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GoflamesGo
Jan 17, 2009, 5:40 AM
I thought I would start a thread to discuss the possibilities. I know we're probably a few years away from even seeing any concepts, but I think it woudl be good to discuss it.

What would you like to see?

Where would you locate it?

How much Capacity?

Personally I would love to see it either in the east village, or along Macleod trail and 17th. I think its crucial to create an inviting pedestrian atmosphere around it complete with some pubs, restaurants, shops etc. I also think they they should increase the capacity. Unfortunatly they're probably going to make it around 18000 seats, with more luxury boxes. I would love to see around 25000 seats, but only 20000 of them being of the "cushioned type" and a 3rd bowl of nosebleeds composed of a bleacher type system where seats are cheap, and the masses could go and enjoy a game.

GO FLAMES GO

jeffwhit
Jan 17, 2009, 7:07 AM
I'd like to see it on 17th and McLeod, on the Stampede Park side, basically a little north of the current Big Four, with an integrated C-Train Station underground, and 17th Ave carrying through onto the grounds.

Distill3d
Jan 17, 2009, 7:18 AM
I've always wanted to see McMahon Stadium and the Saddledome closer together. however that is highly unlikely to happen as there is little room near McMahon to build an NHL sized arena and the NIMBYs around McMahon would pitch a fit.

unibrain
Jan 17, 2009, 7:19 AM
I think the most ideal would be the coral site.. love it or hate it, I think that location is the most central, and could be integrated into the conference facilities complete with a new atrium entry. The DP is now in for the Stampede expansion... and from the looks of it, there's no provision of any underground parking or structure to facilitate a new stadium there in the future... looks like it's probably going to be on the site of the Big4 (with possible major disruption to the Stampede during construction) should it stay on the Stampede grounds.

unibrain
Jan 17, 2009, 7:21 AM
I've always wanted to see McMahon Stadium and the Saddledome closer together. however that is highly unlikely to happen as there is little room near McMahon to build an NHL sized arena and the NIMBYs around McMahon would pitch a fit.

I would like to see the Railtown developers pitch an idea to have a new stadium built on their lands, and they get to build condos/retail/office components around it with density transfered into taller buildings around the site.

Joborule
Jan 17, 2009, 7:45 AM
I've always wanted to see McMahon Stadium and the Saddledome closer together. however that is highly unlikely to happen as there is little room near McMahon to build an NHL sized arena and the NIMBYs around McMahon would pitch a fit.

I was always thinking that if the Greyhound land was ever available, that could be an potential spot for a new football stadium.

Distill3d
Jan 17, 2009, 7:59 AM
I was always thinking that if the Greyhound land was ever available, that could be an potential spot for a new football stadium.

i believe i can support you in that decision. in the area between 15 Street SW and Pumphouse Avenue SW (east/west boundry) and Bow Trail/9 Avenue SW and Bow Trail/5 Avenue SW (north/south boundry), there's enough room there for both a new NHL arena and CFL stadium. plus it has the added bonus of being both downtown and along the planned WLRT line.

Dafunk
Jan 17, 2009, 8:21 AM
i believe i can support you in that decision. in the area between 15 Street SW and Pumphouse Avenue SW (east/west boundry) and Bow Trail/9 Avenue SW and Bow Trail/5 Avenue SW (north/south boundry), there's enough room there for both a new NHL arena and CFL stadium. plus it has the added bonus of being both downtown and along the planned WLRT line.



Thats a great idea, and a great location. Worse come worse, it will have to been at the Big 4 area, but it would be nice for this location. A little off topic I also kinda wish we had a Central Station type concept in Greyhound lands where the c-train, "subway", inner city buses, grey hound intracity buses, and maybe the future high speed train from Edmonton to Calgary would all interject in one complex. That area would be transportation central for the city.

In the future city stadium, it would be nice to definitely have high density around with, with shops, restaurants and big business all around, along with some condo developments. A stadium like Wembley would be awesome, where the interior can easily be reconfigured in the stadium to support a variety of stage settings for different concerts, shows, and presentations. Also an adjacent smaller concert hall (maybe the size of the Jubillee) would be nice to have right beside the stadium. The Heinekin Music Hall was located right beside the giant Ajax stadium Amsterdam Arena, which allowed for simultaneous concerts and performances to happen. The Heinekin Music Hall was much smaller with a capacity of 2000-3000 people, but it allowed for more intimate concerts. The accoustics of the Music Hall are suppose to be some of the best in the world. I saw both Missy Elliot, and Ben Harper in the Heinekin Music Hall, which was fantastic.

Also, on a side note. An open air concert venue would be nice in East Side Village. It could even support the crappy, but growing, Virgin Music Festival that came to Calgary last year. Montreal has tons of free concerts, and it would be great to have similar concerts in such a venue. Maybe they could even replace the Cocacola stage during the Stampede with this venue too. The possibilities are endless with a medium size open area concert area.

Also, does anybody else want an Opera House in our city? Its about time we had one. Ive got to reiterate again what a friend told me once. He's the chief director of the Scandenavian Opera and Ballet association, stating that a city will never be true cultural and thriving city, without an Opera House. Maybe this Opera House can be worked into the new stadium.
________
CX500 (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Honda_CX500)

Wooster
Jan 17, 2009, 5:37 PM
I'd like to see it on 17th and McLeod, on the Stampede Park side, basically a little north of the current Big Four, with an integrated C-Train Station underground, and 17th Ave carrying through onto the grounds.

I agree with Jeff - Stampede will always be the best location. If you move it away, even to somewhere like the greyhound lands - the relationship between 17th ave and Saddledome is lost.

Another thing is that you will need some degree of surface parking to go along with a major arena. Stampede Grounds, already have this and always will - it will be there arena or not. If you build it somewhere else, you'd have to build new parking to go along with it. Best to take advantage of parking that's always going to be there anyway.

Calgarian
Jan 17, 2009, 6:49 PM
Either where the Big 4 is, or somewhere in the east village, and make sure we leave room for a future 80 000 seat foot ball stadium (pipe dream).

craner
Jan 17, 2009, 10:05 PM
I've always wanted to see McMahon Stadium and the Saddledome closer together.
:previous: That's a great idea - I've never considered before. That way a really "dynamic sports district" with pubs, shops, etc. and condo towers of course (this is SSP after all) could be developed.
I have thought a new football stadium would be good on the GSL site but I think if it was going to be combined with a new hockey arena it has to go near the Stampede grounds or the east village.
Assuming the new arena goes on the Stampede grounds I really hope they do put the LRT station inside the building - underground would be great. I really like the idea of extending 17th Ave. into the grounds as well.:tup:

401_King
Jan 17, 2009, 10:16 PM
just a question, why would calgary need a new arena? isnt the saddledome pretty good?

frinkprof
Jan 17, 2009, 10:30 PM
^To tap into new revenue streams (hotel, restaurants, retail, etc.). This sort of thing is necessary in today's sports market.

The Saddledome has served Calgary well, but once Edmonton's and Pittsburgh's new arenas are built, the Saddledome will be the 5th oldest building behind Nassau Coliseum (which needs to be replaced or the Islanders may be moved), and Madison Square Garden (a true icon), Detroit's Joe Louis Arena, and Washington's US Airways Arena.

At any rate, despite the potential loss of what some long-time fans see as irreplaceable in the Saddledome, its replacement is inevitable. Even Yankee Stadium, Maple Leaf Gardens, and the Montreal Forum were replaced, after all.

Also, good on whichever mod deleted the unnecessary posts made earlier.

Coldrsx
Jan 17, 2009, 11:01 PM
on the bow's incompleted site...

ok ok i kid

Distill3d
Jan 18, 2009, 12:14 AM
just a question, why would calgary need a new arena? isnt the saddledome pretty good?

no renderings or official plans have been released, but the Flames have said that they will be moving at the end of their current lease at the Saddledome. it ends in 2014, so that is plenty of time to discuss, design, and develop.

Calgarian
Jan 18, 2009, 12:20 AM
The biggest reason for a new rink is more box seats.

Hawker
Jan 18, 2009, 12:43 AM
^To tap into new revenue streams (hotel, restaurants, retail, etc.). This sort of thing is necessary in today's sports market.

The Saddledome has served Calgary well, but once Edmonton's and Pittsburgh's new arenas are built, the Saddledome will be the 5th oldest building behind Nassau Coliseum (which needs to be replaced or the Islanders may be moved), and Madison Square Garden (a true icon), Detroit's Joe Louis Arena, and Washington's US Airways Arena.

At any rate, despite the potential loss of what some long-time fans see as irreplaceable in the Saddledome, its replacement is inevitable. Even Yankee Stadium, Maple Leaf Gardens, and the Montreal Forum were replaced, after all.

Also, good on whichever mod deleted the unnecessary posts made earlier.

US Airways was demolished years ago.

The plan is to have the new Flames arena on the site of the Big 4 building. The Flames lease on the Dome is done in 2014, so at least prelim work would have to start by about 2011.

Distill3d
Jan 18, 2009, 1:17 AM
US Airways was demolished years ago.

The plan is to have the new Flames arena on the site of the Big 4 building. The Flames lease on the Dome is done in 2014, so at least prelim work would have to start by about 2011.

an arena and construction of an arena that size is going to take out a massive chunk of the Stampede midway. potentially eliminating such attractions on the grounds as Weddickville and the Coca-Cola Stage. why would they even consider building on that section of the grounds?

the only two places i could think of closer to the grounds that doesn't currently have a planned development that would be suitable for an NHL arena would be the Victoria Park bus barn, and if you designed it carefully enough the area between the river and 25 Avenue at Erlton station.

GoflamesGo
Jan 18, 2009, 1:52 AM
Is there room to put up an arena on the corner of 12th and macleod. Where there is a ton of surface parking right now. What if they were to build a few levels of underground parking beneath the arena?

mersar
Jan 18, 2009, 2:08 AM
Part of the stampede redevelopment plans call for relocating the Coca-cola stage to a new Amphitheater that will be build nearer the Elbow River and for 17th Avenue to run into the grounds, which will pretty much force relocating Weddickville anyways.

As for the corner of 12th and Macleod, possibly, the one issue would be that theres already some underground stuff there in the form of the access to the Casino parkade, and that it would fill up pretty much everything and cut it off from parking as theres essentially a wall of buildings between that area and the other parking lots on 12th, and of course to the main parking area south of the corral.

Joborule
Jan 18, 2009, 4:03 AM
http://calgarystampede.com/upload/media_element/43/01/smp-sp01_masterplan_2008-03-04.pdf

Where the big four building was previously is the ideal spot for the Saddledome. The spot named 'Additional Exhibition Space.'

That should be enough space for an arena. The coke stage would be moved south of it. The place is getting crowed though for midway. Can something the size of the Saddledome still be functional for something? Or should it be removed to have more space and alternative development? What do you guys think the future of the Saddledome should be?

mwalker_mw
Jan 18, 2009, 4:08 PM
With the dual arena it would be possible to split the Flames / Hitman / Roughnecks between them allowing for more non-sporting use of the arenas. Concerts, trade-shows, events, etc. could be more actively pursued as sources of revenue. The dome's removable seating allows for a good amount of clear floorspace (I wonder if the new building would have the capability for international size ice?). I'm not sure about the economic feasibility of this, but I believe it is fairly common in other markets.

re: parking
I believe the plan is for extensive underground parking to be included in the redevelopment. The desire is to make Stampede Park actually look like a park and to eliminate a significant portion of the surface parking.

I wish they would post a few more details on their site but it looks promising, even with what is there now. Stampede Park will not look like Stampeded Park in 10 years.

Distill3d
Jan 19, 2009, 3:40 AM
With the dual arena it would be possible to split the Flames / Hitman / Roughnecks between them allowing for more non-sporting use of the arenas. Concerts, trade-shows, events, etc. could be more actively pursued as sources of revenue. The dome's removable seating allows for a good amount of clear floorspace (I wonder if the new building would have the capability for international size ice?). I'm not sure about the economic feasibility of this, but I believe it is fairly common in other markets.

re: parking
I believe the plan is for extensive underground parking to be included in the redevelopment. The desire is to make Stampede Park actually look like a park and to eliminate a significant portion of the surface parking.

I wish they would post a few more details on their site but it looks promising, even with what is there now. Stampede Park will not look like Stampeded Park in 10 years.

i agree that having a dual arena will allow for both Flames games and other events to be happening at once. that would be a spectacular idea.

however, turning Stampede Park look like an actual park will just ruin the Stampede. all one has to do to look at an example of this is take a look west to our PNE grounds. the city has been doing good job of making it look like a park, but it also takes away from having a respectable Stampede sized fair.

mwalker_mw
Jan 19, 2009, 5:38 AM
I think they plan to keep the SW corner as usable fairground type area (likely with pavement) - but that doesn't mean it has to be a parking lot. That being said, it is likely they will keep some of it as surface parking given the cash cow that must be for them ($11/entrance throughout the year) - as business density in the area increases I can only see that going up.

I think with a little care a nice balance can be struck between hard surface areas and greenspace. More important to me is the reduction in vehicle traffic as opposed to the actual increase in grass and trees (although that will be nice too). Not sure if you've ever been to the grounds in the winter but it is an absolute wasteland when it gets cold and snowy. Anything that acts as a windbreak, either building or tree, will be most welcome.

Wooster
Jan 19, 2009, 3:04 PM
^ Definitely - I agree.

freeweed
Jan 19, 2009, 5:14 PM
1. Stampede park is the only option in my mind. Anywhere else is just going back to mistakes made over the past decades in other cities (hi Ottawa fans!).

2. To answer "isn't the Saddledome good enough?" - sure, if you don't know any better. I've just had the chance to see an NHL game in 2 newer arenas (Anaheim and Tampa Bay) and all I can say is WOW. Their worst nosebleed seats are better than the Saddledome's upper 2nd level seats. Arena designs since about 1990 or so have made tremendous progress. I don't mind the nosebleeds at the 'Dome but again, wow - I'd kill for our nosebleeds to have such great visibility.

Distill3d
Jan 19, 2009, 10:35 PM
1. Stampede park is the only option in my mind. Anywhere else is just going back to mistakes made over the past decades in other cities (hi Ottawa fans!)

i disagree. anywhere outside of the downtown core would be a mistake. constructing a new arena on the Stampede grounds takes up a lot of room that just isn't there.

Wooster
Jan 19, 2009, 11:40 PM
^Assuming the existing saddledome would come down, the net gain/loss in space would be zero. There's plenty of space on the Stampede lands.

Innersoul1
Jan 20, 2009, 12:09 AM
We know that the lease at the Saddledome ends in 2014 so certainly any decision made on the location would need to based on the timeliness of obtaining the land. I feel that the Stampede needs the Flames as much as the Flames need the Stampede. As much as I like the idea of the Greyhound site (the notion of an arena as a gateway to downtown is stunning, but the pedestrian and traffic access concerns me) I think that land cost could be surprising and acces would be trickly.

I like the big four site, I think that it has lot of potential. It would appear that the Stampede board wants the grounds to become a hub of sorts, entertainment, conferences, hotels etc. So having an arena onsite would be fantastic. I think that if the new arena were to bridge the LRT tracks there is a strong potential for great pedestrian access and a revitalization of the east end of 17th ave.

The PDF map of the expansion shows that the distance from the existing Stampede station would not be too far, which is great. I have said in past threads on this topic that it would FANTASTIC to have a station incorporated into the new arena itself. It would not have to be used fulltime but maybe just for game nights and big concert nights.

As for the Arena itself I see it being around 18,000-21,000 for hockey. The bottom line is that there are going to be WAY more corporate boxes. HOK will likely be the designer as they are ACES with this stuff! But really believe that there will be a number of low cost 500 level seats with great sight lines (see Bell Centre). The Bell Centre is a very well deigned arena. I am partial to the Desjardin Club (essentially the box seats and fhigh end seats) where all the food is included in the price of the ticket. It is a neat concet. Although it is a bit different, i like the way the Philips Arena in Atlanta was done with the boxes all on one side. It makes for one end of the building that can be fancied up for the high end user.

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/AtlantaThrashers/suites.jpg

I imagine that since this arena will be largely privately funded that we will see an entertainment centre as well with a smaller concert venue along with some sort of convention space. The Staples centre in LA would be a good model for this kind of facility (Seats 18,997, 2500 club seats, 160 boxes). Attached is the Nokia theatre that seats just over 7000 people. I think that a concert venue of this size would be great as part of the arena and for the city.

http://www.letner.com/hrgall/nokia6783a.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Nokia_Theatre_Los_Angeles_interior.jpg/350px-Nokia_Theatre_Los_Angeles_interior.jpg

As for the Saddledome, it has potential for many things. I doubt that we will see it being used for the Hitmen or Roughnecks (although there is a small chance it would happen). Quite simply put the operational costs of running 2 18,000+ arenas just don't make sense. The Flames are free of the Saddledome lease and I don't think that the Stampede would want to absorb the costs. That being said, if the concert venue doesn't happen at the new arena some modifications to the building could make it useful for a small concert venue around 8000 capacity.

That being said, the long term viability of the Corral is limited. This I could SERIOUSLY see the Stampede modifying the dome into a year round rodeo facility. If it were used as a full time rodeo and indor riding facility it could be used for Rodeo Royal and other events. I am not sure how the Canadian finals Rodeo works but if it could somehow be moved to a "full time rodeo venue" in Calgary that would be great.

Anyway, just some thoughts. I could talk about this all day

frinkprof
Jan 20, 2009, 12:23 AM
^Great post.

Ayreonaut
Jan 20, 2009, 12:30 AM
Indeed...indeed.

Innersoul1
Jan 20, 2009, 12:38 AM
Thanks Lads!

I will also add that the Sprint Centre in Kansas was very well executed:

http://www.visitkc.com/mediaroom/ImageLibrary/Sprint_Center_LR.jpg

Distill3d
Jan 20, 2009, 1:17 AM
the Sprint Center would look magnificent on the Greyhound site next to University of Phoenix Stadium:

http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/ArizonaCardinals/turf.jpg
photo credit: ballparks.com (http://www.ballparks.com)

Hawker
Jan 20, 2009, 3:04 AM
the Sprint Center would look magnificent on the Greyhound site next to University of Phoenix Stadium:

http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/ArizonaCardinals/turf.jpg
photo credit: ballparks.com (http://www.ballparks.com)

You don't like the arena that is already pretty much next to U of Phoenix Stadium?

http://www.atkservices.com/images/jobing_com.jpg

freeweed
Jan 20, 2009, 4:43 AM
Thanks Lads!

I will also add that the Sprint Centre in Kansas was very well executed:

http://www.visitkc.com/mediaroom/ImageLibrary/Sprint_Center_LR.jpg

Kansas City. Kansas is an entire state (which oddly, Kansas City isn't in). ;)

The Sprint Center is absolutely fantastic; it has to be seen in person to be believed. Amazing that Americans will build facilities like this when they don't even have anything to put in it, while we argue for decades over whether or not to build ANYTHING for our existing teams.

What, me a bitter Jets fan? :hell:

frinkprof
Jan 20, 2009, 4:55 AM
^http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/index.php?title=Kansas_City_Whatevers

wild wild west
Jan 20, 2009, 3:01 PM
I love Sprint Centre. Whatever gets built for the Flames - if we're going to copy something, let's copy that.

Wooster
Jan 20, 2009, 3:40 PM
^http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/index.php?title=Kansas_City_Whatevers

I love sports argument wiki! :haha:

Innersoul1
Jan 20, 2009, 6:41 PM
Kansas City. Kansas is an entire state (which oddly, Kansas City isn't in). ;)

The Sprint Center is absolutely fantastic; it has to be seen in person to be believed. Amazing that Americans will build facilities like this when they don't even have anything to put in it, while we argue for decades over whether or not to build ANYTHING for our existing teams.

What, me a bitter Jets fan? :hell:

hahaha I know that it is in Kansas city...I was rushing out of work when I typed that... I figured the masses would get the point :D

reflexzero
Jan 20, 2009, 8:45 PM
hmm.. how about some engineer's wet dream.. a huge sporting complex that spans the riverbanks at Edworthy Park, and includes a bridge from Shaganappi @ 16th ave to Bow Trail @ Sarcee so I don't have to spend an extra 15 minutes travelling sarcee to 16th ave to get to Shaganappi from Bow trail every freaking day.

Well, I know, this post is maddeningly unhelpful.

How about between the Airport and the new Balzac mall? :)

jeffwhit
Jan 20, 2009, 10:25 PM
I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.

Innersoul1
Jan 20, 2009, 10:43 PM
I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.

I am totally with you on this one. I think that as the years go by there will be less of a focus on the Midway at the Stampede. I feel that the entertainment will diversify, thus the rides and games will become more spread out.

Just a question. On the Stampede ground PDF what is the building that will be going in in the middle of the track? Any ideas?



Oh and might I add that it would be great if the arena had some sort of practice facility (ice included) where the Flames could hold practices.

Beltliner
Jan 20, 2009, 10:59 PM
Never mind the new arena, folks--I just want some assurance that the $22.40 the McMahon Stadium Society just tacked onto my Grey Cup tickets is going to go into sprucing up the place. :D

Innersoul1
Jan 20, 2009, 11:08 PM
Never mind the new arena, folks--I just want some assurance that the $22.40 the McMahon Stadium Society just tacked onto my Grey Cup tickets is going to go into sprucing up the place. :D

I sat in the McMahon Stadium Society box this year and got into some discussions with the guys about the renovations and such. Much of the attention is going to the West stand where they are adding on to the dressing rooms along with the concourse.

Unfortunately, there was not enough time before the Grey Cup to tear down the existing scoreboard locker rooms and offices. Although from what I understand time wasn't an issue as much as funds were. I think that after the Grey cup this year we wil see the serious renos come to fruition!

mersar
Jan 20, 2009, 11:27 PM
I sat in the McMahon Stadium Society box this year and got into some discussions with the guys about the renovations and such. Much of the attention is going to the West stand where they are adding on to the dressing rooms along with the concourse.

Unfortunately, there was not enough time before the Grey Cup to tear down the existing scoreboard locker rooms and offices. Although from what I understand time wasn't an issue as much as funds were. I think that after the Grey cup this year we wil see the serious renos come to fruition!

Let's hope. I do know they've been working quite a bit on the west side, one day last week they had a half dozen concrete trucks and 2 pumps working on the NW corner of the stadium pumping to somewhere inside. Most of the work around the exterior looks to be pretty much done (such as the new block of what appears to be offices on the SW corner)

Distill3d
Jan 21, 2009, 12:17 AM
I really don't think that the new saddledome (or whatever it ends up being,) is going to leave the Stampede Grounds. The Stampede is going to want to have a 18-21k arena at their disposal, (that is an essential part of their long term plans to be a year-round destination and the city is not going to want to operate an arena without the Flames as a tenant. The space, transit connections, parking are already in place. It would be asinine to relocate the Flames away from the Stampede Grounds and I would be dead against it. Look at the satellite image of the grounds, there is certainly enough room north of the usual midway for the Stampede to operate in a reorganized configuration for a couple years.

I'd also like to see something that has a proper street level interface on, not something on it's own surrounding by a sea of parking.

there are several spots in the area that would be suitable for a 18 - 21K arena. and who is to say that the dome wouldn't still be used in some capacity, potentially with the Roughnecks and the Hitmen as the main attractions. it will also be used to other events throughout the year, so it not being a year round destination is asinine.

I am totally with you on this one. I think that as the years go by there will be less of a focus on the Midway at the Stampede. I feel that the entertainment will diversify, thus the rides and games will become more spread out.

Just a question. On the Stampede ground PDF what is the building that will be going in in the middle of the track? Any ideas?

Oh and might I add that it would be great if the arena had some sort of practice facility (ice included) where the Flames could hold practices.

speaking from experience, the Midway at the Stampede is for the teenagers who aren't old enough to get into Nashville North and the other random beer gardens throughout the grounds. they aren't really interested in seeing the paintings and exposition stuff inside the buildings, they really only go in there because they're air conditioned.

Innersoul1
Jan 22, 2009, 12:11 AM
So last night I was killing some time while waiting to pick up my wife so I took a closer look at the Greyhound/GSL site. While I agree that it would be a really cool site for a rink and maybe even a stadium I just don't think there is enough room. There needs to be surface parking and/or some sort of parking structure. I think that once you build the arena there just won't be room.

Now I understand that less parking means that more people can take the train but there are two big issues with this. The LRT just isn't comprehensive as a means for everyone in all conrners of the city to get to the game and there are a large chunk of people who drive from out of town and such to the games. With parking also comes revenue and limiting parking limits revenue.

Additionally, as far as pedestrian access goes it is a poor site. Overall, it's disconnect from downtown means that there aren't the restaurants, bars, pubs and clubs to support the arena and the fans.

Jay in Cowtown
Jan 22, 2009, 1:08 AM
How about between the Airport and the new Balzac mall? :)

I'm in!

better yet, build it in Cochrane. :tup:

Distill3d
Jan 22, 2009, 1:18 AM
So last night I was killing some time while waiting to pick up my wife so I took a closer look at the Greyhound/GSL site. While I agree that it would be a really cool site for a rink and maybe even a stadium I just don't think there is enough room. There needs to be surface parking and/or some sort of parking structure. I think that once you build the arena there just won't be room.

Now I understand that less parking means that more people can take the train but there are two big issues with this. The LRT just isn't comprehensive as a means for everyone in all conrners of the city to get to the game and there are a large chunk of people who drive from out of town and such to the games. With parking also comes revenue and limiting parking limits revenue.

Additionally, as far as pedestrian access goes it is a poor site. Overall, it's disconnect from downtown means that there aren't the restaurants, bars, pubs and clubs to support the arena and the fans.



http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j155/starfcuk/grounds2.jpg

i personally think that it could be built on that site with surface parking included in both the stadium and arena lots, but also additional parking off to the side where the Chrysler dealer currently sits and next to the Pumphouse Theater location.

however, i do agree that it is a poor location for pedestrian access and it is somewhat disconnected from the restaurants and bars downtown. however, it is not far from 17 Avenue via 14 Street.

additionally, with transit being built to the area, the downtown free fare zone could be extended as far as the site. i know personally when i'm in town to see a game, i'd rather save the $10 it takes to park at the Saddledome, and park at 39 Avenue Park and Ride or near McMahon Stadium and take the C-Train. i also know that a good portion of the crowd thinks the same way.

freeweed
Jan 22, 2009, 7:48 AM
i know personally when i'm in town to see a game, i'd rather save the $10 it takes to park at the Saddledome, and park at 39 Avenue Park and Ride or near McMahon Stadium and take the C-Train. i also know that a good portion of the crowd thinks the same way.

Put 2 or more people in your car and parking suddenly makes more sense ($2.50 transit fare x4 = $10). Although parking is $12 now in Stampede park, it still is cheaper to drive than transit if you go with 3 or more people.

And carpooling is how responsible people drive, right? ;)

drew
Jan 22, 2009, 2:17 PM
Put 2 or more people in your car and parking suddenly makes more sense ($2.50 transit fare x4 = $10). Although parking is $12 now in Stampede park, it still is cheaper to drive than transit if you go with 3 or more people.

And carpooling is how responsible people drive, right? ;)

You aren't factoring in gas and vehicle wear and tear. You can't equate transit fare to parking fare.

freeweed
Jan 22, 2009, 3:01 PM
You aren't factoring in gas and vehicle wear and tear. You can't equate transit fare to parking fare.

And you aren't factoring in time and convenience. Gas for me from the extreme NW of Calgary and back is about $2 on a bad day, and wear and tear? That's what a warranty and a good car is for - ie: I haven't had to put a dime in extra "wear and tear" anything on my cars in years, beyond regular timely maintenance which isn't relevant to driving distance. 3 people in my car is still cheaper than transit, and far more convenient with fewer drunk assholes pushing me around on the train.

Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.

Stang
Jan 22, 2009, 3:53 PM
Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.

I had this exact same conversation last night on the way back from the game (on the train to my car downtown, ironically).

Even if you throw in a couple of bucks for gas, a few cents for tire wear, miscellaneous wear and tear, etc. etc. the difference is pretty nominal if there's two of you. If you're on your own, definitely more cost effective. Three of you or more? Driving looks pretty appealing, especially if using the train would require driving to a park n' ride anyway.

I realize that there are all sorts of other variables on both sides of the equation (waiting to get out of Victoria Park, waiting on the platform for a train, etc.), but at the end of the day the average user is going to look at how much time each option will take, and how much it is going to cost.

Me&You
Jan 22, 2009, 4:33 PM
I had this exact same conversation last night on the way back from the game (on the train to my car downtown, ironically).

Even if you throw in a couple of bucks for gas, a few cents for tire wear, miscellaneous wear and tear, etc. etc. the difference is pretty nominal if there's two of you. If you're on your own, definitely more cost effective. Three of you or more? Driving looks pretty appealing, especially if using the train would require driving to a park n' ride anyway.

I realize that there are all sorts of other variables on both sides of the equation (waiting to get out of Victoria Park, waiting on the platform for a train, etc.), but at the end of the day the average user is going to look at how much time each option will take, and how much it is going to cost.

Or you could park at one of the lots west of the dome in the 17th Macleod area... Pay $10, walk straight out, get in and drive straight away. I've never understood why anyone would park on the grounds (or even in the Saddledome parkade VIP crap) when the wait to get out is so horrendous.

freeweed
Jan 22, 2009, 5:13 PM
Or you could park at one of the lots west of the dome in the 17th Macleod area... Pay $10, walk straight out, get in and drive straight away. I've never understood why anyone would park on the grounds (or even in the Saddledome parkade VIP crap) when the wait to get out is so horrendous.

Because hockey season takes place in the winter, and walking 10-15 minutes in -25 isn't most people's idea of fun just to save $2.

Obviously it's not usually that cold but for me I like to make a night of it, which generally involves visiting the Casino or one of the various things close to the Stampede grounds (restaurant/pub/etc). I've never waited for traffic after a Flames game, but that's because I don't try to flee right after the game along with most people.

Now that the Casino is on the north side, it's fantastic - that parking is almost never full, and getting out is a breeze as it's right on the very edge of traffic. The parking by the Big 4 building or the parkade? I totally agree with you. You can sit for half an hour in your car easily.

Distill3d
Jan 22, 2009, 6:55 PM
And you aren't factoring in time and convenience. Gas for me from the extreme NW of Calgary and back is about $2 on a bad day, and wear and tear? That's what a warranty and a good car is for - ie: I haven't had to put a dime in extra "wear and tear" anything on my cars in years, beyond regular timely maintenance which isn't relevant to driving distance. 3 people in my car is still cheaper than transit, and far more convenient with fewer drunk assholes pushing me around on the train.

Besides the fact that the person I was responding to SPECIFICALLY INDICATED HE WAS ALREADY DRIVING MOST OF THE DISTANCE.

Wow, this old chestnut just won't die. Driving is always stupid and transit is always awesome, yeah, we've heard it before.

i have to agree, the factor of gas and vehicle wear and tear is a non-factor. 9/10 times i'm in town i'm driving a rental, so i don't care about the wear and tear or the fuel prices. carpooling to the games saves on parking costs, but i'd still rather fight the crowds walking and on the sardine can C-Train than in a vehicle.

which parking lot i use depends on where i am staying in the city. if i stay at my mom's in Montgomery, i park near McMahon (the upper deck lot of that little strip mall is wonderful, and still free!! one of the hidden gems in Calgary) if i stay at my ex's in Haysboro, i park at 39 Avenue (sometimes even Chinook Mall). if i stay at a hotel downtown, i usually walk. but thats my situation, and everyone else is unique.

parking does generate revenue, i agree with that. however, i disagree that there needs to be a tonne of surface parking when you can build parking structures and have the same amount of parking on 3 or 4 levels as you can on one.

Bigtime
Apr 13, 2009, 4:27 PM
More talk of this today at The Herald: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Sports/setting+Alberta+Rinks/1488917/story.html

mersar
Apr 13, 2009, 5:31 PM
Bringing this over from the construction thread...

Would it be possible to have the LRT tracks buried all the way from where they come out from cemetery hill to where they go under 12th ave? Might as well do the whole thing, no?

Thats one possibility, and likely the best way to do it but it will be expensive. It would be almost the same length as the downtown subway (14 blocks roughly, though it is against the shorter side of the blocks). Not to mention that it would also require going under the Elbow, which would likely force them to bore a part of the tunnel. And kyle pointed out a good point with the crossing at 26th that would probably be a show stopper.

Even if they just stick underground from 12th and come back above before the river it could still be north of $100M for the stretch based on common costs for similar projects. Depending on the depth of the station it should fit, we've estimated in the past that there needs to be about 100m from the portal entrance to get to grade, so if the new portal was at the south edge of the Big 4 it should fit with a 4 (or 5) LRV platform pretty much where the Big 4 is currently.

CanadianTurbo
Apr 13, 2009, 5:41 PM
I wish that would have been done from the get go, would really improve traffic flow at Macleod and 25th Ave as that can be a tough intersection with all the train traffic.

I understand the cost would be great, what about the idea of making a single station instead of both Stampede and Erlton, with maybe some underground walk ways or something like that to connect all the venues and areas.

Tobyoby
Apr 13, 2009, 6:50 PM
I wish that would have been done from the get go, would really improve traffic flow at Macleod and 25th Ave as that can be a tough intersection with all the train traffic.

I understand the cost would be great, what about the idea of making a single station instead of both Stampede and Erlton, with maybe some underground walk ways or something like that to connect all the venues and areas.

I believe there is a plan to combine the two stations. It won't be underground though.

Doug_Cgy
Apr 14, 2009, 3:57 AM
GAWD I hope this happens...I'm soooo over the Saddledome;) Maybe they'll build a stadium with decent seats, that can host large concerts & events without roof issues, and build in an area of DT that needs revitalization (i.e East Village)

Calgarian
Apr 14, 2009, 4:06 AM
I'm all for it as long as they keep the Saddledome.

Bigtime
Apr 14, 2009, 1:11 PM
I'm all for it as long as they keep the Saddledome.

Keep the Dome and get rid of the Corral? Just throwing some ideas out there.

The land that the Dome sits on could be a pretty nice spot on Stampede Park if they did get rid of it, what with its proximity to the Elbow river and all.

AirGuitarChampion
Apr 14, 2009, 4:24 PM
Keep the Dome and get rid of the Corral? Just throwing some ideas out there.

The land that the Dome sits on could be a pretty nice spot on Stampede Park if they did get rid of it, what with its proximity to the Elbow river and all.

How about something like this (first post with actual content from me yay!).

Red is new arena
Blue is larger +15 walkway
Dark green is hotel
Light green is extra exhibit space

Cons: Lose the Corral
Pros: Everything else (?)

Source file is from Calgary Stampede link in Joborule's post. MS paint awesomeness is all mine.

I've re-arranged the grounds a bit regarding the ampitheatre and extended 17th ave all the way to the new Ramsay Exchange site, maybe that could make a nice quiet riverwalk or something back there, not to mention maybe a streetcar that could run all the way from 14th ave SW to Ramsay Exchange through the park maybe. Also got rid of the traffic circle, I think an intersection with a traffic controlling person in the middle would be more effective in high traffic times after games, etc.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hd1uup.jpg

Beltliner
Apr 14, 2009, 4:54 PM
^^^ My money's still on the Big Four site, because of the opportunity to maximise connectivity to the 201 and to future through routes for pedestrians and transit through Stampede Park at Macleod and 17 Avenue.

That being said, putting Victoria Park Station underground as part of building the new barn just has to be part of the package. With the help of an abacus, the back of an envelope, and a sliderule I found in a packet of Weetabix, I found that you'd have to allow about 150 metres from the Elbow River bridgehead to bring the 201 tracks 10 metres below grade, and another 170 metres for a five-car metro platform. The total length of 320 metres conveniently puts the new Victoria Park Station north headhouse at the intersection of Macleod and 17 Avenue, and the south headhouse into the new barn and across from the Elbow River Inn Casino. Tack on another 150 metres to tie back into the 201 portal downtown, and you're looking at {(300 m x $255-mil/1000 m metro construction) + ($92-mil/metro station) = } $165-mil or thereabouts that Super Dave and City Council can offer as the municipal contribution to the overall construction enterprise.

If the Stampede Board and the Flames syndicate fall short after that contribution? Well, hey--there are bound to be enough suckers fans out there willing to pony up a hundred bucks an engraved brick to make up the difference, oi wot? :D

Jay in Cowtown
Apr 14, 2009, 8:40 PM
GAWD I hope this happens...I'm soooo over the Saddledome;) Maybe they'll build a stadium with decent seats, that can host large concerts & events without roof issues, and build in an area of DT that needs revitalization (i.e East Village)

I want the Sprint Center tore down in KC and moved here... that place is outstanding!

Jay in Cowtown
Apr 14, 2009, 8:46 PM
Keep the Dome and get rid of the Corral? Just throwing some ideas out there.



Could the Saddledome become the new Corral... or would it be too costly to maintain for literally no events?

Almost every event would be lured into the new arena to pay it off, including the Hitmen, Roughnecks, Monster Trucks, etc.

Innersoul1
Apr 14, 2009, 8:55 PM
The articles that the Herald has been posting are certainly interesting! They seem to have more information than the last time with some good sources from the Flames and the ownership. So these are some interesting tid bits:

There are two locations under consideration:
Stampede Ground
Somewhere Downtown

On the Stampede Grounds they are considering two sites:
Big Four Site
South of 12th Ave and the corner of MacLeod

They like the latter due to access and transportation. I am assuming that if they go with the 12th Ave Site then the LRT would have underground access to the arena.

As for Downtown, I have no idea where they would go. One thing for sure, it will need to be on the LRT somewhere. Which gives us the GSL or Greyhound site or somewhere in the East Village.

Ken King also indicated that the New Arena would have a retail element, hotel and condos. Maybe not all but certainly they are looking at the feasibility. There is the thought that the new arena should be stand alone and have all the facilities that fans would want without needed to rely on outside areas.

Innersoul1
Apr 14, 2009, 8:57 PM
How about something like this (first post with actual content from me yay!).

Red is new arena
Blue is larger +15 walkway
Dark green is hotel
Light green is extra exhibit space

Cons: Lose the Corral
Pros: Everything else (?)

Source file is from Calgary Stampede link in Joborule's post. MS paint awesomeness is all mine.

I've re-arranged the grounds a bit regarding the ampitheatre and extended 17th ave all the way to the new Ramsay Exchange site, maybe that could make a nice quiet riverwalk or something back there, not to mention maybe a streetcar that could run all the way from 14th ave SW to Ramsay Exchange through the park maybe. Also got rid of the traffic circle, I think an intersection with a traffic controlling person in the middle would be more effective in high traffic times after games, etc.

http://i40.tinypic.com/2hd1uup.jpg

Great "Content" post :tup:

Given the vision that the Flames have for a new site, I don't think that the Corral site has a large enough scale by any means. Your diagram cuts into a significant portion of the (BMO) Roundup Centre.

Plus I think that access is becoming a bigger focus. That particular location sitll means the Plus 15 walk from Victoria Park station.

mersar
Apr 14, 2009, 9:50 PM
Plus I think that access is becoming a bigger focus. That particular location sitll means the Plus 15 walk from Victoria Park station.

Yep, I personally can't see them going with any option that doesn't connect directly onto the LRT (for that reason I can't see any possibility of anything near the GSL site, or really even the east village)

AirGuitarChampion
Apr 14, 2009, 10:56 PM
Great "Content" post :tup:

Given the vision that the Flames have for a new site, I don't think that the Corral site has a large enough scale by any means. Your diagram cuts into a significant portion of the (BMO) Roundup Centre.

Plus I think that access is becoming a bigger focus. That particular location sitll means the Plus 15 walk from Victoria Park station.

I tried to get the new building to start at basically the SE wall of the Roundup Centre. So when you walk through the current +15 to the Dome, where the escilators are now to the Corral and Archie Boyce, that's where the new building starts, butted up to and paralleling Roundup. It does indeed overlap Olympic Way in the one corner, perhaps like BC place does to the road running underneath it, but somehow better.

The reason I chose the Corral site is really to keep as big of a continuous open space as possible on the grounds. This seems to be useful not only when the show itself is under way, but also things like the oil show where there is large equipment and tents to be set up, as well as opening perhaps large venue outdoor music festivals with how I've got the ampitheatre (largely aimed at the hill).

The LRT +15 thing is a problem. Actually didn't consider it when drawing. The only way to get rid of that problem in the context of my possible solution is to bury the line like Beltliner's idea. Huge wide underground station with sloping ped access up to a walkway on the building's side of the road. Which the more one thinks about it, could be done even with minimal disruption to train service:

Dig a cut and cover trench right next to the existing ROW, from the portal to downtown, right next to the Roundup Centre expansion, under where current C track is, then build a WIDE underground station where basically the stampede ticket booths are. Re-align back and pop up roughly beind the south end of the Big Four and you're good to go. Take service down while you tie in the tracks at each end and get rid of vic park station. It's a fantastic idea and really has to be part of the package you're right.

Big Sky
Apr 15, 2009, 6:37 PM
I like the Big four as the location for the new arena. I could see Victoria Station and Erlton station disappearing into one great station that is built into the arena structure. Have the station butt up against the concourse, so that you get off the train and walk right into the building :)

Me&You
Apr 15, 2009, 8:14 PM
I like the Big four as the location for the new arena. I could see Victoria Station and Erlton station disappearing into one great station that is built into the arena structure. Have the station butt up against the concourse, so that you get off the train and walk right into the building :)

That would be a nice thought, but realistically they will need a larger area to handle the exodus from games and concerts.

If the new dome were to be placed at the Big 4 site, I would like both stations to remain. The Big 4 site is closer to the middle between the stations and could help disperse big crowds between the two stations. Both stations could have relatively direct connections to either (N/S) end of the arena.

Additionally, with more residents (and eventual development) coming to the Beltline area around the Victoria Park station and the Anthem project and Ramsay Exchange around the Erlton station, both stations will see sufficient use to justify their individual existence.

Beltliner
Apr 15, 2009, 8:23 PM
^^^ Don't forget that the SPUI on the drawing board for Macleod x 25 Avenue S (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/trans_planning/studies/25_ave_connector/25ave_connector_recommended_plan.pdf) would put the avenue over the 201 tracks by Erlton Station, which kinda sorta suggests that the station will stay in play.

Me&You
Apr 15, 2009, 9:35 PM
^^^ Don't forget that the SPUI on the drawing board for Macleod x 25 Avenue S (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/trans_planning/studies/25_ave_connector/25ave_connector_recommended_plan.pdf) would put the avenue over the 201 tracks by Erlton Station, which kinda sorta suggests that the station will stay in play.

Interesting... though as I've said, I would prefer to just have the tracks tunneled/below grade from the cemetery all the way to where it ducks under 12th... stupid Elbow river in the way!

milehigh69
Apr 15, 2009, 9:50 PM
I just happened to stumble across this thread and I thought that I would share with you what I heard out of the mouth of Ken King. I was at a Flames "Top Shelf Experience" back on Feb 9th. Ken King came into the room to talk to us and answer our questions. One of the questions asked was, "what is going on with the new arena?". He replied that they have many drawings and renderings that they are going over, and that the new arena will be going two blocks North of the current Saddledome. He also said that the building will be ready for 2014, when their current lease expires, and they hope to go public this fall with designs.

I hope that he is correct.

mersar
Apr 15, 2009, 10:02 PM
I just happened to stumble across this thread and I thought that I would share with you what I heard out of the mouth of Ken King. I was at a Flames "Top Shelf Experience" back on Feb 9th. Ken King came into the room to talk to us and answer our questions. One of the questions asked was, "what is going on with the new arena?". He replied that they have many drawings and renderings that they are going over, and that the new arena will be going two blocks North of the current Saddledome. He also said that the building will be ready for 2014, when their current lease expires, and they hope to go public this fall with designs.

I hope that he is correct.

Interesting. 2 blocks north would be on the empty parking lots along 12th on the east side of the casino... which would be even more detached from transit then it is now.

Bigtime
Apr 15, 2009, 10:13 PM
Interesting. 2 blocks north would be on the empty parking lots along 12th on the east side of the casino... which would be even more detached from transit then it is now.

<cough> Southeast LRT <cough> ;)

Beltliner
Apr 15, 2009, 10:18 PM
^^^ Perfect site, then--equally inconvenient to both lines.... :sly:

Stang
Apr 15, 2009, 10:24 PM
Interesting. 2 blocks north would be on the empty parking lots along 12th on the east side of the casino... which would be even more detached from transit then it is now.

Sounds like a prefect place for a tram/people mover/something similar from Stampede station. Could get used for hockey games, during stampede, etc.

That being said, nothing would beat an LRT station integrated right into the stadium (beside, under, etc.).

Me&You
Apr 15, 2009, 10:31 PM
Sounds like a prefect place for a tram/people mover/something similar from Stampede station. Could get used for hockey games, during stampede, etc.

That being said, nothing would beat an LRT station integrated right into the stadium (beside, under, etc.).

Plus, if the new Dome was to be placed where the Big 4 is currently, it would be located basically at the base of the Red Mile... not something to make or break a decision on, but a cool consideration

Chinook Arch
Apr 16, 2009, 6:07 PM
I think that's a decent location, with exception of transit. I like the Big 4 location because it can integrate into the LRT nicely. That location two blocks north of the Saddledome would be kitty corner to Arriva no?

I just happened to stumble across this thread and I thought that I would share with you what I heard out of the mouth of Ken King. I was at a Flames "Top Shelf Experience" back on Feb 9th. Ken King came into the room to talk to us and answer our questions. One of the questions asked was, "what is going on with the new arena?". He replied that they have many drawings and renderings that they are going over, and that the new arena will be going two blocks North of the current Saddledome. He also said that the building will be ready for 2014, when their current lease expires, and they hope to go public this fall with designs.

I hope that he is correct.

Bigtime
Apr 16, 2009, 6:22 PM
I think that's a decent location, with exception of transit. I like the Big 4 location because it can integrate into the LRT nicely. That location two blocks north of the Saddledome would be kitty corner to Arriva no?

You are correct, however I am a little concerned that if they build there it would mean the end of this awesome tree in the middle of the parking lot:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/3380991190_aeb1d840fe.jpg?v=0
Link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/staredownstudios/3380991190/)

lubicon
Apr 16, 2009, 7:35 PM
I think that's a decent location, with exception of transit. I like the Big 4 location because it can integrate into the LRT nicely. That location two blocks north of the Saddledome would be kitty corner to Arriva no?

Agreed. Transit (LRT) access is the downside but other than that it seems pretty good. I wonder how much of a factor the Calgary Stampede is going to be in this whole thing. By that I mean whether or not the new building would or would not be located inside or outside the Stampede grounds, and by extension who would control the arena.

freeweed
Apr 16, 2009, 8:19 PM
If that tree goes, I'm calling for a revolution. It's the single most awesome thing in Calgary's core. I was sooooo pleased to see it survive the parking lots being leveled and then poured.

Wooster
Apr 16, 2009, 11:32 PM
I could see it going kitty corner Arriva - they would probably integrate retail as part of the edge of the building to act as part of their main street.

Doug_Cgy
Apr 23, 2009, 9:24 PM
Global ran a story yesterday about the Saddledome not having the capability to host many large concerts and events due to the roof slope. They mentioned about 5 years for the new arena as well!! I can't wait!:tup:

Beltliner
Apr 24, 2009, 7:13 PM
Global ran a story yesterday about the Saddledome not having the capability to host many large concerts and events due to the roof slope. They mentioned about 5 years for the new arena as well!! I can't wait!:tup:

Wha', Global waited a whole two weeks (http://www.canada.com/Clock+ticking+antiquated+Alberta+rinks/1489490/story.html) to resuscitate the story in The Fishwrap? I know CrapWest as a going concern is reactionary and broke, but I didn't think they were that disorganised to boot. :D

And for the record, folks, my money's still on the Big Four site.

milehigh69
Apr 24, 2009, 7:25 PM
Big 4 sight is apparently a no-go, as according to Ken King, the Stampede has signed-up the Oil Show for the next "100 years". They need the exhibition space. That is why it may be going north of the Saddledome instead.

Beltliner
Apr 24, 2009, 7:40 PM
^^^ Would ha' thought the expanded Roundup BMO Centre could handle the trade show and exhibition space, tovarishch. Besides, if Ken King and Kool and the Gang are to have a snowball's chance in a cyclotron of selling a new barn to the Stampede Board and City Council, mass transit access is going to be too much of a sticking point to make the north parking lot location viable.

milehigh69
Apr 24, 2009, 7:59 PM
OK, but where do you put all of the exhibition space, while the Saddledome is still standing and the former Big 4 is a big construction zone. I attend that show every 2 years and they use every inch of space on the grounds.

mersar
Apr 24, 2009, 8:01 PM
Would the amount of indoor space lost from the Big 4 be more then what will be gained by the opening of the new phase of the roundup this year?

And even then, would the Saddledome actually come down is another big question. It is not owned by either the Flames or the Stampede afterall.

lubicon
Apr 24, 2009, 8:43 PM
I'm guessing a new arena would take up a lot of the outdoor parking space as well. That space is needed not only for the outdoor exhibits during the oil show, but also for the Stampede midway.

I like the Big Four site, but am also having trouble with the logistics of building there.

Bigtime
Apr 24, 2009, 9:04 PM
Besides, if Ken King and Kool and the Gang are to have a snowball's chance in a cyclotron of selling a new barn to the Stampede Board and City Council, mass transit access is going to be too much of a sticking point to make the north parking lot location viable.

No problem there, just get the SELRT going ASAP and have the station put in at 4th street SE. If the new arena is at the corner of 12th avenue & 4th it would probably be closer than the Vic Park station is from the Dome right now.

Beltliner
Apr 24, 2009, 9:16 PM
^^^ Given that ASAP on the 203 is 2017, I'm not sure how much traction that pitch would have for a 2014 grand opening. That location would also need a lot of work to integrate with the streetscape.

Not gonna rule out the possibility, but the Big Four location is easier for me to foresee.

SubwayRev
May 12, 2009, 2:32 PM
I'd like to see a new arena on the Big Four site, with the C-Train put underground, and a station directly inside said new arena. Get rid of both the Victoria Park and Erlton stations, using only one station at 17th Avenue. The C-Train could also then go under 25th Ave. instead of that mess we currently have.

Yes, this would be quite the project, but it would be worth it going forward, in my opinion.

SubwayRev
May 29, 2009, 4:25 PM
I was at a Q&A session with Ken King this morning, and regarding a new arena, he said that their preferred site was where the Big 4 is, but for various reasons that is no longer viable. They are working on a land swap deal with the City for the spot two blocks north of the Saddledome. The city has said they would do the land swap, but would be unable to contirbute any funds to the project.

He also mentioned that they have been offered land at COP, Balzac, and "various other places around the fringes of the city," but that the Flames are "committed to staying downtown and any new building would not be outside the core."

freeweed
May 29, 2009, 6:54 PM
Balzac. *shakes head*. Go ask someone from Ottawa how well that worked out.

Good to see King is totally for the downtown location. It's the only logical choice - and I say this as someone who'd have a far easier time driving out to Balzac than I do downtown.

tdurden5573
May 29, 2009, 8:18 PM
Thats great news, in my opinion it should be downtown to represent the heart of the city. Maybe its just me, or maybe its that im living down south, but the Flames and Hockey are a big part of my life/heritage, not something to put out in the burbs with the Home Depots, Costs Cos and MegaMalls...Thanks King!

BFHeadstone
May 30, 2009, 1:05 AM
So it will most likely be in Vic park then....


...hmmm... the Hookerdome?
The Needledome... ;)