[liat91]

There is no doubt that these two indoor high-end malls are the shopping mecca for the Atlanta area. I know the Streets of Buckhead is coming along and will add some more high-end shopping for Buckhead. But, I have always though it to be silly to have two suburban indoor malls right next to each other basically hording all the high-end shopping for the city. So my question is; which one of these two malls should be demolished, which would route their high-end stores into the Midtown Mile and/or the Streets of Buckhead. Please chime in........

[NitekKetin]

This might be a stretch, but I'd go with Phipps, since it features the most conventional roster of luxury brands...a couple of which are headed to Streets of Buckhead. Lenox and Phipps seem to complement each other rather well by focusing on different aspects of higher-end shopping, but SOB might shake up the deck somewhat.

Just an thought...

[Chris Creech]

Aren't they owned by the same company now? I thought the plan was to eventually build out to the corners on Peachtree then actually connect them under the street, then just have one big continuous mall?

[Rail Claimore]

Aren't they owned by the same company now? I thought the plan was to eventually build out to the corners on Peachtree then actually connect them under the street, then just have one big continuous mall?

Something like that is long overdue.

[Sketching]

Aren't they owned by the same company now? I thought the plan was to eventually build out to the corners on Peachtree then actually connect them under the street, then just have one big continuous mall?

Yep, they are both owned by Simon. I had heard that tunnel under Peachtree idea before but it never seemed to materialize unless it is still on the back burner much like building them out to the street.

[Atlantan26]

what stores are leaving phipps for streets of buckhead?
i hadnt heard anything announced.

[amd1588]

It would be amazing if all of that shopping in those malls were more in an urban development on Peachtree.. Sort of like the Water Tower complex in Chicago...
Its just that to me, I can't really tell one mall from the next, meaning Lenox and Phipps may have more "Upscaled" stores than say North DeKalb, but it doesn't really matter much to me and other "average" people. I think it would be way more awesome right down in the city on P-tree

[ATLaffinity]

i like them both.

it's buckhead. we have two great urban malls next to each other.

they both seem to thrive. why would one disappear? is nordstrom or saks going to fail at Phipps?

[SAV]

well I know nothing is happening anytime soon, but I can see Phipps leaving. I think all those stores and the higher in stores from Lenox (Burbery, Luis Vuiton, etc.) will eventually go to SOB and maybe even add 2nd stores to midtown within the next 5-10 years. The stores from phipps that don't go to SOB can just relocate to Lenox or Midtown or both. Maybe they can build some more midrises where phipps is now. Saks and Niemans should go to SOB (Or near it if there is space) along with a new Barney's. Nordstrom can relocate to the space currently occupied by Neimans. And 5-10 years from now I can see a Saks, Niemans, Macy's, Nordstrom, or Bloomingdales, (maybe, not all of them) adding smaller Midtown locations.

So basically, I see SOB being the future Phipps Plaza. and I think Lenox will still be the mall in Atlanta and very popular but will not be as Luxurious as it is today. I see Lenox being more of a present-day Perimeter Mall (which is doing very well) but maybe a notch higher. And midtown will probably be the present day Lenox.

Or maybe Im dreaming.:slob:

[Atlantan26]

I think all that lenox and phipps need to do is develop the surface lots in front of the malls along peachtree and have an indoor/outdoor experience. this will make peachtree more inviting and give more retail space to the malls. :)

[ATLonthebrain]

I agree Simon should look at how to combine the two malls. There's something like 2.5M sf of space between them. The idea of an outdoor plaza at street level on the Lenox side (meaning built ABOVE the surface parking, since the site falls off from the street) then a skybridge over the P'tree/Lenox intersection to Phipps, which is also built-out to the street (replacing the surface parking), with an enclosed section of retail/entertainment/restaurants. I have seen people crossing at that intersection going from mall-to-mall and it's pretty ridiculous that there still isn't a seamless connector. Just look at The Somerset Collection in the northern Detroit burbs. There is an above-ground enclosed pedestrian bridge spanning Big Beaver Road connecting the two sides of the mall. I believe King of Prussia as well as a big mall in Tempe, AZ have this example also. I want to believe Simon has long thought the two need to be connected, but with this economy, it's probably doubtful that it would happen anytime soon. Still, when it does, I think it should be above the street, not tunneled. Looks more alive and active to see people passing above the intersection on the pedestrian bridge.

[sabino86]

How about adding better MARTA access to Lenox? :rolleyes:

[AtlMidtowner]

So my question is; which one of these two malls should be demolished, which would route their high-end stores into the Midtown Mile and/or the Streets of Buckhead. Please chime in........

Why would Simon want to demolish either mall?? Lenox has Marta connection, so it is an urban friendly mall.

Both are super successful malls!! Both have the highest per square foot retail gross income of any retail in Atlanta. They are more likely to expand than be demolished, especially with the Buckhead area continuing to have so much growth. In fact, Lenox was just expanded and an office building is being built connecting to Phipps.

That would be like asking, should Apple or Microsoft liquidated, or better, should Mercedes or BMW be liquidated.

It would make absolutely no sense to demolish either one!!!

[atl2phx]

There is no doubt that these two indoor high-end malls are the shopping mecca for the Atlanta area. I know the Streets of Buckhead is coming along and will add some more high-end shopping for Buckhead. But, I have always though it to be silly to have two suburban indoor malls right next to each other basically hording all the high-end shopping for the city. So my question is; which one of these two malls should be demolished, which would route their high-end stores into the Midtown Mile and/or the Streets of Buckhead. Please chime in........

neither mall is going anywhere. as pointed out, they both generate the highest $/sq ft sales in atlanta (or anywhere in the southeast with the likely exception of south florida).

midtown mile will grow organically, as it should. there are alot of current wildcards that could help or hinder the success of midtown mile, ie: improved economic and capital markets, absorption of existing condo's, the possibility of the MO and intercontinental rising in a few years, and the success of the announced, but yet to open retail and dining @ 1010.

[Andrea]

There's only 2.5 million sf between Phipps and Lenox, which is hardly overdoing it for a city the size of Atlanta. They're both ginning money like crazy, too. I agree with atl2phx -- the Lenox/Phipps area isn't in competition with the Midtown Mile and it's not an either-or situation.

When the economy comes out of the doldrums, it'll be interesting to see whether the Related Group moves forward with the two condo towers they've proposed on the back side of Lenox. That would be a nice use of some that undeveloped land back there.

[AtlMidtowner]

There's only 2.5 million sf between Phipps and Lenox, which is hardly overdoing it for a city the size of Atlanta. They're both ginning money like crazy, too. I agree with atl2phx -- the Lenox/Phipps area isn't in competition with the Midtown Mile and it's not an either-or situation.

When the economy comes out of the doldrums, it'll be interesting to see whether the Related Group moves forward with the two condo towers they've proposed on the back side of Lenox. That would be a nice use of some that undeveloped land back there.

If there were some massive green space near Lennox/Phipps, I wouldnt mind living there. The area between Piedmont, Buckhead Loop, Peachtree Rd, Lennox Mall,Phipps Plaza is really developping into a great multi-USED area. What it lacks for me is a Piedmont Park and some culture, which of course Midtown has.

Someday, Simon could theoretically turn the parking lot that faces Peachtree from Lennox into twin towers with a thousand condos, or office/hotel tower doubled with a condo tower attached to the mall. I think it would work, but rezoning in that area will be tough!! Yesterday it took 15 minutes to get from GA400 to Lennox.......yes, we live in Midtown and shop at Lennox......so traffic is a MAJOR issue there. In Bangkok, where my wife is from, virtually all the malls are urban. Well-to-do people dont want to walk on the streets to shop in the sweltering heat!!!!!!, which I am sure will be no different in SoB or Midtown Mile, posing a potential problem!!

And I thought the economy was so bad retailwise, Lennox was so full you literally could barely walk!!

[Fiorenza]

But were thay really spending significant money?

[ATLaffinity]

^ I was there Saturday afternoon picking up a birthday gift.

it took me about 15min to exit the parking lot. it was a madhouse at Lenox.

not sure if people are spending like previous years but they *are* spending.

and, again, Phipps is one of the best malls in the world. why close it???

and Lenox is getting *more* upscale, not less. they are not going to reverse that.

[ThrashATL]

Wasn't there a plan for an elevated tram/people mover to connect Lenox & Phipps?

[Chris Creech]

It would be amazing if all of that shopping in those malls were more in an urban development on Peachtree.. Sort of like the Water Tower complex in Chicago...
Its just that to me, I can't really tell one mall from the next, meaning Lenox and Phipps may have more "Upscaled" stores than say North DeKalb, but it doesn't really matter much to me and other "average" people. I think it would be way more awesome right down in the city on P-tree

Speaking of North Dekalb i went to the movies there the other Saturday. It is a sad, sad mall. Stores continue to close, there's only a few restaurants left in the food court. I can't see how that mall can stay open.

Shame the economiies in the tank, it seems it would be ripe for a "living center" redo.

[Chris Creech]

How about adding better MARTA access to Lenox? :rolleyes:

The original renderings of the Lenox Mall had elevated bridges connecting to the mall. In fact, if you look in the hotel building you can actually see on the side there where they'd built the place for the bridge to go into it.

They built the part of the tunnel from the hotel/office to the mall extension, but they apparently had "reservations" about making it too accessible to MARTA ridership. In fact, there was a big change in the demographics at Lenox when it opened, but a lot of it was just people wanting to be able to ride the subway out and spend a Saturday afternoon at the mall.

It seems that now everyone is pretty much over those concerns and have dealt with it, so it might be a good time to go back to the original connectin plans.

[Andrea]

Speaking of North Dekalb i went to the movies there the other Saturday. It is a sad, sad mall. Stores continue to close, there's only a few restaurants left in the food court. I can't see how that mall can stay open.

Shame the economiies in the tank, it seems it would be ripe for a "living center" redo.

They've been floating plans to convert it and bring in a Costco. The demographics around there are great.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2008/01/14/story10.html?ana=from_rss

http://ezshopperatl.blogspot.com/2008/06/costco-coming-to-north-dekalb-mall.html

[sabino86]

The original renderings of the Lenox Mall had elevated bridges connecting to the mall. In fact, if you look in the hotel building you can actually see on the side there where they'd built the place for the bridge to go into it.

They built the part of the tunnel from the hotel/office to the mall extension, but they apparently had "reservations" about making it too accessible to MARTA ridership. In fact, there was a big change in the demographics at Lenox when it opened, but a lot of it was just people wanting to be able to ride the subway out and spend a Saturday afternoon at the mall.

It seems that now everyone is pretty much over those concerns and have dealt with it, so it might be a good time to go back to the original connectin plans.

Interesting. I'm actually interning at MARTA for the semester (and usually ride the train from Lindbergh to Lenox for lunch). I'll be sure to check it out next time I head there.

[liat91]

There is no doubt these are two great malls. But you have two upscale malls in a non-urban type setting in the city of Atlanta, not so close to the central core, with it's museums and other venues. I still say close which ever one is not as nice etc. and demolish the other one for pedestrian friendly mixed use residential/neighborhood retail. Then send all those stores down to midtown and the rest to SOB. Oh, and reopen the Macy's in downtown.(I can dream).

[Kenneth Disraili]

Atlanta has the highest growing millionaire population in the United States, so with that said, the city should be able to support both upscale malls, SOB, and The Midtown Mile.

Too much investment has gone into Lenox and Phipps to warrant demolition. For example: When Corporate Investment Properties sold Phipps Plaza to Simon, the price tag was almost 500 million dollars, and across the street Lenox recently completed the second level on the Neiman Marcus wing and also enlargement of the Neiman Marcus store.

I know the importance of having a urban retail corridor, but with the way these two malls are set up in Buckhead, it is more like South Coast Plaza in Orange County, CA.