[Beltliner]

All right, folks--you just knew this conversation was going to start up again at some point, didn't you? :P

The Vancouver Whitecaps (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090319.BCSOCCER19/TPStory/National) are joining the Portland Timbers (http://goal.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/portland-latest-to-join-mls/) in Major League Soccer in 2011, as you probably already know. The Montreal Impact (http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Whitecaps+admission+buoys+Impact/1408245/story.html) is also contemplating its own promotion in the fullness of time on the strength of its performance on the field and at the gate in United Soccer Leagues' First Division. Even Hamilton (http://www.tsn.ca/soccer/story/?id=268484&lid=headline&lpos=secStory_soccer) and Ottawa (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/2009/03/20/8829606-cp.html) are dreaming, in varying shades of Technicolor, about professional soccer teams of their very own.

So the obvious question is simple, really--can pro soccer be viable in Calgary? Should the food-service contractors start stocking up on Bovril [WARNING: NSFW] (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JjVg0Sbsh4)? Or should we look forward to another round of knockdown prices on horse puckey and potato salad?

FWIW, here's my take on the issue:

Make the Calgary Boomers Kickers Strikers Storm Mustangs United Whatevers part of a six-to-eight-team USL-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL-2)-grade circuit based in Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan. The travel costs for all of the teams would at least be halfway reasonable, and with relatively affordable franchise fees and with operating bugets maxing out at a million dollars per team per season (http://www.uslsoccer.com/aboutusl/franchise/123541.html), a breakeven attendance in the 1,500-to-2,000-per-game range (http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=144) would not be out of the question. Find the right intimate venue for each side in the league; find bigger-league teams in the respective cities (http://stampeders.com/) that will cross-sell and promote your tickets (http://www.capsbaseball.ca/web/guest); find fans who enjoy the game, and treat them like gold so that they will be fruitful and multiply.

So how would this Western League look? Try this alignment on for size, folks:


Calgary Boomers Kickers Strikers Storm Mustangs United Whatevers; home matches at Foothills Athletic Park (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/recreation/athletic_park_maps/foothills.pdf)
Edmonton Drillers Brickmen Drillers Aviators FC Drillers Whatevers; home matches at Foote Field (http://www.physedandrec.ualberta.ca/footefield.cfm)
Victoria Highlanders (http://www.victoriahighlandersfc.com/) (PDL); home matches at City Centre Stadium (http://www.victoriahighlandersfc.com/stadium.php), Langford
Abbotsford Harriers; home matches at Rotary Stadium (http://www.abbotsford.ca/Page19.aspx)
Kelowna Stompers; home matches at Apple Bowl (http://www.kelowna.ca/CM/page1134.aspx)
Saskatoon Sockers; home matches at Gordie Howe Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordie_Howe_Bowl)
Regina Rowdies; home matches at Taylor Field (http://football.ballparks.com/CFL/Saskatchewan/) until something smaller comes along


Two home games and two away games for each team works out to a 24-game season altogether for each side.

So that's my $0.02 to start the discussion. Looking forward to seeing what ideas come out of the debate.

[wild wild west]

I say yes...our ethnically diverse population has plenty of soccer fans among us, and as a fast-growing urban area the demographics are only going to get better!

[Wooster]

I think so, yes. But I don't think Calgary will bid for a franchise in MLS until it is quite a bit bigger than it is today. Cities like Vancouver, and Portalnd and all the cities in the league are at least twice as big as Calgary is.

[SHOFEAR]

Hahahaha. no.

and thats a good thing.

[Riise]

Can it? Yes.
Is it? No.

Northern North America has got a lot of work left before the game will be viable on a professional level. To keep it brief, we have to start small and grow this game from the ground up. There is a lot of potential, a lot!

[jeffwhit]

No,

I don't think Calgarians are interested in minor league sports, and until we're big enough to support an MLS team, that's all we'll get.

I went to plenty of Storm games, and it was just depressing, both the setting, and the level of soccer. I was a student at Indiana when they were by far the best team in the NCAA, and A League soccer is just so many levels below that.

[SHOFEAR]

How do professional teams decide which mom is going to bring the bowl of oranges?

[skrish]

I think it can. What it's going to come down to is proper ownership and marketing (Brett Wilson I hope your reading this). If a lacrosse team can be a viable part of the sporting landscape here in Calgary, then there is no reason why Soccer can't succeed, especially when you look at the amount of registered players within the city.

[Calgarian]

I don't think there is a market for soccer here, but you never know.

[Innersoul1]

Can it? Yes.
Is it? No.

Northern North America has got a lot of work left before the game will be viable on a professional level. To keep it brief, we have to start small and grow this game from the ground up. There is a lot of potential, a lot!

Every time this topic comes up Riise and I totally agree. Before we can even have any type of viable professional/semi-professional soccer in this city we need the infrastructure.

If you look at the list of stadia that Beltline put together you can see that there are numerous cities that have a good start as far as their stadiums go. MacMahon, NEVER. Foothills, PLEASE NO. The fact of the matter is that if we have soccer in Calgary there NEEDS to be a soccer specific stadium. Any field with a running track around it seperates the fans from the pitch, which inherently creates a division between the fans and players. This will never work!

We need to start small and grow the game. The vision for Langford's city stadium is what we need. Something small where the stands can be expanded. I have always been a fan of two pitches in Calgary. One could work, one never will. Let's start with the latter, Broadview Park along Memorial Drive would be perfect if those houses were not on the north side. Upgrade the field to a quality pitch and add stands along the north side. This would make the fans face south when they take in a match making it most enjoyable. Plus, the view of downtown and the river makes for a great venue. The other option that I like is the new SAIT field over to of the new parkade. If this field is done correctly with a nice stand and pitch it would be a glorious venue with a view of downtown.

Kudos to Van-city for getting an MLS franchise. I know that the plan is to renovate BC place and have the whitecaps play there but I still feel that it is much too large for the normal crowds that the Whitecaps garner. At the end of the day soccer is HUGE on the coast and I hope that the Vancouver fans prove me wrong. I still think that a soccer specific stadium is the way to go!

[Wooster]

The firepark site near Max-bell station would be a great eventual MLS stadium location. Build a horseshoe shaped stadium, with the open side providing a nice vista down toward downtown and the mountains. Start with 20-25 000 seats and go from there.

I think Calgary will have the right population and demographics in about 15-20 years to easily be able to support pro soccer.

[frinkprof]

Soccer sucks.

[Beltliner]

If you look at the list of stadia that Beltline put together you can see that there are numerous cities that have a good start as far as their stadiums go. MacMahon, NEVER. Foothills, PLEASE NO. The fact of the matter is that if we have soccer in Calgary there NEEDS to be a soccer specific stadium. Any field with a running track around it seperates the fans from the pitch, which inherently creates a division between the fans and players. This will never work!

What I was contemplating was a new fieldhouse at Foothills Athletic Park with back-to-back stands--track and field on the east side, soccer on the west. Fifteen rows goal-to-goal gives you 3,000 seats give or take on each side, and you could conceivably put in some berms round the soccer pitch to lay the foundation for an 11,000-seater lower bowl.

[Distill3d]

I don't think there is a market for soccer here, but you never know.

i don't think thats the problem with soccer in Calgary. there is a large market for it, it'll just never be marketed properly.

Calgary has gone through a few pro soccer teams. Mark McLoughlin was the president and GM of one of them during his last few years with the Stampeders. the Storm or the Force. something like that. they played at Foothills Athletic Park beside Burns Stadium.

[Riise]

Make the Calgary Boomers Kickers Strikers Storm Mustangs United Whatevers part of a six-to-eight-team USL-2 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USL-2)-grade circuit based in Alberta, BC, and Saskatchewan. The travel costs for all of the teams would at least be halfway reasonable, and with relatively affordable franchise fees and with operating bugets maxing out at a million dollars per team per season (http://www.uslsoccer.com/aboutusl/franchise/123541.html), a breakeven attendance in the 1,500-to-2,000-per-game range (http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=144) would not be out of the question. Find the right intimate venue for each side in the league; find bigger-league teams in the respective cities (http://stampeders.com/) that will cross-sell and promote your tickets (http://www.capsbaseball.ca/web/guest); find fans who enjoy the game, and treat them like gold so that they will be fruitful and multiply.

I did not mention this the other night but you have the right idea when it comes to the logistics of any sort of footy league that will be viable on this side of the Atlantic; one that acknowledges the local demographics and importance of rivalries/derbies. A couple of summers back when United was touring America, Sir Alex Ferguson was asked to give his opinion on the development of the game stateside. He said that we would need to reconfigure the league model used in England/Europe to reflect the fact that Canada and America are both huge yet not very dense countries where the distances between cities are very large. Sir Alex stated that any league that wants to be successful would have to lower both the financial and physical costs of travel and establish clubs in a fashion that would allow strong rivalries to flourish. Instead of having one league he recommended regional leagues, however, I can’t remember if he said that two professional leagues would suffice (one east and one west) or if they would need to be even more regionalized.

Anyway, I think you’re spot on by minimizing travel costs and making clubs affordable, as well as, easily manageable. My preference would be an Alberta PDL Division where Calgary and Edmonton would have two clubs and every town in the Province that has a WHL team would have one.



No,

I don't think Calgarians are interested in minor league sports, and until we're big enough to support an MLS team, that's all we'll get.

I went to plenty of Storm games, and it was just depressing, both the setting, and the level of soccer. I was a student at Indiana when they were by far the best team in the NCAA, and A League soccer is just so many levels below that.

Are you talking about the PDL Storm or A-League Storm? I thought the PDL Storm was a bit of a success and the only thing depressing was Foothills Park. Calgarians as a whole are not interested in minor league sports but each sport in the City has a group of fans/supporters that are interested. With the PDL Storm this group was showing up consistently and large enough to sustain the club. Not only was this groups consistent, I thought this core of the Storm’s fan base was growing. Unfortunately, the Storm prematurely made the jump to the A-League where their on-field success dried up and they did not have a large enough fan base established that could sustain the club.



Every time this topic comes up Riise and I totally agree. Before we can even have any type of viable professional/semi-professional soccer in this city we need the infrastructure.

If you look at the list of stadia that Beltline put together you can see that there are numerous cities that have a good start as far as their stadiums go. MacMahon, NEVER. Foothills, PLEASE NO. The fact of the matter is that if we have soccer in Calgary there NEEDS to be a soccer specific stadium. Any field with a running track around it seperates the fans from the pitch, which inherently creates a division between the fans and players. This will never work!

We need to start small and grow the game. The vision for Langford's city stadium is what we need. Something small where the stands can be expanded.

Like I said above, Foothills was/is depressing. Although you could argue that the atmosphere and setting is especially important in footy, if you gave any sport its equivalent to Foothills it would lead to failure. While amateur leagues don’t need World Class facilities, they do need to maintain some professionalism and be given adequate facilities.

I’d love to see the City, Province, and some private investment contribute to an 8,000 seat stadium. Like it has been suggested here, it would have an East and West stand that could hold 3k each. The North and South stands would have the ability to seat 1k each and be converted to terraces that could hold 2k each. This set up would provide for numerous configurations and an expandable capacity of 10k if two stands are used solely as terraces. Location? Highbury style; in the middle of a neighbourhood and close to transit. My choice would be the corner Banff Trail and 16th as part of the new TOD redevelopment.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Hahahaha. no.

and thats a good thing.

agreed

[jeffwhit]

I referring to the A-League Storm, Riise.

[Riise]

I referring to the A-League Storm, Riise.

Okey dokey! Yeah, that outfit of the Storm was pretty depressing. I was rather busy during that experiment and did not have the chance to attend many matches. However, I did have season tix for the Stangs at McMahon. It was better than Foothills but the cavernous feeling was quite depressing.

[jeffwhit]

You know what would be great, something like Craven Cottage's Johnny Haynes Stand on the S bank of the river. Something with real atmosphere to help pique the interest of the public.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/113/250695498_50705e3640.jpg?v=0

[Riise]

You know what would be great, something like Craven Cottage's Johnny Haynes Stand on the S bank of the river. Something with real atmosphere to help pique the interest of the public.

Funny that you bring up Craven Cottage. Last night while watching the United/Fulham match review on FSR I started analysing the stand mainly trying to guess how many rows it contained. I like the traditional look of the main stands and think it would be quite interesting to see a modern take on it. My personal favourite still remains Nene Park, a slightly larger one would be perfect for Calgary.


http://www.conferencegrounds.co.uk/rushden30.jpg