[Takeo]

From: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1105507.html

An interchange of ideas
Council to begin public process needed to tear down overpass
By Our Staff
Mon. Feb 9 - 5:45 AM
Halifax’s Cogswell Street interchange could soon be a thing of the past.

City hall is moving on a decades-old promise to tear down the overpass, which abruptly stops at the Morse’s Tea Building on Upper Water Street.

In 1968, it was slated to be the beginning bridge ramp for the peninsula’s six-lane shoreline freeway, called Harbour Drive.

Public opposition put a stop to the highway but not before 134 downtown buildings were razed to make room for the Cogswell overpass.

Now its demise signals a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Halifax, Mayor Peter Kelly said Sunday

"These opportunities don’t come your way very often because this is basically the end of large acreage in the downtown," he said in an interview Sunday.

"So that’s why it’s key that we take the time to look, think and respond according to what we hear from the public."

Regional council will mull over a proposal call for a Cogswell Interchange master plan when it meets Tuesday.

Such consultation is necessary, Mr. Kelly says, because it will help form the long-term strategy for dealing with the eventual destruction of the overpass.

He also said a few developers have approached city hall with an interest in developing the land over the years.

"And each time we said, ‘No, we’ll wait until go through the process and then we’ll go for a proposal call.’ "

To ensure that the process is open and transparent, the city wants to get public feedback before proceeding with anything.

The dates for the public consultation sessions will likely be set Tuesday at council’s regular weekly meeting.

And with prime real estate at the ready, the opportunities are endless, Mr. Kelly said of the 6.5 hectares.

"Whether it’s a Metro Centre II or an office/hotel, performing arts centre, the list can go on and on and on," Mr. Kelly said.

The city might be eying some of the money earmarked for infrastructure projects in January’s federal budget.

"If they brought the dollars forward and they were open to having us help remove and reconfigure that interchange and the road network, it would be an advantage for HRM."

He said the interchange could be taken down and the road realigned "easily" before the end of his third term, which ends in 2012.

"And, depending upon market conditions, we could then begin the process of expression of interest."

Colin Whitcomb of the Hardman Group says the timing of council’s request for a master plan is unusual.

Just last week, he learned that his company’s proposal for the city’s new convention centre — on that site — had been rejected in favour of the former Chronicle Herald building site on Argyle Street.

"It’s completely weird," he said Sunday evening.

"We were just told that HRM doesn’t want to consider the area for a convention centre. And that was about it."

How they knew that a convention centre was not needed there — in advance of the public consultation — is puzzling, he says.

"Maybe they should have started this sort of a process last fall," he said, when the company first answered the province and city’s joint call for a new large convention centre site.

"And then we would have had community consultation on whether a convention centre works at the interchange."

Dismissing a plan to build a new centre at the Cogswell exchange — which would take up about half of the available developable land — is "premature," he says.

"Why not make the decision once there’s more information on the table? Leave the door open and wait and see."

( newsroom@herald.ca)

[sdm]

this city is at times....

[Keith P.]

Hey, they can tear it down and then have a bunch of parking lots for, what, maybe 5 - 10 years?

Why do we need yet another consultation on something like this? When did the public suddenly become urban planners? It would be good to have a proposal for them to comment on as a starting point. Otherwise, I can hear it now: "Make it a park...". :yuck:

[Takeo]

Well... there are going to be 6.5 hectares... having some green space in there wouldn't be a bad idea. Much of the lands reclaimed by the big dig were turned into urban green space and the result is simple awesome. My main concern is that they restore the street grid and don't turn it into a bunch of "superblocks"... essentially replacing one monolith with another.

As for the public being urban planners... I don't get that. When there is no consultation (i.e. the new convention center)... people here freak out... and when there IS public consultation... the complaint is that the public are not designers. Huh? Sometimes I wonder if people just like to complain. And public consultation is just that... consultation. They're not designing the thing... just giving their input. Speaking as a designer myself... the more input you can get from the more different sources you can find... the better. Doesn't mean you have to accept it all.

p.s. I agree that it would be good to have a few starting points.

[sdm]

Well... there are going to be 6.5 hectares... having some green space in there wouldn't be a bad idea. Much of the lands reclaimed by the big dig were turned into urban green space and the result is simple awesome. My main concern is that they restore the street grid and don't turn it into a bunch of "superblocks"... essentially replacing one monolith with another.

As for the public being urban planners... I don't get that. When there is no consultation (i.e. the new convention center)... people here freak out... and when there IS public consultation... the complaint is that the public are not designers. Huh? Sometimes I wonder if people just like to complain. And public consultation is just that... consultation. They're not designing the thing... just giving their input. Speaking as a designer myself... the more input you can get from the more different sources you can find... the better. Doesn't mean you have to accept it all.

p.s. I agree that it would be good to have a few starting points.

Too many sources can also have an ill effect on the outcome as well.....

They have done studies on this before. Besides, i question if it will actually provide 6.5 hectares of land. I suspect it will be less. I believe there i will be people looking to purchase the land, but doubtful it will be developed anytime soon.

Metro centre II? So what happens with the original Metro centre, and then of course former trade centre? Seems we will have a lot of useless structures downtown. They should stick to a plan, expand the convention centre into the metro centre and build a new metro centre II. Best of both worlds......
Finally what really bugs me is the city goes and places a dam sewage treatment plant right in this area. Are they planning on moving this?

[Takeo]

Oh... I FULLY agree. I think the planning should be left in the hand of a select few experts in architecture, urban design and planning. For sure. But public consultation is a valuable and important aspect (essential really) of any project of this size.

Anyway... I think this is exciting news. It might still take 10 years... but it's nice to see a little bit of traction anyway. Altho' you have to wonder if the Convention Center project has anything to do with this sudden interest in moving forward. LOL :)

My only wish... as I was saying before... is that they don't put up one massive monolith there... like a Metro Center II. That would be a bad idea. The idea should be to repair the damage that has been done... not to replace it with something equally as damaging.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

Why do we need yet another consultation on something like this? When did the public suddenly become urban planners? It would be good to have a proposal for them to comment on as a starting point. Otherwise, I can hear it now: "Make it a park...". :yuck:

I think consultation is necessary but you are absolutely right there has to be a starting point, some idea or concept.

Park space won't hurt if its well designed and properly sized.

As far as the timing after the convention centre 'decision', yeah it's pretty stunningly bad.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Ugh... It should be the CBD with nice tall towers... incorporate public spaces like that CBC documentary discussed in the Montreal section.

I can hear the park comments coming now... and why are public consultations taken in such high regard here? Most of the public doesn't have a clue about urban design.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Lol, I didn't even read the above posts. It seems many of us understand the heart of the issue in Halifax: constantly going to the public. It not only delays projects but it also consistently derails great proposals because some people don't like them and their voice is louder than others.

Alot of the buildings that were torn down originally for Cogswell weren't worth it. I really wish the so-called journalists around here knew what they were discussing.

[Dmajackson]

Like most people so far I say recreate the street grid but one thing that might be nice to have is a small public park at one of the main intersections.

I holding up my optism on this project so far but I am slightly worried they will build a monolith on the site. IMO the Metro Centre is fine where it is and the Convention Centre is fine on the Herald Lands.

[Phalanx]

Like most people so far I say recreate the street grid but one thing that might be nice to have is a small public park at one of the main intersections.

Reminds me of the Montreal segment in the "Living City" doc. A nicely done, public green space could encourage higher quality developments in the area.

[worldlyhaligonian]

Reminds me of the Montreal segment in the "Living City" doc. A nicely done, public green space could encourage higher quality developments in the area.

Exactly... although the land is valuable, it could be made even moreso.

[Dmajackson]

Reminds me of the Montreal segment in the "Living City" doc. A nicely done, public green space could encourage higher quality developments in the area.

I took a read of the HRM by Design report and unfortunately I can't copy the text but in a nutshell it said for the Cogswell District the high-rise towers will be framed by low rise towers helping the pedestrian sized blocks along with high quality streetscapes and public parks. It also mentions a lot of public art will be placed in the area.

As for public spaces. The Plan shows four in the area. They are all listed as "potnetial plazas" as opposed to "potential courtyards". They are at the Casino (end of boardwalk), Purdy's Wharf, the current foot of Cogswell Street, and where Water Street and Hollis currently intersect (Moore's Tea Building).

[someone123]

The 6.5 hectares sounds like it is the full area of the interchange plus nearby retaining walls and grassed in areas etc. that would no longer be needed. Obviously, when the interchange comes down streets will need to be put in and they will use up a considerable part of the land.

The other limitation is that this is a long site. It's hard to see how even the current Metro Centre would fit on these lands with no roads at all. It could probably be shoehorned in with some tunnels and adjacent land but the idea that the Cogswell interchange will provide some kind of "bonanza" where anything can be built is a huge stretch.

[hfx_chris]

Just regarding the Metro Centre, it's been mentioned here many a time before that the current MC was designed to be expanded at the ends... one suggestion here was to tear down the MC and build the new arena in the same place. Well why not just close the MC and do some extensive renovations for a year or two? Expand the upper bowl seating as originally designed, expand the concourses, or at least expand the east concourse, since the west concourse is kinda limited with Brunswick Street. Hell, there may even be an opportunity to expand the east and west upper bowls, and put in some proper skyboxes, which don't block half of the upper bowl seats. Then just do some major updating to the interior, new seating, new finishes, etc etc.
It would be tight, but if it was designed to be expanded... I don't know why it couldn't be now. And the money saved could be put toward a good medium-sized stadium.

I'm going to copy these remarks to the New Convention Centre thread (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=4076379#post4076379), since I think it makes more sense there...

[BravoZulu]

Just watching the council meeting and they are discussing the removal of cogswell interchange, and several councilors have referred to a development or proposal for that area that can't be discussed on camera. Any one else catch this.....any ideas?

[sdm]

Just watching the council meeting and they are discussing the removal of cogswell interchange, and several councilors have referred to a development or proposal for that area that can't be discussed on camera. Any one else catch this.....any ideas?

It's over the convention centre and that council voted down Hardman's proposal because it conflicted HRM by design. However it seems they might be in itself conflicting HRM by design itself by voting it down.

[Halifax Hillbilly]

It's over the convention centre and that council voted down Hardman's proposal because it conflicted HRM by design. However it seems they might be in itself conflicting HRM by design itself by voting it down.

When did council vote on this? Why do these decisions happen behind closed doors? It is disgusting how often this council goes behind closed doors to make decisions that should be made in the open. Beyond a lack of judgement there is a total lack of integrity with so many decisions our politicians make.

It's infuriating the self-righteous, secretive cacoon half of these idiots believe they are entitled to work within.

[sdm]

When did council vote on this? Why do these decisions happen behind closed doors? It is disgusting how often this council goes behind closed doors to make decisions that should be made in the open. Beyond a lack of judgement there is a total lack of integrity with so many decisions our politicians make.

It's infuriating the self-righteous, secretive cacoon half of these idiots believe they are entitled to work within.

I don't think since we are dealing with a public funded project that they meet behind close doors either.

Nonetheless, i am for the cogswell street redevelopment, but only after the remaining lots downtown are developed. Opening new land will simply accomplish nothing in fixing the problem we currently have (vacant lots).

[Keith P.]

I suspect that the in-camera part was not about voting down the Cogswell convention center proposal, but rather to vote to accept the province's decision to go forward with the Herald site. An argument may have been made that the Cogswell site would violate HRM by design, but that is a non sequitur since it hasn't been presented yet.

The whole discussion was quite ridiculous as always. Blumenthal is an absolute tool... belittling staff for their use of the phrase "north end" and grandstanding as usual. What a useless bunch.

[sdm]

I suspect that the in-camera part was not about voting down the Cogswell convention center proposal, but rather to vote to accept the province's decision to go forward with the Herald site. An argument may have been made that the Cogswell site would violate HRM by design, but that is a non sequitur since it hasn't been presented yet.

The whole discussion was quite ridiculous as always. Blumenthal is an absolute tool... belittling staff for their use of the phrase "north end" and grandstanding as usual. What a useless bunch.

Yeah was surely a show there when this was going on. I mean it will be years before this area would be developed based on a number of factors. I think the money for the study could be better spent on more need items like public transit until the market recovers and the need for more office/ residential space is needed.

[Empire]

The interchange area will still have the same amount of streets. The HRM by design plan shows Barrington, Hollis and Upper Water to run parallel and T-in to Cornwallis. This frees up probably about 2.5 hectares. Council, including Kelly continually refer to 6.5 hectares being ready for development but their lack of knowledge is not surprising. The traffic will be bottlenecked at Cornwallis St. instead of now flowing outbound on Barrington. The long narrow strips of land are ideaL for thin tall towers and pocket parks not WTC's and Metro Centres. The possibilities are not endless as Kelly suggests but very limited due to tight land restrictions. The sewage treatment plant location will no doubt go down as the worst "decision" HRM has made. The STP smells like one so it may be hard to entice developers to built next door. The money spent on tearing down interchange at the MacKay bridge should have been spent on widening Barrington St. from Ocean Towers to the MacKay bridge.

[Phalanx]

Yeah, I've wondered how it's going to work out with the sewage treatment plant right there as well. I remember having to hold my breath every morning on the way to work when we passed it.

Poor planning? Lack of foresight? In Halifax? Shocked! I'm shocked, I tell you!

[someone123]

Kelly is on the record from a few years ago talking about how it makes no difference for the Cogswell lands and will be totally fine.

What kind of city builds a sewage plant in its downtown? I guess most councillors just didn't care because it wasn't in their district. :(

[sdm]

Cogswell interchange will need $500,000 before replacement

By AMY PUGSLEY FRASER City Hall Reporter
Wed. Feb 11 - 5:36 AM


Linda Mosher





The Cogswell Street interchange, an enduring tribute to the city’s abandoned plan to build a harbour-side freeway, is showing its age.

Regional council heard Tuesday night that some money will have to be spent maintaining the 40-year-old downtown overpass before it can be demolished once and for all.

"Staff believe, although the lands are clearly an asset to the municipality, the current infrastructure is a liability and HRM needs to start planning now for future capital replacement," city staffer Jacqueline Hamilton told councillors.

In fact, up to $500,000 needs to be spent on maintenance work in the next six to eight months, she said, although the province will split the cost since it has ownership interests in the land.

The city plans to tear down the interchange to reclaim and redevelop the 6.5 hectares of land. An anchor building and a Metro Transit hub could be part of the area’s new look, she said.

The new landscape would also transform the northern gateway into downtown Halifax and reconnect the north end to the downtown and waterfront neighbourhoods, Ms. Hamilton said.

Council approved tendering out a master plan to outline the scope of the work and plan for reserve funding for the capital costs of the project.

•In other business, councillors approved the examination of snow-clearing standards in upcoming budget debates.

Coun. Linda Mosher (Purcells Cove-Armdale) brought forward the motion to update the standards, established in 1998.

They call for residential streets to be cleared within 24 hours of a storm.

Last week, one of Ms. Mosher’s elderly constituents was taken to hospital by ambulance, but only after paramedics scrambled over snowbanks and down a steep hill with the unconscious patient on a stretcher because plows hadn’t cleared the street.

"This is a serious safety issue; this resident could have died," she said.

Ms. Mosher would like to see plows go down every residential street, even if it’s only to clear one side, within 12 hours.

Council’s budget debates will be held in the spring.

( apugsley@herald.ca)