[RED_PDXer]

I heard Metro President David Bragdon may be interested in the position...

[zilfondel]

I read part of the WWeek article that came out this week on Adams. Wow, what a gossipy piece it was. I couldn't believe that all they did was lay out some "findings" which didn't really seem to have any connection or point at all.

Well, I suppose at least they didn't write a completely overtly biased article.

[jaxg8r1]

wouldnt it be better to make that point in the next election? I am definitely hoping this goes down in flames, the city doesnt need to be wasting money on a recall.

Thats the point I was trying to make....

A recall election seems to be an expensive way to slap someone on the wrist. :cheers:

[scleeb]

wouldnt it be better to make that point in the next election? I am definitely hoping this goes down in flames, the city doesnt need to be wasting money on a recall.

How much time and money has already been spent in the AG's investigation of Adams? I'm sure it well into the six figures. The city and state has already expended a ton of money on this mess. That's not the point. The point here is this. Adams created a political environment so toxic that a recall vote is a near certainty. His despicable acts (repeated, self-serving lies) caused this mess. In order to for his administration to have any credibility going forward, Adams needs to subject himself to the voters of Portland as soon as possible. Otherwise, Adams will continue to be crippled and Randy Leonard will continue to act as the shadow mayor. (An unacceptable alternative in my opinion).

As an aside, the good people of this city have the right to recall any elected official. We waste hundreds of thousands of dollars each election cycle to publicly finance city council candidates with virtually no chance of election. The least we can do is let the voters of this city stand in judgment of our Mayor for his public acts (again lying). It is our right, and one well worth exercising.

[jaxg8r1]

How much time and money has already been spent in the AG's investigation of Adams? I'm sure it well into the six figures. The city and state has already expended a ton of money on this mess. That's not the point. The point here is this. Adams created a political environment so toxic that a recall vote is a near certainty. His despicable acts (repeated, self-serving lies) caused this mess. In order to for his administration to have any credibility going forward, Adams needs to subject himself to the voters of Portland as soon as possible. Otherwise, Adams will continue to be crippled and Randy Leonard will continue to act as the shadow mayor. (An unacceptable alternative in my opinion).

As an aside, the good people of this city have the right to recall any elected official. We waste hundreds of thousands of dollars each election cycle to publicly finance city council candidates with virtually no chance of election. The least we can do is let the voters of this city stand in judgment of our Mayor for his public acts (again lying). It is our right, and one well worth exercising.


Then by all means, sign the petition. I'm just not entirely sure (not that it matters) of your line of logic. You've already said that you would vote to keep Adams in office, but that you would essentially prefer the city to spend hundreds of thousands of *additional* dollars so the situation could be exactly the same as today (with Adams in office as mayor).

IMO, yes, he lied. But he lied something that should've never been asked in the first place (his personal sex life). And something that had nothing to do with his job or office. Hell, I'd probably lie about my sex life too. As would most people. And really, its not my (or anyone elses) business who any other adult sleeps with.

If he lied about something actually relevant to the city, his position, etc, then I might be signing the recall petition myself....

[PacificNW]

Delete Post

[alexjon]

Ball is satisfied and has stayed out of this at this point because this was his goal all along. You throw the suspicion out there and it sticks, even if the person is exonerated.

Idiots will blather on all day about how it was the lie, but they fail to realize that he was indeed telling the truth. They just refuse to acknowledge that Ball was telling everyone that Adams slept with a 17 year old.

[urbanlife]

How much time and money has already been spent in the AG's investigation of Adams? I'm sure it well into the six figures. The city and state has already expended a ton of money on this mess. That's not the point. The point here is this. Adams created a political environment so toxic that a recall vote is a near certainty. His despicable acts (repeated, self-serving lies) caused this mess. In order to for his administration to have any credibility going forward, Adams needs to subject himself to the voters of Portland as soon as possible. Otherwise, Adams will continue to be crippled and Randy Leonard will continue to act as the shadow mayor. (An unacceptable alternative in my opinion).

As an aside, the good people of this city have the right to recall any elected official. We waste hundreds of thousands of dollars each election cycle to publicly finance city council candidates with virtually no chance of election. The least we can do is let the voters of this city stand in judgment of our Mayor for his public acts (again lying). It is our right, and one well worth exercising.

So creating a giant circus mess is what the city needs?

I fail to see the importance of trying to recall someone who lied to a newspaper about the sex life....it was a question that probably should not of been asked in the first place...I would call that bad journalism and the reason why I dont really read any of the local papers.

Also, he was not under oath, so holding someone to a lie that they made to a back handed question seems wrong as well.

You are free to justify your intentions all you want, I just dont agree with your point of view on this.

[pdxtraveler]

I really think there would be no recall effort at all if that Jasun whathisface hadn't just graduated from PSU's Political Science program. He needs something for his resume to make him stand up above the million other activists out there. He is the only one you ever see quoted regarding the huge waste of money (my opinion any way).

[JordanL]

wouldnt it be better to make that point in the next election? I am definitely hoping this goes down in flames, the city doesnt need to be wasting money on a recall.

I think people in Portland would be fine with that if it weren't for our experiences with Vera.

[scleeb]

Then by all means, sign the petition. I'm just not entirely sure (not that it matters) of your line of logic. You've already said that you would vote to keep Adams in office, but that you would essentially prefer the city to spend hundreds of thousands of *additional* dollars so the situation could be exactly the same as today (with Adams in office as mayor).

IMO, yes, he lied. But he lied something that should've never been asked in the first place (his personal sex life). And something that had nothing to do with his job or office. Hell, I'd probably lie about my sex life too. As would most people. And really, its not my (or anyone elses) business who any other adult sleeps with.

If he lied about something actually relevant to the city, his position, etc, then I might be signing the recall petition myself....

Here's my reasoning behind signing a recall petition, but then voting to keep Adams in place. It gives the process back to the citizens of Portland. By giving the voters a chance to recall Sam Adams, it removes the cloud of "no-confidence" hanging over his head. If he survives the recall, he can hold his head high and say he has a working mandate from the people of Portland. If he looses the election, so be it. As things currently stand, our Governor and two Senators are unwilling to even be seen with Adams at public event. That is not a healthy working environment, and I think the only process that can clean up this mess (a mess created by solely by Adams, not the recall advocates) is to force the Mayor to stand before the voters once more.

[jaxg8r1]

Here's my reasoning behind signing a recall petition, but then voting to keep Adams in place. It gives the process back to the citizens of Portland. By giving the voters a chance to recall Sam Adams, it removes the cloud of "no-confidence" hanging over his head. If he survives the recall, he can hold his head high and say he has a working mandate from the people of Portland. If he looses the election, so be it. As things currently stand, our Governor and two Senators are unwilling to even be seen with Adams at public event. That is not a healthy working environment, and I think the only process that can clean up this mess (a mess created by solely by Adams, not the recall advocates) is to force the Mayor to stand before the voters once more.

Fair enough. I'm just not sure there is a "cloud" hanging over his head, at least amongts his constituents within the city. There certainly is if you include our local media, but then again there is a cloud of irrevelance hanging over them.

On the note about the Governor/Senator/Representative not standing with Mayor Adams, I think that had to do with the possible illegal behavior. Now that the Att Gen has cleared that up, we'll see if its still an issue.

[JordanL]

Fair enough. I'm just not sure there is a "cloud" hanging over his head, at least amongts his constituents within the city. There certainly is if you include our local media, but then again there is a cloud of irrevelance hanging over them.

On the note about the Governor/Senator/Representative not standing with Mayor Adams, I think that had to do with the possible illegal behavior. Now that the Att Gen has cleared that up, we'll see if its still an issue.

I am 100% on board with most of Adam's projects. I am also unphased by the actual "affair" as the FBI has concluded that everything was legal.

What I am still a bit frustrated by is Adam's willingness to lie until absolutely FORCED not to. It doesn't matter how irrelevant it is to the office, you don't lie to your constituents.

There is something I learned throughout my life so far. Generally the people who lie about the things they think people won't care about end up lying about the things people do care about. Whether it becomes habit, or loses it's negative connotation, or is a simple state of mind, people who have things where "it's okay to lie about these things to help myself" and "I shouldn't lie about these things because they're important" end up mixing the two groups up, whether or not that's an honest mistake.

I don't believe any politician is above being human, and every person I have ever met has held to this standard. I don't think a recall election will "fix" the problem I'm talking about, so I don't support it, but for me there is a cloud hanging over his head, and every time Adam's says something, a small part of me wonders if he's started blurring lines or not, without questioning his intention of course.

I think Adam's is one of the better intentioned Mayors we could have had, so I wouldn't question that. But he's still human, and eventually he will start blurring those lines. I just hope it happens after he leaves office. The man understands Portland, but Portland isn't above human nature and neither are its politicians.

[jaxg8r1]

I am 100% on board with most of Adam's projects. I am also unphased by the actual "affair" as the FBI has concluded that everything was legal.

What I am still a bit frustrated by is Adam's willingness to lie until absolutely FORCED not to. It doesn't matter how irrelevant it is to the office, you don't lie to your constituents.

There is something I learned throughout my life so far. Generally the people who lie about the things they think people won't care about end up lying about the things people do care about. Whether it becomes habit, or loses it's negative connotation, or is a simple state of mind, people who have things where "it's okay to lie about these things to help myself" and "I shouldn't lie about these things because they're important" end up mixing the two groups up, whether or not that's an honest mistake.

I don't believe any politician is above being human, and every person I have ever met has held to this standard. I don't think a recall election will "fix" the problem I'm talking about, so I don't support it, but for me there is a cloud hanging over his head, and every time Adam's says something, a small part of me wonders if he's started blurring lines or not, without questioning his intention of course.

I think Adam's is one of the better intentioned Mayors we could have had, so I wouldn't question that. But he's still human, and eventually he will start blurring those lines. I just hope it happens after he leaves office. The man understands Portland, but Portland isn't above human nature and neither are its politicians.

I don't disagree. And although I don't feel like defending his lie(s), I will say that a little perspective is warranted. And I mean that in as a 40 something year old gay man, things probably weren't as easy for him as they are now. Back when he was coming of age, lying about sex and sexuality was not only normal of gay men and women, but practically required. I know, because even though I'm much younger, I spent practically my entire teenage life (until I was 20ish) lying not only to others, but to myself. (I'm gay too) So at a very important time in his life, his "normal" was to instintively hide his sexual relations and deny them.

Now again, times are different and even if they weren't, integrity and honor should still count for something. But the original question from the media was based on a lie from someone else (that Mr. Ball guy insinuating that Mr Adams slept with an underage boy) and was clearly an attempt to influence an election against Mr. Adams. I'm not sure how I would've responded if I were in the same position (and had the same life experiences), and I suspect if people are completely honest with themselves, they can at least see why he did it.

[JordanL]

I actually believe that it's unfair to hold politicians to a standard like that, because in this particular case being a 40 year old gay man does have challenges of its own. But people willingly put themselves into the position of being a politician, and for that reason I feel that it's okay.

I don't for a second believe Adams is a bad person, or lacks integrity, but he did put himself in a position where honesty is expected, then failed to deliver. That's kind of my sticking point... it's like a professional athlete. No one criticizes an average person for being unable to score 25 points a game in basketball, but when that is the expectation of the position a person holds, criticism is certainly warranted.

Conversly I hold the media to that same standard of lies and such, so it isn't lost on me when a reporter does something like Mr Ball's hack job.

[jaxg8r1]

I actually believe that it's unfair to hold politicians to a standard like that, because in this particular case being a 40 year old gay man does have challenges of its own. But people willingly put themselves into the position of being a politician, and for that reason I feel that it's okay.

I don't for a second believe Adams is a bad person, or lacks integrity, but he did put himself in a position where honesty is expected, then failed to deliver. That's kind of my sticking point... it's like a professional athlete. No one criticizes an average person for being unable to score 25 points a game in basketball, but when that is the expectation of the position a person holds, criticism is certainly warranted.

Conversly I hold the media to that same standard of lies and such, so it isn't lost on me when a reporter does something like Mr Ball's hack job.

Fair enough, and I don't disagree. I feel like *something* should come of this, but ideally it would be some sort of "sunshine" law making local government more open to public scutiny, more open and transparent.

But if people want a recall election, although I can't support it, I understand the reasoning...

[bvpcvm]

Here's my reasoning behind signing a recall petition, but then voting to keep Adams in place. It gives the process back to the citizens of Portland. By giving the voters a chance to recall Sam Adams, it removes the cloud of "no-confidence" hanging over his head. If he survives the recall, he can hold his head high and say he has a working mandate from the people of Portland. If he looses the election, so be it. As things currently stand, our Governor and two Senators are unwilling to even be seen with Adams at public event. That is not a healthy working environment, and I think the only process that can clean up this mess (a mess created by solely by Adams, not the recall advocates) is to force the Mayor to stand before the voters once more.

wouldn't a failure to get the recall on the ballot accomplish the same thing?

[scleeb]

wouldn't a failure to get the recall on the ballot accomplish the same thing?

Absolutely. At this point, that my well be the best possible outcome. However, I still intend to sign the recall initiative. Recall organizers need to collect 50,000 signatures within in 90 days of filing. If they fail to get enough signatures, everyone in the community will know Adams still has a wide base of support. That being said, my sense is that the recall campaign will get the requisite number of signatures.

[alexjon]

Signature-wise, it's likely that the number of signatures will be equal to about half or a little less of those who voted against Sam.

Then again, based on the history of measures like this and researching it, they frequently get even less than that.

[scleeb]

Signature-wise, it's likely that the number of signatures will be equal to about half or a little less of those who voted against Sam.

Then again, based on the history of measures like this and researching it, they frequently get even less than that.

That analysis may be accurate in other locales, but in the current circumstance I think that it's flawed. For example, I was a major supporter of the Adams campaign, as were many of my friends, in 2008. I committed my time and resources on his behalf. Yet, as many of Adams' strongest supporters, we all feel severely betrayed. I bought into Sam's lies regarding Bob Ball's "smears", but Sam played me for a chump. I hate to use this forum to vent, but as I type these words, I can't help but feel the the anger welling up inside me all over again. I think many people that voted for Adams will sign a recall petition, if for no other reason than to express their displeasure with the current state of affairs. Now, more than ever, Portland needs an active/committed leader, not some glorified navel gazer. Sam Adams could have filled that bill, yet all I hear from my friends and family are snide innuendos and legitimate grievances. Bottom line, Portland needs a transformative mayor right now. Someone in the vein of Tom McCall, Terry Schrunk or Neil Goldschmit. Adams could have been on that list. Maybe he still can, but I have serious doubts.

[alexjon]

No, it's based on the circumstances of the prior 6 recalls in the history of Multnomah County, all with circumstances beyond Adams' (graft, for one).

And Bob Ball's smears were not true in the least, and you know it.

I don't know where your outrage is coming from, but personal impropriety that is neither illegal nor materially relevant to his position, regardless of whether or not he lied about it, should not be your concern or ours.

It's total B.S. that Portland applauds itself for its progressive thinking, but fair-weather supporters like yourself really cast a pale on it. It's giving Bob Ball's smear credit and it's letting something that heinous do its trick.

If you think you were betrayed, you're wrong. You were used by Ball.

Congrats.

[urbanlife]

You know I have to say, Randy Leonard's drama queen attitude recently bothers me much more than Sam telling a lie to a paper about his sex life...but that is the way I see it.

[alexjon]

Randy's been playing mayor for a while, and considering the massive amounts of fail involved with his little games...

The sign should be retooled to say "FAIL IN OREGON" with his face in neon.