[DizzyEdge]

No, not the bar (although it's a fine establishment), but more it's name, which in a lot of ways I believe is a fine 4 syllable representation of Calgary.

I wanted to start a thread of.. constructive criticism. Not so much a 'Calgary sucks' thread, although that is the mood I'm in at the moment, but more of a 'Certain aspects of Calgary sucks, so what can be done to fix that'.

[DizzyEdge]

This past week, I was in Denver for technical training, and made sure to frequent the downtown area as much as possible. This was the second time I had been to Denver, which has quite a Calgary feel: Rockies are nearby, high elevation, rather shiny downtown, downtown pedestrian mall, etc. But it just seems so much more vibrant that Calgary, even though the city proper is 1/2 a million people (to be fair, the wider metro area is 2.5 million).

It also helps that turn of the century Denver seems to stretch about 70 blocks in either way from downtown vs about 20-30 for Calgary, so Denver has and had a lot more historic buildings so in spite of teardowns there seems to be an order of magnitude more historic buildings. But the main thing I noticed, is how much more vibrant the city seemed to be, there were people, everywhere, all the time in the downtown and street after multi-block street full of small retail, restaurants, personal services, bars etc. Some stats:

Length of 16st pedestrian mall, 1 mile
(equivalent to about city hall to 8th st sw in Calgary)

# of Bars & Restaurants (this includes any sort of food service establishment) in Denver's downtown: `~324

# of Bars & Restaurants within 1 block of the pedestrian mall: ~160

# of downtown horse and carriage companies: 28
# of pedestrian mall restarants/bars with sidewalk patios: 36
# of sidewalk foot vendors on pedestrian mall (think portable carts): 39

Denver also has a warehouse district, known as Lower Downtown or Lodo, and some specs from that area:

24 restaraunts and bars
11 architectural firms
7 galleries
11 stores
12 personal services
plus museums, offices, etc

Trying to analyze why there was so so many shops/pubs/restaurants it occured to me, that for Calgary to be somewhat equivalent, 17th ave west to about 36 st sw, centre north to 32nd ave, 10th ave and 11th aves (with some 12th ave action), 9th ave in inglewood , and our 'warehouse district' would all have to be retail and entertainment, when in reality they're either extremely patchy, or partially overrun with office uses.

I'm curious if our usually tight office market creates a situation where retail and food services don't get the foothold they should as any available floor space is more lucratively leased for office? For example our warehouse district, instead of being an incredibly thriving zone, is mostly condo and office.

One other thing, Denver has downtown, and I'm meaning directly adjacent to the core: Major League hockey arena, major league football stadium, major league baseball stadium, major league basketball arena, AND, an amusement park, plus a large downtown campus of their university.

So I guess the purpose of this unstructured pile of info, is to get people's comments, wondering if there's anything to be drawn from a city that seems to 'work' as far as downtown pedestrian life which could be applied here in Calgary, or if people think that the direction Calgary is going will get there soon enough, or if it's just a lost cause.

[freeweed]

But it just seems so much more vibrant that Calgary, even though the city proper is 1/2 a million people (to be fair, the wider metro area is 2.5 million).

This isn't a "to be fair" comment. THIS IS THE WHOLE ISSUE.

Denver is 2.5 larger than Calgary, period. It's the same reason Vancouver and Montreal feel much larger and more vibrant than Calgary - it's because they are several times our size.

"City proper" is a mostly meaningless measure that only affects property tax calculations and elections.

I don't have anything constructive to add at the moment, but don't underestimate the Unicity effect - it's very easy to compare Calgary to "smaller" cities all while missing out their huge population bases.

It's like the hypothetical situation where Airdrie was a city of 2 million people, separated from Calgary proper by a 4 lane freeway. Something tells me we'd have a larger downtown, with taller high-rises, and a lot more activity.

That being said, what's Denver like after office hours? I find most large US cities have even less activity after hours in their core than we do, because everyone flees to the suburbs which are much further away than in Calgary. But I've never spent much time in Denver unfortunately. To me, that's a huge measure of vibrancy.

[DizzyEdge]

This isn't a "to be fair" comment. THIS IS THE WHOLE ISSUE.

Denver is 2.5 larger than Calgary, period. It's the same reason Vancouver and Montreal feel much larger and more vibrant than Calgary - it's because they are several times our size.

"City proper" is a mostly meaningless measure that only affects property tax calculations and elections.

I don't have anything constructive to add at the moment, but don't underestimate the Unicity effect - it's very easy to compare Calgary to "smaller" cities all while missing out their huge population bases.

It's like the hypothetical situation where Airdrie was a city of 2 million people, separated from Calgary proper by a 4 lane freeway. Something tells me we'd have a larger downtown, with taller high-rises, and a lot more activity.

That being said, what's Denver like after office hours? I find most large US cities have even less activity after hours in their core than we do, because everyone flees to the suburbs which are much further away than in Calgary. But I've never spent much time in Denver unfortunately. To me, that's a huge measure of vibrancy.

Well the comment about the 2.5 million and not to underestimate it is actually
constructive.

As far as after hours, this I have a decent feel for as I was in training until 5pm each day, so I only got to experience it after office hours, and only on week days, and I would say the pedestrian mall, and the Lodo area were busy each evening. I fully expect the CBD was likely pretty slow. For example though, there is an electic bus that stops each block on the pedestrian mall, and 7-9pm on a wed night any time we got on it was almost full, and I'd say there were 12 of these busses in use on that one strip at any given time.
I think the arenas helped a lot as the Denver nuggets NBA team was in the playoffs, and several times a week there were baseball games, so fans of both teams generally were walking through one of those two areas to get to and from the arena/stadium. Imagine if McMahon was also by downtown, and between McMahon and the saddle dome was the stampede entertainment district, plus a more entertainment friendly warehouse district, that alone would be huge.

[Doug]

Even though the Denver metro is much larger than Calgary, downtown Denver has a smaller workforce, less office space and I am guessing a lower resident population. The main differences are:
-Denver has a much larger stock of historic buildings even though it isn't all that much older than Calgary. The main reason is that it was larger and more prosperous than Calgary back in the late 1800's and early 1900's
-downtown Denver has more entertainment attractions, including 4 professional sports teams, an amusement park, a larger convention center, a major museum
-the weather in Denver is considerably warmer than Calgary. The golf courses stay open nearly year round and even in the winter, spells below freezing rarely last more than a few days at a time.

[Doug_Cgy]

I'm so sick of this "everywhere is so much better than Calgary" mentality. Calgary is taking great strides to becoming a much more livable city. Just take a walk around the CBD/Beltine to experiece it in the making...Look at the plans for the East Village re-development, but also remember that things take time. Many cities would KILL to be in the situation we're in right now. I'm glad people have great trips, but remember when you're away, you almost always see things through rose coloured glasses.

[O-tacular]

My feeling is that Calgary is at a tipping point right now. We aren't quite urban yet but we're getting there. I remember even just a few years ago downtown was literally devoid of traffic after dark on weekdays. Today, you take the flyover DT on a Monday and there's a line. This also applies to pedestrian traffic as there seems to be far more of it than there used to. The funniest story I remember hearing was my cousin from Montreal recounting his month he spent here in the mid 90's. He would try clubbing here, but told me how dead the downtown was and how one time he actually saw a tumble weed blowing by it was so dead. :haha: I distinctly remember seeing tumble weed a few times myself (probably due to the massive amounts of empty parking lots more than lack of ppl but it illustrates the point perfectly). All quiet at the OK corral.

Anyhow, I think what I'm getting at int his rambling speech is give it some time. Hell, when I graduated Highschool in 02 Sasso, Stmapede Station, Nuera, KEynote were all just empty parking lots that hookers used for johns. Even the Casino in its current form wasn;t there yet. And as much as it may be an evil to some ppl, it certainly brings a level of street life to it. I thinkt he next big contributor to vibrancy DT will be Le Germain, as it is in what has always been a no man's land for residential.

[freeweed]

Tumbleweeds exist because we live on the open plains, in just about the most arid part of them. NYC would have tumbleweeds if it were located here. They're not afraid of crowds or anything. Maybe if a moose walked through downtown Calgary I'd be worried.

Just sayin'.


To me Calgary is like being in your early 20s. It feels like everyone else you know has more than you, better things than you, more experience than you - but you have your entire life ahead of you and nothing but change to come. Every day is a new experience and 5 years amounts to a HUGE change in your surroundings.

Whereas a city like Montreal (random example) feels like you're living in your 60s. You have pretty much everything you want, but nothing new to look forward to. Everything that you have and everything that you do will pretty much be the same for the rest of your life. You might have all your ducks in a row and the checklist complete, but it's gonna be a very static existence from here on in.

[Doug_Cgy]

Tumbleweeds exist because we live on the open plains, in just about the most arid part of them. NYC would have tumbleweeds if it were located here. They're not afraid of crowds or anything. Maybe if a moose walked through downtown Calgary I'd be worried.

Just sayin'.


To me Calgary is like being in your early 20s. It feels like everyone else you know has more than you, better things than you, more experience than you - but you have your entire life ahead of you and nothing but change to come. Every day is a new experience and 5 years amounts to a HUGE change in your surroundings.

Whereas a city like Montreal (random example) feels like you're living in your 60s. You have pretty much everything you want, but nothing new to look forward to. Everything that you have and everything that you do will pretty much be the same for the rest of your life. You might have all your ducks in a row and the checklist complete, but it's gonna be a very static existence from here on in.


That sums its up perfectly!! :tup:

I also have to say on a side note...I was Downtown last night and the streets we're busy after dark...I think people are letting stereotypes get the best of them!!

[DizzyEdge]

I'm so sick of this "everywhere is so much better than Calgary" mentality. Calgary is taking great strides to becoming a much more livable city. Just take a walk around the CBD/Beltine to experiece it in the making...Look at the plans for the East Village re-development, but also remember that things take time. Many cities would KILL to be in the situation we're in right now. I'm glad people have great trips, but remember when you're away, you almost always see things through rose coloured glasses.

Well it's true that when you're somewhere 'new' you probably don't notice the negatives. I agree with what you said about the historic building stock and the entertainment venues, I think both of those are huge, although you could probably mitigate the lesser historic stock with contemporary structures that have some of the same appeal.

One thing that's often said in Calgary is that if only more people lived downtown, things would pass that tipping point as was mentioned, but considering that Denver is surrounded by hundreds of blocks of mostly low rise apts or turn of the century single family, I'm thinking that many of the crowds have come *to* downtown, which translates into sort of a 'if you build it they will come' in the sense that if the right downtown attractions are present, people will come a distance to enjoy it. I guess what I'm sayig is density is good, but as we have seen in the West end, it alone will not create much. We need to make sure that attractions are incorporated into downtown as well.

[O-tacular]

One more thing. I have never visited Denver except their airport during a layover, but I heard they have alot more brownfirld DT than we do. Is that true?

[DizzyEdge]

I think that's probably true. If you think about it, since Calgary started in Inglewood, that's where the industrial area also started, but then it moved to it's current location and the industrial stayed behind in Inglewood, so other than our 'warehouse district' along the tracks we don't really have industrial (or former industrial) adjacent to downtown which I suspect is uncommon.

[Wooster]

Interestingly I remember when Calgary hosted that International Downtown Associations conference there were some comments from the exec director of the Denver downtown association about how she really like how cohesive Calgary's downtown was - she felt that Denver's is far more fragmented and has a significantly greater amount of vacant land. Calgary's also has far more high density residential. Nevertheless, there's lots to like about places like LoDo in downtown Denver.

[AUM]

I think the problem with Calgary is GREED! The problem with a lot of the current state of affairs, and this is just my opinion, is greed of industry and citizens. If we look at the current problem with mold in new residences, the many projects on hold, sinkholes, closing of restaurants, bars, and 'boutique shops' all seem to stem from GREED. It is one thing to be a prosperous city but prosperity based on greed leads to the problems we are seeing arise right now in our city.

A simple look at it is like this....

- Mold issues in new homes is a result of poor construction rushed processes. This all stems from GREED....the faster a home is built the more money is made.

- Sinkholes and projects on hold results from sepculation and increased demand not from people looking for a place to live but a place to flip...again GREED of development and citizens.

- Closing of bars, restaurants, shops....in some cases are forced out of exsiting locations to accomodate future development which in many cases has gone on hold and empty lots is all that is left in place for the meatime. Some situations are in part to high rents forcing smaller venues to close their doors.

It is a sad state of affairs when a city is at the state Calgary is at. We can only hope that things pick up again soon so we don't have to live in a city that is on 'hold'. This is a bit of a rant....and stems from frustrations that there is so much potential but it seems to get lost in the chaos. I think it is true and even at the scale of urban life that 'Money does not always equal happiness'!

[Wooster]

Well, there are a lot of cities with projects on hold, not just Calgary. Toronto has a massive blank parcel of rubble at the corner of Yonge and Bloor due to a halted project! I'm not sure greed, is really a great explanation - more like recession (which yes, stemmed from Wall Street Greed not Calgary's) and an unusually extreme period of ups (2005-2007/8) and downs (now). The rest can largely be boiled down to extremely poor construction site management practices and standards in this province.

[amaruk]

I went out for beers with a couple of co-workers last week and we got onto the discussion of Calgary and our thoughts on the city (2 are NFLD transplants, one Vancouverite, and myself the Torontonian). All of us said we won't be staying in Calgary, it's more of a place to get your career started, then leave and go elsewhere. This isn't the first time I've talked to people about this, and I think this mentality is a hindrance to making Calgary a great city. Obviously, I'm being completely hypocritical here since I'm in that boat, but it very much reminded me of when I was in Johannesburg and a friend said "no one wants to live in Joburg, we just come here to make money and leave". If the people moving to Calgary never intend to stay here, I think it makes it more difficult to create the 'feel' everyone likes in a great city, if that makes sense. I not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

[Doug_Cgy]

I went out for beers with a couple of co-workers last week and we got onto the discussion of Calgary and our thoughts on the city (2 are NFLD transplants, one Vancouverite, and myself the Torontonian). All of us said we won't be staying in Calgary, it's more of a place to get your career started, then leave and go elsewhere. This isn't the first time I've talked to people about this, and I think this mentality is a hindrance to making Calgary a great city. Obviously, I'm being completely hypocritical here since I'm in that boat, but it very much reminded me of when I was in Johannesburg and a friend said "no one wants to live in Joburg, we just come here to make money and leave". If the people moving to Calgary never intend to stay here, I think it makes it more difficult to create the 'feel' everyone likes in a great city, if that makes sense. I not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but I'd love to hear some opinions.


Yeah...I've heard that, but I've also heard MANY opinions contrary to that as well. I for one plan on being in Calgary for the rest of my life (unless some UNREAL . As much as everyone rants and raves about how great Vancouver is, that's a city I could not see myself living in. To each their own I guess:cool:

[AUM]

Well, there are a lot of cities with projects on hold, not just Calgary. Toronto has a massive blank parcel of rubble at the corner of Yonge and Bloor due to a halted project! I'm not sure greed, is really a great explanation - more like recession (which yes, stemmed from Wall Street Greed not Calgary's) and an unusually extreme period of ups (2005-2007/8) and downs (now). The rest can largely be boiled down to extremely poor construction site management practices and standards in this province.

Wooster you are right...I guess being a Calgarian I am so strongly focused on this city and what we can and need to do to help it get back on the right track. That's why I totally support Plan-It and hope that the government both Provincial and Municipal also put in some legislation that prevents future projects from leaving holes in out city.

It was a bit hasty of me to use GREED as the scape goat. But when I've been talking to people everyone seems to not care about the direction of the city because they made their money and who cares what happens to the city. It's like Amaruk said...most people came here to make money and once they have achieved that they intend to go somewhere else to enjoy life.

[Slug]

What happened in Chicago makes our problems look like a hic-up. Their new tallest designed by Calatrava sits as a massive hole in the ground while another top five building wastes away as a 20 story concrete hulk. Imagine if the Bow and EAP were in that condition the city would be drafting completion penalty bylaws as we speak. IMO this would make the problem worse the next time around raising risk where its only feasible to build at the height of a boom where there is no time to complete the project before the bust. We need more people like the developers of Livingstone place and hopefully the developers of EAP to smooth the cycles and eventually eliminate development failures.

[wild wild west]

Re: the Denver-Calgry comparison - my 2 cents is that Denver has a more "well-rounded" donwtown (meanign a broader mix of the kinds of uses one expects in a downtown - sporting facilities, museums and art galleries, educational institutions, historic districts, retail mix, etc.) whereas Calgary's downtown is much more oriented towards business. In spite of the population difference being in Denver's favour, appearances are quite opposite: most of downtown Calgary consists of highrise canyons while downtown Denver has many more low-slung buildings interspersed with its highrises, which certainly does not leave someone the impression they are in the heart of a metro area of ~2.5 million. I didn't find Denver's downtown to be much different in terms of after-hours pedestrian traffic. In spite of Denver's better range of uses, we seem to have more of the basics - much larger downtown workforce, fewer parking lots, the more successful LRT system and of course more and denser downtown residential. That said there are certain elements of downtown Denver I would love to emulate...in particular, LoDo is awesome.

[CONative]

What is amount of Calgary's downtown workforce?

[freeweed]

Yeah...I've heard that, but I've also heard MANY opinions contrary to that as well. I for one plan on being in Calgary for the rest of my life (unless some UNREAL . As much as everyone rants and raves about how great Vancouver is, that's a city I could not see myself living in. To each their own I guess:cool:

Yeah, those that just come for the money and leave - well, like you say to each their own, but I really pity them for not finding anything here worth staying for. I suspect in most cases it's the usual "home is where I come from" behaviour. A lot of new Calgarians exhibit this - they don't necessarily have anything overly good to say about their hometown, but it's their hometown, so duh, that's where they're going to end up.

I'd rather live in a city full of people who actually want to be here, and not just those who're here due to accident of birth, anyway. I couldn't possibly imagine giving up the natural wonders and sunshine we enjoy here, but hey - I have friends who've moved away and absolutely LOVE the dreary grey of Seattle. :shrug:

Guess I'm also nowhere near as mercenary as I used to think. I couldn't imagine living anywhere for more than a few days if I didn't actually like it there. I did have the opportunity to live in Toronto for a few years for a big bundle of money, but as I just didn't want to live there, it didn't make sense for me to move. I couldn't imagine wasting years of my life somewhere where I didn't want to be.

[freeweed]

What is amount of Calgary's downtown workforce?

I've seen numbers in the 120,000 range in recent years. That's probably a close enough estimate.

Keep in mind this is in a metro area of just over a million people.

[Wooster]

It probably depends how 'downtown' is defined. Most quotes don't include Beltline employment in their numbers. It's probably somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000.

[freeweed]

It probably depends how 'downtown' is defined. Most quotes don't include Beltline employment in their numbers. It's probably somewhere between 120,000 and 150,000.

Fair enough, and just about any city (especially a US city) would most certainly consider something like the Beltline as 'downtown' - unless they make the old fashioned downtown/uptown distinction, or something similar.

[CONative]

Denver considers a pretty small area for it's downtown (nothing as large as beltline) -- and it's somewhere between 118,000 - 130,000 for it's workforce (depending on who is counting). Of course, the suburban Denver Tech Center also has over 115,000 for its workforce and has a decent suburban skyline. Downtown Denver has also added a lot of new housing units in the past year or so, and will be adding a lot more with several large projects under construction (40 story Spire, 45 story 4 Seasons Residences, etc, etc). Certain light rail lines are also very popular. We also have our share of tall skyscrapers, ya know. :)

How far is the Saddledome from downtown? It looks like it is somewhat close to downtown. Where are the other venues? How many miles until you hit the Rockies? It's about 16 miles from downtown Denver and the suburbs hug right about against them.

It's amazing how large Calgary's downtown is for a population of 1+ million metro.

[freeweed]

How far is the Saddledome from downtown? It looks like it is somewhat close to downtown.

Very close. It's not right in the heart of downtown but it's maybe 10-20 blocks from most of it. We have the LRT that bisects the core, and it goes right next to the 'Dome. Unfortunately the free-fare zone that exists downtown does not cover that one last stop, or else I could claim we have a free people-mover to the 'Dome. I've always hated that.

]How many miles until you hit the Rockies? It's about 16 miles from downtown Denver and the suburbs hug right about against them.

The first "major" mountain is about 30 miles from downtown Calgary. Most of the front ranges that you see in our skyline are about 40 miles. 45 miles straight west of downtown is the start of the mountains people see when they drive on the highway heading into them.

They're definitely not as close as Denver but our suburbs on the western side do feel a bit like they're in the foothills at least, even if they're technically not. One thing to note is the Canadian side of the rockies is a different rock type than what you have around Denver - consequently we don't have much in the way of the smaller front ranges. Most parts of the mountains here butt up against very low rolling foothills mixed with flat prairie, suddenly transitioning straight into a 3000' or higher vertical face. It's an impressive effect but it does mean that we don't have the "suburb" mountains that you do like surrounding Golden or Boulder. However, once you're in our mountains, you're IN them. Pretty much the very first few high peaks are well above the treeline. There's no gradual height increase.

[wild wild west]

Re: downtown employment, last I heard I think it was 140,000.

re: Denver Tech Centre - that is quite the impressive suburban skyline...certainly Calgary does not have any suburban employment centres even remotely close to that big.

[frinkprof]

Lots of talk in the Calgary Construction thread about streetwalls and midrises, and cities to emulate (Philadelphia and Portland came up). What comes to mind, to me, is parts of Montreal with some decent blocks with a consistent streetwall. I've heard that Buenos Aries and Barcelona are great examples of achieving densities through midrises.

I'd like to see corridors like Centre Street, 17th Avenue (both SE, and the portion between 14th and 37th Streets west), Macleod Trail (from 25th Avenue all the way to Chinook Centre) get a good streetwall going with mostly midrises (5-10 storeys) with towers at certain nodes. It would be great to see some of this happening in the next upswing in the real-estate market.

[DizzyEdge]

Lots of talk in the Calgary Construction thread about streetwalls and midrises, and cities to emulate (Philadelphia and Portland came up). What comes to mind, to me, is parts of Montreal with some decent blocks with a consistent streetwall. I've heard that Buenos Aries and Barcelona are great examples of achieving densities through midrises.

I'd like to see corridors like Centre Street, 17th Avenue (both SE, and the portion between 14th and 37th Streets west), Macleod Trail (from 25th Avenue all the way to Chinook Centre) get a good streetwall going with mostly midrises (5-10 storeys) with towers at certain nodes. It would be great to see some of this happening in the next upswing in the real-estate market.

Most definitely. There's already some street-wally 50's retail (think Taj Mahal/Memory Express and the hobby shop across the street from them) but it's too patchy to really do anything, having some redevelopment to fill in the gaps would be great.

I'm wondering if someone in the know has any idea about typical lowrise retail rents in this city. What I mean by that is retail spaces in places like 17th ave, and 10th/11th/12th aves (think the old electric ave block on 11th between 5th and 6th sts). The reason I ask is many cities don't have such a large CBD as Calgary, and there tends to be a sort of depressed 'belt' between the CBD and residential, one that's full of holes, has older low rise buildings etc. One of the good things about that is the rents are likely (or are they) lower than a place like Calgary where there's the CBD, 10th/11th/12th, and then residential. I'm curious if the lack of that belt, and the heat of the office market is detrimental to interesting but perhaps not hugely profitable businesses in this city. Or maybe that's not the case at all, but I'm curious about it.

[Just Build It]

:

Length of 16st pedestrian mall, 1 mile
(equivalent to about city hall to 8th st sw in Calgary)

# of Bars & Restaurants (this includes any sort of food service establishment) in Denver's downtown: `~324

# of Bars & Restaurants within 1 block of the pedestrian mall: ~160

# of downtown horse and carriage companies: 28
# of pedestrian mall restarants/bars with sidewalk patios: 36
# of sidewalk foot vendors on pedestrian mall (think portable carts): 39

Denver also has a warehouse district, known as Lower Downtown or Lodo, and some specs from that area:

24 restaraunts and bars
11 architectural firms
7 galleries
11 stores
12 personal services
plus museums, offices, etc

Trying to analyze why there was so so many shops/pubs/restaurants it occured to me, that for Calgary to be somewhat equivalent, 17th ave west to about 36 st sw, centre north to 32nd ave, 10th ave and 11th aves (with some 12th ave action), 9th ave in inglewood , and our 'warehouse district' would all have to be retail and entertainment, when in reality they're either extremely patchy, or partially overrun with office uses.


So I guess the purpose of this unstructured pile of info, is to get people's comments, wondering if there's anything to be drawn from a city that seems to 'work' as far as downtown pedestrian life which could be applied here in Calgary, or if people think that the direction Calgary is going will get there soon enough, or if it's just a lost cause.

Well, here's my comment. You can't fairly compare a Calgary to a city with three times the population. You should be comparing Calgary to places like Tulsa or Omaha. Those cities have similar populations.

Granted I've only been to downtown Denver once, but as I remember it, downtown did seem pretty busy, but not much busier than say 17th ave or Kensington. The downtown ped mall was busier than Stephen Ave mall after hours, but not during the day.

Keep in mind when comparing to other cities, not to use Calgary's CBD as your reference for comparison. 'Downtown' is not just the CBD.

[devonb]

Most definitely. There's already some street-wally 50's retail (think Taj Mahal/Memory Express and the hobby shop across the street from them) but it's too patchy to really do anything, having some redevelopment to fill in the gaps would be great.


I mentioned this before in the construction thread, but I know the Crescent Heights Community Association has approved a zoning change for the Tigerstaedt building on Centre St. and 8 Ave. They're saying they want a 6-8 story mixed use building with wide pedestrian friendly walkways. Supposedly, there is a reputable company interested in the site. This would be along the lines of what people have been talking about with midrise density, as well as the talk in the construction thread about what makes an area desirable (and too many highrise condos isn't good).

The community association here is quite tight and they've made the statement that they want this first project to really set the standard with how development will happen along Centre St. Should be interesting to see what unfolds. A good project in a location like that could do wonders for the street life. It's amazing what a small restaurant like Diner Deluxe has done for Edmonton Trail. People are actually hanging out and using the sidewalks.

[Wooster]

I mentioned this before in the construction thread, but I know the Crescent Heights Community Association has approved a zoning change for the Tigerstaedt building on Centre St. and 8 Ave. They're saying they want a 6-8 story mixed use building with wide pedestrian friendly walkways. Supposedly, there is a reputable company interested in the site. This would be along the lines of what people have been talking about with midrise density, as well as the talk in the construction thread about what makes an area desirable (and too many highrise condos isn't good).

The community association here is quite tight and they've made the statement that they want this first project to really set the standard with how development will happen along Centre St. Should be interesting to see what unfolds. A good project in a location like that could do wonders for the street life. It's amazing what a small restaurant like Diner Deluxe has done for Edmonton Trail. People are actually hanging out and using the sidewalks.

Good to hear. If I were a developer now, Centre would be of huge interest. Lots of awesome potential all the way from 8th street up to 28th.

[s211]

I went out for beers with a couple of co-workers last week and we got onto the discussion of Calgary and our thoughts on the city (2 are NFLD transplants, one Vancouverite, and myself the Torontonian). All of us said we won't be staying in Calgary, it's more of a place to get your career started, then leave and go elsewhere. This isn't the first time I've talked to people about this, and I think this mentality is a hindrance to making Calgary a great city. Obviously, I'm being completely hypocritical here since I'm in that boat, but it very much reminded me of when I was in Johannesburg and a friend said "no one wants to live in Joburg, we just come here to make money and leave". If the people moving to Calgary never intend to stay here, I think it makes it more difficult to create the 'feel' everyone likes in a great city, if that makes sense. I not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

I've lost count of the number of people I've met that basically moved to Calgary in order to breed. "It's a safe place to raise kids."

[240glt]

I've lost count of the number of people I've met that basically moved to Calgary in order to breed. "It's a safe place to raise kids."

Most of the people I know who moved to Calgary from BC in the 90's after school have left once they started having kids. Most headed back to the interior or suburban Vancouver, quite a few headed for places like Lethbridge or Saskatoon. Most of my friends still in Calgary are either DINKS or still single.

[Just Build It]

Most of the people I know who moved to Calgary from BC in the 90's after school have left once they started having kids. Most headed back to the interior or suburban Vancouver, quite a few headed for places like Lethbridge or Saskatoon. Most of my friends still in Calgary are either DINKS or still single.

There has been alot of that happening (just like every other major metropolitan area), but despite that Calgary still has a higher proportion of people under the age of 5 or under the age of 9 than any of the the cities you've mentioned.

[wild wild west]

Well, here's my comment. You can't fairly compare a Calgary to a city with three times the population. You should be comparing Calgary to places like Tulsa or Omaha. Those cities have similar populations.



Well, not really...metro Tulsa or Omaha, covering thousands of square miles each, are still smaller in population than Calgary city alone. Those cities are closer in population to Winnipeg than to Calgary. A more apt comparison might be Jacksonville, Memphis or Salt Lake. And in comparison to those cities' downtowns, I think we are doing very well.

Besides, I would argue metro population isn't that relevant to the health of downtown once cities reach "critical mass" size. Detroit, San Bernardino/Riverside and Phoenix are examples of large metropolitan areas that have weak downtowns. Calgary's population may be only 1.2 million, but its downtown workforce is comparable to that of much larger cities - so the scale of the downtown core, workforce, etc. is directly comparable to Denver's.

[Stephen Ave]

I agree wholeheartedly about that kind of attitude being a hindrance. In the past I've been guilty of that very mentality. When I first moved here (1998), I kept telling myself (and other people) that I was going to move back. Many of the people I hung our without were transplants like myself, and we often talked about how and when we were going to leave. Some of those friends did follow through and ended up leaving, but most are still here, and plan to stay. I'm pretty sure I'm here for good now.

What I've observed about Calgary, is that alot the people that move to the city stay. That's one reason the city has grown so fast - its ability to attract people and keep them.


I went out for beers with a couple of co-workers last week and we got onto the discussion of Calgary and our thoughts on the city (2 are NFLD transplants, one Vancouverite, and myself the Torontonian). All of us said we won't be staying in Calgary, it's more of a place to get your career started, then leave and go elsewhere. This isn't the first time I've talked to people about this, and I think this mentality is a hindrance to making Calgary a great city. Obviously, I'm being completely hypocritical here since I'm in that boat, but it very much reminded me of when I was in Johannesburg and a friend said "no one wants to live in Joburg, we just come here to make money and leave". If the people moving to Calgary never intend to stay here, I think it makes it more difficult to create the 'feel' everyone likes in a great city, if that makes sense. I not sure if anyone else has experienced this, but I'd love to hear some opinions.

[jeffwhit]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but it's the one that seemed like the best place to post and discuss Naheed Nenshi's TEDxCalgary talk.

qNAMH2_CLfo

[Rusty van Reddick]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but it's the one that seemed like the best place to post and discuss Naheed Nenshi's TEDxYYC talk.


Not meaning to nitpick, but this is TEDxCalgary. TEDxYYC, like TEDxUofC, were separate events with separate organizers.

[jeffwhit]

Fixed. Been spending too much time on the twitter machine. Didn't realize the difference.

[Shylo]

[QUOTE=freeweed;4229149]Tumbleweeds exist because we live on the open plains, in just about the most arid part of them. NYC would have tumbleweeds if it were located here. They're not afraid of crowds or anything. Maybe if a moose walked through downtown Calgary I'd be worried.


I hadn't read this thread before, but took a quick look through this morning and had to laugh at the above comment from a year ago.

[hulkrogan]

^ I was just about to quote the same thing. That is too funny!

[freeweed]

:jester: :jester: :jester: :jester: :jester:

Wow, that was positively CREEPY. Thanks for that, I needed a good belly laugh this week! :worship: