[Jets4Life]

Now that the recession has hit Alberta, and activity is slowing down in the Oilfield (at least in Southern ALberta), which region in Canada has the best economy. I know Saskatchewan is still hopping with activity, especially around Estevan. I'm sure Northeast BC ( Dawson Creek, etc) are still going strong. What do you think and why?

[Greco Roman]

Two comments:

1. Manitoba will weather the economic storm better than most provinces due to their diverse economy.

2. This thread is going to turn into a Vs., and go down the shitter really fast.

[Rico Rommheim]

Montreal!!!! Yeahahahah!1!


No but seriously I don't know, and I don't care.

[WhipperSnapper]

I'm not moving so don't really care

[Nicko999]

the North...

[Denscity]

Vancouver

[DizzyEdge]

What's the measurement that determines 'best economy' ?

[1ajs]

the socialist hot beds will weather it farely well due to the flat line economies they have...

[jeremy_haak]

I agree, what's the measure of best economy? A high GDP doesn't necessarily reflect a good economy, especially if it's highly concentrated in a single sector.

[Calgarian]

This won't be pretty.

[1ajs]

we must remember this was a over inflated global boom

[newflyer]

the socialist hot beds will weather it farely well due to the flat line economies they have...

The Manitoba eonomy is still running at a good clip (projected to be among the fastest growing economy in 2009) ...and its real estate market is holding up very well.

[vid]

Northwestern Ontario, no doubt. In the coming months, pine needles will overtake oil as the main source of energy and we will be booming with needle refineries, just you wait and see!

[feepa]

I'm going to guess that the poster of this thread really doesn't know much about the oilfield in Alberta. (oilfields in southern Alberta?? there may be a few pumps, but nothing compared to the north) There may be a slow down out here, but it's no where near recession levels, and I doubt we hit that point. Price of oil should recover above $60/bbl this summer, if not even higher.

[SJTOKO]

Saint John: Canada’s new energy hub
The US Northeast will obtain oil, gas, and nuclear energy from projects costing $16 billion. But locals fear new initiatives will lead to pollution and negative health effects.

By Colin Woodard | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor/ September 12, 2008 edition

Saint John, New Brunswick

Surrounded by forests and the Atlantic, Mispec Beach, on the outskirts of Saint John, seems distant from the troubles of modern life. Or at least it used to.

Some $16 billion in energy projects are proposed or underway in Greater Saint John, the largest city in this sparsely populated province of 750,000, which already produces far more electricity and liquid fuels than it consumes. The new energy projects are being built to supply the Northeast of the United States.

Beachgoers now look out on an industrial pier, construction cranes, and the massive tanks of the Canaport liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal. A few miles up the road, Canaport’s owners plan to build a new oil refinery, even though Saint John is already home to Canada’s largest. Twenty miles to the east, engineers are busy refurbishing the Point Lepreau nuclear power plant, where two new reactors have been proposed.

“New Englanders may not be able to site some of these energy needs, but we can,” says New Brunswick’s minister of energy, Jack Keir. “Our goal is to go from being a ‘have-not’ to a ‘have’ province, so we can contribute to the [Canadian] federation rather than take from it. The energy sector can take us there.”

Saint John, a blue-collar city, is willing to do what few communities in the Northeast would: build the ugly, dirty, and sometimes dangerous infrastructure that keeps the lights on across the Northeast. The local political and industrial class supports the projects, hoping to turn this principal port into an energy hub.

“It’s an ice-free deepwater harbor that’s within a day’s sail of many key energy entry points in the US,” says Tim Curry, president of the Atlantica Center for Energy, a regional industry association. “People around here make the connection between economic investments and jobs and growth.”

The contrast to the US Northeast is striking. LNG terminals proposed for Fall River, Mass.; and Harpswell, Perry, and Robbinston in Maine have been the subject of acrimonious debate. Maine – which demolished its only nuclear power plant after a series of maintenance problems – is focused on how to get rid of radioactive waste, not building reactors. A new oil refinery has not been built in the US since 1976.

“If you tried to start a brand-new refinery in the US, that’s going to be a long haul,” says Michelle Foss, chief energy economist at the University of Texas, Austin, who says Canada’s permitting process is more centralized and thus straightforward.

Saint John already provides a considerable amount of New England’s energy. Its oil refinery reportedly provides 60 percent of Boston’s vehicular gasoline supply. Point Lepreau’s 635-megawatt reactor was built largely to serve New England, as was the 978-megawatt Coleson Cove oil-fired plant, built here to avoid provisions of the US Clean Air Act.

“New Brunswick is an area that’s seen as being easy to get approval for these projects,” says Rob Moir, an economist at the University of New Brunswick.

Projects also proceed because the companies behind them are local. Saint John’s powerful Irving family owns the oil refinery and part of the $750 million LNG terminal. Meanwhile, NB Power, a public utility is spending $1.4 billion, including replacement fuel and energy, to refurbish its 25-year-old nuclear plant and will run a second 1,085-megawatt reactor once it has been built at a cost of $4 billion. [Editor’s note:The original version misstated the cost to NB Power of refurbishing its nuclear plant.]
Citizens trust NB Power for having “one of the best run nuclear plants in the world,” says Mr. Keir, while the Irving Oil Company has invested heavily in pollution abatement. “Governments grant permits, but it’s communities that grant permission,” he adds.

But not everyone is feeling permissive. “We’re very concerned that these additional facilities are going to have negative health impacts,” says Gordon Dalzell of the Saint John Citizens’ Coalition for Clean Air. “We’re going to pay the price so that people in the northeastern US can enjoy the energy.”

David Coon, policy director of the Conservation Council of New Brunswick in Fredericton, is opposed to a new refinery. “It will obliterate all our progress in meeting greenhouse-gas targets on a national level,” he says.

Saint John mayor Ivan Court insists that the projects be staged so as to avoid boom-and-bust employment cycles. “The refinery will need 10,000 people to construct, but only 1,000 on completion,” he says. “It’s vital that the projects are timed so that one follows after another, allowing the people who build them to stay in our community over the long haul.”

With Canaport and an associated gas pipeline nearing completion, Saint John is already undergoing a renaissance. “Saint John has become a community that’s beginning to feel the wind in its sails,” says Mr. Curry.”


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1020/1427582499_09832330ca.jpg?v=0

[Jets4Life]

I'm going to guess that the poster of this thread really doesn't know much about the oilfield in Alberta. (oilfields in southern Alberta?? there may be a few pumps, but nothing compared to the north) There may be a slow down out here, but it's no where near recession levels, and I doubt we hit that point. Price of oil should recover above $60/bbl this summer, if not even higher.


can you give me an idea of where they are located. I'm in Brooks. Don't mention the tarsands.

[Ayreonaut]

I'm in Brooks.

I'm sorry. :pet:

:D

[CMD UW]

can you give me an idea of where they are located. I'm in Brooks. Don't mention the tarsands.
A large proportion of gas wells are located west of Edmonton and northwest Alberta (Grande Prairie, Peace Country).

There are also a number of them in southern Alberta...as there has for yeeears.

[Doug]

Saskatchewan and deservedly so.

[Prairie Guy]

Saskatchewan and deservedly so.

Why is Saskatchewan more deserving than anyone else?

[0773|=\]

Maybe someone should define 'best' to avoid all the confusion/flame-wars. If by 'best' you mean least volatile or stable, then Manitoba is and arguably has always been tough to beat. It sounds to me like that isn't the kind of 'best' we're talking about, though...

[1ajs]

alberta would be the best then even with the cooling the sky is not falling just slow downs and cost controll mesures going on

[ssiguy]

Contrary to what some may think, I think Ontario will recover nicely. It's high education levels, diversified economy, and high immigration levels secures it's long-term stature.
That said, if I had to say which economy and provincial fortune will do the best over the next decade and beyond, it would be, without a doubt, Manitoba. Manitoba and the Ol'Peg are back!

[1ajs]

we need to get our gov to put pressure on the us gov to dump 100-200 billion of that stimulus package into nassa so as to get to mars!!!

[vid]

That won't stimulate the economy very much...

[Beatrix]

I think Ontario will prosper once again, but it's clear the manufacturing sector will continue to shrink no matter what.

All I can say is thank god our financial institutions in Toronto have held up as well as they have during this whole "crisis." Ontario (and Canada for that matter) would have been on serious life-support right now if they hadn't.

[401_King]

"If the backroom bureaucrats and bank CEOs have their way, Toronto will profit from the collapse of Wall Street and become a global financial centre. The plan to make everyone rich, rich, rich"

http://www.torontolife.com/features/good-news-about-bad-times/?pageno=1

[WhipperSnapper]

It's a huge risk but also a great opportunity for the Canadian banks to move up a peg or two. However, I'm not sure Toronto is guarranteed to benefit should it happen. There's a strong reason why the Canadian banks have shed themselves of their Canadian indentities and why CIBC World Markets are located in Manhattan.

[MonctonRad]

In the last reporting period, StatsCan stated that the only province in Canada where the unemployment rate actually went down was NB.

The southern part of the province is doing very well, thank you very much.

Here in Moncton, retail sales were actually better over the Christmas period than average. There is already nearly $250M of new construction committed for the CMA in 2009. Moncton is the fastest growing city in Canada east of the GTA.

Saint John has several megaprojects on the go, literally worth tens of billions of dollars. These include an LNG port, a second large oil refinery and one, (possibly two) additional nuclear power plants. New home construction in Saint John was up over 20% from the previous year and the retail sector is taking off.

Sussex (located halfway between Saint John and Moncton) is the beneficiary of a second potash mine worth about a billion dollars. Natural gas is being produced in Sussex and they struck oil there this year.

Fredericton is doing OK too (it is after all the capitol).

Now, if only we could do something about the northern half of the province....

[shreddog]

In the last reporting period, StatsCan stated that the only province in Canada where the unemployment rate actually went down was NB.
Interestingly enough, the reason the unemployment rate went down had nothing to do with an increase in the number of people working. In fact there were 800 less people employed in December than in November (366.6K vs 367.4K). The reason the unemployment rate went down was that the total size of the labour force in the province declined even more than the loss in jobs (it decreased by 1400 people between Nov and Dec).

Now I'm not bringing this to your attention to rain on NB's parade, nor disput your claim, but rather to point out that putting emphasis on the unemployment rate to gauge economic strength is dangerous since it really is a useless number out of context.

[vid]

Exactly. Thunder Bay has the lowest unemployment in Ontario, but that's only because the people who don't have jobs either left or gave up.

We had a huge decline in EI recipients a couple months ago not because they found jobs, but because their EI ran out before they could find jobs.

The better numbers to compare would be total workforce and participation rates. Participation rate is the percentage of working age people who have jobs combined with those who are looking for them.

Unemployment rates are a trick number devised to make things look better. The actual percent of working age Canadians who aren't working is over 30%.

[shreddog]

Exactly. Thunder Bay has the lowest unemployment in Ontario, but that's only because the people who don't have jobs either left or gave up.

We had a huge decline in EI recipients a couple months ago not because they found jobs, but because their EI ran out before they could find jobs.

The better numbers to compare would be total workforce and participation rates. Participation rate is the percentage of working age people who have jobs combined with those who are looking for them.

BINGO! And in context with the participation rate is the possible best indicator of economic strength (from a jobs perspective) is the actual employment rate which is percentage of the working age population with jobs. So for those of you who don't look at that part of SC's reports, here are the numbers presented as "participation rate/employment rate":

NF - 59.0/50.9
NS - 64.1/58.9
NB - 64.7/59.2
QC - 65.5/60.7
ON - 67.9/63.0
MB - 69.6/66.6
SK - 70.2/67.2
AB - 74.6/71.5
BC - 66.2/62.7

Interesting to note that the actual employment rate in Alberta is higher than the participation rate in all the other provinces. Not sure what that really means other than there are still lots of jobs there. It's also scary to see that only half of the working age population in NFLD actually have jobs (and yes, this means full-time and part-time work). Ouch!

[Me&You]

Interesting to note that the actual employment rate in Alberta is higher than the participation rate in all the other provinces. Not sure what that really means other than there are still lots of jobs there. It's also scary to see that only half of the working age population in NFLD actually have jobs (and yes, this means full-time and part-time work). Ouch!

Does that mean the other half gave up?

[vid]

Their unemployment rate is 13%, which means that 13% of the people in Newfoundland who can work are looking for a job. The rest might have a disability, be stay-at-home parents, early retirement, students, or just lazy. Basically it means that half of the people in Newfoundland that could have jobs, don't.

[Me&You]

Their unemployment rate is 13%, which means that 13% of the people in Newfoundland who can work are looking for a job. The rest might have a disability, be stay-at-home parents, early retirement, students, or just lazy. Basically it means that half of the people in Newfoundland that could have jobs, don't.

Thanks for clarifying.

[JDRCRASH]

I gotta feeling this thread is gonna go apeshit and die really soon here.:jester: Anyway, I would consider Toronto the most prosperous.

[1ajs]

face it canada is to big lol

[Ice Water]

Someone already made a thread like a month ago with a list of Canadians cities and their economic index.

1. Regina
2. Toronto
3. Saskatoon
4. Vancouver
5. Calgary

Those are the top 5 cities with the best economy. I don't know about "region" though. Like the above guy said, Canada is too big lol

[J-MAN]

.

[Prairie Guy]

:deadthread: :P

Just out of curiosity, what is your age?

[caltrane74]

Someone already made a thread like a month ago with a list of Canadians cities and their economic index.

1. Regina
2. Toronto
3. Saskatoon
4. Vancouver
5. Calgary

Those are the top 5 cities with the best economy. I don't know about "region" though. Like the above guy said, Canada is too big lol

Yes, I saw this list before in the other thread. - Sask, obviously has some natural advantages, which will keep it's economy front and center for the next couple of years, at least until the world economy recovers... at which point,...... which city (or region) becomes the frontrunner is anybody's guess.

[240glt]

http://research.cibcwm.com/economic_public/download/metro_monitor.pdf

[J-MAN]

Just out of curiosity, what is your age?

Out of curiosity, why are you such an http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/fdereigs.jpeg? :shrug:

[Prairie Guy]

out of curiosity, why are you such an http://www.godlikeproductions.com/sm/custom/fdereigs.jpeg

I would just like to know your age so that in the future, I can fully understand the context of your responses and how you think.

[J-MAN]

I would just like to know your age so that in the future, I can fully understand the context of your responses and how you think.

(a) I'm obviously not going to tell you my age.
(b) why would that help you better understand the context of my responses?
(c) for the same reason why don't you tell me your age?

[Ayreonaut]

Why don't we just utilize the ability to send PMs to other forumers?

[someone123]

Most people from Newfoundland have actually left the province to look for work. They are the ones who provide provinces like Alberta with a higher than normal participation rate. I doubt that Newfoundlanders are any less likely as a whole to work than other Canadians, and in fact they have proven more willing than those of any other province to move long distances to look for jobs. The same goes for the Maritimes, although some parts have historically been pretty much fine while others have declined a lot (remove Northern NB and Cape Breton from the picture and employment rates are comparable to other provinces, although some of those also have their stagnating areas now). Another factor to point out is simply that the Atlantic region has remained more rural - the individual cities and rural regions are comparable to others of similar size in other parts of Canada, but the overall urban/rural ratio has trailed behind the rest of the country. Emigration from Atlantic Canada fueled urbanization in other areas - Boston, Montreal, Toronto, and now Calgary.

Those remaining in the declining regions either are part of the small percentage who still have good jobs, have the money to support themselves without working (retired early etc.), or just can't or don't want to work. These towns didn't produce an unusually high number of these people, they just disproportionately stayed behind while others left. It's obviously pretty misleading and unfair to judge everybody from an area based on a minority not representative of the whole, but that's often what happens.

[1ajs]

I would just like to know your age so that in the future, I can fully understand the context of your responses and how you think.
hes not the only one that thinks that prarie guy...

[jeremy_haak]

Most people from Newfoundland have actually left the province to look for work. They are the ones who provide provinces like Alberta with a higher than normal participation rate. I doubt that Newfoundlanders are any less likely as a whole to work than other Canadians, and in fact they have proven more willing than those of any other province to move long distances to look for jobs. The same goes for the Maritimes, although some parts have historically been pretty much fine while others have declined a lot (remove Northern NB and Cape Breton from the picture and employment rates are comparable to other provinces, although some of those also have their stagnating areas now). Another factor to point out is simply that the Atlantic region has remained more rural - the individual cities and rural regions are comparable to others of similar size in other parts of Canada, but the overall urban/rural ratio has trailed behind the rest of the country. Emigration from Atlantic Canada fueled urbanization in other areas - Boston, Montreal, Toronto, and now Calgary.

Those remaining in the declining regions either are part of the small percentage who still have good jobs, have the money to support themselves without working (retired early etc.), or just can't or don't want to work. These towns didn't produce an unusually high number of these people, they just disproportionately stayed behind while others left. It's obviously pretty misleading and unfair to judge everybody from an area based on a minority not representative of the whole, but that's often what happens.

My understanding is that a lot of people are now moving back east now as well. It's too bad that those provinces have to provide the social support for these newly unemployed people without benefiting from collecting taxes from them while they were employed.

[joelpiecowye]

Regina Second Only to Saskatoon in Economic Growth
Conference Board, Mayor Predict Growth to Continue

Story Tools
ShareThisReported By Geoff Smith
Posted January 19, 2009 - 9:45pm
"Red-hot" is how the Conference Board of Canada describes Regina's economic performance in 2008.

Regina recorded 4.9 percent growth in its gross domestic product. That's the second biggest increase last year of any metro area in the country. Saskatoon had the biggest, at 5.4 percent.

This year the forecast is tempered by what's happening to the global economy, but with major projects like the refinery expansion and the Global Transportation Hub a rate of 3.2 percent is still predicted for Regina, and 3.3 percent for Saskatoon.

Mayor Pat Fiacco says Regina remains in good shape, with one major challenge being the labour shortage.

"We're going to have to focus on a couple of fronts, making sure that we have the talent here, people to fill those jobs," Fiacco said Monday, "but also we have to make sure they have roofs over their heads as well.

"Our focus, of course, to make sure that there's enough housing being built."

Fiacco hopes the province will step up to help.

"We've made it very clear to our provincial government that we're looking forward to them continuing to take steps to either create an incentive of some sort, but certainly make an investment in building new apartments attractive to those developers."

Net migration to greater Regina was 3,100, swelling the population to 205,000.
Call it a hat trick for Saskatoon. For the third year in a row, the city is expected to lead the nation in GDP growth, a new report says.

The Conference Board of Canada predicted Monday in its metropolitan outlook that Saskatoon will see a 3.3 per cent growth in its GDP in 2009. The city ended 2008 with an estimated GDP growth of 5.4 per cent, the highest rate in the country.

"I think it's a story that keeps on repeating itself," said Mario Lefebvre, director of the centre of municipal studies for the conference board. "It's almost sounding like same old, same old now where this economy has managed to find an incredible amount of dynamism over the years."

Apart from demand for agricultural and mining exports and positive consumer spending, Lefebvre said the reason 2008 was strong -- and 2009 will be -- is because of Saskatoon's growing population. The Conference Board of Canada expects the Saskatoon census metropolitan area's (CMA) population to rise to 252,000 by the end of the year, up from 248,000 in 2008 and 241,000 in 2007.

"I think this has been a very important result and one to add to the long series of nice results (Saskatoon) has been having, and ultimately it's taking (Saskatoon) right to the top. It seems almost never-ending," he said.

The conference board predicts the CMA will have a population of 264,000 by 2013.

Although the future looks rosy for the city, Lefebvre warns there will be challenges along the way. Hand-in-hand with a growing population comes managing and providing for an influx of people. The economic downturn will also affect exporters. The Conference Board of Canada warns in its report if the global economic downturn is longer and deeper than expected, regional exporters will suffer.

"This is still a very tough economic period -- one that most economists have not seen in a while, one that we were hoping we would never see again," he said.

"Saskatoon is still doing well and managing its own, but it's not as if it's completely immune from what's going on in the outside world."

However, the city is poised to continue to withstand the bulk of the downturn, said Alan Migneault, CEO of the Saskatoon Regional Economic Development Authority (SREDA). Although a long-term economic slowdown may eventually hurt exporters, Migneault says for now, Saskatoon's economy will grow because of them.

"When you think about the region of Saskatoon and what the companies in the region provide to the world, we are providing a lot of food and fuel and this is what people will need in the long run. And we expect that the Saskatoon region will continue to be growing as a result of that," he said.

The Conference Board of Canada report says Saskatoon's GDP rate will moderate to an average of 2.7 per cent for the years 2010 to 2013.

It expects the provincial economy to grow 3.6 per cent this year on demand for natural resources and agricultural commodities.

ckyle@sp.canwest.com

- - -

FORECAST GDP GROWTH FOR 2009

Saskatoon: 3.3 %

Regina: 3.2 %

Winnipeg: 2.5 %

Calgary: 2.4 %

Edmonton: 2.4 %

Victoria: 1.8 %

Quebec City: 1.7 %

Abbotsford: 1.7 %

Halifax: 1.7 %


at the moment saskatoon seems to have the best economy but most of the other western cities having almost or just as good as a economy, in a couple years from now i am sure things will change but at the moment saskatoon has the strongest economy supported by potash, uranium, oil, grain production and manufacturing.

[1ajs]

too soon to say what will happen realy lets watch and see

[habfanman]

The best that we can hope for is for the speedy recovery of the American economy. Any thoughts that there is such a thing as an independant Canadian economy, foreign policy etc. will be incontrovertably dashed over the next few years. Stevie Blunder's role will be reduced to that of 'sucker up to Obama'. The only future role of the Canadian Prime Minister will be to dole out plums to the regions where he needs the most support in order to be re-elected as the leader of the 51st state.
We can't rely on one country for 87% of our trade and pretend that we're an independant nation. We pump oil, provide wood, assemble cars etc. for the U.S. Too bad we hadn't thought of doing anything more over the last 60 years or so.

[Me&You]

There's no one indicator of a strong economy though, including % growth. So any article proclaiming #1 in this, highest that isn't proving a thing.

(not directed at anyone, just a general comment)

[WhipperSnapper]

at the moment saskatoon seems to have the best economy but most of the other western cities having almost or just as good as a economy

Saskatoon is forecast to have the highest precentage growth increase however, I certainly wouldn't refer that to being the best. It has a looong way to go to reach Calgary's level.

[socialisthorde]

There's no one indicator of a strong economy though, including % growth. So any article proclaiming #1 in this, highest that isn't proving a thing.

(not directed at anyone, just a general comment)

Strong and healthy are also two different things. Steroids (oil?) will make you strong, but only for as long as they take to cause other health problems. I think the original question is interesting, and worthy of discussion, but I don't think there is going to be any right or wrong answer, so we may as well argue about how many angels fit on the head of a pin (Stats Can says the answer is 42 BTW, although health experts would argue that number has been declining since the 1950's due to increasing average body mass in the angel population ;) ).

[DizzyEdge]

Could a decent measure of 'strong economy' be GDP per capita?

[vid]

I think mineral wealth should count as steroids. Unlike other economic activity it's only temporary. Once the oil and diamonds are gone that's it. Most of NWT's economic success is in mineral extraction. (Or was, that sector has kinda crapped out right now.)

[Ruckus]

Strong and healthy are also two different things. Steroids (oil?) will make you strong, but only for as long as they take to cause other health problems. I think the original question is interesting, and worthy of discussion, but I don't think there is going to be any right or wrong answer, so we may as well argue about how many angels fit on the head of a pin (Stats Can says the answer is 42 BTW, although health experts would argue that number has been declining since the 1950's due to increasing average body mass in the angel population ;) ).

I think mineral wealth should count as steroids. Unlike other economic activity it's only temporary. Once the oil and diamonds are gone that's it. Most of NWT's economic success is in mineral extraction. (Or was, that sector has kinda crapped out right now.)

I like where this is going.

Natural resources are steroids. Manufacturing/construction could be thought as either carbohydrates or some type of fat. High-tech/financial services/science is protein. Education is vitamins/essential nutrients...that just about covers it...we could also describe economic sectors as food groups:)

[DizzyEdge]

I think mineral wealth should count as steroids. Unlike other economic activity it's only temporary. Once the oil and diamonds are gone that's it. Most of NWT's economic success is in mineral extraction. (Or was, that sector has kinda crapped out right now.)

But, if those steroids will last decades, or even more than one lifetime, then I think they need to not be seen as a temporary fix, especially if the question posed is where the best economy is, as any non mineral wealth could be arguably be longer lived than any specific non-mineral field of employment.

[MolsonExport]

Could a decent measure of 'strong economy' be GDP per capita?

A crude and static measure, that does not reflect a trend. Nor does it reflect purchasing power parity (PPP).

GDP = C + I + G + (X − M), where:
C (Consumption), I (Investment), G (Government spending) and X − M (Net Exports).

GDP/Capita is simply GDP/resident population

[Nicko999]

Right now?

February jobless rate rises to 7.7%

4th straight month of employment declines, 82,600 jobs lost last month

Canada's unemployment rate rose to 7.7 per cent in February, when 82,600 jobs were lost, the fourth consecutive month of declines.

The February drop pushed the national unemployment rate up 0.5 percentage points, from 7.2 per cent in January, Statistics Canada reported Friday.

All the February employment losses were in full-time work, with 110,900 jobs disappearing, while part-time employment edged up slightly.

Since the peak last October, 295,000 jobs in the country have been lost as the economy fell into recession. In January, there were 129,000 job losses.

In February, the largest decline in employment occurred in Ontario, which lost 35,300 jobs, followed by Alberta, where 23,700 jobs vanished, and Quebec with 18,400 jobs lost.

The construction sector lost 43,200 jobs last month, accounting for over half the decline in overall employment.

Job losses were also in professional, scientific and technical services, with 31,100 jobs cut. The trade sector lost 17,700 jobs, while employment in educational services fell by 14,700.

The battered manufacturing sector actually added 24,700 jobs last month, but employment in that sector is down by more than 104,000 from February 2008.

Agriculture was the only other sector to add jobs last month:haha: , as employment rose by 16,700

Ontario's unemployement rate is now 8.7%(was 8% last month). Alberta's went up to 6.7% and Quebec's went up to 7.9%

Every province have a higher unemployement rate this month

[shreddog]

Right now?

February jobless rate rises to 7.7%

4th straight month of employment declines, 82,600 jobs lost last month



Ontario's unemployement rate is now 8.7%(was 8% last month). Alberta's went up to 6.7% and Quebec's went up to 7.9%

Every province have a higher unemployement rate this month
Alberta is 5.4%, not 6.7% link (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090313/t090313a4-eng.htm)

Better still, forget unemployment rate and look at the employment rate instead:

QC 59.9%, -1.4 from a year ago
ON 61.8%, -2.2 from a year ago
MB 66.3%, -0.2 from a year ago
SK 67.4%, +0.4 from a year ago
AB 70.6%, -1.3 from a year ago
BC 61.5%, -2.3 from a year ago

While SK did well the past 12 months (and MB) and ON and BC suffered the most, AB still has the best employment picture.

[WhipperSnapper]

Better still, forget unemployment rate and look at the employment rate instead:




Umm, Why?

[Doug_Cgy]

Umm, Why?

Ummm...Why not??

[1ajs]

cause then u can see bothe sides of the stats rather then 1 side

[Only The Lonely..]

Manitoba's economy cushions unemployment numbers

By: Julian Beltrame (Canadian Press) | Winnipeg Free Press - March 13, 2009

Unemployment in Manitoba increased last month to 4.8 per cent from 4.6 per cent -- the second lowest rate in the country; it was 4.3 per cent in December.

The Manitoba labour force grew by 2,000 and the province achieved slight growth in full-time employment but a modest decline in the part-time numbers.

There were 1,200 more people unemployed in the province in February compared to January.

Nationally, Canadian workers are taking the full brunt of the deepening recession as another 82,600 lost their jobs in February, boosting the country's unemployment rate a half-point to the highest level in more than five years.

The jobless rate stands at 7.7 per cent, almost a full two points higher than where it was a year ago.

But in contrast, 700 new jobs were created in Manitoba in February indicating that the local economy continues to shield the province from the brunt of the recession.

Only Nova Scotia has a larger increase in employment and Saskatchewan is the only province with a lower unemployment rate at 4.7 per cent.

"Regrettably no, I'm not surprised," Finance Minister Jim Flaherty told a Toronto radio station from England, where he is attending a meeting of global finance ministers.

"The overall numbers are not going to be good for some time, even though they'll be better than they would have been because of the economic stimulus.

"But the reality is, we're going to have a difficult year."

The outsized job loss, following January's massive 129,000 contraction, was more graphic evidence that the economy has fallen off a cliff and has yet to hit bottom. For the past four months, the economy has shed 295,000 jobs in total.

And in this case, the details were worse than the headline as February's carnage included the loss of 111,000 full-time workers, partly offset by a pick-up in part-time work.

As well, the jobless rate would have been higher had not the labour force increased by 23,100.

Most economists had forecast a less dramatic number in the 50,000-range for February given that the previous month's record losses were mostly confined to the factory sector.

But in February, manufacturing's woes spread to the construction industry, which shed 43,000 workers.

It was the second large job retreat in the sector in two months, an indication of the weakening housing market.

Scotia Capital economist Derek Holt says the numbers show Canada is now losing jobs at least as quickly as the United Sates, where the slump is believed to be much deeper. Last week, the U.S., which has roughly 10 times Canada's population, reported losing 691,000 in February.

The loss in so many full-time jobs also means that the economy's "income hit" will be greater as more workers were driven into lower-paying part-time employment, Holt said.

Regionally, Ontario lost the most with a 35,300 retreat, followed by Alberta, which saw 23,700 jobs disappear and Quebec, losing 18,400 workers.

"Since last October, just over half of the country's total employment losses have occurred in Ontario, well beyond the province's 39 per cent share of the total working-age population," Statistics Canada noted.

In the past four months, 160,000 jobs have disappeared in Ontario, mostly in manufacturing, business and construction.

The agency said another hard-hit segment of the labour force has been young male workers. Employment among men aged between 15 and 24 has decreased by 104,000 in the past four months.

But the misery is being shared by most groups of workers, most provinces and most industries.

The only industries with job pick-ups in February were manufacturing and agriculture, both industries where employment remains down from a year ago.

The only provinces not to record a job contraction were Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, Manitoba and Saskatchewan, where employment remained flat during February.

— The Canadian Press / with staff files

Note: Statistics Canada also released seasonally adjusted, three-month moving average unemployment rates for major cities but cautions the figures may fluctuate widely because they are based on small statistical samples.

[WhipperSnapper]

Ummm...Why not??

To clarify, the unemployment rate is a much better indicator than the employment rate which includes those that have the choice and means not to work.

My point is, the employment rate is only of use in tandem with other statistics. (prehaps I too the "forget unemployment" too literal)

[Dmajackson]

Knock on wood we aren't doing overly bad out here in the Maritimes. A couple major projects (offshore oil, LNG) are starting construction soon, the government in NS has announced a $1.9 Billion stimulus plan and all three major cities are reporting growth in the real estate sector.

All thanks to a very diverse economy and the lack of booms that happens here. Remember all that goes up must come down. :yes:

[cornholio]

someone said earlier the more socialist the region/province the better of they will be in this recession.

Well I couldn't agree more.

[Nicko999]

Alberta is 5.4%, not 6.7% link (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090313/t090313a4-eng.htm)


Oups... I was looking at BC!

[shreddog]

someone said earlier the more socialist the region/province the better of they will be in this recession.

Well I couldn't agree more.
Ummm, right. First off, the "recession" has barely started and no one knows when the economy will turn around so it is very difficult to forecast which region of the country will do better than any other.

Secondly, what the hell are you basing this on??? Which region would you consider the most "socialist"? Typically socialist governments are those that provide high levels of per capita government spending, a wealth of programs or services that could have been provided by private industry and high levels of government spending on social programs. You could also add interventionalist programs.

Using that criteria, Alberta would be considered the most socialist of provinces since it has the highest spending per capita on social programs (health, education, training, etc) has more capital spending - in absolute dollars, not per capita - than BC, Quebec or Ontario, has less private health care services than either Ontario or Quebec and spends more money overal on social programs. You could also say it has a more interventionalist government than most since it has the highest energy royalties in Canada, the most invasive provincial environmental policies, strongest provincial aboriginal policies, largest ongoing investment into public transit, etc.

It will also still has the best employment situation, the best provincial financial situation, lowest taxes, all three of which are unlikely to change.

So based on on your assertion Alberta will be in the best shape after this recession, however, I will have to disagree with that.

I think Windsor will be in the best "shape" after this recession. After the entire city becomes unemployed, they will just have to level the place and turn it into a nature preserve, thus returning it to its original Carolinian forest and thus leaving it in the best "shape" for future generations.

[mmmatt]

Regions in which unemployment rate went down between 2008 and 2009

_____________________________________

Province

Economic Region 2008 rate 2009 rate

_____________________________________

NFLD

Avalon Peninsula (St. Johns) 11.1 10.8

NS

Annapolis Valley 10.5 10.3

NB

Moncton-Richibucto 7.4 7.2

QC

Capitale-Nationale 5.3 5.2

Lanaudière 8.1 7.4

Mauricie 8.2 8.0

ON

Kingston-Pembroke 7.4 6.8

Muskoka-Kawarthas 8.4 6.0

MB

Southeast (Winnipeg) 5.6 5.1

North Central 5.3 2.5

SK

Swift Current-Moose Jaw 4.2 3.2



Source: Statscan: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/71-001-x/2009002/t021-eng.htm

[someone123]

Unemployment rates can be very misleading. Looking at those statistics, many regions saw a big increase in the size of their labour force and in many cases their participation rate also went up. An increase in the employment rate and participation rate coupled with a rising unemployment rate is actually a good thing, and is very different from a situation where a region is simply shedding jobs.

[Blitz]

I think Windsor will be in the best "shape" after this recession. After the entire city becomes unemployed, they will just have to level the place and turn it into a nature preserve, thus returning it to its original Carolinian forest and thus leaving it in the best "shape" for future generations.

...hardy har har

The recession has been ongoing in Windsor for at least a couple years now. Historically, it tends to be one of the first Canadian cities to experience a recession but also tends to be one of the first to see an upswing during a recession.

[Nicko999]

[SIZE="4"]

QC

Capitale-Nationale 5.3 5.2


Quebec City have an amazing economy! If only they could get rid of those NIMBYS...

[gilpel]

For your information, Quebec City has a unemployment rate of 3.9 % and the rental vacancy rate is only 0.6 %.

Residentiel values still go up...

Recession is around us but not really in our walls.

And yes, NIMBYS are a big big big problem....


.

[ssiguy]

MolsonExport has it right on the money.
You can use unemployment rates as a good measure but is only part of it.
If you make $60k in ROC you could afford a decent condo or house but in Vancouver that income wouldn't even qualify for a mortagage to get a bachelor condo. When someone in ROC has a $1000 mortgage and gets unemployed then things are rough but when you have a BC $2500 mortgage its bankruptsy.
Also "averages" can be deceiving. BC has a slight income level above the national average but it's median income is still below the national average as it has the largest gap between the rich and poor in tthe country, the highest overall poverty rate, and the highest rate of child poverty.
BCers also have {which is natural with its extreme house prices} the highest rate of personal debt. In otherwords your standard BCer when laid off will collect slightly less or the same amount of EI but will have mortgages up to 3 times higher than the average and sky high credit card debt.
Also most/above average BCers who have bought in the last 5 years are making payments on homes that are worth less than they bought them for and many have no equity because for new buyers zero down and 40 year mortages are the norm.
All provinces will have higher unemployment some more so than otheers but its the people who are in debt the most are the ones are in deep, deep trouble and in Canada that means BC.

[vid]

Thunder Bay has been in a recession since the beginning of the last recession. :haha: Take that, Windsor!

[mmmatt]

Unemployment rates can be very misleading. Looking at those statistics, many regions saw a big increase in the size of their labour force and in many cases their participation rate also went up. An increase in the employment rate and participation rate coupled with a rising unemployment rate is actually a good thing, and is very different from a situation where a region is simply shedding jobs.

True, you need to take it on a case by case basis, but in general, a rising unemployment rate is not a good thing.

[Nicko999]

More bad news:(
Employment declined by 61,000 in March, all in full-time work. This decrease pushed the unemployment rate up 0.3 percentage points to 8.0%, the highest rate in seven years.

Provinces by unemployement rate:
1. Saskatchewan: 4.7%(+0%)
2. Manitoba: 5.1%(+0.3%)
3. Alberta: 5.8%(+0.4%)
4. British Columbia: 7.4%(+0.7%)
5. Quebec: 8.3%(+0.4%)
6. Ontario: 8.7%(+0%)
7. Nova Scotia: 8.9%(+0.1%)
8. New Brunswick: 9.5%(+0.7%)
9. Prince Edward Island: 11.5%(-0.8%)
10. Newfoundland and Labrador: 14.7%(-0.4%)

[vid]

Thunder Bay's unemployment rate continues to be below the national and provincial averages.

SUCK ON IT WINDSOR!!!!

[1ajs]

for real real?

[salvius]

Poor Windsor... Must we really make fun of it? The past few years have been just brutal on the city.

[MonctonRad]

Provinces by unemployment rate:
1. Saskatchewan: 4.7%(+0%)
2. Manitoba: 5.1%(+0.3%)
3. Alberta: 5.8%(+0.4%)
4. British Columbia: 7.4%(+0.7%)
5. Quebec: 8.3%(+0.4%)
6. Ontario: 8.7%(+0%)
7. Nova Scotia: 8.9%(+0.1%)
8. New Brunswick: 9.5%(+0.7%)
9. Prince Edward Island: 11.5%(-0.8%)
10. Newfoundland and Labrador: 14.7%(-0.4%)


Despite the above stats,The Maritimes should not be considered an economic basket case. In particular, the economic corridor in the central Maritimes running from Saint John through Moncton and on to Halifax is doing very well thank you very much, as are also the capital cities of Fredericton and Charlottetown. The real problem areas are in northern NB and Cape Breton Island. Similarly in Newfoundland, the economy on the Avalon Penninsula is red hot while the rest of the province is struggling.

I would wager that in these areas of Atlantic Canada, the economy is stronger than in many places in southern Ontario

Moncton has economic 'momentum'
Published Friday April 10th, 2009

Metro's unemployment rate drops as jobless figures in rest of N.B. go up
By Nick Moore
Times & Transcript staff

Metro Moncton is holding its own in the midst of the economic recession.

Data released by Statistics Canada yesterday says the unemployment rate went down 1.1 per cent year-to-year in Metro Moncton, standing at 5.4 per cent last month, compared to 6.5 per cent in March 2008.
The labour force in Metro Moncton -- which includes Moncton, Dieppe, Riverview and the communities of Salisbury, Hillsborough, Memramcook and Dorchester -- grew year-to-year by 2.9 per cent, standing last month at 78,100. In March 2008 it stood at 75,200.

"It just goes to show that our economy definitely continues to lead the way," said Kevin Silliker, the City of Moncton's business development officer. "Certainly we're in a very enviable situation when you look at similar data from across the country."

Silliker said the diversity of businesses and companies operating within the region is keeping the area "well buffered" from economic troubles being seen elsewhere.

"It's allowing Moncton to continue this kind of momentum."

Silliker added that many construction projects either happening or about to happen in the area, including a new track and field facility at l'Université de Moncton, a new casino near Magnetic Hill, a new courthouse in downtown Moncton and a new expansion at NBCC Moncton, will keep Metro's economic momentum going.

[Dmajackson]

^Just to expand on that here are select Atlantic Canadian cities;

February 2009 | March 2009

St. John’s, Newfoundland and Labrador
Unemployment rate 7.4 7.4
Employment rate 64.7 64.5

Halifax, Nova Scotia
Unemployment rate 5.9 6.0
Employment rate 67.3 67.5

Saint John, New Brunswick
Unemployment rate 6.4 6.3
Employment rate 62.9 63.5

[shreddog]

While unemployment and employment numbers tell part of the story of a region's job situation, another key element is the number of people collecting EI. The ability to collect EI - both qualify and the duration - is influenced by local indicators such as employment and participation. In certain areas of the country - mainly done by CMA - it is easier to initially collect EI and the benefit period is longer. As such, the total number of EI benefactors can be used to indicate areas of chronic unemployment and difficulties in finding new jobs, things the unemployment rate cannot show. In support of that, here are some other numbers to reflect upon. (Latest from SC - Jan 2009 (http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quotidien/090324/dq090324a-eng.htm))

First the provinces .... highest to lowest.

ON – 181510
QC - 174850
BC - 56110
NL - 36870
NB - 30470
NS - 29110
AB - 23340
MB - 11670
SK – 9090

No surprise that ON is the highest, since it has nearly 40% of the total pop. I'll let someone else do a per capita relationship, but it is interesting to see the numbers for QC and the Maritime provinces. QC has slightly more than double AB's pop yet 7 times the number of EI recipients and both NB and NS have less than 1/3 AB's pop but nearly 40% more EI recipients.

Now let's look at CMA's. First the top ten:

TOR – 79900
MTL – 72480
VAN – 26020
CAL – 8940
OTT – 13290
EDM – 8530
QUE – 14940
WIN – 7120
HAM - 11830
K-W - 8910

And just for fun (and for Vid) here's a couple more interesting cities. Poor Windsor AND the Niagara penisula! Go T BAY!!!!!

Halifax - 6050
Windsor – 10570
St. Cath - 10510
T Bay - 2270

[vid]

The Thunder Bay District Social Services Board doesn't know why our number is so low and is going to investigate. I think it is a combination of people moving out of the city after losing their jobs, having sufficient savings to not need or qualify for EI or Ontario Works, or a large number of people seeing their EI benefits run out and they're being replaced at a fairly steady rate, making it look like fewer people are receiving the payments.

Our unemployment only went up 0.3% from March to February. Sudbury's went up 1.0% and is now equal to us but their employment rate is higher, and Sudbury's participation rate actually increased. More people are looking for work there. Windsor is.... Windsor. It took away Thunder Bay's "cheapest housing in Canada" title recently. :(

http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss03g-eng.htm

[MonctonRad]

News item from the Globe & Mail

Job seekers swarming to Atlantic provinces

Unemployed drawn to opportunities, quality of life in region hit less hard by slumping economy
TAVIA GRANT
From Friday's Globe and Mail
April 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM EDT

George Halliwell has been a headhunter in Charlottetown for the past seven years and has never seen such a wave of Canadians clamouring to move east.

“I'm searching for an engineer in Halifax right now – and everyone from the automotive industry in Ontario is applying for the job. They might make $60,000 in Toronto or Guelph, but they're willing to take $50,000 here because of the housing costs, the way of life is a lot simpler, there are no traffic jams and it's more family oriented.”

Businesses are benefiting because they can choose from a wider pool of skilled talent, says Mr. Halliwell, who does recruiting across Canada. “We're able to relocate people now who otherwise wouldn't think of coming to the Maritimes.”

His observations come as a Manpower Canada survey this month showed employers in Charlottetown are the most optimistic in the country about future hiring plans. “Confidence is rampant,” says Douglas Coles, vice-president of Coles Associates, who has hired two engineers recently and plans to hire more to help design new hotels, schools and hospitals in the province.

The upbeat mood isn't confined to Charlottetown. Atlantic Canada – much of which never fully boomed in the good times – has so far been insulated from the worst of the bust. Job losses have been more muted. Retail spending is outpacing the rest of the country. And the expected decline in house prices in other parts of Canada this year isn't forecast to occur in the East.

“We don't make cars. And we don't have the same exposure to commodities,” says Charles Cirtwill, Halifax-based executive vice-president of the Atlantic Institute for Market Studies. “We have a much more diversified economy, and a few areas [such as financial services] are even growing.”

The region isn't immune to a recession that's touched every corner of the globe. But employment numbers suggest it has so far been more cushioned in this downturn. Job losses have snowballed through Central Canada, Alberta and B.C., while employment levels in PEI and Nova Scotia have been flat since October. New Brunswick and Newfoundland have shed roughly 3,000 jobs apiece in that time, Statistics Canada calculates.

Some of the effect may be seasonal as employers ramp up in the tourism, agricultural and fisheries sectors.

But job growth isn't confined to those industries. Lockheed Martin Canada said Wednesday it plans to create up to 100 new jobs within the next five years in Halifax for positions ranging from software engineers to computer systems analysts. The move will more than double its workforce in the city.

The city's financial district also continues to expand. Bermuda-based Flagstone Reinsurance Holdings Ltd. said this month it's hiring up to 80 more people – positions with average salaries of about $100,000. Research In Motion Ltd., meantime, is halfway through hiring 1,200 over the next five years for a technical support operations centre.

Halifax boasts a skilled work force with a strong educational presence and much-lauded quality of life. But those aren't the only reasons for the job growth. The province is rewarding companies with “payroll rebates,” or money for each person hired. In Flagstone's case, for example, the rebate amounts to $1.3-million, or $16,380 per job.

But the job creation isn't just a one-month blip. Nova Scotia leads the country in full-time job growth over the past year, according to Statscan.

Signs of relative health in the region aren't confined to the labour market. Retail spending rose in all four Atlantic provinces in January, and the growth over the past year outstrips all other provinces except Saskatchewan, according to Statscan. Consumer confidence is climbing. And the most optimistic businesses in the country these days reside in Newfoundland and Labrador, a Canadian Federation of Independent Business poll showed this month.

The housing market, too, fares better by comparison. House prices in the Atlantic region are expected to rise or hold steady this year, compared to declines in the rest of the country, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. predicts.

“Elsewhere, it was looking like a bubble, but we didn't have that kind of thing here,” says Patrick Brannon, research analyst at the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council.

Migration flows reflect the changing tide. The region posted the smallest net outflow last year since 1984, according to the council. (In 2008, a net 500 people left Atlantic Canada to go to other provinces – a far cry from 2006, when a net 13,000 people left the region).

Back in Charlottetown, other recruiters are also noticing the shift. Blake Doyle, president of Island Recruiting, is seeing job applications flooding his office from as far away as Alberta and British Columbia.

They aren't just Islanders who want to return home. They're also laid-off, highly qualified professionals willing to migrate East for good jobs.

“It's a really funny anomaly what you see here,” he says. “It's the opposite of traditional trends.”

Fellow recruiter Mr. Halliwell is pleased about the new status of his hometown. “I'm from Charlottetown, and we've always been known as one of the have-nots. But we haven't had as much to lose as the haves.”


The unemployment rates for the big three Maritimes cities are:

Moncton.........5.4%
Halifax............6.0%
Saint John.......6.3%

The unemployment rate in the urban Maritimes is not too far off the rate for Alberta.

[brett.electrician]

I just moved from Hamilton to Saskatoon. There is a ton of work here for electricians. In my first 24hrs I had 4 job offers. All paid extremely well and offered benefits. Best of all the it was cheap to find a place to live. Pretty stoked on my new job, I get to travel the provinces doing arc flash hazard analysis and infra-red thermography.