[coalminecanary]

I meant to post this earlier this weekend, but better late than never. Since Monday is the first day for the new train out of Hamilton, they have begun to use the overnight storage yard. The trains were sitting there all weekend - an awesome sight throughout Corktown.

Full kudos to Bob Bratina for spearheading this initiative. When we first moved to Corktown, he told me "mark my words, if I have my way you'll see go trains parked atop the bridge over our street". It took a couple of years but here we are. I believe he was the biggest proponent for this on council, and as a member of the GO board was able to help make the case for this.

Hopefully with the announced improvements at the high level bridge, this will just be the beginning for GO expansion here.

I know I'm gushing a bit here, and for now it's "only" one new train but the sight of the trains above all of the N-S streets downtown brought a whole new feel to the city for me this weekend:

http://neenerneet.net/images/smalltrain.jpg

[matt602]

That's definitely a cool sight to see. Makes Hamilton really look more connected to the rest of the region.

[highwater]

Don't be afraid to gush. I know what you mean. Too often in this city, new neighbourhood sights are negative - buildings falling down or demolished, graffiti, etc. It lifts your spirits to see a positive sight like this one. Congrats all around.

[Jon Dalton]

I'm with you dude, I was mega excited to look out my window and see those trains.

[emge]

Good timing for me... I may have to commute to Toronto every day for the month of April, and this makes it a lot easier.

[adam]

You can see the "Augusta Lofts" sign in the left side of the photo. Maybe the "Coming soon" part is coming sooner than expected now? The promo ad would look great with the Go Train sitting there.

[astroblaster]

hasn't that project been "coming soon" for quite some time now?

[crhayes]

The past week or so I have been driving down to Mac more often and coming home late (such as tonight, I came home around 1am) and I have noticed the trains parked in the Hunter Go station above John! I was also very pleased to see it! It just looks awesome for sure! :)

[flar]

hasn't that project been "coming soon" for quite some time now?

Coming soon for at least 4 years. Seems to be the case with a lot of things. Maybe "soon" is measured in decades.

[coalminecanary]

The Augusta Lofts are never coming at all. A (nother?) case of a speculator hoodwinking the city into believing he was an actual developer. As far as I know, the owner has built himself a cocoon within the shell of the building and he's actually living there. Presumably there's a small inner room that has heat and insulation. Most of the rest of the building is just open to the elements.

My girlfriend said it should be a market and I totally agree - studios on the second floor with craft stalls on the main floor - a small artisan market. I think it would be great. Its proximity to the tracks might make it a difficult sell for condos...

But back to the tracks, the trains are gone now but I'm really excited to see them again tonight! :)

One thought I has was about GO employees. Presumably, up until this morning, the small army of employees (at least 3 or 4 per train I'm guessing) had to show up for work at the old yard much earlier in the morning (since they had to leave earlier in order to get the train here to fill it up). So now they have to commute to Hamilton in order to perform their old job. It would suck if any of them bought a house near the previous storage yard and their commute went from 0 to 60 overnight!

On the other hand, as more and more GO trains service the area, it will bring a small handful of jobs our way -- nice!

[matt602]

Yah, the "owner" is not a nice guy either. I snuck around back to take a peak and he promptly yelled at me from a window, telling me to climb a fence and leave. I hadn't even climbed a fence to get back there, I simply walked in through a pathway. Before leaving the same way he threatened to "kick my ass" if I didn't leave... which I never even hesitated on anyway, in fact I had been apologizing for bothering him.

He then stalked me by foot around the block for awhile. Apparently he thinks he owns that entire chunk of city too.

[urban_planner]

Anyone know what time the trains come back into the city and park there for the night at?

[matt602]

I believe the last train getting in is around 6 or 7. The first one is a 4:something departure from Toronto.

[matt602]

Some shots from today. Unfortunately the head end power (a brand new GO MP40) was hiding behind a bunch of crap. Oh well.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/Rail/gotrain-1.jpg

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k201/sugarton/Rail/gotrain-2.jpg

[markbarbera]

It's always a good thing to see increased train service, but I feel compelled to point out a few things:

First off, this layover facility and expanded service has been on the books since pre-Metrolinx days, first draft plans appeared in 2005, long before Bob Bratina was on the board of GO. While I applaud Bob's breathless enthusiasm for all things on rail, it isn't really fair to identify him as the spearhead of this initiative.

Secondly, while a step forward, it is important to note this is significantly less service enhancement than originally proposed back in 05/06. Originally this layover facility was supposed to bring three additinal trips to Hamilton (presumably two new morning trips and one new afternoon trip). I'd like to know what transpired since 2006 that has seen the service enhancement reduced to just one new train. I hope it is simply because the actual layover facility is not completely finished (thus the closed doors on the eastern half of the trains as they enter and leave hamilton GO Centre). I still hold out hope that the original promise of three new runs will be realized.

Finally, I have to express my disappointment that the media event led by Bob focussed on the construction of new parking facilities to respond to growing demand for use of this station, and the allusion that existing buildings may be demolished to accomodate such a parking structure. There was a lost opporunity to reinforce a pro-transit message by pointing out that virtually every HSR route serves the GO Centre, and the easiest way to connect to GO is by HSR. I hope this oversight is rectified (and I hope the idea of a parking garage at the GO Centre dies a quick death too!). Lets focus on expanding transit via LRT routes before something as counterproductive as a parking garage built at what is supposed to be a central transit hub.

[FairHamilton]

I received word the reason for the eastern 7 cars not opening is for safety/security. Because of the slight curve in the track the customer service representative can not see all cars on the platform.

How the opening of the new section of platform suddenly obscured visibility of the 5 cars east of the accessibility car (they opened before the platorm extension was completed) mystifies me. And don't get me started on why this holds true even on the north set of tracks where the curve actually gives better visibility of eastern most cars........., but that's the reason given.

Apparently, they are working to install monitors (cameras) so the customer service rep can see the eastern most cars. Timeframe????

[Bob Bratina]

I was elected to Council in October 2004. One of my first issues was the proposed layover facility which had just been introduced as a project by GO Transit. I represented residents as Ward Councillor at the Public Sessions, and had other meetings and communication with GO officials. A number of sites were in consideration, including the trackage adjacent to Kay Drage Park. My initial response to the Hunter Street lay-over was not positive. Working with the neighbours and GO staff we came to agreement on the new facility's location. Although residents were not originally strongly supportive, I came to realize that this facility would provide significant advantages to our neighbourhood. (I live a block away.) Among them the increased security to the neighbourhood by the well-lit, fenced-in facility that would provide early morning and late night activity that would decrease the problems created by individuals and groups doing mischief along the right of way, and especially on the over-passes. It would also deprive them to a great extent of the ease of passage, making it more difficult to paint graffitti, throw items from the bridge etc.
It also brings great value to the neighbourhood by simply having the GO equipment as billboards, indicating to prospective home-buyers that the service is virtually at their doorstep, should they choose to reside in Corktown.
Much of the background work was already achieved prior to my appointment to the GO Board. That gives me the opportunity to have input in budget decisions that are approved by the board. Hamilton could be a service extension easily compromised in difficult economic times, but fortunately there is solid agreement on service levels and locations, based on the consistent and positive vision displayed by the Board in dealing with the Province of Ontario. (who I may also say has been absolutely supportive of the initiatives and associated funding requirements targeting our City.)

Additional train service is coming to Hamilton, thanks in part to my unwaivering demand that passenger rail service be returned to James St. North. It was an underpinning of my original campaign and led to my assembling of the VIA Rail task force. No more trains can be accomodated at Hunter Street. However the increased GO service, including VIA trains, is explicitly outlined as an immediate (within 5 years) goal of the Metrolinx strategy.

Parking was a passing comment in the news coverage on Monday. There are a couple of opportunities to achieve extra parking, even if only for GO personnel who are somewhat inconvenienced right now in trying to get to the Layover site.

More to the writers' point, my HSR strategy has been accepted, and new bus routes will soon be taking riders directly to the new platform just constructed at the rear of the Hunter Street Station (paid for by GO). This was not the original HSR plan, which instead called for a $15 million dollar terminal building in the parking lot next to the Piggott Building. My hybrid plan, as staff call it, costs $3 million for the MacNab reconfiguration, and up to $5 million for a new ticketing and comfort station structure at that site.

I hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Bob Bratina.

[omro]

Isn't it funny how the throw away statements end up being the news story?

I've a couple of questions based on this paragraph from Mr Bratina's response.

Additional train service is coming to Hamilton, thanks in part to my unwaivering demand that passenger rail service be returned to James St. North. It was an underpinning of my original campaign and led to my assembling of the VIA Rail task force. No more trains can be accomodated at Hunter Street. However the increased GO service, including VIA trains, is explicitly outlined as an immediate (within 5 years) goal of the Metrolinx strategy.

I know some of these have been asked and answered elsewhere, but I'm curious incase things have changed with newer thoughts, etc.

When rail returns to James North, what are the chances that pressure will be brought to bear upon Liuna to allow the original station building to be reused, if only in part, as a railway station?

Which is to come to James North first, VIA or GO or doesn't it matter? They'll both happen at the same time?

When rail comes to James North again, what happens to rail at the Hunter Street station? Can Hamilton support two railway stations that are effectively performing the same task (GO transit to and from Toronto) or will the Hunter Street station be repurposed for some other transit use? Will they have slightly different tasks?

Why can't the Hunter Street station handle more train traffic? I am sure I read somewhere else in this forum about money having be put towards the tracks just outside of Hamilton that would allow passenger trains and freight trains to share the line more easily. Would this not help that station handle more traffic?

I personally think that any increase in rail access to and from Hamilton can only be a good thing.

On a totally personal note, I'm looking forward to riding a GO train for the silliest of reasons. We don't have double decker trains here.:haha:

[emge]

As far as not increasing train service at Hunter, I believe it's because expanding the tunnel there would be very expensive and during certain times it's exclusively used for freight, hampering any more trains being brought in without that tunnel expansion.

Councillor Bratina, my thanks for posting on this board on relevant issues and replying to e-mails quickly - I appreciate that type of involvement from you as my councillor.

[Jon Dalton]

When rail comes to James North again, what happens to rail at the Hunter Street station? Can Hamilton support two railway stations that are effectively performing the same task (GO transit to and from Toronto) or will the Hunter Street station be repurposed for some other transit use? Will they have slightly different tasks?

Why can't the Hunter Street station handle more train traffic? I am sure I read somewhere else in this forum about money having be put towards the tracks just outside of Hamilton that would allow passenger trains and freight trains to share the line more easily. Would this not help that station handle more traffic?


This rail line is very busy with freights and there is a single track tunnel immediately west of the station. Although, I have heard mixed opinions on the actual significance of the tunnel (it's only about 1km long). It was once planned to double-track the tunnel but costs escalated and as far as I know have been scrapped. The tunnel was originally double track but was reduced to single track in the 50's to accomodate bigger trains, with new control technology that allowed the same amount of traffic with one track.

I want to have hope that this train station will not be forever resigned to 4 trains per day. Millions were spent on its restoration and the rail work needed to service it.

Based on information I've received from various sources, the technical facilities exist to run a far greater number of trains through the station than are currently allowed. I've talked to members of the TH&B society who used to run the control board (located in the upstairs of the station) and ran 20 passenger trains a day through the tunnel, plus freights. However one member of this board pointed out that the frieght business is increasingly competitive today and thus CP Rail must maintain tight control over its tracks.

Our best hope is that rail connections to Buffalo will be in demand once again. The TH&B rail line serves Buffalo directly. The line is currently single track east of the station. The James North station is being revived as part of Metrolinx plans to connect the GTA to the Niagara region which is served by the CN line. Perhaps the revival of the TH&B line will come about through a federal effort to reestablish connections throught Canada and to the US.

[Bob Bratina]

There is little chance that more trains could be added to Hunter St. The last time the tunnel was enlarged, to accomodate the big auto carriers, they had to lower the roadbed to increase the height. To re-open the cut to enlarge would not be possible without millions of extra dollars spent to underpin the apartment buildings that were erected in the last 40 years. A workman was killed at one adjacent building under construction when a passing train caused the cave-in of an improperly hoarded excavation. The soil is quite sandy and easily disturbed.

In developing the lay-over plan I did discuss with GO and the Mayor of Welland the possibility of having the trains originate in Welland to service the Niagara Peninsula. Trillium Railway's Wayne Ettinger originally suggested bringing passengers into Hamilton from Welland using a Budd Car, allowing them to connect. CP had issues with other crews operating on their line, and GO's long term vision was to extend service eventually along the CN lakeshore line.

I wouldn't rule out a return to railway use of the LIUNA Station building and or property. I think it will be some time though before a volume of service is established that would require more than basic platform and ticketing facilities.

What is the point Mr. Barbera wishes to make his unkind suggestion? If I can contribute useful information based on my work on Council and with GO, I'm happy to. I stated in an election debate that it is common for politicians to take credit for things that require many contributors to be successful. The failure of any one might impede or prevent a succesful conclusion. Similarly with the Layover facility. Mr. Barbera would be amazed at how quickly plans can change or be stopped entirely. U.S. Steel in Hamilton is an unfortunate example. And who's to say who took the decisive action, and who might have stopped it. There are some City initiatives that I can lay almost exclusive claim to, but establishment of rail facilities and service is a very complicated and expensive business. If Mr. Barbera doesn't mind I will continue to pause, gaze, and smile at those wonderful MP40's which now make Hamilton their home, because I love trains and I had something to do with them being here.

[Dundasguy]

It's always a good thing to see increased train service, but I feel compelled to point out a few things:

First off, this layover facility and expanded service has been on the books since pre-Metrolinx days, first draft plans appeared in 2005, long before Bob Bratina was on the board of GO. While I applaud Bob's breathless enthusiasm for all things on rail, it isn't really fair to identify him as the spearhead of this initiative.

Secondly, while a step forward, it is important to note this is significantly less service enhancement than originally proposed back in 05/06. Originally this layover facility was supposed to bring three additinal trips to Hamilton (presumably two new morning trips and one new afternoon trip). I'd like to know what transpired since 2006 that has seen the service enhancement reduced to just one new train. I hope it is simply because the actual layover facility is not completely finished (thus the closed doors on the eastern half of the trains as they enter and leave hamilton GO Centre). I still hold out hope that the original promise of three new runs will be realized.

Finally, I have to express my disappointment that the media event led by Bob focussed on the construction of new parking facilities to respond to growing demand for use of this station, and the allusion that existing buildings may be demolished to accomodate such a parking structure. There was a lost opporunity to reinforce a pro-transit message by pointing out that virtually every HSR route serves the GO Centre, and the easiest way to connect to GO is by HSR. I hope this oversight is rectified (and I hope the idea of a parking garage at the GO Centre dies a quick death too!). Lets focus on expanding transit via LRT routes before something as counterproductive as a parking garage built at what is supposed to be a central transit hub.


Blah Blah Blah...is black always white with you?

[matt602]

Just wanted to thank you for the input Mr. Bratina. I greatly appreciate it.

[markbarbera]

Mr. Bratina, there was no intent in my posting here earlier today to level 'unkind words' against you. I merely wanted to bring perspective to Monday's media event and remind everyone that the overall effort went far beyond any one individual, and to express my disappointment that the end result in GO train service actually falls considerably short of the deliverables originally promised by GO several years back. In no way were my comments made in order to diminish your role in the completion of this project, and, as I said in my earlier post, I sincerely appreciate the energy you bring to transit-related projects in this city. Frankly, I am surprised at your somewhat snippy response to me in your later post, which I'll attribute to a post made most likely at the end of a very long day.

Having said that, let me reaffirm what I have said on many occasions within this forum and within my direct correspondence with you. Being a constituent of your ward, I appreciate the long hours and hard work you put in on behalf of Ward 2.

[Jon Dalton]

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/jondalton/ektar%20100/jonsektar100AA018A.jpg

[omro]

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj194/jondalton/ektar%20100/jonsektar100AA018A.jpg

Cool, I have never been in a double decker train, not sure we even have them here.

[thisisdan]

Don Campbell said that increased Go service is one of the reasons why Hamilton is one of the best places to buy real estate in Canada on The Hour last night. http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/videos.html?id=1065889868
(it's right at the end, about 9 minutes into the video)

___
http://www.avonhamilton.com | view brochures online

[highwater]

Neat clip. Thanks for the catch.

[sofasurfer]

Cool, I have never been in a double decker train, not sure we even have them here.

99.9% certain the UK doesn't have any - they do in Holland, Belgium and Italy IIRC.

[Jon Dalton]

Cool, I have never been in a double decker train, not sure we even have them here.

If you're used to UK trains you might find ours slow, rickety, loud and lacking in amenities. The trains I've rode around the London area were the smoothest and quietest of all the trains I've ridden, and some of the best interiors.

[omro]

If you're used to UK trains you might find ours slow, rickety, loud and lacking in amenities. The trains I've rode around the London area were the smoothest and quietest of all the trains I've ridden, and some of the best interiors.

My former job had me on the tube (underground) at least an hour a day and onto the various railways to various destinations at least another hour to a maximum of another seven hours a day. So believe me, in the last two years I've sat on trains far more than I've sat in offices! The standard varies greatly. The majority are certainly as you describe, though nothing has beaten the Eurostar to Paris. London to Paris (334km) in just over two hours on the smoothest train I've ever been on. I do like train travel a lot. I can sit and read or watch tv (I have had an archos personal media player for years).

Hopefully I'll find a job in Hamilton and just walk to work, but if I have to commute to Toronto, I'll survive. I would like to take the train there at least once though. Sit on the top deck and look out. :)

[Batman]

When are you moving to Hamilton omro?

[omro]

When are you moving to Hamilton omro?

The 5th April :)

[matt602]

Don Campbell said that increased Go service is one of the reasons why Hamilton is one of the best places to buy real estate in Canada on The Hour last night. http://www.cbc.ca/thehour/videos.html?id=1065889868
(it's right at the end, about 9 minutes into the video)

___
http://www.avonhamilton.com | view brochures online

"The City leadership is fantastic in the region"

:haha:

[omro]

99.9% certain the UK doesn't have any - they do in Holland, Belgium and Italy IIRC.

I've never seen any, too many low victorian bridges probably.

Australia has them, so my flatmate tells me, but I've never been there.

[emge]

I can sit and read or watch tv (I have had an archos personal media player for years).

Hopefully I'll find a job in Hamilton and just walk to work, but if I have to commute to Toronto, I'll survive. I would like to take the train there at least once though. Sit on the top deck and look out. :)

As itt turns out, I do have to commute to Toronto every day in April (working at a one-month placement at St. Michael's Hospital) and I'm just thrilled - it gives me two and a half extra hours in a day to work on other things...

It's really nice to have my commute be usable time instead of standing/waiting/walking/etc.

[FairHamilton]

"The City leadership is fantastic in the region"

:haha:

I had to replay that section again to make sure that I heard it right, I couldn't believe my ears.

And the irony of hearing that after coming back from the Guelph Civic League presentation is not lost on me.

[borgo100]

The 5th April :)

Same day at the Death Cab For Cutie concert..... :shrug: i like them

[sofasurfer]

If you're used to UK trains you might find ours slow, rickety, loud and lacking in amenities. The trains I've rode around the London area were the smoothest and quietest of all the trains I've ridden, and some of the best interiors.

I've had to take the GO Train in to Toronto a couple of times now for work meetings - it really wasn't as bad as you're making out, IMO. The only thing I don't recall seeing were toilets on board (which some - but by no means all, particularly on commuter routes - UK trains have).

Sounds like you were lucky enough to travel on some of the London lines that have nice trains (South West Trains, perhaps?) It *really* depends on which Train Operating Company (TOC) franchise you're travelling with - they vary a *lot*... IIRC, the former Thameslink and Silverlink franchises had some pretty crappy rolling stock that is now quite dated compared to, say, SWT (which until about 4-5 years ago still had slam-door trains running, some of which were about 30-40 years old and below minimum safety standards!)

I do find the GO bus a bit of a let-down after taking the train, though - but in terms of conveniece (especially at weekends) it's been a no-brainer.

[omro]

Sounds like you were lucky enough to travel on some of the London lines that have nice trains (South West Trains, perhaps?) It *really* depends on which Train Operating Company (TOC) franchise you're travelling with - they vary a *lot*... IIRC, the former Thameslink and Silverlink franchises had some pretty crappy rolling stock that is now quite dated compared to, say, SWT (which until about 4-5 years ago still had slam-door trains running, some of which were about 30-40 years old and below minimum safety standards!)

First Great Western
East Midlands Trains, were Midland Mainline (I missed their free cups of tea :( after the change over)
Virgin
National Express
Southern
South West Trains

These were the main train service providers to my clients.

Silverlink got bought by National Express, they are having most of their trains upgraded. Other silverlink trains became part of London Overground, which is expanding.

[FairHamilton]

The only thing I don't recall seeing were toilets on board (which some - but by no means all, particularly on commuter routes - UK trains have).

Yup, the trains have toilets.

I do find the GO bus a bit of a let-down after taking the train, though - but in terms of conveniece (especially at weekends) it's been a no-brainer.

Bus has a much more convenient schedule, every 30 minutes during the day, every 20 during morning rush & every 15 during afternoon rush. In clear traffic it's quicker than the train, and good if you are riding with someone you know. Though no toilets on the bus.

[Jon Dalton]

I've had to take the GO Train in to Toronto a couple of times now for work meetings - it really wasn't as bad as you're making out, IMO. The only thing I don't recall seeing were toilets on board (which some - but by no means all, particularly on commuter routes - UK trains have).


The GO trains also vary according to trackage, some of the tracks leading into Hamilton are terrible. Other sections are remarkably smooth. The few sections that GO has bought or built itself seem to be the best. All GO trains have washrooms and a few cars always have the big, wheelchair accessible ones.

[emge]

. Though no toilets on the bus.

Don't a couple of the GO buses have toilets? I'm thinking of the Uxbridge-Stouffville route I used to take to Toronto, though, and I could be mixing them up with a Greyhound trip.

[sofasurfer]

Bus has a much more convenient schedule, every 30 minutes during the day, every 20 during morning rush & every 15 during afternoon rush. In clear traffic it's quicker than the train, and good if you are riding with someone you know.

This is what I meant about a no-brainer. Looking back, my OP was quite badly worded (it's been a hectic day! I want it to be the weekend already!)

Though no toilets on the bus.

Which is why I'd prefer the train in rush hour - getting stuck on the QEW and getting 'caught short' (as they say in the UK) would be horrendous.

The 'Oxford Tube' (which is actually a double-decker coach - go figure!) has a very similar schedule to the Hamilton-Union express bus, but has toilets on board (and, from memory, is much more comfortable). However, there is a direct rival in the shape of the Oxford Bus Company (X90 service, IIRC) with a similar schedule, so that may have a bearing on things.

Having said that, Stagecoach operate Oxford Tube, and I'm sure they have a presence here with their Megabus service (Toronto-Buffalo-NYC, I think?). Surprised they haven't tried to compete on the potentially lucrative McMaster/Hamilton route? Or is the market just not there?

(then again, if you're familiar with Brian Souter's business practices and bigotry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Souter), maybe it's a good thing he's not trying to make more of an impact here)

[omro]

if you're familiar with Brian Souter's business practices and bigotry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Souter)

Am familiar with and not a fan...