[Wheelingman04]

I was wondering what suburbs have the best downtown districts, urban fabric and which ones that are revitalizing to become urban examples for other cities around the country. I am also interested in suburbs with commuter rail.

Hoboken and Jersey city are good examples of great urban areas. Newark has a great downtown, but large areas of the city are suffering with crime and abandonment. Any info on that city? Other than these cities I would like to learn more about North Jersey suburbs.

Thanks for the comments.:tup:

[Crawford]

There are tons in North and Central Jersey. There's no clear boundary between the two areas, so I'll just throw them all in play...

I would divide it into three classifications:

1. Towns that are basically an extension of NYC: across the river, immigrant or gentrified, and similar to the Outer Boroughs

2. Working class downtowns: Older cities that were independent centers before suburbanization and often have many immigrants

3. Railroad suburbs: Generally wealthy commuter bedroom towns

Some of the more prominent examples (outside of your previous examples):

Extension of NYC ("Sixth Borough"):
Fort Lee
Cliffside Park
Edgewater
Palisades Park
North Bergen
West New York
Union City
Weehawken
Harrison
Bayonne

Working Class downtowns (bigger, older cities):
Paterson
Passaic
Clifton
Rutherford
Irvington
Elizabeth
Plainfield
Perth Amboy
Long Branch

Railroad suburbs (usually leafy and wealthier)
Ridgewood
Montclair
South Orange
Maplewood
Englewood
Summit
Madison
Westfield
Princeton
Red Bank

There's also Morristown, Hackensack and New Brunswick.

They're somewhere in between the working class downtowns and the bedroom railroad suburbs. They have lots of yuppies and suburban types, but also lots of immigrants and working class, and have big-city downtowns with real skylines.

I guess Morristown, Hackensack and New Brunswick are closest to urban "edge city" places like White Plains, New Rochelle and Stamford.

[arbeiter]

Crawford pretty much covered it. Although I think Morristown is more of a railroad suburb. Morristown has few multi-family dwellings and more houses as a percentage than the other two. Oh, and Jersey City needs to be on the list ;)

[Dan Denson]

Where would Ramsey fall into this discussion? I spent a lot of time there as a teenager and remember it being close to Ridgewood, and pretty affluent.

[Shawn]

One of my best friends grew up in Washington Township, in Bergen County (just west of Westwood). I really liked that whole area - it feels quite similar to areas of Brookline and Newton, Mass.

Also, Paramus has a real Rt 9, Framingham/Natick, Mass feel to it, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Chain after chain after chain of all kinds.

[Crawford]

Also, Paramus has a real Rt 9, Framingham/Natick, Mass feel to it, which isn't necessarily a good thing. Chain after chain after chain of all kinds.

Paramus has the highest rents and retail sales of any suburban corridor in the nation.

It's ghastly but wildly successful. Four major malls, and basically every chain in the U.S. (including many of the top grossing locations).

[Lecom]

Some smaller towns seem to have rather interesting and lively city cores as well, whether in the form of "downtowns" or other urban neighborhoods.

Examples off the top of my head in Bergen County, NJ:
Hackensack - walkable and urban, though seedy, central area
Englewood - gentrified, pedestrian-oriented city core surrounded by pre-suburban housing stock
Fort Lee - vibrant, mostly ethnic, urban pockets throughout the city
Fair Lawn - walkable, pedestrian-friendly areas around River Road and Radburn

there are more similar locations dispersed across the county

[Evergrey]

what are your opinions of Lake Hopatcong?

[Thundertubs]

Crawford did a good job covering the basics.

I'm originally from the Westwood area of northern Bergen County. It's got a great downtown built around the commuter rail station. The downtown (and others nearby like Hillsdale) are very lively and have plenty of retail, most of which is non-chain. Pizzarias, camera shops, hardware stores, etc... I'm impressed that the downtowns are so vibrant in the face of Rt. 17 (endless shopping corridor from Ramsey down through Paramus) and all the malls. The strong train commuting culture has a lot to do with it. My parents used to get off the train, maybe pick up the drycleaning, and ride their bikes home.

Growing up in the suburbs for me had nothing to do with the scorched earth/treeless/cookie cutter mindless spawl. My relatives from the Midwest were always impressed with how lush and green NJ is. People tend to think Jersey is either mindless sprawl or purely industrial and all concrete (people in my office here in NH make comments like "They have trees in New Jersey?" and they're almost not kidding.)

It's becoming a dreadfully expensive place to live, but I have nothing but positive things to say about growing up in North Jersey.

I will try my darndest to get photos of Hackensack and maybe Westwood and other places while home for Xmas.

[Jersey Mentality]

I loved living in North Jersey, alot more then here in the Chicago area. Crawford covered most of it. He did break down the towns in nice criteria but I must say that the vast majority of the cities in North Jersey were old historic centers which many became to be bedroom suburbs of New York. My hometown (Plainfield) for instance was founded in 1685. Many other towns around me are that old or older. Newark for example was founded in 1666. So these are very historic towns. A couple larger towns were left out the list like Perth Amboy. But as a whole I think North Jersey has some of the best collection of towns in the nation especially for such a small state. When they had the full list of the best or most livable towns in America only California had more cities nominated then Jersey. They both were the only states with over 100 cities nominated but Haddonfield, NJ took the award for the most livable, but that's in South Jersey

[NYguy]

I loved living in North Jersey, alot more then here in the Chicago area. Crawford covered most of it. He did break down the towns in nice criteria but I must say that the vast majority of the cities in North Jersey were old historic centers which many became to be bedroom suburbs of New York. My hometown (Plainfield) for instance was founded in 1685.

Plainfield was once planned to be the terminus of the PATH system, although the Raritan Valley line runs through. Even though northern New Jersey has a reputation based on its urban centers like Newark, Jersey City, Paterson, etc. it is mostly suburban in nature. But over the past few years the state has taken the "bedroom" approach to growth, pushing for towns to develop areas around existing train stations, and that has been happening. Even Newark, which has the best public transportation system in the state, is seeing large developments spring up around transit centers (http://www.pr-inside.com/tucker-development-corporation-reveals-final-r796069.htm)

http://www.pr-inside.com/images/pics/166358-tucker-development-corporation-reveals.jpg

[Scruffy]

I was driving aimlessly for a couple hours a while ago and came upon Paterson. The domes from the highway were interesting so i parked downtown and walked around and it was fascinating. That is such an undiscovered gem of old but strong architecture, inner city decay, and so much character. I fell in love. i keep saying im going to film a movie there.

[Thundertubs]

^^^ The Hurricane (Denzel Washington), and Stand And Deliver were both filmed in and take place in Paterson (true stories, also).

It's a ridiculously awesome city, and has been one of my favorite places since I 'discovered' it about ten years ago. I'll have some old photos up soon after I scan them. They're not great, but fairly interesting.

[tdawg]

Having spent last weekend in Greenport, NY on the North Fork and the previous weekend in Fairfield, CT, I would love to see threads on the city's charming Connecticut suburbs and Long Island's idyllic fishing villages. This city has the most beautiful suburbs in the country, save maybe Boston.

[Tymel]

As a Long Islander we all know that Long Island is wayyyy better than New Jersey. But I may be biased.

Some nice Long Island suburbs:
- Huntington
- Rockville Centre
- Long Beach
- Port Jefferson
- Port Washington
- Great Neck
- Lynbrook


But New Jersey is nice too, I could live in both of these places happily.

[Echo Park]

How far is Hoboken from Manhattan and how long would it take to get there using public transit? Is there rail from Hoboken to Manhattan? Is Hoboken as cool to live in as it would to live in, say, Brooklyn?

[Tymel]

How far is Hoboken from Manhattan and how long would it take to get there using public transit? Is there rail from Hoboken to Manhattan? Is Hoboken as cool to live in as it would to live in, say, Brooklyn?

I'm pretty sure Hoboken is one stop on the PATH away from Manhattan. Its just as trendy as Brooklyn.

[Crawford]

How far is Hoboken from Manhattan and how long would it take to get there using public transit?

One subway stop from Manhattan.

Is there rail from Hoboken to Manhattan?

PATH subway. You could also take a bus or ferry.

Is Hoboken as cool to live in as it would to live in, say, Brooklyn?

Hoboken is different than Brooklyn. Has a completely different vibe. They're both great places, but I would say they attract different types of people.

[Thundertubs]

It should also be noted that you can get virtually anywhere in North Jersey from Hoboken by commuter rail. It is the epicenter of the very extensive North Jersey rail network. The PATH train (a standard subway) connects Hoboken with Midtown, Greenwich Village, the Lower Manhattan, Jersey City, and Newark. The new Hudson-Bergen light rail connects Hoboken with Jersey City and Bayonne to the south, and Union City and points north. There are plans to extend it into Bergen County, but I don't know the details.

[Chico Loco]

Crawford pretty much covered it. Although I think Morristown is more of a railroad suburb. Morristown has few multi-family dwellings and more houses as a percentage than the other two. Oh, and Jersey City needs to be on the list ;)

Morristown has a lot of multi-family housing, a vibrant downtown, one of the best nightlife scenes in the state, and almost 20,000 people in less than 3 square miles.

There are several large development projects in progress.

It is a densely-populated regional urban center that has a lot going on.

[Wheelingman04]

Is it fair to say most northern and central New Jersey cities have character,(historic with and nice downtown areas, not just horrible sprawl)?

What is New Brunswick, New Jersey like?

[Thundertubs]

You have to get out to Central Jersey or inland Ocean County to find real mindless sprawl. Most of the low density areas of North Jersey are old and forested, so they don't have the scorched-earth brand new suburb feel, not even close. Places like Dover Township and Brick Township have that kind of stuff. The northwestern part of the metro area is hemmed in by the NJ Highlands (Appalachian foothills), so it doesn't sprawl that much.

This is northwestern Passaic County, maybe 15-20 miles NW of Paterson.
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/fraz11nj/IMG_3493.jpg
-
New Brunswick is most famous as home to Rutgers University (essentially the University Of New Jersey, but it was charted before NJ was a state), and Johnson&Johnson. The area is the center of the nation's pharmaceutical industry. New Brunswick doesn't have a classic 'college town' feel, but more a gritty inner city vibe and can be rundown in places. It's fairly urban, and has a real downtown. It had a very active punk scene in the 90's (Bouncing Souls, Lifetime, Thursday, dozens others). I'd say it has one of the best local music scenes in Jersey. The Melody Bar was a kickass dive bar/punk venue that closed ~2000 because the hospital needed more parking.:yuck:
Oh, it has a huge hospital too.

NB from the air:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/fraz11nj/NY%20Air/72.jpg

The newly constructed tallest:
http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj282/fraz11nj/NY%20Air/59.jpg

I've always felt New Brunswick to be of the fringe of the New York metro. Once you get south of town it feels solidly Central Jersey, and no longer North Jersey.
-
This is a great thread we've got going!

[Wheelingman04]

^ I appreciate the info and pictures.:yes:
This spring or summer I am planning on staying near New Brunswick and riding the commuter train into NYC. Would that be a good idea?

[Jersey Mentality]

New Brunswick is a nice town, in my opinion the only real college town in NJ. I heard NJ exports more college students by far then any other state. For a state as old and as large as ours in population we dont have a whole lot of colleges and universities. But as far as sprawl you wont find too much of that in North Jersey as someone stated earlier.

I think it was you NY Guy who mentioned that alot of North Jersey is suburban, but alot of it doesnt have that feel. Many areas especially in Essex County still have that historic New England feel. That area didnt become suburbanization until they finished 287 and pushed I-78 through the Watchung Mts. When they finished those two in the 80s when I was moving out there, thats when alot of newer development started and newer homes were being built in the hills just off U.S. 22.

But I never new that the original plans for PATH extended to Plainfield, that would've been great had they built it. But Plainfield does have a few stops on a NJ Transit Line. Plainfield was a nice town though. Six historic housing districts on the National Register, so it has a very nice colonial housing stock. I lived in a home probably built in the 30s or 40s. The trees we had were huge. You couldnt even see the sky in our neighborhood, literally, thats how big the trees were.

[Thundertubs]

^^^ That would work fine (wheelingman's train idea) It will be a neat train ride as well.
-
Another thing I'll add about New Brunswick is that although the population is only arund 50,000, the city neighborhoods continue into Highland park (across the river), Somerset, and North Brunswick. It looks, feels, and acts more like a city of 100,000 to 120,000.
The large suburb of Edison, just north of the river (formerly Menlo Park, home of Thomas Edisons' laboratories), and surrounding suburbs like Iselin and Woodbridge are the center of NJ's very large Indian population.
New Brunswick has a fairly even black/white/Hispanic split.

[Jersey Mentality]

Thanx for the pics thundertubs, that first pic most would think the last place that could be is Jersey.

[Thundertubs]

Thanx for the pics thundertubs, that first pic most would think the last place that could be is Jersey.

I know, My officemates here in NH cannot fathom the concept that there are natural areas in NJ; Do they think it's' solid concrete out the the Pennsylvania border?

New Brunswick is a nice town, in my opinion the only real college town in NJ. I heard NJ exports more college students by far then any other state. .

Princeton is the real classic college town in NJ, on par with any in New England. Someone (xzmattzx?) did a great tour of it a while back. You're right, though. After Princeton and New Brunswick there are no real college towns in NJ. Newark has a surprising amount of students (a lot of them commuters, but that is changing with the construction of new dorms), but is too big to be a real college town.
New Jersey is such a big exporter of college students because we have some of the best schools in the country (although some of the worst in the major urban areas). NJ spends a lot of money on education.

[Wheelingman04]

Thanks for the info, guys.:yes:

[Wheelingman04]

Is there a lot of development in the mountains or are they too steep?

[Jersey Mentality]

Is there a lot of development in the mountains or are they too steep?

In the Watching Mountains near my old house they started building homes in the late 90s and early 2000s. They were much larger and expensive homes. This could be due to the fact that most of the lower lying areas were built out and with real estate going up so much during that time it may have made this land not as suitable for development worth alot more. The houses are nice I like them dont get me wrong but in the winter with icy conditions I dont want a driveway or street at a 20 or 30 percent incline.

[dchan]

^^^ The Hurricane (Denzel Washington), and Stand And Deliver were both filmed in and take place in Paterson (true stories, also).

I always thought Stand and Deliver took place around LA and Southern California.

[DeBaliviere]

I heard NJ exports more college students by far then any other state. For a state as old and as large as ours in population we dont have a whole lot of colleges and universities.

It's funny you mention that. That thought occurred to me while watching a Rutgers game on TV recently.

Aside from Rutgers, what other state schools does New Jersey have?

[Thundertubs]

I always thought Stand and Deliver took place around LA and Southern California.

I'm sorry, you're right. I was thinking of Lean On Me, with Morgan Freeman. He played Joe Clark, a real-life principal at Paterson's Eastside High.

[Thundertubs]

It's funny you mention that. That thought occurred to me while watching a Rutgers game on TV recently.

Aside from Rutgers, what other state schools does New Jersey have?

Rutgers-Newark - 12,500
Rutgers-Camden - 5,000
Rowan University (formerly Glassboro State) - 10,000
The College of New Jersey (formerly Trenton State) - 7,000. Excellent school.
Montclair State - 16,700
Kean University - 11,000 (Union Township, just outside Elizabeth)
University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey - 5,700 - place where AIDS was first diagnosed in infants.
New Jersey City University - 8,300 (commuter school in Jersey City)
Richard Stockton College - 7,000
Ramapo College - 6,000

NJ schools aren't very active on the national scene athletically (aside from Rutgers' recent rise). That's how most people know about colleges (which is a little sad).

[Marv95]

I wish people would stop comparing Hoboken with larger areas like Brooklyn, JC, Newark, Paterson, etc. Hoboken is tiny. Not Essex Fells tiny, but you get the point. It's basically an extension of NYC along with JC(Newport) and maybe Bayonne.

[dchan]

I'm sorry, you're right. I was thinking of Lean On Me, with Morgan Freeman. He played Joe Clark, a real-life principal at Paterson's Eastside High.

Ah yes, that's right. Both Lean on Me and Stand and Deliver are great movies.

"Free Mr. Clark! Free Mr. Clark!"

[nygirl1]

How far is Hoboken from Manhattan and how long would it take to get there using public transit? Is there rail from Hoboken to Manhattan? Is Hoboken as cool to live in as it would to live in, say, Brooklyn?

I would liken Hoboken to the BoCoCa area south of Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. Hoboken is just as dense as this portion of Brooklyn and has those endless row homes similar as well. Washington Avenue, IMO, is like a spitting image of Atlantic Avenue.

Other areas of Hudson County that resemble a great deal of Brooklyn are; Union City, Weehawken, West New York, Van Vorst Park(JC), Paulus Hook(JC), Harismus Cove/Old Downtown(JC), Bergen Hill (JC), Bayonne.

Greenville(JC),Lincoln Park (JC), Jersey City's West Side, The Heights, Western Slope all feel like Queens neighborhoods along the East River, to me. Leonia, Ridgewood, and Cliffside Heights feel like neighborhoods further east in Queens. Fort Lee has its own vibe unlike either borough as do the neighborhoods of Edgewater, and Englewood cliffs.

[Evergrey]

what are your opinions of Lake Hopatcong?

:previous:

[Jersey Mentality]

I wish people would stop comparing Hoboken with larger areas like Brooklyn, JC, Newark, Paterson, etc. Hoboken is tiny. Not Essex Fells tiny, but you get the point. It's basically an extension of NYC along with JC(Newport) and maybe Bayonne.

When your talking about density and neighborhood aesthetics they are very comparable. The size of imaginary civic lines shouldn't be the only tool of comparison.

[Jersey Mentality]

Rutgers-Newark - 12,500
Rutgers-Camden - 5,000
Rowan University (formerly Glassboro State) - 10,000
The College of New Jersey (formerly Trenton State) - 7,000. Excellent school.
Montclair State - 16,700
Kean University - 11,000 (Union Township, just outside Elizabeth)
University of Medicine & Dentistry of New Jersey - 5,700 - place where AIDS was first diagnosed in infants.
New Jersey City University - 8,300 (commuter school in Jersey City)
Richard Stockton College - 7,000
Ramapo College - 6,000

NJ schools aren't very active on the national scene athletically (aside from Rutgers' recent rise). That's how most people know about colleges (which is a little sad).

Yeah for a state of close to 8 million people our state college system is rather small.

[Casa101]

That's the problem with Jersey. You can say that statement for just about anything. For a state of 8 million people, we don't have our own metro...we always get lumped into NYC or Philly. Jersey lacks an identity that the whole state can rally around. Jersey City and Hoboken are extensions of NYC. And there is so much animosity and fear towards Newark.