[Pimpmasterdac]

Make no mistake, Fontana's a moron. He certainly doesn't understand urban economics or even basic planning principles. Given that the city has plans to ultimately upgrade the whole road to a freeway (which he has supported), building a parclo right now is nothing more than counter-productive. That being said, he's still a much better fit for the job than the bubblehead we had for the past decade.

To be fair Fontana probably doesn't know much about highway staging & planning, or difference between a parclo and stack interchanges. If VMP were a freeway already I'm sure it would be a noticeable feature and would warrant it being free-flowing. Know how London operates, when (if) VMP becomes a full freeway, only then people will realize this short-sighted view and need to correct at a greater cost than the ~$35 million to upgrade it.

I agree, it would be more beneficial to make interchanges on the VMP in town, than upgrade the Trumpet at the end of town. More people would have pratical use of it and would get traffic moving more efficiently.

I am definitely in favour of creating a free-flowing interchange over a Parclo, the one that hijackey proposes is similar, though not as complex with subway overpasses and collector-express interchanges, as the 401 & Allen (ie. Spadina Expressway) which in today's economy would prolly get you most of the VMP interchanges built

http://www.blogto.com/upload/2010/07/20100712-401-interchange.jpg

[haljackey]

Ok every day on my commute I drive through Wonderland and Bradley.

It angers me every time I see that Bradley Avenue street sign on Wonderland. Why label it if it's just a stub on both sides? Unless you want to get to the Westmount Library, A&W or the Athletic Club there's no use for it.

It frustrates me that Bradley still hasn't been extended to Wonderland. It would take a lot of strain off the clogged 2-lane Southdale. Yesterday I was on Southdale and a pair of buses (the Wonderland and Warncliffe) both made stops between Warncliffe and Wonderland and completely choked westbound traffic along this entire stretch. At least build some sidewalks and bus bays!

[MrSlippery519]

Ok every day on my commute I drive through Wonderland and Bradley.

It angers me every time I see that Bradley Avenue street sign on Wonderland. Why label it if it's just a stub on both sides? Unless you want to get to the Westmount Library, A&W or the Athletic Club there's no use for it.

It frustrates me that Bradley still hasn't been extended to Wonderland. It would take a lot of strain off the clogged 2-lane Southdale. Yesterday I was on Southdale and a pair of buses (the Wonderland and Warncliffe) both made stops between Warncliffe and Wonderland and completely choked westbound traffic along this entire stretch. At least build some sidewalks and bus bays!

No kidding, I work just south of the fake Brady sign and it pisses me off it's taking them so long. I would take that road home and to work every day as I live in the east end.

[haljackey]

...And it's not like there's a major blockade in the way. No water systems, no development, no nothing.

The land is flat so grading won't take much work at all. Just get a few shovels in the ground and top it with asphalt.

[Simpseatles]

I suspect that they are waiting to build that section of Bradley untill the new subdivisions around there absolutely warrant its construction. And any further extension of Bradley will be at the whim of the developments around it. If the part between Wharncliffe and Wonderland is built, it may just be a stub used for the subdivision and plazas, as the section immediatly after White Oak rd. could be built at a completely different time. I think it's more about meeting the needs of those new developments, than actually building one cohesive, necessary transportation link for all residents.:shrug:

[MrSlippery519]

I suspect that they are waiting to build that section of Bradley untill the new subdivisions around there absolutely warrant its construction. And any further extension of Bradley will be at the whim of the developments around it. If the part between Wharncliffe and Wonderland is built, it may just be a stub used for the subdivision and plazas, as the section immediatly after White Oak rd. could be built at a completely different time. I think it's more about meeting the needs of those new developments, than actually building one cohesive, necessary transportation link for all residents.:shrug:

You might be onto something, it's beyond me why the city does not look at it and think..."how would adding a 4 lane road that goes from the east end to the west end help improve traffic flow"

I just do not get it, also as haljackey said there is literally nothing stopping them you can stand at Wonderland and look east, it's flat and free of anything stopping this from happening.

[manny_santos]

You might be onto something, it's beyond me why the city does not look at it and think..."how would adding a 4 lane road that goes from the east end to the west end help improve traffic flow"

I just do not get it, also as haljackey said there is literally nothing stopping them you can stand at Wonderland and look east, it's flat and free of anything stopping this from happening.

Extending Bradley now would alleviate some congestion on Southdale, meaning they could delay widening by several years. I would speculate the Bradley extension would cost significantly less than widening Southdale, both in terms of financial cost and the disruption to traffic flow on Southdale.

[ForestryW]

According to the city's 2004 transportation master plan Bradley is expected to be extended by 2014, so they are still on schedule.

Has the Wharncliffe Rd. underpass beneath the CN line at Horton St been widened yet? According to the TMP it was supposed to be completed by 2009.

[MolsonExport]

^nope. Not at all.

[haljackey]

Both rail overpasses on Warncliffe Road are major congestion points. At least the CN one is 3 lanes allowing slightly more traffic to be pushed through (2 southbound lanes, 1 northbound), but the CP one is a problem.

The asphalt under CN overrpass was recently resurfaced which tells me nothing will happen here any time soon. The CP overpass is projected to get replaced in 2020, but it will probably be later than that knowing this city's reputation when it comes to widening roads...

[Pimpmasterdac]

Especially since both those rail crossings would touch the third rails of road expansion in London. CN & CP would have to throw in some money which they loath to do, look how long Hale & Trafalgar overpass took to do, Sarina finally after decades.

As well both crossings require significant property expropriation to make Wharncliffe/Western Road at least 4 lanes the full length. London's still pussyfooting around with Commissioners & Southdale widening because they're scared of offending property owners. I don't see them growing a pair with the rail crossings.

They need to do all these NOW! Though Fontana & Co. seem to use all their political & financial capital on 401 interchanges, while useful doesn't help Londoners on their day to day commutes.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Railways don't need to throw as much money into crossings as you may think. Usually level crossings are the responsibility of the railways, but most bridges and underpasses are usually (not 100% sure) maintained by the city. Even so, if the city wants to widen the underpass, or bridge, that doesn't effect the railway except to delay trains during construction. So from the railway's point of view, they don't want to throw money at these types of widening.

Now, if CP wants to expand their line to two tracks through London (which might happen eventually, as that was one of the things that held back the Sarnia Road bridge construction), they would have a cause to spend some money to redo underpasses or bridges.

Still, railways usually don't pay as much as the city or higher levels of governments pay. If the city wants to widen a road, that's their problem, not the railway's.

[Wharn]

Still, railways usually don't pay as much as the city or higher levels of governments pay. If the city wants to widen a road, that's their problem, not the railway's.

I think that analysis is a little unfair. The railway, by not being made to fully realize the economic costs of keeping their existing crossings (traffic congestion resulting from bottlenecks), is essentially imposing a negative externality on the rest of the city.

Were they granted the authority to do so, it would be just for the city to charge an annual tax on overpasses and level crossings that are found to be traffic bottlenecks. This would give CN and CP an added incentive to update their infrastructure, or it could be used by the city to fund the upgrades should the railways choose not to do so on their own dime.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Railway companies are suppose to contribute at least 15% of the cost of expansions/overpasses according to federal law. That's a bare minimum, let alone what these crossing do to screw over the traffic flow in London.

I honestly wish the London actually played hardball with these railway companies, told them we're going to expand CN or CP rail crossings with or without their consent. I'm sure at C overpass on Wharncliffe if the city called them out and said they'd either expand the 1 track and get the 15% or you pitch in more to upgrade it 2 tracks, it would put CP in a pressure cooker to actually pay their share if not more.

But the City of London doesn't like to rock the boat or do anything that would cause as /A\ News would call "controversy", and lets railway companies that holding London back continue to get off the hook. London should set a date, start the expropriation and get on with alleviating congestion on these arteries!

[haljackey]

Gah I hate this. Finish up already.

http://www.london.ca/Road_Construction/images/Dundas_June22.jpg

[K85]

If you hit those bumps fast enough driving towards downtown, your car bounces like a see-saw. Pretty fun, until I scrapped by front then back... going 70 is NOT advised :)

[Wharn]

If you hit those bumps fast enough driving towards downtown, your car bounces like a see-saw. Pretty fun, until I scrapped by front then back... going 70 is NOT advised :)

I wouldn't be doing 70 down Dundas even if there was no construction. Some parts of the road are in awful shape, there are usually cops, and there are always dazed and careless pedestrians wandering out from between cars.

[haljackey]

Yeah I rarely get above 40 on Dundas between Ridout and Colbourne.

[ForestryW]

I don't know why I'm just noticing this but I actually really like the podium of those twin apartment towers on the right (City Place is it?)

Too bad the towers don't match the podium.

[Blitz]

The towers are nice places to live and are well kept - I live in the east tower. Just wish I could open my windows these days without hearing all the construction noise on Dundas.

[londonbuilders]

Hi guys

Compared to London ,England is still way better. Over here we have an infrastructure that belongs to a museum. And we have the Olympics.

[Kokkei Mizu]

This story is a few days old, but nobody has posted it, and thought it would be of interest. I think some people do have a point. Is London big enough for something like this yet?

Inspired by the Car Free Festival, Mayor Joe Fontana is floating the idea of closing off a section of Dundas St. to vehicles -- permanently.

Fontana is mulling the idea of turning Dundas St. between Wellington and Ridout streets into a pedestrian mall featuring arts, music, cafes and shopping.

"Bringing Dundas back to the people, as opposed to the cars, would be something . . . good," said Fontana, who said he believes the addition of a pedestrian mall would help revitalize the downtown.

"You've got to attract people, and I think that's what they want."

But a pedestrian mall isn't what some Dundas St. business owners want.

Jonathon Bancroft-Snell, owner of the Jonathon Bancroft-Snell Gallery, said the idea would be disastrous for businesses and might drive him out of London.

"You don't close off a street just because you think it's a nice idea to have a walkway," he said.

There aren't enough people living downtown and there are too few businesses to attract sufficient foot traffic, said Bancroft-Snell.

It wouldn't be the first time London tried to turn a section of Dundas St. into a pedestrian mall.

In the 1970s, merchants created a pedestrian-style mall along Dundas St. from Lyle to Adelaide streets. The project was a flop -- some blamed it for destroying the once-thriving strip.

A handful of other Canada cities -- including Calgary, Ottawa, Montreal, Vancouver, Halifax and St. John's -- have pedestrian malls.

"If Dundas St. was made (into) a permanent walkway, then I would look at changing locations, even if that meant changing cities," said Bancroft-Snell, who moved his gallery to Dundas St. from the former Galleria London (now Citi Plaza) six years ago.

But Bancroft-Snell said he supports temporary shutdowns of the street for special occasions such as the Car Free Festival, concerts or parades.

Peter Vergiris, owner of the Mascot Restaurant, draws many of his customers from the nearby bus stops on Dundas St.

Closing the street to traffic, including LTC buses, means the eatery would lose business, Vergiris said. "The buses bring the people downtown," said Vergiris, who has operated the restaurant for 40 years.

A pedestrian mall might be possible in the summer when many people visit downtown for festivals, but it would never fly in the winter, Vergiris said.

Three more Car Free Festivals on Dundas St. between Wellington and Ridout streets are scheduled on July 1, Aug. 6-7 and Sept. 17-18.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/06/23/18328196.html

[Snark]

This story is a few days old, but nobody has posted it, and thought it would be of interest. I think some people do have a point. Is London big enough for something like this yet?

No, and it won't happen for a number of reasons beyond the city's size.

JF is just musing out loud and the local rag has picked up on it and is trying to generate some controversy.

[manny_santos]

No, and it won't happen for a number of reasons beyond the city's size.

JF is just musing out loud and the local rag has picked up on it and is trying to generate some controversy.

What are some of those reasons, aside from London Transit?

[Simpseatles]

Hi guys

Compared to London ,England is still way better. Over here we have an infrastructure that belongs to a museum. And we have the Olympics.

Huh? Not sure what your trying to say there, but from my knowledge London, England has better infrastructure.


I was not aware that Dundas St E was once pedestrian only. I think that today, the priority should be getting the damn buses off the street, and building a bus depot on one of the many empty parking lots around the core. This is an obvious step towards making the street more attractive.

[ForestryW]

They should do something similar to the King St revitalization here in Kitchener. Keep it open to traffic but make pedestrians the priority.

[Wharn]

Hi guys

Compared to London ,England is still way better. Over here we have an infrastructure that belongs to a museum. And we have the Olympics.

Your infrastructure may be ancient, but it's better to have something ancient than nothing at all.

This story is a few days old, but nobody has posted it, and thought it would be of interest. I think some people do have a point. Is London big enough for something like this yet?


Personally I think it's a bad idea. Sure, it would work great in the summer months, but the foot traffic would die off completely during the winter. Despite the fact that we live in a cold, snowy city, few Londoners seem to enjoy the idea of walking around outside in January. The students are particularly bad and will do anything to avoid going outside. We also don't have the tourism advantage that cities like Ottawa possess. That being said, the city should definitely look into expanding sidewalk space along Dundas, perhaps by removing the perpendicular parking. Also, all bus routes except the #2 Dundas really should be removed from the street. Queens Avenue and King Street were made 1-way for a reason; Dundas is just too narrow and congested.

[haljackey]

I'm not for turning Dundas into a pedestrian mall.

I'm for turning Dundas into a LRT line. The rest of the artery would be cobblestone for pedestrian use.

Some day.

[Pimpmasterdac]

I don't know why London ever attempted to turn Dundas between Lyle & Adelaide into a pedestrian mall. That area if anything has too many people of disrepute hanging around there. If anything they should make Dundas 4 lanes from Wellington to VMP!

As for downtown, just do those car free deals to weekends or summer days. The rest of the time it would just be another locale for OW recipients to loiter downtown and drive families away. Leaving the possibility for LRT open would be good, but seems as likely as us getting a ring road :(

Though the city should re-route all buses on Dundas to King & Queen, why clog up the street with 20 buses pumping emissions in a narrow area. Most people can use the exercise and walk a block anyways. That would help in dispersing the people who loiter on Dundas!

[MolsonExport]

The critical mass is not yet there. An expensive roll of the dice if this goes forward.

[haljackey]

...

I had to do it.

Drove northbound on Western Road today during rush hour between Windimere and Sarnia. Took 45 mins just get through that stretch. Never again.

They better have this all cleared up by the time the students start to move back in.

[MolsonExport]

The horror. At 430pm, the lineup of cars snaking out of Springett Lot (in front of Brescia) backed up way into the parking lot. Nothing was moving. Trucks trying to exit the IVEY world clASS construction were tooting their horns. I heard somebody yell "Oh C'mon for fucks' sake!!"

I grinned, as I walked home! :D

[manny_santos]

The horror. At 430pm, the lineup of cars snaking out of Springett Lot (in front of Brescia) backed up way into the parking lot. Nothing was moving. Trucks trying to exit the IVEY world clASS construction were tooting their horns. I heard somebody yell "Oh C'mon for fucks' sake!!"

I grinned, as I walked home! :D

You were just eagerly looking forward to the dinner special at Lord Gainsborough.

[Wharn]

Windimere

I love that spelling, and that's not even sarcasm. Maybe the city can change the name once they've linked it with Gainsborough some gorgeous day in 2112.

On that note, this traffic problem right now is indicative of a dysfunctional grid system. Had there been a bridge connecting Philip Aziz and Huron, do you think you would have gone through that mess? Better question, would the mess have even existed in the first place after people had been given alternatives?


They better have this all cleared up by the time the students start to move back in.

It won't be. I'll enjoy the bike ride through the Thames ravine for the first two months of school.

[go_leafs_go02]

I think it's been determined that the next London forum meet needs to take lake at Livers & Onions. It's only fit for that to happen.

[haljackey]

:previous:

Haha then I'll leave it up to MolsonExport to organize the next meet-up. :haha:

[MolsonExport]

There is a half-decent pub on Hyde Park Parking Lot (former Volker's restaurant).

[haljackey]

Haven't done one of these in a long time... so here you go!

2AXq0Mst1C0

HD/link here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXq0Mst1C0

Hope you enjoyed the drive!

Southdale suffers from chronic congestion pretty much all day long, and Southdale/Wonderland desperately needs a reconfigured intersection.

[manny_santos]

Haven't done one of these in a long time... so here you go!

2AXq0Mst1C0

HD/link here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXq0Mst1C0

Hope you enjoyed the drive!

Southdale suffers from chronic congestion pretty much all day long, and Southdale/Wonderland desperately needs a reconfigured intersection.

I just drove through that area this afternoon, and I concur. They also need to fix the traffic light timings in the area. Coming out of Loblaws, the red light turning left is three minutes long, then the light at Wonderland is red, and then the light at Home Depot always turns red as the light at Wonderland turns green. It was bumper-to-bumper traffic all the way from Colonel Talbot to Wharncliffe.

By the way, the last road you turned onto, was that Cheese Factory Road? Last time I was out there it was a gravel road with a farmhouse on it! (Trivia: Cheese Factory Road used to continue northward to Bradley Avenue, but was severed by Highway 401 and was eventually abandoned. The old right-of-way is still visible on Google Maps satellite view.)

[Pimpmasterdac]

The traffic around Wonderland & Southdale is utter bullshit these days. All the extra development and lights that seem to be 2 feet away from each other are just overkill! It wasn't so bad a few years ago but now Andover and Viscount have those lovely curb extensions/traffic islands, makeing it a "fun" obstacle course.

If the city had followed its plans, it called for Andover Dr. to be extended south to Wharncliffe which would have taken some local area traffic off Southdale and Wonderland south. Of course a few people on Andover complained about "increased hypothetical traffic" and now a retirement home has been built square in the middle of any southern extension rendering that idea dead.

Just looking forward to when Commissioners , get the city transportation somewhat improved. South will be good too but has too many lights whereas Commissioners is great for cross city driving!

[haljackey]

Haven't done one of these in a long time... so here you go!

2AXq0Mst1C0

HD/link here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AXq0Mst1C0

Hope you enjoyed the drive!

Southdale suffers from chronic congestion pretty much all day long, and Southdale/Wonderland desperately needs a reconfigured intersection.


By the way, the last road you turned onto, was that Cheese Factory Road?

No, it's called Commerce Road. There's a crapload of industrial development on it between Wilton Grove Road and the 401 frontage.



If the city had followed its plans, it called for Andover Dr. to be extended south to Wharncliffe which would have taken some local area traffic off Southdale and Wonderland south. Of course a few people on Andover complained about "increased hypothetical traffic" and now a retirement home has been built square in the middle of any southern extension rendering that idea dead.

From what I remember, Andover was 'planned' to go to a Bradley extension, and proposed to go all the way to Warncliffe. These plans were shelved when the Bradley extension became a stale proposal, along with negative feedback from residents like you mentioned. The failure to extend Andover Drive resulted in a new three-way intersection on Southdale between Andover and Wonderland, further increasing traffic congestion in the area.

Poor planning. As we all know, Southdale needs immediate 4-lane widening with bus bays, bike lanes and actual sidewalks. The current 2-lane road doesn't even have a sidewalk in some sections, making people walk either on private grass or the road's edge.

[Wharn]

Poor planning.

The life story of London's road network.

[haljackey]

Chris Bentley giving a thumbs up on the new 401/Wonderland interchange.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5803/28716512303322112698811.jpg

Now when's it goona get built?

The Ministry of transpiration is about to release their 2011-2015 highway plan. Hopefully this interchange will be included in it. (It was not included in the 2010-2014 plan.)

[Pimpmasterdac]

Wonderland-401 Interchange will be great. One that eastbound 401 traffic can access Wonderland, but also will provide a western link south to Port Stanley.

It's suppose to be built soon, so hopefully MTO gets going on that soon.

The one that's more troubling is the VMP interchange, does anyone from the MTO realize that the Parclo will stop VMP from ever become a true freeway?! Someone's gotta call the city out on this poor planning!

[haljackey]

The one that's more troubling is the VMP interchange, does anyone from the MTO realize that the Parclo will stop VMP from ever become a true freeway?! Someone's gotta call the city out on this poor planning!

I've talked to some experts, and they're reply to me was by the time the VMP actually becomes a full freeway, the 'new' (parclo) interchange that's planned will reach the end of it's design life and will need to be replaced anyway.

If the city speeds up plans, they recommend a large parclo design so that there's room for flyover ramps to be added later, converting the interchange to a cloverstack design.

---

Speaking of speeding up plans, Wellington should be continuously 6-laned from Baseline to the 401 to create a better gateway road for the city. Had a slow drive on it today. There's practically nothing in the way that's preventing them from doing it (like rail crossings, water, etc.). Adding some medians with trees/flowers like they did between Horton and the Thames River would be a nice touch too.

[MrSlippery519]

Chris Bentley giving a thumbs up on the new 401/Wonderland interchange.

Now when's it goona get built?

The Ministry of transpiration is about to release their 2011-2015 highway plan. Hopefully this interchange will be included in it. (It was not included in the 2010-2014 plan.)

This is desperately needed sooner than later, especially with how built up Wonderland Road South is getting. People coming from the Windsor area will love this as it's a pain getting off on CT going through Lambeth, etc

[haljackey]

This is desperately needed sooner than later, especially with how built up Wonderland Road South is getting. People coming from the Windsor area will love this as it's a pain getting off on CT going through Lambeth, etc

That and the fact that the Highway 4/401 junction is one of the last cloverleaf interchanges on the 400-series, and probably the most dangerous one left due to the angle these highways intersect.

The MTO wants to make serious improvements on the 401 between Highway 4 and 402. However due to budget constraints and the fact that there's more important projects to be done, London's getting neglected again. All that's stated on their site is that they plan to resurface the pavement in 2012.

But there's a lot more work to get done than that.
-Widen 401 to 6 lanes between Highway 4 and 402.
-Reconstruct Highway 4/401 cloverleaf, including a new overpass
-New overpass at Tempo Road
-New interchange at Wonderland Road, including a new overpass
-New overpass at Westminster Drive
-Install overhead signs and high mast lighting (maybe)

So there's a lot on their plate for this relatively short section of highway, but that's what happens when you neglect it for so long.

[MolsonExport]

The retardedness that is Hyde Park Road in on a Weekend has got to stop!!!

[GreatTallNorth2]

That and the fact that the Highway 4/401 junction is one of the last cloverleaf interchanges on the 400-series, and probably the most dangerous one left due to the angle these highways intersect.

The MTO wants to make serious improvements on the 401 between Highway 4 and 402. However due to budget constraints and the fact that there's more important projects to be done, London's getting neglected again. All that's stated on their site is that they plan to resurface the pavement in 2012.

But there's a lot more work to get done than that.
-Widen 401 to 6 lanes between Highway 4 and 402.
-Reconstruct Highway 4/401 cloverleaf, including a new overpass
-New overpass at Tempo Road
-New interchange at Wonderland Road, including a new overpass
-New overpass at Westminster Drive
-Install overhead signs and high mast lighting (maybe)

So there's a lot on their plate for this relatively short section of highway, but that's what happens when you neglect it for so long.

Let's be honest. None of the above really benefits Londoners travel within the city. Our in city transport network sucks.

[haljackey]

Our in city transport network sucks.

No question.

Just indicating that this section of the 401 needs some serious work, and it's really an exception because the MTO usually does good upkeep on the 400-series.
-For example, I was driving on Highway 402 yesterday and they're doing resurfacing/roadwork between Highway 4 and 401... but the current asphalt is in pretty good condition.

If only London got a project like the Windsor-Essex Parkway. It would help our terrible road network and add some much needed jobs.

[go_leafs_go02]

No question.

Just indicating that this section of the 401 needs some serious work, and it's really an exception because the MTO usually does good upkeep on the 400-series.
-For example, I was driving on Highway 402 yesterday and they're doing resurfacing/roadwork between Highway 4 and 401... but the current asphalt is in pretty good condition.

If only London got a project like the Windsor-Essex Parkway. It would help our terrible road network and add some much needed jobs.

The province's goal isn't too ensure that inter-city traffic is looked after - rather it's to connect cities to cities. Last time I checked, the 400 series highways around London never ever had any congestion at any time, the 402 is always at a high level of Service, and I've NEVER had any problems there.

I easily believe widening the 401 between Guelph and Milton/Mississauga would serve a MUCH better benefit to more people than doing any additional work on the 401.

the roads in London could use some work, but that's not the province's fault. Yes, Airport/VMP used to be provincial, and same with Highbury, but they mainly became City roads servicing local traffic only. Blame the City for its poor upkeep more than anything.

Is the 401 between Highway 4 and the 402 REALLY that bad? Man, I wish I could steal some of the lanes you have and put them out where I live. Half the time I'm in rural areas travelling 60 - 70 km/h on the Trans Canada because there's only 2 lanes in each direction (and it easily caries more traffic than the 401 between London and Woodstock)

[haljackey]

Ok the MTO has released their 2011-2015 Southern Highways program.

It includes:
-2013-2016: Highway 401 "Colonel Talbot Rd. to Veterans Memorial Parkway, London including Wonderland Road and Veterans Memorial Pkwy New interchange / interchange improvements"

Link to project: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2011/southern-ontario-expansion-2011-to-2015.shtml


...That is, if the Liberals are re-elected. :P

[Kokkei Mizu]

Here's some food for thought. What if there was a west-leg of the London Ring Road, and an extension of St. Thomas' Highway 3 bypass. An interchange with the 401 might look like this:

http://www.commutebyrail.org/stuff/london/401-interchange-after.png

I know the dimensions might be a little off, but I like playing around with the Google Maps style.

Also here's how an extension of the Highway 3 bypass might be built, complete with interchanges. This freeway would service approximately 100,000 people if built today. However, considering it probably won't even be considered for another few decades, it will probably serve upwards to 250,000 people.

Click on image for bigger version.
http://www.commutebyrail.org/stuff/london/future-freeway-sm.png (http://www.commutebyrail.org/stuff/london/future-freeway.png)

[Simpseatles]

^Cool! Nice job.:tup:

Unfortunately I don't think that Tillsonburg, and St. Thomas really need a highway to connect them, but the western end of the ring road is needed. Seeing a stack interchange in London would be awesome! Could you do one that shows an entire ring road around the city?

[MolsonExport]

really neat concept/mockup map. Would cost a fortune (economics/need of connecting Tillsonburg/St. Thomas are thin). But some kind of expressway (at least an urban boulevard concept) is badly needed in the west end. Hyde Park is a fukin joke (a dirt road might be an improvement) and on wonderland the traffic flows at unwonderful speeds.

[MrSlippery519]

Ok the MTO has released their 2011-2015 Southern Highways program.

It includes:
-2013-2016: Highway 401 "Colonel Talbot Rd. to Veterans Memorial Parkway, London including Wonderland Road and Veterans Memorial Pkwy New interchange / interchange improvements"

Link to project: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/highway-construction/southern-highway-2011/southern-ontario-expansion-2011-to-2015.shtml

...That is, if the Liberals are re-elected. :P

Target completion date...2016 I really hope complete means for everything being the #4 new overpass, 3 lanes from #4 to 402, new Wonderland Rd S/401 overpass as well as VMP overpass completed.

[haljackey]

Target completion date...2016 I really hope complete means for everything being the #4 new overpass, 3 lanes from #4 to 402, new Wonderland Rd S/401 overpass as well as VMP overpass completed.

From what I read this morning the MTO has identified replacing the Westminster Drive overpass sooner than later, as it's in rough shape and can only accommodate 4 lanes of Highway 401 under it.

Link: http://highway401-3bridges.ca/

So that's step in the right direction. However Tempo Road and the Highway 4 overpasses are still too narrow.
-The Highway 4 cloverleaf has a weave lane on each side and if it was converted to a diamond interchange that could become the third lane in each direction. That's how 6 lanes were squeezed onto the 401 between London and Woodstock in the early 90's.

[Kokkei Mizu]

^Cool! Nice job.:tup:

Unfortunately I don't think that Tillsonburg, and St. Thomas really need a highway to connect them, but the western end of the ring road is needed. Seeing a stack interchange in London would be awesome! Could you do one that shows an entire ring road around the city?

The freeway through St. Thomas and Tillsonburg would support more than those two municipalities. It would continue on as the current Highway 3, servicing Simcoe, Port Colborne, Fort Erie, etc.

And the interchange I drew up is not a stack interchange. All the bridges only have to go over one other road. It would be a tight interchange, and I'm sure it's not up to MTO freeway-to-freeway interchange standards. Especially how two of the ramps branch off from the left side of the road. But still, fun to look at. (Also notice how you have no connection from WB 3 to EB 401, and WB 401 to EB 3, as those ramps would be redundant.)

[go_leafs_go02]

The freeway through St. Thomas and Tillsonburg would support more than those two municipalities. It would continue on as the current Highway 3, servicing Simcoe, Port Colborne, Fort Erie, etc.

And the interchange I drew up is not a stack interchange. All the bridges only have to go over one other road. It would be a tight interchange, and I'm sure it's not up to MTO freeway-to-freeway interchange standards. Especially how two of the ramps branch off from the left side of the road. But still, fun to look at. (Also notice how you have no connection from WB 3 to EB 401, and WB 401 to EB 3, as those ramps would be redundant.)

Fantastic concept. I really like the Highway 3 connection from Highway 401 east to St. Thomas. That I certainly could see working - don't see a need for the St. Thomas-Alymer-Tillsonburg section. Traffic on there heading east is generally accommodated with how Highway 3 is, and Highway 401/403/QEW works pretty good for now for connecting to the Niagara Peninsula.

do you think the MTO would want to take over the west-end ring road of London and route Highway 4 from Arva down to Westdel Bourne and avoid downtown?

[haljackey]

Fdon't see a need for the St. Thomas-Alymer-Tillsonburg section.

Agreed. A Highway 3 freeway from the 401/Westdel to St. Thomas is enough.

They certainly had a big vision for the Highway 3 freeway, too bad only one portion of it was built, and only a phase one of that portion.

do you think the MTO would want to take over the west-end ring road of London and route Highway 4 from Arva down to Westdel Bourne and avoid downtown?

Short answer: no. Technically Highway 4 doesn't exist in London except between Lambeth and the south city limits. The province downloaded many King's highways to municipalities and they don't want any of them back.

[MolsonExport]

all part of the common nonsense revolution of Harris et al.

[go_leafs_go02]

Short answer: no. Technically Highway 4 doesn't exist in London except between Lambeth and the south city limits. The province downloaded many King's highways to municipalities and they don't want any of them back.

Actually, Highway 4 is only under control of the MTO from Glanworth/Littlewood Drive south to the London/Elgin Country border near the Ford plant.

Pretty sure everything north of there (Highway 401 interchange) right to the north City limits is all municipal. Likely the overpass over Highway 402 and the ramp intersections are, but the remainder isn't. And yes, downloading the highways was a horrible decision. I'm OK with downloading the jurisdiction to municipalities or counties, but they should have kept the numbering system and signage under MTO's control. Now Ontario has probably the most confusing highway signing network in North America. Provincial Highways, County Roads, Municipal Roads, etc..

You can't follow Highway 4 through London - the signage is definitely iffy in spots too.

[haljackey]

Yeah downloading had its pros and cons but it sure made things a lot more confusing.

For example in Greater Toronto there's:
-Highway 7
-Highway 407 (ETR)
-Regional Road 7 (which can differ depending on which regional municipality you're in)
-County Road 7
-(And Highway 7A if you count it.)

The province should at least try to keep the original routes numbered. For example, if Highway 2 was renumbered it would provide a trans-provincial route alternative to the 401, which would be helpful to people who do not like to drive on freeways (like the elderly).

Still, I think Highway 4's route in London made no sense. If it comes into the city on Colonel Talbot/Warncliffe and exits on Richmond, wouldn't it make more sense to have it not wind through the city? Just connect it via Warncliffe/Western/Richmond.

[Simpseatles]

Still, I think Highway 4's route in London made no sense. If it comes into the city on Colonel Talbot/Warncliffe and exits on Richmond, wouldn't it make more sense to have it not wind through the city? Just connect it via Warncliffe/Western/Richmond.

Yes, this is something I've often wondered about myself. By making the highway wind to the southwest of the city, and bypass St. Thomas, it ruined what could have been a logical connection with St. Thomas. With a big, built up highway 4 going directly from downtown St. Thomas to downtown London (via Wellington), we could have become a much more interconnected metro. Instead we have a couple 2 lane country roads, and kilometeres of farmland between the 2 cities of the "metro region". It makes no sense.:rolleyes:

[go_leafs_go02]

Yes, this is something I've often wondered about myself. By making the highway wind to the southwest of the city, and bypass St. Thomas, it ruined what could have been a logical connection with St. Thomas. With a big, built up highway 4 going directly from downtown St. Thomas to downtown London (via Wellington), we could have become a much more interconnected metro. Instead we have a couple 2 lane country roads, and kilometeres of farmland between the 2 cities of the "metro region". It makes no sense.:rolleyes:

The Highway designations all make sense based on a former road network. Remember Highway 2 used to be the Mother-Road of Ontario back in the day, and Highway 4 made sense how it worked connecting down to Port Stanley and bypassing St. Thomas.

You gotta look into past history to understand how the road network worked BEFORE the 400-series Highways came around. There used to be a website showing the MTO road maps for each year, take a look to see how easy it was before they downloaded all those highways and turned them into municipal roads. Here's the website showing snippets of each map, but it doesnt' show the province before mass downloading occured. http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Official_Collection.htm

[Simpseatles]

The Highway designations all make sense based on a former road network. Remember Highway 2 used to be the Mother-Road of Ontario back in the day, and Highway 4 made sense how it worked connecting down to Port Stanley and bypassing St. Thomas.

You gotta look into past history to understand how the road network worked BEFORE the 400-series Highways came around. There used to be a website showing the MTO road maps for each year, take a look to see how easy it was before they downloaded all those highways and turned them into municipal roads. Here's the website showing snippets of each map, but it doesnt' show the province before mass downloading occured. http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Official_Collection.htm

Very interesting website!

I suppose I can see now that the route highway 4 takes is the shortest between highway 2, and Port Stanley, while bypassing St. Thomas.

Anyways, I stumbled upon this map, and was struck by how much larger K-W, Brantford, and Guelph look compared to London at the time. It must be reflecting city limits, because there is no way, that these places were larger than London in 1957!
Also, it shows the first part of the 401 completed in our region.

http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Years/57/401.jpg
http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Official_Collection.htm

[go_leafs_go02]

Very interesting website!

I suppose I can see now that the route highway 4 takes is the shortest between highway 2, and Port Stanley, while bypassing St. Thomas.

Anyways, I stumbled upon this map, and was struck by how much larger K-W, Brantford, and Guelph look compared to London at the time. It must be reflecting city limits, because there is no way, that these places were larger than London in 1957!
Also, it shows the first part of the 401 completed in our region.

http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Years/57/401.jpg
http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/Maps/Official_Ontario/Official_Collection.htm

Even that snippet of a map is fantastic. Highway 2 used to drop down into Ingersoll and then follow along the river towards Woodstock. Highway 100 (which somehow became Airport Road) went from Thamsford up to St. Marys (or what used to be Highway 19 about 12 years ago).

And to think, all those red roads were largely provincial highways back in the day...really wish at least the signed part of the network came back, and all County Roads, Municipal Roads, and Regional Roads were removed from the system...

[MolsonExport]

Love the old maps. would be a great idea for a thread.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Browsing around London Transportation planning and saw the city finally did an update on the plans for Hyde Park Rd Widening.

Unfortunately the plans for the widening seem to be filled of gimmicks, NIMBY-ism, lack of foresight and overall cheapness.

Oxford & Hyde Park although they propose a double left turn they want to eliminate a right turn, due to fears of the evil expropriation, even though 7/11 and gas station across from it are closed.

Here's a comparison of what would be the best and what the "experts" want to be done.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/4189/oxford.jpg

At Gainsborough, The city wants to have separate turning lanes with normal width of lanes and a nice median like UWO. However the NIMBY crowd appears to be cluckin up a storm and want the lanes to be narrower (i.e. traffic calming) and fewer lanes for Hyde Park (yet none for Gainsborough)

Here's another comparison of what's best and what the Nimby crowd wants.

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/420/gainsborough.jpg

Here's the full plan (http://london.ca/Transportation/PDFs/DisplayBoards_HydePark.pdf) for those interested. It's disappointing the city seems to cave to the demands of every little group who has the slightest complaint. They seem to want London set back in the past with not hopes of growth for the future.

Hopefully the city grows a pair and does whats best for the whole west end, not just exclusive uppity neighbourhoods.

[go_leafs_go02]

The "road diet" is 3.3m wide travel lanes (down from 3.5m). In Surrey, BC, they use 3.3m wide travel lanes WITH a 3.0m right lane next to a 1.3m bike lane.

It's a truck route, and while signed at 60 km/h, it has average speeds between 70 - 80 km/h. I've cycled there once, and it was too narrow for me. Here's a streetview:

http://maps.google.ca/?ll=49.119157,-122.832819&spn=0.000004,0.006866&t=h&z=18&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=49.119155,-122.830773&panoid=E0mnz3A9bdoxekWjgcoTfQ&cbp=12,250.23,,0,10.31

3.3m lanes aren't narrow. 3.0m lanes are getting there, but still work. You have nothing to worry about with that road diet.

And a proposed roundabout at Hyde park and Sunningdale. That's a GREAT idea.

biggest mistake - going down to 1.2m wide bike lanes under the CP overpass. There's gotta be a better way. 1.2m is TINY. That's a major pinch point especially with trucks in the right lane.

[haljackey]

The problem with the rail overpass on Hyde Park Road is that it was designed to span a 4 lane road, not 4 lanes + 2 bike lanes. Thus everything needs to be squeezed down you still want them to go under.

Consider what the MTO did when they widened Highway 404 and added HOV lanes. This rail overpass wasn't wide enough to support shoulders or the HOV buffers, so they had to squeeze everything together.

http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/404_cl_23-5_north_lg.jpg
http://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_404-406_images/Hwy404_Images.htm

----

Moving on, the roadwork on Dundas Street is done. Very relieved to see the work complete.
http://www.london.ca/Road_Construction/images/Dundas_complete_Sept2.jpg

And Progress is being made at the Sarnia Road rail overpass too:
http://www.london.ca/Road_Construction/images/corebox_girders_install_Sept2.jpg

[MolsonExport]

^great updates. Otherwise, I fear more examples of London "thinking small". I hate sprawl, but it is here, so it must be serviced, unless the city/province can agree on a light rail link along Wellington-Richmond Corridor and concomitant densification; perhaps also eventually another line along Oxfart from Hyde Park to Airport. And HSR in the QC-Windsor Corridor. The city would be a candidate to boom like never before.

I enjoyed reading the Hyde park report. But I couldn't help but think that the preferred option (with respect to CN overpass) was the "fuck the pedestrian" option. This is 1970 thinking. How long will this attitude persist? Also, the expressed desire to keep the historical buildings in Hyde park. As I write this, the old house next to the United Church has been demolished; the church is now being dismantled. What are they going to save? that grotty fugly used car lot building on the northwest corner? too little, too late.

[Kokkei Mizu]

I'm surprised that with the reconstruction of Horton St, they didn't bury the utility lines... Now with the new Goodwill open, the road is becoming more and more dense and a part of downtown. Those wires really get in the way and detract from the city streetscape. Anybody else agree?

[Wharn]

I'm surprised that with the reconstruction of Horton St, they didn't bury the utility lines... Now with the new Goodwill open, the road is becoming more and more dense and a part of downtown. Those wires really get in the way and detract from the city streetscape. Anybody else agree?

I'd be the wrong person to ask, because I actually like overhead utility wires (but not huge hydro poles). Weird, I know, but there's something about them that pleases me.


3.3m lanes aren't narrow. 3.0m lanes are getting there, but still work. You have nothing to worry about with that road diet.

Does anyone know how wide the lanes are on Wharncliffe between Oxford and Base Line? I've always found them to be way too narrow in some sections (particularly near Horton St.) and on a few occasions I've had people from the opposing lanes wander onto my side of the road in order to dodge obstacles. The speed limit is 50 but it would honestly have to be 40 to be safe. Hopefully they aren't planning something similar for Hyde Park.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Does anyone know how wide the lanes are on Wharncliffe between Oxford and Base Line? I've always found them to be way too narrow in some sections (particularly near Horton St.) and on a few occasions I've had people from the opposing lanes wander onto my side of the road in order to dodge obstacles. The speed limit is 50 but it would honestly have to be 40 to be safe. Hopefully they aren't planning something similar for Hyde Park.

The local yokels are proposing these "diet lanes" at Molsons favourite intersection of liver & onions. Somehow have these diet lanes, a difference of 2 feet will breathe life in the intersection that regular sized lanes will suck up.

Wharncliffe is between Baseline & Oxford is its own hell with no centre-turn lane. City plans going back to the 80s called for a centre turn lane along Wharncliffe from Baseline to Oxford (as well as new underpasses). 30 years later we still have the same congested shitty road just more people using them.

On Hyde Park Rd the problem is they want to get rid of right hand turn lanes, which the cities own reports say will be needed within ~10 years. The city needs to think whats good for the WHOLE city, not what some stuck up NIMBY residents think. Hyde Park is the most western north-south road that we'll have. Expanding it properly will help relieve Wonderland and push back the need to widen to 6 lanes. But knowing our weak kneed council they'll cave to these whiners and probably push back construction to 2020.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Why is everyone obsessed with the government building roads and spending so much money on infrastructure outside the city of London? We need major spending on projects IN the city. The more highways, etc. that get funding for outside the city, the more sprawl we will have. And we need that, like we need Anne Marie back in the mayors chair.

[haljackey]

Why is everyone obsessed with the government building roads and spending so much money on infrastructure outside the city of London?

This is due to the fact that London's connections to the outside world are just as crappy as what we have in the city.

Also, consider that some roads outside the urban area (like 401/402) are provincial roads, and they will fork over a lot money on these routes compared to municipal roads. (It's better bang for the buck from out city's standpoint.)

[Snark]

This is due to the fact that London's connections to the outside world are just as crappy as what we have in the city.

Er, uh, what?

[GreatTallNorth2]

My thoughts are that the government seems to give money to projects that the city wants. K/W wanted LRT and they got a ton of cash from the Feds and Province. Same goes for Ottawa, Toronto, Mississauga, etc. Windsor has a new $1.5 billion parkway. We are getting 401 highway upgrades, which really doesn't help transportation in the city. I'm not saying the 401 upgrades won't be nice, but can you imagine that money being spent on in city projects. It would do so much for the in city transportation needs.

[Snark]

My thoughts are that the government seems to give money to projects that the city wants. K/W wanted LRT and they got a ton of cash from the Feds and Province. Same goes for Ottawa, Toronto, Mississauga, etc. Windsor has a new $1.5 billion parkway. We are getting 401 highway upgrades, which really doesn't help transportation in the city. I'm not saying the 401 upgrades won't be nice, but can you imagine that money being spent on in city projects. It would do so much for the in city transportation needs.

Careful, some of that stuff has nothing to do with the city getting benefit. The Windsor parkway for example is being done not to benefit Windsor, it's a missing link in the NAFTA superhighway network that badly needs to be filled in. If Windsor were not there and the link was still missing, the project would still be going forward. This project may in fact have a somewhat detrimental effect on the City: when complete 90% of the border crossing traffic will bypass the city all together instead of being forced to drive through it.

Ottawa is in NCC territory, therefore gets lots of extra cash from the Feds.

I do agree though, that in some cases the higher levels of government will listen to the requests of the locals. The 401 upgrades are a case in point:

The 401 upgrades in London aren't intended to improve the city's transportation network per se, it is a piece of the puzzle of the regional economic strategy. Airport cargo terminal, declaration of a free trade zone for the city, improvements to the freeway network, and the new water reservoir are part of the same strategy. The announcement of two new factories in the innovation park in the past month is just the sort of thing that the strategy is targeting.

[north 42]

Careful, some of that stuff has nothing to do with the city getting benefit. The Windsor parkway for example is being done not to benefit Windsor, it's a missing link in the NAFTA superhighway network that badly needs to be filled in. If Windsor were not there and the link was still missing, the project would still be going forward. This project may in fact have a somewhat detrimental effect on the City: when complete 90% of the border crossing traffic will bypass the city all together instead of being forced to drive through it.

Actually the Windsor-Essex Parkway is only going forward because of the years long fight by this city to get an appropriate fix to the border problems that were happening here. If Windsor wasn't here, there would just be an extention of the 401, not the incredible design that we are getting now. If your city doesn't fight to get things done, then your city loses.

This parkway will have an amazing effect on the city, not a detrimental one. First off, the parkway runs right through south Windsor, it does not bypass it. It will take thousands of belching trucks off our streets and give the city back it's roads for it's own residents. We will still get thousands of cars going to the Ambassador Bridge, so there is only good happening because of this project.

[Symz]

Actually the Windsor-Essex Parkway is only going forward because of the years long fight by this city to get an appropriate fix to the border problems that were happening here. If Windsor wasn't here, there would just be an extention of the 401, not the incredible design that we are getting now. If your city doesn't fight to get things done, then your city loses.

This parkway will have an amazing effect on the city, not a detreimental one. Firt off, the parkway runs right through south Windsor, it does not bypass it. It will take thousands of belching trucks off our streets and give the city back it's roads for it's own residents. We will still get thousands of cars going to the Ambassador Bridge, so there is only good happening because of this project.

I agree with you north42

[haljackey]

At least the city is finally taking a vision with the 401/402 development plan.

It's been so long since our city had vision that a lot of people/the media are giving the mayor flak for 'change'.

This vision will give us the Wonderland/401 interchange (and a changeup at VMP/401).
-I talked with the city last year asking when it was going to be built and they told me it was a decade away or more. What a difference a little vision can have.

Let's get a vision going for our urban road and transit infrastructure.

If I was mayor, I'd tax the crap outa ya and and make this entire city a construction zone. It would be 4 years of hell but afterwards we'd have a decent transport network.

[Wharn]

And we need that, like we need Anne Marie back in the mayors chair.

Christ, please, anyone but her. If you want another Lost Decade, she'd find a way to make it happen. But to be fair the city suffers from a lack of leadership right down to the core.


On Hyde Park Rd the problem is they want to get rid of right hand turn lanes, which the cities own reports say will be needed within ~10 years. The city needs to think whats good for the WHOLE city, not what some stuck up NIMBY residents think. Hyde Park is the most western north-south road that we'll have. Expanding it properly will help relieve Wonderland and push back the need to widen to 6 lanes. But knowing our weak kneed council they'll cave to these whiners and probably push back construction to 2020.

And here's a perfect example- London gets nothing done because London can't make its mind up and because London serves up half-baked plans in the first place.

[Kokkei Mizu]

Just drove westbound on the 401 between Wellington and Highway 4. I noticed a bunch of pylons and construction signs set up along the way there, and signs saying eastbound access to the 401 from Highway 4 will be closed on certain nights. A simple repaving, or maybe preliminary work for Wonderland Rd. interchange?

[K85]

Please be the latter!!!

[haljackey]

Please be the latter!!!

Doubt it. The construction isn't slated to begin until 2013, at least according to the MTO.

The pavement on this stretch is probably in the roughest shape on the entire route.

[go_leafs_go02]

It's for pavement rehabilitation...almost sure of that.

[Pimpmasterdac]

Hopefully Wonderland is done sooner than later. Again though London is neglected and short-sighted planning continuing? Even if its rehabilitation of the 401, why not get going on tearing down these old shitty overpasses so that the MTO can make the 401 6-lanes through London? Rather than paving road and (perhaps) razing it to widen the 401.

VMP interchange is where someone needs to throw a bucket of water on MTO/City of London for the 401. Permanently make VMP a traffic light road is that goes ahead. If anything they should start building interchanges on VMP rather than this abomination which will slow down traffic

[haljackey]

Even if its rehabilitation of the 401, why not get going on tearing down these old shitty overpasses so that the MTO can make the 401 6-lanes through London? Rather than paving road and (perhaps) razing it to widen the 401.

VMP interchange is where someone needs to throw a bucket of water on MTO/City of London for the 401. Permanently make VMP a traffic light road is that goes ahead. If anything they should start building interchanges on VMP rather than this abomination which will slow down traffic

There's actually a lobbyist group of bridge historians who are fighting to prevent the Westminster Drive overpass from being torn down. With the Wellington Road structure replaced, apparently Westminster is the last bridge to have that certain design spec that they are lobbying to keep. Problem is that the bridge only spans 4 lanes, so is it really worth the cost to rehabilitate it and keep traffic squeezed?

As for the VMP, it will have interchanges. Just give em 70 years.
-Although I think Joe is trying to cut this down. Not sure how much but I bet we'll know when the 2030 transportation master plan is completed.

[manny_santos]

There's been some various pavement rehabilitation going on in the London area lately. Highway 402 has had various work going on for the past month from the 401 to at least Highway 4.

[Wharn]

There's been some various pavement rehabilitation going on in the London area lately. Highway 402 has had various work going on for the past month from the 401 to at least Highway 4.

Don't forget about the delicious bridge pavement rehabilitation at Perth and Windermere. Seriously, who planned this project? Did it never occur to anyone that the bridge work should perhaps be finished before the fall/winter session begins and before Perth Drive's traffic volume doubles?

[MolsonExport]

Nahh. Just on the heels of the good ol' 45 minute delays on Western road for the past 4 months...great idea. ;)

[haljackey]

So a recent study was recently conducted by the London Metro asking what London can do to reduce traffic congestion.

Only 8% said widening roads was a good idea. This is sad, especially since many 'unwidened' roads have been designed to be expanded. If these roads were already widened to their design specs then I would think differently.

Honestly, the bus network can't be improved much more without substantial funding (BRT, busways, bus terminal downtown, etc.). Widened roads can also improve the efficiency of the bus system.

[Pimpmasterdac]

With all due respect to London Metro its a paper that's available at bus stops, rather than one people get delivered. The people surveyed more likely don't have cars and don't get any direct benefit for widening roads.

Having more bus bays that get them off the road and allow traffic to flow will help. Just look at Richmond between Oxford and UWO, it's like playing frogger either getting stuck behind a bus that stops every 100 metres or some late left-hand turner. Bus bays would help.

Road widening is the other logical step. Southdale behind a bus is the same as behind an elephant. You going nowhere quick. having more lanes that allow traffic to pass slow vehicles will be key. London needs to grow a pair and start expanding the roads

Finally I doubt London will every have a BRT. It's only really feasible along roads with 6+ lanes, basically only Wellington from Baseline to 401. Anywhere else the road is effectively narrowed to a 2 lane road, like Wellington north of Baseline, all of Oxford and all of Richmond.

Express bus routes would be more realistic and efficient. If people could ge crosstown without 50 odd stops, it would be a more viable option.

Otherwise nothing will change, London traffic will get worse, and congestion won't disappear!

[Doady]

Bus bays are a great way to inconvenience bus riders and give priority to the car, which is probably what London should do considering it is located in the snowbelt, and therefore public transit is not a viable option no matter what.

[MolsonExport]

Bus bays are a great way to inconvenience bus riders and give priority to the car, which is probably what London should do considering it is located in the snowbelt, and therefore public transit is not a viable option no matter what.

http://javaura.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/troll.jpg

[Wharn]

Bus bays are a great way to inconvenience bus riders and give priority to the car, which is probably what London should do considering it is located in the snowbelt, and therefore public transit is not a viable option no matter what.

Look mommy, a troll on the London Local!

[haljackey]

London should have more of these:

http://i.imgur.com/XXy4b.jpg

[manny_santos]

More Philadelphia Flyer trucks?