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waterloowarrior
Sep 17, 2008, 3:54 AM
'Creative' $60M project for Baseline

Maria Cook
Ottawa Citizen

Tuesday, September 16, 2008

OTTAWA-The company that brought Ottawa the South Keys shopping mall says it is planning a very different kind of project on the former Laurentian High School site at Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue.

"We have a design and concept that has not been done here," SmartCentres vice-president Dennis Eberhard said Tuesday.

"It should be a drastic improvement and catalyst for redevelopment in an area of town in need of an injection of some interesting buildings and a place for people to shop and enjoy."

SmartCentres is proposing a $60-million mixed-use development. The 15.5-acre site would feature two- and three-storey buildings containing stores, offices and possibly condos, a big-box store, as well as a highrise tower.

The concept includes a pocket park, paved squares with seating and pedestrian and bicycle paths connected to the adjacent Central Park community. Shopfronts face Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue and surround an interior surface parking lot as well.

"I am delighted that SmartCentres is contemplating a mixed-use development," said River Councillor Maria McRae who got a preview Tuesday.

"One of the big concerns of the community is they did not want another big-box commercial wasteland. They listened to the community concerns and they're contemplating a design that is very transit-friendly, cycling and pedestrian-friendly."

"They're good urban design so it's functional but blends nicely in the residential area. Their plan contemplates a very creative bus space, not your usual glass walled space."

The company plans to submit its proposal to the city this week as part of an application for rezoning from institutional use to commercial and residential. They also plan to present a preliminary design to the public in three or four weeks.

I think it's very interesting and very promising looking," said Stuart Sykes, president of the Central Park Community Association. "It's evident that they have tried to respond to early input we provided: concern about shadow effects, pedestrian access, traffic at the intersection. Putting the tallest development closest to Baseline and Clyde, that's very positive because it addresses the shadow effects."

Items he flagged for later scrutiny were the size of the pocket park - two-tenths of an acre - and the presence of a big-box store after residents said they didn't want a big-box mall.

Ms. McRae said she was impressed the developer took the unusual step of soliciting feedback before submitting the application. "Instead of being saddled with an application thrown on our desks, I'm hearing a developer say they want to work with the community. They're working with the city's traffic and transit planners."

The Ottawa-Carleton District School Board closed Laurentian High School in 2005 due to declining attendance. It sold the property last year for $21.26 million to SmartCentres, a Toronto-based real-estate developer that specializes in big-box developments anchored by Wal-Mart stores. Mr. Eberhard said they hope to demolish the school next year and begin construction next fall. The mall would include 15 to 35 stores. The big-box store could be 50,000 to 120,000 square feet. The company is not yet announcing what store it will be.

Shadow studies will be done for the tower. It's not known yet what height is envisioned. "It will be open to the interior so people can walk through into the site," said Mr. Eberhard. "It should be quite impressive. It is an important corner. We hope to take advantage of the profile and attention that corner gets because of all the people and traffic going by."

The company is planning a berm with grass and trees between the shopping centre and the neighbourhood. It is also conducting a traffic study. The intersection at Baseline and Clyde is busy and has a high collision rate. Options include extra turning lanes, built at the company's expense, and signals.

The city wants to encourage more intense development along Baseline, and to strengthen its role as a major east-west transit route and alternative for commuters who do not go downtown. It is planning a dedicated bus lane on Baseline Road, for which SmartCentres will give some land.

And, when light rail is implemented, the corner of Baseline and Woodroffe is envisioned as a transfer point between buses and light rail.

"Done right, the SmartCentre project could be a model for higher density development, says Ms. McRae. "If you drive there now, it is pretty scruffy looking," she says. "It is prime for intensification. They are contemplating a beautiful streetscape with sidewalks and stores as small as 1,000 square feet. Residents talked about having a place they could walk to for a coffee, a nice meal or a greeting card. There's nothing like that within walking distance of that area now."

© Ottawa Citizen 2008

CREDIT: Handout
shopping centre in Thornhill by Smartcentres
http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/553f4206-4dd2-4460-b754-377bcd92779f/shop.jpg

Deez
Sep 17, 2008, 4:07 AM
There IS a God.

Jamaican-Phoenix
Sep 17, 2008, 10:41 AM
While Smart Centres are definately a step up from bix box malls, it's still just one or two main streets with the sea of parking stuck in behind the buildings. ;)

bradnixon
Sep 17, 2008, 1:36 PM
If this is anything like the proposals for the Foundry district in Toronto, then I have no problem with it. (http://www.thefoundrydistrict.com)

clynnog
Sep 17, 2008, 1:42 PM
From what I have been hearing, Councillor Chiarelli is going to try and introduce a motion at the next Pl'g Committee Mt'g to have this area subject to a Community Design Plan....obviously that would throw a spanner in the works in terms of timing.

Needless to say, Councillor McRae isn't too thrilled as the site is wholly within her ward.

Ryersonian
Sep 17, 2008, 6:37 PM
and you thought traffic was bad now...

Rathgrith
Sep 25, 2008, 12:52 AM
You just wait until the residents of Central Park rip up Smartcentres during the next public consultation.

High income community + computer literate + anti Big Box = powerful force

Just check out their website: http://www.central-park.ottawa.on.ca/

harls
Sep 25, 2008, 12:19 PM
Agreed on the traffic in that area.. it's atrocious.

waterloowarrior
Oct 20, 2008, 4:21 PM
the application is in (http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__6FR6CR)

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/laurentian_siteplan.jpg

adam-machiavelli
Oct 20, 2008, 5:32 PM
*snicker*
Very New Urban indeed!

harls
Oct 20, 2008, 6:14 PM
It reminds me of an old west town, on a Hollywood lot. Fake storefronts along the streets, with nothing behind (i.e. numerous parking stalls).

waterloowarrior
Oct 20, 2008, 9:32 PM
"Residential development was considered for this concept, and Smart Centres contacted residential developers about this idea. However, the response was either disinterest or an insistence on an unacceptable business arrangement due to highly differing land values. It is Smart Centres’ desire to include residential uses as part of the long-term potential for the site, but the immediate development program is for retail, service, and office uses."

eemy
Oct 21, 2008, 1:36 PM
To be fair, it's an honest effort to create a more positive streetscape while accomodating the typical suburban retail. I think it's a little unrealistic to expect developers to create the sort of street retail we love at a location like this. Even if they did decide to try to recreate that sort of streetscape, I can't see it facing the major roads, and then we're dealing with the problem of having the backs of buildings to the major thoroughfares again.

Until there is a fundamental shift in the policy for suburban districts as well change in the nature of development away from large blocks, I can't see something like the old style of streetscape returning.

waterloowarrior
Feb 1, 2009, 5:06 PM
http://www.laurentianredevelopment.com/

http://www.laurentianredevelopment.com/images/fd-header-01.jpg

bradnixon
Feb 1, 2009, 7:13 PM
I think it's worthwhile to read the Planning Rationale report from the application:
http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%20Referencing_Zoning%20Bylaw%20Amendment%20Application_Image%20Reference_Planning_Rationale_D02-02-08-0106.PDF

The big box store is at the back of the lot so that the building shields the backyards of the houses to the north from the noise and lighting of the parking lot.

It also specifically states that the buildings along Baseline and Clyde will have entrances from both the street and the parking lot:
From page 15 of the PDF:
"It is intended that the street side and interior side of these buildings will have full architectural treatment and full accesses."

Frankly I think this is the best bix-box type development this city has yet seen.

waterloowarrior
Feb 1, 2009, 7:33 PM
http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/smartcentreslaurentian1.jpg

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/smartcentreslaurentian2.jpg

m0nkyman
Feb 2, 2009, 4:10 AM
It also specifically states that the buildings along Baseline and Clyde will have entrances from both the street and the parking lot:
From page 15 of the PDF:
"It is intended that the street side and interior side of these buildings will have full architectural treatment and full accesses."


I've seen that tried before. The stores close off the street side entrance and basically ignore it.The parking lot entrance is the one everyone ends up having to use, and the street side looks like crap.

It's a nice idea, but bound to failure...

eemy
Feb 2, 2009, 12:35 PM
Well, it's a start. It's certainly one of the first examples I've seen of the "main street" being on, well, the main street rather than off some private thoroughfare through the development.

harls
Feb 2, 2009, 2:34 PM
What's with all the pastel colours?

lrt's friend
Feb 2, 2009, 2:55 PM
What's with all the pastel colours?

Yes, I like the traditional use of red brick or other darker colours.

Notice all the awnings in the design, a bit of a throwback to the old days before there was air conditioning. Will they actually be included when they are built? The nice thing about awnings in the old days is that they were rolled up during the colder months allowing sunlight in. Will these be permanent structures?

The large gap between Building E and F has been de-emphasized in all the drawings. Of course, the developer does not want to hide the big box store from the main street (Baseline), but the main street feel is destroyed in the process.

The design still also emphasizes convenience to the car driver, otherwise the sidewalk entering from the intersection would have been extended directly towards the main store.

Richard Eade
Feb 2, 2009, 3:20 PM
There doesn't seem to be any thought about the Baseline BRT.

Rathgrith
Feb 2, 2009, 3:49 PM
What the hell is the architecture theme going to be?

waterloowarrior
Feb 2, 2009, 9:15 PM
There doesn't seem to be any thought about the Baseline BRT.

It is mentioned in the traffic study and there are provisions for a major transit stop in the planning rationale

Lloyd
May 27, 2009, 3:25 PM
Post removed.

waterloowarrior
Sep 15, 2009, 2:42 AM
Staff Report recommending approval... some interesting site specific zoning (http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2009/09-22/2-ACS2009-ICS-PGM-0131.htm)

Dado
Sep 15, 2009, 4:24 AM
Staff Report recommending approval... some interesting site specific zoning (http://www.ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2009/09-22/2-ACS2009-ICS-PGM-0131.htm)

Also some interesting commentary in the section 'Assessment of Development Proposal'.

The following is worth reading:


Not having the development street oriented, in staff’s view, can also frustrate achieving more intense development where surface parking is currently proposed adding further to the significance of certain details of staff’s recommendation. With a street orientation as called for by the Official Plan, there exists potential to replace the surface parking with structured parking and higher profile residential and/or office development above. In this regard, notwithstanding the allowed heights under the Official Plan for development along arterial mainstreets and the applicant’s proposal for a low profile development with three-storey and one storey buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, the Official Plan as noted allows for eight storey development along arterial mainstreets and supports higher buildings where any one of several conditions are meet. Under this policy, staff feel that buildings to a height of 15 storeys can be accommodated internally on the site with height limits stepping down to the north to ensure a compatible relationship between heights on the site and adjacent areas to the north while limiting heights adjacent to the street edge to eight stories.

Higher profile development internal to the site with an eight storey street edge profile will allow for intensifying development and would better define the street at a building height to street width ratio that can further advance the Official Plan and Arterial Mainstreet design guideline objectives for having the street transformed to a more pedestrian focused urban street. However, the site needs to be organized such that this further intensification can be easily achieved. The applicant’s development concept as reflected in Document 4 in staff’s view, with the required street orientation for uses for the perimeter buildings, will allow for achieving this more intense development.

With respect to the applicant’s current low profile proposal, and especially the one storey street edge buildings proposed, while staff would prefer that all street edge buildings have a minimum height of two stories, staff are prepared to accept the proposed one storey elements provided the buildings have an effective height that would be associated with a two storey building. This will ensure that the urban design objectives associated with having multiple storey buildings so as to contain the street and to support the evolution of the street from one that has been designed as a traffic artery to a more urban street that is enclosed by buildings of appropriate height to make the street a more humane environment for pedestrians and diminish its automobile oriented design will be achieved. Staff are satisfied that the current development program will provide for the basic framework to achieve this.


One can almost hear the writer saying to the developer "you should have submitted something with more height!"

Proof Sheet
Sep 15, 2009, 12:15 PM
Also some interesting commentary in the section 'Assessment of Development Proposal'.

One can almost hear the writer saying to the developer "you should have submitted something with more height!"

This happens quite often in that planning staff believe in higher densities tighter setbacks etc, and the councillors and local residents wanting something less dense and further back etc. The fun begins in the balancing act to enable the developer to build something that will work for them and also avoid the sometimes inevitable OMB hearing.

I can foresee Chiarelli rounding up the locals on this one trying to fight this.

drawarc
Sep 15, 2009, 8:13 PM
OBJ article:
News Story
SmartCentres proposes retail, office space for old Laurentian High School

By Peter Kovessy, Ottawa Business Journal Staff
Tue, Sep 15, 2009 12:00 PM EST

A major Canadian retail developer is asking the city to rezone the site of a former Nepean school so it can build roughly 301,600 square feet of retail and office space, according to a city report.

By comparison, that is more than twice the size of the retail development anchored by Canadian Tire at Carling Avenue and the Queensway.

The first phase of SmartCentres' development of the former Laurentian High School, located at the northwest intersection of Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, near Merivale Road, would be a single standalone 99,028-square-foot retail store in the northeast corner of the 15.37-acre site.

The remainder of the property would be framed by buildings one to three storeys in height along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue, with the upper floors featuring approximately 82,020 square feet of office space. The site would contain 219,600 square feet of total retail space, according to the report being tabled at next Tuesday's planning and environment committee meeting.

Outside the downtown core, the area features one of the city's tightest retail space markets.

At mid-year, there was a paltry 2.5 per cent retail vacancy rate along the Merivale corridor in Nepean, according to commercial real estate services firm Cushman & Wakefield LePage.

SmartCentres purchased the property from the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board for $21.26 million in 2005.

Planning documents drafted by Lloyd Phillips & Associates Ltd. for SmartCentres a year ago say residential developers were contacted about the property. However, their response was either disinterest or an insistence on an unacceptable business arrangement due to highly differing land values, according to SmartCentres, which says it wants to eventually include residential uses for the site, but will focus on retail, service, and office uses in the short term.

waterloowarrior
Sep 22, 2009, 7:23 PM
Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Lincoln+Fields+risk+Laurentian+site+redeveloped+mall+says/2020453/story.html
By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenSeptember 22, 2009 2:11 PM
Be the first to post a comment (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:jumpToAnchor%28%27#PostComment%27%29)

OTTAWA — A lawyer representing the owner of the Lincoln Fields Shopping Centre says the centre could go out of business if the city approves construction of a big-box development on Baseline Road.


Kristi Ross, a lawyer for RioCan, the commercial real estate company, told city council’s planning and environment committee Tuesday that if SmartCentres lures Wal-Mart from Lincoln Fields, the mall could go into decline and possibly close.


She said it would be the kind of urban blight seen in the United States when dramatic economic shifts happen in cities.


A 116,645-square-foot Wal-Mart operates in Lincoln Fields, accounting for about 40 per cent of the shopping centre’s space.


Ross was seeking a refusal or a delay in the zoning approval for the SmartCentres development on the former Laurentian High School site, where a large store of almost 150,000 square feet is proposed. As well, the developer wants to build smaller retail and office buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue.


Lincoln Fields is about five kilometres from the Laurentian development, which has also generated opposition from nearby Copeland Park residents who are worried about traffic implications of the project.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Proof Sheet
Sep 22, 2009, 8:01 PM
Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says



http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/ottawa/Lincoln+Fields+risk+Laurentian+site+redeveloped+mall+says/2020453/story.html
By Patrick Dare, The Ottawa CitizenSeptember 22, 2009 2:11 PM
Be the first to post a comment (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:jumpToAnchor%28%27#PostComment%27%29)

OTTAWA — A lawyer representing the owner of the Lincoln Fields Shopping Centre says the centre could go out of business if the city approves construction of a big-box development on Baseline Road.


Kristi Ross, a lawyer for RioCan, the commercial real estate company, told city council’s planning and environment committee Tuesday that if SmartCentres lures Wal-Mart from Lincoln Fields, the mall could go into decline and possibly close.


She said it would be the kind of urban blight seen in the United States when dramatic economic shifts happen in cities.


A 116,645-square-foot Wal-Mart operates in Lincoln Fields, accounting for about 40 per cent of the shopping centre’s space.


Ross was seeking a refusal or a delay in the zoning approval for the SmartCentres development on the former Laurentian High School site, where a large store of almost 150,000 square feet is proposed. As well, the developer wants to build smaller retail and office buildings along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue.


Lincoln Fields is about five kilometres from the Laurentian development, which has also generated opposition from nearby Copeland Park residents who are worried about traffic implications of the project.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

I'm sorry but this presentation (I didn't see it or hear but have just read about it here) smacks of protectionism....face it Lincoln Fields...if you can't compete in today's marketplace with your collection of stores, it is time to reinvent yourself.

How did this presentation come across with Council...could they see right through it or did they give it some weight.

bradnixon
Sep 22, 2009, 8:06 PM
Lincoln Fields at risk if Laurentian H.S. site redeveloped, mall's rep says


Frankly I'm not sure that's such a bad thing.... Lincoln Fields is a prime location that has been headed downhill as a mall for a long time.... maybe this would be the incentive to finally re-develop this land.

Dado
Sep 22, 2009, 9:29 PM
I wonder if representatives from Lincoln Heights (I thought it was "Lincoln Heights Galleria", "Fields" being the station) showed up to oppose the latest expansion plans at Bayshore or those of Ikea at Iris? This to me sounds like "reaching". I remain to be convinced that Wal-Mart would even move from that location given that they cannot rely on everyone who goes there now to go to a store at the Laurentian site; I would have thought that a store at Laurentian would be a new one.


But leaving that aside, if the management at Lincoln Heights is so concerned about their future then perhaps they should look around and try to capitalize on being next to a major rapid transit station as well as in an area of reasonably high density. They can start by making it easier to get to the station by doing something about that chain link fence on the east side of the property, and perhaps enter into discussions with the City to get a pedestrian walkway put in. The part of the property nearest the station, which is a steeply sloped parking lot that is not too often used (complete with warnings about parking there if you're not a customer), is just crying out for something like an office building to be built on it. Failing that, try putting in a condo tower - there have got to be people willing to buy condos in a tower overlooking greenspace next to a shopping centre with a grocery store and next to future LRT station to downtown.

waterloowarrior
Sep 22, 2009, 10:48 PM
I'm sorry but this presentation (I didn't see it or hear but have just read about it here) smacks of protectionism....face it Lincoln Fields...if you can't compete in today's marketplace with your collection of stores, it is time to reinvent yourself.

How did this presentation come across with Council...could they see right through it or did they give it some weight.

Yeah Ottawa ditched market studies with the new (03) OP, so I don't think they can really do anything about it.

No headphones so I missed the presentation.



Here's the disposition from todays Committee meeting

2. ZONING - 1357 BASELINE ROAD
ZONAGE - 1357, CHEMIN BASELINE
ACS2009-ICS-PGM-0131 river/rivière (16)


(This application is subject to Bill 51)

That the Planning and Environment Committee recommend Council approve an amendment to the Zoning By-law 2008-250 to change the zoning of 1357 Baseline Road from I1A – Minor Institutional Subzone A to AM[***] Sch [***] – h – Arterial Mainstreet Special Exception Holding Zone as detailed in Document 2; as amended as follows:

1. Revised Point 18 to read:

A maximum of 750 surface parking spaces may be provided for the entire site; the parking spaces may be installed as the development proceeds in phases; the parking spaces may not be located in the required or provided front or side yards abutting a street, or more particularly in the setback of said yards which setback may not exceed 7.0 metres.

2. Revised Point 2 to read:

Where a single large format store is located in the east portion of the site as part of the first phase of development, that at least two of the six buildings shown on the concept plan (included as Document 4) shall be constructed also as part of the first phase along Baseline and Clyde, with at least one building located at the corner of Baseline and Clyde. And, that these buildings be completed for occupancy within three years of the commencement of construction of the large format store.

3. Additions to Point 20 to read:

k. Prior to any site plan being approved, that a full community meeting be held, involving the applicant, Copeland Park Community, City View Community, Central Park Community, City planning staff and the Ward Councillors representing these communities.

l. The Owner(s) not object to the formation of a Business Improvement Area for the Merivale commercial corridor that would include the Owner(s) lands.

m. The Owner(s) agree through the site plan agreement to participate in future Community Design Plan Study for the Baseline/Clyde/Merivale triangle.

4. That pursuant to the Planning Act, subsection 34(17) no further notice be given.

CARRIED as amended

bradnixon
Sep 23, 2009, 12:42 AM
I wonder if representatives from Lincoln Heights (I thought it was "Lincoln Heights Galleria", "Fields" being the station) showed up to oppose the latest expansion plans at Bayshore or those of Ikea at Iris? This to me sounds like "reaching". I remain to be convinced that Wal-Mart would even move from that location given that they cannot rely on everyone who goes there now to go to a store at the Laurentian site; I would have thought that a store at Laurentian would be a new one.


But leaving that aside, if the management at Lincoln Heights is so concerned about their future then perhaps they should look around and try to capitalize on being next to a major rapid transit station as well as in an area of reasonably high density. They can start by making it easier to get to the station by doing something about that chain link fence on the east side of the property, and perhaps enter into discussions with the City to get a pedestrian walkway put in. The part of the property nearest the station, which is a steeply sloped parking lot that is not too often used (complete with warnings about parking there if you're not a customer), is just crying out for something like an office building to be built on it. Failing that, try putting in a condo tower - there have got to be people willing to buy condos in a tower overlooking greenspace next to a shopping centre with a grocery store and next to future LRT station to downtown.

The name of the mall changed a few years ago so it is now the same as the station.... my understanding is that the owners of the mall refused to participate in any pedestrian to the station back when it was built in 1983, so the inconvenient connection to transit is their own fault.

But like I said- it is prime real estate that is horribly underutilized right now... if Wal-Mart does move out I'm sure the mall owners will still make a profit selling the land off for residential and office development.

waterloowarrior
Sep 23, 2009, 3:55 AM
Panel OKs ‘ugly as sin’ Baseline site proposal
  
BY PATRICK DARE, THE OTTAWA CITIZENSEPTEMBER 22, 2009 11:11 PM
 
OTTAWA-A large commercial development on Baseline Road won the reluctant approval of the planning committee Tuesday after the chairman lamented the fact that Ottawa can’t compel developers to build true mixed-use projects.

SmartCentres will build a big-box store on the 15-acre site of the former Laurentian High School along Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue

The development, which will also include smaller stores and office buildings, will be worth at least $60 million.

The project will see 217,000 square feet of retail space, 98,000 square feet of offices and up to 750 parking spaces in a large lot behind buildings along Baseline and Clyde.

Copeland Park residents said the Baseline-Clyde intersection is already choked with cars and a big-box store would only make things worse.

One planning committee member said the site was an important one for the city and its policies of intensification — building more on less land — and building neighbourhoods with a mix of stores, residences and offices.

“This is a total waste of this land — total asphalt,” said Councillor Diane Holmes. “It’s going to be as ugly as sin.”

But the project enjoyed support from city staff, other councillors and some community members who said it was far better than what was originally proposed when SmartCentres bought the land from the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board for

$21 million.

Liz Allan, president of the Central Park Community Association, said pedestrian access had been improved and “traffic issues are part of living in a large urban centre.”

City planner John Smit said the development fits well into the official plan and Baseline Road’s role as a main street in that plan.

While the nearby intersection will be modified as part of the development, the long-term answer to the congestion problem is planned bus lanes along Baseline and a transit station nearby.

Dennis Eberhard, vice-president of development for SmartCentres, said he expects the neighbours to become customers and employees of the stores and offices that are built.

“This is an inner-city site. There’s going to be more traffic,” said Eberhard.

Peter Hume, chairman of the planning committee, supported the project, said he wished the city had the legal power to place conditional zoning on properties so that projects would have to include housing elements.

Hume said other cities are getting developments with condo apartments above or next to large stores, but Ottawa is missing out on this livelier form of development. In this case, there’s a chance for a residential tower in the future, but that element is not assured.

Hume also said that planning authorities should also have the power to require minimum standards for architecture to improve the appearance of the city.

Councillor Clive Doucet called the Baseline project a backward step and left the committee room to avoid voting on the issue altogether.

One of the objectors to the project was a lawyer for a competing shopping centre, Lincoln Fields, who argued that such a development could doom her clients if

Walmart were to move to the SmartCentres site.

However, after lunch, lawyer Kristi Ross withdrew the objection of RioCan, which owns Lincoln Fields. Ross said RioCan and Walmart have worked out a deal so that Walmart will remain a tenant for several years.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
 
 http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Panel+ugly+Baseline+site+proposal/2021648/story.html
 

harls
Sep 23, 2009, 11:46 AM
However, after lunch, lawyer Kristi Ross withdrew the objection of RioCan, which owns Lincoln Fields. Ross said RioCan and Walmart have worked out a deal so that Walmart will remain a tenant for several years.

The deal between Wal-Mart and RioCan must have been impossible to refuse. The Laurentian site positively screams "Wal-Mart".

wingman
Sep 23, 2009, 12:29 PM
The deal between Wal-Mart and RioCan must have been impossible to refuse. The Laurentian site positively screams "Wal-Mart".

Who is to say they will not build a Wal-Mart Superstore at the Laurentian location?

With all the apartments in the LF area, and no Wal-Mart currently in the Merivalle area I have no doubt they would both succeed. I do agree though that if Wal-Mart leaves LF, that place is done.

I also agree with the notion of a mixed development there, kinda like the Dix-30 development on the south shore of Montreal (Brossard I think).

harls
Sep 23, 2009, 2:42 PM
^ that's true, I guess they could build another Wal-Mart there - kind of like how they did in Gatineau with the SmartCentre location and not-so-far away Maloney store. Both seem to be doing well.

wingman
Sep 23, 2009, 6:03 PM
Exactement!

Now I am not saying I want another Wal-Mart in Ottawa, I'm just saying it could happen ;)

RTWAP
Oct 5, 2009, 8:24 PM
I hope Lincoln Fields fails as a mall. It really needs to be redeveloped. It's a large property, well served by transit and roads. There should be lots of interesting options available.

I agree with Councilor Hume. It's too bad the city can't approve conditional zoning, require residential development, and enforce architectural standards.

waterloowarrior
Oct 5, 2009, 8:43 PM
I agree with Councilor Hume. It's too bad the city can't approve conditional zoning, require residential development, and enforce architectural standards.

My understanding is that under Bill 51 (planning act reforms) they can do all three of those things, at least to some extent :) Once the new Official Plan comes into effect, the city planners will have some new tools for design, which you can see in section 5.2.1 (8) http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/planning/op/ann_opa5_en.pdf

waterloowarrior
Oct 14, 2009, 3:14 PM
It's at Council right now... Maria McRae sounds like she's questioning John Smit as her expert planning witness at the OMB :)

Proof Sheet
Oct 14, 2009, 3:41 PM
It's at Council right now... Maria McRae sounds like she's questioning John Smit as her expert planning witness at the OMB :)

I just checked and he is still answering questions. John Smit would be an excellent witness for the City....he is quite unflappable.

waterloowarrior
Oct 14, 2009, 4:29 PM
After much ranting the application has been approved

waterloowarrior
Nov 18, 2009, 6:09 PM
site plan application (http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7TLHQ9) for a 147,171 square foot large format retail store and two buildings fronting Baseline (Buildings E and F in front of the big box store). These guys move quickly (quickly being a relative term in land development ;) ) .

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2768/4115531726_5f2e87659b_o.jpg (http://webcast.ottawa.ca/plan/All_Image%20Referencing_Site%20Plan%20Application_Image%20Reference_Site_Plan_SA001_D07-12-09-0193.PDF)

waterloowarrior
Dec 1, 2009, 8:34 AM
$3.4 million brownfields grant.. effective redevelopment tool or taxpayer subsidisation of a multi-national big box retailer? ;)
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/csedc/2009/12-01/15-FINAL-ACS2009-ICS-CSS-0004-brownfields%20Rehab%20Grant-Clydesdale%20Shopping%20Ctre.htm

waterloowarrior
Dec 1, 2009, 8:32 PM
EMC article on the site plan
http://www.emcbarrhaven.ca/20091127/news/SmartCentres+files+site+plan+for+Laurentian

waterloowarrior
Dec 3, 2009, 1:27 AM
City asks for comments on Smart Centres site plan
Zoning conditions not met: Chiarelli
December 02, 2009
BY MARGARET SAMBOL
http://www.yourbarrhaven.com/article/19233


The site plan proposals for the Smart Centres shopping plaza on the former Laurentian High School site at 1357 Baseline Rd. is not up to snuff, according to College Coun. Rick Chiarelli.
“If they had set out to design a cynical site plan, I can’t think of anything they would have done differently,” Chiarelli says. “It looks like that 70s big box store in the middle of sea of concrete, than it does the elegant, main-street that they showed us at the committee meeting.”

Council put conditions on the site plan, when it approved the zoning change for the site, which Chiarelli says have not been met in this plan.

The site is located in River Coun. Maria McRae’s ward. Nepean-Barrhaven This Week was not able to arrange an interview with McRae before our press deadline.

Chiarelli says he will be meeting with community associations to develop a strategy on how to move forward. He says it may not be necessary to organize meetings as the deficiencies in the plan are “painfully obvious.”

“The landscaping is missing,” Chiarelli says. “The peripheral buildings are missing. The store appears bigger than in the diagram shown to us during zoning (committee). The site is essentially a bigger store than promised and the rest is parking lot.”

Smart Centres, the company that is developing the plaza, has applied for $3.5 million in brownfields funding from the City to clean up oil spilled from the school.

“Considering the amount of money that Smart Centres is getting from the City to clean up the contamination, it’s disgraceful if they show this much disregard for the overall plan,” Chiarelli says.

Chiarelli says he has been in touch with City staff to ensure that the brownfields funding is not released until the site plan conditions have been met.

Calls to Smart Centres were also not returned by NBTW’s press deadline.

The proposal for the first phase of the development is for a one-storey 13,637 square-metre retail store on the northeast corner of the property. Two one-storey buildings – 985 square metres and 945 square metres – are planned for the south side of the property along Baseline Road.

The City is accepting comments on the site plan proposal until Dec. 9. Comments can be sent to Simon Deiaco at 613-580-2424, ext. 15641 or simon.deiaco@ottawa.ca.

Proof Sheet
Dec 3, 2009, 1:30 AM
Hmm.....whose ward is this property in. Personally, I wouldn't trust the Councillor who is quoted as far as I can throw him.

RTWAP
Dec 3, 2009, 11:24 AM
Hmm.....whose ward is this property in. Personally, I wouldn't trust the Councillor who is quoted as far as I can throw him.

It appears the developer is building the big box and the absolute minimum of the rest. They're building the two single story buildings that do almost nothing to create a street presence on Baseline.

If you look at the pictures in waterloowarrior's post (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4061465&postcount=16) you'll notice that they're doing a bit of bait and switch. It's obvious that the pictures focus on the attractive buildings in the foreground and de-emphasize the uglier ones behind.

But they're not building the attractive ones. They may at some point in the future. Riiiight.

DEVPLAN
Dec 3, 2009, 3:02 PM
“The landscaping is missing,” Chiarelli says. “The peripheral buildings are missing. The store appears bigger than in the diagram shown to us during zoning (committee). The site is essentially a bigger store than promised and the rest is parking lot.”


It is my understanding after looking at the zoning by-law for the property that 1 large format store with a maximum area of 150,000 sf (13,935 SM) is permitted. Looks like the applicant is showing a store less than 150,000 sf.

I agree with "Proof Sheet", I wouldn't trust what Chiarelli says either.

With regards to street presence, the City included a clause in the zoning by-law which requires the developer to have access to the retail from the street. Not much pedestrian traffic along that section of baseline as it is but hopefully the development will stimulate some.

Gotta give the City credit for trying to go above an beyond the typical Arterial Mainstreet Zoning requirements which are pretty general.

waterloowarrior
Dec 9, 2009, 6:24 PM
http://www.yournepean.com/NepeanThisWeek/article/19411

Laurentian site brownfields funding deferred
Community meeting on site plan will wait until New Year
December 09, 2009
BY Margaret Sambol

A request for brownfields funding to clean up an oil spill on the former Laurentian high school site at Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue has been deferred until February. Last week, the City’s corporate services and economic development committee deferred the funding request until City staff have a chance to review the brownfields policy.

“They won’t get brownfields reimbursement until the site plan is approved,” says River Coun. Maria McRae, who represents the area including the shopping centre to be located at 1357 Baseline Rd.

“I don’t have an initial reaction yet,” she says about the site plan. “It’s very early in the process.”

Council put conditions on the site plan, when it approved the zoning change for the site and McRae says it will take some time for her to review the plan with City staff to see if it meets those conditions.

However, she did say the site plan submitted to the City in “no way will be the final site plan.”

She says the plan is missing some of the things shown on the concept drawing such as the parkette near the large store.

McRae plans on holding a meeting to get public input on the site plan, which she says will have to wait until the New Year so it doesn’t conflict with residents’ holiday plans.

“I don’t want to delay the developer, but I’m not going to be pressured to move quickly if (the site plan) is not what the holding provisions called for,” McRae says. “I will be vigorous and thorough in ensuring the City lives up to the promise it made to the community with these holding conditions.”

POLICY

Currently the City deals with brownfields funding requests on a case-by-case basis.

“The policy is intended to enable properties to be developed that would not otherwise be developed,” says College Coun. Rick Chiarelli. “This is a site that would have been developed anyway.”

McRae agrees the policy needs to be reviewed.

“Any site that has environmental contaminant should be considered,” she
says.

Chiarelli says the policy should deal with properties like the Vox in Bells Corners where the cost of decontaminating the land is prohibitive and the property becomes an eyesore.

“That deal will hinge on brownfields funding,” he says.

While Chiarelli says he supports the policy review, he adds that it will not affect plans to fix the Vox.

waterloowarrior
Jan 21, 2010, 1:58 AM
INVITATION TO PUBLIC OPEN HOUSE:
You and your neighbours are invited to review the proposed Site Plan for the former Laurentian High School site located at 1375 Baseline Road. Open House details are as follows:

Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010
Time: Drop In At Your Convenience from 5:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Place: Alexander Community Centre, 960 Silver Street

http://www.laurentianredevelopment.com/

waterloowarrior
Mar 18, 2010, 4:16 PM
Smart Centres is applying to lift the holding zone on the property
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7YIAL7

Proof Sheet
Mar 18, 2010, 4:31 PM
Smart Centres is applying to lift the holding zone on the property
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7YIAL7

Thanks for the update..for once the City is ahead of itself in terms of status date:banana:

reidjr
Mar 18, 2010, 4:43 PM
Smart Centres is applying to lift the holding zone on the property
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7YIAL7

What does this mean.

waterloowarrior
Mar 18, 2010, 5:05 PM
What does this mean.

When the property was rezoned, the City included a holding zone which prohibits development until a number of conditions were met. They did this to ensure that the concept development would be implemented (i.e. they wouldn't just build the big box store and a couple of pad sites, they'd actually build something looking like their nice pictures) and that a transportation solution would be found (there are now a bunch of roadway changes proposed).

The developer is now saying that they have met the conditions and would like the City to lift the holding zone so they can proceed with the project once their site plan is approved, although it sounds like there will still be a holding zone for future redevelopment above a certain density.

reidjr
Mar 18, 2010, 5:29 PM
When the property was rezoned, the City included a holding zone which prohibits development until a number of conditions were met. They did this to ensure that the concept development would be implemented (i.e. they wouldn't just build the big box store and a couple of pad sites, they'd actually build something looking like their nice pictures) and that a transportation solution would be found (there are now a bunch of roadway changes proposed).

The developer is now saying that they have met the conditions and would like the City to lift the holding zone so they can proceed with the project, although it sounds like there will still be a holding zone for future redevelopment above a certain density.

So if i understand this right its good news and the project should move forward.

waterloowarrior
Mar 18, 2010, 5:36 PM
So if i understand this right its good news and the project should move forward.

yes, unless your name is rick chiarelli or clive doucet
Basically it's another part of the process toward getting the project built - the city put in some conditions for redeveloping the property, and the developer is now saying that they are fulfilling these conditions. Assuming that there are no political issues or big problems with the plans, the next steps are to finalize the site plan, get Council to lift the holding zone, and get their building permits.

Here's a description of the lifting of the holding zone process (my guess is that the project is not delegated to staff given its high profile)
http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/planning/dev_review_process/dev_application/holding_zones_en.html

Proof Sheet
Mar 18, 2010, 9:10 PM
yes, unless your name is rick chiarelli or clive doucet

Good one, Waterloo Warrior:banana: Those two councillors don't like to let go of anything and will find any kind of filibuster tactics to prolong development, in their ward or somebody else's.

reidjr
May 11, 2010, 7:25 PM
Does anyone have a update on this project.

O-Town Hockey
May 12, 2010, 12:14 AM
Does anyone have a update on this project.

The only thing I know is that there's gonna be a Super Walmart there. As a result, I will never, ever visit this area again and would not even considering buying real estate in the surrounding neighbourhood. The traffic around Baseline/Clyde/Merivale is already terrible on the weekends and this is basically going to double it.

reidjr
May 12, 2010, 2:01 PM
The only thing I know is that there's gonna be a Super Walmart there. As a result, I will never, ever visit this area again and would not even considering buying real estate in the surrounding neighbourhood. The traffic around Baseline/Clyde/Merivale is already terrible on the weekends and this is basically going to double it.

I hope its not a walmart super centre.

DEVPLAN
May 12, 2010, 2:52 PM
The only thing I know is that there's gonna be a Super Walmart there. As a result, I will never, ever visit this area again and would not even considering buying real estate in the surrounding neighbourhood. The traffic around Baseline/Clyde/Merivale is already terrible on the weekends and this is basically going to double it.

It is my understanding that approximately $1.8 million in road works at the the intersection of Clyde and Baseline will begin later this year in order to fix the exisiting problems and increase capacity for the new development. Although the level of service will not get any worse I don't believe the intersection will ever have the same level of service it did when the community was considered a suburb. This development is only the tip of the iceburg. Wait until the triangle lands across the street are developed. Intensification was the vision of the Council that approved the current OP. But yet they continue to fight intensifacation all over the City.

bradnixon
May 12, 2010, 3:23 PM
Traffic is a fact of life in the city... that's just the way it is. The only way going forward to increase capacity for moving people on the road network is through transit. That's why Baseline is planned to have a dedicated transitway running down the middle of it.

waterloowarrior
May 12, 2010, 3:28 PM
Site plan application page on city's website says a draft report has been sent to the applicant and councillor. So if all is well and the site plan is approved the next big stage should be getting the building permit. However there may be things they have to do first like the roadworks devplan mentioned and demolition/environtmental cleanup (haven't been by there recently, not sure if it's still up)

eternallyme
May 14, 2010, 3:29 AM
Traffic is a fact of life in the city... that's just the way it is. The only way going forward to increase capacity for moving people on the road network is through transit. That's why Baseline is planned to have a dedicated transitway running down the middle of it.

Down the middle? I though it was bus-only curb lanes and limited stops. (I agree, a rapid bus on the Baseline corridor should be implemented now)

Dado
May 14, 2010, 1:30 PM
Down the middle? I though it was bus-only curb lanes and limited stops. (I agree, a rapid bus on the Baseline corridor should be implemented now)

The 2003 TMP (or ORTEP) did call for a median busway on Baseline. Whether that's still the case now, who knows, but exclusive curb lanes are certainly cheaper to implement if you're just taking existing lanes out of general use.

barrist
May 16, 2010, 1:14 PM
The only thing I know is that there's gonna be a Super Walmart there. As a result, I will never, ever visit this area again and would not even considering buying real estate in the surrounding neighbourhood. The traffic around Baseline/Clyde/Merivale is already terrible on the weekends and this is basically going to double it.



Whats your source on this may i ask? i didn't know they announced anything yet.

O-Town Hockey
May 16, 2010, 10:36 PM
Whats your source on this may i ask? i didn't know they announced anything yet.

Maybe it's not true, but I heard it from a family friend that works at Walmart. They've been notified that there will be multiple manager positions opening up for the new store and have been told it will be at this site.

barrist
May 17, 2010, 6:43 PM
Brutal!

I guess it was inevitable. Smart Centres pretty much anchors all its developments with Walmarts don't they?

waterloowarrior
May 19, 2010, 12:35 AM
Here's an update on the traffic study
http://ottawa.ca/calendar/ottawa/citycouncil/pec/2010/05-25/IPD%20-%20ACS2010-ICS-PGM-0096-IPD%20-%20Origin-Destination%20Survey%20-%201357%20Baseline%20Rd.htm

Lakche
May 19, 2010, 1:11 PM
I heard on the CTV Ottawa news last night at 11 that a Wal-Mart is definitely opening at this location.

I can't seem to find an article on CTV's website to back it up though...

lrt's friend
May 19, 2010, 1:54 PM
The 2003 TMP (or ORTEP) did call for a median busway on Baseline. Whether that's still the case now, who knows, but exclusive curb lanes are certainly cheaper to implement if you're just taking existing lanes out of general use.

Weren't curb bus lanes in the proposal for this site? This then poses another question. Is this a temporary measure until the Baseline Transitway is actually built? Obviously, you can't build a centre road Transitway for 1 block and then expect the buses to remerge into traffic and move over to the right lane. There would be no advantage to doing this.

The comments about centre road Transitways starts making me think that this is also a temporary measure and that one day they have LRT in mind where a centre road allignment makes perfect sense. Why is it that Ottawa seems to have adopted this policy of always building Transitways first and then at great expense and disruption, convert them to LRT?

barrist
May 19, 2010, 4:02 PM
http://ottawa.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100519/OTT_WalMart_100519/20100519/?hub=OttawaHome


Wal-Mart goes green at new location in west end

odd how it doesn't explain how it's going to be "green"???

waterloowarrior
May 19, 2010, 4:18 PM
wrong thread

RTWAP
May 19, 2010, 4:44 PM
I heard on the CTV Ottawa news last night at 11 that a Wal-Mart is definitely opening at this location.

I can't seem to find an article on CTV's website to back it up though...

Also, there are large signs up at the site announcing a new Walmart will be opening there in January 2011.

Dado
May 20, 2010, 2:16 AM
Weren't curb bus lanes in the proposal for this site?

It would certainly appear so from the drawings:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2768/4115531726_5f2e87659b_o.jpg

I would note that the bus lane depicted here is an additional lane; currently there are only two through general traffic lanes. It looks like they'll be taking the right turn lane and making a bus lane out of it by extending it eastwards some unknown distance, and then adding a replacement right turn lane to the north against the property. That fact changes the economics a bit since it's not just a matter of "stealing" a general traffic lane - they're having to move curbs and sidewalks and all the rest.

Just what pedestrians trying to cross Baseline need: another lane (or two, depending on what happens on the other side) to cross without any additional refuge.


This then poses another question. Is this a temporary measure until the Baseline Transitway is actually built? Obviously, you can't build a centre road Transitway for 1 block and then expect the buses to remerge into traffic and move over to the right lane. There would be no advantage to doing this.

Without knowing what the ultimate plan is for Baseline (median busway or curb bus lanes) I can't answer the temporary measure question, but it does seem at least somewhat odd to add a lane as a temporary measure... which makes me think that the bus lanes are the final plan for BRT in this corridor.

Median busways are a bit difficult to phase in; they either get done all in one shot or at least in increments between places where the buses all leave the busway (e.g. at Baseline Station).


The comments about centre road Transitways starts making me think that this is also a temporary measure and that one day they have LRT in mind where a centre road allignment makes perfect sense. Why is it that Ottawa seems to have adopted this policy of always building Transitways first and then at great expense and disruption, convert them to LRT?

If my guess on the curb bus lanes being the final BRT configuration is correct, then a future LRT in the median - which isn't in the TMP, btw - would entail a complete reconstruction of the entire street in addition to the partial reconstruction for curb bus lanes. In all likelihood the median 'transitway' (technically not a correct term since a transitway is supposed to be grade-separated) would be a rails-in-concrete arrangement to allow both rail and buses (and emergency vehicles) to use it.

waterloowarrior
May 28, 2010, 7:41 PM
Work begins on Laurentian Place development
Posted May 25, 2010
BY PHIL AMBROZIAK
http://www.emcbarrhaven.ca/20100520/news/Work+begins+on+Laurentian+Place+development



EMC News – The first step toward improving the future of the Clyde, Baseline and Merivale “triangle” was officially taken May 19.

On that day, city councillors and staff, property owners, members of the local community and other interested parties attended a sod-turning ceremony to mark the beginning of phase one of the Laurentian Place development, located at the former site of Laurentian High School.

“Laurentian High School was built on this site in 1957 and obviously was very instrumental in shaping the development of the community in the early 1960s,” stated Dennis Eberhard, SmartCentres’ vice-president of development.

The first phase of the project includes the development of a large format retail store and two multi-tenant buildings fronting onto Baseline Rd., a pedestrian pathway connection and three access points to the site. Access points consist of a fully signalized, full movement intersection onto Baseline Rd., a right-in only access from Baseline Rd. and a right-in and right-out only access from Clyde Ave. Prior to the ceremony, it was confirmed by

SmartCentres that Wal-Mart Canada would be their tenant in the single large form store planned for the property.

Richard Eade
May 28, 2010, 10:24 PM
My understanding is that the buses will be running in the outside curb lanes. The outside lanes of Heron Road will be re-purposed from general traffic lanes to Bus-only lanes between Data Centre Road (Bronson on the south side) and Prince of Wales Drive. This is in the works now, I believe.

Baseline, between Prince of Wales and Navaho, will get new lanes added but I don't know the timing of those.

As for the short segment of Bus-only lanes shown in the site plan, I would guess that it is only across the front of that property. The Google Earth view of the area still shows the Laurentian High School (LHS) http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=45.362832,-75.737805&spn=0.002246,0.009602&z=17 and in that view, there is a widening of Baseline for a right turn onto the property. That turn lane starts at the eastern edge of the LHS property. So we will likely pick up about 630 metres of Bus-only lane along the north side of Baseline from the Scout Shoppe almost to Henry Farm Drive.

Recall that they added a short length of Bus-only lane along the north side of Baseline where the bus turns west from the new intersection at Constellation. I have the feeling that the Bus-only lanes along Baseline will be built piece-meal until, like the Transitway, it is missing only a few crucial segments.:P

Of course, it is possible that since Baseline was scheduled for a re-build (delayed because of this construction) that they will take this opportunity to move back the north side curb to stretch the lane all the way to Merivale; but wouldn't they need to do an EA to make such a large change as adding a lane?

Dado
May 29, 2010, 1:20 AM
Widening an existing road to add a lane for transit (bus or rail) is a Schedule C activity under the Municipal Class EA (i.e. the same as for a new transitway).

However, "localised operational improvements at specific locations", including "stopping lanes, access lanes, turning lanes, signal priority, queue jump lanes", amongst others, is a pre-approved Schedule A+ activity ('A+' signifying you have to tell everyone about it), so long as it is has no or minimal adverse environmental effects, at which point it would be a Schedule B activity.

So they can probably do what they need to do at Laurentian on the north side of Baseline from the Scouts Shop to beyond Clyde by way of the above. However, it looks like the bus lane extends east of the Scouts, possibly to the former IBM buildings at Merivale opposite Loblaws. They can use the same excuse as above to get from Merivale to Loblaws where there's a long right turn lane into the former IBM/current FedGov buildings - leaving them only the segment in front of the Scouts' buildings to have to come up with an 'A+' rationale for. Since it looks like they're going to consolidate the entrance to the Scouts and the Walmart into one (and remove the signalized pedestrian crossing in front of the former high school), they may just have enough of a rationale to get away with it.

One thing that gets me is what happens to the bus stops... since it looks like there will be separate right-turn lanes for much of the length of the project.

And of course the trees will most likely get the chop, be it directly or indirectly from having their roots cut up.


Btw, the City's list of required infrastructure projects in furtherance of the TMP includes the addition of bus lanes on Baseline from Richmond Road all the way to Heron and beyond to Walkley Rd:

http://ottawa.ca/city_hall/master_plans/tmp/annexes/annex_b_en.html#P295_13950

Those still require EAs to be done.

RTWAP
May 29, 2010, 5:03 AM
Recall that they added a short length of Bus-only lane along the north side of Baseline where the bus turns west from the new intersection at Constellation.

They have also converted the outside WB lane between the two ends of Centrepointe to bus-only. And they have removed the gravel fill and precast curbs that eliminated the curb-side lane immediately west of Woodroffe.

My guess is that they're planning to start the bus-only lane just east of Woodroffe as an interim measure.

/bitching on

But they certainly don't seem to know what they're doing. They widened the medians when they created the intersection at Constellation, forcing the two through lanes to jog all over the place. It was a nightmare in winter when people unfamiliar with the hidden lane markings are inadvertently wandering back and forth between lanes.

Further evidence of incompetence would be the fact they erased and repainted the new lane markings in a different configuration about a month after they opened the Constellation intersection.

That whole project seems really dismal. The sewers grates on Constellation are too high, so they removed the asphalt around them in preparation for fixing them, and then used pylons to create 5 foot wide barriers at each cover. They kept the on-street parking though (perhaps the project team works out of city building nearby) so for over a month the road was a jumbled nightmare that was really only one lane wide, but lacked any signs. Just this week they banned all stopping along the east side of Constellation so you can drive northbound without occupying the only southbound lane.

/bitching off

Richard Eade
May 29, 2010, 1:52 PM
At the risk of drawing this thread away from Laurentian; the temporary curbs west of Woodroffe are being removed now and permanent changes are being made to install the 'SMART CHANNEL' (or high angle channelized right turn lane) between south-bound Woodroffe and west-bound Baseline. [I'm in favour of starting a new thread on the ridiculousness of these so-called 'SMART CHANNELS', if anyone else is interested.]

I don't think there is any need to have a bus lane between Woodroffe and Constellation since there are no buses running along Baseline between Navaho and Constellation.

As for Constellation, it had only been sealed last fall, and needed another layer of asphalt, which is being added now. Soon all will be beautiful on Constellation. The rest of the design, as you point out, indicates unfathomable thinking on the part of City Staff.:koko:

Dado
May 29, 2010, 2:54 PM
At the risk of drawing this thread away from Laurentian; the temporary curbs west of Woodroffe are being removed now and permanent changes are being made to install the 'SMART CHANNEL' (or high angle channelized right turn lane) between south-bound Woodroffe and west-bound Baseline. [I'm in favour of starting a new thread on the ridiculousness of these so-called 'SMART CHANNELS', if anyone else is interested.]

Done, more-or-less:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=182104


I don't think there is any need to have a bus lane between Woodroffe and Constellation since there are no buses running along Baseline between Navaho and Constellation.

As for Constellation, it had only been sealed last fall, and needed another layer of asphalt, which is being added now. Soon all will be beautiful on Constellation. The rest of the design, as you point out, indicates unfathomable thinking on the part of City Staff.:koko:

blackjagger
Nov 11, 2010, 6:37 PM
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__77MR33

I believe this is an office proposal for the North West corner of the site.

Cheers,
Josh

kevinbottawa
Nov 11, 2010, 9:37 PM
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__77MR33

I believe this is an office proposal for the North West corner of the site.

Cheers,
Josh

That seems like a big change from the original site plan if I'm picturing it right. It seems this is what they're proposing:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/EeG4BsqeyJ8OdfYl75fEfmHC4SW7LIjEzQmvhBKyLsY?feat=directlink

Ottawan
Nov 12, 2010, 12:17 AM
:previous:

I think you're right, and I don't like the change at all. Defining the street by fronting the buildings onto it and creating a uniform setback should be essential to this type of redevelopment, and they shouldn't be allowed to deviate from that plan.

DEVPLAN
Nov 18, 2010, 9:08 PM
After viewing the elevations it looks like the main entrance to the office building is from Clyde Ave which the zoning by-law requires.

Yes we all know people of Ottawa don't like change but if a deviation from the original concept plan still meets the intent of the site specific zoning then why not? I think the original site plan application was just for the three entrances, Wal-Mart and the two buildings in front.

Looks like Loblaws is renovating their store across the street to try and give Wal-Mart a run for their money.

reidjr
Nov 23, 2010, 3:03 PM
Does anyone know will the walmart be a super centre?

Luker
Nov 23, 2010, 5:51 PM
You'd have to think so by the size of the development and that is their new trend. I dont have numbers or confirmation though.

waterloowarrior
Feb 5, 2011, 1:28 PM
Walmart opened on Jan 28th..

waterloowarrior
Apr 19, 2012, 12:13 AM
At Laurentian Place, baby steps towards pedestrian-friendliness
BY DAVID REEVELY, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN APRIL 16, 2012

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/6468828.bin

OTTAWA — Part of the former Laurentian High School on the northeast corner of Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue is still a construction zone with trailers and piles of gravel. Part of it is a Walmart that’s open for business. And part of it is an experiment: two buildings with 10 stores between them that are supposed to work both as strip-mall plazas with plenty of parking, and as storefronts attracting pedestrian traffic on a busy road.

Laurentian Place, as it’s now called, is a model for what the city calls an “arterial main street.” Is it a success? Sort of.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/Laurentian+Place+baby+steps+towards+pedestrian+friendliness/6468827/story.html#ixzz1sRKDBQo0

eternallyme
Apr 19, 2012, 12:17 AM
At Laurentian Place, baby steps towards pedestrian-friendliness
BY DAVID REEVELY, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN APRIL 16, 2012

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/6468828.bin

OTTAWA — Part of the former Laurentian High School on the northeast corner of Baseline Road and Clyde Avenue is still a construction zone with trailers and piles of gravel. Part of it is a Walmart that’s open for business. And part of it is an experiment: two buildings with 10 stores between them that are supposed to work both as strip-mall plazas with plenty of parking, and as storefronts attracting pedestrian traffic on a busy road.

Laurentian Place, as it’s now called, is a model for what the city calls an “arterial main street.” Is it a success? Sort of.

Read more: http://www.ottawacitizen.com/homes/Laurentian+Place+baby+steps+towards+pedestrian+friendliness/6468827/story.html#ixzz1sRKDBQo0

Baseline was never designed as a commercial corridor, so indeed that was experimental. Most of Baseline is medium to high-density residential with some reverse frontage.

waterloowarrior
May 2, 2012, 1:17 AM
The Office development at Baseline and Clyde has finally started to begin. This is to the immediate west of the new walmart supercentre. I drive by this area quite often and today they were putting in the base for the crane and the pit is probably 10-15m below ground. It will have a covered parkade and I believe the sign out front of the development lists the building at 6 floors, although the pictures make it seem like 5. 19000sq/ft Class A office space, LEED certified is their goal. I'm not sure if this has ever been discussed, so in case it hasn't here are some pictures I found for the development.

http://www.collierscanada.com/services/PropertyFile.ashx?src=p&lid=f0853214c2244833a1653ac097c43969&bid=4fc20f8559d74f079283240e871adbde&w=762&h=562&q=80

http://www.collierscanada.com/services/PropertyFile.ashx?src=p&lid=f0853214c2244833a1653ac097c43969&bid=1360f612f8ea4066981f6ae68c51781a&w=762&h=562&q=80

Stantec announced as the primary tenant

http://www.obj.ca/Real%20Estate/Construction/2012-05-01/article-2967374/Stantec-consolidates-in-new-Baseline-development/1

Uhuniau
May 2, 2012, 2:53 AM
Stantec announced as the primary tenant

http://www.obj.ca/Real%20Estate/Construction/2012-05-01/article-2967374/Stantec-consolidates-in-new-Baseline-development/1

But the sign says Sign.

McC
May 2, 2012, 2:54 PM
But the sign says Sign.

We've been sold a bill of goods! Pitchforks and torches!

waterloowarrior
Feb 28, 2013, 1:51 AM
here's an aerial from SmartCentre's site
http://www.smartcentres.com/sites/default/files/styles/largest/public/aerial_images/Ottawa_SW.jpg
http://www.smartcentres.com/locations/ottawa-sw

rocketphish
Feb 28, 2013, 2:14 AM
here's an aerial from SmartCentre's site
http://www.smartcentres.com/sites/default/files/styles/largest/public/aerial_images/Ottawa_SW.jpg
http://www.smartcentres.com/locations/ottawa-sw

How stunningly unimpressive.

Dado
Feb 28, 2013, 4:07 PM
This picture would be great supporting evidence for the counterargument "you're not short of land, just short of creativity".


If they had done what the Canadian Tire on Carling did, then the Walmart would extend out over the frontage buildings along Baseline and above the surface parking lot. Where the Walmart now is would then still be available for other development.

And what Canadian Tire did is not even all that creative anyway but it's still vastly more so than this.

O-Town Hockey
Feb 28, 2013, 4:09 PM
I love what Canadian Tire did. It makes so much sense in our climate and is a much better use of space than any other large-format stores in town.