[vid]

Dion set to announce he's stepping down
Les Whittington and Joanna Smith | Toronto Star | October 16, 2008
http://www.thestar.com/federalelection/article/518354

OTTAWA–Devastated by the disappointing showing of his party in the election, Stéphane Dion is expected to announce today that he will step aside as Liberal leader.

Unlike the other party leaders, he made no public appearances yesterday, instead huddling with his family and advisers. Party insiders said he would remain as leader until the Liberals choose a successor.

Dion had been expected to announce in his remarks after the polls closed late Tuesday that he would set in motion a process to allow his party to choose a new leader. But he avoided the subject.

The 26 per cent of the popular vote that the Liberals received on Tuesday is among the worst results the party has ever had. Liberal seats in the House of Commons plummeted to 76 from 95 while the Conservatives strengthened their minority position to 143 seats from 127 at dissolution.

With that record, there was little expectation that Dion would try to hold on to the leadership. "He just can't stay" was a typical assessment from a senior Liberal close to the Dion campaign yesterday.

The party has a biennial convention scheduled in Vancouver in May, where Dion's leadership would face a vote of confidence. Should he step down before then, the Vancouver meeting could be turned into a send-off for Dion and a leadership convention.

Veteran Liberals said Dion, who has never had a strong political organization or powerful backing in the caucus, would be unlikely to survive a leadership review.

It's no secret that Dion – a reserved, unexciting former professor – was a liability for Liberal candidates on voters' doorsteps, and that his Green Shift plan to fight climate change with a carbon tax turned off voters.

"Sometimes in political life ... you make the best efforts and it doesn't show results," said re-elected Vancouver Liberal Ujjal Dosanjh.

"Mr. Dion attempted over the last couple of years to connect with Canadians on the Green Shift or otherwise and ... we came up short," Dosanjh told CBC-TV. But he added that he wasn't taking any position on the current leader's future.

Liberal Jim Karygiannis implied he would like Dion to step down but said the future of his leadership would be up to the Liberal caucus.

"As a caucus we have to see where we went and where we're going and how we go," he said. "The leader also has to decide in his own mind what he wants to do. Is he staying or is he going?

"You don't go from 95 to 76 – you know," he said, trailing off. "It was the worst performance we did in years. ... We're going to have to think about that one."

Karygiannis said the national campaign did nothing to help him get re-elected in the Scarborough-Agincourt riding he has held for 20 years. "There was no message from the national campaign. There was no theme that we've seen and certainly the message from the leader's office was not getting through."

Defeated Nova Scotia Liberal Robert Thibault said the weak national campaign likely had an effect on the traditionally tight race in West Nova, where he lost to Conservative Greg Kerr.

"I was fortunate to win it three times, but the Green Shift was a very, very difficult sell," he said.

Thibault believes Canada will eventually adopt a policy similar to the Green Shift, but, politically, Dion went about it the wrong way.

"He was trying to put it through without proper debate in my mind," Thibault said. "It would have been better to put a green paper forward, tell Canadians: `This is what I'm considering, this is the direction I'd like to go. How do we make this work for you? What are the problems with it?'"

Liberal strategists said Canadians' fears over the economy may have driven voters away from the relatively unknown Dion to Harper, who scores well as an economic manager in opinion surveys.

Insiders said problems with the Green Shift were compounded by Dion's inability to fight effectively the negative attacks that the Conservatives' Stephen Harper launched against the proposal.

One organizer for a Liberal candidate said Dion was a tough sell as a leader because he appeared weak when he repeatedly passed up chances to defeat the Harper government and force an election. The Liberals held back because, under Dion's leadership, polls showed the party was not in a winning position. Senator David Smith, a Liberal campaign co-chair, said it would be wrong for anyone in the party to pressure Dion to step down immediately. He said Dion was in "a period of soul-searching" yesterday.

But supporters of Toronto MPs and leadership aspirants Michael Ignatieff and Bob Rae are unlikely to wait very long to press the issue.

[Wooster]

That must be very tough personally. But, probably the right move for his party.

So, let the leadership speculation begin.

[Aylmer]

Bob Rae.

:)

[Only The Lonely..]

Bob Rae.

:)

Your kidding right? A vote for Bob is probably the surest way to never see a Liberal majority.

I don't think he has any hope of ever winning a single seat in Ontario.

Besides, you probably couldn't find a less charismatic leader than him.

[SteelTown]

Bob Rae I think will be the front runner.

During the election Bob was all over Southern Ontario, he had a safe seat, so his profile has increased.

[MolsonExport]

I'd take Bob Rae over Johnny-come-lately Ignatieff.

Any dark horses out there?
John Manley?
Frank McKenna?

But please, keep Belinda Stronach busy.

[harls]

Justin Trudeau, just to stir things up.

[SteelTown]

What's Bob Rae's French like? Good? Crap?

[Elmira Guy]

But please, keep Belinda Stronach busy.

I will do my part for the people, and volunteer to keep Belinda ... busy. ;)

[MolsonExport]

Justin Trudeau, just to stir things up.

I want him to run, only for the reason of driving Sebastrooper nuts. :haha:

[SteelTown]

I forgot to mention that the traditional leadership convention is history for the Liberal Party.

Now each Liberal memeber can vote with a mail in ballot. Another mail in ballot a week later if no clear winner. Pretty much the same as the Conservative Party.

So I guess they could have the leadership convention quicker than normal.

[Brandon716]

I'm for Gerard Kennedy, he's got a personality connection he can start with. Plus he's fresh.

I think Dion should announce a date to resign, but should remain opposition leader until next spring before the convention in May.

[jeremy_haak]

I like Dion, but I think this is probably the best move. I think the whole deal with Bob Rae and Ontario is played up a bit much. That was a long time ago, and I think most bitterness toward Rae has been largely wiped out by bitterness toward Mike Harris.

[circle33]

Ralph Goodale. Solid record and he'd give the party some western cred. Pretty sure the Ralph has no interest though. That and I think he speaks no French (which would probably augment the western cred come to think of it).

[Wooster]

Now apparently they are denying the reports in the Star that he is set to step down.

[Doug]

He won't step down until the Liberal Party agrees take on the debt, rumoured to be in the range of $650K, that Dion incurred during his leadership run. Normally, this wouldn't be much of an issue, but the Liberals are so deep in the hole that they can't really afford to take on any more debt.

[Jamaican-Phoenix]

I'd take Bob Rae over Johnny-come-lately Ignatieff.

Any dark horses out there?
John Manley?
Frank McKenna?

But please, keep Belinda Stronach busy.

Here's my list of who I'd like to see run...

Scott Brison
Brian Tobin
Ujjal Dosanjh
Bob Rae
Frank McKenna
John Manley

That was in no particular order, by the way. ;)

[Calgarian]

Is Ignatief still around? I thought he waas going to win last time but Dion did.

[Rico Rommheim]

I knew from the get go that Dion was going to fail miserably. Its still a mystery to me why the Liberals chose HIM over Ignatieff. But good riddance, with the departure of that doofus things can start to get better.

I'm for Ignatieff first and Rae second. But unlike Rae, Ignatieff doesn't have the burden of a past record that is still up for debate and Ignatieff is actually quite popular in Quebec, whereas Rae is almost completely unknown.

[SteelTown]

^ Ignatieff does come with baggage, mostly on foreign affairs.

[lubicon]

Bob Rae.

:)

Here's my list of who I'd like to see run...

Scott Brison
Brian Tobin
Ujjal Dosanjh
Bob Rae
Frank McKenna
John Manley

That was in no particular order, by the way. ;)

Bob Rae would be a wet dream for the Conservatives.

I am not a Liberal supporter, but the least objectionable candidate from this list for me would be Frank McKenna. He seems decent enough and doesn't carry much baggage that I know of.

Brison is a definate no for me. Tobin is just a blowhard and a throwback to the Chretien era which this country doesn't need. Manley also has too many ties to Chretien. Bob Rae has too much baggage in Ontario and Dosanjh is just an opportunist who couldn't even win as premier in BC (as an NDP). Too much left wing rhetoric from him. Ignatieff just comes across as a 'know it all' who turns me the wrong way.

[shreddog]

He won't step down until the Liberal Party agrees take on the debt, rumoured to be in the range of $650K, that Dion incurred during his leadership run. Normally, this wouldn't be much of an issue, but the Liberals are so deep in the hole that they can't really afford to take on any more debt.

Another option is for a wealthy supporter of the Libs to offer to buy Dion out after he not only resigns as leader, but leaves politics as the "donation" cannot be politically linked.

BTW, that isn't a rumour, last official number with Elections Canada in September was 650 and change.

[vid]

I'm for Gerard Kennedy, he's got a personality connection he can start with. Plus he's fresh.

I think Dion should announce a date to resign, but should remain opposition leader until next spring before the convention in May.

Kennedy can't speak French, and is a relative unknown outside Ontario. Might not do too well nationally, but who knows?

Dion will be staying as leader of the Opposition until the convention.

I like Dion, but I think this is probably the best move. I think the whole deal with Bob Rae and Ontario is played up a bit much. That was a long time ago, and I think most bitterness toward Rae has been largely wiped out by bitterness toward Mike Harris.

He basically had blinders on, didn't see a coming economic crisis and steered our boat into an ice burg. I don't want a national leader with that on his driving record!!

Ignatieff is more right wing than Harper in many areas. He'd be a very divisive Liberal leader, I can see him doing as much damage (possible more) than Dion has.

[Doug]

Another option is for a wealthy supporter of the Libs to offer to buy Dion out after he not only resigns as leader, but leaves politics as the "donation" cannot be politically linked.

BTW, that isn't a rumour, last official number with Elections Canada in September was 650 and change.

Or one of the typical "Eastern Establishment" types that have had historic ties to the Liberal Party could offer him a job, say Power Corp.

[MolsonExport]

^ Ignatieff does come with baggage, mostly on foreign affairs.

I imagine that he hasn't had the time to unpack them after spending most of his career in the Great Republic.

[Doug]

Bob Rae would be a wet dream for the Conservatives.

I am not a Liberal supporter, but the least objectionable candidate from this list for me would be Frank McKenna. He seems decent enough and doesn't carry much baggage that I know of.

Apparently McKenna is quite the womanizer and has baggage of the Bill Clinton variety.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Brison is a definate no for me.

"Definite," and why?

I like Sheldon Kennedy but wasn't aware that the couldn't speak French... but Brison would be a dream come true (for this Liberal, I mean).

[Wooster]

Dave Bronconnier, mayor of Calgary.

Half joking - but he's a liberal who's ran once and is a popular mayor, might be able to get western Canadians interested in the party again, not sure if he has French though.

[mersar]

Dave Bronconnier, mayor of Calgary.

Half joking - but he's a liberal who's ran once and is a popular mayor, might be able to get western Canadians interested in the party again, not sure if he has French though.

David Taras from U of C who was a commentator during Global's election coverage also threw that name out on Tuesday night. I know that someone had suggested him a while back as someone who could have been a potential runner for the provincial liberals had it not been that he had only been re-elected mayor only a few months prior. Someone else (Kyle?) had pointed out though that Bronco has shifted more to the right since becoming mayor.

[drew]

Kennedy can't speak French, and is a relative unknown outside Ontario. Might not do too well nationally, but who knows?
.

Kennedy I believe was born and raised in The Pas Manitoba.

[lubicon]

"Definite," and why?

I like Sheldon Kennedy but wasn't aware that the couldn't speak French... but Brison would be a dream come true (for this Liberal, I mean).

Brison just doesn't do anything for me. He's been low profile (which isn't bad) but we jsut don't know much about the guy and what he stands for. I just don't see him as a possible PM. It's got absolutely nothing to do with any other issues.

You're mixing up Sheldon Kennedy and Gerrard Kennedy. Sheldon Kennedy is an ex NHL player who is probably mor (in) famous for being the victim of sexual abuse at the hands of his coach in junior hockey. But you are right, I don't think he know's french either.

[salvius]

Dave Bronconnier, mayor of Calgary.

Half joking - but he's a liberal who's ran once and is a popular mayor, might be able to get western Canadians interested in the party again, not sure if he has French though.

I don't think Liberals are counting on much out West, past Vancouver and maybe a small handful of seats elsewhere. The focus is likely to be on Ontario and Quebec.

[lubicon]

I don't think Liberals are counting on much out West, past Vancouver and maybe a small handful of seats elsewhere. The focus is likely to be on Ontario and Quebec.

And that's the trouble with our current political scene in Canada. No party has been able to truly speak to all parts of Canada recently it seems. Instead they focus on winning certain 'core' areas which means ignoring and/or alienating other areas. The more the do this the more fractured the country becomes and the worse off we (as Canadians) are. It might benefit the parties but it hurts the people.

[Doug]

Brison was involved in the insider trading scandal back in 2005 when the Libs said they weren't going to tax income trusts.

[Aylmer]

What's Bob Rae's French like? Good? Crap?

Better than all the others (sauf toi, Gilles!)

:)

[vid]

Kennedy I believe was born and raised in The Pas Manitoba.

I know, but he was most active in Ontario. So, aside from Northern Manitoba and Ontario, where else if he well known? How many people even remember his dad being mayor of The Pas?

[Distill3d]

my vote is for Bob Rae. it just seems he's the only one who shines above the rest.

Trudeau needs to do something, like...change his last name...but it would be awesome to see him in the running. even though he won his seat in a tough fight, i still think he's got daddy's name to run on if nothing else.

Goodale would give the west more interest in voting Liberal, but as stated he's probably not interested in the job or he would've gone for last round.

[Wooster]

I don't think Liberals are counting on much out West, past Vancouver and maybe a small handful of seats elsewhere. The focus is likely to be on Ontario and Quebec.

And even more reason to go to a PR system of some sort. It would FORCE all political parties to pay attention to ALL regions and Provinces in Canada - The NDP and Liberals WOULD gain a number of seats under this system in places like Alberta and Saskatchewan where they have virtually been shut out for quite some time. Not to mention that voter apathy of progressive voters in places like these would be much, much less of a factor (I know tons of people my age that won't bother voting in Alberta because their votes have no chance of counting).

Anyway, that's a bit of an aside from the topic of this thread. But speaks to the point that the Liberal leadership race would likely look a lot different under a different electoral system.

[Doug]

Go Bob Rae! He could probably borrow the Liberal Party in oblivion before he even got a chance to run for PM.

[salvius]

...

[salvius]

Anyway, that's a bit of an aside from the topic of this thread. But speaks to the point that the Liberal leadership race would likely look a lot different under a different electoral system.

Any party race would.

[salvius]

Go Bob Rae! He could probably borrow the Liberal Party in oblivion before he even got a chance to run for PM.

Why do you think this? Bob Rae is far from universally hated in Ontario.

Indeed, most Ontarians look at that period of time more fondly since the reign of Mike Harris (not that that says much). Rae as a leader would not get fewer seats in Ontario than Dion would have; quite the opposite.

[ambiguoustraveller]

While I feel bad for Dion, because I don't think people gave him a chance, it is quite obvious from these results that he needs to go.

I agree with other forumers who are talking about the west. As a Vancouverite it is frustrating that the conservatives speak of themselves as representatives of the west, because they certainly do not speak for me. It seems as if there is an issue with trust here, that westerners of all political backgrounds see the Liberals as easterners who simply do not understand. This seems to be why ridings outside of Vancouver and its inner suburbs are sharply divided between the NDP and the Conservatives, with the Conservatives taking the larger share of seats. I think that if Liberals ever want to gain these seats, and become a national party once more, they need to nominate someone who can do more than just represent Ontario and Quebec.

[cranium]

As a conservative, I am delighted to see this preliminary endorsment of Mr. Rae. I have this crazy notion of joining the Liberal party to help get "our" Bob the nod. As someone mentioned earlier, he is "the conservatives wet dream."

[SteelTown]

I met Bob Rae once at College when he completed his "Rae Report" on post-secondary education for Ontario.

[salvius]

As a conservative, I am delighted to see this preliminary endorsment of Mr. Rae. I have this crazy notion of joining the Liberal party to help get "our" Bob the nod. As someone mentioned earlier, he is "the conservatives wet dream."

Again, I'm not sure I follow... Lackluster performance in Ontario? Is that it?

One could have easily written Harper off as someone who could never win east of Alberta. His position papers during the NCC era would be regarded as quite extreme here. Add the whole firewall idea and then pour strong support for the Iraq war. And yet, and yet half of Ontario went to Conservatives two days ago. Who'd have thought?

[cranium]

Bob Rae would do more to bring out the conservative base in Ontario than any other candidate. A base that Harper has yet to fully capture.

[graupner]

They should convince Jean chrétien to come back.

[trueviking]

i feel really bad for dion...he seems like a genuinely nice man....imagine spending 2 months being told every day that you are a loser....

i wish there was a young energetic guy to step in....old white haired men like rae will not energize the electorate to radically shift gears to the liberals....they need a barrack obama....4 years from now maybe trudeau, but today, i guess kennedy or someone like that....

the liberals need a paradigm shift away from the stodgy old man from quebec...

[Dmajackson]

Being from the Maritimes I have heard quite a bit about Brison, especially around the time he got married. I think he would make a pretty comparable choice to the other options.

Then again whos runner-up for prime minister doesnt matter much to me. All I care about is my local MP, nothing to do with the other fed's.

[canlefty]

They should convince Jean chrétien to come back.

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg