping, it's not bad. I just noticed it the other day on my way home from the Celtic Corner; I keep trying to get into Battery Park, :cheers: but so far no luck.

[OldDartmouthMark]

It's right beside the large, and largely unused; parking lot. Maybe the folks who did the Darkside?/Brightside? on Portland have a plan; don't know, just hoping, it's not bad. I just noticed it the other day on my way home from the Celtic Corner; I keep trying to get into Battery Park, :cheers: but so far no luck.

Is Battery Park that busy, or will they just not let you in? :haha:

:cheers:

[JET]

Is Battery Park that busy, or will they just not let you in? :haha:

:cheers:

I worry that it might be both, hipster might be an entrance requirement.

[JET]

The old Sobeys lot on Gottingen now has the billboard sign supports removed, also some trees are down.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I worry that it might be both, hipster might be an entrance requirement.

Wha?? Hipsters in downtown Dartmouth? What's this world coming to!? :haha:

I've been meaning to drop by there to check it out, so was just wondering how busy it is these days.

==>not a hipster, BTW... :D

[JET]

Wha?? Hipsters in downtown Dartmouth? What's this world coming to!? :haha:

I've been meaning to drop by there to check it out, so was just wondering how busy it is these days.

==>not a hipster, BTW... :D

I've heard that earlier in the week might better result in success, we tried on Tuesday, but it is closed on Tuesdays. :(

[Keith P.]

Wha?? Hipsters in downtown Dartmouth? What's this world coming to!? :haha:

I've been meaning to drop by there to check it out, so was just wondering how busy it is these days.

==>not a hipster, BTW... :D


I doubt they would let you in. Wear a plaid shirt, don a fake beard, and put some Brylcreem in your hair and you might have a chance.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I doubt they would let you in. Wear a plaid shirt, don a fake beard, and put some Brylcreem in your hair and you might have a chance.

Sounds like I'll have to go shopping... :haha:

[Drybrain]

Here's a video of the Doyle Block demolition (https://twitter.com/signalhfx/status/711261508869734400), which started yesterday. The red-brick rowhouses were down within a few hours.

I remain pretty damn displeased.

http://i.imgur.com/DZjhVFQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/kbM876q.jpg

[someone123]

The red-brick rowhouses were down within a few hours.

There aren't many of these in the city. More than many people realize (since there are a bunch in the North End, on Jubilee Road, etc.), but 8 or 10 have been lost now during the past few years. First the fire on South Street (followed by deliberate demolition of the remaining building), now this.

[ILoveHalifax]

I had a lot of good times and a lot of drinks in that building back in the old Thackary's days, but it is time to move on with a great new building

[Keith P.]

I had a lot of good times and a lot of drinks in that building back in the old Thackary's days, but it is time to move on with a great new building

Likewise. In essence they were pretty much just facades, since the various interior renos to create Thackeray's and then the other operations that were in there over the years eliminated any vestige of their original townhouse status.

Thackeray's bar downstairs was the place to be in the '80s and early '90s. Mel the bartender took good care of you.

[MonctonRad]

:previous:

The Thackeray's Building has been torn down! WTF!!!!

Thackeray's was pretty much my favourite hangout when I was in university. We used to go there for brunch most every weekend. I'm pretty pissed off. It was a handsome building too. :hell:

What are they going to do with the land???

[OldDartmouthMark]

I had a lot of good times and a lot of drinks in that building back in the old Thackary's days, but it is time to move on with a great new building

A great new building? That's good news. Do you have a link to the new renderings, because the last proposal was quite ugly.

Typical Halifax crap development!

[Drybrain]

:previous:

The Thackeray's Building has been torn down! WTF!!!!

Thackeray's was pretty much my favourite hangout when I was in university. We used to go there for brunch most every weekend. I'm pretty pissed off. It was a handsome building too. :hell:

What are they going to do with the land???

They're also tearing down the Toms Havana/Rogues Roost building. This is going up in its place. (http://signalhfx.ca/new-development-will-re-shape-historic-corner-with-modern-lines/) I think the new development is fine, but it's not worth losing this block.

[MonctonRad]

They're also tearing down the Toms Havana/Rogues Roost building. This is going up in its place. (http://signalhfx.ca/new-development-will-re-shape-historic-corner-with-modern-lines/) I think the new development is fine, but it's not worth losing this block.

I agree. When Thackeray's was in business, it added a lot to the culture (and streetscape) of SGR. This replacement building is pretty generic and actually will detract from the character of the street.

I remain pissed off......... :(

[counterfactual]

Why did Thackery's go out of business?

I similarly miss Jane's On the Commons. My favorite brunch place up until a year or so ago. Sucks.

[ILoveHalifax]

Why did Thackery's go out of business?

I similarly miss Jane's On the Commons. My favorite brunch place up until a year or so ago. Sucks.

Thackery's closed after I moved to Florida, as did House of Rodney. I think they suffered from me not drinking/shopping there - haha

[IanWatson]

Why did Thackery's go out of business?

I similarly miss Jane's On the Commons. My favorite brunch place up until a year or so ago. Sucks.

Have you been to Robie Street Station (replaces Jane's) yet? It's pretty damn delicious.

[Keith P.]

Why did Thackery's go out of business?

Quite a while ago. Mid-'90s I think? There has been a procession of other places in there since.

I similarly miss Jane's On the Commons. My favorite brunch place up until a year or so ago. Sucks.

Well, EDNA on Gottingen is run by many of the same people, providing overpriced hipster food to the terminally trendy.

[counterfactual]

Thackery's closed after I moved to Florida, as did House of Rodney. I think they suffered from me not drinking/shopping there - haha

:haha::haha:

[counterfactual]

Quite a while ago. Mid-'90s I think? There has been a procession of other places in there since.



Well, EDNA on Gottingen is run by many of the same people, providing overpriced hipster food to the terminally trendy.

Edna's is good food, but yeah, a little too hipster and higher end for a typical breakfast or brunch for me.

Jane's was nice as it was great food, but pretty relaxed/chill in there. Not pretentious at all.

[counterfactual]

Have you been to Robie Street Station (replaces Jane's) yet? It's pretty damn delicious.

I haven't! But now I will. Is it in the same location?

[IanWatson]

I haven't! But now I will. Is it in the same location?

Yeah, it's in the old Jane's spot.

[Jonovision]

Still don't know the full details behind this project and the rumored tower to go behind this but the work is looking really nice on the old rectory building.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/c74fafde8e261255c3974e3cf092cc78/tumblr_o4lt01QV9Y1sk8kjeo2_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/6db206d65b74edc75fae7f9e73aeb17d/tumblr_o4lt01QV9Y1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

[RoshanMcG]

What are the plans, if any, for the old Memorial Library on Spring Garden?

[Drybrain]

What are the plans, if any, for the old Memorial Library on Spring Garden?

Still planned to be Volta Labs' new home (http://globalnews.ca/news/2441660/old-halifax-memorial-library-could-be-home-to-volta-labs/)after a renovation. Depends on provincial action though, so...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Still don't know the full details behind this project and the rumored tower to go behind this but the work is looking really nice on the old rectory building.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/c74fafde8e261255c3974e3cf092cc78/tumblr_o4lt01QV9Y1sk8kjeo2_1280.jpg

http://41.media.tumblr.com/6db206d65b74edc75fae7f9e73aeb17d/tumblr_o4lt01QV9Y1sk8kjeo1_1280.jpg

A few related articles and such:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/st-patrick-s-church-rectory-sale-delayed-by-address-mixup-1.2980619

https://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/150310ca141.pdf

http://globalnews.ca/news/2568068/city-and-parish-both-say-saint-patricks-church-in-halifax-is-safe/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/archbishop-patrick-church-brunswick-1.3487848

http://www.metronews.ca/news/halifax/2016/03/17/society-says-st-patricks-church-safe-archdiocese-concern.html

Couldn't find any info on a proposed tower.

[someone123]

Couldn't find any info on a proposed tower.

I remember reading about it as a rumour in the publication that shall not be named. I think they said the plan was for a 14 storey tower. Presumably it would go in behind the rectory; the lot is pretty deep.

[OldDartmouthMark]

I remember reading about it as a rumour in the publication that shall not be named. I think they said the plan was for a 14 storey tower. Presumably it would go in behind the rectory; the lot is pretty deep.

Thanks! Shouldn't there be a development agreement out there for this?

I chuckle every time I read "the publication that shall not be named". Kinda reminds me of "the artist formerly known as Prince"... :haha:

Truth be known they have done themselves a bit of a disservice in clamping down on references on online forums, as the quoted articles were like free advertisement for them, IMHO. I know when I was regularly reading tidbits of info from their subscribers on this forum my curiosity was piqued to the point of considering a subscription for myself. After their tantrum, I have since decided that this money will enrich my life more when spent elsewhere...

[counterfactual]

Still planned to be Volta Labs' new home (http://globalnews.ca/news/2441660/old-halifax-memorial-library-could-be-home-to-volta-labs/)after a renovation. Depends on provincial action though, so...

I have a feeling that this is another project that the Provincial Government is footdragging on, just like Imagine Bloomfield.

Why? Just so that it can be announced in the lead up to the new election.

Mark my words. Volta Labs will be announced to great fanfare in summer/fall before election.

Just look how cynical and pathetic this McNeil Government truly is -- they have sat on countless Halifax projects that were able to be fast tracked literally on the day of their election, or shortly thereafter, but have let them sit, to use them as pawns/pieces for re-election.

Have we ever really had a competent Provincial Government? Serious question. I think we've always been governed by yahoos since probably Joe Howe gave up.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Have we ever really had a competent Provincial Government? Serious question. I think we've always been governed by yahoos since probably Joe Howe gave up.

Ha ha... good question. I can't remember any...

[RoshanMcG]

Not sure if anyone is following the renovation of Dal's SUB but here's an update.

http://i64.tinypic.com/jk838w.jpg

[Metalsales]

The real portion of the Dal SUB building renovation should be happening in the early summer. They are bumping out the portion along LeMarchant st and there is a large glass wall with a hanging vine on the top 1/3.

[counterfactual]

Great piece by Paul Krugman in the New York Times taking on building heights as contributing to housing costs (that are pricing working families out of cities):

Cities for Everyone
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/opinion/cities-for-everyone.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[OldDartmouthMark]

Great piece by Paul Krugman in the New York Times taking on building heights as contributing to housing costs (that are pricing working families out of cities):

Cities for Everyone
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/04/opinion/cities-for-everyone.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it!

Fascinating to read that in New York City, the poster child for high towers and urban living, height restrictions and NIMBYism are still issues. In reading this forum one might be led to believe that these issues were unique to Halifax - seems it's not so. ;)

[Keith P.]

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it!

Fascinating to read that in New York City, the poster child for high towers and urban living, height restrictions and NIMBYism are still issues. In reading this forum one might be led to believe that these issues were unique to Halifax - seems it's not so. ;)

Nobody in NYC calls a 5-storey building a high-rise though. We do. :hell:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Nobody in NYC calls a 5-storey building a high-rise though. We do. :hell:

:haha:

[Drybrain]

CBC had a report on the Pacific Building today (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-scotia/dongdu-investments-pacific-building-loop-chives-barrington-1.3537802). Apparently the owners, Dongdu International (DDI), are doing exactly what they did to properties in Detroit. After promising to restore the building, they're now just sitting on it and refusing to fix leaks or do even basic maintenance. They're also installing permanent scaffolding outside to catch bits of the falling facade. They still say they want to turn the property into a boutique hotel, but given their work in other cities, and their totally bizarre business plan in Nova Scotia (turn Guysborough County into an international film production centre with a bunch of those weird ersatz Chinese model villages) it's probably safe to say the company is unreliable to say the least.

Hopefully the city will step in before the Pacific Building is too deteriorated to salvage, which I imagine is exactly what will happen, unless DDI sells it first.

[OldDartmouthMark]

CBC had a report on the Pacific Building today (http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/nova-scotia/dongdu-investments-pacific-building-loop-chives-barrington-1.3537802). Apparently the owners, Dongdu International (DDI), are doing exactly what they did to properties in Detroit. After promising to restore the building, they're now just sitting on it and refusing to fix leaks or do even basic maintenance. They're also installing permanent scaffolding outside to catch bits of the falling facade. They still say they want to turn the property into a boutique hotel, but given their work in other cities, and their totally bizarre business plan in Nova Scotia (turn Guysborough County into an international film production centre with a bunch of those weird ersatz Chinese model villages) it's probably safe to say the company is unreliable to say the least.

Hopefully the city will step in before the Pacific Building is too deteriorated to salvage, which I imagine is exactly what will happen, unless DDI sells it first.

That doesn't sound good. :(

Really, if a foreign investment company buys a building, what can the city actually do to force them to maintain/restore the building? One would think that the grant money would be a good investment for them presuming that the value of the building will increase accordingly to the investment:

HRM $100K grant

Meanwhile, the Pacific Building has been recommended for a grant of $100,000 and a tax credit of not more than $160,500 as part of Halifax's Barrington Street Heritage Conservation District Financial Incentives Program.

This would help restore and renovate the building, including reinstating the original storefronts with new doors, windows and upper facade.

To get the money, DongDu would have to match the grant amount. To get the tax credit, the company must undertake work over $200,000 in value.

Read the full Halifax report recommending the Pacific Building receive a grant and tax credit

The grant money would be released only once the work is complete. There is no word on when DongDu International plans to begin the work.

However if their plan was only to buy it, sit on it for a few years and presumably flip it for profit, what can actually be done to ensure that the building has a future?

I'm doubtful that the city has much power at all to persuade them to do anything...

[Drybrain]

However if their plan was only to buy it, sit on it for a few years and presumably flip it for profit, what can actually be done to ensure that the building has a future?

I'm doubtful that the city has much power at all to persuade them to do anything...

If the city can't technically do anything about Rob Steele and his neighbourhood-destroying parking lot in the North End, what can they do about one building?

Nothing.

There's a serious reticence among Halifax councillors to actually go head-to-head with property owners when the latters' plans are legally permissible but fall afoul of good planning or the common good of the city.

This is not the case in every city, but here we get a lot of "what can you do, they're not technically doing anything wrong" shoulder-shrugging. So those of us who care will just have to watch this one, and hope DDI either makes an about-face and fixes the building (I strongly doubt it) or sells it to a more responsible owner soon enough to salvage it.

Ideally, a heritage designation would give the city the power to step in and make repairs in cases like this, ensuring a heritage building's basic aesthetic and structural integrity. Then the city could expenses those costs on to the owner. But good luck getting any kind of heritage regulation that tough in this province/city.

[Keith P.]

There's a serious reticence among Halifax councillors to actually go head-to-head with property owners when the latters' plans are legally permissible but fall afoul of good planning or the common good of the city.


That is a troubling statement.

Govts exist to pass laws, not pass seat-of-the-pants judgements about what property owners may or may not do to their property.

If there is an issue, they need to pass a law to resolve the issue, not exercise their will by fiat.

[Drybrain]

That is a troubling statement.

Govts exist to pass laws, not pass seat-of-the-pants judgements about what property owners may or may not do to their property.

If there is an issue, they need to pass a law to resolve the issue, not exercise their will by fiat.

I don't think governments should just impose their will upon property owners above and beyond the law, but Halifax is unusually laissez-faire when it comes to ensuring commercial property owners abide by decent community standards.

In the case of Rob Steele, for example, the law permits him to rip down a neighbourhood for parking. The situation is so exceptionally awful that I think the government would be fully justified in withholding as-of-right demolition permits and passing some kind of protection for the district while the situation gets sorted out.

In the case of the Pacific Building, if it gets so bad that the buildings could become endangered, the city should fix it and send DDI the bill.

Neither of these would be particularly extreme solutions.

[counterfactual]

I don't think governments should just impose their will upon property owners above and beyond the law, but Halifax is unusually laissez-faire when it comes to ensuring commercial property owners abide by decent community standards.

In the case of Rob Steele, for example, the law permits him to rip down a neighbourhood for parking. The situation is so exceptionally awful that I think the government would be fully justified in withholding as-of-right demolition permits and passing some kind of protection for the district while the situation gets sorted out.

In the case of the Pacific Building, if it gets so bad that the buildings could become endangered, the city should fix it and send DDI the bill.

Neither of these would be particularly extreme solutions.

I'm sure a lot of the developers along Robie would also strongly oppose this. The area is an important one for densification, which is already beginning. And car dealership in the middle of it would be a planning disaster.

[Drybrain]

I'm sure a lot of the developers along Robie would also strongly oppose this. The area is an important one for densification, which is already beginning. And car dealership in the middle of it would be a planning disaster.

Yeah, probably 90 percent of Robie Street above North would be better off being torn down and redeveloped (and not as parking lots, obviously). I get the sense that a lot of property owners are happy with it being a big-box district for now, but surely that can't last forever.

[someone123]

I don't think governments should just impose their will upon property owners above and beyond the law, but Halifax is unusually laissez-faire when it comes to ensuring commercial property owners abide by decent community standards.

I guess this is a somewhat philosophical discussion about balancing the rights of the public with private property rights. One observation I'll make is that the property value gains that speculators cash in on are generated not so much by the speculators themselves but by general improvement to the area, which is the work of the government and more importantly a large number of engaged locals. We're not talking about people who just want to be left alone in their cabin on a deserted island, we're talking about (usually rich) profit maximizers. Also, the very idea of property ownership cannot exist without government support; it is not a purely "private" or ruggedly individualist thing to demand that the government protect and service a plot of urban land for you.

Another observation is that there aren't many nice laissez-faire cities out there. Most of the nice cities (New York, Boston, San Francisco, Paris, London, etc.) have fairly "activist" urban planning departments and/or neighbourhood associations. Cities like Houston, and I guess most of the Third World, are in the laissez-faire camp. Often development controls in big cities are taken too far and causes affordability problems but Halifax is nowhere near that point. There are so many neighbourhoods that could look great but instead remain dumpy because of a few property speculators or slumlords. Often the speculators make money off of gentrification that is happening in spite of rather than because of them. If the speculators/developers were banned from doing this they're just move on to some other investments and the neighbourhoods would be better off. There are plenty of good development opportunities in the city that don't involve sabotaging heritage buildings and cohesive residential neighbourhoods; the city planning department and regional council should be shepherding private investors around to coordinate this.

From a planning perspective, 90% of the city is more appropriate for the car dealership than this spot along North Street.

The situation gets even more absurd when we start talking about foreign-owned slumlord properties and flipping. Hopefully that's not what the Pacific Building situation is, but if so then there is no value to the city to be had there and it makes no sense for the municipality to bend over backward to please the owners. All temporary foreign slumlords do is cash in off of rising property values created by others, then take that money out of the local economy. It would be better even to have a local slumlord who's at least going to spend more of that money in the city. Let the speculators go and commodify the cultural and architectural heritage of some other city.

[Colin May]

I guess this is a somewhat philosophical discussion about balancing the rights of the public with private property rights. One observation I'll make is that the property value gains that speculators cash in on are generated not so much by the speculators themselves but by general improvement to the area, which is the work of the government and more importantly a large number of engaged locals. We're not talking about people who just want to be left alone in their cabin on a deserted island, we're talking about (usually rich) profit maximizers. Also, the very idea of property ownership cannot exist without government support; it is not a purely "private" or ruggedly individualist thing to demand that the government protect and service a plot of urban land for you.

Another observation is that there aren't many nice laissez-faire cities out there. Most of the nice cities (New York, Boston, San Francisco, Paris, London, etc.) have fairly "activist" urban planning departments and/or neighbourhood associations. Cities like Houston, and I guess most of the Third World, are in the laissez-faire camp. Often development controls in big cities are taken too far and causes affordability problems but Halifax is nowhere near that point. There are so many neighbourhoods that could look great but instead remain dumpy because of a few property speculators or slumlords. Often the speculators make money off of gentrification that is happening in spite of rather than because of them. If the speculators/developers were banned from doing this they're just move on to some other investments and the neighbourhoods would be better off. There are plenty of good development opportunities in the city that don't involve sabotaging heritage buildings and cohesive residential neighbourhoods; the city planning department and regional council should be shepherding private investors around to coordinate this.

From a planning perspective, 90% of the city is more appropriate for the car dealership than this spot along North Street.

The situation gets even more absurd when we start talking about foreign-owned slumlord properties and flipping. Hopefully that's not what the Pacific Building situation is, but if so then there is no value to the city to be had there and it makes no sense for the municipality to bend over backward to please the owners. All temporary foreign slumlords do is cash in off of rising property values created by others, then take that money out of the local economy. It would be better even to have a local slumlord who's at least going to spend more of that money in the city. Let the speculators go and commodify the cultural and architectural heritage of some other city.
Expropriation is our friend.
When HRM was discussing closing fire stations they referenced a 2 year old Fire Department report which mentioned over 90 properties used a boarding houses and uninspected & without permits. There has been no subsequent report on what action HRM has taken.

[OldDartmouthMark]

More...

DongDu International's Nova Scotia developments slow to take shape

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/dongdu-international-nova-scotia-plans-real-estate-1.3541493

[NorthDarksider]

Did anyone else attend the first open house for Dexel's Spring Garden West project last night? The presenter managed to get through introductions before the first two people stood up to complain about potential wind effects. (This building has no design yet, how could anyone assume anything about wind at this stage?) The second actually managed to point out that the presenter was from Vancouver, and since "this is Halifax", there was obviously noting to be learned from him.

The early project goals for SGW look promising, but the surrounding community looks like an utter embarrassment after last night.

[Drybrain]

The early project goals for SGW look promising, but the surrounding community looks like an utter embarrassment after last night.

You thought? It was just that one cranky guy, it seems, and he got pretty quickly shut down. (There was another guy later who was kind of freaking out over the lack of green space, but again, it didn't feel to me like he had the room's sympathy.)

In fact, I didn't really hear anyone talk about height as if it was a problem in and of itself. People expressed concern over wind and sunlight, but no one seemed to object to tallness on principle, and it felt like most people accepted that it will be a tall building, and the conversation moved on to other design elements. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

One thing I thought is the developer talked a lot about how to step the project down as it meets SGR, in order to create a human-scaled streetscape rather than a massive wall. I really wish they'd consider using one or two of the existing structures to that end, especially the Coburg Apartments. It has such a great presence along Coburg Road, and it's one of the few pre-war apartment houses in the city. Most of the block can be demolished, no problem, but I think that building is well worth restoring. The hypothetical massing they showed depicted the building coming down to only four or five storeys on the corner anyway.

[Keith P.]

Did anyone else attend the first open house for Dexel's Spring Garden West project last night? The presenter managed to get through introductions before the first two people stood up to complain about potential wind effects. (This building has no design yet, how could anyone assume anything about wind at this stage?) The second actually managed to point out that the presenter was from Vancouver, and since "this is Halifax", there was obviously noting to be learned from him.

The early project goals for SGW look promising, but the surrounding community looks like an utter embarrassment after last night.


Seriously?

This is pure Haligonia. Unbelievable.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Doesn't seem too crazy, except the Vancouver comment. It seems to me that if there is concern about potential wind effects, that now - in the design phase - is the time to deal with it. Not that the architect wouldn't be aware of it anyhow, but still not an unreasonable concern to be raised IMHO.

As has been mentioned on this forum many times over, NIMBYs are not unique to Halifax. Every city has them, and if I understand it correctly from other posters, in many cities they are worse than ours. :2cents:

[Drybrain]

Just a re-up that the EAC is hosting a meeting tonight at 5 about the Colonial Honda plan to rip down the Fern Lane area and build a parking lot. It's mainly a local neighbourhood thing, but it's open to anyone, especially North Enders generally.

The councillor has been reticent to go too aggressive on the issue since it's permitted by zoning, but I think she can be swayed to take a harder stance. Again, I think an email to her plus the mayor would go a long way to edging things towards a firmer anti-Colonial Honda stance.

[someone123]

One thing I thought is the developer talked a lot about how to step the project down as it meets SGR, in order to create a human-scaled streetscape rather than a massive wall. I really wish they'd consider using one or two of the existing structures to that end, especially the Coburg Apartments. It has such a great presence along Coburg Road, and it's one of the few pre-war apartment houses in the city. Most of the block can be demolished, no problem, but I think that building is well worth restoring. The hypothetical massing they showed depicted the building coming down to only four or five storeys on the corner anyway.

The Spring Garden Road facade of the apartment building isn't that impressive but the Robie side would look great if it were cleaned up a bit (and ideally painted something other than "about-to-be-demolished blue"). Over a decade ago the wooden facade of the Garden Crest apartments was preserved and they were built into a nice mixed-use development with a highrise component. That should be possible here too. The fact that the developer is asking for input before the plans have come out is encouraging.

I think 5950 and 5954 SGR should be preserved as well. Something could be done to either preserve the facade of the townhouse/apartment building to the right of 5954, or at least the bay window style could be added to a portion of the new building as a nod to one of the city's best vernacular styles. Imagine how nice it would be if there were a kind of competent reinterpretation of that building into a 4 or 5 storey apartment building similar in scale to what you might see in Brooklyn.

Something on this scale but in a style more typical of Halifax: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.6874361,-73.9656808,3a,75y,97.33h,105.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDqVFrqa4wxI7DNazOoVGTg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

That would provide the transition to the heritage homes but then there would be modern elements and a highrise in behind.

[Keith P.]

I'm not sure the Garden Crest example is one you want to use. I have been in those units and they are not particularly attractive. Dark, because of the old facade design, and they feel enclosed and cramped.