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mwalker_mw
Mar 9, 2010, 3:19 PM
100% Clarity comes at the expense of information overload to the driver, which is equally bad. The more signs, the more chevrons, the more brightly colored paint you put in a small area, the more the driver needs to read and react to it all. You need to balance it all.


True, but I'm thinking something along the lines of a double yellow just outside of the rise, or similar. Nothing too flashy. And perhaps (not sure if this already exists) a clear distinction on the roundabout signage as to single or double lane (or more). An easy solution would be a small text sub-sign below the roundabout sign like that at a 4 way / 3 way stop with "one lane" or "two lane" as appropriate. Then, to reinforce this, get a few television news spots and maybe a pamphlet mailout. It's not that every subtlety needs to be signed at the location, rather, just clarifying some of the more confusing points into common knowledge "This is How Calgary Does Roundabouts". This education does not need to reach everyone, as long as the majority are using it correctly, most everyone else will follow. But right now there is too much confusion to ensure safe and efficient operation.

I'll give the example of merging from 5th on to memorial out of downtown. While a bit awkward with the last minute merge of the right lane, it has always operated fairly well. Currently, the gravel/scraping has completely hidden the lines in that area. The conflict between those who know the lane configuration and those trying to figure out what to do has resulted in more than a few near misses that I have seen. The end result is everyone has slowed down and that is backing up way more than it did when the lines were visible. A little bit of confusion and/or uncertainty breeds both safety hazards and inefficiency.

We don't need arrays of big flashing signs, we just need a common understanding and maybe a few more subtle visual hints. There are many simple and relatively low cost methods (already proven in other areas of traffic management) that I think would be well worth considering.

Ferreth
Mar 10, 2010, 4:22 AM
Is it arranged like this?

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/8426/rounddeath.jpg

If so it's really doesn't seem that scary.. if arms are down you don't proceed.
Actually it does seem scary, but only because it seems most motorists can't figure out that you look left and yield until the path is clear to enter any roundabout in this city.

Alright, so at 7 o'clock on this thing we have Dartmouth Road with 2 lanes for both entrance and exit of the circle. So, what happens when you have 2 lanes of traffic coming into this one lane circle? I don't want to be anywhere near Dartmouth going into this circle after a train has backed things up every which way.

I'd also comment that the train barriers from 26th & Dartmouth should have been put back further to prevent people from going around the circle the wrong way while a train is there.

I'm just going to dub this thing the "CIRCLE OF DEATH" now and be done with it; should weed out a few Darwin candidates at any rate.

Full Mountain
Mar 10, 2010, 2:55 PM
^^^
In my understanding the right lane is designed that it turns right from Dartmouth Road to Highfield Road without any further access to the circle, while the left lane on Dartmouth is design to proceed to any exit (Highfield, 24th, or Dartmouth)

You Need A Thneed
Mar 10, 2010, 4:21 PM
The city is expropriating land related to the 4th Street underpass. What funny, is that the exact same public notice giving mention of that appears on page B4, B7, AND B9 of today's Herald. I thought that was petty funny.

Bigtime
Mar 10, 2010, 4:26 PM
The city is expropriating land related to the 4th Street underpass. What funny, is that the exact same public notice giving mention of that appears on page B4, B7, AND B9 of today's Herald. I thought that was petty funny.

The old Desperados/Coyotes/Cowboys building has started to have window sections removed from it. I'm guessing it will be coming down shortly.

Nevar forget :cheers:

Ramsayfarian
Mar 10, 2010, 4:39 PM
The old Desperados/Coyotes/Cowboys building has started to have window sections removed from it. I'm guessing it will be coming down shortly.

Nevar forget :cheers:

You forget Dusty's.

Bigtime
Mar 10, 2010, 4:50 PM
You forget Dusty's.

Now that was before my time, it was Desperados (or as we liked to call it Desperate Ho's) when I came of age.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 10, 2010, 8:18 PM
Now that was before my time, it was Desperados (or as we liked to call it Desperate Ho's) when I came of age.


Thanks for making me feel old. Again.

A have a cousin who actually had sex in a porta-pottie at Dusty's. Not sure what's worse, having sex in a porta-pottie or having sex with a woman who would have sex in a porta-pottie.

I drove by Cowboys twice today, the excavators are in the process of knocking it down.

Bigtime
Mar 10, 2010, 8:34 PM
I drove by Cowboys twice today, the excavators are in the process of knocking it down.

Never Forget 03/10 :drunk:

lubicon
Mar 10, 2010, 9:46 PM
Thanks for making me feel old. Again.

A have a cousin who actually had sex in a porta-pottie at Dusty's. Not sure what's worse, having sex in a porta-pottie or having sex with a woman who would have sex in a porta-pottie.

I drove by Cowboys twice today, the excavators are in the process of knocking it down.

A woman needs a reason to have sex, a man only needs a place.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 10, 2010, 11:57 PM
A woman needs a reason to have sex, a man only needs a place.

Is getting laid a reason?

Ferreth
Mar 11, 2010, 2:10 AM
^^^
In my understanding the right lane is designed that it turns right from Dartmouth Road to Highfield Road without any further access to the circle, while the left lane on Dartmouth is design to proceed to any exit (Highfield, 24th, or Dartmouth)

That makes sense if they are closing 30th Ave permanently.

lubicon
Mar 11, 2010, 7:03 PM
A woman needs a reason to have sex, a man only needs a place.

Is getting laid a reason?

Don't know, you'll have to ask a woman I guess. :cool:

Let us know what you find out.

outoftheice
Mar 11, 2010, 7:15 PM
I posted this in the Airport thread as well. There was an excellent article on the Airport Tunnel project in the Calgary Herald this morning. I can't believe that they're not going to build this thing... talk about short sighted!!

Airport tunnel decision disastrous for city

By Naheed Nenshi, For The Calgary HeraldMarch 11, 2010Comments (6)

In killing the Airport Trail tunnel, city council has made an irreversible error whose impact will be felt for generations.

Despite assurances that the issue will be revisited once the new runway is built, there is no way it will happen.

For better or worse, from 2011 forward, the citizens of east Calgary will be cut off from the airport, we will never have adequate transit access for 18,000 workers, and a number of businesses built to serve travellers will fail.

(And don't get me started on 36th Street as an alternative; this 11-kilometre detour is a narrow strip of potholed pavement, no shoulders and no lane markings, ending at a stop sign at Country Hills Boulevard.)

There's a lot of blame to go around here: the feds and the province failed to pony up the cash. The Calgary Airport Authority has been ambivalent at best about the tunnel. Conspiracy theories about the latter abound -- was the airport loath to give up even a stripe of potentially developable land? Are they so in thrall of parking revenues and taxi concessions that they oppose anything that may lead to better transit service to YYC?

It doesn't really matter. It's not the airport authority's responsibility to fight for citizens. No, that job rightly lives with city council, and it is council that has failed us.


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Airport+tunnel+decision+disastrous+city/2669357/story.html#ixzz0htfP1r19

Mazrim
Mar 11, 2010, 7:28 PM
I'm sure they will revisit the issue in the future, actually.

Problem is, they will look at it and say "OMG look how much it will cost to build under this nice new runway! There's no way we can afford this!" So, we're screwed either way. I imagine in 20 years when the congestion in the area is so extreme that they have to do it, and the price tag will have ballooned to $1B, that everyone will ask "what were they thinking?"

Inner City Dweller
Mar 12, 2010, 8:26 AM
http://www.calgarymlc.ca/_uploads/5eceb0b2-4040-11de-9dc4-0b2bba23811d/March%208%20Roundabout%20open.pdf
The official press release for 26 Ave roundabout from CMLC. It will be 2 lanes and 30 Ave will be permanently closed after being temporarily opened this summer while they work on the circle

Alright, so at 7 o'clock on this thing we have Dartmouth Road with 2 lanes for both entrance and exit of the circle. So, what happens when you have 2 lanes of traffic coming into this one lane circle? I don't want to be anywhere near Dartmouth going into this circle after a train has backed things up every which way.

I'd also comment that the train barriers from 26th & Dartmouth should have been put back further to prevent people from going around the circle the wrong way while a train is there.

I'm just going to dub this thing the "CIRCLE OF DEATH" now and be done with it; should weed out a few Darwin candidates at any rate.

Wentworth
Mar 15, 2010, 1:09 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed yet - City will build a new "temporary" overpass at 37th and Glenmore. Any bets on how long "temporary" will be? I'm guessing they don't foresee the SW Ring Road proceeding any time soon?

Ongoing upgrades are happening along the Glenmore Trail Corridor to improve the flow of traffic and the movement of goods in Calgary. Work at Glenmore Trail and 37 Street S.W. will include construction of a temporary 37 Street detour bridge over Glenmore Trail and a second roundabout on 37 Street north of Glenmore Trail. This work allows for the removal of the traffic signals at 37 Street and provides free flow movement on Glenmore Trail.

http://telljoe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Glenmore-37-Open-House-Notice-20100323.pdf

YYCguys
Mar 15, 2010, 3:49 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed yet - City will build a new "temporary" overpass at 37th and Glenmore. Any bets on how long "temporary" will be? I'm guessing they don't foresee the SW Ring Road proceeding any time soon?



http://telljoe.ca/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Glenmore-37-Open-House-Notice-20100323.pdf

Here's the design if anyone is interested! I had a good read on how to use roundabouts, since I have only ever used those tiny ones in Crescent Heights, when there's been virtually no traffic!

http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/glenmore_37/glenmore_37_detour_design.pdf

You Need A Thneed
Mar 15, 2010, 4:11 PM
I wonder how much the temporary overpass costs?

Either way, building a temporary anything like this is an indication that the final solution is more than just a couple of years away.

We would have to think that the city has been talking to the province, and the provinces must have at least preliminary ideas. The city wouldn't build anything temporary that would interfere with any of the proposed final solutions.

This temporary bridge has got to be in a place that it can be for most of the construction, at least.

mersar
Mar 15, 2010, 4:18 PM
Yep. Compared to the previous design that was on the city's site this looks like a "lets fix the current issue, make people happy that we kept our promise, but don't block the province from building the final fix" type of interchange. Based on the size I'm going to make a rough estimate of $40M for this temporary fix, but you never know it may be possible to incorporate it into the future full interchange there for the ring road which could mean that it wouldn't be a completely wasted $40M.

You Need A Thneed
Mar 15, 2010, 4:34 PM
Yep. Compared to the previous design that was on the city's site this looks like a "lets fix the current issue, make people happy that we kept our promise, but don't block the province from building the final fix" type of interchange. Based on the size I'm going to make a rough estimate of $40M for this temporary fix, but you never know it may be possible to incorporate it into the future full interchange there for the ring road which could mean that it wouldn't be a completely wasted $40M.

If that's anywhere near 40 million, they are wasting their money. I'm going to assume that they don't make an interchange designed to last as long as a regular bridge, also, it looks like it's only two lanes wide.

My guess is closer to 15 million.

freeweed
Mar 15, 2010, 4:47 PM
At the rate we're going, the SW Ring Road won't even be started until 2020, making this a moot point.

Mazrim
Mar 15, 2010, 5:29 PM
Real temporary structures are built of rock and wire ala Kicking Horse Canyon, sheesh. :haha: This is an awkward design but ensures that building the ring road interchange will be easy. Thank goodness, because the less years of construction we have to deal with on Glenmore Trail, the better.

MalcolmTucker
Mar 15, 2010, 5:50 PM
^ Add to that that it doesn't antagonize the reserve as well.

Ferreth
Mar 16, 2010, 2:27 AM
^ Add to that that it doesn't antagonize the reserve as well.

I wouldn't count on that. Check out the circuitous route someone hitting the Casino from the east would have:

- Exit right from Glenmore
- First right out of traffic circle (now traveling backwards to your original direction). Road takes a right to the south.
- Cross bridge, road takes a right to the west again. Continue straight into traffic circle, exit first right again. Hopefully this part will be obvious or else you'll end up back on Glenmore if you hang a right again.

It wouldn't surprise me for a second if the Reserve complains about how hard it is going to be to get to the Casino, even if it might not be that bad.

MalcolmTucker
Mar 16, 2010, 12:00 PM
^ Better than cutting off their access road as a conventional overpass would do.

drto
Mar 16, 2010, 3:25 PM
I don't know if this has ever been discussed on this thread but what does everyone think about Calgary building toll freeways in the future? The plan is for Calgary to attract something like another 1.2 million people over the next 50 years which will inevitably put more pressure on already crowded roads like Deerfoot and Crowchild. The Ring Road I'm sure helped somewhat but won't be enough in the future if population growth estimates become a reality. Would elevated toll freeways be feasible in P3's or does Calgary's winter freeze/thaw climate negate their usefulness and longevity? What about tunnels? I'm sure there's some intellectual forumers on here that could share some of their knowledge on this.

Mazrim
Mar 16, 2010, 3:36 PM
Freeze thaw isn't a problem, but the frosty reception a toll road would get is. There simply won't be any traction for that idea to get going, in my opinion. You know the government will never make the ring road a toll road, and any roads that collect tolls would have to be a major time saver to justify the cost to drivers (like the airport tunnel could do, I suppose...)

Honestly at this point I can't even see where a good place to place a toll road would be. Elevated roads are unsightly and generally destructive to communities (see cities like Boston) so it would be a tough sell, and turning current toll-free roads into tolled roads seems unlikely.

MalcolmTucker
Mar 16, 2010, 4:24 PM
I could see HOT lanes being added on Deerfoot. Other than that unless consumption of gasoline falls enough that taxes don't pay for roads anymore I don't see it happening.

fusili
Mar 16, 2010, 5:38 PM
I think we actually need less roads. Building more roads is a wicked problem. You build more, so people drive more, so then you have to build more, which causes people to drive more. When your solution causes a positive feedback loop, it is time to look at different options.

I don't know if this has ever been discussed on this thread but what does everyone think about Calgary building toll freeways in the future? The plan is for Calgary to attract something like another 1.2 million people over the next 50 years which will inevitably put more pressure on already crowded roads like Deerfoot and Crowchild. The Ring Road I'm sure helped somewhat but won't be enough in the future if population growth estimates become a reality. Would elevated toll freeways be feasible in P3's or does Calgary's winter freeze/thaw climate negate their usefulness and longevity? What about tunnels? I'm sure there's some intellectual forumers on here that could share some of their knowledge on this.

Knoots
Mar 16, 2010, 5:56 PM
At the rate we're going, the SW Ring Road won't even be started until 2020, making this a moot point.

I'm not entirely sure what the advantage is of building this temporary overpass before the SW ring road is built (at least the highway 8 to highway 1 portion). The traffic backs up well past crowchild during rush hour on glenmore because of the lights at 37th, but until the interchange at highway 8 and sarcee/glenmore is built to free flow, you're still going to have this backup. And, until glenmore is connected to the ring road heading north, most of the traffic gets stopped at Sarcee and richmond. So I don't think this 'fix' really fixes anything. Priority should be on the glenmore to stoney north. Any thougths?

MalcolmTucker
Mar 16, 2010, 6:02 PM
It might not fix the westbound backups, but it for sure will solve the east bound ones! (or transfer it cascading all the way down Glenmore). The intersection at Highway 8 has a much shorter phase where there isn't traffic going west/north on Glenmore/Sarcee so 37th being gone might not overload the intersection.

lubicon
Mar 16, 2010, 6:24 PM
I wouldn't count on that. Check out the circuitous route someone hitting the Casino from the east would have:

- Exit right from Glenmore
- First right out of traffic circle (now traveling backwards to your original direction). Road takes a right to the south.
- Cross bridge, road takes a right to the west again. Continue straight into traffic circle, exit first right again. Hopefully this part will be obvious or else you'll end up back on Glenmore if you hang a right again.

It wouldn't surprise me for a second if the Reserve complains about how hard it is going to be to get to the Casino, even if it might not be that bad.

I hope they do complain, and I hope they get a great big F.U. in response.

drto
Mar 16, 2010, 8:07 PM
I think we actually need less roads. Building more roads is a wicked problem. You build more, so people drive more, so then you have to build more, which causes people to drive more. When your solution causes a positive feedback loop, it is time to look at different options.

I know it is a wicked problem but regardless of roads or not, they are expecting this city to continue to grow and new roads will need to be built as the city continues its outward expansion. Even if we limit sprawl and build upwards vs outwards, there's no way to build up for 1.2 million more people and all the private and commercial vehicles that inevitably get added to the mix. I really do hope the city continues to encourage developers to build more dense communities on the outskirts and look at the Beltline for condo towers. I built two businesses in the inner city (Bridgeland and Arriva) because I believed in helping curb the trend of outward expansion. I don't see how we can limit the growth so much so though as to not consider new ways to encourage car-pooling etc, which is what toll roads and carpool lanes can do when implemented properly. Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!

Mazrim
Mar 16, 2010, 11:01 PM
I'm not entirely sure what the advantage is of building this temporary overpass before the SW ring road is built (at least the highway 8 to highway 1 portion).
Actually, moving the Westbound log jam over to Highway 8 is a great thing, because it clears up the stretch of Glenmore between 14th Street and Crowchild Trail which would be a wonderful change. Eastbound has already been mentioned, but yeah, it would be huge improvement.

Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!
This is being done in Florida (two extra lanes coming on a raised platform centered in the median), but mind you it's in a huge metropolitan area. Neat idea, but expensive and Calgary isn't at the point where it's feasible.

fusili
Mar 17, 2010, 7:43 PM
Imagine an elevated freeway suspended over the existing lanes of Deerfoot and what it would look like for drivers to cruise high above a parking lot of frustrated drivers down below...might be worth a few bucks per month!

Or we can just recreate the Big Dig here in Calgary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

But honestly, an elevated freeway over Deerfoot is completely unachievable. Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

MichaelS
Mar 18, 2010, 2:50 PM
Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

Or this:
http://www.martinjetpack.com/

fusili
Mar 18, 2010, 8:25 PM
Or this:
http://www.martinjetpack.com/

Oh my God yes! Remember the movie, the Rocketeer. I want to be that guy.

MasterG
Mar 19, 2010, 3:43 AM
Or we can just recreate the Big Dig here in Calgary.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig

But honestly, an elevated freeway over Deerfoot is completely unachievable. Might as well plan for flying cars and vacuum tubes for transportation.

Totally agree. Deerfoot has tons of room to add more lanes, i cant see any situation in Calgary that would resort to an elevated and/or tunneled route similar to the big dig. We dont have the density or the traffic to support anything close to that.

Land is cheap enough and there are few things that are difficult to tear down to build a road (excluding the new runway of course ;) )

mersar
Mar 20, 2010, 6:24 AM
The new automated lane reversal system for both Memorial Drive and the 5th Ave Connector goes into use on Monday according to signs up over the last couple days.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 20, 2010, 7:27 PM
Here's a little gif of the S.E traffic circle. I was there for about 1/2 an hour and saw several near misses. I thought I had some video of some close calls, but turns out I need to read my DSLR manual. :shrug:

This is also my first attempt at creating a gif. I think I should have made the pic size a bit smaller. You'll have to be patient as it takes a minute or so to load.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4447909163_d38c50450f_o.gif

mersar
Mar 20, 2010, 7:37 PM
Yep. I went through it last night and noticed one car who decided to go the wrong way around the circle to get from Highfield to head into Ramsay, and numerous cars *in the circle* yielding to cars trying to enter it. And a train was approaching but I got through before I noticed it and decided I didn't want to stick around to see the chaos of that added element

Jimby
Mar 20, 2010, 9:11 PM
great gif Ramsayfarian!

Ramsayfarian
Mar 20, 2010, 11:38 PM
Yep. I went through it last night and noticed one car who decided to go the wrong way around the circle to get from Highfield to head into Ramsay, and numerous cars *in the circle* yielding to cars trying to enter it. And a train was approaching but I got through before I noticed it and decided I didn't want to stick around to see the chaos of that added element

I would have stuck around for that train wreck. I was praying for a train to show up, when I was taking those photos.

When I was observing the unwashed, I saw so many close calls, the first thing that popped into my mind was the old figure 8 stock car racetrack. The thing that worries me, is most folks who aren't used to a traffic circle, are so focused on what the fuck they should be doing, that I don't think they even notice the tracks.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 20, 2010, 11:41 PM
great gif Ramsayfarian!

Thanks, but you're too kind. I think my technique needs a bit of work. It's coming close to inducing nausea.

freeweed
Mar 21, 2010, 1:10 AM
the first thing that popped into my mind was the old figure 8 stock car racetrack.

You're probably thinking of the real thing, but your comment made me think of a figure 8 SLOT car track.

Great idea for a concept short film: have you and several people holding those old corded controllers on your porch, pretending to drive the idiots through the circle. Get the camera angle right, with lots of swearing as cars collide, and I bet you'd have a million YouTube hits within a week.

srperrycgy
Mar 21, 2010, 1:18 AM
Great idea for a concept short film: have you and several people holding those old corded controllers on your porch, pretending to drive the idiots through the circle. Get the camera angle right, with lots of swearing as cars collide, and I bet you'd have a million YouTube hits within a week.

Hell yeah! :cool:

Ferreth
Mar 21, 2010, 3:39 AM
Thanks, but you're too kind. I think my technique needs a bit of work. It's coming close to inducing nausea.

Could you post a straight pic from gif with the traffic circle in the middle? This is a good angle for a reference shot.

Wooster
Mar 21, 2010, 3:43 AM
Thanks, but you're too kind. I think my technique needs a bit of work. It's coming close to inducing nausea.

it hurts my eyeballs. :cool:

Ramsayfarian
Mar 21, 2010, 3:57 AM
You're probably thinking of the real thing, but your comment made me think of a figure 8 SLOT car track.

Great idea for a concept short film: have you and several people holding those old corded controllers on your porch, pretending to drive the idiots through the circle. Get the camera angle right, with lots of swearing as cars collide, and I bet you'd have a million YouTube hits within a week.

Anyone under 30 wouldn't know what those controllers are, and would assume we're terrorists.

freeweed
Mar 21, 2010, 5:09 AM
Anyone under 30 wouldn't know what those controllers are, and would assume we're terrorists.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

I normally don't post empty responses, but that was just too good to pass up.

Smevo
Mar 21, 2010, 5:54 AM
Here's a little gif of the S.E traffic circle. I was there for about 1/2 an hour and saw several near misses. I thought I had some video of some close calls, but turns out I need to read my DSLR manual. :shrug:

This is also my first attempt at creating a gif. I think I should have made the pic size a bit smaller. You'll have to be patient as it takes a minute or so to load.



Forgive the stupid question, but were you hitting the shutter button to start the video recording? I remember you have a T1i and that's what I was doing with mine initially until I found the record button to the right of the LCD screen.

I think freeweed's suggestion about the controllers is a great idea, though I'd peg the age of recognizing them closer to 25 (mostly because I'd be able to recognize them and I'm not 30 yet...though I'm quickly approaching).

Jimby
Mar 21, 2010, 6:10 AM
I thought the nausea inducing effect was your artistry in showing what a clusterfuck this traffic circle is so far.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 21, 2010, 3:34 PM
Forgive the stupid question, but were you hitting the shutter button to start the video recording? I remember you have a T1i and that's what I was doing with mine initially until I found the record button to the right of the LCD screen.

I think freeweed's suggestion about the controllers is a great idea, though I'd peg the age of recognizing them closer to 25 (mostly because I'd be able to recognize them and I'm not 30 yet...though I'm quickly approaching).

Good memory, but I don't have the T1i anymore, I upgraded to the 7D which is slightly different.

If you think the approach to 30 is quick, wait until 40. :slob:

Ramsayfarian
Mar 21, 2010, 3:38 PM
:haha: :haha: :haha:

I normally don't post empty responses, but that was just too good to pass up.

I have a wireless RF remote for my camera, the transmitter actually has a telescoping antenna. The sales guy told me not to use in Airports as it might freak out security.


I thought the nausea inducing effect was your artistry in showing what a clusterfuck this traffic circle is so far.

I'm so glad you caught that, because I sure didn't.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 21, 2010, 3:50 PM
Could you post a straight pic from gif with the traffic circle in the middle? This is a good angle for a reference shot.

Hi Ferreth, I could have sworn that I posted one last night, but I guess not. Here's one, it's not the best shot, but you get the general layout.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2776/4450331523_f927dedab1_b.jpg

srperrycgy
Mar 21, 2010, 10:28 PM
I went for a quick walk to capture more of the WLRT construction, and I came across this sign on EB 17th Ave @ 37th ST SW:

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/NLTSign.jpg

I've zoomed in on it a bit with my camera, but would a driver be able to decipher it? I really don't think so.

Stang
Mar 22, 2010, 3:33 AM
I've zoomed in on it a bit with my camera, but would a driver be able to decipher it? I really don't think so.

I think that you'd have a pretty good defence if you got nabbed making that turn. Isn't there some sort of standard size that writing must be on road signs?

mersar
Mar 22, 2010, 3:56 AM
I think that you'd have a pretty good defence if you got nabbed making that turn. Isn't there some sort of standard size that writing must be on road signs?

Realistically actually you shouldn't need a defense, if you can't read the writing you should be assuming no left turns at any time. Granted I'm sure there will be some people who are used to driving there that won't even see the new sign, but thats a different issue.

MMMBeer
Mar 22, 2010, 2:43 PM
Realistically actually you shouldn't need a defense, if you can't read the writing you should be assuming no left turns at any time. Granted I'm sure there will be some people who are used to driving there that won't even see the new sign, but thats a different issue.

Agreed the writing underneath is tiny unlike many other examples of that type of sign. Plus I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the population has no idea how to read time in 24 hour format. Piss poor signage.

Having said that why is the turn restricted only during evening rush hour? Morning is when it gets really busy (17th EB heads TOWARD downtown).

fusili
Mar 22, 2010, 4:03 PM
Having said that why is the turn restricted only during evening rush hour? Morning is when it gets really busy (17th EB heads TOWARD downtown).

I would imagine it is because left turns aren't going to affect traffic in the morning, as few cars are heading westbound. In the evening it is a different story.

Mazrim
Mar 22, 2010, 4:11 PM
I think that you'd have a pretty good defence if you got nabbed making that turn. Isn't there some sort of standard size that writing must be on road signs?

That's the same size text you'll see on parking signs on the side of a local street. Obviously it doesn't work so well in this case, but the City obviously is still suffering from having no one with signing experience. Ever since the City started doing their own signs rather than contracting them out, it's been a bit of a mess, especially in terms of consistency. Check out stuff like Country Hills/Beddington, Crowchild/Nose Hill or the GE5 interchange for some wildly inconsistent and misplaced guide signing. It's painful.

If they followed their own guidelines for that left turn sign, the text would be larger and they'd use the CT logo instead of writing it out.

freeweed
Mar 22, 2010, 5:16 PM
I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the population has no idea how to read time in 24 hour format.

Seriously?

Every road and parking sign I've seen in years has time in the 24hr clock. Just looked out my window, and downtown parking zones seem to be 24hr formatted.

Sorry, but if you cannot understand that, you do not deserve to drive.

Does Calgary actually have AM/PM signs still?

MMMBeer
Mar 22, 2010, 5:22 PM
I would imagine it is because left turns aren't going to affect traffic in the morning, as few cars are heading westbound. In the evening it is a different story.

I guess. But why is there an advanced green arrow normally in that case? I think it should be no left turn during the morning rush as well (except for transit).

Having said that it hasn't been as horrible as I'd feared (I go through that intersection every weekday).

lubicon
Mar 22, 2010, 7:10 PM
The new automated lane reversal system for both Memorial Drive and the 5th Ave Connector goes into use on Monday according to signs up over the last couple days.

Saw the arms on the Bow Trail connector in operation as of this morning. Friday night the lane reversal lights (green arrows and red 'x's were lit up on Memorial as well.

Ramsayfarian
Mar 23, 2010, 1:26 AM
Make way for the Vortex Junction (http://jalopnik.com/5497618/vortex-junction-the-next+gen-roundabout)

Innersoul1
Mar 24, 2010, 3:19 PM
Are there any images of the new Glenmore & 37th St. Interchange?

YYCguys
Mar 24, 2010, 4:19 PM
i am not sure if the ultimate interchange renderings have been hammered out yet. I think the City is waiting for the Province to figure out what they are doing about the ring road. In the interim, they are just doing some sort of mega traffic circle, but it looks quite temporary IMHO.

mersar
Mar 24, 2010, 4:24 PM
Are there any images of the new Glenmore & 37th St. Interchange?

So far just the one very low res site plan (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/glenmore_37/glenmore_37_detour_design.pdf) with the new north traffic circle and the 'temporary' overpass.

korzym
Mar 24, 2010, 9:25 PM
a jurisdiction with balls

Report: Georgia to outlaw left-lane slowpokes

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/24/report-georgia-to-outlaw-left-lane-slowpokes/

Stang
Mar 24, 2010, 10:01 PM
a jurisdiction with balls

Report: Georgia to outlaw left-lane slowpokes

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/24/report-georgia-to-outlaw-left-lane-slowpokes/

Holy crap. I am in agreement with you, Korzym. ;)

Quite truthfully, some re-education (even if that includes better enforcement) on the proper use of the left lane (passing!) is overdue here and in many other places.

Xelebes
Mar 24, 2010, 10:06 PM
Make way for the Vortex Junction (http://jalopnik.com/5497618/vortex-junction-the-next+gen-roundabout)

Huh, that looks cool. Looks like it would take up quite a bit of land though.

freeweed
Mar 25, 2010, 2:36 AM
Stupid question, this may be the best thread to ask it in:

Do school buses here not use flashing red lights and those stop signs on the side of the bus? I've noticed a few buses recently letting kids off with just flashing yellow lights (almost like a car's hazard lights) but never thought about it. Drove up to one today and had zero clue what to do. When I took driver's ed, the rule wasn't "you have to stop for every school bus that may or may not be letting off kids". It was "stop when red lights flashing", which incidentally is still printed on the backs of school buses.

Am I missing something? Are we required to stop every time a school bus pulls over, regardless of signaling? I'd chalk this up to a negligent bus driver but I've seen it several times lately.

When I was a young'un, the driver opening the door triggered the red lights and that little stop sign on the driver's side of the bus. Did something change?

(Can you tell I don't often drive during school hours?)

Ramsayfarian
Mar 25, 2010, 2:50 AM
Stupid question, this may be the best thread to ask it in:


When I was a young'un, the driver opening the door triggered the red lights and that little stop sign on the driver's side of the bus. Did something change?

(Can you tell I don't often drive during school hours?)

Sounds like you rode a much shorter bus. :jester:

mersar
Mar 25, 2010, 5:58 AM
Am I missing something? Are we required to stop every time a school bus pulls over, regardless of signaling? I'd chalk this up to a negligent bus driver but I've seen it several times lately.

When I was a young'un, the driver opening the door triggered the red lights and that little stop sign on the driver's side of the bus. Did something change?

(Can you tell I don't often drive during school hours?)

Yep. Theres two sets of rules, the provincial rules which state you must stop for a bus with flashing red activated and then the city bylaw that overrides them (Bylaw 26m96 (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/cityclerks/26m96.pdf)) which states:

38. (1) The operator of a vehicle bearing the sign “School Bus” shall not activate the alternately flashing red or yellow lights on the vehicle while loading or unloading passengers on a highway in the City except on those highways listed in Schedule “L” of this Bylaw.
(2) The requirement under the Act for the operator of a school bus to make a mandatory stop at a railway crossing not controlled by a traffic control signal shall not apply to such uncontrolled crossings within the corporate limits.The city's rule is only valid as theres no regulation forcing drivers of a bus to activate the flashers when stopped to let riders on or off. I know quite a few urban areas have a rule similar to Calgary's, usually in the guise of preventing traffic problems as students should only be crossing at the corner or marked crossing and not in front of the bus

freeweed
Mar 25, 2010, 1:48 PM
So am I required to stop or not?

freeweed
Mar 25, 2010, 1:49 PM
Sounds like you rode a much shorter bus. :jester:

:P

It was hard-wired to every school bus back in the day. Opening the door automatically triggered everything.

Not that I ever rode many school buses. Usually I ended up walking uphill to school, both ways (actual truth due to a unique geographic layout where I lived).

Mazrim
Mar 25, 2010, 2:36 PM
Back in BC the school bus always used the red flashers and stop sign, and I don't get why they wouldn't here. Aren't we all so safety crazy these days that doing MORE to make it noticeable that the bus has stopped would be good? Oh well.

You Need A Thneed
Mar 25, 2010, 2:52 PM
In my 15 years of driving, I can't remember seeing the school bus stop sign and lights out even once. It simply not used here.

Stang
Mar 25, 2010, 3:43 PM
I don't believe that this has been posted yet, but it appears that the elusive date of the RRR/Crowchild closure is April 10th.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thecityofcalgary (on the right side you'll see the video - just some guy talking about it).

We have certainly discussed the issue at length here before - not we get the chance to see how it'll play out. With CHB connecting to 12 Mile Coulee and a few new sets of lights around Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak, I would imagine that it won't be as bad as some predict. Still a pain for those that live near the centre of the combined Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak area.

There will be an adjustment period, of course, and I would expect to see a number of people heading down there anyway only to get turned back. After, of course, the obligatory fist shake at the road closure sign and gasping "what about the children!" ;)

SubwayRev
Mar 25, 2010, 3:57 PM
So am I required to stop or not?

No, for the reason mersar pointed out; the Stop sign that swings out from the bus signifies that kids will be crossing in front of the bus, but they are supposed to be crossing at the nearest intersection.

I believe you might see swinging Stop signs used on rural school buses, where there often isn't a nearby intersection for kids to cross at.

freeweed
Mar 25, 2010, 4:07 PM
No, for the reason mersar pointed out; the Stop sign that swings out from the bus signifies that kids will be crossing in front of the bus, but they are supposed to be crossing at the nearest intersection.

I believe you might see swinging Stop signs used on rural school buses, where there often isn't a nearby intersection for kids to cross at.

Wow, common sense. I'll parrot the previous response in that it just surprises me - in today's "safety above all else" climate, I'm shocked that we don't have the kids exiting the bus in crash bubbles. :haha:

Funny that it's taken me 5 years to notice this; I pretty much never ever drive around 3pm.

Thanks for the info folks!

freeweed
Mar 25, 2010, 4:10 PM
I don't believe that this has been posted yet, but it appears that the elusive date of the RRR/Crowchild closure is April 10th.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thecityofcalgary (on the right side you'll see the video - just some guy talking about it).

We have certainly discussed the issue at length here before - not we get the chance to see how it'll play out. With CHB connecting to 12 Mile Coulee and a few new sets of lights around Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak, I would imagine that it won't be as bad as some predict. Still a pain for those that live near the centre of the combined Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak area.

There will be an adjustment period, of course, and I would expect to see a number of people heading down there anyway only to get turned back. After, of course, the obligatory fist shake at the road closure sign and gasping "what about the children!" ;)

CHB heading westbound is going to be a complete mess for a while as people adjust. Right now it can get rather backed up with traffic turning into Royal Oak (even with the extra turning lane) so with double the vehicles, it's going to be a gong show. The ramp from Stoney SB to CHB WB is way too close to those lights and in the past things have gotten so backed up that it's been impossible to get over to make that left turn. This was alleviated with the extra turning lane but I anticipate a return of the problem.

Fortunately I just about never drive during rush hour but I'm not looking forward to the extra 5 mins sitting on the bus while the intersection slowly clears.

para transit fellow
Mar 25, 2010, 5:03 PM
Stupid question, this may be the best thread to ask it in:

Do school buses here not use flashing red lights and those stop signs on the side of the bus? I've noticed a few buses recently letting kids off with just flashing yellow lights (almost like a car's hazard lights) but never thought about it. Drove up to one today and had zero clue what to do. When I took driver's ed, the rule wasn't "you have to stop for every school bus that may or may not be letting off kids". It was "stop when red lights flashing", which incidentally is still printed on the backs of school buses.

Am I missing something? Are we required to stop every time a school bus pulls over, regardless of signaling? I'd chalk this up to a negligent bus driver but I've seen it several times lately.

When I was a young'un, the driver opening the door triggered the red lights and that little stop sign on the driver's side of the bus. Did something change?

(Can you tell I don't often drive during school hours?)


The "stop for red lights flashing" law applies all across Alberta UNLESS the local municipality has passed a bylaw dictating otherwise. So Calgary & Airdrie have bylaws in place to prevent the bus operator from using the 8-way flashing lights. Irricana (and I believe Chestermere) don't have that bylaw in place so the use and obeyence (?) is mandatory.

para transit fellow
Mar 25, 2010, 5:06 PM
No, for the reason mersar pointed out; the Stop sign that swings out from the bus signifies that kids will be crossing in front of the bus, but they are supposed to be crossing at the nearest intersection.

I believe you might see swinging Stop signs used on rural school buses, where there often isn't a nearby intersection for kids to cross at.

On rural bus routes the stop sign / eightway flasher system is out at EVERY stop regardless of whether the kids cross the road or not.

Mazrim
Mar 25, 2010, 5:15 PM
I don't believe that this has been posted yet, but it appears that the elusive date of the RRR/Crowchild closure is April 10th.

http://www.youtube.com/user/thecityofcalgary (on the right side you'll see the video - just some guy talking about it).

We have certainly discussed the issue at length here before - not we get the chance to see how it'll play out. With CHB connecting to 12 Mile Coulee and a few new sets of lights around Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak, I would imagine that it won't be as bad as some predict. Still a pain for those that live near the centre of the combined Rocky Ridge and Royal Oak area.

There will be an adjustment period, of course, and I would expect to see a number of people heading down there anyway only to get turned back. After, of course, the obligatory fist shake at the road closure sign and gasping "what about the children!" ;)

I really doubt it will be as bad as people expect. If you recall major road closures in other places (let's use major interstates in this example), the public was given enough notice that they either found different ways to go, or went at different times then they normally would, spreading the volumes out sufficiently to either not cause any major backups or for a while...even lowering volumes. Once people get the hang of what works and what doesn't, things will be just like if it was still like today.

The city will obviously make adjustments for what doesn't work in terms of signal timing to help people out, but the doom and gloom is oft predicted but rarely seen.

mersar
Mar 25, 2010, 5:19 PM
Yep. I think the bigger issue will be the complaints about the roads themselves, I was chatting with a former neighbor who now lives in Rocky Ridge, and theres a number of roads which were paved fairly thin, and are already fairly rough before the influx of traffic (Rocky Valley Drive was one mentioned) gets on them and starts complaining. So we'll probably see the city doing a fair bit of resurfacing this summer is my bet. I also wouldn't be surprised to see at least a 4 way stop implemented at 12 Mile and CHB, that intersection is fairly blind if you're trying to make a left turn as you can't see south bound traffic (not that theres too much, but there is some) unless you crawl out into the intersection usually.

YYCguys
Mar 26, 2010, 2:17 PM
My friend who currently lives in Royal Oak is going to avoid all the mess about to erupt in RRR area simply by selling his house and moving to Victoria! LOL

srperrycgy
Mar 27, 2010, 2:26 AM
I was nearly hit by a fast-turning truck 30min ago at 17th Ave @ 34th St. SW. :hell: Called CPS on the guy.

CPS came by, but the plate I saw didn't match the description they have in their DB. Oh well. I did fill them in on my close calls a block over at 33rd.

dmuzika
Mar 27, 2010, 10:42 PM
So far just the one very low res site plan (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/glenmore_37/glenmore_37_detour_design.pdf) with the new north traffic circle and the 'temporary' overpass.

So I guess it would be too much to ask for the city to widen Glenmore Trail to 6 lanes west of Crowchild as part of the project?

You Need A Thneed
Apr 6, 2010, 4:30 PM
So I guess it would be too much to ask for the city to widen Glenmore Trail to 6 lanes west of Crowchild as part of the project?

I'm sure they are waiting to see what happens with the ring road first.

In other news, the tender for the construction of the 96th Ave extension (connecting Harvest Hills BLVD to Deerfoot) including an upgrade of the airport Trail interchange is out. We'll probably see construction start this summer.

I'm pretty sure the interchange upgrade will just be to complete the missing ramps for now, and add a lane to Airport Trail eastbound under deerfoot (currently only 1).

mersar
Apr 7, 2010, 5:08 AM
Also I noticed what I think is one of the new solar speed warning devices described here (http://www.calgarycitynews.com/2010/03/calgarians-urged-to-limit-their-speed.html)that are being installed, this one was on EB Country Hills Blvd approaching where Walmart and Sobeys are by 85th Street (or 112th Ave?) intersection in the NW.

frinkprof
Apr 7, 2010, 5:17 AM
Nevermind.

srperrycgy
Apr 7, 2010, 5:22 AM
I believe I saw one of these on Richmond Road at 31st St. yesterday, but I don't think it was turned on.

mersar
Apr 7, 2010, 5:56 AM
Yeah, the one on CHB wasn't on either (it was also dark out, not sure if they have a battery in them or not either). Was a black board about the size of the LED lane indicator on 5th ave @ centre downtown, with a solar panel mounted off the side. This one was mounted on a street light pole.

Koolfire
Apr 7, 2010, 9:51 AM
There's one working south Harvest Hills Blvd right before Beddington. Another that is working is Beddington north of Country Hills. However, the one on Beddington may not be correct as there is no sign indicating that the speed limit drops from 80 to 60.

Ramsayfarian
Apr 7, 2010, 1:45 PM
Also I noticed what I think is one of the new solar speed warning devices described here (http://www.calgarycitynews.com/2010/03/calgarians-urged-to-limit-their-speed.html)that are being installed, this one was on EB Country Hills Blvd approaching where Walmart and Sobeys are by 85th Street (or 112th Ave?) intersection in the NW.

They've had one of those devices on the south part of Spiller Road for at least 6 months now. Due to it's proximity the City's offices, I wouldn't be surprised if that was the City's test sign.

I prefer the ones that tell you what speed you're travelling, as it's fun setting new speed records.

Mazrim
Apr 7, 2010, 3:17 PM
Also I noticed what I think is one of the new solar speed warning devices described here (http://www.calgarycitynews.com/2010/03/calgarians-urged-to-limit-their-speed.html)that are being installed, this one was on EB Country Hills Blvd approaching where Walmart and Sobeys are by 85th Street (or 112th Ave?) intersection in the NW.
I love the one comment in that article you linked. Someone owns Macleod Trail apparently!

Ramsayfarian
Apr 7, 2010, 3:34 PM
I love the one comment in that article you linked. Someone owns Macleod Trail apparently!

That was me. :tup:

frinkprof
Apr 7, 2010, 3:52 PM
Nevermind.