[SpongeG]

Marijuana grow-op industry hits Manitoba in big way

WINNIPEG (CBC) - The multibillion-dollar marijuana growing industry in Canada has infiltrated Manitoba in a big way, as police say they are seeing much more sophisticated commercial operations and criminal gangs from out of province moving in.

It's becoming more common for police to raid commercial marijuana grow-ops in Winnipeg - operations set up with thousands of plants worth millions of dollars on the street. There have been more than 60 grow-ops raided in Winnipeg in 2008, and nearly half of those arrested are from other parts of Canada.


The value of the average marijuana grow-op busted up by Winnipeg police is up by 30 per cent this year. Police say part of the draw bringing organized pot growers to Manitoba is relatively low housing prices.


"There's more plants. Bigger grows, more sophisticated grows and that leads me to believe that there is a more commercialized component to this," said Sgt. Kerry Baldwin of the Winnipeg Police Green Team.


"That goes far beyond making a living. That's a commercial operation is what that is."


The grow-ops are being set-up all over Winnipeg and the province. Some are in new communities with stunning half-million dollar homes, while others are set up in established neighbourhoods. On Monday, Winnipeg police raided two grow-ops less than one kilometre apart in the northwest area of the city, a raid that netted thousands of plants worth almost $3 million and three arrests.


Police are saying as many as 50 per cent of those charged in recent drug busts come from other provinces: British Columbia, Alberta, and Ontario.


Calgary-based Roger Morrison, a former police officer who has smashed more than 800 grow operations in his career, said the operations are becoming more sophisticated as they move from the West Coast farther east.


"The B.C. problem infiltrated Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and throughout Ontario now into the east," he said. “[We're seeing] the progression of primarily Asian organized crime with marijuana grow-ops go right across the country with the identical type of grow operations essentially the same plants too, genetic clones."


Police say those arrested often have no criminal records prior to their first bust. But experts say the operators work in teams: one person may focus on re-wiring the electrical system in the home to steal hydro-electric power. Another might be an expert in harvesting the marijuana, while third ember of the team might be in charge of making sure the plants are watered and healthy.


Morrison says the grow operations are sophisticated and difficult to detect. And it's very hard to catch the financiers behind the operations.


"It's cell behaviour," he said. "I don't want to equate it to terrorism but it's the same type of structure where cells will operate where different groups will operate 10-15 grow operations.


"Only one person would know where the distribution point is, so it's very difficult for the traditional organized crime investigation to go up the ladder."

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/081119/canada/winnipeg_pot_busts_1

[Calgarian]

Marijuana prohibition is the dumbest law in Canada.

[Greco Roman]

Uh oh; here we go......

[MonkeyRonin]

Marijuana prohibition is the dumbest law in Canada.

Yep. Legalization = more tax revenue for the government, lower crime/police-related expenditures, and lower crime rates. Most importantly though is the morality and hypocrisy behind prohibition. It is not the government's duty to enforce what they deem as "healthy" or "moral", and if they are going to do that, at least do it fairly. i.e. pot being illegal while alcohol and Big Macs are legal.

[1ajs]

yea the gov is missing out on alot of tax dallors on this one.. could use the revenues from pot to help fight a real danger like meth

[KrisYYC]

Marijuana should be totally legalized and have similar standing as alcohol.

Prostitution should be legal too. Why is it illegal in the first place? Many young women are indirect prostitutes already, using their vagina as a tool to get guys to do or buy things for them, at least hookers are honest about it.

[401_King]

its not all that simple, if its legalized and taxed, the possibility of illegal business with tax evasion can occur---dont forget that guys. but i guess thats anyones own fault for taking that route.

[MonkeyRonin]

its not all that simple, if its legalized and taxed, the possibility of illegal business with tax evasion can occur---dont forget that guys. but i guess thats anyones own fault for taking that route.

That can happen in any market. And a few illegal businesses out of many legal ones are better than simply having no legal ones.

[401_King]

no i agree, i just wanted to get the contrarian view on here for the heck of it. but tax evasion is bound to happen if its taxed to shit like it probably will be. but that can be solved with increased penalties...aka the seller is no better off when marijuana was illegal lol

[someone123]

no i agree, i just wanted to get the contrarian view on here for the heck of it. but tax evasion is bound to happen if its taxed to shit like it probably will be. but that can be solved with increased penalties...aka the seller is no better off when marijuana was illegal lol

But it's meaningless on multiple levels as a counter-argument. It's a general problem related to taxation, the government still taxes other things despite evasion, it would still be illegal, marijuana revenues would still be higher regardless, etc.

I also dislike the "let's tax the hell out of it!" argument because it demonstrates a very callous attitude towards civil liberties (I also hate talk about same sex marriage bringing in money). At the end of the day the real problem is that the reasoning for making marijuana illegal just isn't sound, and the burden of proof should rest with the government when it comes to imposing restrictions on individual liberty (which is also what taxes happen to be).

Marijuana should definitely be made legal in Canada. You can blame the propaganda of US social conservatives and the religious right for our own absurd laws (though thankfully they're in decline, so who knows what will happen in the future?).

[Doug]

Yep. Legalization = more tax revenue for the government, lower crime/police-related expenditures, and lower crime rates. Most importantly though is the morality and hypocrisy behind prohibition. It is not the government's duty to enforce what they deem as "healthy" or "moral", and if they are going to do that, at least do it fairly. i.e. pot being illegal while alcohol and Big Macs are legal.

...and tighter border security, less trade, more unemployment

[MonkeyRonin]

...and tighter border security, less trade, more unemployment

My comment was a broad statement applicable to any country. Though in a Canadian context, with an Obama administration, I don't think tighter border security would be an issue.

[Denscity]

BC is the world capitol, let alone Canada.

[vid]

its not all that simple, if its legalized and taxed, the possibility of illegal business with tax evasion can occur---dont forget that guys. but i guess thats anyones own fault for taking that route.

That happens with cigarettes. Should we ban those?

I think the benefits of legalizing marijuana far outweigh the risk of a couple businesses skipping their taxes. If its managed in the same was a government liquor operations (CCBO, anyone? :)) we could avoid most of that. I don't think any LCBOs are evading taxes!

...and tighter border security

Well that's America's fault for being paranoid about pot. We got tighter border security from them without even doing anything.

less trade

With who? Because we legalized pot?

more unemployment

I fail to see the connection. Are you trying to say that all people who smoke pot are unemployed? That anyone who tries marijuana will become a ward of the state? Unemployment rates are a measure of people actively looking for work. Did you actually mean to say participation rates would decline?

I know lots of people who drink alcohol who are unemployed or working shitty jobs (My dad, the definition of an alcoholic, is a Wal-Mart "associate".) so why isn't that prohibited? Drunk drivers actually kill people! More people than high drivers do. (High drivers are too busy playing with their keys to drive anyway.)

Alcohol is legal because prohibiting it did not work. It only led to a major increase in organized crime. (Without prohibition of alcohol, how many of us would have learned about Al Capone and company?) If we legalize marijuana, we can take it almost entirely out of the hands of organized crime. One of its biggest profit areas would be wiped away over night. That would do much more to prevent crime than threatening to put 14 year olds in prison, I think.

This isn't even about tax revenue. It's about preventing organized crime from profiting on a substance that really isn't as harmful as other products than can be obtained legally.

[youngregina]

Drunk drivers actually kill people! More people than high drivers do. (High drivers are too busy playing with their keys to drive anyway.)

That and even if a blazed driver figures out how to put his key in the ignition,, it would take him half an hour to go a block or two he's so "concentrated" on the road aha...

[harryc]

That and even if a blazed driver figures out how to put his key in the ignition,, it would take him half an hour to go a block or two he's so "concentrated" on the road aha...

Having experimented extensively with driving under various influences ( back when there was lead in the gas ), I can say that alcohol is much much worse than anything short of opiates, and as bad as those. It isn't the degradation of your abilities, it is the suspension of your fears and constraints. Likewise I never got in a girls pants by getting her stoned, alcohol on the other hand ..... (this test was run innumerable times).

I would suggest that "victimless crimes" be not crimes, but promoting anti or contra social activities (advertising) be banned. It still strikes me as bizarre to hear the state of Illinois promoting gambling.

[Bassic Lab]

That happens with cigarettes. Should we ban those?

I think the benefits of legalizing marijuana far outweigh the risk of a couple businesses skipping their taxes. If its managed in the same was a government liquor operations (CCBO, anyone? :)) we could avoid most of that. I don't think any LCBOs are evading taxes!



Well that's America's fault for being paranoid about pot. We got tighter border security from them without even doing anything.



With who? Because we legalized pot?



I fail to see the connection. Are you trying to say that all people who smoke pot are unemployed? That anyone who tries marijuana will become a ward of the state? Unemployment rates are a measure of people actively looking for work. Did you actually mean to say participation rates would decline?

I know lots of people who drink alcohol who are unemployed or working shitty jobs (My dad, the definition of an alcoholic, is a Wal-Mart "associate".) so why isn't that prohibited? Drunk drivers actually kill people! More people than high drivers do. (High drivers are too busy playing with their keys to drive anyway.)

Alcohol is legal because prohibiting it did not work. It only led to a major increase in organized crime. (Without prohibition of alcohol, how many of us would have learned about Al Capone and company?) If we legalize marijuana, we can take it almost entirely out of the hands of organized crime. One of its biggest profit areas would be wiped away over night. That would do much more to prevent crime than threatening to put 14 year olds in prison, I think.

This isn't even about tax revenue. It's about preventing organized crime from profiting on a substance that really isn't as harmful as other products than can be obtained legally.

Doug's point was that efforts to liberalize drug laws in Canada could lead to punitive measures being undertaken by the US that would harm trade between us and thus our economy. The increased unemployment would be a direct result of the American reaction. There is some legitimacy to this line of argument, we would be seriously undermining their war on drugs. Of course the ease with which firearms are available in the US seriously undermines Canadian efforts to control access to handguns, but such is life as the junior partner.

That said it would not stop me from liberalizing drug laws, I'd just ensure that a high capacity oil pipeline was built to Prince Rupert first. Then I'd subtly let the American's know that if that is the way they want to screw us, we might just see if the Chinese know how to treat a lover right. The threat to shut off American access to Canadian energy supplies is a tool we should take much more advantage of during trade negotiations. At least until they start moving a couple divisions to the border.

[PhilippeMtl]

BC is the world capitol, let alone Canada. this is a myth...


Quebec smokes rest of Canada in pot use
David Johnston , CanWest News Service; Montreal Gazette
Published: Sunday, July 15, 2007

MONTREAL -- Were it not for prodigious pot use in Quebec, Canada would not have placed first in a United Nations drug study of marijuana use in the industrialized world.
In fact, were Quebec a sovereign nation, it would have finished first ahead of Canada, according to a breakdown of the data supplied by Canada for the UN study.
The biggest difference between Quebec and the rest of Canada is seen in the youngest age groups.


According to the Health Canada's 2002 Youth Smoking Survey, which looked at marijuana as well as tobacco, 32 per cent of students in Grades 7 to 9 in Quebec have smoked marijuana at least once.
That compares with 18 per cent in British Columbia, which ranked second in Canada, and 11 per cent in Ontario, which ranked lowest among provinces and territories.
The 2007 World Drug Report of the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs made headlines last week when it was revealed that Canada topped the list of industrialized nations for marijuana use.


Spain topped the world for cocaine, Iran for heroin, Australia for ecstasy and the Philippines for amphetamines.
In the Montreal area, police say marijuana consumption has become particularly problematic in the booming suburbs north of Montreal and Laval.
Overall, marijuana use in Quebec is running 12 per cent higher than the national average, according to the most recent inter-provincial comparison, the 2004 Canadian Addiction Survey, co-ordinated by Health Canada. This was the main study used by the UN to determine Canadian consumption.
In Quebec, addiction experts say marijuana has surpassed alcohol as the drug for which young people are most likely to seek treatment in publicly funded rehabilitation centres.
"It's really cannabis that is the substance that is the most problematic among youths that come to treatment centres today -- more than for alcohol, certainly," said Michel Landry, director of research for the Centre Dollard Cormier.


The centre co-ordinates publicly funded drug rehabilitation services for the Ministry of Health in the Montreal area.
Alcohol still causes more societal problems in terms of risky sexual behaviour, property damage and violence, according to Landry.
And, overall, marijuana is still considered among the "least addictive of all psycho-active substances," according to Jurgen Rehm, a senior scientist with the Toronto-based Centre for Addiction and Mental Health.


But marijuana, for whatever reason, is becoming more of a worry to those who actually use it, or at least those who believe they are dependent on it.
Whether increased demand among Quebec youth for marijuana-related rehab services reflects the escalating potency of the illegal crop, or the prevalence of so-called grow ops in southwestern Quebec, are not questions that are easily answered, the experts say.
The 2007 World Drug Report found 16.8 per cent of Canadians aged 15 to 64 used marijuana in 2004; only four countries, all non-industrialized, had higher rates - Papua New Guinea, Micronesia, Ghana and Zambia.


The key figure addiction experts watch for is chronic consumption.
And, as far as marijuana is concerned, the data suggest only five to 15 per cent of Canadian marijuana users are "problem" users -- a proportion that is more or less the same for users of alcohol and other drugs.

[MolsonExport]

Uh oh; here we go......

what, are you beginning your Mary Jane trip? :D

[Calgarian]

I doubt that legalizing Pot would result in less trade with the US, if we had a charismatic leader he would probably counter with their ridiculous gun laws, and then ask the American people which kills more people, being able to buy an Uzi or a joint.

I wonder if the next Liberal Gov't will bring back Chretien's decriminalization law.

[feepa]

what, are you beginning your Mary Jane trip? :D

I know I am...

*lights on up*

:banana:

[LeftCoaster]

then ask the American people which kills more people, being able to buy an Uzi or a joint.

Right wing america is not, and never has been, interested in reason.

[Doug]

That happens with cigarettes. Should we ban those?

I think the benefits of legalizing marijuana far outweigh the risk of a couple businesses skipping their taxes. If its managed in the same was a government liquor operations (CCBO, anyone? :)) we could avoid most of that. I don't think any LCBOs are evading taxes!



Well that's America's fault for being paranoid about pot. We got tighter border security from them without even doing anything.



With who? Because we legalized pot?



I fail to see the connection. Are you trying to say that all people who smoke pot are unemployed? That anyone who tries marijuana will become a ward of the state? Unemployment rates are a measure of people actively looking for work. Did you actually mean to say participation rates would decline?

I know lots of people who drink alcohol who are unemployed or working shitty jobs (My dad, the definition of an alcoholic, is a Wal-Mart "associate".) so why isn't that prohibited? Drunk drivers actually kill people! More people than high drivers do. (High drivers are too busy playing with their keys to drive anyway.)

Alcohol is legal because prohibiting it did not work. It only led to a major increase in organized crime. (Without prohibition of alcohol, how many of us would have learned about Al Capone and company?) If we legalize marijuana, we can take it almost entirely out of the hands of organized crime. One of its biggest profit areas would be wiped away over night. That would do much more to prevent crime than threatening to put 14 year olds in prison, I think.

This isn't even about tax revenue. It's about preventing organized crime from profiting on a substance that really isn't as harmful as other products than can be obtained legally.

I'm trying to say that legalized pot would likely lead to tighter border security regardless of which President is in power. That would in turn impede trade and hit the economy. Even if the probability of this is low, the consequences would be dire, so why take the risk? The "War on Drugs" isn't going away anytime soon as a large percentage of the American populace is strongly supportive.

Why mess with the current approach to pot in Canada: i.e. technically illegal, but rarely enforced? Actual legalization would be ideological and nothing more.

[vid]

The threat to shut off American access to Canadian energy supplies is a tool we should take much more advantage of during trade negotiations. At least until they start moving a couple divisions to the border.

We forfeited that ability when we agreed to participate in NAFTA.

Actual legalization would be ideological and nothing more.

Actual legalization would have a negative impact on organized crime, reducing the crime rate in our cities.

Well, I guess I can see why Conservatives would oppose it now. They would rather let crime happen and then deal with it after the fact than do anything that might bring the rates down. :no:

[Calgarian]

We forfeited that ability when we agreed to participate in NAFTA.



Actual legalization would have a negative impact on organized crime, reducing the crime rate in our cities.



That would only happen if it were legalized and a legal industry was created. The Bill that the Liberals tabled was just to de criminalize small amounts so that people wouldn't get a criminal record for having a joint.

[vid]

Well it obviously doesn't go far enough.

[Doug]

I doubt the domestic marijuana trade drives much crime in Canada given that it isn't all that lucrative. Pot is so easy to come by in Canada, the profit margins aren't all that great. Organized crime is more interested in supplying the US market. As such, legalization would do absolutely nothing to disincent criminals and could actually make it worse.

[Calgarian]

I doubt the domestic marijuana trade drives much crime in Canada given that it isn't all that lucrative. Pot is so easy to come by in Canada, the profit margins aren't all that great. Organized crime is more interested in supplying the US market. As such, legalization would do absolutely nothing to disincent criminals and could actually make it worse.

Are you crazy? in BC the "industry" is valued at $7.5 billion!!!! and I bet most of that stays in Canada. That's a lot of money in the pockets of organized crime groups.

[LeftCoaster]

I doubt the domestic marijuana trade drives much crime in Canada given that it isn't all that lucrative. Pot is so easy to come by in Canada, the profit margins aren't all that great. Organized crime is more interested in supplying the US market. As such, legalization would do absolutely nothing to disincent criminals and could actually make it worse.

You must be kidding

[Bassic Lab]

We forfeited that ability when we agreed to participate in NAFTA.



Actual legalization would have a negative impact on organized crime, reducing the crime rate in our cities.

Well, I guess I can see why Conservatives would oppose it now. They would rather let crime happen and then deal with it after the fact than do anything that might bring the rates down. :no:

What is a NAFTA committee going to do? As far as I can tell they'll take months of deliberations just to tell us we're wrong and should restart the pipelines and then if we ignore them, they'll spend more months deliberating before telling us we're in the wrong, again.

All we need is a leader just crazy enough to convince the American's that if they push us around on trade we're willing to shut the whole thing down, screw the consequences, and let them choke. The whole softwood lumber thing would never have happened if we had only had an alcoholic Prime Minister with nothing left to lose.

Doug, just saying that the domestic Pot business is not lucrative does not make it so. If organized crime was not making money, they would not be selling it. Now unless you're intimately involved in Marijuana production in this country, which I doubt, you are not an authority just because you speak authoritatively. Legalization would not be solely ideological, people are in prison for pot, organized crime makes money off of it, and principles actually do matter.