[Rumors]

I was wondering what you guys think, I read an article yesterday that said it could happen to Canada in the near future. I find the media in Canada blows everything way out of proportion, :gaah: but they do a good job scaring the shit out of me every time I listen to the news. :ahhh:

So what do you guys think? :hmmm:

[WhipperSnapper]

1992 has come and gone

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

In the terms of foreclosures, bank collapses, bailout, NO.

In terms of a slowing world wide economy, low credit liquidity, general world wide recession, there is no way we can avoid that.

[someone123]

^ Agreed.

The stories of people over-extending themselves in the US are unbelievable and seem much more common than I would have expected. Traditionally I think Canadians tend to be more conservative with their finances. I hope it continues.

Unfortunately we still have to deal with the impact of a contracting US economy.

[1ajs]

shits hitting the fan and its gone global its been global alot long then we realize... the us media is not realy helping things either

[Rumors]

shits hitting the fan and its gone global its been global alot long then we realize... the us media is not realy helping things either

Yes I watch CNN. :uhh:

[SpongeG]

its already happenning

[vid]

Canada's system is different than America's. A lot of the factors that caused the credit crisis don't exist in Canada but there is no doubt that the repercussions of a slowing American economy will be felt here. All nations are being negatively impacted by it. Even China.

We won't see banks collapsing or millions of people losing their homes though.

[SpongeG]

we are safe from that kind of thing

my friend was telling me last night of a call centre here that laid of something like 70 people and reduced it to less than 10 to deal with what over 80 were doing before

i know business where I work is slower than usual - same with a store where a friend works - they have cut everyones hours down big time - my firned lost 1-2 shifts per week and has been sent home early a few times the last couple of weeks

people just aren't coming into shop and its usually the busiest time of the year for him

[Boreal]

Mr. Olsen already declassified the briefing.

[Nicko999]

In the terms of foreclosures, bank collapses, bailout, NO.

In terms of a slowing world wide economy, low credit liquidity, general world wide recession, there is no way we can avoid that.

Agreed!:tup:
That's exactly what I wanted to say. There is just no way to escape from the slowing World economy. But it won't as bad as in the US(bank collapses, bankruptcy, etc).

[Nathan]

we are safe from that kind of thing

my friend was telling me last night of a call centre here that laid of something like 70 people and reduced it to less than 10 to deal with what over 80 were doing before

i know business where I work is slower than usual - same with a store where a friend works - they have cut everyones hours down big time - my firned lost 1-2 shifts per week and has been sent home early a few times the last couple of weeks

people just aren't coming into shop and its usually the busiest time of the year for him

This may be true where you live, but since Saskatchewan is going through a boom there is a severe labour shortage here. There are advertisements for jobs all over the place right now, and not enough people to fill all the positions.

This slowdown has different affects on the various regions of Canada. Manitoba is also going through an upswing, though I don't live there, so I can't say what the local employment market is like.


So, for the time being, it seems like Saskatchewan is avoiding the worldwide slowdown that Nicko is referring to... although who knows how long that will last...

[Distill3d]

Canada's system is different than America's. A lot of the factors that caused the credit crisis don't exist in Canada but there is no doubt that the repercussions of a slowing American economy will be felt here. All nations are being negatively impacted by it. Even China.

We won't see banks collapsing or millions of people losing their homes though.

from what i understand of the Canadian economic system, this is what i believe.

we will have some downfall from all of this, especially since our largest trading partner is the Americans. however, it won't hit us as hard as the doom-sayers are saying. and some of our politicians are clueless (not pointing any fingers) and would rather invoke us to fear what happens in the US is going to happen here in full scale.

[401_King]

the crisis is already spilling into canada in an economic slowdown. our banks are relatively in good shape other than the debt capital markets areas of the banks...some groups which have been wiped out completely on bay street. and whats with everyone just noticing this stuff anyway, it must be that the mainstream media is just noticing the taxpayer bailout. this bailout was inevitable and was made very clear to the public many months ago once Bear Stearns collapsed.

[Spring2008]

People would be unwise to think the credit crisis won't effect Canada. Basically, either way the U.S. is definitely heading towards a recession and if the U.S government is going pay these inflated prices to bail out the investors and their mortgage back securities the U.S is going to be entering a "GREAT RECESSION". Printing and borrowing money to transfer money from the American taxpayers to the upper class is just the beginning. If U.S goes through with the bailout as currently proposed expect to see very high inflation rates, high risks of lender's strike, US dollar collapse, higher interest rates, more defaults, U.S unable to rollover debt, higher prices for houses/assets, real income/wealth losses, big U.S currency losses for foreign creditors(Run on $). The U.S. will be undergoing a recession either way, but with this bailout the recession will last much longer. The sad thing is the politicians/elitist are trying to sell this as a mortgage bailout which it's not, it's a mortgage back securities bailout, huge difference.

BTW, I could explain the outcomes of not paying out the bailout as currently proposed if anybody wants me too also, I just didn't want to make this post so long. There will no doubt be some drawbacks to this approach, but this approach would be much more fair and entails much less consequences.

So yeah with the Republicans and their "conservative policies" most likely going to purse this crazy bailout the U.S is going to be in further trouble and this will effect Canada to a certain extent.

One last point, anybody who thinks that Canada, particularly western Canada is invincible to a similar type of Mortgage crisis(Not so much a credit crisis as Canadian banks are generally much more diversified and well capitalized than their U.S. counterparts) needs to give their head a little shake. Make no mistake about it most real estate markets in western Canada are in a market bubble. Prices over the last half decade have skyrocketed, while incomes have gone up at a Much lower rate. There are those who still believe that annual income should be about 30-40% of mortgage costs. Right now that is certainly not the case. Even with the recent small decline in average prices, prices are still well over long-term trends.

[jeffwhit]

In the terms of foreclosures, bank collapses, bailout, NO.

In terms of a slowing world wide economy, low credit liquidity, general world wide recession, there is no way we can avoid that.

Bingo. Our banking and loan industry is so much more regulated. There aren't these fly-by-night mortgage brokers here like there were in the States leading up to this.

If anyone wants to have a better understanding of how this mess in the US really happened, I highly recommend the NPR This American Life story on it, it will blow your mind.

http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=355

[HomeInMyShoes]

^We don't have the exposure as the US does with our banks, but there is still exposure. Many of our banks have written off some of the bad debt already and there's probably a bit more to write off. I think we could definitely see a reduced ability of consumers to secure loans and this will affect consumers and businesses alike. I agree it's probably not to the extent it is in the US, but we will feel it for sure.

[KrisYYC]

Do you guys think the relatively healthy Canadian banks will start buying up some US banks for pennies on the dollar?

[1ajs]

tsx is curently down -905 points... dow down -672

[Sir.Humphrey.Appleby]

Do you guys think the relatively healthy Canadian banks will start buying up some US banks for pennies on the dollar?

When WaMu was up for sale, rumour was TD was one of the options. The only problem is that Canadian Banks don't have access to fed lending facilities (the Bear Sterns bailout) so end up paying capital costs.

As the market deteriorates further, I think it is possible that one of the banks will make a move. I don't think we will see them buy a big bank, (like WaMu last week, or Wachovia today), but many smaller banks (500 branches or less) would be good targets.

[MolsonExport]

Mostly the CIBC, long the most tawdry of the big Canadian banks.

[graupner]

tsx is curently down -905 points... dow down -672

and don't forget Shorting is currently forbidden in the USA !! Otherwise the SP500 would be down somewhere 20% today!!!!


It would be foolish to think Canada is resilient to this:


Manulife will loose about 10 Billions in 3rd/4th Quarter stocks writedowns
Sunlife a similar ammount
Most canadian major investors (pension funds, banks, insurance companies, etc.) are currently loosing hundreds of billions.
The financial sector, especially in Toronto, will not provide the same job growth it did in recent years.
RIM is down 56% since its most recent high ( RIM is one of the most held stock by single canadian investors). It will hurt.
thousands of investors lost billions of dollars in energy writedowns.
What remains of canadian manufacturing in Ontario and Quebec will be whiped out in the upcoming years
trades with the USA will decline or at best remain the same.


In my opinion, The canadian storm just started. For us, it will be mostly a ressource ( minerals, energy) crisis, triggered by the credit crisis and economic slowdown.


Already, upcoming albertan oil sands projects are more uncertain as the costs rise and the potential income ( oil price) drops.
most new mines projects in northern quebec, bc or ontario are dead.

Saskatchewan will be catch up too. Its economic boom there is based only on ressources !!!

[Calgarian]

and don't forget Shorting is currently forbidden in the USA !! Otherwise the SP500 would be down somewhere 20% today!!!!


It would be foolish to think Canada is resilient to this:


Manulife will loose about 10 Billions in 3rd/4th Quarter stocks writedowns
Sunlife a similar ammount
Most canadian major investors (pension funds, banks, insurance companies, etc.) are currently loosing hundreds of billions.
The financial sector, especially in Toronto, will not provide the same job growth it did in recent years.
RIM is down 56% since its most recent high ( RIM is one of the most held stock by single canadian investors). It will hurt.
thousands of investors lost billions of dollars in energy writedowns.
What remains of canadian manufacturing in Ontario and Quebec will be whiped out in the upcoming years
trades with the USA will decline or at best remain the same.


In my opinion, The canadian storm just started. For us, it will be mostly a ressource ( minerals, energy) crisis, triggered by the credit crisis and economic slowdown.


Already, upcoming albertan oil sands projects are more uncertain as the costs rise and the potential income ( oil price) drops.
most new mines projects in northern quebec, bc or ontario are dead.

Saskatchewan will be catch up too. Its economic boom there is based only on ressources !!!


I think a slowdown in the Oil Sands will be a good thing, Alberta can't keep growing at the pace it has in the last few years.

[graupner]

I think a slowdown in the Oil Sands will be a good thing, Alberta can't keep growing at the pace it has in the last few years.

I think too, in fact it can't keep growing, the manforce is not there !! They can't keep raising wages.

[You Need A Thneed]

We'll feel the effects here, but it won't be a crisis. So, no to the poll.

[Aylmer]

I was wondering what you guys think, I read an article yesterday that said it could happen to Canada in the near future. I find the media in Canada blows everything way out of proportion, :gaah: but they do a good job scaring the shit out of me every time I listen to the news. :ahhh:

So what do you guys think? :hmmm:

All I've heard from the media is that it will never happen here...

But then again, I am quite the obsessive optimist!

:)

[Ruckus]

and don't forget Shorting is currently forbidden in the USA !! Otherwise the SP500 would be down somewhere 20% today!!!!


It would be foolish to think Canada is resilient to this:


Manulife will loose about 10 Billions in 3rd/4th Quarter stocks writedowns
Sunlife a similar ammount
Most canadian major investors (pension funds, banks, insurance companies, etc.) are currently loosing hundreds of billions.
The financial sector, especially in Toronto, will not provide the same job growth it did in recent years.
RIM is down 56% since its most recent high ( RIM is one of the most held stock by single canadian investors). It will hurt.
thousands of investors lost billions of dollars in energy writedowns.
What remains of canadian manufacturing in Ontario and Quebec will be whiped out in the upcoming years
trades with the USA will decline or at best remain the same.


In my opinion, The canadian storm just started. For us, it will be mostly a ressource ( minerals, energy) crisis, triggered by the credit crisis and economic slowdown.


Already, upcoming albertan oil sands projects are more uncertain as the costs rise and the potential income ( oil price) drops.
most new mines projects in northern quebec, bc or ontario are dead.

Saskatchewan will be catch up too. Its economic boom there is based only on ressources !!!

How long until that scenario develops though? And how dramatic will the effect be on resource markets? Remembering that we've hit new demand plateaus thanks to creation and representation of middle class markets in China, Brazil, India.

Saskatchewan unfortunately, or fortunately, produces very few luxury goods. We are however one of the top global exporters of many energy and agricultural commodities, with high demand world wide.

People need to eat...potash and wheat --> long term there is increasing global demand for both, despite market uncertainty, same can be said for uranium, oil, natural gas.

The basic argument is as follows:

During recession/slowing economic growth, consumers will still need to meet their basic needs (food, shelter items), but will decrease their consumption of luxury goods (tech toys, new cars, tourism, other manufactured goods) to reflect their depressed income outlook/reality. That reality is decreased purchasing power WRT to commodities, and an inability to purchase luxury or even basic goods on credit. So while luxury good markets faulter due to tightening credit markets, commodity markets will maintain their steady ascent to new levels of demand due to their value relative to luxury goods during a recession/slowing economic growth.

The mood over here is very optimistic, or perhaps we're still in the naive phase...if that is true, we have a few years left before commodity markets collapse, though I am doubtful of that based on an assortment of projections.

History provides great lessons. Currently, Saskatchewan's population is slightly over 1 million people, which is roughly the same population as just before the Great Depression hit. However, our economy is much more diversified and better positioned to ride out an economic bust this time around (thanks to a diversified resource base, as well as increased global demand and relative scarcity of our resources).

I remain convinced Saskatchewan will come out of this mess, relatively unscathed, perhaps we can even benefit(exploit) from these uncertain times.

[240glt]

Dow just lost 800 points, or $1.2 trillion in value.

[Calgarian]

I think too, in fact it can't keep growing, the manforce is not there !! They can't keep raising wages.

And Fort McMurray can't handle anymore growth, that city is seriously bursting at the seams.

I think Oil production will continue to be extremely profitable, but not as much as we have seen in the last 5 years or so, so many of these multi billion dollar plants in Athabasca that are proposed will probably not happen until the world markets stabalize.

[Rumors]

Hey Guys. I was watching the news tonight and I heard a chief economist say, there's a large world bank that is a little wobbly right now, :Titanic: and might fall into bankruptcy but she would'nt name it. :hmmm:

[Nicko999]

The House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion plan to rescue the financial system.

Now, the US are in big trouble. And I really mean BIG trouble.

[Spring2008]

Now, the US are in big trouble. And I really mean BIG trouble.

Really did they, haven't had time to watch t.v today, but if they did that's good news. I guess nobody bothered to read my previous post on why the $700 billion bailout could have turned into a disaster. Didn't really think anybody would read much into it/believe it since it is too complicated for the average person. If the government refuses to provide the bailout it's not going to be pretty, but it's going to be much better than they did. Read my previous post for the consequences of the bailout, soon when I have more time I'll explain the likely outcomes of not bailing out.

[Spring2008]

Okay, this is my last post on this subject. My analysis is based on what we've been researching/discussing in an economics class. Views are shared by my professor and many leading American Economists. I realize that these outcomes are not set in stone, and that the education system may have failed me again. Anyways take this for what it's worth.

Here is the consequences of the bailout again:


[QUOTE=Spring2008;3828325]People would be unwise to think the credit crisis won't effect Canada. Basically, either way the U.S. is definitely heading towards a recession and if the U.S government is going pay these inflated prices to bail out the investors and their mortgage back securities the U.S is going to be entering a "GREAT RECESSION". Printing and borrowing money to transfer money from the American taxpayers to the upper class is just the beginning. If U.S goes through with the bailout as currently proposed expect to see very high inflation rates, high risks of lender's strike, US dollar collapse, higher interest rates, more defaults, U.S unable to rollover debt, higher prices for houses/assets, real income/wealth losses, big U.S currency losses for foreign creditors(Run on $). The U.S. will be undergoing a recession either way, but with this bailout the recession will last much longer. The sad thing is the politicians/elitist are trying to sell this as a mortgage bailout which it's not, it's a mortgage back securities bailout, huge difference.

Not bailing out
Here is some of the consequences of not bailing out:
-More banks go bust from 100+ with bailout to 300+ without bailout
-massive portfolio losses
-still pay deposit insurance, limit $100,000/person
-announce only deposit insurance paid
-people who are below $100,000, no real incentive to bank run

Benefits of not bailing out:
-Freeze up ends, banks/IB's/creditors start taking low offers on asset(mortgage back securities) & bonds
-house prices fall further back to long term trend
-right now around 1 million vacant houses, start reselling into very eager hands
-helps get houses filled

$U.S dollar effects
-deflationary for 2-4years
-rents fall
-no run on U.S dollar
foreign $U.S holders get a one time gain
-no lenders strike
-low nominal interest rates, inflation implies> 0 real interest rates.

[Ruckus]

The commentary from this guy is exceptional, quite colorful :haha:

Kvv_5Q4EfNI

[Spring2008]

^Awesome vid.

[Rico Rommheim]

Now, the US are in big trouble. And I really mean BIG trouble.

Good Fuck 'em!

[Rico Rommheim]

The commentary from this guy is exceptional, quite colorful :haha:

Kvv_5Q4EfNI

ha, this guy's a riot!

[Me&You]

Good Fuck 'em!

That's the spirit! :tup:










:rolleyes:

[Spring2008]

Although investors may get screwed over in many of the north American stock markets one has to look at the underlying problem. Since the Reagan era aggregate stock prices have been going up almost exponentially, which suggests long-term profits must be going up exponentially as a whole, since share prices reflect future profits/discount factor. It may be possible for one companies profits to go up exponentially in the short run, but is it possible for all the companies profits go up exponentially in the long run. For example, say Dell's share price rises exponentially(Large increases in profits), that would mean they are taking market share away from other companies in the communications industry. So how could the aggregate of all the communication industries profits keep going up exponentially in the long run. That would require the communications industry to eat up a larger and larger slice of the total gdp. Obviously, there are limits to profit growth, and the American stock markets since the 1980's in particular have become more and more over-valued. This drop in stock prices could be the beginning of trend to bring share prices back to long term trends(before the exponential share price growth since the Reagan era); unless rationality doesn't kick in and these classes of assets are going to be permanently over valued.

From Wikipedia
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/IE_Real_SandP_Prices%2C_Earnings%2C_and_Dividends_1871-2006.png/800px-IE_Real_SandP_Prices%2C_Earnings%2C_and_Dividends_1871-2006.png

[Spring2008]

Hate to sound like the grim reaper, but obviously a lot of families are way beyond their abilities(way too much borrowing).

From mwhodges.home.att.net
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/natdebt-vs-natincome.gif

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm

[Rumors]

You really seem to know what your talking about, Rumors is impressed. :tup: :yes: :previous:

[graupner]

Why are you putting some american graphs ? we are talking about Canada here !!!


Here is your worse bubble in the past 80 years ready to burst:

Red: Existing homes average price
Black: Available income by inhabitant
http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08402/canada1538.jpg

Average existing homes resale price, by canadian cities
http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08402/canada2344.jpg



Of course, everything will be fine !!! ...

[401_King]

haha...graphique!

[Spring2008]

^I'm not going to lie to you, as I said in my first post on the first page I think real estate especially in western Canada is in a market bubble. The future of real estate prices here is yet to be seen. Regardless though the situation in the U.S is much more complex and potentially disastrous.

[Rico Rommheim]

haha...graphique!

:shrug:

[graupner]

construction jobs and real estate jobs will be hardly hit. Banks will be hit too. governments will be hit.

don't think canada's lending practices were perfect. What about those 40 years, variable rates mortgages ?? This is the definition of a subprime mortgage !!!

the party is soon over.

combined with a ressource slowdown in the west and a manufacturing disaster in the east, you're in for the perfect storm.

[Spring2008]

^In my previous post I was strictly comparing the potential mortgage crisis of the two countries. You're absolutely right though as far as the economy as a whole goes. One only has to look as far as trade volumes among NAFTA members to realize how big of a trading partner U.S. is to Canada. Obviously, the greater the U.S falls into recession the smaller the demand for Canadian exports of all kind will be.

[SpongeG]

BC is apparently the safest in the country to ride it out as they have gained China and Korea and rely less on the USA

anyway thats what someone said on the news

other than that I have no investments to worry about other than something I am forced to do at work that might hurt I guess but not much impact on me now

[Spring2008]

Alright let's bring this thread back from the dead.
Here are some highlights of an interesting article in the October 2008 Macleans magazine.

Goods News: Canada's sub-prime market has managed to stay under 5% of the total market. Contrary to the United States where 30% of mortgages issued between 2004-2006 where of the sub-prime variety.

Bad News: Housing affordability, duh
Measures how easily a family earning an average income and paying current mortgage rates could afford a typical house on the market. Housing affordability has deteriorated to levels not seen since the early 1990's.

When house prices get out of whack, there are only 4 ways to turn it around again:failing interest rates, rising incomes, massive inflation, or outright house price declines.
Currently
-Interest rates are already near rock bottom
-Inflation has been kept in check
-a deteriorating economy means growth in incomes will be limited
-that leaves only one option, falling house prices.


To use a sort of analogy: with a likely North American recession looming more skilled labor will be accessible and thus labor shortages will begin to fall in Alberta, thus wages for most oil rig workers will hopefully be falling back down to equilibrium levels in a normal economy. With wages leveling off and average housing prices still very high in across Alberta, how are most Albertans going to have enough money to afford a new monster truck, lol that's right I said it.:cool:

PS- I don't have a problem with Albertans who don't drive big trucks around thinking they're macho.

[urbanfan89]

The lack of credit has definitely spilt over. My family runs a small business that until this year was able to get funding easily.

Lately no one wants to chip in.

My first ever application for a credit card was denied this week. It shows how scared the banks are.

[Aylmer]

I was able to get a card for my cat just a couple of months ago (As a joke)!

I thought they always accepted applications...

:(

[mersar]

My first ever application for a credit card was denied this week. It shows how scared the banks are.

To an extent. However not all are scared, I have 2 credit cards (both are pretty much unused except for the occasional time I use paypal and it defaults to it), and my limit keeps increasing by pretty good amounts every few months. And my credit is about as good as you can expect a students credit to be (2 cards, line of credit and a car loan). And they are loving people with good ratings trying to get them to use the cards, my dad mentioned a few weeks back his 5 digit limit was doubled last month, despite the fact he's never charged a cent to that particular card. The number of offers has dropped though, at one point I was getting one every week or two (and usuallly from one of the two companies I have a card from, 90% of the time)

[lubicon]

BA Energy shelves Ft. Sask. upgrader

BA Energy Heartland unable to find financing to continue construction of $5-billion facility
Dave Cooper, The Edmonton Journal
Published: Thursday, September 25, 2008
EDMONTON - A partially completed oilsands upgrader project near Fort Saskatchewan has been mothballed by its owners.

The BA Energy Heartland upgrader, owned since last spring by Calgary-based Value Creation Inc., was quietly closed down this week.

"They told us it would be three or four years before they go back to the site, it's very disappointing," Gerry Gabinet, manager of Strathcona County's economic development department, said Wednesday.
Hundreds of millions of dollars had already been spent on construction when the previous owners ran into economic trouble earlier this year. When Value Creation acquired the upgrader project, company president Columba Yeung said his firm was "fully committed to the successful completion" of the project.

No company officials were available for comment.

Today, a large tower and rows of fabricated equipment spread across the site near Shell's Scotford refinery and upgrader. As well, much of BA Energy's underground work has been completed.

With recent price escalations, it is expected the project could cost a total of $5 billion. Phase one would have processed 77,500 barrels a day of bitumen blend with production eventually rising to 260,000 bbl/d.

BA Energy intended to buy bitumen on the market and process it for customers. But with the continuing credit crisis and no contracts in hand, obtaining the billions of dollars needed has proved impossible.

Value Creation also has a major underground (steam-assisted gravity drainage) oilsands project near Fort McMurray which would have supplied the upgrader.

"They told us they will focus on that area first," said Gabinet.

Getting the bitumen flowing, and getting some cash coming in, is a pretty normal approach for oilsands developers, said Laurie Danielson, executive director of the Northeast Capital Industrial Association.

"It is logical for these firms. Everything is contingent on financing for them to proceed."

The other independent project, the North West Upgrader, is still a year or more away from major construction.

Located on the west side of the North Saskatchewan River adjacent to Petro-Canada's proposed Fort Hills project, North West is trying to raise billions in cash and establish bitumen supplies and customer contracts.

"We have spent $300 million in engineering and design. And our major vessels, ordered two and a half years ago, are ready to be shipped from Japan," said senior vice-president Rob Pearce. The cost estimate for his upgrader jumped to $4.2 billion last year.

Today, the North West upgrader site is still just a field.

Pearce said his project will produce low-sulphur diesel, in addition to other products. And he has an arrangement with Enhance Energy to provide two-thirds of the upgrader's carbon dioxide offgas for injection to improve oilfield production. "We have our CO2 solution, and we have prefab contracts with KBR (construction) ready to go."

But Pearce said he will spend the next year trying to get supply and customer contracts lined up, then go after funding. He hopes construction could start within a year

Fee-for-service or merchant upgraders will be eagerly eyeing Alberta's new royalty program, which begins on Jan. 1. The province will be accepting bitumen as payment for royalties.

Petro-Canada has said it will decide by the end of the year whether to proceed immediately on its upgrader. Shell's Scotford upgrader is currently being expanded. Two other upgrader projects, from French oil giant Total and Norway's Statoil-Hydro, are still in the regulatory approval stage.

[Rumors]

I guess we will just have to wait and see. :rolleyes:

[boden]

This thread takes the cake....and the guy from Saskatchewan who thinks his province will actually benefit.....:haha:

[CMD UW]

I said 'no' as our financial institutions will not collapse as many have in the US and Europe. Yes, our banks will take a hit and have been given that they have been exposed to this. But we won't experience the same type of crash.

Where we will feel it is via the effects of the recession that will plague the US. We are a commodity-based economy, and as prices fall, so will the growth of those respective industries.

Except gold....;)

[lubicon]

The effects are starting to show up in the oil patch now. Companies are seeing their stock prices getting hammered and it is increasingly difficult to raise (or borrow) money to fund their programs. Many companies are cutting their capital budgets as a result which means less work (and jobs) for the companies that provide those services.

Encana has also put their proposed split of the company into 2 entities on hold as the current value of the company is less than half what it as in the summer when the plan was first porposed. Divide that in 2 again and you get 2 companies that would have a very difficult time raising money, and would be easy pickings for a larger company to come along and buy the whols shebang.

[boden]

I said 'no' as our financial institutions will not collapse as many have in the US and Europe. Yes, our banks will take a hit and have been given that they have been exposed to this. But we won't experience the same type of crash.

Where we will feel it is via the effects of the recession that will plague the US. We are a commodity-based economy, and as prices fall, so will the growth of those respective industries.

Except gold....;)

I certainly would not count on gold......for some reason, that even the best experts don't understand, gold is sliding off.

[Spring2008]

Here is an article written by one of my professors, Scott Beazley at the U OF A concerning the bailout in the U.S. Very informative and interesting read, highly suggest people at least read the graph at the end of the article.

http://www.uofaweb.ualberta.ca/economics2/pdfs/Econ341A2-F08-Beesley-on-bailout.pdf

[Rumors]

I heard on the radio that Canada is the only G7 country that will not have a recession, but I kind off think its knocking on our back door......do you hear it too? :Titanic:

[vid]

We might not have a recession, but everyone who buys anything from us will, and that will hurt us.