[LMich]

It's always been asked, and often been proposed by folks without the means, but it appears that there is a Detroit businessman seriously looking to assemble some of the city's empty land to create the city's first full-scale farm on the eastside. It's still a very controversial idea within the city.



http://www.freep.com/uploads/images/2009/04/farming-grafic.jpg

Farm could make Detroit hot spot for fresh foods (http://www.freep.com/article/20090402/BUSINESS04/904020370/Vacant+city+land+eyed+for+farms)

BY JOHN GALLAGHER • FREE PRESS BUSINESS WRITER • April 2, 2009

Detroit could become a center of locally grown food and put large swaths of vacant land back on tax rolls under a proposal to create the city's first large commercial farm.

Businessman John Hantz of Detroit, in an exclusive interview with the Free Press, unveiled his plans for Hantz Farms -- a concept that would convert hundreds, even thousands, of vacant parcels in the city into urban agriculture.

Offering jobs and an ability to produce fresh fruits and vegetables locally, Hantz Farms could help Detroit "become a destination for fresh, local and natural foods and become a major part of the green movement," Hantz said.

Detroit already is home to hundreds of smaller community gardens. But Hantz's proposal is the first to envision large-scale commercial farming.

He said he could grow everything from Christmas trees to fruits and vegetables, with amenities such as a cider mill or horseback riding available.

With an estimated 40 square miles of vacant parcels, Detroit offers many sites where, in theory, a big farm operation might work. Hantz, a resident of Detroit's Indian Village district, is tentatively looking at a blighted area near Eastern Market, but exact boundaries would depend on whether he wins the city's cooperation.

A look at the plan

George Jackson, the city's chief development officer and president of the Detroit Economic Growth Corp., said he is evaluating Hantz's proposal.

"I'm going to look at this as I would any development deal," Jackson said.

Land assemblage remains a key question. Hantz owns several parcels in the city, but the vast majority of the acreage he needs for his project is still either owned by private parties or is tax-foreclosed land owned by the city, county and state.

Hantz envisions the city, county and state donating the land to his project or selling it at a nominal cost. The payback would come in increased tax revenues once the farm is up and running.

Hantz is chief executive of Hantz Group, a network of financial services firms based in Southfield.

He also owns the Detroit Ignition of the Xtreme Soccer League.

Vacant land solution?

Matt Allen, onetime press secretary to former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, manages the project as senior vice president of Hantz Farms.

Allen said Hantz Farms is a good solution for vacant land.

"What is it worth to the city just sitting there? Nothing," he said. "Part of the approach to this is that, the larger this becomes, the benefit gets greater and greater faster."

Even as a concept, the idea is controversial.

Jeffrey Armstrong, dean of the Michigan State University College of Agriculture and Natural Resources, called Hantz Farms "a challenging and exciting opportunity."

But Rebecca Salminen Witt, president of the nonprofit Greening of Detroit, said small community plots do more good for Detroiters, helping knit communities together.

"Folks are hoping for, wishing for, looking for a silver bullet to the vast expanses of vacant space that we see in the city," Witt said. "And because of that, they want to say, 'Great, we'll just plunk a couple-of-hundred-acre growing operations here and there.' "

Allen responded that there ought to be a place for both community gardens and commercial farms in Detroit.

"There's more than enough land to go around," he said.

Contact JOHN GALLAGHER: 313-222-5173 or gallagher@freepress.com

[Evergrey]

the fact that about half of this farm is devoted to christmas trees seems a little weird... that doesn't seem like it would be hugely beneficial to the surrounding community

[hudkina]

It seems more of a tourist attraction, but I guess that's the point.

BTW, you don't think people need Christmas trees?;)

[brickell]

There's a reason farms are in the boonies. To set up something as a hobby farm or learning center is one thing but it sounds like they want to actually grow stuff. If the land is cheap enough, maybe they can get it to work, but I have a hard time seeing how this would be good for the city.

[10023]

I don't think I'd eat anything grown in Detroit's soil.

[mrskyline]

This sounds like a great idea that could spread to other cities. I know that in New York they have some small neighborhood gardens.

[alexjon]

There are several farms Downriver within cities and towns that produce and sell foodstuffs alongside their learning facilities. (Heritage Park used to be, but it looks like the Geese put the kibosh on that)

And considering Detroit's layout was largely due to farmlands within the city, it's fitting.

[llamaorama]

Probably still more viable then ever filling those blocks back up with houses, right?

[PA Pride]

This might be similar to what it will look like, minus the palm trees.
Caracas:
http://www.cityfarmer.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/caracas.jpg

Source: http://www.cityfarmer.info/

[10023]

All I know is that every time there's a construction project in New York or Chicago, they spend months during soil remediation work to remove whatever radioactive or otherwise toxic substances they find in the soil. Pass.

[ardecila]

the fact that about half of this farm is devoted to christmas trees seems a little weird... that doesn't seem like it would be hugely beneficial to the surrounding community

When trees are cut down out in the middle of nowhere and then trucked into the cities for people to use, those trucks burn large amounts of fuel transporting the trees. By growing them in the central city on vacant and worthless land, it saves large amounts of CO2 emissions and fuel costs.

Another big reason is probably the soil-quality issue. Fruits and vegetables grown here might have a limited appeal because people could be skeptical of their safety, at least until their safety is proven after a few years and lab tests. Christmas trees, because they aren't an edible crop, are a profitable enterprise that won't repulse many buyers.

[Steve de Ohio]

[...] but I have a hard time seeing how this would be good for the city.

Care to elaborate? Detroit has plenty of land to spare and I don't think anyone really believes they're gonna get back up to 2 million anytime soon. Why not build a farm on empty land?

BTW, I'm really just asking for clarification, not attacking; I try to be snark-free in my posts :)

[brickell]

Mainly because plants and trees just sit there. They don't produce many jobs. A working farm doesn't usually provide for recreational activities. They stink. If it's not the pesticides it's the orangic manure. I'd imagine the whole thing will be fenced off from the community making it no different than a big factory in terms of urban friendlieness. Again, if set up correctly as an educational thing or community thing and in the right spot it could be interesting but as a true working farm...

And really, a spot for fresh food? I don't think that's a driving force for many people but if it is, there's plenty of other options. California and Florida in particular offer year round fresh fruit and vegetables that's easily accessible to their urban areas.

[Steve de Ohio]

I agree that a full-scale agricultural set-up might interrupt the "urban friendliness" of a city, but Detroit has rather large swaths of land that already do that and aren't going anytime soon. I mean, Detroit's city limit are drawn to contain a population over twice as large as it is now; I doubt that there is going to be this miraculous turn-around that will render all those empty lots in demand.

I think a city is such a desperate situation as Detroit, which has tried just about everything to turn the city around, would be a good place to try out this approach. It may be interesting to see if this could work or not. They've got the room. Also, the landscape of Detroit might be able to use an interruption or two. Think about it; everyone goes crazy for the hills in Cincinnati/Pittsburgh because they focus development, create density, etc. It stands to reason that a farm smack-dab in the middle of town may be able to do the same. Maybe not.

My thoughts are that we should try it and see before we denounce it as a failed/flawed concept. It's clear that the status quo isn't working for Detroit, why not try something new? Traditional approaches clearly are not working there.

[Steve de Ohio]

Oh, and for the record, not all farms smell; livestock smells. I didn't notice a large livestock component to this plan. Farms where only crops are grown don't smell any different than a big front yard.

Furthermore, on the subject of smell, it was during the heyday of industrial output that Detroit peaked in population. Ever lived next to a car factory/steel mill? Those smell TERRIBLE. People didn't seem to mind building whole cities-worth of dense urban development around those....

Also if living near agricultural land were a problem, suburbanization would have never occurred in most of the United States.

[DecoJim]

All I know is that every time there's a construction project in New York or Chicago, they spend months during soil remediation work to remove whatever radioactive or otherwise toxic substances they find in the soil. Pass.
How many cases of radioactive substances have they found in NY?

Obviously one would have to look at the previous land use and if necessary do some soil testing. You may have the impression that Detroit was wall to wall factories once but there are plenty of areas were the only land use from 1701 to present was 1) wilderness to 2) farm to 3) residential to 4) abandoned. Many of the factories were in certain areas and many still stand even if they are not in use.

I am in favor of any idea that makes economic sense for Detroit. The Hantz Farm could sell produce locally or at Eastern Market.

[holladay]

Detroit could become a new hot spot for the organic hipster community. This would couple and build on the momentum of its reputation as a growing 'edgy' artist enclave. Suddenly, when people are asked what they do, they'll start replying, "I'm a Detroit farmer/visual artist." :haha:

[brickell]

My thoughts are that we should try it and see before we denounce it as a failed/flawed concept. It's clear that the status quo isn't working for Detroit, why not try something new? Traditional approaches clearly are not working there.


Hey, I'm all for that, especially if it's coming from the private sector. In my experience, farms don't make for good neighbors, but if Detroit wants to try it, good luck.

[mhays]

I'm a fan of this idea as discussed over the years.

Soil quality doesn't seem like a big issue, though I don't claim any knowledge. I'd worry more about chemical runoff FROM the farm than chemicals in the vegetables. Hopefully it's organic.

Growing food in a place with a large poor population sounds like a recipe for large-scale theft. A pea patch near where I live (edge of Downtown Seattle) has this problem. Perhaps a fence and a night security guard would work.

[Via Chicago]

All I know is that every time there's a construction project in New York or Chicago, they spend months during soil remediation work to remove whatever radioactive or otherwise toxic substances they find in the soil. Pass.

come on. are you telling me you dont know people who have gardens in their backyards? they're not planting on top of a nuclear waste dump...

[holladay]

Growing food in a place with a large poor population sounds like a recipe for large-scale theft. A pea patch near where I live (edge of Downtown Seattle) has this problem. Perhaps a fence and a night security guard would work.

Unfortunately, fences don't make for good neighbors.

[mind field]

This is an excellent idea. Detroit HAS to do SOMETHING. The city has collapsed and any hope for it to become a viable entity is questionable. I marvel at anyone who would prefer a vacant field strewn with trash or even abandon, rotting structures occupying city land over something that is productive...even if it isn't traditionally urban. I just read that Michigan is still bleeding residents at astounding rates. Focusing on the core of the city, and certain corridors for quality, high density development, while reverting unused or underused land to more productive uses is really what the city needs.

And if in some as of now unimaginable future in which the city of Detroit again prospers and becomes a thriving magnet for people and jobs, these farms can easily be converted to more traditional urban uses.

[krudmonk]

The reliance upon Christmas trees is probably climate-driven.

[hudkina]

The reliance upon Christmas trees is probably climate-driven.

How so? Michigan has a diverse agricultural industry. In fact it's 2nd only to California in the diversity of its agricultural products. It produces everything from potatoes to cherries to corn to apples to soy beans, cows, etc.

[hauntedheadnc]

I don't really see a down side to this. It's not as though Detroit has the money or the desire to turn all of this land into parkland, and it's not as though people are going to be flocking to the city at this time -- although hopefully they will in the future. Why not grow some food there? How many times have I heard or read that the actual City of Detroit doesn't even have a supermarket within its limits?

Seems like it's either farming or letting it return to wilderness, which might be nice, but farming seems like it might do more to clean up blighted fields.

[LMich]

I'm not sure where I come down on the issue, but the concern about the soil is a bit short-sighted. At worst, soil would have to be remediated and replaced with fresh soil. In fact, that's probably going to be the case, regardless. So, I'm not so sure how much of an actual concern that would be.

So, you've got an estimated 40 square miles of land with little hope of putting a significant dent in it with residential construction in the foreseeable future. You only really have a few options. 1. Leave it feral, which makes it a dumping ground, which has been the case for many years now, which also increases crime (bodies have been dumped in overgrown lots to rot for months). 2. Clean it up and let it revert back to nature, which still leaves it open as a dumping ground and a haven to deal in other illegal activities. 3. Make more parks, with the problem being that the city can't even maintain the existing parklands it has. Or, 3. find other creative reuses such as agriculture, which has issues of its own, but is certainly more productive and safe for the citizens than the other options.

[hudkina]

How many times have I heard or read that the actual City of Detroit doesn't even have a supermarket within its limits?

That's not even remotely true. Do you honestly think a city of 915,000 people could exist without a single supermarket? The story behind that "urban legend" is that a few years ago A&P decided to close its Farmer Jack stores in the Detroit region, including two (I think) in the city. The media (who long ago decided that selling ads was more important than telling the news) picked up the fact that the last of the large chain groceries stores had closed in the city and that the city was left without a large-chain grocery.

What they didn't report is that the city has hundreds of smaller grocery stores throughout the city and I believe at least one of those former Farmer Jack stores was converted into a new locally owned grocery store. While it is true that in some of the poorest neighborhoods, access to a decent market (especially with fresh fruits and vegetables) is limited, it's not as if they don't exist in the city...

The whole point of an urban farm like this is that it would give inner-city residents who might not otherwise have access to fresh produce a local source.

[Evergrey]

Michigan has a diverse agricultural industry. In fact it's 2nd only to California in the diversity of its agricultural products.

link?

[LMich]

link?

Link (http://www.greeningofthegreatlakes.com/agriculture/agriculture.php), but it's repeated all over the place. The measurement is on commercially viable produce commodities, and apparently, Michigan is second after California.

And, Hud, the oft told story specifically uses the word supermarket. When most people use the term they are talking about supermarkets they are usually talking about large chains. Regardless of how one defines what a supermarket is, and I don't think it's that ambiguous a term, the general point is that Detroit proper is severly lacking in quality supermarkets, and that is true.

[Abner]

Michigan can support a surprisingly wide variety of agricultural products largely because western Michigan enjoys the good soil and precipitation of the rest of the Midwest while being insulated from temperature extremes by Lake Michigan and the heavy snow it produces. They can grow more cold-intolerant things like peaches and apricots. I don't know whether these same factors exist on the other side of the state, in Detroit, although obviously nobody's talking about growing fruit there anyway.

[mhays]

I'd guess the West Coast would be #1, #2, and #3 in agricultural diversity. Every state has weather and geographic differences more than many (most?) entire countries. Washington for example has about (vague recollection) a 15-1 ratio from rainiest areas to driest. We're big in apples, tulips, wheat, wine grapes, hops, potatoes...basically anything that doesn't need year-round warmth. Desert moonscapes to rain forest.

[LMich]

Michigan can support a surprisingly wide variety of agricultural products largely because western Michigan enjoys the good soil and precipitation of the rest of the Midwest while being insulated from temperature extremes by Lake Michigan and the heavy snow it produces. They can grow more cold-intolerant things like peaches and apricots. I don't know whether these same factors exist on the other side of the state, in Detroit, although obviously nobody's talking about growing fruit there anyway.

Yeah, most of the diversity comes from the westside along the lake, particularly up near Traverse City/Old Mission Peninsula. It's where most of the state's cherries are grown and where most of the vineyards are:

Old Mission Peninsula:

Vineyards

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3291/2979566675_8de13e6a0d_b.jpg
Mario Q. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/marioq/2979566675/sizes/l/in/set-72157608401587981/)

Cherry Orchards

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2186127596_fa6f9525b1_b.jpg
hullaballo2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/hullaballoo2/2186127596/sizes/l/)

[hudkina]

The East side of the state is generally more urbanized, but you'll still find a lot of soy bean farms in the midst of newer suburban developments. The Thumb Region is a major agricultural area as well as the Monroe, Lenawee and Hillsdale Counties.

[JMancuso]

actually, the trend in urban farming is starting increase as people demand more locally grown food as well as provide a more sustainable agriculture base. not too mention savings from transport costs. detroit is in a unique position to market itself as a testing ground for other major cities that would otherwise not test the waters themselves due to unwanted risks in land/ real estate use.

[hauntedheadnc]

And, Hud, the oft told story specifically uses the word supermarket. When most people use the term they are talking about supermarkets they are usually talking about large chains. Regardless of how one defines what a supermarket is, and I don't think it's that ambiguous a term, the general point is that Detroit proper is severly lacking in quality supermarkets, and that is true.

Expanding on your statement to hudkina, another general point is that, lacking in supermarkets, the population of Detroit is overly dependent on overpriced corner stores and convenience stores that don't stock a good selection of products at all, much less nutritious produce and healthy choices for meats or breads. A move toward serious urban farming could counteract that, which would benefit the entire city as it would make gains on the public health front.

And to hudkina, no I am not so stupid as to think a city of 915,000 subsists on fast food and malt liquor. I am well aware there are places where one can purchase food in Detroit. However, in many neighborhoods, you've only got those overpriced convenience stores with their small selection of low-quality, low-nutrition food. That was my only point.

[brickell]

Maybe I'm wrong here, but a lot of this seems very pie in the sky. It's not like people can't get in and out of Detroit. I'm sure people in the suburbs have no problems getting fresh food in the markets and it's got nothing to do with how close they are to a farm. It's about who will pay the premium for it. How will having a farm next door affect the supermarket situation? Unless their operating as a non-profit and promise that all food will go to local sources, I don't see it. Even then, we're talking some sugar beets and cucumbers?

It's an interesting concept but it's not a panacea for Detroit's economic problems.

[Abner]

I'd guess the West Coast would be #1, #2, and #3 in agricultural diversity. Every state has weather and geographic differences more than many (most?) entire countries. Washington for example has about (vague recollection) a 15-1 ratio from rainiest areas to driest. We're big in apples, tulips, wheat, wine grapes, hops, potatoes...basically anything that doesn't need year-round warmth. Desert moonscapes to rain forest.

Well, unless you can find something that contradicts the link above, that's apparently not the case. It might be because so much land in Washington and Oregon is protected and because those states have larger farms that tend to practice monoculture (massive Washington apple orchards, Oregon dairies in the Willamette Valley, etc.). But yeah, those states would have been my next guess for agricultural diversity, although it's possible that Texas might surpass them.

[Exodus]

I don't think I'd eat anything grown in Detroit's soil.My uncle bought 4 lots around him and planted an orchard and a garden, and his fruit and veggies are quite tasty:)

[krudmonk]

How so? Michigan has a diverse agricultural industry. In fact it's 2nd only to California in the diversity of its agricultural products. It produces everything from potatoes to cherries to corn to apples to soy beans, cows, etc.
Yeah, but what's there to grow in winter?

[alexjon]

This might be similar to what it will look like, minus the palm trees.
Caracas:
http://www.cityfarmer.info/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/caracas.jpg

Source: http://www.cityfarmer.info/

Palm Trees are NOT optional!

Turn Detroit into Miami North!

[Evergrey]

Yeah, but what's there to grow in winter?

while nothing may "grow" in winter... many plants require a certain amount of winter cold to undergo the process of vernalization... which initiates the flowering process

[kwoldtimer]

The idea of a working farm in the middle of a large city seems surprising, but the Central Experimental Farm was established in Ottawa, Canada over a century ago and today its Arboretum, Agricultural Museum and fields are considered a jewel of the nation's capital. Check it out at www.friendsofthefarm.ca :tup:

If memory serves, there is an experimental farm within the boundaries of Pretoria, South Africa as well (must have been a British colonial kind of thing!)

[Evergrey]

According to the National Christmas Tree Association, one acre of Christmas trees produces the daily oxygen requirement for 18 people! So I guess there are many benefits for Detroiters created by this urban Christmas tree farm.

[hudkina]

Yeah, but what's there to grow in winter?

Winter is only three months long, with the growing season generally occuring between April and November. And last time I checked livestock doesn't shrivel up and die during the winter...;)

Oh and try growing these in Florida:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/Tulipfarm.jpg

[alexjon]

Oh god, no more cows in SE Michigan, PLEASE.

[LMich]

Winter is only three months long, with the growing season generally occuring between April and November. And last time I checked livestock doesn't shrivel up and die during the winter...;)

Who said anything about livestock?

[hudkina]

Livestock is part of the agricultural diversity. Produce, flowers, fish, livestock, etc.

[mhays]

Well, unless you can find something that contradicts the link above, that's apparently not the case. It might be because so much land in Washington and Oregon is protected and because those states have larger farms that tend to practice monoculture (massive Washington apple orchards, Oregon dairies in the Willamette Valley, etc.). But yeah, those states would have been my next guess for agricultural diversity, although it's possible that Texas might surpass them.

You can measure "diversity" in many ways. They define diversity by number of items being "over 200," but those items might not be as different as those of another state. Hypothetically if a state grew 20 items only, but many required vastly different climates and soils, I'd call that more diversity than 200 items of the same basic climate type.

[hudkina]

Most states only have one or two types of "growing climates". Why is it that big of a deal to you that Michigan has a decent agricultural diversity? Washington isn't #1 in everything...;)

[mhays]

I'm rarely about pissing contests, just accuracy. I believe that Michigan's agriculture is diversified, but the ranking is an attempt to make a subjective point look definitive.

[hudkina]

All rankings are subjective. I'm sure if Washington's tourism board was ranked #2 in that study, you'd have no problem with it.

[ginsan2]

Growing in the soil is so last century. Aside from the complete and thorough destruction of the Great Plains (... again) by farming practices, it's just inefficient. Vertical hydroponics, now, I've seen a preliminary study from a friend working on her PhD that was astounding in its efficiency.

Detroit could completely do that-- provide fresh produce all year round with effective hydroponics. The water issues that are dismantling California and the South don't exist. They might as well put the land to good use, and it could provide for a better skyline.

[mhays]

Hudkina -- You don't know me very well. If this type of debate came up, I would agree that the point was debatable and subjective.

Not all rankings are subjective. They can be objective by keeping to facts, and accurately representing those facts, saying no more than the data shows. The correct way to use the 200 figure would be to say (in so many words) that Michigan ranked #2 in the number of commercialized agricultural products in the year xxxx according to the xxxx Department of xxxx, with a total of 2xx.

[LMich]

Hudkina -- You don't know me very well. If this type of debate came up, I would agree that the point was debatable and subjective.

Not all rankings are subjective. They can be objective by keeping to facts, and accurately representing those facts, saying no more than the data shows. The correct way to use the 200 figure would be to say (in so many words) that Michigan ranked #2 in the number of commercialized agricultural products in the year xxxx according to the xxxx Department of xxxx, with a total of 2xx.

I guess I don't know you too well, either, then, because that's awfully picky for something that's not really all that ambiguous.

[brickell]

Are we really arguing over "agricultural diversity"? I fail to see how it's relevant but I want to play anyway.

According to this website (http://www.flfarmfacts.org/diversity.html), Florida has 280 commercially produced products. That's a little more than "over 200".

According to this doc (http://agriculture.house.gov/press/109/pr060611.html), Washington has over 300.

[Evergrey]

but which state has greater sylvicultural diversity?