[geoff's two cents]

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SURREY NORTH DELTA LEADER
Farming in a highrise?

By Kevin Diakiw - Surrey North Delta Leader

Published: September 17, 2008 4:00 PM
Updated: September 18, 2008 1:07 PM
Whalley corn or Surrey City Centre salad fixings could be household terms if a developer's dream of bringing the world's first vertical farm to this city becomes a reality.

A site has been selected in Whalley, near SFU, for a $25-million "vertical farm," a building that's the vision of several academics in the United States.

Dickson Despommier, professor of public health at Columbia University, came to Surrey on Wednesday to describe his concept of vertical farming, which is an indoor plantation up to 30 storeys high.

The farms are the only way this world can become truly sustainable, Despommier told a small group at Eaglequest at Coyote Creek Golf Course.

"You can't be sustainable without making your own food," Despommier told the group. "Eat well and help save the planet."

By reducing the required land for farming, the world's forests will return, which would be an asset to the trend toward global warming, he said.

Other benefits of vertical farming include:

• Year-round farming, as one indoor acre is equivalent to four-to-six outdoor acres (30 acres for strawberries);

• No weather-related crop failures;

• Virtual elimination of agricultural run-off by recycling black water;

• Greatly reduced incidence of many infectious diseases;

• Dramatic cut in the use of fossil fuels, as food is grown closer to users and involves less trucking.

"The proof of concept is we're already doing it, but we're only doing it on a single level (referring to traditional hothouses)," Despommier told the group.

Wednesday's group of about 25 people included architects, planners, engineers, academics and city staff.

Most were enthused with the notion and understood the importance of growing food closer to home.

However, they were also pragmatic, and some said the idea wouldn't become reality without being financially viable.

Despommier pointed to Honda and Toyota, manufacturers which took tremendous risks some time ago in developing hydrogen-powered vehicles and battery-driven cars, respectively.

Now with skyrocketing fuel costs, the car companies are way ahead of their competition.

Despommier said suitable sites would include restaurants, schools and hospitals, noting that if someone were to act today, a full-scale vertical farm could be up and running in three years.

Paul Quinn, with RE/MAX Colonial Pacific Realty, told The Leader Wednesday the developer he represents has the land available in Whalley and the will to construct the building.

Quinn told The Leader his client is known to "think outside the box" and is ready to take on the vertical farm project.

He described his client as 90 per cent ready to go, and said Despommier's timeline of 2011 is in keeping with his clients.

Politicians at Wednesdays meeting were also keen on the idea.

"Why not?" asked Coun. Marvin Hunt, chair of the city's agricultural advisory committee. He noted there is a large amount of agricultural land in this city, but said most of it's being used for blueberries.

"This is a first step."

Mayor Dianne Watts said during the meeting that one-third of this city is designated Agricultural Land Reserve, but noted Despommier's vision could help address issues including flooding and climate change.

"And weather-related issues," Despommier added. "You get your environment back. That's the biggest benefit."

kdiakiw@surreyleader.com



Unbelievable!

[dreambrother808]

This has an air of substantial presence for Surrey, as opposed to purely competitive population growth numbers. I don't care how Surrey compares to Vancouver population-wise. Not much currently going on would make me turn my vision south of Fraser. When it comes down to it, LIFE in Vancouver is vastly different from life in Surrey. This comes down to people and place, the feeling of those realms. Any notion that Surrey even remotely compares to Vancouver in these terms is silly. And yes, I have spent time, depressing time, in Surrey. One can argue against this, but such arguments would have to deny glaringly obvious realities.

[raggedy13]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting the article geoff. I'd be quite interested in seeing this go up. If it didn't end up working so well, it would at least give Surrey an interesting landmark. :D

[vanman]

It would be cool as hell if Surrey was home to the world's first vertical farm, even if it is not financially viable. Is there an actual serious proposal for this in the works or is it just a "vision"?

[nickinacan]

It would be cool as hell if Surrey was home to the world's first vertical farm, even if it is not financially viable. Is there an actual serious proposal for this in the works or is it just a "vision"?

Sounds like it is something that will happen as long as city hall approves it... which I'm sure they will. I can definitely see something like this being financially viable. They could put a grocery store on the bottom and sell all their products. Everyone knows that fresh off the farm products are ALWAYS better than the products you get in the stores.

This has an air of substantial presence for Surrey, as opposed to purely competitive population growth numbers. I don't care how Surrey compares to Vancouver population-wise. Not much currently going on would make me turn my vision south of Fraser. When it comes down to it, LIFE in Vancouver is vastly different from life in Surrey. This comes down to people and place, the feeling of those realms. Any notion that Surrey even remotely compares to Vancouver in these terms is silly. And yes, I have spent time, depressing time, in Surrey. One can argue against this, but such arguments would have to deny glaringly obvious realities.

You are right. Surrey is lacking many of the things that Vancouver has due to the fact that it is still a suburb, albeit a very large one. However, this is a suburb that will become a core city, it just takes time to develop a culture and a distinct identity. I think we saw a sneak peek at what Surrey is capable of culturally with the Fusion Festival, but it still has a long way to go. As far as Vancouver goes, it needs to stop resting on its laurels because it definitely is not perfect... but that's a whole other topic. ;)

[jhausner]

They did a whole peice I believe in Popular Science about the vertical farm concept and it's ability to change the mentality of an urban environment. Was interesting stuff but I never thought it could be a Surrey realization.

Will be interesting to watc progress if it does become a reality. As for the Vancouver vs Surrey point made by the person above, seriously, go somewhere else please. If you are truely confident in the awesomeness of Vancouver, you wouldn't have to puff up your chest like a Grouse in heat and slag other cities around you that are truely trying to fix issues.

[nickinacan]

They did a whole peice I believe in Popular Science about the vertical farm concept and it's ability to change the mentality of an urban environment. Was interesting stuff but I never thought it could be a Surrey realization.

Will be interesting to watc progress if it does become a reality. As for the Vancouver vs Surrey point made by the person above, seriously, go somewhere else please. If you are truely confident in the awesomeness of Vancouver, you wouldn't have to puff up your chest like a Grouse in heat and slag other cities around you that are truely trying to fix issues.

Very well put. There are always two choices: Sit around and complain, or do something about it. I'm happy to say that I'm doing the latter.

[Volksboi]

This is really exciting, 30 storys seems a bit extreme though....It would be cool to see an official rendering

[Metro-One]

Right now this idea looks pretty cool in my head, hehe.

[vanlaw]

I think they had also hoped to build one of these in Vegas - I recall seeing the picture on the Vegas thread (maybe on SSC) sometime back. Not sure if that was ever a firm proposal or just vison though.

[NetMapel]

Seems pretty visionary to me, I like it. This is the kind of constructions that will help Surrey to build its own culture and reputation (other than having the auto theft rate in Canada, lol)

[Volksboi]

It doesnt hold the great title anymore thankfully lol...

[officedweller]

I thought it was odd that it's called a vertical "farm" rather than a vertical "greenhouse".
I guess "farm" is a more eco-friendly term than "greenhouse".

[fever]

A site has been selected in Whalley, near SFU, for a $25-million "vertical farm," a building that's the vision of several academics in the United States.

This is a 'vision'??? They've obviously never seen my friends apartment.

[crazyjoeda]

That would be awesome. I can only hope this gets built, but I am skeptical that it ever will. The civic government in Surrey likes to shy away from interesting developments. The city council would rather approve malls and ugly over priced townhouses.

[mr.sandbag]

it would be pretty cool to have smaller versions of these spread throughout the city as part of neighbourhoods, as they densify, providing freah local produce

[fever]

I'd like to see more temporary/weekend farmers markets and maybe a couple more permanent public markets, like Lonsdale quay. It would be cool if they could use the roof to grow some vegetables... that's about as far as I see this idea going realistically.

[geoff's two cents]

I don't know - they did say the site had been "selected", which leads me to believe that it is something more than a "vision". The agreement/partnership between the city and SFU also leads me to believe that the city would be more inclined to approve the project than not - It would certainly benefit both parties by giving SFU access to a sought-after research facility, and diversifying Surrey's core.

Not sure what you mean, crazyjoeda. I share your enthusiasm for the above project, but not your skepticism for the current civic administration. They have certainly done more than promote malls and townhomes - Nor are many of the recent condos overpriced by Vancouver standards. They're some of the cheapest condos available in Greater Vancouver - in close proximity to skytrain, to boot.

Hopefully we'll hear more about this as time goes on.

[dreambrother808]

As far as Vancouver goes, it needs to stop resting on its laurels because it definitely is not perfect... but that's a whole other topic. ;)

I certainly wasn't arguing that Vancouver is perfect, lol.

I just find it funny when people try to put Surrey on a similar playing field. Like you said, it is a suburb with a long way to go. I hope that it makes that journey.

[deasine]

That would be awesome. I can only hope this gets built, but I am skeptical that it ever will. The civic government in Surrey likes to shy away from interesting developments. The city council would rather approve malls and ugly over priced townhouses.

Haha my thoughts the same... I wonder what does paradigm4 think about this project

[raggedy13]

I'm curious as to how tall a 30-storey farm would be. Would the floor heights be taller than a typical residential or even commercial tower? I wouldn't be surprised if they needed to be. :shrug:

[fever]

They probably wouldn't be using heavy equipment. I mean you can grow a small crop in a regular condo.

[excel]

sweet thanks for posting the article.

[paradigm4]

Haha my thoughts the same... I wonder what does paradigm4 think about this project

Ask and ye shall receive!

Yes, cool proposals like this have tended to not come true in Surrey, though I'm not sure the blame can be placed on council. If anything, the politicians out here push for these plans, but it's usually the developers that leave the table. For example, there was a developer who wanted to turn the Fraser River waterfront near Scott Road into a "Granville Island". There's of course been the PNE proposal, many concepts from theme parks to zoos to stadiums in Green Timbers and Tynehead. Then there's the developments that actually occured but weren't successful, like that huge Asian Centre on 104th that's just sitting there empty right now. Or how council initially envisioned the Campbell Heights Industrial Park as a "high tech centre"!

My point, I'm rather skeptical about the proposal. It was my understanding that as intriguing as the concept is, the reason is has yet to be done is there's for profit margin high enough to take on the risk. The professor has taken this idea most famously to New York, and for some reason or another it wasn't done there - so why is he now in Canada proposing it here?

The fact is that while we may be running out of productive farmland worldwide, demand is not high enough to provide the profit incentive to "grow up". Once demand surpasses the possible worldwide supply based on what land is farmable, I assume the price of food would increase dramatically ("peak food" anyone?), and at that point we could start doing farmscrapers.

Also, anyone realize that a $30-100 million vertical farm would only supply enough food for 50,000 people? Not to say we in Metro Vancouver are at all self sufficient as it is in the food department, but that's a lot of money to spend to feed such few people. Imagine how many of these vertical farms they would need to feed New York for example!

So, I am cautiously optimistic when I read that a developer is about 90% ready to move forward. I'd definitely need way more information about this, though it is very good to know land is apparently already secured.

If this is truly going forward, it could be absolutely revolutionary and would definitely put Surrey on the world map for good reason. There's a ton of synergies here that could occur with SFU, SMH, the City, Metro Vancouver, the Provincial Government, local farmers, etc. etc. There's huge potential in the concept. Now, let's make sure it happens. I will definitely say that I support the idea and would work hard to see that it actually happens.

[raggedy13]

The one reason I could see that it would work in Metro Vancouver better than other areas is that there is a relatively large market for locally grown produce (particularly in the fine-dining establishments in Vancouver). And of course there is a bit of an environmentally conscious consumer market here in general. I'm not sure how expensive the agricultural land is in the Metro, but if costs are high enough there could certainly be enough demand to warrant these agricultural towers. It would be like a new sector of the urban real estate market - residential, commerical, industrial, and now agricultural. :yes: Perhaps developers would openly welcome such a new dimension to the market.

One idea that interests me is the thought of a vertical vinyard. Imagine VQA City of Vancouver!

[cornholio]

No way this could be profitable, the margins in food production are very low already...ever wonder why people dont flood to farming. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that investing 2-3 million in to farmland and greenhouses is better for a investor then investing 50mill or more in to a a vertical farm with the same production.

The only way I can ever see this happening is if it would allow developers to remove land from the ALR in exchange for a vertical farm to replace the lost farm production.

[geoff's two cents]

No way this could be profitable, the margins in food production are very low already...ever wonder why people dont flood to farming. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that investing 2-3 million in to farmland and greenhouses is better for a investor then investing 50mill or more in to a a vertical farm with the same production.

The only way I can ever see this happening is if it would allow developers to remove land from the ALR in exchange for a vertical farm to replace the lost farm production.

If the tower is used first and foremost as a research facility attached to the university (the article said that land had been set aside in Whalley, but not where in Whalley), it would have market value in at least one respect - being the only facility of its kind - and would attract federal, provincial and international funding dollars (and the educated types - scholars and grad students - who work with those dollars), and help to establish the SFU-Central City neighborhood as a highly-educated, innovative place to learn and do business.

At issue is not the market value of the fruits and veggies the facility produces (although this could certainly have market value), but the value of the research produced here for the rest of the world. Given the unique nature of the facility, I think there will be an academic market for this.

In an ideal world, the building would be constructed in such a way that, in the unlikely case that the venture is a complete flop, the space could be made livable - converted to condos, offices or some such thing. I think there's reason enough here for measured optimism.

At any rate, the SFU/Central City development has already altered our perception of what an urban/suburban space can be - a mall, office tower and university in one place! A farm high-rise sounds crazy at first - I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[paradigm4]

No way this could be profitable, the margins in food production are very low already...ever wonder why people dont flood to farming. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that investing 2-3 million in to farmland and greenhouses is better for a investor then investing 50mill or more in to a a vertical farm with the same production.

The only way I can ever see this happening is if it would allow developers to remove land from the ALR in exchange for a vertical farm to replace the lost farm production.

This was a huge concern to the environmentalists I know in Surrey. They are crying wolf that the deal for having these vertical farms is that the city would be able to remove land from the ALR. I don't think there's been any discussions of the sort at all, but you could easily imagine the politicians and developers try to pull that sort of scheming off.

[geoff's two cents]

If this allowed politicians or developers to take land from the ALR, then I wouldn't be for it either. Sprawl should be contained as much as possible in this already unruly city. It is Surrey's ability to densify in the coming years that, more than anything else, will determine whether or not it has what it takes to be taken seriously as a city.

Having said that, it would be interesting to know more about this project. Thank goodness I don't think the market value of the produce is going to be a determining factor (I could be wrong). However, with the amount of nasty fertilizers used in farming (and the strains this puts on groundwater supplies), and the fact that farm fields are essentially giant ecological monocultures, it would be fantastic if, in an ideal world, some of the ecological damage caused by farming could somehow be contained in an urban environment, and some of the existing farmland returned to fallow. At worst, if the urban farms ever became a success, I would hope the city kept some land in reserve to be developed as farmland later on.

It would be great to know more from the city on this. It could be a fantastic opportunity.

[Volksboi]

http://www.verticalfarm.com/Designs.aspx

Interesting site on vertical farms....

[Metro-One]

I am very surprised that no one else has thought that the idea of vertical farms could be a good solution to the bio-fuel vs. food crisis. These towers could be used to produce bio-fuel with no loss of agricultural land producing food. I think its a good idea, because one could grow a variety or crops in one location, the base floor could become an entire fresh produce super market. There could also be research labs within the building and it could also be a great place for community events, school field-trips, etc... I really hope this proposal goes through at full height.

[jlousa]

You'd lose way too much energy on the conversions (sunlight/vegetation/refined/burned to make it worthwhile, if you took the same tower and used it as a solar tower and used the electricity to power the cars you'd gain many precentage points in efficiency.

[ravman]

i love this idea!!!! it is awesome!!!!!

[Bockboy]

http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/surreyleader/news/33608624.html

This is the $1.6b project by Berezan from the Surrey Leader. Note that it says "One of the towers is expected to contain a vertical farm, with several floors of agriculture."

Does anyone know if this is the same Vertical Farm that is proposed near SFU?

[officedweller]

Interesting. Good catch.