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View Full Version : Homeowner denial: *My* home is gaining value



James Bond Agent 007
11-11-2008, 01:55 AM
It's simultaneously sad but also funny reading how stupid people can be.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27648884/

Homeowner denial: My home is gaining value
Realtors struggle to convince people that their home price has fallen, too

The housing market may have gone bust, but many homeowners are still living in a bubble.

Despite dismal housing headlines and reports showing falling prices nationwide, owners in some once-hot areas still believe their home is gaining value or at least holding its own. And by hanging onto too-high expectations, sellers are unwittingly keeping the market from finding a bottom.

Real estate professionals across the country are reporting difficulty convincing sellers the true market value of their homes.

"It's like pulling teeth in this market," said Twyla Rist of Reece & Nichols Realtors in Kansas City, where prices are off between 7 percent and 15 percent. "Even with everything being said, you still have people that think my house is better than everybody else's."

A recent Coldwell Banker report showed that more than three-quarters of its real estate agents surveyed said most sellers have unrealistic initial listing prices for their homes.

Likewise, an unscientific study released last week by real-estate Web site Zillow.com found that half of homeowners polled think their home's price has increased or stayed the same in the past year.

"We expected people to get a little more in touch with reality especially over the summer, because you couldn't turn on the TV or read the newspapers without seeing that home prices are falling," said Amy Bohutinsky, a spokeswoman for Zillow.com. "It was very surprising to see this kind of disconnect."

In fact, the median sales price of an existing home dropped 9 percent to $191,600 in September from a year ago, according to the National Association of Realtors.

It took John Cicero and his wife an appraisal, some convincing by their real estate agent and some hard-to-swallow facts to get them to lower the $525,000 listing price on their five-bedroom home in Valrico, Fla. They closed two weeks ago for about $380,000.

"We didn't really understand the severity of the market," Cicero said. "We lost close to $100,000 in equity so we were walking away from real money."

They built the stucco home four years ago for $380,000 and poured more than $80,000 into it, putting in hardwood floors, granite countertops, ceiling fans, blinds, drapes and a built-in surround-sound stereo system. They also expanded the deck by the pool, turning it into what Cicero called an "executive entertainment area."

"You think you have this wonderful home and people will want to buy it," he said, "but you're wrong."

Dan Ariely, a behavioral Economics professor at Duke University's Fuqua School of Business and author of "Predictably Irrational," said the "better-than-average" effect is at play. And knowing your next-door neighbors sold their house for $500,000 makes it even more imperative for a homeowner to top that price.

"We feel that we're better than other people. We're unique. We're special," he said. "It stands to reason that our houses are also special."

The attachment to a house only intensifies the more a homeowner personalizes it, creating an extension of themselves.

"The moment we invest in something, we fall in love with it," Ariely said, which applies to something as sentimental as children or as trivial as origami.

That puts real estate agents in a precarious position of pricing a house to sell, but not insulting the homeowner by recommending a lower asking price. To a homeowner, a low, but realistic, listing price is "like someone calling your kids ugly," Ariely said with a laugh.

Nancy Batchelor, a real estate agent at Esslinger Woooten & Maxwell Realtors in Miami, says she usually agrees to list the owner's asking price as long as they can reevaluate the price in 30 days if the house doesn't sell.

"I would like to believe their house is different, but I also don't want to do them a disservice," Batchelor said.

Joni Herndon, an appraiser in Tampa, Fla., said real estate agents are calling her in to help homeowners grasp the reality of their home's value. Herndon frequently fields questions from disappointed homeowners after an appraisal, and has to explain how broadly the market is declining and why what a neighbor got two months before for his house doesn't apply anymore.

"But sometimes you just can't get through to people," she said.

She said homeowners who bought newly built homes at the height of the boom are the most stubborn because they're trying to get back every penny they spent on customized changes.

One homeowner Herndon did an appraisal for refused to lower her listing price for the third time, insisting that such features like a raised roof and more space between two windows in an upstairs bonus room set her house apart from others just like it.

"It's the mine is better than yours mentality," Herndon said.

The homeowner originally asked the builder to move the windows another foot apart and raise the roof by 12 inches so the wall could fit her big-screen television. She also spent $15,000 in extra landscaping and exterior lighting, and $2,900 on designer fans, Herndon said.

"You could have put $1,000 worth of fans in the house and blown just as much air," Herndon said. "Owners are very concerned about how much they paid for particular changes, but buyers out there don't value them."

Herndon appraised the house, also in Valrico, Fla., at $430,000. The seller put it on the market in April at $500,000, and cut the asking price to $469,5000 in July. The home is still on the market, and the seller declined to be interviewed.

The market would bottom out sooner if sellers weren't so stubborn and didn't keep prices artificially high, Arielly said.

MolsonExport
11-11-2008, 12:27 PM
I find it very difficult to relate to people that have an "executive entertainment area" in their backyard.

WilliamTheArtist
11-11-2008, 02:04 PM
I know, I only have a "business class entertainment area" in mine.

Top Of The Park
11-11-2008, 02:57 PM
I have a "george foreman grill" sitting on top of a cardboard box on a deck covered by rotting "astroturf"!

statler
11-11-2008, 03:23 PM
Cardboard box!?!

Oh, what I wouldn't give for a cardboard box.

You lucky bastard.

mhays
11-11-2008, 04:13 PM
I just moved, and I'm astonishingly rich with cardboard boxes. I mean, not to brag or anything. Note to self: good move buying those collapsable file boxes with the handles and lids!

krudmonk
11-11-2008, 05:41 PM
As an appraiser, I deal with this a lot. They always point out fluff things like their new faucets and such.

ocman
11-12-2008, 06:41 AM
I find it very difficult to relate to people that have an "executive entertainment area" in their backyard.

That just means they have some patio chairs and a built in grill.

BTinSF
11-12-2008, 06:59 AM
My home has 2 "executive entertainment areas" similar to this one:

http://www.treehugger.com/toilet-llqq-001.jpg
Source: http://www.treehugger.com/toilet-llqq-001.jpg

MolsonExport
11-12-2008, 12:48 PM
My home has 2 "executive entertainment areas" similar to this one:

http://www.treehugger.com/toilet-llqq-001.jpg
Source: http://www.treehugger.com/toilet-llqq-001.jpg

^thanks for that; I know feel richer as I also have two of such areas. Double yer pleasure.

initiald
11-13-2008, 01:50 PM
It's so funny when people whine "Bu-bu-but my house is worth so much more than that!"

NO. Your house is worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Dan Denson
11-13-2008, 03:56 PM
It's so funny when people whine "Bu-bu-but my house is worth so much more than that!"

NO. Your house is worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay for it.

Yeah...I'm constantly seeing ads for "Priced Below Market!", which has no meaning since market value is what you can get for the house.

alexjon
11-13-2008, 04:24 PM
The flip-side is aggressive buyers paying above a neighborhood's average so they can buy something at the bottom of the market at a competitive price that is still below what it may be in a few years. Folks can get pretty rude, especially when dealing with the elderly like my grandmother.

DruidCity
11-14-2008, 01:05 AM
NO. Your house is worth exactly what somebody is willing to pay for it.

One of the things pissing off and confusing some of these property owners is that they're getting taxed based on appraised values much higher than their property is actually worth. In many cases, property tax appraisals have continued to increase at the same time that the real property values have continued to decrease.

MolsonExport
11-14-2008, 02:32 AM
^yep. this appears to be happening here in London Ontario.

mersar
11-14-2008, 02:37 AM
One of the things pissing off and confusing some of these property owners is that they're getting taxed based on appraised values much higher than their property is actually worth. In many cases, property tax appraisals have continued to increase at the same time that the real property values have continued to decrease.

Or when the appraised value used for this years taxes is what it was appraised at half way through the previous year, like they do around here. Of course it wasn't confusing when prices were still rising though.

bryson662001
11-14-2008, 12:32 PM
But what do you do if you live in a part of the country where prices are stable and you really do have the best house on the block? The realtor just want's to make a sale and the lower your price the easier his job is. Also all buyers will expect a discount no matter the asking price because it is a "buyers market"

DecoJim
11-14-2008, 06:34 PM
One of the things pissing off and confusing some of these property owners is that they're getting taxed based on appraised values much higher than their property is actually worth. In many cases, property tax appraisals have continued to increase at the same time that the real property values have continued to decrease.

Some states including California and Michigan limit the rate at which taxable values can rise each year so they fell way behind assessed values during the boom. Now that the bust has begun, they can still raise taxable value since it is still below the now falling assessed value. I suspect that at the rate things are going the assessed value will soon dip below the taxable value on my house. At that point the taxable value better be reduced or I am making a trip to city hall.

Attrill
11-14-2008, 06:52 PM
The realtor just want's to make a sale and the lower your price the easier his job is.

Realtors make less money if the house sells for less, it is definitely in a realtor's best interest to get the best price they can. Also, the real price is what people will pay. If a house is undervalued you'll get a bidding war going between prospective buyers that will drive the price up to the market value.

In the end the market decides the true value of the house, and if buyers won't pay the asking price, then the house is by definition not worth the asking price.

Nowhereman1280
11-14-2008, 07:44 PM
I find that even banks are having this problem. Just yesterday CIT refused to accept an offer we had on a short sale we are doing unless it was $12k more, the people who made the offer simply said "no" and walked away. We just sent the bank a new offer that is now for 8k less than the last one. So now the bank is going to have to eat $20k more loss than they wanted.

All I could think was "you morons, don't you get that you are not in a position to negotiate?" I really think CIT is going to fail, they are just in complete disarray right now and seem to refuse to admit the trouble they are facing...

bryson662001
11-14-2008, 09:26 PM
Realtors make less money if the house sells for less, it is definitely in a realtor's best interest to get the best price they can. Also, the real price is what people will pay. If a house is undervalued you'll get a bidding war going between prospective buyers that will drive the price up to the market value.

Most realtors are only getting 1 or 2 % of the selling price by the time the commission is divided up. 1 or 2 % of a
20K difference is only 200/400 dollars.



In the end the market decides the true value of the house, and if buyers won't pay the asking price, then the house is by definition not worth the asking price.

This is true but you have to start somewhere. A low price won't always bring a bidding war because while prices in my area haven't dropped much if at all, traffic and volume of sales are off about 30%.

richb
12-01-2008, 10:34 PM
As a realtor, its a real pain to get folks to list at the right price. Though its always hard to get the sellers to list at the right price, people always think they have the above average house, the current market makes it much worse.

Case in point. Older guy, selling longtime house. Nice house, good shape, however very, very, outdated. Tells me about his high quality paint that he used. Only problem, the painting was done in 1977!!!

Then on the other side are the buyers that think the prices have fallen far more then they actually have. There are a lot of bottom feeders out there looking for the bargain that doesn't exist. They harder to deal with, due to their cheapness, and unwillingness to work with a single agent, so they waste a lot of my time and other agents due to the fact they won't be buying anything.

Of course sellers shoot themselves in their own foot sometimes by not cleaning their house very well. I know of several nice houses that show poorly due to being so dirty that they stink! All they need to do is a good top to bottom cleaning (they are vacant to boot), and the house would show better because the houses are in good condition (recently built houses) outside of being dirty! Bottom-line those dirty houses will take longer to sell and go for less money!

Being a realtor is harder then most of you think!

zilfondel
12-01-2008, 10:44 PM
They also expanded the deck by the pool, turning it into what Cicero called an "executive entertainment area."

ugh. No wonder it didn't sell!

Jasonhouse
12-02-2008, 03:16 AM
^That's awesome!



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