[nickinacan]

I started this thread since it seemed like much of the information regarding the City Centre plans was getting lost in the thread regarding the proposed Central City Phase 2 (City Hall) Development. This thread is meant to facilitate discussion regarding the overall design plans for the rejuvenation and development of the Surrey City Centre into a metropolitan centre.

From what I gathered at 'The Next Great Metropolitan Centre' presentation at Central City (February 28), the City of Surrey and Bing Thom Architects are both being very ambitious. The renderings and concept designs were absolutely fantastic, better than anything I could have expected. The major theme of the plans seemed to be "mixed use architecture". This theme was carried over in virtually all areas of planning. Some major design elements were:

- The development of the mirrored civic plaza across from the current Central City plaza to create a civic plaza. As discussed in a former post, it included a variable use element that could be a fountain (waterpark?), performance stage and ice rink. Again, 102 Avenue would be closed off to accommodate events.

- The redevelopment of three of the former lakes that were formerly in the area, protection of the creeks, and introducing the "green fingers" that will (some already exist) would run into the City Centre via multiple locations.

- The calming of King George Highway by redistributing some of the traffic to other main north/south routes in the area. These new connecting streets have already been planned, but have not been implemented.

- The intersection of King George and 108 Avenue will be turned into into a large roundabout intersection, planting a giant fountain in the middle of it. It would look and feel something like a smaller version of Columbus Circle in New York and act as a "gateway" to the city.

- The beautification of all the streets in the area with multiple types of trees, flora, street furniture and lighting. With the development, space was taken into account to allow ample light during the daytime.

- Focus all the tallest (Highest FAR) development along the King George corridor and around the Skytrain stations, most within a 10 minute walk of each Skytrain station. All development will taper to low rise as it reaches the edges of the City Centre.

- The Gateway area is slated to be more of a residential based area in kin to the West End.

- The Surrey Central area will become the major corporate and business centre of Surrey, with some residential highrises thrown in the mix.

- The King George Station area will be transformed into a mix of both commercial and residential.

[nickinacan]

Just to continue, I want to talk about some of the ideas that were shared during the presentation.

The most affirmative ideas were brought up with discussion with Councillor Barinder Rasode. The City of Surrey is committed to building one of the most sustainable city centres in North America. In addition, the plans are to develop cultural draws such as a new central library, recreation centre, parkland and events in the city centre to draw people in. The city's vision is to be able to have people locate in the city centre, and never have to leave. Everything will be located in one central area, and in walking or biking distance.

One gentleman in the crowd mentioned that he was an avid sports fan and wondered if they would ever develop a stadium. Oddly enough, Councillor Rasode mentioned that this was being discussed and is in the planning stages. I would assume that this would be the fabled 10,000 to 15,000 seat mixed use stadium that the Lower Mainland desperately needs. There was no mention of location.

As for City Hall, they are 100% in to moving City Hall to the City Centre.

I had the chance to talk to the representative from Bing Thom Architects regarding the designs. One thing that he mentioned is that city council has already approved these designs. As for the new building, it will eventually come in time, but he mentioned that market studies are currently being completed. He mentioned that the whole development of the City Centre could take up to 30 years. Councillor Rasode has mentioned that City Council's goal is to make Surrey City Centre "better than" Downtown Vancouver in 10 years. That is a very ambitious goal.

This presentation was much more informative than the previous open house. It didn't get down to the intricacies and details, but that is something that is currently being studied, but the ideas that were presented were all excellent.

One nice surprise was Former Vancouver Councillor Gordon Price was in attendance and shared some of his some advice/opinions/rants. he was impressed with the overall plan, but mentioned that to make it successful, the major focus needs to be on encouraging people to move around without using cars. In essence, he suggested multiple modes from Skytrain, LRT, but and even more bicycle right of ways. In addition, he mentioned that the main competition for the City Centre will be Guildford as a result of the Gateway program.

SFU apparently has an overwhelming demand to get into the Surrey Campus and will be investing in developing more space to accommodate the demand. One idea that was tossed around was even moving the focus off of Burnaby Mountain and and putting it on Surrey. There was even talk of possibly moving their sports teams to Surrey. These are only ideas.

[Whalleyboy]

there was something about sfu moving its sports stuff to surrey i thought

[raggedy13]

Those all sounds like some impressive ideas. There is no way I could see Central City being "better than" downtown in just 10 years but the more ambitious and aggressive their plans the better. I'm sure in 10 years it will be near unrecognizable either way and be well on its way to being a proper downtown. They might be able to build some great sports/entertainment/cultural institutions but it'll probably take a little longer for that fine-grain organic urbanism to come about.

Next building boom Surrey should be a real national construction hotspot, especially considering it will apparently be getting a number of tall towers capable of rivaling those of any city in Canada.

[LeftCoaster]

One gentleman in the crowd mentioned that he was an avid sports fan and wondered if they would ever develop a stadium. Oddly enough, Councillor Rasode mentioned that this was being discussed and is in the planning stages. I would assume that this would be the fabled 10,000 to 15,000 seat mixed use stadium that the Lower Mainland desperately needs. There was no mention of location.

Are you refering to the now defunct waterfront stadium? Because this would not be it. Anything the City of Surrey is looking at in regards to a stadium has nothing to do with Kerfoot's stadium, as he has specifically stated he is not interested in building his stadium outside of Vancouver proper

Councillor Rasode has mentioned that City Council's goal is to make Surrey City Centre "better than" Downtown Vancouver in 10 years. That is a very ambitious goal.

:rolleyes:

I suppose it helps to set your goals high... but come on.

[djmk]

- The redevelopment of three of the former lakes that were formerly in the area, protection of the creeks, and introducing the "green fingers" that will (some already exist) would run into the City Centre via multiple locations.

- The intersection of King George and 108 Avenue will be turned into into a large roundabout intersection, planting a giant fountain in the middle of it. It would look and feel something like a smaller version of Columbus Circle in New York and act as a "gateway" to the city.



I'm curious about these 3 lakes. i never knew these existed. how would the city "redevelop" them?

and a round-about with a fountain??? that is bold. i would imagine that traffic would have to be really slimmed down for this to happen. round-abouts scare me. i really do not know when to let people in or keep going, and if it is a multi-lane and really busy one....(ie like in rome) forget about it. and i think most BCer's are like me.

[twoNeurons]

It's likely what Kerfoot says about not wanting a stadium outside Vancouver proper is posturing.

He can't be seen wavering in his decision when he's invested so much into a downtown stadium.

Saying that, though, the Whitecaps stadium would probably be better suited for downtown Vancouver, as Kerfoot wants to elevate the status of soccer to a 1st class sport in Vancouver. Being in Surrey just doesn't have the exposure and wouldn't attract as much corporate support.

Anyway, we've gone down this road before.

[twoNeurons]

I'm curious about these 3 lakes. i never knew these existed. how would the city "redevelop" them?

and a round-about with a fountain??? that is bold. i would imagine that traffic would have to be really slimmed down for this to happen. round-abouts scare me. i really do not know when to let people in or keep going, and if it is a multi-lane and really busy one....(ie like in rome) forget about it. and i think most BCer's are like me.

What's so difficult about yielding to drivers in the circle? If you're in the circle, you don't yield. Same as an intersection, really. Now that you know, you have no excuse. :)

[LeftCoaster]

BC drivers better get used to traffic circles because more and more are coming. When used at appropriate intersections they are great.

[djmk]

What's so difficult about yielding to drivers in the circle? If you're in the circle, you don't yield. Same as an intersection, really. Now that you know, you have no excuse. :)

ya, i still do not like them. well, at least the big ones. i'm too much of a polite driver and i end up yielding to everybody and nobody yields for me:shrug: and besides, i think the rule is.... always yield to the person on your right, so you are yielding once your inside the circle.

besides, right now i'm imaging my mother in law stuck in the center lane of a traffic circle going around and around and around and wondering how she is going to get to the outer lane.

actually, in my neighbourhood in N Burnaby, traffic circles have been installed in about 1/5 of the intersections. many drivers just wizz through them without looking. i ask ICBC why and they said that the purpose of a traffic circle is to have some confusion therefore drivers slow down and if there is an accident, the accident is from the back corner of the car rather than a T-Bone.

[twoNeurons]

ya, i still do not like them. well, at least the big ones. i'm too much of a polite driver and i end up yielding to everybody and nobody yields for me:shrug: and besides, i think the rule is.... always yield to the person on your right, so you are yielding once your inside the circle.

Consider it impolite to yield once in the circle.

actually, in my neighbourhood in N Burnaby, traffic circles have been installed in about 1/5 of the intersections. many drivers just wizz through them without looking. i ask ICBC why and they said that the purpose of a traffic circle is to have some confusion therefore drivers slow down and if there is an accident, the accident is from the back corner of the car rather than a T-Bone.
That's one ICBC adjuster's opinion, but interesting nonetheless.

The one beef "I" have with small traffic circles is that people go the wrong way around them when turning left in order to short-cut the turn. Of course, this would rarely if ever happen on a large traffic circle.

Personally, I love the thought of rarely having to stop at an intersection.

BTW, did ANYONE get any pictures of these City Centre development proposals?

[nickinacan]

Are you refering to the now defunct waterfront stadium? Because this would not be it. Anything the City of Surrey is looking at in regards to a stadium has nothing to do with Kerfoot's stadium, as he has specifically stated he is not interested in building his stadium outside of Vancouver proper

Not at all. This has nothing to do with the soccer stadium. This is basically a mixed use venue much like GM Place, just on a smaller scale. The demand is there and it would help attract concerts that don't need a large scale venue like GM Place or BC Place.

And yes, they have set the bar very high for them, but they are working extremely hard to accomplish their goals, and even lobbying to attract business and government offices to the area. Even with the current economic situation, investment and the interest to invest in the Surrey City Centre is quite high. Weststone group has another huge project that will be announced in the coming months. Not to mention the investment by the multiple levels of government, which in multiple other upstart cities was the key to getting investment started.

Will Surrey rival Vancouver in 10 years? Probably not. But the rapid development, low business taxes, sustainable development might garner Vancouver to take a look at itself and prepare for more competition. Even if Surrey doesn't rival Vancouver, anything is better that what is currently there.

[nickinacan]

I'm curious about these 3 lakes. i never knew these existed. how would the city "redevelop" them?

and a round-about with a fountain??? that is bold. i would imagine that traffic would have to be really slimmed down for this to happen. round-abouts scare me. i really do not know when to let people in or keep going, and if it is a multi-lane and really busy one....(ie like in rome) forget about it. and i think most BCer's are like me.

Apparently there were many small lakes in the Surrey Centre area before the 1950's. They were all filled in to allow more land to develop, much like many of the creeks in Vancouver. There were about 6 if I remember correctly. Essentially, the plan is to rediscover the lakes and integrate them into the parkland/greenway system.

From my discussion with the architect, when the roundabout/fountain was proposed, apparently the transportation department engineers had a panic attack. Since King George will be calmed, with traffic being diverted to other streets, it could be a reality. It also makes sense given the street layout around that area. Not to mention with the density proposed in that area, it will look spectacular.

[nickinacan]

ya, i still do not like them. well, at least the big ones. i'm too much of a polite driver and i end up yielding to everybody and nobody yields for me:shrug: and besides, i think the rule is.... always yield to the person on your right, so you are yielding once your inside the circle.

besides, right now i'm imaging my mother in law stuck in the center lane of a traffic circle going around and around and around and wondering how she is going to get to the outer lane.

actually, in my neighbourhood in N Burnaby, traffic circles have been installed in about 1/5 of the intersections. many drivers just wizz through them without looking. i ask ICBC why and they said that the purpose of a traffic circle is to have some confusion therefore drivers slow down and if there is an accident, the accident is from the back corner of the car rather than a T-Bone.

There are actually less points in a roundabout/traffic circle to hit a pedestrian or another vehicle, making them safer. Not to mention that it eliminates left turn lanes, keeping traffic constantly moving.

[DKaz]

Edmonton has a few 2 lane roundabouts. Basically you're supposed to yield to all traffic in the circle. If you're trying to get into the right lane and there's a car in the circle on the left lane, you're not supposed to go until that car is clear because he could be turning into the next road, but if you're turning right as well then just go right through if the right lane is clear. If you're turning right, you stay on the right lane. If you're going straight through, you use either the left or right lane. If you're turning left, you go on the left lane. Once the circle is clear, two cars will enter at the same time, they can either both go straight, or the guy on the left could be making a left turn and the one on the right going straight, or the guy on the right could be turning right and the one on the left going straight, or both of them could be turning in their respective directions. You're basically applying 4 way stop procedures to the turning circles. It's takes a little bit to get used to them but they're a lot better of keeping traffic moving in an intersection like King George and 108 where traffic is light enough that a traffic light actually slows down the flow of traffic.

If my description is confusing, BC Transportation & Highways has some excellent resource materials on how the two lane roundabouts work.
http://www.th.gov.bc.ca/popular-topics/roundabouts/roundabouts.htm

[LeftCoaster]

ya, i still do not like them. well, at least the big ones. i'm too much of a polite driver and i end up yielding to everybody and nobody yields for me:shrug: and besides, i think the rule is.... always yield to the person on your right, so you are yielding once your inside the circle.

besides, right now i'm imaging my mother in law stuck in the center lane of a traffic circle going around and around and around and wondering how she is going to get to the outer lane.

actually, in my neighbourhood in N Burnaby, traffic circles have been installed in about 1/5 of the intersections. many drivers just wizz through them without looking. i ask ICBC why and they said that the purpose of a traffic circle is to have some confusion therefore drivers slow down and if there is an accident, the accident is from the back corner of the car rather than a T-Bone.

Like others have said before they are safer and once you get used to them (which really shouldnt take long) they make quite a bit of sense. They are also better for fuel economy, as you dont need to be constantly stopping and starting as with a traditional stop sign intersection.

one less tangible benefit is that they allow for a much more asthetically pleasing intersection as the middle of the circle can be filled with landscape features or even fountains statues etc...

Not at all. This has nothing to do with the soccer stadium. This is basically a mixed use venue much like GM Place, just on a smaller scale. The demand is there and it would help attract concerts that don't need a large scale venue like GM Place or BC Place.

And yes, they have set the bar very high for them, but they are working extremely hard to accomplish their goals, and even lobbying to attract business and government offices to the area. Even with the current economic situation, investment and the interest to invest in the Surrey City Centre is quite high. Weststone group has another huge project that will be announced in the coming months. Not to mention the investment by the multiple levels of government, which in multiple other upstart cities was the key to getting investment started.

Will Surrey rival Vancouver in 10 years? Probably not. But the rapid development, low business taxes, sustainable development might garner Vancouver to take a look at itself and prepare for more competition. Even if Surrey doesn't rival Vancouver, anything is better that what is currently there.

Sounds quite promising, maybe could even attract a WHL team for surrey in the near future.

[djmk]

Apparently there were many small lakes in the Surrey Centre area before the 1950's. They were all filled in to allow more land to develop, much like many of the creeks in Vancouver. There were about 6 if I remember correctly. Essentially, the plan is to rediscover the lakes and integrate them into the parkland/greenway system.

I really find this interesting. I wonder if there is a Trout Lake hidden somewhere just waiting to be found, however, if something is developed above the lake, i wonder how they would reclaim it.

From my discussion with the architect, when the roundabout/fountain was proposed, apparently the transportation department engineers had a panic attack. Since King George will be calmed, with traffic being diverted to other streets, it could be a reality. It also makes sense given the street layout around that area. Not to mention with the density proposed in that area, it will look spectacular.

i'm glad i was not alone:jester:

[SpongeG]

surrey has some roundabouts already - there is one in south surrey/white rock that works great - much better than the old intersection

[twoNeurons]

Of course, the only negative thing about a LARGE roundabout is that they can be deadly for pedestrians if there are no underpasses/overpasses... as pedestrians may be tempted to cut across.

Here's one in Bellingham:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/wa_roundabout.jpg
source (http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/roundabout.htm)


A diagram for pedestrians
http://blog.mlive.com/judy_mcgovern/2009/02/large_roundabout%20PP%20slide%2014.croppedPNG.png
source (http://blog.mlive.com/judy_mcgovern/2009/02/some_data_for_ann_arbor_rounda.html)

The most important sign:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/roundabout_lane_control_sign.gif

[DKaz]

Here's one in Bellingham:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/wa_roundabout.jpg
source (http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist1/d1projects/roundabout.htm)

That's beautiful. Imagine that at 108/King George with a fountain, then looking south down to see a row of commercial mid and high rises, residential high rises with commercial retail units on the bottom floor, 2 lanes of traffic each way with widened sidewalks filled with pedestrians. It'll be a calmer version of Broadway central district. If this is the future Surrey is looking for, this will truly make Surrey attractive.

[Whalleyboy]

Apparently there were many small lakes in the Surrey Centre area before the 1950's. They were all filled in to allow more land to develop, much like many of the creeks in Vancouver. There were about 6 if I remember correctly. Essentially, the plan is to rediscover the lakes and integrate them into the parkland/greenway system.

From my discussion with the architect, when the roundabout/fountain was proposed, apparently the transportation department engineers had a panic attack. Since King George will be calmed, with traffic being diverted to other streets, it could be a reality. It also makes sense given the street layout around that area. Not to mention with the density proposed in that area, it will look spectacular.

that is true they are working hard on calming king george
if you look at planed road maps for surrey you would see 140 street is planed to be wided and lanes added all the way threw to 112ave and that is also gonna be wided and more lanes added thus making a road connection to king george again then to the bridge what would completely pass this round about

[Whalleyboy]

surrey has some roundabouts already - there is one in south surrey/white rock that works great - much better than the old intersection

two in white rock south surrey theres one single and one double lane one

[SpongeG]

i've used that one in bellingham many times - its never that busy and it sure beats the old traffic light that used to be there

check how they dealt with the pedestrians in this one - kinda weird

http://obr.gcnpublishing.com/articles/images/round%20about%20muirfieldbrand%20.jpg

[Whalleyboy]

it looks like a nice little park on the one side between the roads

[SpongeG]

you can tell your kids to go play in the traffic ;)

[Whalleyboy]

awesome i've always wanted to play in traffic lol

[Whalleyboy]

Like others have said before they are safer and once you get used to them (which really shouldnt take long) they make quite a bit of sense. They are also better for fuel economy, as you dont need to be constantly stopping and starting as with a traditional stop sign intersection.

one less tangible benefit is that they allow for a much more asthetically pleasing intersection as the middle of the circle can be filled with landscape features or even fountains statues etc...



Sounds quite promising, maybe could even attract a WHL team for surrey in the near future.

I really would love for that i dont see how we can't have another team in lower mainland plus would be some great Surrey Vancouver rivalry
and to people who think there isnt enough people for that all i got to say is how does chilliwack have a freakin team then

[Blake]

I really would love for that i dont see how we can't have another team in lower mainland plus would be some great Surrey Vancouver rivalry
and to people who think there isnt enough people for that all i got to say is how does chilliwack have a freakin team then

Because WHL teams can be supported by smaller markets?

Red Deer, Lethbridge, Swift Current, Brandon, Cranbrook...need I go on?

I'm not sure what rules the WHL has regarding encroaching on other team's territories, but it's fairly reasonable to assume Surrey could support one.

In unrelated news: Abbotsford is a very possible destination for an AHL team next year (Calgary Flames affiliate)

[Whalleyboy]

I'm not saying we can't i am saying we can and should i just said what i said cause i said something about surrey getting a whl team of its own in a different thread a while back and some people said theres not enough people in the lower mainland to support two teams....dont ask i have no clue what they were on

[Kodii]

I'm not saying we can't i am saying we can and should i just said what i said cause i said something about surrey getting a whl team of its own in a different thread a while back and some people said theres not enough people in the lower mainland to support two teams....dont ask i have no clue what they were on

A little bit of punctuation would go a long way to help people understand what the heck you're saying.

The time it spent to decipher aside, I'd have to agree that the population for a WHL team in Surrey is definitely there. For whatever reason, I feel as if it wouldn't exactly be feasible though. If Abby gets the Flames, then between Vancouver, Abby and Chilliwack, we'd have 1 NHL, 2 WHL and 1 AHL team. It'd be nice to have something in between, but it doesn't seem like it'll happen any time soon.

[Whalleyboy]

I suck at english okay
who knows surrey might get one only thing is they need to make an arena first that would hold the people to watch it are current biggest is south surrey and that barely holds anyone

[twoNeurons]

I really would love for that i dont see how we can't have another team in lower mainland plus would be some great Surrey Vancouver rivalry
and to people who think there isnt enough people for that all i got to say is how does chilliwack have a freakin team then

Yeah... Chilliwack had a long hockey history, with the Chwk Chiefs before. I believe it was AAA and always winning games.

When they built Prospera centre, it was a given for WHL. There are somewhere between 60,000 - 80,000 in Chilliwack, if I'm not mistaken... which isn't much smaller than Kamloops... who also have a WHL team. Kelowna is about the size of Abbotsford.

Lots of new stadiums proposed/built recently in the Lower Mainland.

[Whalleyboy]

see thats why i really want to see surrey get to it on building a big arena not asking for gm place size just something good enough for whl

closest i've seen to anything for a bigger arena was at cloverdale with there plan
but it shouldnt be there it should be near downtown surrey

[metroXpress]

Why did the discussion turn into hockey? :koko: I was expecting some news from the open house?

[Whalleyboy]

cause sadly seems ever surrey building gets off topic about stuff to do with surrey we really need a separate thread just for discussion about surrey lol

[Locked In]

Surrey mayor unveils radical economic development plan

By Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun - March 11, 2009 9:01 PM

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/surrey+mayor+reveals+radical+plan+create+free+economic+zones/1378528/1379133.bin
Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts
Photograph by: Stuart Davis, Vancouver Sun file


METRO VANCOUVER -- Surrey Mayor Dianne Watts on Wednesday unveiled a radical new concept to create tax-free economic zones in the city in a bid to attract developers and generate jobs during the recession.

The stimulus plan designates the City Centre and Bridgeview-South Westminster neighbourhoods as areas where major new projects won’t have to pay property taxes for three years.

The city also intends to cut development cost charges by 33 per cent and defer payment until later in the building process, as well as reduce building permit fees by 50 per cent.

These new incentives would apply to projects worth more than $10 million that are under construction before the end of 2010.

A typical $20-million project would save about three to four per cent in costs.

“Right now when we have challenging economic times, investors are pulling back and not moving forward on projects,” Watts said. “We’re getting nothing now; if we can ignite that investment piece now, we’re that much further ahead.”

Watts said the strategy is a “new and innovative approach to attracting investment and creating jobs and the first in B.C.”

In announcing the plan to business leaders at her annual State of the City speech, Watts said no country has escaped the effects of the global recession nor is immune to the faltering financial markets around the world.

Surrey has already lost jobs across various sectors of the economy and the situation will only get worse, she said.

Another key element of the action plan is the city’s $465-million capital works program, which is expected to create more than 4,000 jobs over the next three years, she said. Surrey will also continue to press the federal government for infrastructure funding.

“What we want is to make sure we can create an environment where you still invest and create infrastructure and jobs so that by the time the buildings get built, we’ll be through the bad times,” she said.

Michael Geller, one of the people appointed to the mayor’s advisory committee on investment and job creation, said the City Centre area will see a mix of residential and commercial, while Bridgeview, a neighbourhood at the end of the Pattullo Bridge, will likely see commercial development.

High-density residential development applications for City Centre, valued at more than $50 million, will receive similar tax breaks. As well, the city will pump millions into improved transportation access to the area near the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

To make all these initiatives move faster, the mayor said, the city will cut red tape and spend up to $10 million to ensure that city hall is “building-permit ready.”

Maureen Enser, executive director of the Urban Development Institute, lauded Watts’ strategy as a “progressive” move that should be adopted by other municipalities, many of which are now increasing development cost charges despite the tight economy.

For every million dollars spent on construction, Enser said, 15 jobs are created. The developments Watts is trying to attract are multi-million projects, which will lead to hundreds of good-paying jobs in the city and more taxes from people living and working in Surrey.

“It’s a big sign to the entrance to Surrey saying ‘we’re open for business,’” Enser said.

“[Watts] understands this is not the time to make it more difficult to do business; she’s saying ‘come to our community’ because we want to have long-term jobs.”

Langley businessman Ralph Berezan, who is planning a multimillion-dollar development near the King George SkyTrain station, said the tax incentives will be big help.

Although his project is expected to be developed over 20 years, he said the new incentives will allow him to build a commercial office tower on the site immediately.

“We’d probably still proceed because I believe strongly in that City Centre program but this helps,” Berezan said. “That’s Dianne for you. She’s a leader ... she’s saying, ‘Hey let’s go.”

“It’s excellent. It’s time a few other other cities took the message.”

Geller said other developers are waiting in the wings to invest in Surrey. While Watts was giving her address, he said, developers were participating in a forum hosted by the Urban Land Institute in Surrey.

“People are beginning to realize there are potential opportunities out there,” he said.

Surrey’s deputy city manager Dan Bottrill agreed there is a lot of interest in developing the city. The aim of the strategy, he said, is to speak to those investors and try to reduce some of the challenges they’re facing, whether it is timing, red tape or development cost charges.

The action plan will complement projects already being initiated by the provincial and federal stimulus programs, including the Port Mann Bridge expansion and the South Fraser Perimeter Road.

“There’s always been a lot of interest but in the tough economic climate right now it’s tough for people to say, ‘Let’s do it,’” Bottrill said. “It’s all about cash flow for the developers and making it easier.”

Enser said Watts has started a new trend that she expects will take off. She noted that developers will gravitate to cities that offer the best incentives and Surrey — and to a smaller extent, Langley — is now on the leading edge.

“You can bet these municipalities who put out the welcome mat will get the business,” she said. “Whoever’s first is going to reap the benefits.”

Langley Mayor Peter Fassbender said his city has already taken steps to defer development charges and introduce density bonuses and has looked at similar strategies to what Surrey is proposing in terms of tax incentives.

“We’re taking down a lot of red tape to ensure developers can get their projects in and out of the ground as soon as possible,” Fassbender said.

“We’re looking at the entire suite of options that are available to use to make it as attractive as possible to developers.”

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson is also expected to outline his plans to “build the city into the creative economic capital of the world” in his inaugural address to the Vancouver Board of Trade today.

He couldn’t be reached Wednesday to discuss his plans, but Enser said he told the Urban Development Institute that he also wants to sit down with developers to “talk about getting new investment in the city.”

Meanwhile, Watts said she would like to see her strategy presented to Metro Vancouver to see if all municipalities would be willing to work together on a similar plan.

Besides the tax incentives, Watts said the city will partner with community organizations, including the Surrey Board of Trade, to create a business retention and expansion program aimed at helping small business, the “backbone of the city’s economy,” get through the crisis.

“Taken together, these changes are targeted at giving Surrey a distinctive edge in attracting business investment and new jobs both during and after these challenging economic times,” Watts said.

Fassbender agreed that all municipalities can benefit from increasing development in these tight times.

“Development is not a bad word in my view,” he said. “They’re the ones who are going to continue to drive the economic stimulus in our economy. We have to make it attractive and affordable to them.”

Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said Surrey might get a temporary advantage, but the move will pit municipalities against one another. He said his city already has some of the lowest development cost charges and has no plans to cut or defer them.

“We’ve been a popular place for development so we’re not in a position where we’re trying to encourage developers in what we see is a race to the bottom. It’s very discouraging,” he said.

“There’s going to be some resentment when developers who have already developed a bit in Surrey see the guys coming next getting a tax holiday.”

ksinoski@vancouversun.com

With files from Marisa Babic, Surrey Now
© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun


Source: Vancouver Sun (http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/Surrey+mayor+reveals+radical+plan+create+free+economic+zones/1378528/story.html)

[David]

wow thats very interesting.... sounds like a good idea

[jlousa]

She couldn't have picked a better time, with the current council in Vancouver she is bound to find an audience.

[Whalleyboy]

[quote]Langley businessman Ralph Berezan, who is planning a multimillion-dollar development near the King George SkyTrain station, said the tax incentives will be big help.

Although his project is expected to be developed over 20 years, he said the new incentives will allow him to build a commercial office tower on the site immediately.[/.quote]
that is freakin awesome just wonder what size this one is gonna be
besides the office tower i'd like to see him go through with the hotel part too cause central could use a nice tower hotel

make the other development proposal of a 9 story hotel for central look way under done

[metroXpress]

I'm not saying we can't i am saying we can and should i just said what i said cause i said something about surrey getting a whl team of its own in a different thread a while back and some people said theres not enough people in the lower mainland to support two teams....dont ask i have no clue what they were on

You mean a subforum for Surrey under the SSP Vancouver. Perhaps we will have to wait for a while to see that happening. :banana:

[PitBoss]

With all the focus from the municipal and provincial governments on building out Surrey city centre, it certainly seems like the place for some awsome investment opportunities. Big move for the GVRD (now Metro Vancouver) to officially designate it BC's second Metro Centre, not even Burnaby could achieve that with its Metrotown development. Also interesting to see that 46% of all available industrial land in the lower mainland is in Surrey. In my employment role I'm aware that some very major international corporations are looking at Surrey City Centre as their becoming their home and some of these will have 800+ employees....interesting times ahead, but given the commitment and land availability its probably a vision that will turn to reality.

[Delirium]

this was in yesterday's Surrey Now

This will be Surrey in 2075

It's an ambitious plan and if anyone can pull it off, Surrey's mayor can. But are families going to feel safe raising their children among all these high rises?

Beau Simpson, Surrey Now
Published: Friday, March 13, 2009

full article; http://www2.canada.com/surreynow/news/story.html?id=29b85344-d4c4-4dac-a54d-50be618864a0

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/282673bf-1acf-417f-ac0c-192ad0df93e0/surrey_sry_mar13.jpg
An artist’s rendering shows what Surrey is projected to look like in 2075.
Photograph by : Bing Thom Architects/For the Now
http://www2.canada.com/surreynow/news/story.html?id=29b85344-d4c4-4dac-a54d-50be618864a0

[giallo]

Nice rendering! Surrey has a solid vision. Good to see.

I'd have thought Surrey would look like that by 2030.

[Whalleyboy]

that story is such crap! i've lived in the core of surrey my whole life and i feel safe. heck alot safer then some other freakin place in lower mainland. Hell even my gf said she feels safer walking around surrey at night by herself then she does in delta or vancouver.

[Whalleyboy]

on another note it looks like there a lake beside the orginal central tower right were holland park is(also does anyone know whats going on there latley been to busy to check plus it cold and wet right now.)

also wheres are damn 70 story tower in that picture!

[Kodii]

that story is such crap! i've lived in the core of surrey my whole life and i feel safe. heck alot safer then some other freakin place in lower mainland. Hell even my gf said she feels safer walking around surrey at night by herself then she does in delta or vancouver.
The article expresses one view, you obviously have another, but that does not necessarily discredit the story. Depending on who you are you can feel safer in some areas than in others. I personally do not even feel safe in Abbotsford, but I am quite comfortable around Vancouver.

[Whalleyboy]

yeah guess you do have a point there

in other news that i just came across
apparently surreys still number one place to invest into in bc
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/growth+towns/1378942/story.html
Despite a recession, declining home prices and slowing real estate sales, there are still towns in British Columbia that have the fundamentals in place for future growth, according to a survey released Wednesday by a real estate investing network.

The survey, called Top B.C. Investment Towns, names Surrey as the best place to invest, based on its rapid growth, high renter population and easy access to transportation corridors.

Maple Ridge/Pitt Meadows takes the No. 2 spot. It is expected to be “the place to live for lifestyle” once TransLink and Gateway infrastructure projects are completed.

Abbotsford is in third place for its rapid growth and diversifying regional economy.

The survey is by the Real Estate Investment Network, a trademark-protected organization headed by real estate consultant Don Campbell.

The survey forecasts that the recession will last until mid-2010 and “will provide an excellent buying opportunity for property buyers who focus their research on the economic fundamentals of key regions of the province.”

In an interview, Campbell said he is taking a five-to-nine-year perspective in his look at the best regions in the province to buy real estate. The survey examines all major B.C. towns based on 12 factors — from economic development to demographics — and measures them against provincial averages.

“We try to identify regions that are going to have long-term stability, even during what we are going through right now; and where the short-term problems are,” Campbell said.

For the top three towns, “the big impact is going to be the Gateway Program,” he said.

The survey lists fundamentals considered key in each town in the top-10 list. For the top three, Surrey, Maple Ridge and Abbotsford, it is growth, transportation links and diversity.

The remaining seven are:

4. Kamloops: A vacation destination and transportation hub, Kamloops is attracting new business and industry. A decline in housing starts coupled with a low vacancy rate “will drive up demand for all types of properties in town.”

5. Dawson Creek and Fort St. John: Oil and gas exploration will have “dramatic effects” on the local economy. Dawson Creek’s fundamentals are its proximity to Alberta and natural gas resources. In Fort St. John, oil and gas will drive growth as long as prices remain profitable. However, energy price cycles will put pressure on housing, calling for an understanding of smaller markets and energy demand cycles.

6. Kelowna: Serving a trading area of 450,000 people, Kelowna is attracting business and recreation investment. Despite a slower real estate market, rental revenues are high, providing opportunities for investors.

7. Comox Valley: An armed forces base provides economic stability and an airport providing service to Calgary and Edmonton is attracting buyers who choose the region for its lifestyle. The slow real estate market means cash flow will be difficult to achieve, so choosing the right property counts.

8. Penticton: Tourism and agriculture are expected to continue growing. Strong population growth will drive demand for both rentals and home purchases.

9. Vancouver: The Olympics will increase the city’s business profile. The focus for investors should be on cash flow; speculators may wait a long time for prices to go up.

10. Prince George: Its diversity makes it better suited to weather the economic storm in the forest industry. Rail links through Prince Rupert to the Pacific ensure future growth.

Campbell said he is not advising investors try to buy at the bottom of the market; it’s too difficult to predict. Further, he said other factors, such as interest rates, need to be taken into account. As prices bottom out and start up, interest rates are also likely to go up, making monthly payments higher.

The validity of such surveys depends heavily on the different expectations people have about what is going to happen to the economy as a whole, said Tsur Somerville, director of the centre for urban economics and real estate at the University of B.C.’s Sauder School of Business.

He also said that small markets are not as liquid an investment as larger markets and can be more volatile.

“It’s not necessarily going to be the best thing for everybody and that’s a separate question from whether now is the best time to buy.”

“When you are investing in these towns you are investing in their future and in their growth,” he said.

According to its website, the Real Estate Investment Network is an exclusive membership program “dedicated to educating its members about how, where and when to buy Canadian real estate.”

[Kodii]

:previous: Definitely not a surprise there. I'm excited to see where Surrey is going. Not so sure it'll take until 2075 to look like that rendering posted earlier.

[raggedy13]

I'd have thought Surrey would look like that by 2030.

My initial impression as well. It'll probably be even more impressive than that rendering by 2030. It should have a few taller towers than what's shown at least.

[g35]

Everything about crime in that article sounds like anecdotal evidence. "I talked to three parents who said they fear for their lives in Surrey! That means Surrey is a dangerous place to live!"

And I wonder what the basis was for that rendering....did they just plop down some towers in Sketchup or is it based on proposals that have been received that run up to 2075 (highly unlikely, I think). Or maybe educated guesses on how things will turn out

[Pinion]

Everything about crime in that article sounds like useless anecdotal evidence. "I talked to three parents who said they fear for their lives in Surrey! That means Surrey is a dangerous place to live!"

And I wonder what the basis was for that rendering....did they just plop down some towers in Sketchup or is it based on proposals that have been received that run up to 2075 (highly unlikely, I think). Or maybe educated guesses on how things will turn out

This is like how when people in the 1940s tried to predict what the magical 21st century would look like. It's pointless to try to look that far ahead.

[PitBoss]

on another note it looks like there a lake beside the orginal central tower right were holland park is(also does anyone know whats going on there latley been to busy to check plus it cold and wet right now.)

also wheres are damn 70 story tower in that picture!

It seems that Bing Thom, who is designing the new city centre, has identified several old lakes that could still exist given the aqua system still in place that used to feed them. His plan is to regenerate these lakes in the new city centre build-out. That certainly is a highly commendable move and I'd love to see it happen.

I often walk around what used to be called Whalley at night and have done for years, I feel perfectly safe. Both my daughters are shortly moving into the Agenda development in Urban Village and I have no problem at all with that. They are flight attendants and so are several of their friends who are also moving in and none of them have any problems, so maybe the "Whalley" tag is not the same now as it used to be. Lots of their friends, girls in their 20's, from SFU Surrey see no problems either. Best test ground on the planet, 20-year old females. If they don't feel threatened, who the heck can.

I see that there are moves afoot to start the city core build-out shortly, so with Mayor Watts at the helm I think we're going to see some positive things happeneing. Hope so because as a long term Surrey resident I believe this city has a huge future.

[Whalleyboy]

I already new about the lake part i was just trying to point out the lake like area in the picture

and yeah i completely agree with you i about feeling safe about walking around surrey at night
heck before i had my current job i use to run through holland park and past central around 11pm at night once and a while and not once did i ever feel unsafe

and Watts is the perfect mayor to make surrey go from suburb to metro
I dont think we could have picked a better mayor

[SpongeG]

i've never felt unsafe in whalley

the people might wear EXCO instead of ECKO - lol and look a little scarey but thats all

same with east hastings I never feel scared or feel harrassed the same way I do walking down davie or even robson - the street kids are much more aggressive than the strung out people on east hastings

[Whalleyboy]

okay little to lazy to do it tonight but there is and ad for the urban village in the leader from Friday it shows a the model of central tower 2 and the plaza plus its a big clear picture

[vanman]

Here's a link to the image.
http://www.urbanvillageliving.com/03134366_Weststone_6x14_SRY.pdf

[Whalleyboy]

thanks makes life easier for me you doing it that way lol

also i gotta say makes it look like the tower beside central is there building lol

[twoNeurons]

Nice rendering! Surrey has a solid vision. Good to see.

I'd have thought Surrey would look like that by 2030.

It will. There is nothing currently planned to be built during the 2030-2075 period. :D

Seriously, though... that rendering is sooo... bs. WHERE'S THE FLYING CARS!!!

[metroXpress]

^ Ha....Can't wait to compare this rendering with reality in 2075....

[Whalleyboy]

yeah are grand kids will probably laugh at that render cause its will be pathetic cause it doesnt have any really huge towers like what will be around surrey by then=P

[metroXpress]

^ That would be a failure for Surrey..."Best place to invest in real estate properties..." HAHA

[twoNeurons]

It's likely true. Surrey has lower prices, while it has a solid vision, progressive council and excellent transportation connections coming down the pipe.

Investment is all about risk and seeing potential. Markets like Downtown and Burnaby may be great places to live, but investors look for future potential... diamonds in the rough, so to speak.

[Whalleyboy]

thats the exact same thing i've been telling to people i know true surrey may not be much now. but when your investing in something its not about the now its about whats gonna happen down the line

[Whalleyboy]

So i noticed this on the urban village website
Welcome to a bright new future in BC’s next great metro centre.

Welcome to Urban Village, the new way to live in the new heart of Downtown Surrey. WestStone Properties is building a one billion dollar, nine-acre master-planned community, adjacent to SFU, SkyTrain, the future Surrey City Hall, other civic amenities such as a new library, performing arts centre, new recreation centre and VANOC Games volunteer preparation centre.

That is why Surrey City Centre has been tagged as the number one place to invest in BC by the Real Estate Investment Network and Urban Village is in what is undisputedly the finest location. Early purchasers should see the best return so don’t miss out. Whether you are a student, a parent, a first time buyer or an investor, now is the time to secure your future in Urban Village, “The New Way to Live In The New Heart of Surrey.”
from http://www.urbanvillageliving.com/urbanvillage/index.html

[vansky]

today, i went to guilford.












it sucks.

i haven't seen such bad street designs in my entire life.

[Whalleyboy]

what are you talking about by street design?

[SpongeG]

the mall or the area?

the mall is very dated and the area is pretty bad - but traffic in surrey is bad - 88th ave was bumper to bumper yesterday for blocks and blocks - just due to volume

they need something done out there

[vansky]

what are you talking about by street design?

not street design, but more like landscape art, individual streets, trees and stuff, and the overall feel...just doesn't come with an aesthetic look, like the ones in vancouver.

[Whalleyboy]

surrey needs to get a real grid system for the roads

[Vancity]

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/media.canada.com/282673bf-1acf-417f-ac0c-192ad0df93e0/surrey_sry_mar13.jpg
An artist’s rendering shows what Surrey is projected to look like in 2075.
Photograph by : Bing Thom Architects/For the Now
http://www2.canada.com/surreynow/news/story.html?id=29b85344-d4c4-4dac-a54d-50be618864a0


wow. I'm not sure if I'll live that long to see that rendering come to fruition. haha..but it's very ambitious. I can see why Surrey has been pegged as the second downtown core for the metro area. Why can't Vancouver have an ambitious vision like that? We need a progressive council too!!

[metroXpress]

today, i went to guilford.












it sucks.

i haven't seen such bad street designs in my entire life.


I was there on Saturday...and I really want to see the reno going.
At least they can change the signs...they are ancient!

[CoryHolmes]

I was there on Saturday...and I really want to see the reno going.
At least they can change the signs...they are ancient!

I was there on Thursday and I want them to fix that freakin' parking lot! I can't believe the number of pot holes, pot pits, and pot chasms that are in there!

[metroXpress]

I was there on Thursday and I want them to fix that freakin' parking lot! I can't believe the number of pot holes, pot pits, and pot chasms that are in there!

Yes, and it's really hard to get out of that lot because it is always jam packed with cars!! They need to replan that lot.

[red-paladin]

Guilford mall reminds me of the Space ship Cygnus from the 1979 movie The Black Hole

[SpongeG]

its pretty gross - they need a real food court - it feels like a hallway with tables

hopefully the redo addresses that problem - plus i hate walking through that part you almost have to dodge the tables and its just oddly placed like an afterthought

they should knock down that gross section by sears and redo it as two levels and make it connect with the street to the west

[metroXpress]

^ yea, the food court does need some improvements. I wonder what happened to the reno project. All we didn't see any planning booklet expect a few renderings.

[jlousa]

There are a few "things" holding up the redevelopment, wouldn't make sense to proceed without knowing how those "things" turn out. I'm sure Leftcoaster will provide more insight when he's able to.

[LotusLand]

There are a few "things" holding up the redevelopment, wouldn't make sense to proceed without knowing how those "things" turn out. I'm sure Leftcoaster will provide more insight when he's able to.

By "things" I'm think skytrain expansion into the area. Am I correct? :)

[metroXpress]

By "things" I'm think skytrain expansion into the area. Am I correct? :)

Smart! I guess they will have to incorporate that into the plan. :yes:
SkyTrain should link directly to the mall..

[vansky]

I didn't even go inside the mall...it was already "quite impressive" on the outside...nevertheless the whole place was clean.

[metroXpress]

^ haha

[SpongeG]

Guildford was BC's largest mall until metropolis combined

[Whalleyboy]

guildford is a sad mall for its size...Its sad when my gf says shes fine with going to central over guildford
and a new food court is set as part of the reno

also the way the master plans for the reno of the mall never had any shown plans for an possible skytrain add ons

also guildford isnt part of the city centre so it really has nothing to do with this thread guildford is its own regional centre

[vansky]

seriously, i thought surrey was a war zone from the way other locals described it, but afterall, it was pretty dead. I had my knives and guns ready to battle off the criminals, but they never appeared, maybe they weren't ready to face a fully armed vancouverite on that day. maybe it was my delusion. surrey was clean.

i was on the skytrain, people looked no different from the souls in new westminster, they didn't shower much, and were seemingly ready to do some labour. as described by the map posted a few days ago here, this was the working class land, a land of blue collar heaven. The day was rainy, and windy, and i saw some nice condos in the sky. I suddenly realized, this is manitoba!!! i felt i was in manitoba again!! cruising myself around winniiipeg, but full of trees...too many tress, o no!!...the trees looked like they were ready to die soon, hopelessness overwhelmed me.

[metroXpress]

^ We can forward the discussion on Guildford mall in the other thread....

Vansky, suddenly realized, this is manitoba!!! i felt i was in manitoba again!! cruising myself around winniiipeg, but full of trees...too many tress, o no!!...the trees looked like they were ready to die soon, hopelessness overwhelmed me.

Wow~Great imagination here...this is Metro Vancouver.

[djmk]

Guildford was BC's largest mall until metropolis combined

I believe both pacific center and park royal are both bigger in terms of sqft and # of stores.

[98fb]

You know what the sad thing is, Vancouver doesn't have any shopping mecca's of its own. Wasn't it Victoria Beckhmam that talked down on Vancouver and its POS pacific center.

[NetMapel]

That is why I would totally support connecting Vancouver Centre and Pacific centre together to create a bigger mall. Furthermore, Sears should be torned down and be replaced by a very tall office towers which has retail spaces at its basement levels ala BMO tower in Toronto.

[nickinacan]

I believe both pacific center and park royal are both bigger in terms of sqft and # of stores.

It was actually the second biggest mall in terms of retail square footage at the time. I believe it was just behind one of the Metrotown malls, most likely Metrotown Centre. Several other malls have received renovations and expansions, except for Guildford, which it's parent company, Ivanhoe Cambridge, has left to rot. Oddly enough, this is the same company that owns Metropolis @ Metrotown, which has received major renovations and is currently building a new office tower. Many things may have stalled the renovation/expansion, like the just announced Skytrain expansion study, or possibly even a halt to spending due to the state of the economy.

But anyways, this is completely off topic from the thread. Surrey City Centre only!

[LeftCoaster]

That is why I would totally support connecting Vancouver Centre and Pacific centre together to create a bigger mall. Furthermore, Sears should be torned down and be replaced by a very tall office towers which has retail spaces at its basement levels ala BMO tower in Toronto.

It's in the works, well everything but the very tall aspect.

It was actually the second biggest mall in terms of retail square footage at the time. I believe it was just behind one of the Metrotown malls, most likely Metrotown Centre. Several other malls have received renovations and expansions, except for Guildford, which it's parent company, Ivanhoe Cambridge, has left to rot. Oddly enough, this is the same company that owns Metropolis @ Metrotown, which has received major renovations and is currently building a new office tower. Many things may have stalled the renovation/expansion, like the just announced Skytrain expansion study, or possibly even a halt to spending due to the state of the economy.

But anyways, this is completely off topic from the thread. Surrey City Centre only!

Ivanhoe has been trying to renovate Guilford for ages, but as you pointed out things keep popping up. I'd like to say its going ahead soon, as all signs are pointing to that happening, but with this project you never know what will come up. One of the biggest stumbling blocks so far has been wal-mart who has been very uncooperative regarding the renovation/expansion, but they finally seem to be in agreement and on-board.

[SpongeG]

they would have shut down i guess for a while?

[metroXpress]

^ I don't think Wal Mart would ever do that....

[SpongeG]

from the plans though it looks like they are building the store on the same spot as the current spot - it will just be one level and bigger than it is now

[Whalleyboy]

this conversation would have better suited the surrey general updates thread lol

but anyways yeah guildford walmart will nto shut down even though there are three walmarts in surrey not once have i ever seen any of them dead or even slow enough to shut down for awhile

[SpongeG]

but how can they do the guildford expansion/reno without it shutting down?

[Whalleyboy]

Its being built brand new basicly beside where the current one is
the whole mall is actually being made bigger
check out the actual thread for it you cna see a little better

[metroXpress]

^ Sure..let's stop and head over to that one.

[cornholio]

Am I the only one here who actually likes Guildford mall the way it is.
I used to live next door to it on 150th like 10 years ago and I always thought it was a nice mall, it is different and has a very organic feel to it.

Personally I like it.

[Whalleyboy]

i feel like i'm in a warehouse when i am in it
i want to reply to that in the guildford thread but the convo is here=(

[LeftCoaster]

Am I the only one here who actually likes Guildford mall the way it is.

Yes.

Yes you are.