Is "Steelerism" a good or bad thing for Pittsburgh? [Archive]

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 2:21 AM

With the Super Bowl approaching (and Pittsburgh's 7th appearance in it), I feel this is obviously a timely topic. Two days ago, I had a discussion over beers with a Pitt professor and a public works employee at Silky's Pub in Squirrel Hill on the topic of the Pittsburgh Steelers and their effect on the entire region. Interestingly enough, we all agreed, for the most part.

By "Steelerism", I am referring to what often seems to be the overwhelming religion and dominating common mindset in the Pittsburgh region. While great fan support of the home team is admirable and fans in many cities also take it to another level. I'm not just talking about wearing ridiculous costumes or body paint to games... every NFL stadium is filled with those idiots.

Pittsburgh is different. The Steelers are intertwined with the very fabric of the city. So much so that Pittsburgher's, in general, seem to pay more attention to the Steelers year-round than anything else; collectively not really caring what else is going on in their city, and indifferent to its state of affairs. And it's a shame really, given that the city is one of America's most interesting and offers so much more than just a successful football franchise for the past 30 years. Steelerism, in many ways, represents the mentality that exists within the Pittsburgh region's populace, the mentality that has worked to hold Pittsburgh back from attaining a higher national image for too long. Similar to "yinzerism", but unfortunately not exclusive to the less-educated.

Many disagree, I'm sure, but I think it is highly unfortunate that the first thing people think of when they hear the name "Pittsburgh" is the Steelers. Since I'm often traveling throughout the US for work, I encounter this constantly... I'd say 8 out of 10 times when I say I live in Pittsburgh, the first words out of their mouths are something about the Steelers or simply, "Oh, Steelers". Seeing that I love the city so much, I can't stand that. But then I return home and see a fat 50 year-old clown decked out in full Black and Gold regalia on a Wednesday afternoon... and then I see ten more of the same in the space of 15 minutes. And I think... no wonder... no wonder Pittsburgh's reputation is what it is.

Top Of The Park

Jan 28, 2009, 2:34 AM

krudmonk

Jan 28, 2009, 2:35 AM

Don't worry. I first think of the Penguins.

volguus zildrohar

Jan 28, 2009, 2:39 AM

I think it's a good thing. There are worse things in the world to get behind than The Steelers. It's an integral part I guess of living in Pittsburgh. The team is that city.

the urban politician

Jan 28, 2009, 2:44 AM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 2:46 AM

I'd say its a very good thing.....The Steeler's have shown what good teamwork can do on the gridiron...and is pretty much a theme for the entire city. The great thing is win or loose...it will continue there.

I think it's a good thing. There are worse things in the world to get behind than The Steelers. It's an integral part I guess of living in Pittsburgh. The team is that city.

Exactly my point. The city is so much more than the Steelers.

I have nothing against the Steelers as a team. I think the team itself is great. I respect the way the organization is run and they way they play as a team.

Now, if only the city could work as a team and get behind something much more important than football. If that enthusiasm for the team could carry over into enthusiasm for the city of Pittsburgh, and not simply because the Steelers are from Pittsburgh.

I guess one can't really understand either side unless one actually lives here.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 2:50 AM

I think the threadstarter's point is that Pittsburgh needs to find a way to define myself in more ways than just as the hometown of the Steelers. He seems to be implying that overzealous "Steelerism" is somehow stifling the city's ability to diversify its image in the eyes of not only its own residents, but outsiders.

I've never been to Pittsburgh, so have no opinion but to say that the Steelers are the first (and pretty much only) thing that comes to mind when somebody mentions Pittsburgh.

Yes, needs to find a way to define itself besides the Steelers, but the blind association continues to be perpetuated and continues to hold the city back. I should have been more clear in my original post. Thanks.

AveryStreet

Jan 28, 2009, 2:53 AM

But then I return home and see a fat 50 year-old clown decked out in full Black and Gold regalia on a Wednesday afternoon... and then I see ten more of the same in the space of 15 minutes. And I think... no wonder... no wonder Pittsburgh's reputation is what it is.

And thats just the women...

Without a doubt the mood and temperament of the entire city and region does rise and fall with the team's fortunes, on and off the field. Terrible Towels, terrible trees, terrible cookies, cheesy fight songs on the radio, fans holding vigil round the clock outside Mercy Hospital following Big Ben's motorcycle accident...I must admit the obsession with everything black and gold does get out of hand, and you're not out of line to call it as it is.

That said, Pittsburghers really see the team almost like members of their family, and for a city that has gone through tough times in its past, fan loyalty and dedication has served to boost civic pride, giving folks something to unite around and be proud of. Also, Steeler games continue to be a great vehicle for showing off our beautiful skyline to national tv audiences, which helps reverse the perception of Pittsburgh as some rotting, smoke-filled city.

LucasS6

Jan 28, 2009, 2:56 AM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 3:04 AM

And thats just the women...

That said, Pittsburghers really see the team almost like members of their family, and for a city that has gone through tough times in its past, fan loyalty and dedication has served to boost civic pride, giving folks something to unite around and be proud of. Also, Steeler games continue to be a great vehicle for showing off our beautiful skyline to national tv audiences, which helps reverse the perception of Pittsburgh as some rotting, smoke-filled city.

:haha:

I fully understand the reasons for the passion and dedication to the Steelers (I can remember Super Bowl XII and XIV), but it seems that it has become the ONLY thing that Pittsburghers care to rally behind. That is what is especially unfortunate for the city, when it offers so much in terms of education, natural beauty, history, and culture for a city of its size. And, we get a less-than-favorable reputation because of it.

plinko

Jan 28, 2009, 3:13 AM

Hmmm...is it better to be from a city that has some sort of singular general identity or none at all? Hard to say.

There are certain cities that just have that sort of thing (despite their inaccuracies):
Seattle = Rain
Detroit = Bad Cars
Buffalo = Snow
Salt Lake City = Mormons
San Antonio = Alamo
...and so on...

But wouldn't you rather be from a city that's generally associated with something rather than nothing?
Columbus?
Albuquerque?
Jacksonville?
Tulsa?
Cincinnati?
Kansas City?

I guess the reality is that Pittsburgh is much much larger than most of those cities and should be better known for something other than a sports team? Hmmm... and Pittsburgh may be the only one that is really just known for a sports team (in a general stupid public sense)...any others? Green Bay...that's the only other one that really comes to mind.

I spent 3 days in Pittsburgh last summer and found the city to be fantastic (and there's much more to do than I would have ever thought). Gorgeous topography, skyline, ballparks, city.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 3:14 AM

You're obviously from the area, so you probably know better than I, but I think you're exaggerating a bit. When you I say Green Bay, what do you think of? Kansas City? (I know you didn't just think of the Royals). The cities that are among the smallest in their respective leagues will always be most closely correlated on a national level with their best (or only) sports franchise- and residents will in turn recognize that their city is defined by the majority of the nation by that and do so in kind. I wouldn't put a value judgment on it- I don't think it's a "good" or "bad" type of question.

Can you honestly think of Portland for more than 30 seconds without the Trailblazers coming to mind? I lived in the area and I can't. Why? Partly because of the publicity of it nationally before I had ever step foot in it, and partly because when I got there I realized how rabid the people were for the team.

I'm actually not exaggerating at all. I'm probably being quite generous, actually. Take a trip to Pittsburgh, even in the summer, and see how much Steelers gear you see worn on the streets... unlike anywhere else.

Green Bay is an anomaly in the US. It is a small city, you know, with very little else besides the Packers. You can't even begin to compare Green Bay to Pittsburgh, or any other major league city, for that matter. Sports teams are definitely not what first come to mind when most people hear Kansas City or Portland.

LucasS6

Jan 28, 2009, 3:18 AM

I'm actually not exaggerating at all. I'm probably being quite generous, actually. Take a trip to Pittsburgh, even in the summer, and see how much Steelers gear you see worn on the streets... unlike anywhere else.

Green Bay is an anomaly in the US. It is a small city, you know, with very little else besides the Packers. You can't even begin to compare Green Bay to Pittsburgh, or any other major league city, for that matter. Sports teams are definitely not what first come to mind when most people hear Kansas City or Portland.

Well what, pray tell, comes to find when you think of Kansas City? If you don't immediately think of the Chiefs (and the city being in Kansas :haha: ) you're among the very few.

And my point was if you spent a lot of time in Portland, you'd probably be more inclined to think of the Blazers when you thought of the city. The team sold out virtually every game from the mid 80s to the late 90s (and recently started back up again). That's no small feat for a sport that has 41 home games. The Portland/Blazer love affair is almost as strong as the Pittsbugh/Steeler one, I kid you not.

JackStraw

Jan 28, 2009, 3:22 AM

What cities have you lived in? From my understanding you went to school here, and then went to N.Y., and now you're back?

It is obvious that a international city like N.Y. isn't going to have as much of it's percentage of citizens rallying behing the Giants like Pittsburghers are going to rally behind the Steelers.

When I lived in Denver, the locals were all about the Broncos. Just as much as a Pittsburgh is decked out in Steeler gear. The only difference was, there was a much larger amount of transplants that flooded some of the fanaticism out.

I do agree though that I wish people outside of the Burgh would think more about the Pittsburgh than the Steelers. I get pissed everytime I watch the Steelers on NBC and they show the one and only steel mill in Pittsburgh turning molten iron out of a blast furnace, and the announcers keep calling it the "Steel City".

I like when fox holds the games and takes the time for creative shots like the incline, the skyline, and the confluence.

AveryStreet

Jan 28, 2009, 3:31 AM

The Portland/Blazer love affair is almost as strong as the Pittsbugh/Steeler one, I kid you not.

An honest question for curiosity sake,

In a city such as Portland, are Fridays during basketball season dubbed 'Trailblazer Days', where every business encourages their employees, male and female, to wear their game jerseys and team colors to work? Does this happen in other places too, or are rituals like 'Black and Gold Days' just Pittsburgh things?

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 3:38 AM

What cities have you lived in? From my understanding you went to school here, and then went to N.Y., and now you're back?

It is obvious that a international city like N.Y. isn't going to have as much of it's percentage of citizens rallying behing the Giants like Pittsburghers are going to rally behind the Steelers.

When I lived in Denver, the locals were all about the Broncos. Just as much as a Pittsburgh is decked out in Steeler gear. The only difference was, there was a much larger amount of transplants that flooded some of the fanaticism out.

I do agree though that I wish people outside of the Burgh would think more about the Pittsburgh than the Steelers.

Not quite... grew up in Erie and Pittsburgh, then Miami, Dallas, Houston, New Orleans, New York City, and back to Pittsburgh.

This discussion and my point was never really about rallying behind the Steelers or who wears as much or more gear.

And, your last above statement is precisely what I'm talking about. People outside of Pittsburgh would think more about Pittsburgh than the Steelers, if people FROM Pittsburgh thought more about Pittsburgh than the Steelers. This is exactly what I'm talking about. That is the image we continue to perpetuate and the image we therefore are stuck with.

That's what bothers me. Pittsburgh offers so much more. Everything I feel is pretty much in the first few posts.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 3:43 AM

Well what, pray tell, comes to find when you think of Kansas City? If you don't immediately think of the Chiefs (and the city being in Kansas :haha: ) you're among the very few.

And my point was if you spent a lot of time in Portland, you'd probably be more inclined to think of the Blazers when you thought of the city. The team sold out virtually every game from the mid 80s to the late 90s (and recently started back up again). That's no small feat for a sport that has 41 home games. The Portland/Blazer love affair is almost as strong as the Pittsbugh/Steeler one, I kid you not.

I actually think of jazz and barbecue and a nice well-planned urban area with nice boulevards, then maybe the Chiefs and Royals. As for Portland, no one outside of Portalnd really thinks of the Blazers. Sorry, but I bet most Americans could not even tell you that Portland had a pro basketball team. Still, this really is not what I'm talking about and I don't want to get off-topic.

killaviews

Jan 28, 2009, 3:44 AM

It's not a problem until Saturday Night Live has a successful skit imitating your fans every weekend and the rest of the country starts to believe your city is full of fat guys with mustaches as thick as their accents, or I mean fat guys in black and gold body paint.

And then it's not a problem if the skit is really really funny.

LucasS6

Jan 28, 2009, 3:47 AM

I actually think of jazz and barbecue and a nice well-planned urban area with nice boulevards, then maybe the Chiefs and Royals. As for Portland, no one outside of Portalnd really thinks of the Blazers. Sorry, but I bet most Americans could not even tell you that Portland had a pro basketball team. Still, this really is not what I'm talking about and I don't want to get off-topic.

You don't have to sorry me, I'm from Chicago. The point remains that the only city I've ever seen that has as much a love affair with a team as Portland has with the Blazers (their only team, unlike Pittsburgh), is Green Bay with the Packers.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 3:50 AM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 4:05 AM

You don't have to sorry me, I'm from Chicago. The point remains that the only city I've ever seen that has as much a love affair with a team as Portland has with the Blazers (their only team, unlike Pittsburgh), is Green Bay with the Packers.

I understand what you're saying, but the discussion is specifically about Pittsburgh. I was never really comparing it directly with anywhere else. It is definitely not about what cities have the best fans, loyalty, etc.

The topic is really directed at Pittsburghers.

Strange Meat

Jan 28, 2009, 4:10 AM

AaronPGH

Jan 28, 2009, 4:15 AM

I would say you're exaggerating a little bit as well. It's certainly not what most of my out of town friends think about when they hear the word Pittsburgh...then again, they've been here. Try to enjoy the weekend. Go Steelers!

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 4:18 AM

I don't get it? How is it holding Pittsburgh back? I mean, if it wasn't for the Steelers, maybe people wouldn't think of Pittsburgh at all, or maybe they'd think of brownfields and a decrepit steel industry?

Again, exactly proving my point. Pittsburgh DOES have so much more. But all we here in Pittsburgh seem to care about is the Steelers... and do nothing to change that. So, the old, well-deserved (though ignorant) stereotype of decrepit steel industry and pollution in Pittsburgh still exists.

It's very difficult for someone who doesn't live here to understand the mentality present in the region.

Crawford

Jan 28, 2009, 4:29 AM

Well what, pray tell, comes to find when you think of Kansas City? If you don't immediately think of the Chiefs (and the city being in Kansas :haha: ) you're among the very few.

Nope. Chiefs aren't very-well known at all in the East. Never met a Chiefs fan.

For KC, we think Dorothy/Wizard of Oz, Great Plains, boring people and barbecue.

The Portland/Blazer love affair is almost as strong as the Pittsbugh/Steeler one, I kid you not.

This must be a West Coast thing, because nobody on the East Coast knows a thing about the Trail Blazers. They are one of those obscure NBA teams, like the Grizzlies and the Thundercats, or whatever it is they have in OKC.

When we think Portland, we think transit, smug liberalism, Green, granola/hippyish, brewpubs, tech, very white, very secular, Pearl district, Nike, etc.

The Trail Blazers are pretty much an unknown quantity.

Now Pittsburgh, on the other hand is obviously all about the STEELERS and their fans (i imagine fat white dudes with moustaches and funny accents). Not sure if the Steelers image is a good thing or bad thing.

JackStraw

Jan 28, 2009, 4:41 AM

Again, exactly proving my point. Pittsburgh DOES have so much more. But all we here in Pittsburgh seem to care about is the Steelers... and do nothing to change that. So, the old, well-deserved (though ignorant) stereotype of decrepit steel industry and pollution in Pittsburgh still exists.

It's very difficult for someone who doesn't live here to understand the mentality present in the region.

I think it is because we don't have a large amount of Transplants here. Most are locals so don't think about what they have as unique and great. People root for the Steelers because it is a local pride thing, as well as something they learned from their parents.

To change the word associations as mentioned above when people think of Pittsburgh is going to take time. It will take a few generations, and not just years. We need to get people to travel here, see our museums, our neighborhoods, and check out our architecture and topography. The next generation probably won't associate Steel with Pittsburgh. However, I do agree that we need to exploit more of our city so it is something other than just Steel. Thats why I was pissed with NBC's shot of molten iron pouring out of a blast furnace.

When I think of Seattle I think of: Coffee, Rain, Microsoft, and the space needle. However, once I travel there everything would surely change. The same would happen if more people would travel here.

I know many Pittsburghers though that are intelligent, cultured, and educated. Many still watch the Steelers on Sunday, but the average Pittsburgh is much more sophisticated then your fat, drunk, idiot that only babbles about football for 100 hours a week. (I work with one, but they are in every city)

There are many here who only talk about sports, and nothing else really captures their intellect, like going to the Carnegie museums, Heinz Hall, or the Warhol. But those type exist everywhere. This is what we need to get people to travel here and see, and there are many people who are intelligent that visit here and take advantage of other things that only sports teams.

We as a city need to try our hardest to get Pittsburgh's word associations to go from:

Steel, Ketchup, the Steelers, Clouds to Education, unique, bridges, four seasons, and the Steelers.

But be happy that we have something else than just the steelers, and I agree that I wish others would realize that who never been here. Guess I will work on another Pittsburgh photo thread to show atleast two people shots that never seen it before.

Evergrey

Jan 28, 2009, 4:42 AM

I think it's a mixed blessing... at least Pittsburgh is associated with an extremely successful and classy football organization... think about it... we could be Cleveland (Browns) lol Other than us urban-minded dorks on here... very few people think about urban design innovations when almost any city is mentioned...

I love the Steelers... football is my favorite sport... but I don't own a single piece of Steeler merchandise... partially due to the overwhelming Steelerism here... I'd probably wear the black and gold if I was living somewhere else... Even I can grow weary at the non-stop Steeler clothing, lawn decorations... and how local television news is dominated by the most inane Steeler-related stories

I think the Steeler fanaticism does support an element of civic pride... and is a connective tissue for people in the region, people who've moved away (and their children), and people around the world who have no connection to Pittsburgh other than rooting for the Steelers... the unprecedented success of the Steelers in the crucial decade of the 1970s... and continued success since then... as developed a Steeler Nation much bigger than Pittsburgh and its global connections... and this is an asset Pittsburgh can tap into

That said... I worry that the Steeler fanaticism may be a turn-off to in-migrants... supporting a form of parochialism (though I have met many who've moved here from other regions and became Steeler fans due to the atmosphere). I also loathe when certain puerile young mayors pull off puckish Steeler-related publicity ploys to generate political capital

You may find the thoughts pertaining to this subject on this blog interesting:
http://burghdiaspora.blogspot.com/

Yinzerism is a different topic... sort of a bizarre "urban redneck" condition... I'd like to see it eliminated

Love the avatar, btw

SuburbanNation

Jan 28, 2009, 4:48 AM

i'm sure it's no different than cardinals nation here - its an endearing tribe and way of life to natives and converts, and insane, provincial and off putting mania to everyone else.

SuburbanNation

Jan 28, 2009, 4:51 AM

Well what, pray tell, comes to find when you think of Kansas City? If you don't immediately think of the Chiefs (and the city being in Kansas :haha: ) you're among the very few.

look at a map for some clarification...and no, the chiefs don't come to mind for me...especially if you know anything about the mob and the history of las vegas ya babbo!

fflint

Jan 28, 2009, 5:03 AM

Terrible Towels, terrible trees, terrible cookies, cheesy fight songs on the radio,
SF had all of that when I was a kid, so don't be too tough on yourselves.

fans holding vigil round the clock outside Mercy Hospital following Big Ben's motorcycle accident...
Fascinating, in a good way. Look, Pittsburgh has an identity that is internally and externally consistent. How is that bad?

People know Pittsburgh is a city, at least here in California (where many are from back east), and yes, they also don't know much about the place other than Steelers. But it's not like they know anything about Indanapolis or Columbus, either. Or Kansas City or Louisville or Memphis. It's not a personal thing. This is a big country, and many people don't travel nationwide much.

That said, Pittsburghers really see the team almost like members of their family, and for a city that has gone through tough times in its past, fan loyalty and dedication has served to boost civic pride, giving folks something to unite around and be proud of. Also, Steeler games continue to be a great vehicle for showing off our beautiful skyline to national tv audiences, which helps reverse the perception of Pittsburgh as some rotting, smoke-filled city.
Self-consciousness is not an attractive trait in a city. Pittsburgh is not self-conscious, insofar as most people there enjoy integrating the Steelers into their lives to some extent without regard for outside appearances--and the rest of the country is okay with that. It's really not a big deal. At least Pittsburgh has a national identity of some kind--many cities don't (Tucson in the house! What?).

I'd like to see your city continue to rebound at a desirable and sustainable pace, and local flavor--which is my take on what is being described in this thread--is an unusually strong selling point in an increasingly bland, global monoculture.

The key to Pittsburgh's continued success lies in retaining the local culture, but then building on it. The question of local flavor was brought up in the context of whether Steerlism should end and be replaced with something else that better nurtures future growth or some other long term benefit. But that's a false dilemma. Pittsburgh can retain Steelerism and forumers can advocate for whatever more positive or beneficial change they'd like to see in Pittsburgh by convincing the Steelers organization to promote their ideas.

Do the Steelers promote the city of Pittsburgh beyond their own interests? Explicitly promote downtown life? Promote better transit, or neighborhood schools or whatever local issues are most pressing? And advocate for growth and change can use the existing civic culture to improve the city by convincing the Steelers organization to help the city back. Just a thought.

Visualize

Jan 28, 2009, 5:14 AM

LMich

Jan 28, 2009, 5:32 AM

Steelerism as a net negative?! Say what?! The thought never even crossed my mind. It's a more-than-impressive and overall healthy phenomenon if you ask me.

Steelerism doesn't need a cure; it is the cure. lol

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 5:34 AM

But be happy that we have something else than just the steelers, and I agree that I wish others would realize that who never been here. Guess I will work on another Pittsburgh photo thread to show atleast two people shots that never seen it before.

I am definitely happy that Pittsburgh has the attributes it has, unknown or not. Looking forward to seeing a new 'burgh photo tour!

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 5:54 AM

I think it's a mixed blessing... at least Pittsburgh is associated with an extremely successful and classy football organization... think about it... we could be Cleveland (Browns) lol

I love the Steelers... football is my favorite sport... but I don't own a single piece of Steeler merchandise... partially due to the overwhelming Steelerism here... I'd probably wear the black and gold if I was living somewhere else... Even I can grow weary at the non-stop Steeler clothing, lawn decorations... and how local television news is dominated by the most inane Steeler-related stories

Yinzerism is a different topic... sort of a bizarre "urban redneck" condition... I'd like to see it eliminated

Love the avatar, btw

Hey, the Browns are too easy a target, let's not kick a team while its down.:)
Let's also remember that the Browns won 8 NFL & AAFC championships and provided the Steelers with the reason for their rise to greatness, Chuck Noll. I gotta give 'em respect, as they did the domination thing before the Steelers did it in the 70s.

I love good fans. That's the main ingredient that separates great sports cities like Pittsburgh from places like Tampa. I know you understand what I mean when I talk of "Steelerism"... that it goes far beyond love of the sport. I don't own a single piece of Steelers gear either, for the same Steelerism reason... and the fact that I'm not 13 years old anymore.

As for Yinzerism... unfortunately, I really think it goes along with Steelerism all too often.

Vangelist

Jan 28, 2009, 5:59 AM

I don't think folks here are getting the thread starter's point. As someone who's lived there before, and still has some (now very little) family and friends there...there is NO comparison to other cities' relationship to their sports teams, and the extremely deep level of identification Pittsburghers have with their teams (Pirates and Penguins included - "City of Champions" after all).

As has been mentioned, it's akin to a state/local religion - a fundamentalist religion - and not worshipping the team is downright heretical, if not blasphemous. You are mistrusted and looked at with suspicion if you don't show ANY interest or loyalty towards the home teams. The players are worshipped as minor deities, the terrible towels are shaken with ritualistic fervor, and the populace's entire sense of pride, self-worth and civic identification (on a personal AND civic level) centers around the success of the teams. Peoples' entire social circles, weekend schedules, vacations, etc etc - all only revolve around one thing: watching the games. I distinctly remember how the paper in Pittsburgh had to do a news story during the Superbowl in the mid-90s, about the bizarre notion that "some kids are not interested in watching the game." Pictures of kids at an ice-rink, skating were included as proof. It was somehow newsworthy....

Comparing that to a city like Portland, where there are a tremendous amount of other connotations and civic attributes appearing in the mind of resident and visitor alike, is baseless. Green Bay is more similar, but still doesn't come close. The only place I can possibly think of as coming "close" are those small Texan/Southern towns, where everyone is obsessed with football (like in "Friday Night Lights,") from a high school level onwards. Now think of that, but imagine a city of over a million behaving the same way. The ferocity and fanatic loyalty of Steelermania is unmatched anywhere in the country. I'm not the only one who's noticed this phenom, of course:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeler_nation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_sports_lore

And as you can read, there might be specific reasons in the city's history and its self-image that it's played out like this - the 1970s closing of the steel mills, the super bowl and world series championships of the time being used by people to distract themselves from the recession, etc. But the fact remains that even after Pittsburgh's economy recovered by the 90s, it remained at heart a "sports town," with a "sports culture" being dominant over any other form of socialization. The very glue that's tying the city's residents together - instead of communally noting/appreciating/even recognizing a city's shared/public spaces, as happens in other places

It's interesting, but I've noted this to myself before: my friends who still live in Pittsburgh, kind of give the impression that city sports are all they care about. For example, on facebook, the only time their "status" is updated is when it's about the weekly game, or how they feel in relation to the game. It's made me wonder: is there nothing else to care about? It's the reason why many feel that thats all Pittsburghers have going on in their lives to start with - their sports teams ARE their lives. It's all what many of these people are living for, as it's all they think about 24/7. There is really nothing else that evokes such passion in them.

Where I differ with the thread starter is possibly in the notion that Pittsburgh genuinely *does* have "so much more to offer." Does it, really - in a way that's unique? Of course everything is relative (...relative to what? Buffalo, perhaps but not a place like Austin), ...but I believe it's a city that's strangely overrated here on SSP, because it has a nicely preserved downtown. I think the reason Pittsburghers have been so obsessed with their teams over the past 40 years is because it's the one area they know that their town IS amongst the best. Because let's face it, Pittsburgh is never going to be known as having a thriving, say, music or independent film scene. It pales in history & culture to Philadelphia. The arts scene is dead; the grey winters are a curse to get through. Yet after an Iron City or four, yinzers can look with pride - and it's justified - at their champions, who have continually brought them civic glory, in one sport of another for so long now. This is a reason why, despite a few great universities (especially Carnegie Mellon), Pittsburgh has failed to retain its youth, its best and the brightest, as there has been a continuous mass exodus of graduates when it comes time to settling down and building a career - to one of the more "exciting cities." And yet, as Parade or whichever other national lifestyle magazines have noted, Pittsburgh frequently comes up top when middle class-defined "livability" is ranked, and has more than once since the mid-80s won those "best place to raise an American family" type of listings...is this contradictory? Not in my mind.

Because: it is a great place to live if you want to settle down and raise the all-American, sports-oriented, football-loving family within the conformity of sports-oriented Midwestern values. But if you don't fit in with that mindset, either due to ambition or interests, it can be difficult - since the people there only have that singular mindset. There is only one dominant way of having or sharing fun, one identity that's meant to blanket all differences. It can be stifling, as the thread starter said, as it comes to singularly define the city - and if you don't share in these specific enthusiasms, it can be as isolating to live there as it would be for a Buddhist nun to live in Mecca.

Vangelist

Jan 28, 2009, 6:21 AM

There are positive and negative aspects to such strong identifications, and again I think - as the Pittsburghers on the thread are saying - you'd have to live there for some time to understand. You cannot truly compare it to other cities.

>Yinzerism is a different topic... sort of a bizarre "urban redneck" condition... I'd like to see it eliminated

That would never happen. Only when gum bands and worshing masheens go extinct

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 6:37 AM

Just curious...How would you like Pittsburgh to be generalized?...like in one sentence with a couple commas. What should I think when I hear Pittsburgh?

Gotta say, it is kind of funny that someone who is not excited about their city being characterized by the Steelers has a football coach as their avatar.:D

Not strictly generalized. I just know that Pittsburgh is truly a unique American city; one of our select special urban places that deserves to have a reputation much greater than what it has. Living here, it can often seem that nothing else matters in the city besides the Steelers (year-round)... far more than anywhere else I have ever lived or visited. And I think it speaks to a collective mentality that continues to plague this region... one that does not look to the future (besides next season), but remains stuck in the past.

As for the avatar of Chuck Noll... I love football and he is an icon of the game... smart, tough, and a class act all the way... Shula is another from that school. Growing up in the virtual cradle of football (Western PA and Eastern OH), we have a different appreciation for the game. My great-grandfather played for some of the first professional football clubs in Pittsburgh many moons ago. I played in high school and in college and still try not to hurt myself playing with my younger cousins. I love it, but don't want my city to be solely characterized by its pro football team.

Steelerism as a net negative?! Say what?! The thought never even crossed my mind. It's a more-than-impressive and overall healthy phenomenon if you ask me.

Steelerism doesn't need a cure; it is the cure. lol

Again, there is nothing wrong with great, supportive (even near-manical) fans. Steelerism, by my definition and what people who live here can likely attest to,describes something else entirely.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 6:49 AM

As has been mentioned, it's akin to a state/local religion - a fundamentalist religion - and not worshipping the team is downright heretical, if not blasphemous. You are mistrusted and looked at with suspicion if you don't show ANY interest or loyalty towards the home teams. The players are worshipped as minor deities, the terrible towels are shaken with ritualistic fervor, and the populace's entire sense of pride, self-worth and civic identification (on a personal AND civic level) centers around the success of the teams. Peoples' entire social circles, weekend schedules, vacations, etc etc - all only revolve around one thing: watching the games. I distinctly remember how the paper in Pittsburgh had to do a news story during the Superbowl in the mid-90s, about the bizarre notion that "some kids are not interested in watching the game." Pictures of kids at an ice-rink, skating were included as proof. It was somehow newsworthy....

It's interesting, but I've noted this to myself before: my friends who still live in Pittsburgh, kind of give the impression that city sports are all they care about. For example, on facebook, the only time their "status" is updated is when it's about the weekly game, or how they feel in relation to the game. It's made me wonder: is there nothing else to care about? It's the reason why many feel that thats all Pittsburghers have going on in their lives to start with - their sports teams ARE their lives. It's all what many of these people are living for, as it's all they think about 24/7. There is really nothing else that evokes such passion in them.

Yes.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 6:59 AM

Where I differ with the thread starter is possibly in the notion that Pittsburgh genuinely *does* have "so much more to offer." Does it, really - in a way that's unique? Of course everything is relative (...relative to what? Buffalo, perhaps but not a place like Austin), ...but I believe it's a city that's strangely overrated here on SSP, because it has a nicely preserved downtown. I think the reason Pittsburghers have been so obsessed with their teams over the past 40 years is because it's the one area they know that their town IS amongst the best. Because let's face it, Pittsburgh is never going to be known as having a thriving, say, music or independent film scene. It pales in history & culture to Philadelphia. The arts scene is dead; the grey winters are a curse to get through. Yet after an Iron City or four, yinzers can look with pride - and it's justified - at their champions, who have continually brought them civic glory, in one sport of another for so long now. This is a reason why, despite a few great universities (especially Carnegie Mellon), Pittsburgh has failed to retain its youth, its best and the brightest, as there has been a continuous mass exodus of graduates when it comes time to settling down and building a career - to one of the more "exciting cities." And yet, as Parade or whichever other national lifestyle magazines have noted, Pittsburgh frequently comes up top when middle class-defined "livability" is ranked, and has more than once since the mid-80s won those "best place to raise an American family" type of listings...is this contradictory? Not in my mind.

Because: it is a great place to live if you want to settle down and raise the all-American, sports-oriented, football-loving family within the conformity of sports-oriented Midwestern values. But if you don't fit in with that mindset, either due to ambition or interests, it can be difficult - since the people there only have that singular mindset. There is only one dominant way of having or sharing fun, one identity that's meant to blanket all differences. It can be stifling, as the thread starter said, as it comes to singularly define the city - and if you don't share in these specific enthusiasms, it can be as isolating to live there as it would be for a Buddhist nun to live in Mecca.

Since you bring up Austin... I actually think Austin is one of the most overrated cities there is. I like it, sure. But because it is in Texas (where pretty much every other city totally sucks for the most part) and its a relatively cool place, people act like it's some sort of Shangri-La. It's not at all. It's great for Texas, period.

As for paling in comparison to Philly's history and culture, yeah, pretty much just about everywhere in the US does. But Pittsburgh certainly has much more of that than 90% of places in the US.

As for Pittsburgh's art scene being dead, that is just highly incorrect.

You address many of the points very well and I fully agree with much of your post. You address the things that I hope will change about Pittsburgh.

Evergrey

Jan 28, 2009, 7:19 AM

You address many of the points very well and I fully agree with much of your post. You address the things that I hope will change about Pittsburgh.

Agreed. While I strongly disagree with Vangelist's appraisal of Pittsburgh as a bland arts-deficient Stepford-wife conformist dystopia suffering from brain drain existing in some vast Richard Florida "coolness" chasm between Austin and Buffalo... he/she did understand the nuance of your question... and addressed the negative potential of the internal dynamics of Steelerism (in particular, its Yinzer components)... and especially how it may affect someone who has come here from elsewhere and is not interested in Steeler football. That is something I worry about... and it obviously manifested itself in its worst manner in Vangelist's experience.

I also agree with your point, pj3000, about how so many of our neighbors seem to ignore the many unique urban charms of our Appalachian metropolis... Pittsburgh is only about the Steelers to them

Strange Meat

Jan 28, 2009, 7:48 AM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 8:05 AM

Agreed. While I strongly disagree with Vangelist's appraisal of Pittsburgh as a bland arts-deficient Stepford-wife conformist dystopia suffering from brain drain existing in some vast Richard Florida "coolness" chasm between Austin and Buffalo... he/she did understand the nuance of your question... and addressed the negative potential of the internal dynamics of Steelerism (in particular, its Yinzer components)... and especially how it may affect someone who has come here from elsewhere and is not interested in Steeler football. That is something I worry about... and it obviously manifested itself in its worst manner in Vangelist's experience.

I also agree with your point, pj3000, about how so many of our neighbors seem to ignore the many unique urban charms of our Appalachian metropolis... Pittsburgh is only about the Steelers to them

Right. That assessment was a little bit too rust-belt gloom and doom and not what exists in Pittsburgh's reality. "Richard Florida coolness chasm"... that's awesome.

I figured that among Pittsburgh posters on here, you would at least understand my point of view on the topic.

Vangelist

Jan 28, 2009, 8:25 AM

Now, now guys - that's funny, but my intention is not to disparage Steel City as a "Stepford wife dystopia," (ha) etc - if I could, I'd critique much of American society that way, and wouldn't unnecessarily single da Burgh out. But keep my comments in context: I was trying to emphasize that Pittsburgh, if you guys can be objective about it, is not likely going to be known for arts, culture, media, sciences, historical monuments, or any location-specific industry post-coal/steel (like SF is for tech, or Houston & oil, etc.). It does not have a highly unique, tourist-friendly past (like New Orleans), or associations/promises with growing into something new in the future (like Miami or even Atlanta). And yet, it is a tremendous thing that since the last (serious) national recession in the 70s, the city has managed to not only hold onto but also increase its sense of civic pride: all around the foundation of sports. That is, for the large part, a REMARKABLE and largely positive thing - especially as it's in the dead center of the decaying Rust Belt, and has lost a tremendous amount of human capital/talent with an increasingly greying population (many forget that Allegheny County has one of the largest populations of seniors in the nation, with PA having the most overall after Florida). And yet it also gives the town an unbalanced, one-dimensional feeling: that sports are all that matter.

Pgh'ers perhaps unconsciously know that their city isn't going to be known for other aspects, this is why I think they stubbornly build and hold their identity around their teams. It prevents feelings of inadequacy to appear. To be honest, I kind of disagree when people stress that Pgh has an abundance of "great" characteristics that are "unique" for a city its size - I believe they're decent but not extraordinary in any field. They're not enough to make Pgh a center in any of these other things, or to really get it noticed. Cincinnati just for example, still has even larger amounts of great pre-modern architecture in its historic core/downtown. But it is still struggling, and as a Rust Belt city, it has a long way to go to catch up to where Pgh is today. What got Pgh on its feet again were the excellent universities and medical industry - UPMC, etc - with the resolution to clean up the post-industrial remnants, to such an extent that now it is the economic leader in the Rust Belt region. But this does not translate to any neglected cultural richness, not at all.

A city's "culture" is defined and created by its people, and retaining its heritage as a defiantly "blue collar" town, Pgh champions its teams over any other aspects of local "culture" to start with. This is why, I'd argue, instead of others and outsiders having an "unfair" or incomplete picture of Pgh, the city has done this to itself. I'd say the outside perception of Pgh is, by most accounts, pretty accurate (except for those still influenced by stereotypes from a century ago who think of it as polluted) - it is neither over nor underrated. I'd find fault instead with the inhabitants, who have purposely overemphasized one aspect of its identity to the detriment of others. And yet...this is the important thing... this was done WILLINGLY. For the very simple reason that we should trumpet our victories in whatever aspect of life they occur: because it feels GOOD to WIN. The majority of the people do not see things the way we're discussing them here. They think the Stillers ARE the best thing about da Burgh - along with the Pirates, the Penguins, and the Panthers - and that's it.

You have to remember, before advocating any societal change, who you are and what you're asking for. We're in the extreme minority here - "urbanity nerds" or whatever you want to call it, and the extreme vast majority of Pittsburghers do not share interests beyond sports. It may be depressing, but that's just how culture works - it is a self-created, organic thing, and you can no more change Pittsburghers identification with their sports teams as you could (talking in stereotypes) change Ashevillians' attitudes towards liberal poltics, or Portlanders' environmentalism. It is essentialist, it is inherent, and it is deep. It's like Ancient Sparta and its militarism - it's the stuff of legends and victory. "City of CHAMPIONS," - just think how powerful that phrase is...

That's why I said it - yinzerism is never going to change. It's what makes Pittsburghers who they are. Same with Steelerism, and that "tradition of winning." Which is also something taught by fathers, brothers (and mothers!) over generations, the origin of that "I bleed black & gold," mentality. The small amount of culture there is is mostly met with indifference, I'm sorry. Do you think there are ever going to be even a fraction of people from Pgh who would want the city to be known by the Frick House, or who go to other cities and champion the Aviary? How many people have even been to the fucking Aviary - and yes, it's a shame since it's great.

But it's not the point, and never will be. Neither is the annual Folk Festival, the Carnegie Museum, the Mexican War Streets or the goddamned incline - these are all wonderful things, but you can get the analogous things in other cities (even in cities Pgh wants to hate and feel superior to, such as Cleveland). What you can't get in other cities is the legacy of Myron Cope's ridiculous accent, or Mean Joe Green. What you can't get in other cities is the very thrilling prospect of 6 super bowl rings, or hearing "it's a hockey night in Pittsburgh" said in that particular accent, in that particular way, on the radio...

What you can't get in other cities are the memories of Andy Van Slyke hitting that double in the August of 1991 that won that game, when you were a kid with your face stuffed with nachos as you looked out at the sea black and gold all around you at Three Rivers Stadium and you felt like you were one with the crowd. I know people with memories like that - hell perhaps I have them too, somewhere distant - and I know people who even rearrange and mark their mental memories of years: "oh '91? yeah that was when the Bucs went to the playoffs!" etc solely on the basis of the sports events of those years. You are not going to change that, I'm afraid...

That's what makes Pittsburgh fuckin' Pittsburgh, my friends

Vangelist

Jan 28, 2009, 8:34 AM

>Except, you know, the other big metro in it's own state.

You're not getting it :)

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 8:43 AM

^^ This is precisely why I titled the thread "Is Steelerism a good or bad thing for Pittsburgh?"

I agree, as I said before, with many of your points and am glad you are able to understand the context of the original question. I realize that the culture is present, has been for a long time, and I for one, am not going to change it. I specifically stated a few times previously that outsiders' perceptions are valid and that the overemphasis on the Steelers over everything else has been a detriment... that is the reason for this thread.

DBR96A

Jan 28, 2009, 9:06 AM

Is "Bulldogism" holding Athens, GA back? I'm just wondering because the atmosphere in Athens on football Saturdays is very similar to the atmosphere in Pittsburgh on football Sundays. I actually consider "Steelerism" to be a blessing, especially now that the Steelers could be on the verge of doing something that no other team in the NFL has done -- winning a sixth Super Bowl. If this were the New York Giants or New England Patriots with six Super Bowl titles, then you bet your ass that the sports media in this country would celebrate the hell out of it, as would the fans in each city -- particularly Boston. Speaking of Boston, there are plenty of sports fans there who live for the Patriots and Red Sox, yet nobody criticizes them. In fact, a few years ago, everybody wanted to be them. The only difference between Pittsburgh and Boston is that Boston's culture is celebrated nationally, while Pittsburgh's is derided nationally.

As for "yinzerism," it doesn't have to go hand-in-hand with Steelerism. Yinzers are a dying breed. Steeler fans are not. (In fact, I know somebody who recently moved from Georgia to Pennsylvania who has since become a Steeler fan himself.) With the increase in high-paying science, engineering, education, health care and research-and-development jobs in Pittsburgh, the cultural stranglehold that yinzers had on the city through the '80s and '90s has begun to lose its grip in the last 10 years. Once the median age in the region begins to decrease in the coming years, that should further diminish the yinzer influence in the region.

Vangelist

Jan 28, 2009, 10:36 AM

> The only difference between Pittsburgh and Boston is that Boston's culture is celebrated nationally, while Pittsburgh's is derided nationally.

If you can't designate the difference between the civic identities of Boston and Pittsburgh and their respective relationships to their sports teams, then nothing we could say could convince you. I don't know of a large amount of Boston's population in the 70s that thought their teams were the best thing going for the city, where they were so relied upon for the city's very self-esteem, its soul's health and image. Steerlerism is more than just being a "sports fan" - it is, as we've repeatedly said here, more like a religion, with all the irrationality that implies...but honestly, I don't think anyone who hasn't lived a long time in Pgh is going to get this thread.

Otherwise everyone is going to post in here with "my town's sports fans are just as fanatical..." - this whole topic isn't MEANT to compare that, as pj3000 has repeatedly said

> With the increase in high-paying science, engineering, education, health care and research-and-development jobs in Pittsburgh, the cultural stranglehold that yinzers had on the city through the '80s and '90s has begun to lose its grip in the last 10 years.
- where are your statistics to demonstrate this? what increase?

>Once the median age in the region begins to decrease in the coming years,

and in what sci-fi novel is this happenening? and i don't even know if i'd want to see "the yinzer influence" eliminated in the first place if it was even an option

LucasS6

Jan 28, 2009, 12:58 PM

look at a map for some clarification...and no, the chiefs don't come to mind for me...especially if you know anything about the mob and the history of las vegas ya babbo!

Quick question: Why, in your mind, did I put a laughing smilie face after "other than that it's located in Kansas"?

PittPenn 03

Jan 28, 2009, 2:13 PM

I am not a football fan at all, couldn't name more than a handful of Steelers names, watched one game all year and only because it was on at my SO's parents house. I however love the pride that swells with Steeler Nation - absoultely love it! I get what you are saying, but I think you are completely wrong. I hear your complaints here and there, particularly among the set who have lived elsewhere and return to the East End -usually out of the academic elite. I think there is a failure to see the big picture though in that Steeler fanaticism has helped hold our region together in what makes Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh. Helping keep alive many local traditions, bars, companies that make regional products, and perhaps even as far as helping our neighborhoods and suburbs of worth maintain their character and in some cases their population. What tie would bind us together otherwise? Why hasn't our city, particularly of our size and misfortunes become as generic as most other cities have in this country? IMO it is not the transient nature of the education and tech industries and their employees, and while they have helped keep our economy going and have allowed a certain maintainence of the region in different ways, a lot of cities have these aspects going for them even in some of the most boring metros in the country. The natural beauty and architecture is generally not at all acknowledged by locals or newcomers. The weather?! I just do not see anything that compares to glue the love of the Steelers provide. I am sure football Sundays, playoff dates, and now the Superbowl has been a bonanza to companies who make products or goods that are regional. From Iron City Beer to the Steeler cakes at local long time bakeries, the specific hoagies and pizzas that people want, to the Isaly's chip-chopped ham and whatever Steeler Nation buys during the season is what largely has kept us from being another Walmart/Domino's/Wonder Bread/just like any other mid-sized city - city. As much as I love Pittsburgh and think it is the most interesting place to live in the country, and think it offers everything that has been talked about and so much more. Without the Steelers however, we would have slipped into higher level of obscurity decades ago, with even less reason for people who do not see the other great things Pittsburgh has to stick around. In otherwords, the Steelers and Steeler Nation IMO is what has largly allowed Pittsburgh to maintain its sense of place.

Okay,I could go on and on in this incoherent ramble, but if for nothing else, look at the thousands of people who have been coming to town for the last few weeks for playoff games booking hotels, eating at our restaurants, shopping, drinking. We have had tens of millions of dollars pumped into our economy during a bleak time even in prosperous times. January weekends with all downtown and surrounding areas with hotel rooms booked solid is not something to scoff at and while out economy has held up pretty well during this recession, this weekend and the last three probably has given many businesses some much needed breathing room. All the free publicity the city will get, the people who have moved away getting homesick enough to want to move back, the list goes on and on. Again, I understand what you are saying as someone who doesn't like football and doesn't necessarily understand how people become so obsessed with sports teams, but I don't question it and enjoy the happy times with everyone else.

JackStraw

Jan 28, 2009, 2:23 PM

This thread is going down the shit hole as people way over analyze the hell out of something.

After reading this I discovered that Pittsburgh has a shitty arts scene, its citizens don't support the local arts, and the only thing the yinzers care about are the Steelers, and no young people stay leaving all uneducated slack jawed yokels. (such a typical ignorant bashing of this city) Then I see things like our inclines, architecture, museums, etc are anologous to other cities, but having support for our sports teams isn't. Its the only thing that seperates us.:rolleyes: Our neighborhoods, our museums, and our topography is just as analogous to other cities as rooting for their sports team. Yes other cities have cool rowhome neighborhoods like the MWS, but they are also just as different like Black and Gold is from Blue and White. Yes other cities have Museums, but going to the Warhol just as unique as going to Fenway in Boston, which other cities have museums and ball parks too. Everything is analogous when you try hard. To say Pittsburgh isn't unique is just :koko: .

"Do you think there are ever going to be even a fraction of people from Pgh who would want the city to be known by the Frick House, or who go to other cities and champion the Aviary? How many people have even been to the fucking Aviary - and yes, it's a shame since it's great." The same thing can be said about people in Philly. What fraction care more about their Art museums over the Eagles? Probably the same percentage as in Pittsburgh, Denver, Cleveland, and even N.Y. It isn't a regional thing. The same percentage of people who care more about the sports teams than local art galleries is homogenous nationally. It isn't just in Pittsburgh where those slack jawed yinzers don't know they have the Frick house, and only care about the Steelers. Yup, everybody in Pittsburgh has a Big Ben fat head poster on their wall, but none of us yinzers have replicas of Dali, Picasso, or other art in our homes. The same percentage of people who saw "Life on Mars" in the Carnegies in Pittsburgh is probably just the same as the same percentage that saw it in other cities.

I agree with DBR, in that there are people in Boston that are just as fanatical about the Redsocks as people in Pittsburgh are about the Steelers. Being fanatical about a team isn't hurting the city. Also, I noticed DBR's post about the median age being decreased as a "sci-fi novel". However, census statistics has shown Pittsburgh's average age has lowered, and the "greyhaird burgh" is dying out. Also, Engineering, research, healthcare, and education is and has been (before the recession) on the rise in Pittsburgh. I am working on Westinghouse's new headquarters, and they are hiring left and right. If you have a engineering degree send me your resume and you will have a job in this recession in five minutes. :) As I said way back, it is the fact that we don't have as many transplants, and most of the population has been set here for years that keep this Steeler fanaticism.

Do the locals need to support somthing more than just the Steelers? Hell, yes. But I do disagree that all Pittsburgher's care about is the Steelers. I have many friends who root for the Steelers, but spend the other 6 days out of the week going to shows, talking philosophy, keeping up on the local art galleries at the museums, and are very educated. I don't know who you guys must of hung around when living here, but try to step up with hanging out with more educated and diverse people.

When the summer time comes, the snow is gone, go downtown to the Arts fest. Talk to the people down there seeing shows, and art galleries. I bet you won't hear a word about the steelers. Maybe check out the Shadyside arts fest, go to the Beehive and talk to those urban hipsters. I bet none of them will mention the Steelers. GO the the Carnegies this weekend. Hell, go on Sunday before the big game. People will probably have Steeler shirts on, but the focus will be on art and science.

There are many Pittsburgher's that take advantage of this city's cultural aspects, and many exist. I do agree though, that I wish a larger percentage of people would do this. Companies should have a Carnegie Science center day for their workers and kids, instead of a Pirates day at PNC park, and do thing such as that. However, I feel that having a city behind its succesful football team is not hurting the city. Just like having Boston behind the Redsocks. (Redsocks fans are more annoying than Steeler fans). What needs to change is the perception of Pittsburgh from people in other towns. To do this you need to have people travel to your region. Like I said up above (which everything I say on this forum is always ignored). Things will change over generations. As my Nephews generation gets older, they probably would never relate Smoke and Steel with Pittsburgh, but they probably will still relate the Steelers. However, most midsize cities are only related to by their sports teams by outsiders. PJ mentioned K.C. above with its boulvards and jazz. However, would you really relate that if you never been there before? If not, it would probably be just the Chiefs. As people travel and visit cities their associations change. This will change over time.

Oh yeah, PJ welcome back to the Burgh. Are you living in the S Hill?

biscuit

Jan 28, 2009, 4:18 PM

While a disagree with a lot of his/her assertions about the culture and life in the city, I do agree with Vangelist that Steelers football is like a fundamentalist religion in Pittsburgh. I am a lifetime football fan, but as a transplant and lifelong football fan, I will not claim any special insight into the greater Pittsburgh sports psyche. That said, in the past I have compared moving here to being raised as a Presbyterian but then being adopted into a family of very pious evangelical fundamentalist Baptists. You love your new family, but you sometimes don't understand why everything in their life seems to revolve around their church.

On a more secular note, according to the Post Gazette there are a lot of people in Pittsburgh who don't like Steelerism, especially when it pre-empts their prime time programming. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09023/943808-67.stm

Burgh15

Jan 28, 2009, 4:38 PM

I think it is a very good thing. Not only do the Steelers represent the City of Pittsburgh very well (as many other professional sports teams do), it also gives a sense of connection to the city. You can travel all over the country and even the world and find someone who has that connection to Pittsburgh, even if they never lived there. Where this comes into play is now you have a ton of people coming back to the city for a home game or just to come back to watch the Super Bowl or even for the draft. If it weren't for the Steelers and what they do for the city, these people would never be coming back to Pittsburgh. What is nice as well is that they aren't just coming back for a game. They come to see Pittsburgh and what it is all about. They want to take in the major sights, check out the museums, eat at some of the more popular restaurants. It is the connection with the Steelers and therefore the city that they have this reason to visit.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 5:30 PM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 5:39 PM

Oh yeah, PJ welcome back to the Burgh. Are you living in the S Hill?

Good points in the above post. And yes, living back in Sq. Hill in a UPMC apartment until I find a place of my own. Not sure where to live yet and have been lazy about looking for a house/apt.

Rilestone75

Jan 28, 2009, 5:49 PM

I think the threadstarter's point is that Pittsburgh needs to find a way to define myself in more ways than just as the hometown of the Steelers. He seems to be implying that overzealous "Steelerism" is somehow stifling the city's ability to diversify its image in the eyes of not only its own residents, but outsiders.

I've never been to Pittsburgh, so have no opinion but to say that the Steelers are the first (and pretty much only) thing that comes to mind when somebody mentions Pittsburgh.

It is hard to do for cities in which their professional sports teams are named after the predominate social/economic make up of the city. There is a very good reason that the Steelers are named the "Steelers". Much the same as the old Houston "Oilers" or "49ers".

DeBaliviere

Jan 28, 2009, 6:57 PM

These descriptions of Pittsburgh and Steeler Nation sound shockingly similar to St. Louis and Cardinal Nation.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 9:24 PM

Anyone see today's Pittsburgh City Paper wth the article titled "Breaking Steelers Fever - Could our attitude toward football be getting... healthier?"

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 9:29 PM

These descriptions of Pittsburgh and Steeler Nation sound shockingly similar to St. Louis and Cardinal Nation.

I hope not. Because if people from St. Louis act in the same way for BASEBALL, then that is beyond embarrassing.

AaronPGH

Jan 28, 2009, 9:34 PM

Vangelist, we must not be hanging out with the same group of Pittsburgh residents, because I really am very rarely finding myself around uneducated "yinzer" steelers nation fans anymore.

I am lucky to have a large group of friends, most of which care just as much about the arts scene, music events, museums, technology, Pittsburgh development news, etc.... Now maybe this is not the norm, but there's also a chance you just aren't getting out there and meeting people enough....writing everyone off in Pittsburgh as some yinzer piece of trash that only cares about football (you may not be, but that's the tone I'm getting from your posts).

I very much find the opposite to be true more and more. I'm not disagreeing, just saying that my experiences have been completely different so far. At least in the past two years.

How long have you been here? Are you a recent transplant by chance?

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 9:43 PM

^ I believe Vangelist said that he/she has lived in Pittsburgh before and still has some family/friends here.

AaronPGH

Jan 28, 2009, 9:52 PM

^ I believe Vangelist said that he/she has lived in Pittsburgh before and still has some family/friends here.

Well then that sort of makes sense. I have to be honest. I've only been living here for about 5-6 years now, and it's only the past two or three years that my tune has changed. I've noticed a large shift in attitudes and people quality very quickly. It could also just be my perception. Who knows. I certainly don't have ANY trouble finding crowds of people who are firmly planted into the arts scene.

As for Steelerism hurting Pittsburgh, here's some food for thought: when I moved here for school I didn't like the city at all. I swore I would be gone immediately upon graduating. I didn't give a shit about the Steelers or football in general. In 2005 when we went to the Super Bowl, the city came alive with energy and people. It was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen - and I became an instant Steelers fan. "Steelerism" actually helped me fall in love with the place and decide to stick around rather than move out.

So was that a good, or a bad thing for Pittsburgh?

AaronPGH

Jan 28, 2009, 10:00 PM

One more thing. The massive increase in positive energy/attitude that I've noticed citywide since the 2005 Super Bowl...I believe that it's stuck with the city ever since then regardless of us winning or losing. It may have (crazy as it seems) been the match on the gasoline for us. A bright spot in a sea of pretty bad economic news around then - such as the US Airways hub closure - that gave Pittsburgh enough motivation to get up and be proud of an "accomplishment". I don't think that anyone should downplay the effect something like that can happen.

The seeds of a strong local economy were already being sown, but this certainly didn't hurt anything.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 10:40 PM

In 2005 when we went to the Super Bowl, the city came alive with energy and people. It was one of the coolest things I'd ever seen - and I became an instant Steelers fan. "Steelerism" actually helped me fall in love with the place and decide to stick around rather than move out.

So was that a good, or a bad thing for Pittsburgh?

That is not Steelerism, that is civic excitement for the home team. The two are very different and I think in any number of posts by myself, Vangelist, Evergrey, and others have made that clear.

Austinlee

Jan 28, 2009, 10:51 PM

I think people cling to sports team successes when they don't have any other accomplishments to be proud of. Steelerism from the 70s/80s came at a time of the steel industry collapsing. Coincidence? I think not.

I think overall, steelerism reinforces the old image of Pittsburgh which is a bad thing. But what are you gonna do. What would be a better name? The Pittsburgh Roboticists or the Pittsburgh Nuclear Scientists, or the Pittsburgh Venture Capitalists? (All industries doing quite well in Pittsburgh right now)
While being more accurate none of those names have the same ring to them.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 10:53 PM

^ I don't wanna change the name - no way! Just want to change a small percentage of what seems to be an almost overwhelming and often detrimental mindset.

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 11:01 PM

I can't stand him, but the guy who is quoted in today's City Paper editorial related to this very topic makes a good point.

"In some ways, the sports mania in these towns is a substitute for genuine economic achievement. Sure the middle class is disappearing. But, hey, how 'bout them Steelers? Football triumphalism is a kind of civic cocaine, creating a sense of accomplishment where the reality is otherwise."

Austinlee

Jan 28, 2009, 11:06 PM

^ I don't wanna change the name - no way! Just want to change a small percentage of what seems to be an almost overwhelming and often detrimental mindset.

I know this thread isn't about changing the name, but I do think the name has alot to do with it. The name Steelers reinforces a mental image of "hell with the lid off". The exact perception that Pittsburgh boosters are trying to overcome is also by far our most well known 'brand'.

Austinlee

Jan 28, 2009, 11:07 PM

pj3000

Jan 28, 2009, 11:50 PM

I know this thread isn't about changing the name, but I do think the name has alot to do with it. The name Steelers reinforces a mental image of "hell with the lid off". The exact perception that Pittsburgh boosters are trying to overcome is also by far our most well known 'brand'.

I know what you're saying and I agree. I, however, am not overly concerned with outsiders' independent mental images/perceptions of Pittsburgh. What I am interested in is the mindset here that for over 3 decades has allowed Pittsburgh to be defined very narrowly by the rest of the country. Pittsburgh does itself no favor by continuing to define itself solely as the home of the Steelers to the rest of the nation. Do Pittsburgher's do it on purpose? Probably not, and that is part of the problem. But that, without question, is our dominant (and sadly, only) face to everybody else anymore.

Steelers Nation does not mean great, supportive fans to the rest of the nation, it means more an army of fat, middle-aged clowns dressed in multiple articles of black and gold year-round who have absolutely nothing else to live for because their damn shithole of a city sucks so bad. Many don't like that characterization of a Steelers fan, but as a stereotype it is absolutely true. That's the problem with stereotypes, especially when your city contiues to (agressively) play into them. And that's the problem with "Steelerism"... because nothing else really matters, right?

JackStraw

Jan 28, 2009, 11:52 PM

I heard on NPR weeks ago that people follow sports much more heavy during recessions. Which also relates to the Steelers in the 70s and the 80s for Pittsburgh.

I just thought of one thing that is over "Steelerism" that came to mind not long ago. I remember going to see Obama speak back in very early November before the elections, and Dan Rooney came out to introduce him, and gave him a terrible towel. There were people at a political rally also with freakin terrible towels. At a freakin Obama Rally! I remember thinking how lame it was.

Actions like that are just not called for. I mean, keep it just for Steeler games, not Obama Rallys.

AOPceZrQtZY

I also remember seeing a youtube video where Pearl Jam played in Pittsburgh and the fans were doing the Steeler chant. However, I think that one was OK because it wsa right after we beat the Seahawks and Eddie said something about it since they are from seattle. However, if the fans started it, than it is also just lame.

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 12:01 AM

^Ahhh, the terrible towel at a completely inappropriate time... classy as always Pittsburgh. :) That it has become a true symbol of Pittsburgh (the type of token you give to presidential candidates and visiting luminaries) is embarrassing.

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 12:08 AM

I also remember seeing a youtube video where Pearl Jam played in Pittsburgh and the fans were doing the Steeler chant. However, I think that one was OK because it wsa right after we beat the Seahawks and Eddie said something about it since they are from seattle. However, if the fans started it, than it is also just lame.

I actually was at a wedding where after the bride and groom said their vows and they kissed, the "Here We Go Steelers" chant started on the groom's side. As if that wasn't classy enough... the wedding was in the bride's hometown of Oklahoma City.

Austinlee

Jan 29, 2009, 12:12 AM

^Ahhh, the terrible towel at a completely inappropriate time... classy as always Pittsburgh. :)

Well, in their defense Obama is a Steelers fan:

SmiZs2stDRQ

JackStraw

Jan 29, 2009, 12:25 AM

I actually was at a wedding where after the bride and groom said their vows and they kissed, the "Here We Go Steelers" chant started on the groom's side. As if that wasn't classy enough... the wedding was in the bride's hometown of Oklahoma City.

:haha: even if the groom was a player for the Steelers a day before playing in the Super Bowl it is still lame.

I am sure though if other cities had a team as successful as the Steelers than they would also suffer with Steelerism. I mean we could be the Browns fan stereotype of a fat middle aged man, with nothing to live for at all. :haha:

Like I said, it is going to take time for the full effects of the Steel Collapse to ware off. As the economy becomes more diverse, and more educated transplants come in, and the Steelers (God forbid) go through a time without actual going to the playoffs then it will calm down.

Vangelist

Jan 29, 2009, 4:33 AM

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 4:42 AM

^ The Oakland Beehive was awesome. The Forbes corridor in Oakland used to be awesome when I would visit friends who went to Pitt... now a "cleaned-up" stretch of chain restaurants and stores, primarily.

The editorial was in today's (coincidence, or do I posess psychic powers?) City Paper. It wasn't online yet, but I'll post it when it is.

Brandon716

Jan 29, 2009, 5:02 AM

AaronPGH

Jan 29, 2009, 5:06 AM

AaronClark, I lived there for over a decade and my dad has lived in Pittsburgh probably longer than you've been alive - for 34 and a half years. Since before the first super bowl victory! He is probably going to die there as well...either way, unless you want to really turn this board into a Pittsburghese contest, we shouldn't have to prove our Burgh credentials, I hope.

I am not trying to "out Pittsburghese" anyone here. I am probably one of the least "Pittsburgh" people in this city. I am a transplant. All I am saying is that it is not a gaping black hole devoid of anyone who appreciates arts, music and culture. That is simply not the case. If you think it is, then you need to do a little more exploring. There are two different worlds of people here. Old school yinzers, and the younger generation that seems to be a little more "with it" than the others. I would know, I am a promoter pushing some pretty cutting-edge music events on an at least monthly basis. We are getting huge numbers at our events that other rust belt cities only dream of. There is something going on here now that wasn't when I first moved here about five or six years ago, whether you want to believe it or not. If it wasn't I would have left a long time ago like my plans called for originally.

I understand and agree with your definition of "Steelerism"...but that "Steelerism" doesn't seem to overpower or drown out the rest of what Pittsburgh has to offer in the daily lives of me or my friends.

What it looks like on the outside, I don't know - I don't live outside. You seem to have figured us all out from afar though based on old memories of living here and talking to your dad though, haven't you? I'm sure you and your dad have your fingers on the pulse of Pittsburgh's arts and music community (and the direction it's all heading in), so I should probably shut my mouth, right?

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 5:08 AM

Make all the yinzer claim you want, there was no yinzer in the crowd I observed.

That's pretty much an aspect of the issue we're discussing - it is ubiquitous, for better or worse.

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 5:18 AM

There is something going on here now that wasn't when I first moved here about five or six years ago...

I really think so too. Though I lived in NYC from 2000-2008, I was in Pittsburgh at least two times a month during that span. And I can confidently say that even within the past two years, I've noticed some positive changes in the city... like the place is finally, finally realizing its potential and taking steps in that direction.

That's why I am even concerned about the city's image and largely why I brought this topic to discussion.

Vangelist

Jan 29, 2009, 5:33 AM

>>The Forbes corridor in Oakland used to be awesome when I would visit friends who went to Pitt... now a "cleaned-up" stretch of chain restaurants and stores, primarily.

Chain stores...is that den of shadyness, the "O" still there?

>>You seem to have figured us all out from afar though based on old memories of living here and talking to your dad though, haven't you? I'm sure you and your dad have your fingers on the pulse of Pittsburgh's arts and music community (and the direction it's all heading in), so I should probably shut my mouth, right?

Aaron, I'm obviously striking close to home or you wouldn't be responding so personally. I'm sorry you feel this way but I am not trying to offend anyone. You can have your views of the city and what you *think it's becoming,* and I can have mine of what it has been and remains, and they can differ. I see no reason why you're assuming that I'm telling you to "shut your mouth," when I feel the contrary is likely the case, and you'd rather I not voice my personal views of the city - just because they seem too critical to you

AaronPGH

Jan 29, 2009, 5:35 AM

I really think so too. Though I lived in NYC from 2000-2008, I was in Pittsburgh at least two times a month during that span. And I can confidently say that even within the past two years, I've noticed some positive changes in the city... like the place is finally, finally realizing its potential and taking steps in that direction.

This is exactly it. There was a point about three years into living here when everyone that lived here went from badmouthing their city to being obsessed with it. Very rarely do I hear anyone who lives here knock this place anymore for not having what they want. It used to be CONSTANT bashing of ourselves when I first got here. On top of all of that, I'd say 50% of my best friends I've met just this year all are from larger metros and moved here to take jobs. People like them are bringing a fresh attitude that is starting to rub off on the rest of the city IMO. Obviously those are just my own experiences, but they are worth noting I think.

AaronPGH

Jan 29, 2009, 5:40 AM

You can have your views of the city and what you *think it's becoming,* and I can have mine of what it has been and remains, and they can differ.

And I am saying that you don't live here anymore - and you haven't been living here for what I believe to be the couple of years where a large shift has started to happen. Maybe it's time for you to come back and take a little deeper look at things instead of basing your views off of what you know in the past.

I understand what your views are, you've made them perfectly clear. They can differ...yes, but at some point it becomes irresponsible of you to keep reinforcing stereotypes of our city that *MAY* have actually begun to fade out since you left. Just a thought. It is possible for Pittsburgh to change you know.

Vangelist

Jan 29, 2009, 6:15 AM

Actually it is not any more "irresponsible" of me to voice my views than it is of you to voice yours, and I have spent a considerable amount of time in Pgh even in the past few years (and have a lot of friends there) to have the opinions that I do. I have yet to see the "large shift" occur - but if a small one is taking place, I'd be satisfied to acknowledge it. You just seem to be pretty intolerant of views of the city that differ from your own

Vangelist

Jan 29, 2009, 6:23 AM

>>All I can say is that Pittsburgh is the first town I have walked into a gay bar, seen football on every screen, and the gay men screaming for the team.

Utterly fascinating...! I think this incident by itself speaks volumes about what aspects of sports culture are *unique* to Pittsburgh, and how they influence broad-based social interaction across all aspects of society...totally reinforcing my point of dominating socialization to start with

JackStraw

Jan 29, 2009, 1:21 PM

I think it's sad that some people on this thread had to get so defensive about the city - as if I was "trashing" it - and not take the points I was making more objectively as pj3000 did. Reread my posts again; I am actually paying tribute to the sports team while also critiquing their dominance in the culture. We need to be honest about cities we love, just like we are about the people we may love - and not build up Pittsburgh into something it is not. It is not a mini Boston or Philadelphia with numerous salient aspects and dimensions to its character, it will always have more in common with Cleveland and Buffalo. It is a midwestern, blue-collar working-class town at heart. Unless the city has drastically changed since the 90s, I do not think it is what some are calling it here (a center of the arts, etc), and it culturally has definitely not changed. It is a fairly typical medium-cized American city with a GREAT sports tradition, and a LOT of pride in its heritage of championships. That is how it has defined itself, for better and for worse, for the past 40 years.

I'd still like to see some of these statistics on how the population isn't greying. And fwiw, the Beehive on Carson Street does not compare to the older Beehive in Oakland that had a stage...that closed down in 2001, dude. I was in Pgh that summer and remember editorials eulogizing it at the time.

AaronClark, I lived there for over a decade and my dad has lived in Pittsburgh probably longer than you've been alive - for 34 and a half years. Since before the first super bowl victory! He is probably going to die there as well...either way, unless you want to really turn this board into a Pittsburghese contest, we shouldn't have to prove our Burgh credentials, I hope.

>>"In some ways, the sports mania in these towns is a substitute for genuine economic achievement. Sure the middle class is disappearing. But, hey, how 'bout them Steelers? Football triumphalism is a kind of civic cocaine, creating a sense of accomplishment where the reality is otherwise."

Bingo, very articulately put. Do you mind linking to this editorial? Thx

Dude, you payed tribute to the Pirates and Pittsburgh sports, but tore down our arts scene, and said that the city is not unique. I am sorry, but if you can't walk into Pittsburgh and don't see how its architecture, Topography, civil structures (bridges), its neighborhoods, etc, etc are uniquely different from other cities, than I really don't have much more to say. You come in here trying to act like you are Zeus of Urban education, but leave absolutely no insight on how Pittsburgh is a "typical mid size city".

I've been to many cities between Pittsburgh and San Fran. NONE have urban areas like Pittsburgh.(I am not saying that some are similair, but none are "typical") The east coast cities being larger also don't really equal it. You must really have a blind eye when touring the city.

Are we the center of arts? NO. It doesn't take a genius to figure out the a mid-size city isn't going to be a N.Y., Boston, Or a Philly. Do we want to be them? No. But we do want a strong arts, and Pittsburgh does have a strong arts culture.

We are a unique mid-size city that has its own arts and culture. We don't need to be a large central mecca like the large East Coast cities. We realize that.

You make everything sound like it has to be compared to something. Like our arts scene needs to be comparable to N.Y., but it is only comparable to Buffalo, or our urban architecture needs to be comparable to Boston but it is only comparable to Cleveland. When the truth is our arts and culture, and our urban architecture can't be completely compared to any city. Yeah you can take the MWS and say, "they kind of look like Old City in Philly". I have seen the South Side Slopes, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill reproduced over and over again in every city I go to.:rolleyes:

Your coming in here expecting us to be a N.Y. or Boston. Sorry, we know that. We are Pittsburgh, and only Pittsburgh. But to say we don't have unique urban areas, and arts and culture is again :koko:

I am done with this conversation in this thread, as it is going nowhere positive. Not that I have any problems with negative criticism of this city, as I get frustrated with parts of it also. But some of these claims is just getting rediculous.

Brandon716

Jan 29, 2009, 2:11 PM

JackStraw

Jan 29, 2009, 2:28 PM

^agreed. But lets get this thread back onto the main topic of how do we get rid of the annoying Steelerism such as bringing terrible towels to a Obama rally, and chanting "Here we go Steelers". Because that shit is intollerable.

Brandon716

Jan 29, 2009, 3:02 PM

PhillyRising

Jan 29, 2009, 3:07 PM

The only bad things about "Steelerism" are their horrible fight songs. :haha: :yes:

Other than that...I truly understand the passion of Stiller fans. If you been to Picksburgh...you know right away the place is so much more than the Stillers.

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 3:58 PM

Here is the article from the current CP mentioned above related to this topic:

Breaking Steelers Fever

BY CHRIS POTTER (http://www.pittsburghcitypaper.ws/gyrobase/Archive?author=oid%3A14841)

I hope the Steelers aren't as complacent about the Super Bowl as I am.
Don't get me wrong: I'd love the Steelers to be the first team to win a half-dozen Super Bowls. It would cap a foundation built in the 1970s, and allow me to send snarky e-mails to friends in New England.

But while winning Super Bowl XLIII would be great ... it won't bring the same vindication winning Super Bowl XL did. For the first time, I can almost understand what people mean when they say, "It's just a game."
And from what I can tell, I'm not alone.

When the Steelers went up against the Seattle Seahawks in 2006, every fan I know brought years of heartache to the game. "One for the thumb" was one of those catchwords -- like "Skybus," or "Homestead Works" -- whose mocking echo had been ringing for two decades. The 1980s sucked for the Steelers and their city. Then came the abortive 1996 Super Bowl against the Dallas Cowboys -- one more disappointment in a decade whose prosperity seemed to pass us by. "One for the thumb" took on a despairingly dated air, like commercials for the Ford Fairmont -- relics from an age so misbegotten that even its dreams were embarrassing, like polyester pants.

You'd expect this match-up with the Cardinals to revive old existential doubts. Civic leaders here have a fetish for comparing ourselves to other cities, after all. (Before the AFC Championship game, the local tourism bureau sent out a release titled "Pittsburgh vs. Baltimore: How We're Alike." The first entry: Both cities have neighborhoods.) Arizona is the Sun Belt to our Rust Belt, the place where so many former Pittsburghers moved. The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette recently asserted that "Allegheny County sent more residents to Phoenix's Maricopa County than any other in America."

But I see few signs of a broader soul-searching. Maybe we exorcised some of our demons in 2006. Maybe we're tired of the Steelers-fans-that-aren't-here-anymore story line. It can't hurt that national publications like The New York Times have noted that Pittsburgh has (so far) avoided the worst of the economic meltdown. In any case, love for the Steelers no longer seems like a Freudian reaction to doubts about the city.

If anyone seems on the verge of derangement, actually, it's the doubters themselves.

Prominent local conservative Jerry Bowyer, for example, published a Jan. 17 piece in the Wall Street Journal objecting to "sports mania." Bowyer's piece argues that being happy about sports distracts us from serious problems. "Football triumphalism is a kind of civic cocaine," he argues, "creating a sense of accomplishment where the reality is otherwise."

Like Bowyer, I was opposed to building new facilities for the Steelers and Pirates. But let it go, man. You sound like a Seahawks fan still bitching about the refs. Plus, you're the author of the 2003 book The Bush Boom: How a 'Misunderestimated' President Fixed Our Broken Economy. Do you really want to accuse others of "creating a sense of accomplishment where the reality is otherwise"?

Still, I know some progressives who agree with Bowyer that Super Bowl fever "is a substitute for genuine economic achievement. Sure the middle class is disappearing. But, hey, how 'bout them Steelers?" It seems a particularly popular sentiment among those who want Mayor Luke Ravenstahl voted out of office. The concern seems to be that a winning football team fosters complacency, which Ravenstahl shamelessly takes advantage of -- to the point of silly stunts like pretending to change his name to "Steelerstahl."

There's truth to that, of course. But if the Steelers hadn't made the playoffs, I doubt Pittsburghers would be spending their Sundays poring over actuarial tables, trying to come to grips with the city's pension debt. Is obsessing over football "bread and circuses"? Sure. But in an age of satellite TV and Internet porn, the circus is always in town. That's a huge and maybe fatal problem, but it's probably unfair to pin it on a football franchise. Especially when the offensive line already has plenty to answer for.

Anyway, maybe this is the year we hear a little less of the "Here We Go" song -- and find it a little less maddening when it does get played. Maybe this is the year we realize we don't have to live by Steelers football -- and that our city isn't dying from it either.

Of course, if the Steelers lose ... all bets are off.

pj3000

Jan 29, 2009, 7:50 PM

from Burgh Diaspora:

Steelers Diaspora: National Flag (http://burghdiaspora.blogspot.com/2009/01/steelers-diaspora-national-flag.html)

Nationalism is irrational. It inspires great violence. But it can also fuel economic might. The Terrible Towel is an icon of a similar passion (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs2008/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&page=hotread20/garber):

This is the story of how the disparate worlds of the Allegheny Valley School, where communication is often difficult, and the thunderous, full-throated ecstasy of Pittsburgh's fanatics are tied together by a common, 100 percent-cotton thread, the very fabric of Steeler Nation.

"This towel is very, very powerful," said Regis Champ, the president of the school. "The people of Pittsburgh understand what this towel does and they love the Steelers. It's a great combination for us."

The Steelers themselves are acutely aware of the power.

"I think every great nation has a flag," Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu said. "I think the Steeler Nation, it's obvious that that's our flag."

Added Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, "When they wave that towel, it's just something that comes from in their soul and tries to reach out to us players."While the importance of a sports team might seem silly, it also demands respect. The mayor of Phoenix already regrets his attempt to disgrace the Terrible Towel (http://www.wpxi.com/news/18580473/detail.html). Perhaps an aid pointed out to him how many people from Pittsburgh live in his city (http://nullspace2.blogspot.com/2009/01/steelers-nation-factoids.html).

Rallying around a flag can be a destructive force (http://pittsblog.blogspot.com/2009/01/whats-your-dream-season-tickets.html). It can also be used to win a space race or even raise a country out of poverty (http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/09diaspora-must-alleviate-suffering-of-our-population.htm). What is needed is the leadership that provides the Steelers Diaspora with something more to do than cheer for their team.

Austinlee

Jan 29, 2009, 10:06 PM

Obama goes on the record: He's backing Steelers

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2009/01/62114422/1

There's no more doubt: President Obama says he's rooting for the Pittsburgh Steelers in Sunday's Super Bowl.

"I wish the (Arizona) Cardinals the best," the president told reporters at the White House, "but I am a long-time Steelers fan" and a friend of the Rooney family that owns the team.

Long-time Steelers fan? Maybe so long as the Chicago Bears aren't the opposition.

Our earlier post, headlined "No firm word on president's Super Bowl favorite -- but he does like the Rooney family":

Who is President Obama going to root for this Sunday?

As USA TODAY's Nate Davis reports, the Pittsburgh Steelers think the president favors them over the Arizona Cardinals in the Super Bowl.

But spokesman Robert Gibbs wouldn't give a definitive answer just a few minutes ago during his daily briefing with reporters at the White House.

Gibbs did note, though, that Obama has "tremendous affection for the Rooney family" and that the "best breakfast place" Obama went to during last year's campaign was one that Steelers owner Dan Rooney took him to. (That would be Pamela's Diner, where they ate last April.)

The Rooney family campaigned for Obama in Steelers territory last year.

DBR96A

Jan 30, 2009, 4:22 AM

I am currently saving up money to take about a dozen friends of mine on a trip to Pittsburgh and surrounding parts of Pennsylvania. I'm the biggest Steeler fan they've ever met, and yes, I do have plenty of black and gold clothes. With that said, I plan on taking my friends out to eat at places like Primanti Bros., the Grand Concourse, Jimmy Tsang's and Tessaro's, among other places. (For dessert, I'll treat them to Bruster's Ice cream.) I'll take them shopping at Ross Park Mall, The Waterfront and the South Side Works. (They all like American Eagle Outfitters.) Among some of the general tourist destinations, I plan to take them to the Cathedral of Learning (and the Nationality Rooms), Fallingwater, the Flight 93 Memorial, and a Gateway Clipper cruise. A day at Kennywood Park is a must too, as are trips to the scenic overlooks on Mount Washington and over in the West End. Nights will be spent along Carson Street on the South Side. I've thought about taking them to a Pirates game at PNC Park, but maybe I should reconsider that because taking out-of-towners to a sporting event would just make me a backward-thnking yinzer who insists on shoving Pittsburgh's sports culture down everybody's throats. I can't take them to eat at Ditka's either for the same reason. Who cares if the food is good there? I don't want to be overbearing with my "Steelerism" now! :rolleyes:

JackStraw

Jan 30, 2009, 4:31 AM

^dude, WTF? You forgot Kazansky's, Mineos, the Squirell Hill Cafe, 61 C and much more in just Squirell Hill.

I get what you are saying though. We appreciate all these place just as much as the Steelers.

pj3000

Jan 30, 2009, 6:10 AM

I don't want to be overbearing with my "Steelerism" now! :rolleyes:

What you described is not "Steelerism" in its negative sense at all. I see what you are trying to prove with your post, but it's really not relevant to what we are talking about. Your post responds to no claims made by myself or the others on here who were able to understand what the topic was about and contribute accordingly, whether they agreed with the initial claim or not.

I figured that this would devolve into ridiculousness, but I thought I'd give it a try since it can be an interesting and timely topic (especially considering how Pittsburgh is currently reinventing itself). It is a topic that is being addressed more and more in Pittsburgh these days in the boardroom (UPMC, from firsthand experience), classroom, in articles, editorials, and blogs, and by regional economic development agencies and branding campaigns. Unfortunately, a number of forumers on here seem to be able to only see the surface of the topic (and as a result, get defensive in one way or another), and not realize that "Steelerism" works as a metaphor in a variety of ways.

Orion1

Jan 30, 2009, 8:27 AM

An honest question for curiosity sake,

In a city such as Portland, are Fridays during basketball season dubbed 'Trailblazer Days', where every business encourages their employees, male and female, to wear their game jerseys and team colors to work? Does this happen in other places too, or are rituals like 'Black and Gold Days' just Pittsburgh things?

Pittsburgh, unlike most American cities, has all of it's professional sports franchises decked out in the same colors as the city flag. The good thing about that is that the colors actually work, unlike here in Philly with the blue and yellow/gold which we borrowed from the Swedish flag which would not work at all

Evergrey

Jan 31, 2009, 3:46 AM

interesting article on perhaps the "positive" side of Steelerism from the AP :shrug:

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/news/state/pennsylvania/38616657.html

1: Move to Pittsburgh; 2: Become a Steelers fan

DAN NEPHIN

The Associated Press

PITTSBURGH - Tony Infanti didn't grow up a sports fan in New Jersey even though his father faithfully watched the New York Giants every Sunday during football season. He never got it. How could a 60-minute game last three hours?

But one decision changed everything: Infanti moved to Pittsburgh.

It's a common story in this town that so identifies with football. Natives may have an innate passion, but newcomers , even those with no connection to football , often find themselves swept up in Steelermania. Those new converts plan to don their black and gold on Sunday and cheer on the Pittsburgh Steelers as they play the Arizona Cardinals in Super Bowl XLIII in Tampa.

"It's so around you all the time. I mean, I'd come to school to teach on a Monday and if they were playing a Monday night game, half the students would show up with Steelers gear on. Staff, too," said Infanti, 40, a law professor at the University of Pittsburgh. "You just can't escape it. It seems like everybody in the whole city is a fan."

Psychologists who study sports aren't surprised and see fan association as a good thing.

"We're social creatures. When you go into a new area, you're naturally going to be seeking out a connection," said Daniel Wann, a psychology professor at Murray State University in Kentucky who has studied sports fans for two decades and is the author of "Sport Fans: The Psychology and Social Impact of Spectators."

For Infanti, it started with watching a game here and there. Soon, when he and his partner found themselves driving on a Sunday, whoever wasn't driving would monitor the game on an iPhone if they couldn't get it on the radio.

Infanti's transformation into a sports fan surprised many, including his sister.

"She's like, 'Who are you and what did you do with my brother?'" he said.

Maymon Peer moved to Pittsburgh about a year ago from Israel, where soccer and basketball are popular. But his son, Alon, 10, began making friends with classmates.

Steelers fans, naturally.

Alon first watched a game with a friend, who explained how football is played.

"That's how I started watching football and liking it," said Alon, who said being a fan helped him make friends in his new home. Sunday, he plans to watch the Super Bowl with a couple of friends, their families and his parents.

"We're going to bring Terrible Towels and scarves," he said.

"In the beginning you just hear about it," said his father, the Jewish Agency's Israeli liaison to Pittsburgh. "Then you try to understand, so it's, 'Let's see one game.' Then, you want to learn the rules. Then you start knowing names of the players. Every time you have one step more."

By the time the Steelers played the Baltimore Ravens in the AFC Championship game two weeks ago, Peer was so into football he held a party and invited over about 10 people in full Steelers gear.

"It's very difficult to live in Pittsburgh to know people, to become involved without getting involved with the craziness about the team. Everyone is speaking about it Monday morning, it's on TV about the team," he said.

Rick Grieve, a professor of psychology at Western Kentucky University who researches sports fans, said being a fan offers a way for people to find new friendships or maintain existing ones.

"We want to belong and probably one of the easiest ways to belong to a new community is to identify with the local sports team," Grieve said.

Studies have shown that sports fans are less lonely and have higher self-esteem, Wann said.

"Think about it: If you're walking down the street in Pittsburgh today, it's hard to be lonely if you're wearing your Steelers jersey," he said.

As for whether there's anything unique about Pittsburgh's ability to transform the disinterested into fans, Wann and Merrill Melnick, a sports sociologist at the State University of New York at Brockport who teaches a course on fandom, cited the Steelers' successful history and the bandwagon effect.

The Steelers are tied with the San Francisco 49ers and Dallas Cowboys with the most Super Bowl wins at five each and have a chance Sunday to win an unprecedented sixth championship.

"Here's a chance to identify with a potential Super Bowl champion," Melnick said. "Here's a chance in just a couple days to live for the ultimate satisfaction ... This is a team that's about to make history."