[bornagainbiking]

The concept of fossil fuels and the costs associated in it's transportation is driving the market. We have Alberta but is that used in Canada or shipped abroad for profit (US). Where do we get our oil from? I heard South America.
In the shipping alone we are using vast amounts of petrol or fuel to sail the ships from the Middle East.
It is not helping when we see the fruits of the oil profits and the lavish lifestyles of the Middle East Oil barons. Not to mention the war(s) there (Iraq)

I remember not that long ago we had electric heat (80's). Canada has plenty of hydro resources.
This would ease our need for gas.
We have had problems with the big blackout and amount of useage during the summer mostly with air-conditioners. With the heat of the day comes the sun which not only makes problem, it provide the solar that would feed its own need especially during peak periods.
We have more wind than before with all the storms and global warming.
We exceeded our production/capacity but with conservation and many Canadians buying into the program we dropped somewhat. The drop from a simple 100 watt incandescant bulb is now 21. Or a 60 is a 13.
Funny an issue not discussed is that in winter a 100 watt bulb does use more juice but it is given off as heat a positive byproduct in winter.
As for HYDRO, we would need a honest knowledgable CEO for Ontario Hydro as in the past this outfit has decades of mismanagment from limos for the kids to school and the huge debt tacked onto our monthly bill to this day.
Someone has to take a close look at this great Canadian resource and use it to our advantage.
There has been so many innovations for the consumer. from front loading washers, low flow toilets, to solar night lights to LED lighting which is a further reduction from the spiral mini florescent. LED lights has taken over the christmas light marker $$$$$$$$$.
Quebec this week just started a three year pilot project for electric cars (see www.zenncars.com) for city streets at this point 40 kph max. GM is pushing the VOLT and wants it out by 2010. See the Ontario Power corporation commercials with the people plugging in their cars at night. It is coming but for their (GM) profit.
Odd they had all this technology with the EV1 but it was destroyed sort of like the Avro Arrow concept years before it's time but would rob from another industry. If you want soem insight watch "Who killed the electric car" about the EV1 in California in 1994 (GM).
We need to embrace this hydro made in Ontario solution.
We would still need fossil fuels but it would ween us back some. And reduce some elements of global warming
Funny how we are going back to so many old ways. Burn firewood (as we grow more, a renewable resource) moving from ashphalt shingles (petrol based) to metal or light weight steel (Ontario is famous for steel). They have wood pellet boilers for the home which heat home and water. I lived in Rural Nova Scotia and they still use many combo furnaces wood by day and heating oil by night.
There is the ethanol option as if we don't have enough farm land to grow bio-fuel.
I guess the key component is availibility and unless we push for better options from our government, big business will fight and lobby for the status quo and they can afford it with the current price of fossil fuels.

[Blurr]

First off, I think it would good for the environment if we were able to convert to electric heat provided that the future generation is not from coal or natural gas - as the newest plant in Ontario has been.

The problem with electric heat is the expense. Anyone who has had an apartment and has paid there own electric heat knows what this can amount to. I've seen $300 for heating months. And apartments are typically 800sq ft or less.

So the first concern I have is how to pay the bills.
Second concern is if the increased demand in electricity can realistically be provided from clean sources.

I think giving some incentives like the government has been doing to make energy retrofits is a good way to lower our fossil fuel demand. Altough I must admit that there is way too much red tape and wrong information to make them as efficient as they could be.

[MsMe]

I wouldn't doubt in time they will be coming out with this type of heating. These could also be made according to room sizes and make these wall mountable on an interior wall and put in each room. On the other side have a small sliding door to be able to change bulbs as needed. And come out with a good system to stop any pipes from freezing. They are already making wall mounted air conditioners now, and tankless water heaters. So I can see this system in time happening. And central gas heating will be a thing of the past. This kind of furnace the way it is right now would be great for apartments.

http://www.portablefurnace.com/

[adam]

Natural gas prices are due to go up this winter. As gas prices go up, electric heating is more attractive. Around 60% of electrical generation in Ontario is nuclear. They are building another plant next to the Darlington one also.

[MsMe]

I wished I had the money to buy one of those infrared furnaces. As my house is only 625 sq. ft.

[bornagainbiking]

I agree with MsMe and to heat room by room is common sense.
Last winter I bought an electric Presto Heat Dish, it is the one, the door greeters at Costco use. I found it threw the heat across a room at you. It is a parabolic heater and can be aimed. so if you are the only one watching TV or reading. Last year they were like $60 this yr $68.
I like it so much I am getting another for my living room.
I noticed I did use less natural gas and it was mostly used in the evenings which is cheaper I think.
Sounds dumb but remember heat rises and cold falls So my fireplace in the basement does get a bit more mileage.
I wonder about the recent improvements with the electric fireplaces and maybe that might be an option to a room heater.
I guess We have to lobby to reduce electrical rates.

[coalminecanary]

I am planning on building some solar room heaters, probably next year. If you have a south facing wall, they are reasonably simple to build...

here is an example. i plan to mount mine directly to the vertical wall with an intake coming through the wall near the floor and outlet closer to the ceiling. A low speed ceiling fan might help circulate but not 100% necessary.

http://www.mobilehomerepair.com/article17solar.htm

We also have an attic bedroom that is inaccessible via furnace, so i hope to do a fan powered solar heater for these, with a small electric fireplace as a backup for grey days.

[Blurr]

I agree that technology is the answer to doing all that is being suggested. I just need to stress that there needs to be more production of electricity and imo nuclear energy - for there to be a serious shift to electric heat.


I think I read that in Quebec the government is giving $2000 to each household that changes to electric heat. They have lots of clean hydro power and are in a better position to create such an incentive.

MSMe- That is an interesting furnace. I will have to find out more about that. Thanks!

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

Yeah, in alot of the country electric heat is the worst thing to do for the environment.

BC has little hydro potential left, and the praries (save manitoba) use coal. Ontario is trying to cut house by house consumption so they can support more people on the same baseload amount of energy.

If Quebec's power rates weren't effectively subsidized, the natural gas conversion would have happend years ago. And realistically, if Quebec had converted, there would have been a big push to do the rest of teh maritimes aswell.

I would have to bet, that natural gas heating, plus a carbon charge would still cost less than electric heat.

Every MW of clean electricity used for heating is a MW of coal power not shut down due to displacement in the market. (obviously, that displacement wouldn't be within the boundaries of Quebec). Quebec's electric heating push has always seemed to me to be wasteful, and in the end more harmful than good.

[omro]

I wouldn't doubt in time they will be coming out with this type of heating. These could also be made according to room sizes and make these wall mountable on an interior wall and put in each room. On the opposite wall have a small sliding door to be able to change bulbs as needed. And come out with a good system to stop any pipes from freezing. They are already making wall mounted air conditioners now. So I can see this system in time happening. And central gas heating will be a thing of the past. This kind of furnace the way it is right now would be great for apartments.

http://www.portablefurnace.com/

It is interesting, but even if it's less wattage than a coffee maker, that is usually only on long enough to make the coffee. A few minutes at most?

How long would that heater have to be on to heat a cold room and keep it warm? That's where it could get expensive. More than a few minutes I'm sure! A few hours maybe?

[omro]

Am I right in remembering that I'd read an article about a potential off shore wind farm on Lake Ontario for producing power for the Hamilton region?

[MsMe]

And yes having a smaller one in each room IMO would be better as one could control the temps in each room more. No sense keeping the heat up higher in other rooms if no one is in there.
If a person lived in a yurt like this, that floor model would be just fine.

http://www.yurtco.com/images/interior/page_08.htm

I wish we could tell mother nature to turn up the thermastat in winter. But I don't think she is listening. :haha

[bornagainbiking]

Hey Hamilton city council, forget about a four day work week.
Instead of advertising and ads. how about doing the wind thing and reduce electricity rates for the city. Or harness some of those waterfalls.
Talk about incentive and rewards for Hamilton.
It would sell itself and be cutting edge. Force other cities to compete.
As for us citizens, Guelph has a co-op group for buying solar in bulk for the club/co-op.

[MsMe]

Here is a DIY for insulating pipes. The job looks easy but getting at the pipes can be tricky.

http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/diy_kits/article/0,2019,DIY_13787_2275412,00.html

[bornagainbiking]

Low-speed electric cars to roll over Quebec roads
Updated Tue. Sep. 30 2008 11:01 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

A fleet of made-in-Quebec low-speed electric cars has a tentative green light to hit the roads in that province.

But a three-year pilot project will determine whether the cars will be allowed on roads for good.

The city of Montreal was one of the first in line for the ZENN, a name that stands for Zero Emission, No Noise.

"The car can go 40 kilometres per hour and has a range of 60 kilometres of distance, then you have to replug," Gilles Allard, vice president of production, told CTV News.

Safety regulations and political opposition kept the cars off Canadian streets for years, while the Quebec manufactured cars were allowed in many U.S. states.

However, the province has plugged in and set up a pilot project allowing the vehicles in areas where the speed limit is 50 kilometres an hour. The cars must also have a warning sign indicating they travel at low speeds.

To some, a slower speed is a road hazard.

"They're not particularly safe, although they look like a regular car," said Arne Elias of the Centre for Sustainable Transportation.

The car's range is limited and may have a hard time facing Quebec winters, but the ZENN also cuts down on pollution and costs.

"To charge over one night it draws 40 kilowatts and we are talking about forty cents, and it's basically no maintenance after that," Allard said.

Provinces explore electric transportation

The project in Quebec comes as other provinces start opening their roads to electric cars.

Ontario is also running a more limited pilot project, allowing the vehicles in conservation areas. Meanwhile, Vancouver has gone even further, passing a bylaw that paves the way for allowing electric cars on all city streets.

It's a jolt of interest that experts say is easily explained.

"We're basically running out of fossil fuel and this is the answer," said Al Cormier of Electric Mobility Canada.

Several companies, including ZENN, are now designing higher speed vehicles that can travel further and faster.

[bornagainbiking]

Hydro prices on the rise
TheSpec.com - Business - Hydro prices on the rise

The Canadian Press

TORONTO (Oct 16, 2008)
The Ontario Energy Board is raising basic electricity prices by more than 10 per cent -- to 5.6 cents per kilowatt-hour for use of up to 1,000 kWh a month and 6.5 cents per kWh above that.

The board says the impact will be $2.40 per month on a residence consuming 1,000 kWh monthly, compared with the summer price.

However, compared with last winter's rate, the increase would be $6 a month or 12 per cent. For power use above the 1,000-kilowatt per hour level, the increase is 10.2 per cent.

The rate, reset at the start of each May and November, previously was five cents per kilowatt-hour, up to the lower summer threshold of 600 kWh, and 5.9 cents per kWh for consumption above that level.

The board said the price increase -- reflected on the "electricity" line of consumer utility bills -- is caused by several factors, including new higher-cost renewable and natural gas generation projects coming into service, and an expected rise in the cost of electricity from nuclear and large hydro plants.

[MsMe]

I agree with MsMe and to heat room by room is common sense.
Last winter I bought an electric Presto Heat Dish, it is the one, the door greeters at Costco use. I found it threw the heat across a room at you. It is a parabolic heater and can be aimed. so if you are the only one watching TV or reading. Last year they were like $60 this yr $68.
I like it so much I am getting another for my living room.
I noticed I did use less natural gas and it was mostly used in the evenings which is cheaper I think.
Sounds dumb but remember heat rises and cold falls So my fireplace in the basement does get a bit more mileage.
I wonder about the recent improvements with the electric fireplaces and maybe that might be an option to a room heater.
I guess We have to lobby to reduce electrical rates.

What kind of fireplace are you using? If it's a wood fireplace I know a place where you can get free wood on occasion. Pm me if you want to know where.

[vid]

Stop using gas to heat your home! Use the energy made by burning coal and flooding habitats!! That's the way! If we recycled the waste, nuclear would be almost as clean as wind and solar.

It costs about 2 cents to produce a kWh in Northwestern Ontario. We pay full price. Thank us. (Because if we didn't, you'd be paying 6 cents.)

Electric heaters can heat a room with good air circulation in about 20 minutes. If the room is cluttered it could take hours and you'd be left with cold spots. Aside from one heater taking about 20 minutes, you have to have a heater for every room in the house. The house I grew up in used electric heaters as supplemental heat (sub-arctic, you see) and we used them occasionally. They weren't much of a supplement.

[MsMe]

I talked to a net friend that tried this furnace.

http://www.portablefurnace.com/

He said it wasn't that great and it wouldn't turn off when it got to the room temp. He sent it back then tried another and said something else with that wasn't right as well and sent it back too and didn't get another.

I guess they need more perfecting yet.

[Duckyboy]

Hey Hamilton city council, forget about a four day work week.
Instead of advertising and ads. how about doing the wind thing and reduce electricity rates for the city. Or harness some of those waterfalls.
Talk about incentive and rewards for Hamilton.
It would sell itself and be cutting edge. Force other cities to compete.
As for us citizens, Guelph has a co-op group for buying solar in bulk for the club/co-op.

Hmmm... I've been thinking of this for some time now. My uncle-in-law works for a Dutch windmill company (how stereotypical, huh?) and is currently in China selling loads of windmills to them.

I've always wondered, what with all the flat, brownfields, no mountains to block the wind, our proximity to the water and this towns built-in, blue-collar population, why don't we start making our own energy? We could be the Engine of Canada once again.

Anyone (engineers, perhaps?) have any thoughts on this? I don't know enough about it to start saying this-or-that about it. It just seems quite fitting for Hamilton.

[highwater]

You'd think it would be a no brainer. Richard Gilbert proposed that Hamilton make energy production and conservation its civic mission in his 2006 report to the city on peak oil.

http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=316

Naturally it fell on deaf ears.

[omro]

You'd think it would be a no brainer. Richard Gilbert proposed that Hamilton make energy production and conservation its civic mission in his 2006 report to the city on peak oil.

http://www.raisethehammer.org/index.asp?id=316

Naturally it fell on deaf ears.

:koko:

Agreed, a total no brainer. This passage leapt out at me, though not entirely on topic of electric heat, but it's electric:

Calgary has installed a light rail transit system that is powered entirely by wind. (To be precise: the transit system draws from the electric grid and the wind farm feeds into the grid, so that the wind farm produces as much electricity as the transit system uses.) This is an excellent example for Hamilton to follow.

Weren't there plans to build a wind farm for Hamilton on Lake Ontario?

[Duckyboy]

:koko:

Agreed, a total no brainer. This passage leapt out at me, though not entirely on topic of electric heat, but it's electric:



Weren't there plans to build a wind farm for Hamilton on Lake Ontario?

Yea, this would seem to make sense. And look at today; it was so windy... I know NOTHING of harnessing wind power (I'm an accounting student, not an engineer!), but Hamilton seems pretty ripe fot this kind of city-changing technology.

Sorry for inadvertantly turning this thread/talking about "wind power" rather than it's original "electric heat"... it just caught my eye and I had to comment on it.

[omro]

Sorry for inadvertantly turning this thread/talking about "wind power" rather than it's original "electric heat"... it just caught my eye and I had to comment on it.

The wind power would provide the electricity for the electric heater, without the burning of fossil fuels to create the electricity to re-create the heat (which is kind of dumb if you think about it), so it sort of follows in my book :yes:

[MsMe]

They should change the heading of the thread to "sources of energy".

[omro]

They should change the heading of the thread to "sources of energy".

Not necessarily, we could start a new thread and return this one back to its intended topic.

It's my fault, I'm forever going off on tangents.

[Duckyboy]

The wind power would provide the electricity for the electric heater, without the burning of fossil fuels to create the electricity to re-create the heat (which is kind of dumb if you think about it), so it sort of follows in my book :yes:

Hahaha! I like the "degrees-of-seperation"-style logic you applied there...

Thanks for getting my back!