[haljackey]

Rick Mercer's take on Canadian unions and the Conservative government:

CITS7DELzXE

This was made in October 2011 yet is pretty relevant to what happened at Electro-Motive.


Big question: do you think this would have happened if the plant was still part of GM's Diesel Division? If that company hadn't tanked they may not have sold it?

[Highinthesky]

Possibly if GM Diesel still owned the plant this might not have happened but that is a pretty big IF. Gm Diesel was two owners ago.

[MrSlippery519]

Big question: do you think this would have happened if the plant was still part of GM's Diesel Division? If that company hadn't tanked they may not have sold it?

I think other changes would have been made a long time ago if this was still under the GM diesel division.
I dealt with EMD over the past few years and they were quite frankly a pain to work with...very slow, zero sense of urgency, they would often wait until the last second to order things and as a result pay large air charge premiums. From what I saw it's really no shock they are no longer around.

[Wharn]

If EMD was still owned by GM diesel, I think the outcome would have been similar.

Having GM diesel own Electro-Motive was as disasterous as having GM Corp. own Saab. The two entities suffered from poor management and chronic under-investment, so by the time new buyers came around the operations of both companies (Saab and EMD) were woefully inefficient and hopelessly outdated.

The difference is Saab's new owners actually tried to save it. Not so with Electro-Motive. General Rule: Anything run by General Motors eventually goes to pot!

[MolsonExport]

Slagging unions is one thing. But what about the cops/firemen getting year-over-year raises double the inflation rate for the past decade? Compare to those poor bastards at electromotive asked to take an extreme pay cut (which we all know was simply a ruse to gain a pretext to move the company to buttfuck usa). Look, we all know that the wages were unsustainable. But you can't really blame the workers for the unsustainable pay increases of the past.

[manny_santos]

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/02/19/19399816.html

The Free Press is still spreading the blatant lie about the EMD workers taking a 50% pay cut. I have just sent them an email (again) with a link to EMD's final offer, and then telling them that it is very unfortunate how much they have sensationalized the EMD issue without providing balanced coverage, and instead manipulating facts (such as EMD's final offer) to suit the CAW's position.

Between the Free Press and AM980, I am starting to think more and more that London's media landscape is dominated by young, recent graduates who have no idea what they're talking about when they write a story. I know from interning at The Gazette at Western that it is very difficult to stop your personal biases from showing through in a news article, but it can be done - it takes journalistic skill, which is an art. You just have to know the right questions to ask, but I don't think today's commercial journalists have a clue how to do that - instead it's interview the head of the CAW, do a few man-on-the-street interviews, and you've got a story. There's no in-depth research anymore.

Walter Blackburn would be horrified at what his two London media properties have become.

[Wharn]

Between the Free Press and AM980, I am starting to think more and more that London's media landscape is dominated by young, recent graduates who have no idea what they're talking about when they write a story.

Funny, I've thought the same thing about journalists in general over the past several years. People who are very skilled at writing but lack any relevant knowledge on the subject at hand.

[manny_santos]

This week's massive job loss in Southwestern Ontario comes to us from Chatham, already ravaged by the loss of the Navistar Truck plant:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/02/29/19439676.html

This is not the Canada I remember growing up with, and I have a little rant I need to get off my chest. As some of you know I currently work in Latin America, in a region that has economically grown by leaps and bounds over the past 18 years. It really bothers me when local people here question why I, a Canadian, would want to work in their country when I'm from a golden "land of opportunity". Locals I talk to are absolutely shocked when I tell them about London's unemployment rate, and about the multitude of employers that have closed down in Southwestern Ontario (EMD, Ford Talbotville, Sterling, etc.); in some cases, job losses their country has directly benefitted from. They also don't know about the unemployment problems in other parts of Ontario, and in the Maritimes. Instead, they cite the number of people from their country who go to Canada to work (not knowing that most of them are actually seasonal farm workers going to pick tobacco in Norfolk County). The Canada we're living with today is not the image of Canada they had.

I spoke with a man from Cleveland recently who echoed my sentiment with respect to the United States, and he said that many people from where I am now who crossed into the United States (legally or otherwise) to find work have been so shocked by the economic problems in that country that they've gone back home to find work. Being from Downtown Cleveland, he knows what he's talking about.

This isn't the 1950s anymore, where Canada and the United States were booming, and most of Latin America was in the third world.

There, end of rant.

[Highinthesky]

So it was a rant about things change?

[manny_santos]

So it was a rant about things change?

My rant was related to people I know in Latin America who make comments to me about leaving "the golden land of opportunity" to go work in their country, when they have no idea what they're talking about.

[Symz]

Nothing annoys me more these days when I have to make a call to some institution for technical support and I get someone in a foreign country and most of the time even though they can speak English it is heavily tainted with their own accent still leaving a language barrier.

I have nothing against other countries or languages, it's just that it can make things very difficult at times and most of the time when you're calling for support it's because something has happened that was unintended causing duress in the first place.:brickwall:

[manny_santos]

Nothing annoys me more these days when I have to make a call to some institution for technical support and I get someone in a foreign country and most of the time even though they can speak English it is heavily tainted with their own accent still leaving a language barrier.

I have nothing against other countries or languages, it's just that it can make things very difficult at times and most of the time when you're calling for support it's because something has happened that was unintended causing duress in the first place.:brickwall:

In many cases that's a result of people not starting to learn English until an older age. In some non-English countries today it is common to start learning English in earnest in Kindergarten. We may see the results of that in the next 30 years - more English-speaking people in other countries with much less of an accent than today.

[Wharn]

Customer support really is an afterthought for most companies, so I'm disappointed to see call centres moving into foreign countries with poor training. I used to have to deal with Bell's India-based tech support, which was outrageously bad, and switching to Teksavvy's Chatham-based support was like night and day.

As far as Latin American opinions go, I suppose old presumptions die hard. Little do they know, but there are probably a lot of industrial workers in this country who strongly resent them.

[Wharn]

Bit of an old article, but London's unemployment rate stood at 8.8% in February, partially because a whole bunch of people just gave up.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/03/09/19480686.html

I honestly expected it to be worse, but we're still second-highest in the country (behind the perpetually troubled Windsor, which stands at 10.7%). Surprisingly, Toronto is not doing much better, with 8.6%.

I was perusing through the Toronto Star at a Chinese Restaurant a few days ago, and I found an article that says 100,000 people left Ontario for Alberta between 2003 and 2010. Can you blame them?

[north 42]

Bit of an old article, but London's unemployment rate stood at 8.8% in February, partially because a whole bunch of people just gave up.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/03/09/19480686.html

I honestly expected it to be worse, but we're still second-highest in the country (behind the perpetually troubled Windsor, which stands at 10.7%). Surprisingly, Toronto is not doing much better, with 8.6%.

I was perusing through the Toronto Star at a Chinese Restaurant a few days ago, and I found an article that says 100,000 people left Ontario for Alberta between 2003 and 2010. Can you blame them?

I was expecting much better numbers for Windsor too, but any decrease is better than an increase. At least our numbers dropped because the workforce actually grew, and new jobs were created. Hopefully this trend continues.

[manny_santos]

Bit of an old article, but London's unemployment rate stood at 8.8% in February, partially because a whole bunch of people just gave up.

I was perusing through the Toronto Star at a Chinese Restaurant a few days ago, and I found an article that says 100,000 people left Ontario for Alberta between 2003 and 2010. Can you blame them?

I'm one of many Londoners who has left the labour force, after being laid off in September. I was one of the few graduates from my program at Fanshawe that even found a job related to my field after graduation (not in London but nearby), and seeing what my Fanshawe colleagues were still dealing with in September, I felt there was no point in even trying to find another job in Southwestern Ontario. One Fanshawe grad I know has been without work since July, but she refuses to look for work outside Ontario. Another Fanshawe grad I know works in a call center, far outside of her field, but she refuses to look for work outside the London area. She won't even look in Toronto, where all the jobs in her field are located. They're both good friends but I have a tough time feeling sorry for them when they complain about their lack of job or their lousy job, because they have the choice to look elsewhere. It's an easy trap to fall into when you love the city you're from. (I don't hate London, but it's not on my top 100 choices of places I'd want to live in.)

Fortunately for me, I see myself as a citizen in a more global context than in a strictly local/regional context, so looking outside Ontario and outside Canada for a job is much more appealing to me than for some.

[K85]

Being one of those 8.8%'s, it's higher. I use the fanshawe job deal, and the people say it's really closer to 15-20%. People only on EI are counted. Once theirs expires, it drops that %. Mine is set to expire soon I believe (shit) and again, I am unemployed. Welcome to the wide world of false statistics.

[haljackey]

Have you heard the recent story about OLG's restructuring? It could involve upgrading London's slots at the Western Fair into a casino.

Story from A Channel:
SEy7EeSMQoM


I would like to see this happen. With the closure of nearby slots, London will become more attractive. It will pump more money into the local economy too.

Plus I'm a sucker for Blackjack. Gotta drive at least an hour away to play a some hands. :P

[MrSlippery519]

As much as this news is bad for some places, this is a huge chance for London.

Maybe they can become a full blown casino (actual tables) along with a new hotel in the area for gamblers as well as the hockey tournaments. I think the Western Fair district is going to use this as a huge chance to increase capacity and continue growing.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Western Fair already has plans to buy properties between Rectory & Ontario Streets, building a hotel among other things. I remember these plans being published and Fontana and some of council not being happy since it creates a Western Fair vs. Downtown revitalization battle.

While it is bad for other communities hopefully re-organization of casinos would help London's economy, and gets some more business

[Wharn]

Have you heard the recent story about OLG's restructuring?

Unfortunately.

Instead of being honest and upfront about taxation, the government is going to start targeting the most vulnerable people in society in order to make up their deficit.

[manny_santos]

Western Fair already has plans to buy properties between Rectory & Ontario Streets, building a hotel among other things. I remember these plans being published and Fontana and some of council not being happy since it creates a Western Fair vs. Downtown revitalization battle.

While it is bad for other communities hopefully re-organization of casinos would help London's economy, and gets some more business

Even if there are improvements made to the Western Fair, it doesn't have to be an "us versus them" situation. I can't see why in a city the size of London why there can't be more than one major hub destination. After all, the city seem to have no problem creating massive shopping hubs that attract tons of traffic.

[RoseCityFreePress]

seems like one cities loss and another gain. OLG shut down the Slot operations at Windsor Raceway, laying off 250 people. If London benefits thats great, but i think that the OLG would be shooting itself in the foot by building a casino in London. With Casinos in Niagara, a possible one in Toronto and in Windsor, theres no real need to build one in London. With Caesars Windsors profits being eaten up by Casinos in Detroit and Toledo, Adding one in London would just be another shot in the foot by OLG right after they put $400M into new construction at Caesars Windsor.

[haljackey]

Well if London were to get a casino I would assume it would be more like the one in Brantford (charity casino) opposed to something like Caesars Windsor. No hotel rooms or convention halls or anything of the like, just a gaming floor.

I doubt this will have much effect on Caesars Windsor. There are other casinos closer to London than Windsor (like Sarnia and Brantford) so I could see a minimal loss at these establishments.

Most Londoners who are going to Windsor or Niagara Falls to gamble are going for more of a vacation rather than a casino trip.

In addition, I took a look at the figures at the Western Fair slots. It generates over $100 million in revenue annually... That's insane, especially due to the fact that it isn't a casino. It blows other regional raceway track slot revenues out of the water.

(Plus I'm a sucker for Blackjack... I want tables here, although that may tempt me to play more :P)

[RoseCityFreePress]

i dont know, as far as i know the casino in Toledo OH, is just a gaming floor and it has a lot of people in Windsor and Detroit very nervous about the impact. Yes there are casinos closer to London but the lure of gambling is lost on the young crowed if they grow up with it, it makes Windsor and the OLGs investment less lucrative for the party crowd of London. The effects would be felt over time.

[north 42]

I really can't see the logic of putting any kind of casino in London when business is so slow everywhere. Doing so would just poach money and patrons from other casino's in Ontario, as oppossed to growing the market. Ontario needs to protect and strengthen it's existing casino's, not weaken them.

[haljackey]

I really can't see the logic of putting any kind of casino in London when business is so slow everywhere. Doing so would just poach money and patrons from other casino's in Ontario, as oppossed to growing the market. Ontario needs to protect and strengthen it's existing casino's, not weaken them.

Yet Chatham-Kent, a 'decaying' city is being considered by the OLG to get a casino.

dWHtQ043txU

I just don't get it... why Chatham? :sly:

[north 42]

:previous: I'm baffeled by that one too. If there was to be another casino in southwestern Ontario, it should be in London where there is a much greater population base. Who is making these decissions?

[manny_santos]

:previous: I'm baffeled by that one too. If there was to be another casino in southwestern Ontario, it should be in London where there is a much greater population base. Who is making these decissions?

The only, and I mean ONLY reason I can think of for locating a casino in C-K, is because of its central location between London and Windsor. If one is located there though, then Kitchener-Waterloo or Hamilton would be natural locations for other casinos. It would probably also mean nothing for London.

I think it would be a stupid move. I'd rather see Windsor keep its casino and London get a small casino, and then maybe a casino in the GTA.

[haljackey]

I think all the big cities in Ontario should get a casino. Think of the money they will pour into the municipal coffers.

Sure that may mean less business at existing casinos like Windsor and Niagara Falls, but those are tourist destinations as well. Plus they have hotel rooms, showrooms and whatnot, whereas all we'd have here is a small gaming floor.

I remember several years back that the Paddock Lounge (I think that's what it's called) at the Western Fair used to hold a charity casino while the fair was in session.

[RoseCityFreePress]

I dont understand the thought of a casino in C-K, possibly a racetrack but not a Casino, i mean you can practically see the lights from Windsor from there . it makes no sense.

[manny_santos]

I just thought of an idea I don't think anyone else has thought of...

Casino St. Thomas! It could really help revitalize their sh*tty downtown.

[north 42]

I need to go to St Thomas one day, it sounds so white trash and ghetto.

[haljackey]

I need to go to St Thomas one day, it sounds so white trash and ghetto.

Oh it is. Sometimes I forget I'm even in Canada while I'm there, but luckily there's metric and bilingual signs to help remind me.

[MolsonExport]

I need to go to St Thomas one day, it sounds so white trash and ghetto.

There's 25% more ____, in St. Thomas.

[Kokkei Mizu]

.......... :(

[Wharn]

Oh it is. Sometimes I forget I'm even in Canada while I'm there, but luckily there's metric and bilingual signs to help remind me.

You don't even need to go to St. Thomas. Pretty much all of London east of Highbury Avenue and south of Commissioner's Road looks like 'Murrhica at full force. I find some of the areas out near the VMP (Admiral Drive, specifically) to be particularly unattractive and sprawly.

[MolsonExport]

I heard that Timkin (ball bearings) is closing in...yup you guessed it, St. Thomas. when will the job hemorrhage ever end?

[Blitz]

I dont understand the thought of a casino in C-K, possibly a racetrack but not a Casino, i mean you can practically see the lights from Windsor from there . it makes no sense.

I remember in 1994 just before Casino Windsor opened there was so much concern that a casino would cause an increase in crime and homelessness and many people considered it morally wrong just to build one. Wow, this province has come a long way.

[manny_santos]

St. Thomas needs a casino. It sure helped Springfield when it was suffering!

[Snark]

I heard that Timkin (ball bearings) is closing in...yup you guessed it, St. Thomas. when will the job hemorrhage ever end?

It already is. The media just don't want to talk about it, and others aren't paying attention. Many are still mesmerized by the slow painful death of the old economy - much like watching a car accident.

As an example, it's unlikely that anyone will remember, but Forest City Castings purchased the 100,000 sq.ft former Lear factory in St.Thomas last year. They are relocating right now. I have a friend who is a hiring manager there, and he is hiring up to 6 people a week - and finds it a challenge to find enough skilled labour with sufficient experience levels.

This sort of thing will never replace an auto assembly plant in terms of numbers employed at an individual facility, but this is the only future of manufacturing in this part of the world: smaller more adaptable high tech firms that are a non-automotive supplier and are instead into medical, scientific, telecom, etc. Companies such as Trudel are similar.

[manny_santos]

It already is. The media just don't want to talk about it, and others aren't paying attention. Many are still mesmerized by the slow painful death of the old economy - much like watching a car accident.

As an example, it's unlikely that anyone will remember, but Forest City Castings purchased the 100,000 sq.ft former Lear factory in St.Thomas last year. They are relocating right now. I have a friend who is a hiring manager there, and he is hiring up to 6 people a week - and finds it a challenge to find enough skilled labour with sufficient experience levels.

This sort of thing will never replace an auto assembly plant in terms of numbers employed at an individual facility, but this is the only future of manufacturing in this part of the world: smaller more adaptable high tech firms that are a non-automotive supplier and are instead into medical, scientific, telecom, etc. Companies such as Trudel are similar.

Well put.

Question: Would experience in labour at EMD be sufficient experience to work for Forest City Castings?

[Wharn]

Finally some good news on the economy front, although how long it will last is anyone's guess.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/08/19857121.html

Even though the unemployment rate barely dropped (down to 8.3% from 8.4% in April), about 8,300 people joined the workforce between January and May. The reduction is occurring because people are actually starting to find jobs, not because they're becoming despondent and quitting the job market. Fontana's 10,000 job pledge suddenly doesn't look so hopelessly unrealistic.

[cbyrne2014]

Finally some good news on the economy front, although how long it will last is anyone's guess.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/08/19857121.html

Even though the unemployment rate barely dropped (down to 8.3% from 8.4% in April), about 8,300 people joined the workforce between January and May. The reduction is occurring because people are actually starting to find jobs, not because they're becoming despondent and quitting the job market. Fontana's 10,000 job pledge suddenly doesn't look so hopelessly unrealistic.

Good news indeed.

AM980 reporting (https://twitter.com/AM980News/status/211864445339705345) that an 'extremely rare' Sunday afternoon news conference called today for 4:30 pm at city hall. One would think that if the news had to be delivered on a Sunday afternoon that it must be some big news. Hopefully it is positive and on the jobs front!

[GreatTallNorth2]

Good news indeed.

AM980 reporting (https://twitter.com/AM980News/status/211864445339705345) that an 'extremely rare' Sunday afternoon news conference called today for 4:30 pm at city hall. One would think that if the news had to be delivered on a Sunday afternoon that it must be some big news. Hopefully it is positive and on the jobs front!

Yes, huge news I suspect! Could it be a major company moving to London? The building of a new office tower complex? Or is it....wait, it's that 2 seals have died? Will there be a day of mourning?

[go_leafs_go02]

Nope. Seals died from Storybook Gardens to St. Louis...

Nothing economic...

http://www.am980.ca/channels/news/local/Story.aspx?ID=1718423

[haljackey]

lol crazy overhyped press conference for this?

Sadface. :(

[cbyrne2014]

Haha - I had a similar reaction to all of you. I mean it's a sad story, but perhaps did not necessitate an emergency presser on a Sunday afternoon.

I did just read a positive story in the London Free Press on the SoHo development: http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/06/10/19861021.html

Towering proposal fast-laned
$300M CORE PROJECT
By CHIP MARTIN, THE LONDON FREE PRESS

Plans for a massive $300-million, residential-medical complex downtown so captivated a city hall committee on the weekend, it directed city staff to process the paperwork for it as quickly as possible.

SoHo Wellington Centre, with its two 26-storey residential towers soon to rank among the city's tallest buildings, would create nearly 1,000 permanent jobs and $9 million in annual property taxes, its promoters say.

And the city wouldn't have to put up a nickel.

Fincore Canada, which is proposing the project, has filed applications for a zoning change and official plan amendment, city council's investment and economic prosperity committee was told. The committee, reviewing proposals to transform the core, considered requests for more than $80 million in funding from other groups but jumped when it learned Fincore needs no money to proceed.

"No doubt this is going to be a signature project for the city," Mayor Joe Fontana said as the committee directed staff to "process (the application) as expeditiously as possible."

The committee intended to hear 12 submissions and refer them to city staff to identify the most worthwhile projects and consider financing for them in next year's budget.

But the Fincore plan proved so irresistible, city hall agreed to move things along.

The project would be located on 0.8 hectares of land on the north side of the Thames River between Wellington and Waterloo streets.

The towers would join the 24-storey One London Place (107 metres tall) and the two 28-storey Renaissance apartment towers (95 metres) as among the tallest in the city.

When asked what Fincore was seeking from the city, Fincore vice-president Ron Robinson said, "In terms of cash, none."

But, he added, discussions are underway about a city-owned property to complete Fincore's ownership of the entire parcel. which he expects will be resolved satisfactorily.

Given concerns expressed about burdening taxpayers with the cost of underwriting a transformation of the core, the no-cash notion struck a receptive chord with the committee.

"This is a shining light of what can happen in London in terms of rejuvenating the local economy," said Coun. Paul Van Meerbergen. "This is what happens when you unleash the private sector."

Van Meerbergen and other members of council have opposed any tax increase or a levy proposed by Fontana to finance capital projects in the core.

Van Meerbergen suggested city hall must ensure the SoHo project is "fast-tracked."

Coun. Bud Polhill said it's important the project is helped along and allowed "to proceed as quickly as possible."

Coun. Joe Swan, committee chairperson, said, "We are excited to see such investment in our community."

Fontana said he was pleased the private sector feels so confident it's willing to invest in London this way.

"I think this will leverage additional investments on the Victoria hospital lands (immediately to the east)," he predicted.

Fincore president Loredana Onesan Bowler said afterward that barring any unforeseen problems, she expects shovels could go into the ground before year's end. Construction, which would provide about 1,000 jobs, is expected to take 30 months.

Bowler said the cost of the venture will far exceed $300 million once medical equipment and devices are installed.

The venture is expected to be one of the largest anti-aging and rejuvenation facilities in North America once completed.

--- --- ---

SoHo Wellington Centre

A $300-million residential-medical complex downtown on the north side of the Thames River between Wellington and Waterloo streets.
Two 26-storey residential towers would rank among city’s tallest buildings.
Its wellness and anti-aging centre would incorporate 35 townhouses, a 12-storey wellness centre, a retail component, cafes, parking for 1,005 cars, and a church — in addition to the high-rise condominiums and apartments.
The project would include medical facilities and parkland to which the public would have access.

Really incredible that this project requires no public funds.

[ldoto]

A new report confirms apartment vacancies in the London area have dropped in the last year.

A semi-annual survey by the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) shows vacancies in the London-St. Thomas area fell to 3.7% in April, down from 4.7% in April 2011.

Average rents went up 1.4% in the same period.

CMHC analyst Margot Stevenson said the decline in vacancies is partially due to growing demand with larger enrollments at Western University and Fanshawe College .

But she said the supply of apartments may also be tightening because of the uncertain economy.

“Potential first-time home buyers are choosing to stay in their apartments a bit longer,” said Stevenson.

The CMHC spring survey follows up on another taken last fall, showing the London area vacancy rates down to 3.8% in October, down 5% from the 2011 fall survey. The vacancy rate had been stuck at 5% for two years, near the historic high of 6%.

London saw a boom in apartment construction about five years ago that drove up overall housing starts.

But last year the market slowed dramatically with starts on only 400 apartment units.

The CMHC had predicted apartment construction would rebound this year to satisfy demand from baby boomers and professionals moving to the redeveloping downtown core.

But the latest CMHC monthly survey showed starts on only four apartment unit so far this year compared to 193 units in the first five months of 2011.

Stevenson said several large apartment projects should get underway later this year, starting with a 287-unit building in Old East London. Medallion Developments is now completing a 324 unit tower on the same site.

Stevenson said other future apartment projects include a student-focused building at 1235 Richmond Street and a Tricar Developments apartment tower on Sunningdale Road.

Stevenson said the lower vacancy rates will eventually spur the apartment market.

“Things should start improving this year but it will not be near the peak of over 1,000 units that we saw a few year ago,” said Stevenson.

Across Ontario, vacancy rates declined to 2.3 per cent in April, down from 2.5 per cent in the spring of 2011.

London has the third highest vacancy rate in major Ontario cities, behind Windsor and St. Catharines. Toronto had the lowest rate of 1.5%%:banana::banana:

[MolsonExport]

welcome back after a long absence, ldoto

[manny_santos]

In the latest chapter on the economy's war on London, Air Canada Jazz is cutting 200 jobs in London and moving some of the jobs to Halifax.

[MolsonExport]

In the latest news, passengers will have to load their own bags and fly their own booked flights, as Air Canada has laid off all employees, "to serve you better". Also, to raise a much needed $3600/year, Air Canada will be rebranded Budweiser Birds. "It is a great thing for London, and for Canada" said Mayor Joe Camel. "Budweiser is the most popular beer in the world and this will help to put Fahriburg on the map"

[manny_santos]

In the latest news, passengers will have to load their own bags and fly their own booked flights, as Air Canada has laid off all employees, "to serve you better". Also, to raise a much needed $3600/year, Air Canada will be rebranded Budweiser Birds. "It is a great thing for London, and for Canada" said Mayor Joe Camel. "Budweiser is the most popular beer in the world and this will help to put Fahriburg on the map"

That's bad for me, I'm flying on Air Canada next weekend.

[ldoto]

welcome back after a long absence, ldoto

Thanks!!!!:)

[Stevo26]

I heard that Timkin (ball bearings) is closing in...yup you guessed it, St. Thomas. when will the job hemorrhage ever end?

The jobs haemorrhage will probably end when Canadians agree to work for nothing, 12 hours a day, six days a week, with no holidays and no benefits.

We're living in a very 1984-like society now. I mean, if War = Peace, and Freedom = Slavery, then it isn't much of a stretch to say, Austerity = Prosperity.

[Snark]

The jobs hemorrhage will probably end when Canadians agree to work for nothing, 12 hours a day, six days a week, with no holidays and no benefits.

Bingo

This isn't a London problem. It's a fundamental restructuring in the domestic and global economy.

Folks (especially in manufacturing) here have a choice to make: either lower their standards of living to that of the nations where the manufacturing sector is relocating to, or abandon manufacturing and shift to other types of employment that continues to support the standard of living that they are accustomed to.

The same phenomenon has begun to creep into other sectors of the economy as well and will grow.

Sorry guys, but people in their 20's or younger will, on average, will have a lower standard of living than their parents - and this is a major reason as to why.

Capitalism in a pure form cares not for the corpses it leaves behind.

[manny_santos]

I agree with everything except one point, which I think isn't taken far enough.

Folks (especially in manufacturing) here have a choice to make: either lower their standards of living to that of the nations where the manufacturing sector is relocating to, or abandon manufacturing and shift to other types of employment that continues to support the standard of living that they are accustomed to.

I'd go as far as saying that our standards of living would end up below that of the countries where jobs have moved to, if Canadians make the first of the two choices proposed. I can't speak for all countries where jobs have moved to, but from my observations having lived in Mexico (home of the former Stiring Plant in St. Thomas and the former Teletech call center in London) for the past seven months, the standard of living is much higher than what many Canadians believe. Sure, there is still a lot of poverty, but I go by what I've personally observed. The cost of living is a fraction of that of Canada (even after factoring in their sales taxes, which are higher than ours): although I've been earning about $22 CAD per day, that amount of money goes a heck of a lot further than in Canada; more than enough to pay for rent, utilities, and food, and still have money leftover. The living standards in some areas are still below that of Canada as a whole, but their living standards are improving by leaps and bounds - arguably at our expense and the expense of the United States.

That said, I think that many Canadians could stand to lower their living standards just a little. Not a lot, but maybe they could give up buying a new iPhone once a year and wait two years instead and continue using a perfectly good device. Having lived abroad for the past seven months, I have come to recognize that many Canadians are never happy with what they have and always want more. I was surrounded by it in elementary and high school, at Western, and at Fanshawe. We do have an excess consumer culture. The culture extends to Canadian unions: workers are never happy with anything you give them, and they always ask for more and throw a temper tantrum when they don't get their way. I saw it first hand when I worked at Western; I used to be pro-union before I worked there.

*******

I do agree with moving to other forms of employment. That requires retraining, but more importantly, for young people it means that there needs to be much improved guidance in high school (instead of the current "do what you want" attitude, which doesn't cut it), and parents recognizing that they don't have all the answers. There are way too many students studying social sciences and not enough studying hard sciences and engineering. What was in high demand in 1972 or 1983 is not what's in high demand now. Universities cater too much to what their paying customers want; there is not enough control from the government to ensure that young people are being trained in fields where there is demand for jobs. Just look at the labour shortage in Alberta.

Sorry guys, but people in their 20's or younger will, on average, will have a lower standard of living than their parents

That, I agree with entirely. At my age, my father was married and was a manager in a large Canadian company. My mother was successfully working as well. Student debt was minimal; my father had none, and my mother had about $500, paid off within a year. The cost structure of universities in Canada has gotten out of control, and our economy is paying for it dearly.

One of the additional reasons is our unbalanced population, where the large baby boomer demographic isn't retiring; as a result, the middle-aged employees are stuck in entry level positions unable to advance, and the young people can't get the entry-level positions. I'm not suggesting the baby boomers should be forced to retire; I know with Canada's sky-high cost of living, my father can't afford to retire right now. But, those who can afford to retire should be retiring. We cannot turn our backs on young people; after all, the more money they earn, the more they'll be paying into the pension and tax funds that will fund our baby boomers as they retire.

*******

The good news for me, after almost a year, I may have new employment in Canada on the horizon. I might end up on the east coast.

[Wharn]

The cost of living is a fraction of that of Canada (even after factoring in their sales taxes, which are higher than ours): although I've been earning about $22 CAD per day, that amount of money goes a heck of a lot further than in Canada; more than enough to pay for rent, utilities, and food, and still have money leftover. The living standards in some areas are still below that of Canada as a whole, but their living standards are improving by leaps and bounds - arguably at our expense and the expense of the United States.

That won't last forever. Eventually, Mexican workers will become more productive and earn more, and as they do that they will start bidding up the price of goods and services. At some point, Mexican living standards will more or less converge with those in Canada and the United States. Think of it more as an "equalization" of fortunes across countries.

[Symz]

Saw this video on The London Free Press talking about how SoHo is on the rise. It also mentions the SoHo project.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2012/07/25/20026721.html

[Highinthesky]

You guy are completely ignoring the impact of currency on you manufacturing discussion. Over the past 5 to 10 years the Canadian dollar has steadily appreciated against not only the U.S., which just so happens to be our largest market, but also most other major currencies. As this happens it makes our good comparatively more expensive compared to our places like Mexico and even against good produced in the very country Canada is trying to sell their goods in. As long as this trend continues simply reducing labor costs won't solve the problem. Canada either has to increase productivity, which Canada has a poor track record in, to make general good most cost competitively or ship up stream to higher end production that requires a more educated work force.

You can see the inverse in the U.S. where the manufacturing sector has been growing since 2009. Many jobs Americans thought they had lost decades ago for good are coming back due to the U.S. dollar tanking against many other major foreign currencies. Adding to this trend is that China, one of the U.S.'s largest competitors, has seen their currency appreciate great overly the past 4 years against other major currencies.

[MrSlippery519]

You guy are completely ignoring the impact of currency on you manufacturing discussion. Over the past 5 to 10 years the Canadian dollar has steadily appreciated against not only the U.S., which just so happens to be our largest market, but also most other major currencies. As this happens it makes our good comparatively more expensive compared to our places like Mexico and even against good produced in the very country Canada is trying to sell their goods in. As long as this trend continues simply reducing labor costs won't solve the problem. Canada either has to increase productivity, which Canada has a poor track record in, to make general good most cost competitively or ship up stream to higher end production that requires a more educated work force.

You can see the inverse in the U.S. where the manufacturing sector has been growing since 2009. Many jobs Americans thought they had lost decades ago for good are coming back due to the U.S. dollar tanking against many other major foreign currencies. Adding to this trend is that China, one of the U.S.'s largest competitors, has seen their currency appreciate great overly the past 4 years against other major currencies.

You sir hit the nail on the head, our dollar plays a HUGE factor in what is manufactured in Canada and what is not at the moment. This will continue unless companies either change tactics or change how they go to market. It is interesting however see some manufacturing slowly coming back as China's wages and prices are increasing. That said China has a strangle hold on the majority of the market and can often dictate the price as they have the tooling and people to work.

I am a purchasing manager for an electronics distributor so I see first hand on a daily basis our customers (we sell to companies that are manufacturing in Canada) either moving to or from off shore for certain jobs they have.

[MolsonExport]

the single biggest reason for our currency rise is foreign demand for our resources, particularly oil. To some extend, Canada now has a petrodollar, and consequently, suffers from the Dutch Disease. Thanks, Alberta.

[Highinthesky]

Wow! I should stop late night posting. I'm surprised anyone even understood what I was saying.

[MrSlippery519]

Wow! I should stop late night posting. I'm surprised anyone even understood what I was saying.

Hey you had the basic idea...I had to re-read it a few times lol :cheers:

[manny_santos]

Spotted yesterday, from Emerging Leaders, funded in part by the City of London:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21294621/DOCUMENTS/Work%20in%20London%20-%20An%20Emerging%20Leaders%20Perspective.pdf

Of note, from the executive summary:

"Emerging Leaders believes that the single greatest deterrent to sustained growth is the loss of talent amongst the 20 to 44 year old workforce in London. We recognize, as do others, that there is an urgency around creating partnerships to keep and attract this critical demographic within London. Without this effort we will continue to under perform compared to other cities in our area."

This is timely based on my experience. Today I received my first job offer in Canada since returning from my work term abroad, but it's in Kingston. The good news for me is that it is a job in my field, something I never been able to find since graduating. Over the past six weeks I have been applying for numerous jobs, both in my field and related to my field, and the only bite I got in London was a commission-based sales job. In London, literally none of the companies I applied to or contacted are hiring. So, sorry London, but once again I am forced to take my talents elsewhere and contribute to someone else's economy.

So, I'm part of the problem, but I don't have a lot of choice. If only more London employers would take risks on young professionals (and not limit themselves to friends of the old boys network in Old North and Warbler Woods), more young people might consider staying in London.

It has been proven to me once again that the "City of Opportunity" slogan is false advertising...

[Stevo26]

Spotted yesterday, from Emerging Leaders, funded in part by the City of London:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/21294621/DOCUMENTS/Work%20in%20London%20-%20An%20Emerging%20Leaders%20Perspective.pdf

Of note, from the executive summary:

"Emerging Leaders believes that the single greatest deterrent to sustained growth is the loss of talent amongst the 20 to 44 year old workforce in London. We recognize, as do others, that there is an urgency around creating partnerships to keep and attract this critical demographic within London. Without this effort we will continue to under perform compared to other cities in our area."

This is timely based on my experience. Today I received my first job offer in Canada since returning from my work term abroad, but it's in Kingston. The good news for me is that it is a job in my field, something I never been able to find since graduating. Over the past six weeks I have been applying for numerous jobs, both in my field and related to my field, and the only bite I got in London was a commission-based sales job. In London, literally none of the companies I applied to or contacted are hiring. So, sorry London, but once again I am forced to take my talents elsewhere and contribute to someone else's economy.

So, I'm part of the problem, but I don't have a lot of choice. If only more London employers would take risks on young professionals (and not limit themselves to friends of the old boys network in Old North and Warbler Woods), more young people might consider staying in London.

It has been proven to me once again that the "City of Opportunity" slogan is false advertising...

molsonexport said it best: "London is the city of flopertunity". Personally, I know what it's like to have to move to another city to find work. When I finished studies at Western in 1987, I had to move to Toronto to find anything resembling half-decent employment, since there was none to be had in London.

Through serendipity and a number of other fortuitous things that happened in my life, I eventually ended up finding work in the government sector and ultimately returned to London, where I expect to remain (at least until I retire in about ten years from now). My decision to return was based on wanting to be closer to family, and Toronto's generally outrageous housing costs.

Mind you, I haven't the foggiest idea about where I want to retire, I just know that it will likely be somewhere other than the Forest City.

I don't really love London. I find it to be a quiet, fairly bland city. The rash of anonymous big-box stores that has afflicted London lately isn't helping matters any. But I can get by here, even if I can't thrive. A long time ago, I gave up the hope that London would ever become anything approaching what a dynamic, lively city would look like.

Indeed, if there's anything that sets London apart from a lot of cities, it's the tendency to talk big plans and make lots of noises about making the city really modern and attractive, but not actually making good on any of that talk. That's the way it has been for as long as I've lived here, and will probably stay that way. There seems to be none of the political will or money needed to move forward with those ambitious plans, anyway.

[MolsonExport]

don't really love London. I find it to be a quiet, fairly bland city. The rash of anonymous big-box stores that has afflicted London lately isn't helping matters any. But I can get by here, even if I can't thrive. A long time ago, I gave up the hope that London would ever become anything approaching what a dynamic, lively city would look like.

Indeed, if there's anything that sets London apart from a lot of cities, it's the tendency to talk big plans and make lots of noises about making the city really modern and attractive, but not actually making good on any of that talk. That's the way it has been for as long as I've lived here, and will probably stay that way. There seems to be none of the political will or money needed to move forward with those ambitious plans, anyway.


I wholeheartedly concur. I am a Montreal transplant, and try as I might, I just can't feel the love for London. Most changes to the city are of the banal big box variety. A good place to live, but there is really nothing to see or do here. This goes for some other medium sized Ontario cities (e.g., the four-headed monster, Ste Catherines, Windsor, Brantford), but fewer similarly-sized medium-sized Canadian cities...QC, Victoria, Halifax, Saskatoon, even Regina....much more to see and do.

[haljackey]

:previous:

While I agree that this is true I find that others are actually proud to live in their city. I notice a lot of people in Windsor defend their city with a passion whenever there's smack talk about the city's economic performance. Those in K/W seem to be quite happy living there and enjoy the history of the town.

Londoners could care less about this city. Most shrug it off and will agree with many complaints. That lack of optimism can be a negative, but who could blame em? There's little to defend here.

[go_leafs_go02]

I must say, that growing up in London, I was extremely proud to be from there, and before that I lived in Chatham, in which London was such a huge jump-up. Then I ended up in Hamilton, doing schooling, in which I found I loved London more and more (not a fan of Hamilton in anyway).

Nevertheless, in the last few years, I can't say I'm as proud of London as I was. The City has gone downhill in so many ways, in the economy, in transportation, in being innovative. It used to share more in common with cities like Mississauga, Kitchener, Waterloo, while now it's being lumped into Windsor, Sarnia, Chatham, which from what I've seen, doesn't impress me much.

[north 42]

I wholeheartedly concur. I am a Montreal transplant, and try as I might, I just can't feel the love for London. Most changes to the city are of the banal big box variety. A good place to live, but there is really nothing to see or do here. This goes for some other medium sized Ontario cities (e.g., the four-headed monster, Ste Catherines, Windsor, Brantford), but fewer similarly-sized medium-sized Canadian cities...QC, Victoria, Halifax, Saskatoon, even Regina....much more to see and do.

Actually the Windsor area also includes Metro Detroit which has a million things to do and see, so you can't really lump Windsor in with other mid sized Canadian cities when citing things to do. It's a mistake many people make when looking to the city, thinking of Windsor in isolation as opposed to the region in which it sits. We have 5 million people within a half hour radius of the city. Whereas London is surrounded by farmland and St. Thomas, and not much else. Our city, although fighting high unemployment, is actually improving in most ways, so things aren't really that bad. For London, it seems as though things are not getting better, but actually getting worse in many areas.

[Blitz]

^ I was about to say the same thing. I've been kind of stuck in London for several years and I miss Windsor so much. I want to be able to go to a spontaneous Tigers or Red Wings game or eat in Little Italy or just ride along the river.

London is a nice place to live but sometimes it feels like the middle of nowhere.

[MolsonExport]

^not quite true, as we have the teeming metropolises of St. Thomas and Strathroy....just a 30 minute car drive away :D

Point taken about Windsor. Of course Detroit--for all its problems--has with its 4.5 million metro many entertainment options.


It almost shocking how bereft London is of attractions, when compared against say, Halifax. Oh well, that is what you get for being a "tertiary city" in Ontario. (the term is not my own, but something that I have seen in several of the submitted research protocols I evaluate. Yes, I know, I know (Halifax being a capital city, by the sea, history, etc.) but c'mon London. Lousy AMdeC-B fountains and pathetic metal trees.

[go_leafs_go02]

London's heyday seemed to be 2000 - 2006 or so.

Got the new library, JLC, economy was booming. London was growing. Knights exploded in popularity.

Since 2006-2007, London hasn't changed much. Some things are different, but not often for the better.

[manny_santos]

Another week, and London has once again been carefully chosen by a large business for another large-scale round of job losses.

http://www.lfpress.com/2012/11/13/london-call-centre-moving-operations-to-philippines-eliminating-more-than-100-jobs

Will the business world's War on London ever end? Economically I am so glad I got out when I did.

[bolognium]

"The Swedish company operates 72 call centres in 26 countries."

Not really surprising that they're closing. If they can make more money by moving operations elsewhere, why exactly should they stay in town? This isn't a War on London, it's business. Call centres close.

[manny_santos]

"The Swedish company operates 72 call centres in 26 countries."

Not really surprising that they're closing. If they can make more money by moving operations elsewhere, why exactly should they stay in town? This isn't a War on London, it's business. Call centres close.

Oh, I agree with you 100%. :)

It just bothers me watching London going down in flames, and it feels like London is getting unfairly picked on by the business world.

[Highinthesky]

After reading the last few posts I can't help but shake my head. I'm stuck wondering just what exactly do you expect from London? Molsonexport can't love London after moving from Montreal. Well duh, if your frame of reference for London is Montreal it is going to come up horribly short.
People are complaining that London is bland and quiet. Well outside of Toronto or Ottawa please tell me the city or municipality in Ontario that has significantly more entertainment options then London. You compare it to Cities like Halifax, Regina, and Saskatoon which happen to all be the only centers of consequence for more than a days drive, well not Regina and Saskatoon but I've been to both and I'm not sure how they are so much better than London anyway. If any of those cities were a two hours drive from Toronto they look very much like London.
Finally people complain about jobs and again I read the papers and outside of Toronto I'm hard pressed to find all these Ontario cities that are just booming.

I think you all have unrealistic expectations for London and for some reason you are all horribly disappointed when unsurprisingly London doesn't stack up.

[Wharn]

Another week, and London has once again been carefully chosen by a large business for another large-scale round of job losses.

http://www.lfpress.com/2012/11/13/london-call-centre-moving-operations-to-philippines-eliminating-more-than-100-jobs

Will the business world's War on London ever end? Economically I am so glad I got out when I did.

I was always thinking the same myself, and until dabbling in urban economics I wasn't sure why. London may be suffering from the effects of agglomeration economies, which basically says is more efficient for businesses to locate in larger centres due their ability to share labour pools and other inputs. Toronto, in this case, is the agglomeration. The frightening thing about this theory is that smaller centres eventually die off, unless the large centre starts suffering from severe diseconomies of scale due to congestion, high land prices, etc. You can have cities that are too large, but not cities that are too small. In order for London to rise, Toronto will have to burn. Which may very well happen if they stay the course.

After reading the last few posts I can't help but shake my head. I'm stuck wondering just what exactly do you expect from London? Molsonexport can't love London after moving from Montreal. Well duh, if your frame of reference for London is Montreal it is going to come up horribly short.
People are complaining that London is bland and quiet. Well outside of Toronto or Ottawa please tell me the city or municipality in Ontario that has significantly more entertainment options then London. You compare it to Cities like Halifax, Regina, and Saskatoon which happen to all be the only centers of consequence for more than a days drive, well not Regina and Saskatoon but I've been to both and I'm not sure how they are so much better than London anyway. If any of those cities were a two hours drive from Toronto they look very much like London.
Finally people complain about jobs and again I read the papers and outside of Toronto I'm hard pressed to find all these Ontario cities that are just booming.

I think you all have unrealistic expectations for London and for some reason you are all horribly disappointed when unsurprisingly London doesn't stack up.

It's not necessarily that we have high expectations, it's that we know this city could be doing better but it chooses not to. The fact that Ontario sucks outside of Toronto is largely the fault of our good friend McGuinty, I don't hold anything against London for the shitty economy. But the road system, transit, and urban planning can all be improved.

[manny_santos]

Finally people complain about jobs and again I read the papers and outside of Toronto I'm hard pressed to find all these Ontario cities that are just booming.

I think you all have unrealistic expectations for London and for some reason you are all horribly disappointed when unsurprisingly London doesn't stack up.

I now live in Kingston and the economy here is much better than London's. I struggled for years to find work in my field in London, took almost no effort to get a good job in my field in Kingston. I'm making a lot more money there than I ever did in London. Unemployment rate in Kingston is about two percentage points lower than London. There are "now hiring" signs everywhere, even at fast food restaurants and grocery stores.

Kingston, for its size, is a great city. There are plenty of great restaurant options, and there's live entertainment every night somewhere.

The people of Kingston are also extremely friendly and polite. It's a lot easier to meet people there than in London. The generally closed-off nature of Londoners is something that really bothers me about London.

Among those I've met outside the London area who have been to London or have friends there, the comments I hear about the city are pretty negative. For example, two people I met in Central America who have been to London named the "awful public transit" as the only thing they could remember about the city.

I would love to see London be more than it is. I would also love to be able to be proud of this city. I still read the Free Press online every day, and check out this forum daily, to see what's happening in London. But the city has just so many problems, that I cannot possibly ever live in the city again as long as things remain as they are. The city could be so much more than it is.

[Highinthesky]

I'm not trying to pick a fight here but I really have to take issue with some of your points.

I don't know what field of work you're in but it doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on one city when it is easier finding a job in a particular field in another. For example up until just recently, and possibly still, it would not be a surprise if someone working in the tech field had an easier time finding employment in KW or Ottawa then London. As far as the employment rate goes, I would argue that London's unemployment is to a great degree negatively impacted by the large plant closings in St Thomas which is part of London's CMA. So when unemployment numbers are released they are negatively or positively influenced by what is happening in places like St Thomas and Strathroy.

Comments on good restaurants, live entrainment and friendly people is purely conjecture. Are you really saying that London doesn't have good restaurants and that you can't find live entrainment? Also I'm not originally from London and moved here in my late teen for school. I never have had issue with people being closed-off. That is not to say I haven't met people who are like that, but you will find that in any place.

[manny_santos]

I don't know what field of work you're in but it doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on one city when it is easier finding a job in a particular field in another.

I am a business professional and work in consulting. All areas of a regional economy are interconnected and even if the majority of the job problems in the London area are in manufacturing, it causes greater competition for other jobs.

For example, with all the people put out of work in manufacturing, many are left unemployed, while others who find other jobs are often making a fraction of what they were making before. That means less spending power. That means car dealerships, retailers, restaurants, and other businesses have lower sales. Lower sales means less money to pay workers, which leads to more part-time work and more unemployment. That affects virtually all sectors of the economy. While my industry has not been severely affected directly by the economic issues in London, it has been affected indirectly, and job opportunities in many industries in London are limited. The notable exception is medicine.

Comments on good restaurants, live entrainment and friendly people is purely conjecture. Are you really saying that London doesn't have good restaurants and that you can't find live entrainment?

It is fairly well known among long-time Londoners that live entertainment in London has dwindled in quantity over the past 15 years. The loss of The Embassy and The Brunswick Hotel were big blows, and most of the other clubs that previously had live music only have DJs now. As for restaurants, I admittedly have not tried every single restaurant in London, but a well-respected restaurant publication (whose name escapes me) has commented year after year that London is best avoided if looking for good restaurants.

As for the friendliness of people, I don't even have to talk about my own experiences. My mother has lived all over Canada and found London the most difficult to meet people in. And someone I work with has a friend that moved to London last year with her husband, has lived all over North America, and she has found London by far the most difficult to make friends in. She found instant friends in every other city she has lived in, and yet has yet to make a single friend in London. In essence, what exists in London is not normal in other cities.

[bolognium]

Comments on good restaurants, live entrainment and friendly people is purely conjecture. Are you really saying that London doesn't have good restaurants and that you can't find live entrainment?

Twenty minutes ago I was in the Music Hall watching Sloan play live. I actually got in for free thanks to one of the best neighbours I'll likely ever meet.

AND I ate at Shmokey's in the Historic London Mall today. I can't praise that place enough, you guys need to visit.

[ssiguy]

Hey compared to Vancouver is nirvana in terms of economic prospects. There are jobs in Vancouver but Vancouver is a very low wage city with housing nearly quadruple the price of London. Currently there are only 6 homes for sale in Vancouver and the bordering cities for under $600k. People out here are poor but worse than that they are in debt beyond belief. Trust me, the standard of living in London is MUCH higher than Vancouver.

Yes London could do more for itself but it's one hell of a nice city. Saskatoon is pretty and Regina less so but have very high crime rates and have no where near as much to do or as lively as London. Of course the grass is always greener but I have been to every major city in this country except for NS & PEI and London still ranks as having one of the highest qualities of life.

We all love to bitch about our cities but shy of London's horrid transportation system, Londoners are relatively little to bitch about.

[Highinthesky]

A business professional that works in consulting. Trying to win a vague competition?

Sorry to hear your mom and friend have had such a problem in London. It completely contradicts my own experience having been here about 10 years but again these comments along with a vague reference to some article you can't remember regarding the quality of restaurants being poor is just more conjecture.

[K85]

I love the people here, met and know lots. Good eats all around, as "good restaurants" is grotesquely subjective. People can nit pick all they want.

Traffic = same as other similar sized cities, though lacking a true way to get from one side to the other, 98% of people can make it from White Oaks to Masonville in a short period of time, only feeling it's long because they have fast food type mindsets. Including bus service, it isn't bad... seriously. People need to REALLY evaluate what they feel as bad is.

People = Working in the social services field, and only speaking from my experiences, friendly people, great vibes, though pretty introverted, as a lot of people in a lot of cities are. I can just as easily strike up a conversation with anyone, as I can be those who doesn't say anything to anyone in 4 hours at the mall.

Live entertainment = I can find plenty of local artists and whatnot when I want, visit pubs and places for shows. Just have to spend some time on finding it. Not being in the paper doesn't mean it's not there.

In general, EVERYONE can find faults with ANYTHING, ANYWHERE. What people need to do, and dammit when it bothers me that people don't, is look at the positives. I love downtown, I love the stores we have in the burbs, and love the people. I hate the hookers on Dundas (live off of it), I hate the lack of social services for people who need it, I hate the shitty council and mayor we have, but I live with those. I take pride in every place I can ever call home. Bad or not.

[Simpseatles]

I love the people here, met and know lots. Good eats all around, as "good restaurants" is grotesquely subjective. People can nit pick all they want.

Traffic = same as other similar sized cities, though lacking a true way to get from one side to the other, 98% of people can make it from White Oaks to Masonville in a short period of time, only feeling it's long because they have fast food type mindsets. Including bus service, it isn't bad... seriously. People need to REALLY evaluate what they feel as bad is.

People = Working in the social services field, and only speaking from my experiences, friendly people, great vibes, though pretty introverted, as a lot of people in a lot of cities are. I can just as easily strike up a conversation with anyone, as I can be those who doesn't say anything to anyone in 4 hours at the mall.

Live entertainment = I can find plenty of local artists and whatnot when I want, visit pubs and places for shows. Just have to spend some time on finding it. Not being in the paper doesn't mean it's not there.

In general, EVERYONE can find faults with ANYTHING, ANYWHERE. What people need to do, and dammit when it bothers me that people don't, is look at the positives. I love downtown, I love the stores we have in the burbs, and love the people. I hate the hookers on Dundas (live off of it), I hate the lack of social services for people who need it, I hate the shitty council and mayor we have, but I live with those. I take pride in every place I can ever call home. Bad or not.

^Amazing post K85! Couldn't have said it better myself. :worship:

Yes the economy is shitty right now, and yes there are a lot of other things that suck about London, but we have a fascinating history, great people, thriving culture, an improving downtown and many other things to be proud of.

Like K85 I take pride in being a Londoner. Not because I think it's the greatest place in the world, but because I was born and raised here, so I don't have a choice. I could either complain about how much it sucks all the time, or I could learn more about the place I call home, be proud of it and think about how to make it better.

[MolsonExport]

Twenty minutes ago I was in the Music Hall watching Sloan play live. I actually got in for free thanks to one of the best neighbours I'll likely ever meet.

AND I ate at Shmokey's in the Historic London Mall today. I can't praise that place enough, you guys need to visit.

Funny, I was saying to my wife while driving past the London Mall today that we should check out Schmokey's BBQ, as I have heard nothing but good things about that joint in the shitty mall.

[Snark]

It is fairly well known among long-time Londoners that live entertainment in London has dwindled in quantity over the past 15 years. The loss of The Embassy and The Brunswick Hotel were big blows

Hmmm... The loss of a couple of near-skid row dives playing local garage bands vs. the introduction of the 3rd most successful mid-sized entertainment facility in the world playing some of the biggest and most successful acts in the world. What happened to thinking big and getting out of the small town mindset?

....and most of the other clubs that previously had live music only have DJs now.

That's the common trend everywhere these days. That's not a London thing. That said, I know some folks in the local music scene in London, and it's doing just fine thanks. You aren't looking very hard I guess. Try the Music Hall for starters.

As for restaurants, I admittedly have not tried every single restaurant in London, but a well-respected restaurant publication (whose name escapes me) has commented year after year that London is best avoided if looking for good restaurants.

So what's your opinion, as opposed to this "unknown publication"? Where have been that you didn't like? Where haven't you been?

As for the sort-of-quoted assertion of your unrecalled-but-well-respected publication, that's an all-out lie. Period. But, hey that's just my opinion, so a very quick check on the web took me to the Urbanspoon website - where it lists over 120 restaurants with an 80% or greater rating. Tripadvisor lists over 100 with 4 or 5 star ratings. True, such stats are not from some food snob publication, but I would suggest that it would seem that you just might find a decent place to eat in the city - if one tried to do so.

I would suggest that the unrecalled publication that you refer to is not likely local but rather out of Toronto. The supposed reviewer likely never has visited London, as it is seen as unfashionable for such people to be outside of the Centre Of The Universe.

Perhaps their complaint is that there's no Mövenpick in London. :rolleyes:

[manny_santos]

I'm sorry to say that I don't recall the name of the publication (which was an annual one), and it is not online. It was well-publicized on TV and in the Free Press for a number of years in a row whenever it came out, and it was heavily criticized by individuals whose idea of "good food" was burgers at Joe Kool's.

I will write more when I have more time.

[MolsonExport]

some of my fave London Restaurants:
-Massey's (Indian)
-Garlic's (this and that) and next door, the Tasting Room
-Auberge du Petit Prince (French)
-La Casa (Italian)
-Korean Restaurant (that is what it is called: Adelaide/Horton)
-David's Bistro

[MrSlippery519]

Heard on the radio this morning that Novak's is closing, I cannot believe after being there for almost 100 years they are closing.

Sad day without a question :(

[MolsonExport]

^Ever since MEC opened, I thought that it was only a matter of time.

[MrSlippery519]

I really did not think MEC was going to take that much business from them however they must have. Novak's seemed busy every time I went in there, bought all my stuff pretty religiously from them for our yearly Algonquin trip.

Shame to see them go.

[warpus]

I really did not think MEC was going to take that much business from them however they must have. Novak's seemed busy every time I went in there, bought all my stuff pretty religiously from them for our yearly Algonquin trip.

Shame to see them go.

It is a bit of a shame, but Novack's really has nothing on MEC's prices.

I do a lot of backpacking tours around the world and shop at places like Novacks frequently.. and Novacks used to be my store of choice, until MEC showed up in town..

Their prices are just so low.. Novacks isn't able to compete. At least from my experience.

[MolsonExport]

LFP article: http://www.lfpress.com/2012/11/19/downtown-london-business-icon-novacks-closing

[Blitz]

I haven't really experienced that 'closed-off' thing either. London does seem to have that reputation though...Windsorites seem to think that Londoners are uptight snobs but I haven't noticed that at all.

I do have a problem with the traffic though and no way is it the same as in other similar sized cities. In Kitchener and Windsor you can just hop on an expressway to get across town.

[MolsonExport]

Apparently CAMI (Ingersoll) could face massive job losses. LFP headline article today was that there is a looming showdown between CAMI and the former Saturn assembly plant in Tennessee. One plant will get the contract, the other will probably be shuttered. Here we go again; Electromotive redux.

[haljackey]

Not just CAMI, there are a lot of suppliers in London and area that make parts for CAMI.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into another Ford Plant thing...

[MolsonExport]

article here: http://www.lfpress.com/2012/11/19/ingersolls-cami-auto-plant-competition-with-plant-in-spring-hill-tenn-over-new-car

[ssiguy]

London without Novacks...........kinda weird. Where is the Mountain Co=op in London, is it also downtown?

The article didn't say why it was closing..........is it due to lower sales or just that they just didn't want to run it any longer?

BTW, I may be waaaaaay out of date but is Kingsmills still going?