[omro]

Not sure if this is the right subforum, if it's not, please can a moderator move it.

The question I have is...

Are there any more examples of Art Deco in Hamilton?

You've the TH&B station (now the GO) on Hunter Street, which I went and gawped at during my last visit, and I've just seen a photo of Hamilton Hydro, another fabulous Art Deco building, which I'll have to find to look at during my next visit.

Any more?

[vid]

Piggott Building. :yes:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/419421175_a5a7f66c85.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/batmanda/419421175/)
By batmanda (http://www.flickr.com/photos/batmanda/)

[matt602]

I thought the Piggott was Gothic or something?

[omro]

Piggott Building is definitely gothic, gorgeous though

[astroblaster]

The Bell Telephone Baker Exchange on Jackson St.

http://www.historicalhamilton.com/durand/bell-telephone-baker-exchange/

http://www.historicalhamilton.com/media/images/381.jpg

[astroblaster]

I've heard the Pigott building being described as a mix of Art-Deco and Gothic Revival

[flar]

Art Deco is usually a grand building, with geometric shapes and "decorations" carved on it, like the Courthouse:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/downtown2008/00030-00032.jpg

[SteelTown]

Isn't the GO Station art deco?

[astroblaster]

i think the Go Station is considered Art-Moderne as opposed to Art-Deco

This site has some definitions:
http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/

[omro]

The Bell Telephone Baker Exchange on Jackson St.

http://www.historicalhamilton.com/durand/bell-telephone-baker-exchange/

http://www.historicalhamilton.com/media/images/381.jpg

Nice building, though not quite what I would have thought to be Art Deco. Not quite sure what style that is, but the doorway is all wrong for Deco.

[omro]

Art Deco is usually a grand building, with geometric shapes and "decorations" carved on it, like the Courthouse:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/downtown2008/00030-00032.jpg

And again, not sure if that's Deco, it's too highly ornamented to be Deco based on what I've seen of the style here in the UK.

[omro]

i think the Go Station is considered Art-Moderne as opposed to Art-Deco

This site has some definitions:
http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/

Art Moderne has more organic ornamentation, the GO is too crisp and clean to be Art Moderne. IMHO.

[astroblaster]

And again, not sure if that's Deco, it's too highly ornamented to be Deco based on what I've seen of the style here in the UK.

Do you have any examples of UK Deco? I'd be interested to see them

[SteelTown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamilton_(GO_Station)

"Hamilton GO Centre is the only example of Art Deco railway station architecture in Canada."

[highwater]

The Pigott building is Art Deco in its stepped back form, but the decorative program is definitely neo-Gothic.

The Port Authority building is another lovely Art Deco building, and there are a number of Art Deco homes using structural steel frames, at least two of them built by Pigott. One of them appears in Flar's Durand photo essay. There are a couple of beauties in Westdale, one of which is currently being restored.

[raisethehammer]

there's a really cool little Art Deco building on Main East near Emerald/Tisdale on the north side.
It's more of a Miami Beach style Art Deco. It's apartments. With some coloured exterior lighting at night it would fit right in on the beach in Miami.

[omro]

However, that said, looking at the website...

Half of what it says is Art Moderne, I'd have said was Deco. :haha:

Maybe in the UK we see both styles and just lump them together as Deco.

Here the sweeping curves, that it has in its Art Moderne page, would certainly be called Deco.

That said, one lead on from the other, so they could just have been lumped together in our defintions :-)

[flar]

I think the definitions mesh together, often the more simple buildings with rounded corners, corner windows and stainless steel (like GO Centre or Hamilton Hydro) are called art moderne and the more elaborate ones (like LIUNA Stations) are called art deco. But they look similar to me.

LIUNA Station
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/james/00255-00259_3.jpg

Port Authority
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/summerhammer/00187.jpg

detail:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/bayfront2008/00260.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/bayfront2008/00257.jpg


Hamilton Hydro
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/summerhammer/00165.jpg

GO Centre

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/corktwn/00175.jpg

House in Durand (rear view unfortunately):
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/durand/00049.jpg

[omro]

From Timeout's website, the quintessential Art Deco building, the former Hoover building (now owned by Tesco).

http://www.timeout.com/img/35009/image.jpg

I can't find an image of this apartment block just next to Marylebone Station that is what I would call Deco, I'll keep hunting.

In the meantime, here's a small image from EasyOffices.com with an example of clean lines Deco, with the curve instead of a corner.

http://www.easyoffices.com/propertyimages/1_18650.JPG

Aha! Found a site with some fantastic example of London's Art Deco, one of which is the apartment building used in the Poirot TV series, which is again what I consider Deco with the curves :-)

Art of the State (http://www.artofthestate.co.uk/london_photos/London_art_deco_photos_004.htm)

[omro]

I think the definitions mesh together, often the more simple buildings with rounded corners, corner windows and stainless steel (like GO Centre or Hamilton Hydro) are called art moderne and the more elaborate ones (like LIUNA Stations) are called art deco. But they look similar to me.

LIUNA Station
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/james/00255-00259_3.jpg


Every one of your examples, except this one I'd say were Deco. This is Classical Revival according to the OntarioArchitechture site quoted earlier.

I'm loving the Hamilton port Authority Building btw :-)

[omro]

As an aside, how dare people say bad things about Hamilton when it has examples of buildings like these!!

[omro]

Were the TH&B Station, Hydro Building (was it always that?) and the Port Authority all designed by the same people?

[flar]

I'm just the opposite, out of those pics I think only the train station is deco because of the carvings on it (I don't have closeups) :) The others I would call moderne. The columns are undoubtedly classical, but that's what makes architectural classification so difficult: styles are so often mixed.

[astroblaster]

The Port Authority building is another lovely Art Deco building, restored.

oh yah.. forgot about this one.. beautiful building

[omro]

but that's what makes architectural classification so difficult: styles are so often mixed.

Ah, but that's what makes it so much fun to go and have a look at these places and admire them :-)

[flar]

There are a couple really nice examples of art deco in London, Ontario. The Dominion Public Building is my favourite building in that city.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/london/00106.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/london/00330.jpg

[omro]

How cool :-) Love those buildings, who said concrete has to be drab!

Love the way you guys stick your flag on everything. We're not allowed to do that here, it's politically incorrect, racist or something....

[go_leafs_go02]

There are a couple really nice examples of art deco in London, Ontario. The Dominion Public Building is my favourite building in that city.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/london/00106.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k28/segaert/london/00330.jpg
that top building (the old post office I believe) is an absolute gem inside too.

and you can't fly Canadian flags here on public buildings? Now that's what I find an insult. I love american cities in a way for their patriotism, look at any skyline, you'll see several HUGE flags on top of buildings.

[go_leafs_go02]

From Timeout's website, the quintessential Art Deco building, the former Hoover building (now owned by Tesco).

http://www.timeout.com/img/35009/image.jpg


I drove by the hoover building last summer quite by chance. What a gorgeous building! :)

[omro]

that top building (the old post office I believe) is an absolute gem inside too.

and you can't fly Canadian flags here on public buildings? Now that's what I find an insult. I love american cities in a way for their patriotism, look at any skyline, you'll see several HUGE flags on top of buildings.

I was talking about british flags in the UK. Thanks to far right groups, the Union Jack is now seen as offensive to minorities and is rarely flown except officially.

[highwater]

However, that said, looking at the website...

Half of what it says is Art Moderne, I'd have said was Deco. :haha:

Maybe in the UK we see both styles and just lump them together as Deco.

Here the sweeping curves, that it has in its Art Moderne page, would certainly be called Deco.

That said, one lead on from the other, so they could just have been lumped together in our defintions :-)

I only have an undergraduate degree so I'm no expert, but I specialized in 19th and 20th century North American architecture, and my fourth year dissertation was on New York Art Deco skyscrapers, so I'm a bit of a Deco geek. Here's my semi-educated opinion. What we call 'Art Deco' had two distinct phases: the earlier, more decorative style of the 20's, typified by the Dominion Public Building (now the courthouse), and the more streamlined style of the 30's typified by the Go station. I think you Brits are correct to lump them together. 'Art Moderne' is really more of a popular term rather than a scholarly one IMO, and is better understood as a sub-category of Art Deco.

[omro]

I only have an undergraduate degree so I'm no expert, but I specialized in 19th and 20th century North American architecture, and my fourth year dissertation was on New York Art Deco skyscrapers, so I'm a bit of a Deco geek.

Your degree sounds so cool compared to mine

[flar]

I only have an undergraduate degree so I'm no expert, but I specialized in 19th and 20th century North American architecture, and my fourth year dissertation was on New York Art Deco skyscrapers, so I'm a bit of a Deco geek. Here's my semi-educated opinion. What we call 'Art Deco' had two distinct phases: the earlier, more decorative style of the 20's, typified by the Dominion Public Building (now the courthouse), and the more streamlined style of the 30's typified by the Go station. I think you Brits are correct to lump them together. 'Art Moderne' is really more of a popular term rather than a scholarly one IMO, and is better understood as a sub-category of Art Deco.

Educated enough for me and makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

[highwater]

Your degree sounds so cool compared to mine

Yeah. The really cool part is all the job opportunities in the exciting, fast-paced world of Art Deco skyscraper arcana. Now you'll have to excuse me. Someone needs to have their butt wiped.

[adam]

Compare LIUNA station to the Roman Pantheon - Classical Roman architecture at its finest. Notice the triangular gable at both entrances and classical columns. LIUNA's smaller entrance to the side also has a triangular roman gable.

I think a lot of these buildings we are talking about are a combination of a couple or even a few styles...

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/liuna_station.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Pantheon_rome_2005may.jpg/300px-Pantheon_rome_2005may.jpg
LIUNA vs. Pantheon

[astroblaster]

I only have an undergraduate degree so I'm no expert, but I specialized in 19th and 20th century North American architecture, and my fourth year dissertation was on New York Art Deco skyscrapers, so I'm a bit of a Deco geek. Here's my semi-educated opinion. What we call 'Art Deco' had two distinct phases: the earlier, more decorative style of the 20's, typified by the Dominion Public Building (now the courthouse), and the more streamlined style of the 30's typified by the Go station. I think you Brits are correct to lump them together. 'Art Moderne' is really more of a popular term rather than a scholarly one IMO, and is better understood as a sub-category of Art Deco.

thanks! i should do some more reading on these topics. any suggestions on books that provide a decent summary, either of art-deco or an overview of various architectural styles?

[highwater]

One of my favourites for the layman is Architecture: the Natural and the Manmade by Vincent Scully. It's very readable and very well illustrated, and is available used on Chapters.

A good pocket field guide is American Architecture Since 1780: a Guide to the Styles by Marcus Whiffen, although he weirdly calls Art Deco "Modernistic". Also available used on Chapters.

The definitive text for architecture wonks is probably Architecture: Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries by Henry Russell Hitchcock, also used on Chapters.

The indispensable resource for architecture keeners as far as I'm concerned, is The Penguin Dictionary of Architecture by Nikolaus Pevsner, John Fleming, and Hugh Honour. An encyclopedia of architects, styles, and terms. Soon you'll be using words like 'fenestration' and boring people at cocktail parties. I keep it by my bedside in case I forget what a lesbian cymantium is. (It's a cyma reversa with a leaf and dart motif! Honestly, you people.;) ) Available used on Amazon.

Have fun!

[astroblaster]

thanks!

[flar]

You wanna see Art Deco? Check out Buffalo: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158116

[vid]

Thunder Bay's Royal Edward Arms is a mash up of Art Deco and Neo Gothic from 1928 and Windsor has a highrise that is also a combination, which I why I posted the Piggott building. It fits into both categories, imo. Architecture isn't one of those things where buildings fit neatly into categories. Fort William Colligate in Thunder Bay combines Beaux-Arts and Gothic Revival. Like Piggott, it has a Beaux-Arts form but Gothic ornament.

I guess some architects couldn't help themselves when it came to the ornamentation part, but it's produced some wonderful results.

Here is an Art Moderne house from Ontario Architecture:

http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/ModerneHamilt.jpg
http://www.ontarioarchitecture.com/Artmoderne.htm

[highwater]

That's my friend's house! It's right here in Hamilton near the University. They've done a beautiful job on it.

Pedant alert: Pigott is spelled with one 'g'. Thanks!


Thanks for the Buffalo link, Flar. I adore Buffalo. I used to spend more time there when I lived in St. Catharines. Oddly, you missed the most sublime of all Buffalo buildings (and I mean Sublime in the 19th century Romantic sense, ie. TERRIFYING), the NY State Mental Hospital by H.H. Richardson.

http://nysasylum.com/bpc/bpchome.htm

You could do an entire thread just on it alone. It is truly jaw-dropping.

And don't even get me started on the FLW houses.

Get to work, Flar! ;)

[flar]

^^I didn't have enough time to go beyond downtown Buffalo. I think the old mental hospital is a ways north of downtown? I didn't go to Central Terminal either, but I got an aerial view of it.

[highwater]

It's not too far from the Albright-Knox, if memory serves. We stumbled upon it wandering around after a visit to the gallery. I'm a big architecture fan, but I haven't been impacted by many buildings as much as I was by the hospital. It's hard to put into words. I didn't realize what it was until I got home and had a chance to look it up. Definitely worth a trip back to Buffalo, and the FLW houses are up that way as well. I have a handy pocket guide to Buffalo architecture I'd be happy to lend you if you want to plan another trip.

The industrial waterfront is a thing to behold as well, but I wouldn't want you running afoul of US Customs!

[omro]

You wanna see Art Deco? Check out Buffalo: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=158116

Funny, Buffalo is another city I was told was a rat hole, but doesn't look it from your photos.

I guess it might be the people, not the buildings though...

[adam]

Buffalo is in the process of getting gentrified..

[flar]

Funny, Buffalo is another city I was told was a rat hole, but doesn't look it from your photos.

I guess it might be the people, not the buildings though...


Contrary to popular belief, Buffalo is very clean. There are some rundown residential areas, but I think many of them have been demolished.

[DC83]

Funny, Buffalo is another city I was told was a rat hole, but doesn't look it from your photos.

I guess it might be the people, not the buildings though...

I actually like Buffalo as well. I find Buffalonians to be some of the nicest of the Americans I have come across. Especially in the Northern US.

The downtown IS very clean, but there's really nothing there unfortunately. If you like Architecture, you'll like downtown Buffalo. If you like shopping/people watching, you'll want to avoid downtown Buffalo. Elmwood village, just outside downtown (pretty much same distance as Locke St to Hamilton's CBD) is a good place to visit for that.

'Real' shopping is best done at their Walden Galleria Mall though.

[omro]

Which city is bigger?
Buffalo or Hamilton?

[SteelTown]

City of Hamilton is bigger, Buffalo has been losing tons of people over the years. But Buffalo has bigger suburbs, in USA they cover a larger area than Canada for metro population.

[flar]

Setting aside municipal boundaries, Buffalo is bigger with a metropolitan statistical area of 1.1 million.

[DC83]

Which city is bigger?
Buffalo or Hamilton?

Buffalo has a larger population, but it's residents are ALL in the suburbs. The city proper has a pretty high abandon rate.

Check out Wikipedia.org I actually had to research this info a while ago and was dumbfounded by the loss of population Buffalo has gone thru. This is pretty much the same for any American city tho. Americans love suburbs, what can I say.

Buffalo Metro: 1.25 Million people
Buffalo City: 292,000

Census Pop. %±
1830 8,668 —
1840 18,213 110.1%
1850 42,261 132%
1860 81,129 92%
1870 117,714 45.1%
1880 155,134 31.8%
1890 255,664 64.8%
1900 352,387 37.8%
1910 423,715 20.2%
1920 506,775 19.6%
1930 573,076 13.1%
1940 575,901 0.5%
1950 580,132 0.7%
1960 532,759 −8.2%
1970 462,768 −13.1%
1980 357,870 −22.7%
1990 328,123 −8.3%
2000 292,648 −10.8%
Est. 2007 272,632 −6.8%
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo,_New_York

So pretty much, growth slowed to a crawl in the 40's and started to reverse in the 50's... same time suburbs were coming around.