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ScottFromCalgary
10-21-2008, 02:49 AM
Our Adolescent Downtown Plays Show and Tell with the Big Cities

When the urban scientists came to town last month, they poked and prodded, they strolled and moseyed, they listened and spoke. And some even had nice things to say about the much-maligned heart of our city.

Richard White
Calgary Herald


Friday, October 17, 2008


They came, they saw, they liked. That pretty much sums up the reaction of the 750-plus delegates visiting Calgary for the International Downtown Association (IDA) conference Sept. 11 to 14. This surprised me. I was expecting these urban planners, architects, interior designers, downtown association CEOs, marketing and event professionals, and politicians from around the world to be much more critical of our downtown and city centre. After all, these aren't your average conference delegates. They are "urban scientists" who investigate every street, alley, plaza and park of every downtown they visit, looking for the good, the bad and the ugly.

So where does downtown end and the rest of the city begin? When we urban scientists--as the former executive director of the Calgary Downtown Association and a current member of the Calgary Planning Commission, I consider myself to be one of them--talk about "downtown," we mean the Central Business District (CBD), the area where the office buildings, retail stores and hotels far outnumber private residences. In Calgary, think

9th Avenue S.W. to the Bow River. The city centre, on the other hand, is a term used to define a much broader area--Mission in the south to Hillhurst in the north; Inglewood in the east to Sunalta in the west--that includes mixed-use areas within easy walking distance of the CBD. I was expecting my fellow IDA delegates to give me "the dirt" on our downtown and city centre; instead, they gave it a thumbs-up.

The Good

Armed with 15-percent-off coupons from the Bay (these were found in the "swag bags"), a sea of delegates took over 8th Avenue on the Saturday afternoon of the conference. They liked the patios, the restaurants, the shops and the historic buildings, as well as the landscaping decorating the core. For those of you who haven't been downtown lately, the City's Clean to the Core program, started in 2006, includes wonderful flower baskets and planters and an enhanced banner program on lampposts, gates and bridges to market the wide variety of events taking place in Calgary. I overheard a person from Oklahoma City, blissfully unaware of our freak May and August killing frosts, say, "I wish we could grow flowers like here!" Murrieta's, with its live music, and Divino, with its urban ambience spilling out onto Stephen Avenue Walk, seemed to be the most popular restaurants. The Cellar became a must-visit destination once people figured out that high-end wines and single-malt scotch could be had for significantly less here than in other provinces and states. (Because Alberta taxes liquor by the bottle, higher-priced spirits have the same amount of tax as cheaper hooch, a fact appreciated by the out-of-towners.)

There was one aspect of the Walk that created some controversy: the 10, eight-storey steel installations (I see trees; you might see spatulas or, God help us, "pooper scoopers") outside Bankers Hall. Some liked them, others did not, but delegates agreed the sculptures would be much nicer if what they described as the "ugly green bulky boots" were removed from their bases. Seems like a simple thing to do, but more on that later.

I heard many positive comments about Prince's Island, Century Gardens and the river promenade in Eau Claire. And, yes, they raved about how clean our city is. Everyone was impressed with Devonian Gardens, with its more than 20,000 plants, waterfalls, fountains, bridges and sculptures. The one-hectare indoor park was considered a signature urban-development project when it opened in 1977, and the new vision is to integrate it into the urban streetscape under a three-block-long skylight planned for the Plus-30 level of the Core (the rebranded Calgary Eaton Centre/TD Centre). Somehow, it seemed fitting that the last people to see the gardens before they closed were a group of international urban-development professionals.

When I first saw the conference program, I questioned why two major receptions were to be held outside the downtown core--one at Heritage Park and the other at the Calgary Zoo. Perhaps the zoo makes sense; it is only two LRT stops from downtown and is part our expanding city centre, but why would the Calgary Downtown Association (CDA) take the delegates all the way out of the core to Heritage Drive and 14th Street S.W.? It turned out to be a stroke of genius as the CDA, Calgary Stampede and Tourism Calgary treated white-hatted delegates to a mini-rodeo in a magical setting. I had never been to this area of Heritage Park (northeast of the Gunn Barn and Wainwright Hotel), and it was hard not to be dazzled by the mountains silhouetted by the setting sun to the west, two horses grazing on a nearby hill and not a single modern building in sight. I overheard one IDA board member say, "I doubt anyone can ever beat this."

Our city centre is often compared to Denver's, which is considered to be one of the leading downtowns in North America. Its 16th Street Mall is one of the best pedestrian malls in North America and the LoDo (lower downtown) entertainment district, with its sports arena and stadium, is an example of a successful multi-use revitalization project. Denver, like many major cities in North America, is home to iconic public buildings by star architects--Daniel Libeskind's Hamilton Building at the Denver Art Museum and Michael Graves's library. (Norman Foster's Bow building for EnCana will be our version of this.)

Denver's downtown association is, like ours, a recognized leader in researching and developing various revitalization programs. So I was surprised when a Denver delegate told me she prefers Calgary's downtown. She loved the residential developments along the Bow River and Prince's Island, which Denver doesn't have, as well as the juxtaposition of the old and new architecture along Stephen Avenue. She praised the connectivity of our convention centre, hotels, shops, restaurants, theatres, museum and public spaces. Denver's core, she says, is fragmented. I remember going to the IDA Conference in Denver in 2004, and we were all gaga over the 16th Street Mall and other aspects of the city's downtown design. Is it just a case of the grass--or perhaps glass and concrete--being greener on the other side?

I have often thought some Calgarians are too critical of our downtown. No, it's not perfect, but for a city of only one million people, a winter city and one that is still young, it is doing very well. It definitely impressed Michael Edwards, president and CEO of Downtown Pittsburgh. He discovered Calgary's City Centre Plan online and was so impressed he showed it to his board and civic politicians, providing the catalyst for them to commit to creating their own downtown plan. He told me, "You have all the elements of a great downtown--a great skyline, parks, public spaces, pedestrian streets, patios, waterfront, retail, restaurants, offices, retail, museums and plazas."

The Bad and The Ugly

Along with these glowing comments came some negative ones, the most common of which was that the 7th Avenue transit corridor was "butt ugly" and desolate. One delegate called it a "blight in your downtown." Our visitors also pointed out the need for better signage or a way-finding program that would indicate the direction and distance from the core to 4th Street, Uptown 17th, the Design District and Kensington. Many delegates said they were literally stopped in their tracks after turning one block north from Stephen Avenue and feeling stymied by the C-Trains and buses, or going one block south and being confronted by the 9th Avenue auto corridor and the series of ugly underpasses.

One intrepid soul who managed to find his way to Hillhurst Sunnyside asked me if the north side of the Bow River was another city. He thought it must be, because it was all low-slung buildings and private homes, while the south side is among the densest urban areas in North America. This reinforces the NoNoDo (No Development North of Downtown) or NoNoBow (No Development North of the Bow River) movements. It's an astute observation; I could never figure out why the north side of the river was left out of the City's recently approved Centre City Plan. It seems to me the plan should have looked at how to enhance the urbanization of both sides of the river, because the current building boom has bypassed Hillhurst Sunnyside. While I am not in favour of high-rise development everywhere, the Bridges project to the east is a good example of thoughtful urban renewal. The St. John's Church site on 10th Street near the Safeway has sat empty for several years, yet would make a great site for a mixed-used development like Trio in Marda Loop. That said, the 16th Avenue improvements (which seem to have taken forever) have yet to attract the new residential and retail developments that were promised.

But back to the core and our big-city status, which is still somewhat in question. The most embarrassing moment of the conference occurred on Saturday, when a group of New Orleans delegates went out at midnight looking for a bite to eat. Returning to Murrieta's, where they had been the night before, they were told bluntly, "We're full--you'll have to leave and, no, you can't even stand around the bar." They then headed to the Auburn Saloon, having heard it was the local art community's gathering spot. There, they found plenty of seats but when one them innocently asked, "Do you have a nice cab?" the waiter responded, "You can get one just across the street." To top it off, he brought five glasses full of wine and the empty wine bottle to the table. So much for Cowtown becoming more cosmopolitan.

The Sessions

Like most of these gatherings, the IDA conference was a show and tell about what works and what doesn't. Everyone shared their experiences managing various issues, from homelessness to hospitality. There was lots of talk of clean-and-safe programs with catchy names like "Clean to the Core" (Calgary), "Crime and Grime" (Cape Town, South Africa) and "Get Your Butt to the Can," an anti-cigarette littering campaign (Des Moines, Iowa).

There were also several sessions on crime reduction in nightclub districts. The one I liked best was Edmonton's "Bandage or Condom: Which would you rather use tonight?" campaign. As part of the "You're a lover, not a fighter" initiative, young men in clubs along Whyte Avenue were given condoms wrapped in bandages, as well as fortune cookies containing messages such as "Don't water the neighbour's lawn tonight!" in an attempt to curb public urination.

Everyone was there to steal ideas--the IDA conference's motto is "If they can do it, so can we!" So much so that Downtown Dallas won a Downtown Achievement Award this year for their "d-spot" marketing campaign. Sound familiar? Indeed, Downtown Calgary has been using the "d-spot" as its marketing campaign for more than three years. We were the innovators, but Dallas got the award.

I first started going to IDA conferences back in 1995, a session held in Winnipeg where the CDA won a Downtown Achievement Award for its work supporting Child and Youth Friendly Calgary. The premise was that if you made your downtown a safe and attractive place to bring children, it would appeal to everyone. While people are still talking about this concept, the new term I heard this year was "grandma-friendly" downtowns. The rationale is that the zoomers are the ones planning day trips to the art gallery, science centre and children's museum, as well as out-of-town family vacations.

One presenter talked about the need for "grandma-friendly" parking--encouraging developers to design parkades so that seniors would be comfortable with the driving lanes, size of parking stalls and signage. Anyone who has seen the paint left along the pillars in the parkades at Palliser Square and the Telus Convention Centre knows that Calgary has a long way to go in this area. He also talked about the importance of "teaser" parking in front of shops. These spots, such as the free parking in the evenings along Stephen Avenue, are critical to successful street retail.

In the exhibition hall, delegates had fun at the booth set up by Milwaukee, the next host city. (The temporary tattoos and the chance to have a photo taken astride a Harley were big hits.) Milwaukee's slogan? "A lot has changed since Laverne & Shirley left town." Amid the suppliers hawking Christmas-light displays, park benches, banners and decorative clocks (the CDA bought a particularly nice one), my favourite booths were Dr. Gum, where workers demonstrated the new DR 1000S gum-removal machine (essentially a super-duper vacuum cleaner), and the "Big Belly" solar compactors (high-tech garbage cans).

Calgary was well represented in the exhibition hall by CBIZ (the collective representing the city's nine business-improvement districts), the City of Calgary's Animal & Bylaw Services, information on our Clean to the Core and crime-prevention programs, the Calgary Parking Authority and its new solar-powered ParkPlus system, and the University of Calgary's Downtown Campus project.

The Big Idea

One of the highlights of the conference was the Super Keynote Panel discussion--yes, that's what it was called--which looked at the impact of iconic architecture and megaprojects on established urban centres. The panel included six representatives from Calgary and one from the United States and, as you can imagine, the discussion was all about Calgary's megaprojects and our lust for the iconic building.

Todd Hirsch, senior economist with ATB Financial, was very articulate with his comments about the importance of iconic architecture as a marketing tool for cities and how it shapes a city's global identity. This strategy does have pitfalls, as Hirsch made clear by using the example of his visit to the Sydney Opera House, which, as a pedestrian, he found cold and sterile. His "Big Idea" for dramatically changing downtown Calgary would be to remove the CPR tracks and replace them with green space from Edworthy Park to Inglewood. He added that when he was a CPR employee, he had asked senior management why the tracks had not been removed from downtown (as has happened in most major cities). The best answer he got was, "It would be very difficult and inconvenient," which led Hirsch to postulate that maybe we are just "too lazy" to make the tough decisions needed to create a great downtown.

Lance Carlson, president of the Alberta College of Art + Design, shared his observations about how our downtown needs to evolve. He stated that we shouldn't be striving for iconic development, but for iconic experiences that reflect a unique sense of place. He also reminded everyone that Calgary can never go back to being what it was 10 or 25 years ago. You can't, nor would you want to, recreate what once was; a city must keep reinventing itself and be creative--the past is merely a context for the future.

Chris Ollenberger, president and CEO of the Calgary Municipal Land Corporation, was all about "breaking the rules" and developing principles with flexibility, rather than prescriptive policies. His "Big Idea" was to "listen to lawyers for advice, but not always take it, as they kill many creative ideas." I can't begin to tell you how many times I've heard the line that Calgary is a city designed by "lawyers and engineers." Just think of our particular urban blight, the 7th Avenue LRT corridor, which was designed to maximize the functionality of above-ground trains and buses, rather than enhance the experience of people downtown. And I remembered that it was the lawyers and engineers who decreed and designed the "ugly green bulky boots" that were added to the trees on Stephen Avenue to protect the city from liability, without any consideration of the esthetic consequences.

One of the strangest things I overheard came at a coffee break on the first day of the conference when someone said, "Everyone here is young and skinny!" Not a surprising comment given our active, outdoor-oriented population (when Sheryl Crow played the Saddledome recently, she said she'd never seen so many people running on their lunch hour--she added, "You people should all move to the Midwest where everyone is obese and lazy"), but over the weekend the thought that this might be more than a literal observation kept nagging at me.

Then it hit me. Calgary is indeed young and skinny, if you measure it in "city years." I've often thought we should measure urban centres in terms of decades, with 10 human years equalling one city year. This would make Manhattan, purchased by the Dutch in 1626, a relatively mature 38, while Calgary would be 14, just old enough to get its learner's permit.

It was ironic that, at the same time the conference was being held, the City announced it would spend $25 million for the construction of one iconic bridge and the design of another. I couldn't help but see this as another example of how some Calgarians, like many teenagers, think that for something to be good, it has to expensive and come with an impressive brand name.

Our politicians, planners and developers need to look inward, not outward, to understand and create a sense of place that reflects our unique personality. We will all need to celebrate Calgary as a young/winter/western/prairie/mountain/river/corporate/contemporary city. We must be innovative, not imitative, as we find ways to make our city centre even more people-oriented. It is a tremendous challenge, but one that our skinny teenaged city is ready to grow into.

© The Calgary Herald 2008

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/swerve/story.html?id=62a73236-23fe-4e4b-be1b-d5cd13b6f7a1

Bigtime
10-21-2008, 03:20 AM
A really good article, but one thing bugs me... Yet another newspaper writer just couldn't resist finding the room to take yet another shot at the pedestrian bridges.

Western Spaghetti
10-21-2008, 04:17 AM
For the most part a good article. The plusses and negatives were pretty accurate.

I've always felt that the negativity to downtown Calgary isn't fair. People sometimes need to see the core through the eyes of someone from another city. I had some relatives come visit last year from Toronto, and they really liked downtown Calgary. Of course, having me take them to 17th ave, etc.. probably helped. I took them down Stephen Ave during a nice afternoon, and they were amazed. They had no idea Calgary had something like that..

ssiguy
10-21-2008, 08:09 AM
The one problem downtown Calgary has and now can never be corrected is that it's dark.
All the skyscrapers block out almost all the light because they are tall and the streets relativly narrow. The city should never have allowed the taller buildings along Stephen Ave.

BTW, he was right..................ditch those incredibly ugly "things" at the end of the street. When I went to Calgary last I didn't even now what they were for except to make the area look fake and devalue the pedestrian ambiance of Stephen Ave.

If the city wanted to create a wind block why didn't they use the old fashioned esthetically pleasing tried and true method.....use trees.

Wooster
10-21-2008, 01:03 PM
I love the trees. Most visitors I've toured do too. They could take the green footings off though - it would improve things a bit, but they're not as bad as many make them out to be. That whole block has a very interesting ambiance with a pedestrian mall, the large trees, the tall towers and the wide +15,30, bridge that I haven't ever experienced elsewhere. Sill lots of patios and life though.

As a CBD, Calgary's is quite nice in many respects. Like I said in another thread the overall perception of downtown will change as the surrounding mixed use areas fill in and become more vibrant.

ScottFromCalgary
10-21-2008, 03:43 PM
I like the "trees" as well. Better than having nothing there I think. A controversial public art installation isn't exactly unique to Calgary.

Calgarian
10-21-2008, 04:06 PM
Great Article, I was wondering how our downtown would be perceived by those from older bigger, cities. I think the "trees" are kinda cool, especially when they are lit up.

Bigtime
10-21-2008, 05:01 PM
Count me as another person that likes the "trees". I was actually quite surprised that nothing in the article mentioned the reception that our +15 network got from the delegates.

ST1
10-21-2008, 05:09 PM
The one problem downtown Calgary has and now can never be corrected is that it's dark.
All the skyscrapers block out almost all the light because they are tall and the streets relativly narrow. The city should never have allowed the taller buildings along Stephen Ave.

BTW, he was right..................ditch those incredibly ugly "things" at the end of the street. When I went to Calgary last I didn't even now what they were for except to make the area look fake and devalue the pedestrian ambiance of Stephen Ave.

If the city wanted to create a wind block why didn't they use the old fashioned esthetically pleasing tried and true method.....use trees.


I don't see the skyscrapers height being a problem. Stephen Ave is dark in only a one block spot, and during the day, Stephen Ave is as vibrant as any place in North America. Even in the evening when it's dark out, it's still decently busy.

Calgarian
10-21-2008, 08:26 PM
I prefer the sunny parts of Stephen Ave, especially in the winter. I believe the city has shadow restrictions on Stephen Ave now doesn't it?

Doug
10-21-2008, 09:18 PM
I love the trees. Most visitors I've toured do too. They could take the green footings off though - it would improve things a bit, but they're not as bad as many make them out to be. That whole block has a very interesting ambiance with a pedestrian mall, the large trees, the tall towers and the wide +15,30, bridge that I haven't ever experienced elsewhere. Sill lots of patios and life though.

Does anybody know the rationale for painting the bases green? Also, the original plan for the "trees" called for awnings, patio heaters etc. at street level. Why didn't that happen? Finally, what happens to the trees when the 8th Ave subway eventually happens? I am assuming they would need to be removed for cut and cover tunnel construction, but could they be replaced afterwards?

Doug
10-21-2008, 09:21 PM
I prefer the sunny parts of Stephen Ave, especially in the winter. I believe the city has shadow restrictions on Stephen Ave now doesn't it?


It does, but I'm unsure as to which blocks are affected. The Bow is actually closer to 8th Ave than it is to the river, although at Calgary's latititude shadowing is more of a problem to the north of large buildings. I do know that Bankers Hall predates the shadowing bylaw and that Bankers Court was contrained by shadowing concerns.

Doug
10-21-2008, 09:30 PM
The one problem downtown Calgary has and now can never be corrected is that it's dark.

That is an unavoidable consequence of having some of the highest office densities on the North American continent. It is not so much that the streets are narrow. In fact, downtown Calgary has wider than average streets. Moreso the shadowing has to do with large building footprints and the fact that skycrapers are build next to each other as compared to other cities which have shorter (mostly older) buildings mixed in with the skyscrapers.

Wooster
10-21-2008, 09:44 PM
Does anybody know the rationale for painting the bases green? Also, the original plan for the "trees" called for awnings, patio heaters etc. at street level. Why didn't that happen? Finally, what happens to the trees when the 8th Ave subway eventually happens? I am assuming they would need to be removed for cut and cover tunnel construction, but could they be replaced afterwards?

The White article alluded to liability concerns (not sure about what) with regard to the green bases on the trees.

As for what happens with a subway? who knows.

Colin
10-22-2008, 12:05 AM
Does anybody know the rationale for painting the bases green? Also, the original plan for the "trees" called for awnings, patio heaters etc. at street level. Why didn't that happen? Finally, what happens to the trees when the 8th Ave subway eventually happens? I am assuming they would need to be removed for cut and cover tunnel construction, but could they be replaced afterwards?

I remember watching a Global Calgary Inside Out segment about the Stephen Avenue trees and they were interviewing Druh Farrell about the future of the trees. She said they will in fact need to be removed once construction begins on the 8th avenue subway but since she said she said she was never a fan of the trees, that it might be better suited at the COP and placed there instead.

RicoLance21
10-22-2008, 12:40 AM
That is an unavoidable consequence of having some of the highest office densities on the North American continent. It is not so much that the streets are narrow. In fact, downtown Calgary has wider than average streets. Moreso the shadowing has to do with large building footprints and the fact that skycrapers are build next to each other as compared to other cities which have shorter (mostly older) buildings mixed in with the skyscrapers.

Hey at least it's not as dark as New York, Hong Kong, or even Vancouver...

It's the expansive +15/+30 systems that made some places dark, particularly around the current Holt Renfrew store.

jeremy_haak
10-22-2008, 05:58 PM
Todd Hirsch, senior economist with ATB Financial, was very articulate with his comments about the importance of iconic architecture as a marketing tool for cities and how it shapes a city's global identity. This strategy does have pitfalls, as Hirsch made clear by using the example of his visit to the Sydney Opera House, which, as a pedestrian, he found cold and sterile. His "Big Idea" for dramatically changing downtown Calgary would be to remove the CPR tracks and replace them with green space from Edworthy Park to Inglewood. He added that when he was a CPR employee, he had asked senior management why the tracks had not been removed from downtown (as has happened in most major cities). The best answer he got was, "It would be very difficult and inconvenient," which led Hirsch to postulate that maybe we are just "too lazy" to make the tough decisions needed to create a great downtown.

I have mixed feelings on this. The rail infrastructure could prove to be invaluable in the future when Calgary is even more expansive and commuter rail becomes a serious consideration. I know in the case of Ottawa, several problems could be addressed if rail still went downtown and commuter rail could easily be implemented. On the other hand, that would come at the cost of having unsightly rail lines along the canal. If they can be tolerated, I say leave them be.

It seems the occassion was quite successful for Calgary. I look forward to visiting myself in November.

Calgarian
10-22-2008, 06:08 PM
The White article alluded to liability concerns (not sure about what) with regard to the green bases on the trees.

As for what happens with a subway? who knows.

The liability is probably due to a tripping hazard or something, does anyone have a picture of the trees before they put the base on it?

Calgarian
10-22-2008, 06:17 PM
It does, but I'm unsure as to which blocks are affected. The Bow is actually closer to 8th Ave than it is to the river, although at Calgary's latititude shadowing is more of a problem to the north of large buildings. I do know that Bankers Hall predates the shadowing bylaw and that Bankers Court was contrained by shadowing concerns.

The shadow bylaw would just apply to the Stephen Ave mall (2nd St Se to 3rd St SW) not all of 8th Ave. The Bow wouldn't be any concern as it is to the north and won't cast a shadow on Stephen Ave.

freeweed
10-22-2008, 08:02 PM
The "trees" also act as a windbreak, or so is my understanding.

Remove them, and Stephen Ave turns into a wind tunnel.

Unless this is all just an urban myth.

lubicon
10-22-2008, 09:11 PM
The liability is probably due to a tripping hazard or something, does anyone have a picture of the trees before they put the base on it?

I didn't realize they had bases now, how long ago did they do that? Maybe they put them on to 'discourage' or at least make an attempt to discourage people from climbing them, and the subsequent liability when these same people fell off??

Calgarian
10-22-2008, 09:30 PM
The "trees" also act as a windbreak, or so is my understanding.

Remove them, and Stephen Ave turns into a wind tunnel.

Unless this is all just an urban myth.

There was a show on them on Access (does that channel still exist?) a few years ago and they did lots of water current tests and wind tunnel tests and it showed how effective those trees really are. I think it was called the snow eater or something (I believe that is what Chinook means in Blackfoot or whatever nation they took it from).

Calgarian
10-22-2008, 09:30 PM
I didn't realize they had bases now, how long ago did they do that? Maybe they put them on to 'discourage' or at least make an attempt to discourage people from climbing them, and the subsequent liability when these same people fell off??

Not sure, I can't remember what they looked like before.

SubwayRev
10-23-2008, 01:10 AM
I have mixed feelings on this. The rail infrastructure could prove to be invaluable in the future when Calgary is even more expansive and commuter rail becomes a serious consideration. I know in the case of Ottawa, several problems could be addressed if rail still went downtown and commuter rail could easily be implemented. On the other hand, that would come at the cost of having unsightly rail lines along the canal. If they can be tolerated, I say leave them be.

It seems the occassion was quite successful for Calgary. I look forward to visiting myself in November.

That's a great point...if the rail is removed, it would be very difficult to implement any kind of commuter rail in the future, as you wouldn't really be able to get that close to the core without tunneling.

A much less expensive alternative would be a "beautification" project around the rail. As to what that would entail...I've got no idea.

twsnagel
10-23-2008, 04:20 AM
That's a great point...if the rail is removed, it would be very difficult to implement any kind of commuter rail in the future, as you wouldn't really be able to get that close to the core without tunneling.

A much less expensive alternative would be a "beautification" project around the rail. As to what that would entail...I've got no idea.

A railway can be made quite beautiful. I can't find my photos of it right now, but the waterfront in Montreal retains the train tracks between downtown and the river, but they run through a beautiful park now.

Wish I could find those photos.

sim
10-23-2008, 09:17 PM
Has anyone here heard of the Stuttgart 21 project? Well it is basically a project that has at least a couple similarities to what removing the tracks in Calgary would entail.

If you are interested:

http://www.stuttgart21.de/site/stuttgart21/de/projekt/infomaterial/infomaterial.html

Has some information but it is all in German. I can't find too much on it in English that gives any real detail.

Essentially, the project is to take the existing train station which is a enter-exist station make it a "drive-through" station (not sure if we have this kind of terminology and put all the tracks underground. Not to mention the fact that it would involve realigning the about 14 underground subway lines that currently run underneath the station. I think latest cost estimates are at something like 8 billion euro, but I was told that it might be more like 20...

The perks- turning the existing space for tracks into more park and developments, and cutting travel times by 30 min to an hour.

lineman
04-18-2009, 07:45 PM
I had always remembered those bases being there, just that they were at first white. I don't know why they were painted green. :shrug:

ssiguy
05-21-2009, 10:19 AM
As Calgary will be getting more lines into downtown I hope the city has the vision to bite the bullet on the subway and make it two levels like in parts of the Bloor Line in Toronto.
It would make transfers easy and get rid of the LRT cars downtown once and for all. Once they finally get the North and SW lines up and going there will be 6 lines going downtown. The current 4 could do a regular subway but when the 2 others finally get downtown it will be just as big a mess as it is now.

ssiguy
05-21-2009, 10:36 AM
Should have mentioned...............I went to the Calgary Communies profiles for the census of 2008. It has stated that the population of both the Beltline and Downtown haven't been growing at all. I know some of it is due to changing demographis but all the same you would think with all the condos going up the population would be rising as well. What gives?

Wooster
05-21-2009, 01:56 PM
The population of Beltline between 2006 and 2007 grew by about 1100 due to projects like Sasso, Chocolate, Vantage Pointe, Stella and others finishing in that timeframe. 2007-2008 only grew marginally, but that largely had to do with the timing of completion of a lot of condo projects in this cycle (a lot was in progress but not completed during that year).

There were a number of projects finished in 2008 and early 2009 (Colours, Nova, Vetro, Castello, Xenex etc) that propably will push that 1 year growth number up again towards 700-1000 new residents.

I'd expect 2009-2010 also to see quite a bit of growth with projects like Nuera, Union Square, Keynote finishing up.



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