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O-tacular
May 12, 2015, 8:35 PM
Yeah it seemed like Prentice and the PC's had some shady deal in place with KK and co. to give them some sweetheart deal that had to wait until after their new 'mandate'. I bet we don't hear anything all summer.

Though they did make mention of it the other day briefly on NewsTalk 770. Quite frankly I don't even care anymore. Build it or don't. The Flames will still play next season regardless.

suburbia
May 12, 2015, 9:34 PM
It was a hard no before

I don't believe it was a hard no at all, rather, there was a handshake contingent on the business network getting them funded and elected.

Yeah it seemed like Prentice and the PC's had some shady deal in place with KK and co. to give them some sweetheart deal that had to wait until after their new 'mandate'. I bet we don't hear anything all summer.

Yup - what he said.
https://twitter.com/jimprentice/status/560669461909209088

Socguy
May 14, 2015, 12:56 AM
I don't believe it was a hard no at all, rather, there was a handshake contingent on the business network getting them funded and elected.

If that is the case, it's just another reason for the PC's to go. Funding should be allocated on the basis of sound policy rather than backroom deals.

craner
May 14, 2015, 5:05 AM
I don't believe it was a hard no at all, rather, there was a handshake contingent on the business network getting them funded and elected.



Yup - what he said.
https://twitter.com/jimprentice/status/560669461909209088

This is proof of some secret backroom deal? :shrug:

suburbia
May 14, 2015, 7:45 PM
This is proof of some secret backroom deal? :shrug:

It is a world of handshakes my friend. Just like diamonds.

craner
May 21, 2015, 6:45 PM
Still crickets from K.K. - hope we get some news soon.

On a related note I wonder if confirmation of arena/stadium plans are affecting announcements of new downtown hotels. Would sure like to see City Centre Phase II get going.

Socguy
May 21, 2015, 11:49 PM
I will be very surprised to hear an actual proposal from KK, at least in the short term.

The only reason to put something like this out there is to drum up support from the public in order to foist it onto the public agenda. At the moment, I don't see either the city or the Provence in any position to support this thing in the near term. Nor do I think that the public are going to want much to do with this thing if the ask is going to be for much more than realigning some roads.

In Edmonton the Mayor was a huge proponent of the arena project and he steadfastly resuscitated the deal after each of the half dozen times it died. Who on city council is going to play the same role in Calgary? Nobody.

Unless the plan is a call for private investors to step up, any proposal is D.O.A. and he knows it.

Denscafon
Jun 4, 2015, 7:42 PM
Looks like CLMC's involvement in redeveloping west village has begun.

http://vendor.purchasingconnection.ca/Opportunity.aspx?Guid=AADAAE1C-4719-46CD-A8B2-6DAC57EE35CE

Just an RFQ for remediation but seems to go against the arena plans if CLMC sent it out.

nick.flood
Jun 4, 2015, 8:29 PM
delete

artvandelay
Jun 4, 2015, 9:02 PM
I'd think that this is a good sign for a potential arena project.

jsbertram
Jun 4, 2015, 10:04 PM
Looks like CLMC's involvement in redeveloping west village has begun.

http://vendor.purchasingconnection.ca/Opportunity.aspx?Guid=AADAAE1C-4719-46CD-A8B2-6DAC57EE35CE

Just an RFQ for remediation but seems to go against the arena plans if CLMC sent it out.

Arena or not, the remediation still has to be done.

Innersoul1
Jun 30, 2015, 5:28 PM
Is this a game changer? I really like he renderings that I have seen thus far. I still feel like we could be waiting for a VERY long time with king dragging his feet.
BCC7Zlk6LNQ

O-tacular
Jun 30, 2015, 6:01 PM
Nice.

I posted in the Construction thread last week that Ken King was on the Fan 960 evading more questions about the new arena. He did drop some bombs though. Supposedly it will be the most transformative project in the city's history :rolleyes:.

He also said they were waiting for the NDP to get established before meeting with them but maintained he has already sent them details. He actually said they were ready to reveal the plan the day after the election until the surprise NDP upset. To me that can mean nothing else than the PC's had some secret deal with the Flames ownership.

MalcolmTucker
Jun 30, 2015, 6:03 PM
If they have submitted the plans, someone can foip it. $25 bucks!

Riise
Jun 30, 2015, 8:07 PM
He did drop some bombs though. Supposedly it will be the most transformative project in the city's history :rolleyes:.

Oh God, maybe it is Fire Park...

speedog
Jul 1, 2015, 12:17 AM
Oh God, maybe it is Fire Park...
Nestled amidst Memorial, Deerfoot and Barlow; LRT station already there and on the door step; bunches of hotels to the north and a most amazing view to the WSW and I've heard that a couple of Flames owners have interests in the Firepark lands - hmmm..

tomthumb2
Jul 1, 2015, 5:32 AM
If anyone wants to hear it, here is the link:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/the-big-...nhl-expansion/
(at about the 10:56 mark)

I think its about as vague as you can be - no mention at all about a location so not sure where Fire Park comes into play. Frankly I hate that location but at this point I think we'd all be amazed to see any plan at all.

Crazy how a bankrupt city like Detroit is miles ahead of us but I guess they do things different down there.

In any case - we probably don't hear anything now with Stampede and summer upon us.

suburbia
Jul 1, 2015, 5:48 AM
Nestled amidst Memorial, Deerfoot and Barlow; LRT station already there and on the door step; bunches of hotels to the north and a most amazing view to the WSW and I've heard that a couple of Flames owners have interests in the Firepark lands - hmmm..

Did you guys really think that all of my talk about firepark was just based on speculation? LOL!

He actually said they were ready to reveal the plan the day after the election until the surprise NDP upset. To me that can mean nothing else than the PC's had some secret deal with the Flames ownership.

Again, did you guys really think I was just speculating?

Trans Canada
Jul 1, 2015, 1:45 PM
I think its about as vague as you can be - no mention at all about a location so not sure where Fire Park comes into play. Frankly I hate that location but at this point I think we'd all be amazed to see any plan at all.Yeah not sure why Fire Park was brought up in this thread - at the moment the only indication of location we have is West Village which was discussed with the mayor in early April. West Village would certainly be more transformative than Fire Park.

speedog
Jul 1, 2015, 2:31 PM
Yeah not sure why Fire Park was brought up in this thread - at the moment the only indication of location we have is West Village which was discussed with the mayor in early April. West Village would certainly be more transformative than Fire Park.
Gotta keep suburbia active, no?

O-tacular
Jul 1, 2015, 5:46 PM
It's funny I don't even care anymore. With the exception of the bathrooms I like the Dome plus anything I imagine them proposing will be either a cool concept that gets bastardized and ruined by budget cuts or an underwhelming utilitarian design that won't match the iconicness of the Saddledome.

lineman
Jul 1, 2015, 6:07 PM
Agree on all counts.

This has been Brad Lambed to the point where I don't really care either.

tomthumb2
Jul 1, 2015, 6:25 PM
^^^ +1

suburbia
Jul 1, 2015, 9:05 PM
Nestled amidst Memorial, Deerfoot and Barlow; LRT station already there and on the door step; bunches of hotels to the north and a most amazing view to the WSW and I've heard that a couple of Flames owners have interests in the Firepark lands - hmmm..

Perhaps the mystery of all the hotels popping up in that corridor is slowly being answered?

Stadium, arena, exhibition space, virtual convention centre, commercial, sports, arts, entertainment, residential. A proposition valuable to the city.

O-tacular
Jul 1, 2015, 9:50 PM
Perhaps the mystery of all the hotels popping up in that corridor is slowly being answered?

Stadium, arena, exhibition space, virtual convention centre, commercial, sports, arts, entertainment, residential. A proposition valuable to the city.

You honestly think all those different hotel chains have some inside knowledge that no one, not even the city has? Seems pretty unrealistic.

suburbia
Jul 2, 2015, 5:10 AM
You honestly think all those different hotel chains have some inside knowledge that no one, not even the city has? Seems pretty unrealistic.

50% of Calgary's hotels are owned by two groups. Each group has loose affiliation, so you won't find that info on Google. Those groups talk to each other, and one of those groups may also have a stake in Firepark. Of course, all of this is speculation - just like my prior info on the deal with Prentice.

You Need A Thneed
Jul 2, 2015, 6:00 AM
The closest one of those hotels is probably 2 km as the crow flies from Fire Park.

And far more hotels recently have been going up north of the airport, rather than south.

CalgaryAlex
Jul 2, 2015, 2:59 PM
Firepark... :yuck:

mwalker_mw
Jul 2, 2015, 3:28 PM
"bankrupt city like Detroit" "they do things different down there."

There might be a connection...

Socguy
Jul 2, 2015, 8:54 PM
...Of course, all of this is speculation - just like my prior info on the deal with Prentice.

Just because KK came out and stated that he was ready to announce right after the election but then the NDP won, it doesn't give us any reason to believe him.

Given his track record, it's far more logical to assume it was just the most convenient excuse at the time to keep his plans under wraps while he figures out some way to make whatever ask from the public purse palatable to the public.

speedog
Jul 2, 2015, 10:52 PM
The closest one of those hotels is probably 2 km as the crow flies from Fire Park.

And far more hotels recently have been going up north of the airport, rather than south.

In reality, there's at least three hotels within 2km of the Firepark lands as the crow flies. 7 within 2.5km.

The Fisher Account
Jul 2, 2015, 11:14 PM
Alright, enough talk about Firepark. It's not happening. Move on to something constructive.

suburbia
Jul 3, 2015, 3:48 AM
Alright, enough talk about Firepark. It's not happening. Move on to something constructive.

Please refrain from posts that do not add anything constructive.

suburbia
Jul 6, 2015, 11:15 PM
All I can say is WOW!

Innersoul1
Jul 7, 2015, 12:39 AM
All I can say is WOW!

Forum rules prohibit you from doing that! Please add more detail.

hulkrogan
Jul 7, 2015, 5:21 AM
Did you guys really think that all of my talk about firepark was just based on speculation? LOL!



Again, did you guys really think I was just speculating?

You are speculating. King has confirmed it will be a downtown location several times. No Firepark.

suburbia
Jul 7, 2015, 3:59 PM
King has confirmed it will be a downtown location several times.

He also confirmed information will be out before end of the month.

Innersoul1
Jul 7, 2015, 4:51 PM
He also confirmed information will be out before end of the month.

Given your previous comment I assume that you have seen some sort of renderings for the project and may be privy to a location?

The Fisher Account
Jul 7, 2015, 5:09 PM
Given your previous comment I assume that you have seen some sort of renderings for the project and may be privy to a location?

He doesn't have anything. He's just a nuisance at this point.

O-tacular
Jul 7, 2015, 5:35 PM
Agreed. Suburbia is the last person I would ever trust when it comes to a rumour.

VIce
Jul 7, 2015, 7:45 PM
He also confirmed information will be out before end of the month.

But did he confirm which month?

Ice Cream Man
Jul 7, 2015, 8:41 PM
There is no design done at this stage. Perhaps, at best, functional planning.

If I were a betting man, I'd put all my money on the West Village location.

geotag277
Jul 7, 2015, 9:00 PM
Agreed. Suburbia is the last person I would ever trust when it comes to a rumour.

To be fair, it is hard to be on the up and up regarding rumours when you never leave the basement of your compound with mile high fences.

O-tacular
Jul 7, 2015, 9:07 PM
To be fair, it is hard to be on the up and up regarding rumours when you never leave the basement of your compound with mile high fences.

:haha::haha::haha:

nick.flood
Jul 7, 2015, 9:11 PM
delete

O-tacular
Jul 7, 2015, 10:17 PM
We should cut him some slack. Between his solitary lunches at Firepark he's admitted to being on the Jaipur Bridge to Prince's Island and in City Hall where he's seen the various items gifted by Sister cities.

A side note though, last time I was by Firepark I noticed a fair amount of chain link fencing around so it's possible that is the major draw.

I thought that was only there to prevent the child abductors from snatching children in the park?

*Stardust*
Jul 13, 2015, 4:12 PM
http://youtu.be/xcwJt4bcnXs

Watched this last night and thought it was relevant to us. Hopefully Ken King doesn't pull shit like this.

suburbia
Jul 13, 2015, 8:41 PM
http://youtu.be/xcwJt4bcnXs

Watched this last night and thought it was relevant to us.

Excellent video!

xcwJt4bcnXs

Hopefully Ken King doesn't pull shit like this.

Did you really think it was all about the love of sport?

Socguy
Jul 14, 2015, 6:56 PM
^ I wonder if Ken King will threaten to move the Flames and Stampeders to LA if the City doesn't capitulate to whatever demands he will inevitably make! :haha:

tomthumb2
Jul 15, 2015, 6:50 AM
Great article in the Herald today (heavy sarcasm):

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/breakenridge-still-waiting-to-hear-the-flames-arena-plans

tomthumb2
Aug 12, 2015, 6:13 PM
Finally!

Season ticket holders just got this letter:

It is a great time to be a sports fan and live in this wonderful and vibrant city of Calgary. We would like to share a proposal for a project that will make all Calgarians and Albertans proud.

This has the potential to be one of Calgary's most transformative projects at a vital time in our city's history.

This will be our first public discussion on this project and it is important that you be among the first to know.

On August 18, we will be hosting an information session to present the high level scope of the project including a preview of CalgaryNEXT.

This is not a formal launch of the project, but it is an opportunity for us to share what has been done to date and introduce our vision for the future.

Please confirm your attendance and since space is limited, please RSVP by 12 noon on Friday, August 14. We hope you can join us.


"This is not a formal launch of the project"
...that statement does bother me slightly as it hints that it might not officially happen for quite a while but still - at least we're finally going to hear SOMETHING!

CalgaryAlex
Aug 12, 2015, 6:18 PM
Ken King: "Hi everyone, thanks for coming. Just to let you know, we haven't figured out anything. But I hope you are all excited to learn that we will be adding porta-potties to the concourse in order to deal with overcrowded bathrooms!"

CalgaryArchitecture
Aug 12, 2015, 6:22 PM
So is CalgaryNEXT the district name?

The Fisher Account
Aug 12, 2015, 6:24 PM
Why have an event when you're not even going to formally launch the project? This is such a Ken King-ism it's not even funny

Ramsayfarian
Aug 12, 2015, 6:46 PM
Ken King: "Hi everyone, thanks for coming. Just to let you know, we haven't figured out anything. But I hope you are all excited to learn that we will be adding porta-potties to the concourse in order to deal with overcrowded bathrooms!"

Kind of reminds me of this clip:
GiPe1OiKQuk

CalgaryAlex
Aug 12, 2015, 7:18 PM
Kind of reminds me of this clip:

Perfectly describes Ken King's communication skills when it comes to... everything.

*Stardust*
Aug 12, 2015, 7:21 PM
So vague...

So does that mean we will see some designs at least?

Bigtime
Aug 12, 2015, 7:44 PM
The Sun's Dave Dormer on twitter:

"Source says @CalgaryNext project will include arena for @NHLFlames and fieldhouse for @calstampeders, proposed for west end of downtown #yyc"

Fuzz
Aug 12, 2015, 8:59 PM
proposed for views of west end of downtown from Firepark

Fixed it for Suburbia.

CalgaryArchitecture
Aug 12, 2015, 9:03 PM
So the motto of the project is,

Live|Work|Play

Can we expect an top class entertainment district with the project?

suburbia
Aug 12, 2015, 10:17 PM
The Sun's Dave Dormer on twitter:

"Source says @CalgaryNext project will include arena for @NHLFlames and fieldhouse for @calstampeders, proposed for west end of downtown #yyc"

Darn. But there is still time to help him see the light.

craner
Aug 13, 2015, 12:23 AM
Media is reporting it will include a new arena (privately funded) and a field house (partially publically funded), but nothing about a new stadium.

I will be so dissappointed and pissed if a replacement for McMahon is not part of the plans.

Impatiently waiting for Tuesday now.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 12:31 AM
Put deployable bleachers in all directions instead of just one, over part of the running track, and you get how many spots I wonder? Edit: Their video says the render below is 10,000 seats. (https://youtu.be/taHpgqaOzw8?t=3m7s) So raise the roof a little bit, make it all the way around, and you have 30,000 easy.

http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/render_01-small.jpg
Source: Calgary Multisport Fieldhouse Society (http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/the-concept/)

polishavenger
Aug 13, 2015, 12:56 AM
Put deployable bleachers in all directions instead of just one, over part of the running track, and you get how many spots I wonder? Edit: Their video says the render below is 10,000 seats. (https://youtu.be/taHpgqaOzw8?t=3m7s) So raise the roof a little bit, make it all the way around, and you have 30,000 easy.

http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/render_01-small.jpg
Source: Calgary Multisport Fieldhouse Society (http://www.calgaryfieldhouse.ca/the-concept/)

Having a track between the first levels of seats reduces the quality of the spectator experience, so if you would like a multi use facility I would suggest having bleachers retract over top of the track.

suburbia
Aug 13, 2015, 1:21 AM
... if you would like a multi use facility I would suggest having bleachers retract over top of the track.

That would make for a horrendous viewing experience for track. There must be a system out there that you can move completely on to the track and then completely pull back as is. Just thinking out loud - I can imagine different challenges for such a system.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 1:29 AM
That would make for a horrendous viewing experience for track. There must be a system out there that you can move completely on to the track and then completely pull back as is. Just thinking out loud - I can imagine different challenges for such a system.

That is what I meant, but yeah, huge challenges. The university moves bleachers over hardwood, and expensive engineering can fix almost anything.

In the image above, track and field are the sports they are designing to be the primary use for the bleachers, so the setup makes sense. It would certainly be possible to not deploy the bleachers all the way, so you could do both over some or all of the track, and with some leeway.

bt04ku
Aug 13, 2015, 3:46 AM
Media is reporting it will include a new arena (privately funded) and a field house (partially publically funded), but nothing about a new stadium.

I will be so dissappointed and pissed if a replacement for McMahon is not part of the plans.

Impatiently waiting for Tuesday now.

It could be that a stadium is in the long term plans, but not the short term ones. Given the revenue at stake, getting a new arena up is a much more pressing matter than a stadium for the Flames ownership and taking on all that debt all at once might not be the best option for them.

Just to throw out more speculation: it could be that a stadium is dependent on road re-routing and it might not be logistically feasible for the city and team to take on all projects at once. Or my favorite bit of wild speculation: there is substance to the Olympic bid rumours and they will push for multi-level government funding for the stadium as a part of that bid after showing how responsible they are to the community by building the arena all on their own.

I'm generally against adding fuel to rumours but they brought it on themselves with these all this dilly-dallying.

red_179
Aug 13, 2015, 3:48 AM
Media is reporting it will include a new arena (privately funded) and a field house (partially publically funded), but nothing about a new stadium.

I will be so dissappointed and pissed if a replacement for McMahon is not part of the plans.

Impatiently waiting for Tuesday now.

My understanding from the media is that the Fieldhouse and Stadium will be one multi-use complex.

The Urbanist
Aug 13, 2015, 3:51 AM
My understanding from the media is that the Fieldhouse and Stadium will be one multi-use complex.

This is what I gather as well. Similar to what EDM is doing with their community rink and Rogers Arena.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 3:54 AM
Field house can equal stadium, and make it much easier to get tax payers money. At least the public would get fuller use of the square footage 99% of days compared to today's stadium. And we (as in the city) was planning on eventually finding the money for a field house anyways.

O-tacular
Aug 13, 2015, 3:54 AM
Why have an event when you're not even going to formally launch the project? This is such a Ken King-ism it's not even funny

It will probably be heavy on conceptual images and pictures of exciting arenas in other cities, with promises of rainbows and unicorns. At the end of it after asking the crowd if they want all the exciting things shown a cap will be passed around asking for donations and the city to fund most of it,

nick.flood
Aug 13, 2015, 4:20 AM
delete

unibrain
Aug 13, 2015, 4:29 AM
This is a fairly good read:
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/letter-fuels-flames-arena-speculation

*Stardust*
Aug 13, 2015, 5:04 AM
It will probably be heavy on conceptual images and pictures of exciting arenas in other cities, with promises of rainbows and unicorns. At the end of it after asking the crowd if they want all the exciting things shown a cap will be passed around asking for donations and the city to fund most of it,

At this point I'll take anything he shows us!

Speaking of donations and funds...

Maybe city council should hold a referendum to decide if tax money should be used for an entertainment complex? If people vote yes, then people can't complain when the city helps fund the project. If no, then thats a clear answer for Ken King that the people have spoken and he and his buddies have to pay for it themselves.

CalgaryAlex
Aug 13, 2015, 2:35 PM
With the tagline "Live, Work, Play", there could be significant residential and office space included in the design. I wonder if the CMLC is involved and will propose an EV-style redevelopment including the Bow Trail realignment?

In any case, I'm excited for Tuesday, but not holding my breath since Ken King is a fat bag of hot air and never seems able to render the courage to perform the big reveal. It's like he develops an incurable stammer as soon as "new arena" is mentioned. So expectations are low, but with it being a live meeting instead of a radio show, more could come to light. Especially when attendees start throwing shit at him, demanding information.

Surferguy
Aug 13, 2015, 5:05 PM
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...na-speculation (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/letter-fuels-flames-arena-speculation)

“It has great potential for tourism. From our sports tourism strategies, it would be a major asset for that,” said Cindy Ady, chief executive officer at Tourism Calgary.

What do you think this statement means? People traveling to attending games, staying at onsite hotels? Or something bigger? Incorporated bus station/future HSR station?

roman
Aug 13, 2015, 5:07 PM
With the Calgary economy in a downturn, it will be a great boost to the city to have this project finally get off the ground and will provide a much needed stimulus.

I am really hoping that the arena and a large enclosed stadium are in the works as this project will transform the west end of downtown and propel Calgary into another level.

Full Mountain
Aug 13, 2015, 5:13 PM
http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...na-speculation (http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/letter-fuels-flames-arena-speculation)

What do you think this statement means? People traveling to attending games, staying at onsite hotels? Or something bigger? Incorporated bus station/future HSR station?

Delusion? Saying an empty box in the middle of a parking lot is a tourist draw is :shrug: :koko:

Surferguy
Aug 13, 2015, 5:22 PM
Delusion? Saying an empty box in the middle of a parking lot is a tourist draw is :shrug: :koko:

I dunno. It seems as if this complex will be more than just a box in a sea of parking. Could be wrong though - cant say I am a insider.

Fuzz
Aug 13, 2015, 5:25 PM
Sounds like he is looking for $200 million of public funds.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/2015/08/12/flames-president-letter-on--calgarynext--project-fuels-arena-spe.html

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 5:27 PM
Delusion? Saying an empty box in the middle of a parking lot is a tourist draw is :shrug: :koko:

A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

Full Mountain
Aug 13, 2015, 5:51 PM
Here's my go at this:

- If they want the west village land, they get to remediate it. From my understanding the future land value and the remediation cost are equal.

- If they want upgraded roads or want to put a significant amount of parking they get to pay for it. Further no parking should be allowed at grade, it should all be structured above or below grade. Potential consideration should be given to restricting parking similar to the downtown core.

- If we are going to provide money for a fieldhouse we should have the equivalent usage time we would have gotten at Foothills (I assume this would be 100%) otherwise the contribution to the project decrease on an exponential curve (X^4 sort of curve, 80% use = Approx. $82M).

- Any pitch that includes economic benefits needs to have the study released in its entirety. However there would have to be a significant change in the basis for this to be anything but scrap paper (i.e. current experience has not shown any distinguishable economic benefits).

Full Mountain
Aug 13, 2015, 5:53 PM
A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

Really? Do we have many of these events currently? Is there a significant potential of attracting other events?

Ramsayfarian
Aug 13, 2015, 5:54 PM
Here's my go at this:

- If they want the west village land, they get to remediate it. From my understanding the future land value and the remediation cost are equal.

- If they want upgraded roads or want to put a significant amount of parking they get to pay for it. Further no parking should be allowed at grade, it should all be structured above or below grade.

- If we are going to provide money for a fieldhouse we should have the equivalent usage time we would have gotten at Foothills (I assume this would be 100%) otherwise the contribution to the project decrease on an exponential curve (X^4 sort of curve, 80% use = Approx. $82M).

- Any pitch that includes economic benefits needs to have the study released in its entirety. However there would have to be a significant change in the basis for this to be anything but scrap paper (i.e. current experience has not shown any distinguishable economic benefits).

That all sounds reasonable.

suburbia
Aug 13, 2015, 5:57 PM
A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

My understanding, including from a couple casual conversations that I can't say more about & you won't believe me anyway, is that the complex is meant to pull in more events than just sports. There are events, for example, that go in the BMO centre, which are okay in the BMO centre but could be better in this type of arrangement. There may also be some types of events that Calgary currently can't bid for that the BMO centre would be stretched for.

O-tacular
Aug 13, 2015, 6:06 PM
Sounds like he is looking for $200 million of public funds.
http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary/2015/08/12/flames-president-letter-on--calgarynext--project-fuels-arena-spe.html

Yep. Exactly what I expected. But he swore up and down they wouldn't be asking Calgarians for money.

Policy Wonk
Aug 13, 2015, 6:09 PM
A part of the field house pitch was drawing in more people for competitions. Lots of hotel room nights when full families travel for multiday events.

Quite a few of the people I worked with in Calgary did a couple of these every year with their kids, but they were always in random little towns in BC or the Inland NW where accommodations and ice were more affordable.

Pavlov
Aug 13, 2015, 6:10 PM
My understanding, including from a couple casual conversations that I can't say more about & you won't believe me anyway, is that the complex is meant to pull in more events than just sports. There are events, for example, that go in the BMO centre, which are okay in the BMO centre but could be better in this type of arrangement. There may also be some types of events that Calgary currently can't bid for that the BMO centre would be stretched for.

This same source has also indicated that the complex will double the number of annual tourist visits to Fire Park.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 6:10 PM
Yep. Exactly what I expected. But he swore up and down they wouldn't be asking Calgarians for money.

That is money for the field-house, which was identified as a priority for funding by city council iirc. If that money can be leveraged into something bigger, then great!

I also expect them to ask for and get the super favourable tax treatment they enjoy in the dome, and an interesting partnership with a CRL to pay for cleanup, LRT upgrades and associated neighbourhood costs.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 6:11 PM
Quite a few of the people I worked with in Calgary did a couple of these every year with their kids, but they were always in random little towns in BC or the Inland NW where accommodations and ice were more affordable.

Well, few places have the infrastructure for indoor javelin!

Ramsayfarian
Aug 13, 2015, 6:26 PM
Well, few places have the infrastructure for indoor javelin!

Not to mention indoor javelin catching. Now that would fill seats.

Bigtime
Aug 13, 2015, 6:32 PM
Time to start discussing the future of the Saddledome? Perhaps a new thread for that?

CorporateWhore
Aug 13, 2015, 6:42 PM
Time to start discussing the future of the Saddledome? Perhaps a new thread for that?

I can't think of any future for the Saddledome that's realistic and financially viable. I think a hot date with a wrecking ball is inevitable.

Wooster
Aug 13, 2015, 7:04 PM
I can't think of any future for the Saddledome that's realistic and financially viable. I think a hot date with a wrecking ball is inevitable.

Water park :)

googspecial
Aug 13, 2015, 7:12 PM
Water park :)

:cheers:

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 7:26 PM
Construction of CalgaryNEXT likely won't start for another three years if approved for downtown west end (http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/08/13/construction-of-calgarynext-likely-wont-start-for-another-three-years-if-approved-for-downtown-west-end)

The source said the Flames organization will finance the arena portion themselves and ask the city to contribute “in the range of $200 million” toward the stadium-fieldhouse, which will be home to the Stampeders for games and practices and otherwise be open for public use.

Innersoul1
Aug 13, 2015, 7:55 PM
Okay, here is what I think.

The field house concept is a unique one and in order for it to work for a proper stadium it will have to be executed perfectly. Consider what the height of the roof would have to be in order to accommodate punts and soccer goalies booting the ball, oh and javelin throwing ;) Add to this a concourse that would need to be functional for both food and beverage and washroom facilities and i really think that it's a big ask. Google the worlds largest field house or multi-sport facility and nothing really comes up. Because the facilities don't really exist. The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.
http://internationalcup.alkass.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Aspire-Dome-from-above.jpg Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Aspire_dome_Doha.jpg Credit: Wikipedia

I also think that the prospect of a summer Olympic games in Calgary is WAY out of the question. If Calgarians don't have an appetite for tax funded venues then the Olympics are in no way going to happen here. The number of venues needed for a summer games are well beyond what ever this NEXT project might be. No point going there.

I agree that a fieldhouse has the ability to attract tourism dollars in the form of both amateur and elite sports. There is a shortage of venues for sure. Think of International Friendly soccer games and what the draw for something like that might be.

I am very curious to see what happens Tuesday. I am also hoping someone calls King out for being so Vague. Let's call this the Ryugyong Arena project :P

s211
Aug 13, 2015, 7:58 PM
Water park :)

Didn't one of the Montreal expo facilities get repurposed as a biodome or something along that line?

suburbia
Aug 13, 2015, 8:06 PM
The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.
http://internationalcup.alkass.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Aspire-Dome-from-above.jpg Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Aspire_dome_Doha.jpg Credit: Wikipedia

That looks like only a 200m track, and not even full size.

That being said, I don't think we discount it just because something exactly like what would be needed doesn't exist. Heck, our Olympic Oval has a 440M track around the perimeter with some stands, a long jump pit and the rest of it. It also has an artificial surface they've laid out for soccer games in the past. What it doesn't have is proper washroom facilities, entry and exit bandwidth and nor a proper reception / lobby / concourse area, HVAC and seating beyond 4K, but the structure is interesting. The Richmond Oval is much better on many fronts (concourse, washrooms, entry/exit bandwidth), and perhaps that is a starting point touchstone. More seats means higher roof, so those items are integrated and not much of an issue.

These two structures, in addition to actual field-houses, may actually help our imaginations.

Of course, what do I know.

MalcolmTucker
Aug 13, 2015, 8:17 PM
Okay, here is what I think.

The field house concept is a unique one and in order for it to work for a proper stadium it will have to be executed perfectly. Consider what the height of the roof would have to be in order to accommodate punts and soccer goalies booting the ball, oh and javelin throwing ;) Add to this a concourse that would need to be functional for both food and beverage and washroom facilities and i really think that it's a big ask. Google the worlds largest field house or multi-sport facility and nothing really comes up. Because the facilities don't really exist. The closest I could find is is the Aspire Zone in Doha Qatar and more specifically the Aspire Dome.
http://internationalcup.alkass.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Aspire-Dome-from-above.jpg Credit: http://internationalcup.alkass.net/
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/Aspire_dome_Doha.jpg Credit: Wikipedia

I also think that the prospect of a summer Olympic games in Calgary is WAY out of the question. If Calgarians don't have an appetite for tax funded venues then the Olympics are in no way going to happen here. The number of venues needed for a summer games are well beyond what ever this NEXT project might be. No point going there.

I agree that a fieldhouse has the ability to attract tourism dollars in the form of both amateur and elite sports. There is a shortage of venues for sure. Think of International Friendly soccer games and what the draw for something like that might be.

I am very curious to see what happens Tuesday. I am also hoping someone calls King out for being so Vague. Let's call this the Ryugyong Arena project :P

Here is the The City of Birmingham's CrossPlex's field-house with a 200m track:

https://uabrecsports.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/crossplex-state-indoor-tr-2.jpg
Source: https://uabrecsports.wordpress.com/tag/uab/

Hydraulically actuated track so it can switch to banked curves and back.
Floor layout:
http://i.imgur.com/1juhiZp.png
source: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/albr/sports/w-track/auto_pdf/2011-12/misc_non_event/CrossPlex.pdf

North Dakota's is larger, with a 300m track, more like the concept shown by the fieldhouse society:
http://www.iconarchitects.com/images/projectImages/und-indoor2.jpg
source: http://www.iconarchitects.com/projects/masterplan/indoor-practice-facility.html

http://www.iconarchitects.com/images/projectImages/und-indoor3.jpg
source: http://www.iconarchitects.com/projects/masterplan/indoor-practice-facility.html

Of course, as the track, and then room for spectators gets longer, the roof span gets longer too. And what is it, double the length, quadruple the complexity right?