St. Joseph's | ? m | 9 fl | Approved [Archive]

Dmajackson

May 10, 2009, 7:24 PM

"Bedford_DJ":

St. Joseph’s historic church reduced to dust
North-end chapel was rebuilt after Explosion
By Our Staff
Sat. May 9 - 5:17 AM

A church raised from the ashes after it was levelled by the Halifax Explosion is now gone for good.

St. Joseph’s Catholic Church in Halifax’s north end was knocked down by machines Friday, almost two years after the Halifax diocese decided to shut it down.

About 700 people attended the historic church’s last mass in June 2006. While it was standing-room only on that day, the church had been crippled by declining membership and faced a repair bill of about $665,000.

Church officials combined the parish of the Russell Street church with that of St. Stephen’s Church after the 2004 report on the reorganization of the Halifax diocese.

Later engineering studies showed that St. Stephen’s needed less expensive and less immediate work, so services moved to the Normandy Drive church in the city’s far north end.

The congregation continues to worship there under the name of the Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta Parish.

The former St. Joseph’s site is a short walk to the historic Hydrostone area and a neighbouring Russell Street condominium development called Hydrostone Place.

According to the parish’s website, the St. Joseph’s property was sold in March 2008 to ECL Developments, which requested the development be called St. Joseph’s Square.

While many of the pieces from within the church — the chalices, statues and church records — were brought to the new parish, several items were given away. The stained glass windows dedicated in 1987 to victims of the Halifax Explosion were given to ECL "on the stipulation that they only be used in the development on the (church) property," the parish website states.

The church, which celebrated its 140th anniversary in 2005, was destroyed in the Dec. 6, 1917, blast in Halifax Harbour that devastated the city. Members worshipped in the church’s basement until the new church was completed in 1961.

Just to give an exact location of this it is one block over from 5552 Kaye Street. Also I'll try to remember to get a shot when I'm visting 5552 Kaye today.

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"Keith P.":

I grew up in that area and attended that church as a kid. As students at the adjacent school we would occasionally be herded into the basement for some sort of service. I always found it strange that it seemed to be 2 churches in one -- the newer, glitztier upstairs, and the older, workmanlike one in the basement.

I think it's unfortunate that the developer couldn't find a way to incorporate the structure into the development.

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"Bedford_DJ":

Here are some photos from today about the St. Joseph's Church (all taken by me);

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3390/3516086082_97bb3058ef_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/3515277331_5393787d27_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3515278249_15c21a190e_b.jpg

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"someone123":

It does seem like a waste to be tearing down buildings like that. Hopefully the replacement will be nice.

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"DigitalNinja":

Whats going up in it's place?

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"gm_scott":

Condos apparently

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"hfx_chris":

I have to admit, I always hate seeing churches torn down...

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"planarchy":

From Ekistics website (http://www.ekistics.net/portfolio/environmental/6.html#)

http://www.ekistics.net/images/portfolioEP/ENV6-2.jpg
http://www.ekistics.net/images/portfolioEP/ENV6-1.jpg

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"DigitalNinja":

Looks nice will go nicely with the one going up on kay street and the hydro stone.

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"Bedford_DJ":

Ah WoW! :omg:

I was not expecting anything that impressive!

If this goes through Gottigen will look a lot different! :cool:

DigitalNinja

May 10, 2009, 7:39 PM

They should have waited to see if it went threw before tearing down the chuch.

Also looks to me its 11 floors there is one on the top of the townhouse places that you missed that is also in the tower.

gm_scott

May 10, 2009, 9:02 PM

I saw a story on the news a couple of days ago. They said the church had to come down because they couldn't afford the repairs to make it usable.

Wishblade

May 10, 2009, 9:45 PM

I count 12 stories on this development actually.

someone123

May 10, 2009, 9:59 PM

I like it. Not my favourite style but it's well-suited to the area, and I think it is nicer than a lot of similar developments outside of the downtown.

That part of the city is doing quite well and should become a lot busier in the future. As I've said before, there's tons of room for new buildings along Gottingen (both sides of North), Agricola, and Young Street.

worldlyhaligonian

May 10, 2009, 10:13 PM

Yeah, its going to add alot to the visual down the street with the Falkland development almost complete and that newer tower development at North.

Jonovision

May 10, 2009, 11:25 PM

Not a bad building at all. I did not expect something of that size down there. I really like the appearance of house like units on the street with the tower set back. And that corner is a perfect place for some nice public art. Maybe something to represent the church that was lost.

Nilan8888

May 10, 2009, 11:42 PM

So... not to derail from this project in particular (hey man, looks good compratively), given projects like these how far would one say we are from say, returning Gottigen street to what it was in the 50s? Or maybe not quite THAT good, but y'know, something that's got a bit of a better reputation?

The Staples being where it is has done a little bit in terms of the immediate area of the Cogswell intersection, but I've been hoping for, someday, something a bit broader that goes all the way down the street.

I'm all for affordable housing but... look I mean if the viewplanes are so untouchable, Downtown's gotta grow in one direction or another, right? And it can't grow up into the Citadel and commons... and there's only so much to the south (and there's more of those bloody viewplanes THERE too).

I figure if we needed major extensions to the downtown, it would have to go north.

Takeo

May 10, 2009, 11:44 PM

spaustin

May 11, 2009, 1:22 AM

Awesome. Approximately a million times nicer than the crap new building across the street from it. As a local resident (I live about a block from the site)... I'm very happy! Looks great! Ok... I may not be 100% crazy about the faux mansard roof on the tower element... but overall... the massing... the articulation... the townhouses... the big open corner... nice.

The faux Mansard roof could work as long as they don't use that ugly green metal that has been way overdone around town! (Waterfront Place, Letson Court, Renassiance etc). If they're doing the mansard, they should spend the bucks and put something of quality in there. The mansard on the Waterford for example looks fine. On the whole, from the limited info available, this looks like a decent development.

Dmajackson

May 11, 2009, 2:23 AM

I think this has the potential to turn out great if properly done. :)

It's the third large development within a three block area and well it would greatly add to the livability and business around the Hydrostone.

I personally love the area and think that the area just south of the Hydrostone could become a very neat sub-downtown for the peninsula.

Jonovision

May 11, 2009, 2:59 PM

After looking at it a bit more I am slightly concerned with the two smaller sides of the tower. They appear to have lots of blank wall.

Takeo

May 11, 2009, 8:54 PM

After looking at it a bit more I am slightly concerned with the two smaller sides of the tower. They appear to have lots of blank wall.

You need somewhere to put furniture :)

Jringe01

May 13, 2009, 7:42 PM

Yeah, its going to add alot to the visual down the street with the Falkland development almost complete and that newer tower development at North.

There's something new going up on North or are you refering to those new towers on Gladstone?

Waye Mason

May 13, 2009, 10:25 PM

I like it, and it will contribute nicely to the urban feel of that commercial square there that the Hydrostones front onto. Too bad the other new apartment building there is so gosh darn ugly.

Andy P

May 14, 2009, 3:04 PM

Looks like a really nice project. This area is really coming along

Jstaleness

Jun 3, 2009, 10:10 PM

I drove by this site this afternoon. They have removed most of the old remains. The old foundation still stands about a foot or so and thats about it.

someone123

Jun 4, 2009, 12:21 AM

I passed by the site today too. I don't like the design much but I think the scale is great for the area.

Seems like everything from Cogswell to the "far north" is improving a lot.

Jonovision

Jun 4, 2009, 2:16 AM

This building looks like it has a great place for another public art installation.

Phalanx

Jun 4, 2009, 2:48 AM

This building looks like it has a great place for another public art installation.

I don't know if I trust them to pick another one...

Dmajackson

Jun 4, 2009, 3:06 AM

This building looks like it has a great place for another public art installation.

Yah probably on the corner of Kaye and Gottingen..

Hopefully if they put something there it will truely compliment the Hydrostone District. Models of the Imo and Mont Blanc or some sort of memorial would look good if properly done. :)

Takeo

Jun 4, 2009, 12:50 PM

Yah probably on the corner of Kaye and Gottingen..

Hopefully if they put something there it will truely compliment the Hydrostone District. Models of the Imo and Mont Blanc or some sort of memorial would look good if properly done. :)

Models? Of the ships that killed 2000 people in an instant?

A memorial could be a good starting point. For public art I always favour something contemporary and abstract.

beyeas

Jun 4, 2009, 1:13 PM

Models? Of the ships that killed 2000 people in an instant?

A memorial could be a good starting point. For public art I always favour something contemporary and abstract.

I agree whole heartedly. Literal public art, especially ones based on local themes, just have a tendency towards being cheesy.

It is time for Halifax to start demonstrating it has something to offer other than its past. We seem to be a city (sorry... municipality) that is afraid to be proud of its present/future. Nothing wrong with respecting the past, but we also have more to offer than lighthouses and ships.

phrenic

Jun 4, 2009, 1:20 PM

Nothing wrong with respecting the past, but we also have more to offer than lighthouses and ships.

Maybe they will put in a big stainless steel lobster statue. With led lights for eyes.

BravoZulu

Jun 4, 2009, 3:34 PM

Maybe they will put in a big stainless steel lobster statue. With led lights for eyes.

DAMN! you stole my idea.....there goes my chances of being a famous artist ;)

Dmajackson

Jun 6, 2009, 5:23 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3309/3601131304_8f2fd95fee_b.jpg
Credit: Me :)

Models? Of the ships that killed 2000 people in an instant?

A memorial could be a good starting point. For public art I always favour something contemporary and abstract.

Well I've never actually seen what the ships would of been like ... And remember that was the first thing that came to my head.

Something contemporary and abstract could be nice. I just think something to act as memorial could be a good gateway to the Hydrostone District viz Gottingen. :)

HaliStreaks

Jun 6, 2009, 11:47 PM

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3309/3601131304_8f2fd95fee_b.jpg
Credit: Me :)

Good lord I would love to get into that half doorway/tunnel at the far side of the lot to poke around underground. :yes:

Phalanx

Jun 7, 2009, 12:32 AM

A fountain might be nice. There aren't too many public fountain's I can think of outside of parks. Would also discourage graffiti.

Takeo

Jun 7, 2009, 2:50 AM

Something contemporary and abstract could be nice. I just think something to act as memorial could be a good gateway to the Hydrostone District viz Gottingen. :)

I agree. Let's just hope it doesn't have a lighthouse sculpture :)

Dmajackson

Oct 23, 2009, 8:20 PM

Does anyone know whatever happened to this project?

Because I'm looking at the council agenda for Tuesday and there's LUB and MPS ammendments on Tuesday for something of this block ...

Dmajackson

Oct 24, 2009, 3:07 AM

I just double checked the numbers and the LUB/MPS ammendments are for this lot for sure.

worldlyhaligonian

Oct 24, 2009, 4:23 PM

Lets hope that the proposal is made more attractive before it is brought to market.

fenwick16

Oct 25, 2009, 6:36 PM

When I saw this proposal I thought that it looked very impressive.

Dmajackson

Oct 25, 2009, 8:05 PM

I don't mind it either. Its not perfect for the lot but it will be a lot better than the current developments happening up there (except maybe 5552 Kaye).

Dmajackson

Oct 26, 2009, 7:19 PM

New info;

11 floors
~42m
ground floor retail and townhouse style condos

11.1.7 Case 01325 - Municipal Planning Strategy and Land Use By-Law Amendments for 5454 Kaye Street / 5455 Russell Street, Halifax (9.4 Mb)
(http://www.halifax.ca/council/agendasc/documents/091027ca1117.pdf)

kph06

Oct 26, 2009, 7:49 PM

To me it looks like those cookie cutter Hampton Inn/Holiday Inn/etc that have been going up.

Jonovision

Oct 27, 2009, 12:06 AM

I lifted these elevations off the document.

http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/44553/2063699230096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2063699230096709958sYWwiJ)

http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/45521/2211698930096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2211698930096709958VYQxUB)

http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/42855/2450299180096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2450299180096709958vpuoBs)

http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/44283/2676073760096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2676073760096709958pMAueF)

someone123

Oct 27, 2009, 2:14 AM

Looks pretty good. Mixed commercial/residential ground floor and they are reusing some building materials from the old church.

The main thing that weirds me out about this, and lots of other projects in Halifax, is that they needlessly add little "flourishes" like those curved cornices and little circles. It looks like a tacky pastiche because it is mixed with other styles and because the quality of building materials is not there.

I do really like that this area is coming together into more of a real commercial "node" in the North End. I would like to see lots more infill and urban commercial development stretching up Gottingen then along Young to Windsor Street or so.

phrenic

Oct 27, 2009, 11:03 AM

..and it begins.

allnovascotia.com has Jerry Blumenthal saying he can't support this;

- it's out of scale with the area
- there could be wind tunnel problems
- "I know a lot of people will be upset with the height"
- "If they had come up with an eight story building, I wouldn't have any problems"
- "I know a lot of people on Russel and Kaye streets will be off the wall"

Takeo

Oct 27, 2009, 12:54 PM

Whatever Jerry Blumenthal. I live on Union Street and I think this development is awesome. So great for the area. This area has such potential with the Hydrostone Market... but the market alone is far too small. We need more street level retail here. So this is fantastic. I'm still upset about the atrocity that was built across the street from here a few years ago. Where was the outrage for that piece of mediocre crap? Just goes to prove my point once again... Haligonians don't give a flying f*** about quality... they only get worked up when something is "tall". It could be designed by a world-renowned architect and made of the most beautiful and expensive materials available. Doesn't matter. If it's more than 6 stories... watch out!! Oh well.

Speaking of materials... how great is it that they are re-using the stone from the church!!! I watched for months as workers stripped the church bare and piled the stones on shrink-wrapped palettes. I was wonder what they planned to do with those palettes of stone. That's great. The cladding looks great overall. Lots of glass. And it's not all precast. It's precast mixed with really dark brick (classy) and stone. Nice.

The only thing I don't like... and that's putting it mildly... is that stupid, tacky arched cornice on the front elevation. WHY!?!?!?! Why the need to take what looks like an otherwise nice modern building and throw in some tacky neo-classical crap? ARGH!

But other than that... I think it's awesome. About the right height. Fantastic mix of commercial and residential. Perhaps even nicer than the Kaye St building. Altho' it's not really a fair comparison since this project had a lot more room to work with.

..and it begins.

allnovascotia.com has Jerry Blumenthal saying he can't support this;

- it's out of scale with the area
- there could be wind tunnel problems
- "I know a lot of people will be upset with the height"
- "If they had come up with an eight story building, I wouldn't have any problems"
- "I know a lot of people on Russel and Kaye streets will be off the wall"

Takeo

Oct 27, 2009, 1:08 PM

"If they had come up with an eight story building, I wouldn't have any problems"

p.s. Really Jerry? 8 floors... no problemo! Great! Love it! 11 floors... all hell breaks lose. Really?!?! Good lord. :koko:

Dmajackson

Oct 27, 2009, 7:11 PM

Meh really how often does the local councillor support a project. Just think of how many times Sloane's shot down downtown projects that were approved.

worldlyhaligonian

Oct 27, 2009, 8:52 PM

11 stories is pretty scary stuff guys: first born children will die:babyeat:, hurricane winds will destroy the north end :drowning: , and the city will be cast in a shadow for eternity .

but 8 stories is fine, especially if the lowest quality materials possible are used. (i'm thinking clad the whole thing in vinyl siding that resembles board and batten) also, rediculously fake features must be added to the building to give it that "Halifax" look. rooflines should also be completely unresolved.

hey jerry...

:gtfo2:

Takeo

Oct 27, 2009, 10:24 PM

Dmajackson

Oct 27, 2009, 10:29 PM

Nilan8888

Oct 28, 2009, 12:48 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen after much thought and consideration, the following consists of my formal rebuttal to Mr. Blumenthal's arguments:

*ahem*

Screw 'im.

Thank you.

Dmajackson

Oct 28, 2009, 1:45 AM

I just thought of a good burn for Hydrostone Place;

Most people don't like tall buildings because of the shadow. Near Hydrostone Place they like shadows becuase they can't see it.

worldlyhaligonian

Oct 28, 2009, 3:47 AM

ha ha ha :) You realize you just described the new apartment building across the street from the St. Joseph's site. LOL. BTW... I love the baby eat icon. Hilarious.

LOL, thats what I was going for... although it could describe a number of recent developments.

Ultimately this thing will probably get through with 11 stories... as the heritage folks don't give a shit about the north end and they are the only group (and their offshoots, i.e. anything with "friends" of something) that actually is effective in stalling or changing developments.

Takeo

Oct 28, 2009, 1:19 PM

Ultimately this thing will probably get through with 11 stories... as the heritage folks don't give a shit about the north end and they are the only group (and their offshoots, i.e. anything with "friends" of something) that actually is effective in stalling or changing developments.

This is true. The "friends of whatever" is mostly a South End thing. I hope that my North End neighbours are more reasonable.

kph06

Oct 29, 2009, 2:32 PM

Well the Herald has printed the first article about height concerns. They could save time by having a generic template for these articles, its always the same complaints. I feel now a proposal isn't official until the Herald prints one of these.

Source: The Chronical Herald (http://thechronicleherald.ca/Business/1150101.html)

Concern over height of Halifax condo project

By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Thu. Oct 29 - 4:46 AM

An 11-storey condo building proposed for north-end Halifax is raising concerns about the height of the project and whether it will create a wind tunnel in the neighbourhood.

Council gave city planners the go-ahead this week to examine the plan in detail for the property bounded by Kaye, Russell and Gottingen streets.

Sobeys-owned ECL General Partnership IV Ltd. wants to erect the mixed-use commercial and residential building surrounded by townhouses on the site of the former St. Joseph’s Church, which was torn down last summer.

"I’m worried about the height because the highest building in the area is going up right now and it’s seven storeys," Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said Wednesday.

"It’s massive. That’s why we recommend that we get a lot of public consultation. It’s going to be a success or failure, depending on what the people in the area have to say about it."

Mr. Blumenthal wants to know if the wind that blows off Bedford Basin will be magnified by the project.

"I fear there’s going to be a lot of wind. If you go up Fort Needham hill, . . . you get blown away."

The land is now zoned for park and institutional use. ECL wants council to change that to allow for the residential project.

"If my residents don’t want it, you’re going to see me fight like hell against it," Mr. Blumenthal said.

Russell Street resident Wanda Bianco doesn’t like the idea of such a large building going up in her neighbourhood.

"I don’t think it’s very appropriate," said Ms. Bianco, who has lived in the neighbourhood more than half a century.

"Oh my heavens to Betsy, I think it will look like a sore stump sticking out around the area because there’s nothing that high around here."

She’s also worried the tall building may create a wind tunnel.

"The wind around here is quite high. It would present, I think, a problem."

Steve Mustain, director of the nearby Shambhala School, also has questions about whether the building will blend into the area. But he likes the idea of adding high-density housing to the neighbourhood.

"I think it’s a positive thing, in general, in the sense that the vitality of the Hydrostone area is really on the increase," Mr. Mustain said.

Public consultation on the proposal will take place within the next few months, said Richard Harvey, the city’s senior planner.

"We think there’s sufficient merit in which to engage the public."

He wants to see if elements of the building’s design will mitigate people’s height concerns.

"You just look at it with regards to compatibility and the effects upon its surroundings."

He doesn’t anticipate the building will cause wind problems.

"The preliminary indications that we have are that it won’t," said Mr. Harvey, noting that it has varied shapes that will break down the wind.

ECL did not return repeated calls for comment.

In the company’s application letter to the city, development manager Virginia Bonn said the project, dubbed St. Joseph’s Square, will have two floors of underground parking.

"It is our intention to attract a diverse target market, including families with children to first-time home buyers," Ms. Bonn writes.

"The town homes are intended for the families, but also allow for a consistent, human-scaled street wall above which the building steps back. The windows and doors of the townhouses create visual interest, and a separate, low-rise identity from the highrise tower. We are also proposing to dedicate a small area for neighbourhood commercial uses that support family living."

She notes the property is close to Hydrostone shops, transit service, schools and nearby parks.

"It is a fully sustainable redevelopment site that will utilize existing infrastructure and is located in an area that will make walking and transit appealing."

hoser111

Oct 29, 2009, 3:54 PM

"Oh my heavens to Betsy"......

Geez, who says that any more? :)

Wishblade

Oct 29, 2009, 4:06 PM

Geez, who says that any more? :)

Im guessing she's probably some 80 year old NIMBY. God what a stupid phrase to say :rolleyes:

Jonovision

Oct 29, 2009, 7:02 PM

Geez, who says that any more? :)

hahahahah That is exactly what I said when I read it to a friend this morning.

There was a nice elevation of the front of the building with the article but it wasn't posted online.

I agree that the little stupid arch on top should be cut out of the design. In the elevation you can clearly see the reused brick as well which is a very nice feature. However it did concern me that it looked like they might use some sort of wooden siding for a good chunk of the building. Not sure how I feel about that.

Takeo

Oct 29, 2009, 7:13 PM

However it did concern me that it looked like they might use some sort of wooden siding for a good chunk of the building. Not sure how I feel about that.

Really? What makes you think that? The renderings I looked at only specified glass, stone, brick and tinted pre-cast.

worldlyhaligonian

Oct 29, 2009, 9:44 PM

Geez, who says that any more? :)

People that have no business commenting on development...

Jonovision

Oct 30, 2009, 3:09 AM

Really? What makes you think that? The renderings I looked at only specified glass, stone, brick and tinted pre-cast.

Maybe it was brick, but the part that clads the top two floors and runs down between the balconies appeared to be similar to the material used on the balcony areas of the Falkland Street development. I could be wrong though. I would much rather it was more brick from the church.

Andy P

Feb 24, 2010, 1:31 PM

All Nova Scotia reports(2010-02-23) ECL properties could be ready to unveil it's Ambitious plan for an 11 Story Condo Building in the North End as early as April. I think this project looks good and will be great for the North End.

Andy P

Mar 1, 2010, 1:14 PM

Couple of artist renderings of St Josephs Square from All Nova Scotia. Exciting project

http://bit.ly/dlasPF

http://bit.ly/9eO5jo

planarchy

Mar 1, 2010, 1:20 PM

Couple of artist renderings of St Josephs Square from All Nova Scotia. Exciting project

http://bit.ly/dlasPF

http://bit.ly/9eO5jo

Aside from the cheap SketchUp renderings, this looks good. Good treatment of the prominent corner, and nice townhouse podium configuration. Not sure about some of the detailing - it looks like they are trying to incorporate some of the old church (windows/brick?). I think this site could have taken something much taller, a preferable less heavy and fat tower, but overall, a good addition to the hydrostone area.

Keith P.

Mar 1, 2010, 1:41 PM

I think this site could have taken something much taller, a preferable less heavy and fat tower, but overall, a good addition to the hydrostone area.

Can't have tall -- this is Halifax after all, with its phobia about anything more than 8 storeys of so.

I think the tower looks a little bit like every other apartment/condo tower built or proposed locally in the last few years. Disappointing design.

Jonovision

Mar 1, 2010, 3:46 PM

I think it looks alright. Nothing amazing. But not too bad either. I think I would have liked to see a more contrasting tower. I do really like the podium with the exception of the blank wall in the first rendering. There are no excuses for blank walls on street sides anymore. But the tower portion perhaps should have been more glass or more modern in design.

I clipped these from those sites.

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/45064/2798732820096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2798732820096709958OyDiCX)

http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/43620/2753145780096709958S600x600Q85.jpg (http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2753145780096709958hFwLwV)

-Harlington-

Mar 1, 2010, 4:21 PM

i think it looks good
its not amazing or anything
but its good for the area, good fit.

Empire

Mar 1, 2010, 10:23 PM

haligonia

Mar 1, 2010, 10:29 PM

I like the look of this one. I also think it will add a lot of vibrancy to the neighbourhood. This and 5552 Kaye really are good fits for the area, and the retail will just add onto the great retail of the Hydrostone Market

someone123

Mar 1, 2010, 10:56 PM

The best thing about this is that it will add more people to the area. It is particularly nice because of the Hydrostone market and a few other buildings that can serve as a kind of nucleation point for a medium density neighbourhood. There are also lots of changes happening along Gottingen and Agricola.. in the past they felt like a bit of a wasteland, but now they are more like the southern parts of Hollis or Barrington of a few years ago.

fenwick16

Mar 1, 2010, 11:09 PM

I especially like the street level townhouse component of this development. This is an idea that might work well in a number of areas in the HRM. It also has street level retail.

DigitalNinja

Mar 2, 2010, 4:30 AM

I agree, this isn't anything amazing, but it does the job it's supposed to do. At least it has street level retail, or part, at the town houses look ok as well as a bottom floor.

Halifax Hillbilly

Mar 3, 2010, 12:08 AM

I especially like the street level townhouse component of this development. This is an idea that might work well in a number of areas in the HRM. It also has street level retail.

Agreed, this should work well on this street, and maybe others like Windsor. The tower is ok, but overall a good project at street level will add to this area. Reasonable height.

terrynorthend

Mar 3, 2010, 1:13 AM

Where does this sit now in terms of process? Approved? Shovels about to hit the ground?

fenwick16

Mar 3, 2010, 1:24 AM

Where does this sit now in terms of process? Approved? Shovels about to hit the ground?

According to the allnovascotia.com, public hearings will start in April with a sales campaign possibly by the end of the year. So construction is likely about 2 years away according to a source in the allnovascotia.com (Mike April, vp of ECL)

Dmajackson

Apr 1, 2010, 7:22 PM

April 29, 2010 Public information meeting

St. Joseph’s Alexander McKay Elementary School (gym)

5389 Russell Street, Halifax - 7:00 p.m.

Case 01325 - Application by ECL Properties Limited to amend the Halifax Municipal Planning Strategy and Halifax Peninsula Land Use By-law to permit an 11 storey mixed use residential/commercial building on the east side of Gottingen Street, between Kaye and Russell Streets, the site of the former St. Joseph's Church, Halifax, by development agreement.

gmanupnorth

Apr 6, 2010, 12:10 PM

Yeah, finally get the ball rolling on this project. Hopefully it gets approved

Empire

Apr 6, 2010, 1:31 PM

According to the allnovascotia.com, public hearings will start in April with a sales campaign possibly by the end of the year. So construction is likely about 2 years away according to a source in the allnovascotia.com (Mike April, vp of ECL)

Interesting how they were allowed to demolish the church and leave a tax reduced hole in the ground for 3+ years?

Halifax Hillbilly

Apr 6, 2010, 3:40 PM

Interesting how they were allowed to demolish the church and leave a tax reduced hole in the ground for 3+ years?

Yeah this needs to be addressed, it explains many of the holes found throughout the city.

worldlyhaligonian

Apr 7, 2010, 3:18 PM

What I'm most happy about is that this will be visible from the Dartmouth side / the bridge. :cheers:

Young Tower and Gladstone ridge won't look so lonely.

gmanupnorth

Apr 7, 2010, 4:21 PM

Looking forward to attending the public meeting in 3 weeks. I'm sure the usual complaints will be aired.(its too tall...., it will cause a wind tunnel, it will cause cancer :-)

Gordon

-Harlington-

Apr 7, 2010, 6:31 PM

What I'm most happy about is that this will be visible from the Dartmouth side / the bridge. :cheers:

Young Tower and Gladstone ridge won't look so lonely.

my thoughts exactly the north end is growing and this is good you can and will see a lot of it from the Dartmouth side and its going to be better with this not to mention the street scape.

DigitalNinja

Apr 12, 2010, 5:24 AM

Looking forward to attending the public meeting in 3 weeks. I'm sure the usual complaints will be aired.(its too tall...., it will cause a wind tunnel, it will cause cancer :-)

Gordon

Don't you know? Tall buildings transmit an alien disease to people to make them oppose tall buildings, only a few Halgonians are immune to it.

worldlyhaligonian

Apr 12, 2010, 5:10 PM

Don't you know? Tall buildings transmit an alien disease to people to make them oppose tall buildings, only a few Halgonians are immune to it.

Lol, even some on a skyscraper forum have been infected...

Dmajackson

Apr 16, 2010, 8:00 PM

Case 01325 Details (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/DetailsCase01325.html)

Jonovision

Apr 17, 2010, 6:43 PM

Keith P.

Apr 17, 2010, 7:01 PM

I would think they would at least be able to rotate their images. It is not that difficult. I didn't realize this was Kassner Goodspeed. Knowing that I have some faith that this could turn out quite nicely. The Paramount is one of my favorite recent buildings in Halifax and this seems to have a similar pallet.

Looks like another disappointing cookie-cutter precast wonder to me. Aside from the Paramount, I have been unimpressed with Kassner Goodspeed's work.

someone123

Apr 17, 2010, 8:23 PM

Yes, their buildings tend to have very cheap materials and look disappointing. At best they usually end up looking like they'd be okay if the developer had "splurged" (on a building where the condos average $500k or whatever...) and used something other than stucco for the fake cornices.

The Lexington in particular is one of those. It's not bad but the brickwork is a little sloppy in sections and there are bits of exposed concrete column and balcony. It's not unattractive, but they definitely cut corners.

Looking at building plans submitted to the HRM it's not hard to see why this happens. I had a look again at the elevations for the Vic apartments at Hollis and Morris the other day and they said things like "stone or stone veneer/stucco". I also remember back when the Marriott was being planned and there was talk of how the building would be brick with stone accents. When it actually went up it was a different story.

I know it's not economically infeasible to use good cladding materials because some affordable developments do it and some expensive ones do not. Exterior finishing and design quality seems totally uncorrelated with budgets and profits, which suggests to me that the city should be imposing higher standards.

Dmajackson

Apr 22, 2010, 7:31 PM

Both of these are from the project's detail page (http://www.halifax.ca/planning/Case01325Details.html)

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/images/01325ViewFromRussellSt.jpg

http://www.halifax.ca/planning/images/01325ViewFromKayeSt.jpg

halifaxboyns

Apr 22, 2010, 7:49 PM

While I don't like the concrete colour (assuming that is concrete), my only problem is the blank wall effect created as you go up the podium. If the building walls were some how articulated or broken up with say a window feature or something or even a becorative feature stretching up the building walls - I think that would fix that problem. Otherwise, I'd be more than happy to buy one of the townhouse units, I think that would be a great spot to live.

Keith P.

Apr 30, 2010, 11:15 AM

Disappointingly (but not surprisingly), this got a rough ride at the hearing Thursday:

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1179939.html

Highrise condos raise concern
North-end residents weigh in on proposal
By DAVENE JEFFREY Staff Reporter
Fri. Apr 30 - 4:54 AM

John Murphy’s family has lived on Russell Street in north-end Halifax for four generations.

"I’ve seen this neighbourhood deteriorate little by little," Murphy said Thursday night in addressing a public information meeting about a proposed condo complex on his street.

Sobeys-owned ECL Properties Ltd. wants to build an 11-storey condo tower surrounded by two-storey townhouses and commercial space on the site of St. Joseph’s Church. The complex would be called St. Joseph’s Square.

Traffic and congestion were hot topics at the public meeting that filled the gym of Ecole St. Joseph’s A. McKay School.

"We’ve got apartments sprouting up here like mushrooms," Alex McCleave said. "This looming project is going to dominate the community."

The entrance to the condo tower’s 94 underground parking spaces would be on Russell Street, where drivers could encounter children walking to the street’s two schools — St. Joseph’s and the Shambhala School.

The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

"I’m not going to be able to get out of my driveway," one resident complained.

The developer’s traffic studies estimate the complex would cause just a 2.5 per cent increase in peak morning traffic, or 22 trips in and out of the building.

McCleave also worried that condo residents would park underground for the duration of the winter parking ban but on the street the rest of the year, as happens in many areas of the city’s south end.

Another resident pointed out that the 36-metre condo tower would be just nine metres lower than the Macdonald bridge.

Patrick LeRoy, whose family owns a small investment property on Gottingen Street, urged the group to look favourably on the condo proposal.

"We need this type of density on peninsular Halifax," he said, explaining that urban sprawl is hard on city coffers.

A shade study suggested there will be little impact on area homes, but resident Mark Butler doesn’t like that the St. Joseph’s school playground will be blocked from the sun.

Butler said he is in favour of population density, but "the height to me seems excessive."

Landscape architect Rob LeBlanc told the meeting that the roofs of the townhouses would be designed to dissipate any wind-tunnel effect caused by the tower.

Murphy sat on the committee that sold the church property. The church will get $20,000 for each condo unit built, but Murphy said he was shocked to hear that the present proposal calls for 85 units. He was expecting 50 to 60 and is concerned that the project may now be too big for the neighbourhood.

Virginia Bond of ECL Properties said condo prices would be in line with north-end property values.

The site is zoned for institutional development and parks. For construction to go ahead, council would have to approve a zoning change.

It is estimated that construction would take five years, create 340 jobs, and bring in $2.5 million in taxes.

Murphy and other residents fear the lengthy construction period would lead to decreased enrolment at St. Joseph’s school, possibly resulting in its closure.

someone123

Apr 30, 2010, 11:32 AM

There was a wonderful quote in Allnovascotia from a resident suggesting he or she might have to attend the funerals of children struck by cars that would be present in this area because of the new development.

I wonder how it is that Sacred Heart still exists given the fact that it has a highrise right next door and three others on adjacent blocks. It's a miracle they didn't close down back when there was construction, and there must be constant carnage of uniformed kids mowed down by condo dwellers.

fenwick16

Apr 30, 2010, 11:57 AM

This quote is good also:

Murphy and other residents fear the lengthy construction period would lead to decreased enrolment at St. Joseph’s school, possibly resulting in its closure.

I didn't realize that condo owners were such evil people. Mowing down kids with their cars and forcing the closure of schools.

sdm

Apr 30, 2010, 12:03 PM

Keith P.

Apr 30, 2010, 12:22 PM

I didn't realize that condo owners were such evil people. Mowing down kids with their cars and forcing the closure of schools.

My favorite quote is this one:

"The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

How is this the fault of this development? Sounds to me it is the fault of the school and/or the yuppie parents who are committing such dastardly acts.

beyeas

Apr 30, 2010, 12:48 PM

My favorite quote is this one:

"The street is jammed every morning with parents dropping children off and parking illegally on both sides of the street, the meeting heard.

How is this the fault of this development? Sounds to me it is the fault of the school and/or the yuppie parents who are committing such dastardly acts.

hey, we agree on something! :jester:
LOL

halifaxboyns

Apr 30, 2010, 7:14 PM

This is typical nimby at it's best. It's the developers fault for people illegally parking on the street (before the building even exists) - god I've heard that one before. Fine, call parking enforcement.

Playground in shade? Give me a break.
And as for the parking crossing a sidewalk - I love the comments some have brought up about sacred heart - I guess that will have to be shut down (or it can be used as great context to support this). Besides, there are ways to put warning measures up for pedestrians to alert them a vehicle is coming out (like an alarm or a flashing light or both). We have them in the downtown core of Calgary all over the place and they work very nicely.

You know, i'm sure that if this is built and you go back in say five years and ask these people why they didn't support it; they will have changed their tunes.

mcmcclassic

Apr 30, 2010, 7:32 PM

I really wish that people in this city would learn that 10-11 storeys is not an excessive height for a condo building. I also agree that the illegial parking by parents is a ridiculous excuse to prohibit the construction of a new building. The north end has fallen into disrepair in my opinion and moves to re-develop it should be welcomed, not scorned.

someone123

May 1, 2010, 12:57 AM

halifaxboyns

May 1, 2010, 9:03 AM

I don't think it's a matter of them knowing what is or isn't a reasonable height in the city - they know that buildings of 11 storeys exist in other neighbourhoods, and in their area, but they don't want one near them so they are reaching for ridiculous excuses. Making rational arguments doesn't work when you are dealing with somebody who is being irrational, and I can't think of any other way to explain some of these comments.

It sounds like these two communities I did a rezoning in, here in Calgary. This developer owned 5 lots which were all low density, single family houses - with a back lane. The lots were nice a segregated from the rest of the community and he'd tried 4 times before to do a tall senior's facility - the communities (which I won't name) all opposed it and had the rezoning quashed at council.

Calgary's new land use bylaw comes along with this special multi-family district that really is townhousing but in a glorified form, up to 12m in height. So he proposes to use this new zone (M-CG) and build a building which would be 2m taller than the maximum height of the single family homes around it. They go nuts, oppose it for everything from extra crime, extra traffic to the issue of renters and (this was my favorite) extra dog poop in the park nearby. I had to bite my tongue at public hearing - but it passed because policy supported it. If there is strong policy there than regardless of their issues; then there is reason (already approved by council) to support it. IN addition, there is context. There are already some taller residential near by and the Oland Brewery is pretty tall; so this is the next logical step.

Context is a big deal in inner city development here in Calgary - if you look at our land use bylaw (1P2007) - a lot of the districts (zones) have a 'C' in them; because it means contextual. That means that the location of the building in terms of the front setback and buildnig height is based on adjacent buildings and averaged with some slight move forward (towards the street) or extra height. Probably wouldn't help in this case - but certainly an interesting idea.

gmanupnorth

May 3, 2010, 1:04 PM

halifaxboyns

May 3, 2010, 4:57 PM

Here is my 2 cents.

My wife and I were at the meeting and it was as expected, very negative in regard to the height/size and perceived impact on the community.

I'm sure that ECL will have to make some changes to their proposal over the coming year as this process un-folds. However, HRM wants this type of development in the North End and cannot pass up the tax revenue that this project will generate.

I am looking forward to seeing this development become a reality.

It seems to me that the area you live in appears to be converting into an urban village, for the inner city. I think this is a good thing - to have a good pocket of density in that area, especially with the unique bonus of the shops at the hydrostone. I know i'm excited about this project and even though the opportunities for me to return to Halifax slim; I'd be tempted to buy a townhouse and just use it when I visit or rent it out until I come back.

Haliguy

Jul 29, 2010, 11:38 AM

Quite unbeliveable really...

Condo tower may get shorter
City, developer in talks; neighbours upset with north-end proposal
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Thu, Jul 29 - 4:53 AM
Municipal planners are working with Sobeys-owned ECL Properties Ltd. to shrink an 11-storey condominium tower proposed for north-end Halifax, says the local councillor.

The building’s height has drawn fire from residents, Coun. Jerry Blumenthal (Halifax North End) said in a recent interview.

"Planning is working with ECL now because the height of the building is causing a little havoc," Blumenthal said.

"It’s in an area that the highest building is seven (storeys). Across the street there are sixes and sevens and fives. To put an 11-storey building there sort of changes the whole area."

He wouldn’t say exactly how much he would like to see the project shrink.

"I would like to see it a little smaller. I would like to see it fit in the area."

The proposed condominium tower would be surrounded by two-storey townhouses and commercial space on the site of the former St. Joseph’s Church, which was torn down last summer. The complex, on a property bounded by Kaye, Russell and Gottingen streets, would be called St. Joseph’s Square.

Virginia Bonn of ECL Properties could not be reached for comment.

"We have been talking about (changes), but I don’t have anything on paper and I’m not really sure what they’re going to come back with," said Patricia Hughes, a planner with Halifax Regional Municipality working on the project.

"We’ve batted around a few ideas, but until I have something on paper, it’s all up in the air."

The site is zoned for institutional development and parks. For construction to go ahead, council would have to approve a zoning change.

"We don’t like these things to drag out forever, so we are hoping to move forward one way or another in the near future," Hughes said Wednesday.

The developer has estimated that construction would take five years, create 340 jobs and bring in $2.5 million in taxes.

But Alec McCleave, who lives nearby, is opposed to the project, no matter what the height.

"My concern is this is just the thin edge, so to speak," McCleave said. "There’s going to be more and more highrise development in this area and I’m not too excited about this.

"This is a nice, residential community and suddenly it’s being overrun with apartment buildings. . . . It’s just compounding a density problem. I think this area’s going to end up like Vancouver the way things are going right now. Residents should stand up and say, ‘No, we don’t want the development.’ "

The empty lot, which neighbours two schools, would make an ideal spot for a park, he said.

"They’d get some public recognition and the residents would be happy," McCleave said.

"It’s time for Sobeys to step forward. They’ve got a community responsibility."

( clambie@herald.ca)

‘It’s in an area that the highest building is seven (storeys). Across the street there are sixes and sevens and fives. To put an 11-storey building there sort of changes the whole area.’

Halifax North End councillor

Jerry Blumenthal

fenwick16

Jul 29, 2010, 11:48 AM

Quite unbeliveable really...

Condo tower may get shorter
City, developer in talks; neighbours upset with north-end proposal
By CHRIS LAMBIE Business Editor
Thu, Jul 29 - 4:53 AM
.
.
.
But Alec McCleave, who lives nearby, is opposed to the project, no matter what the height.

"My concern is this is just the thin edge, so to speak," McCleave said. "There’s going to be more and more highrise development in this area and I’m not too excited about this.

"This is a nice, residential community and suddenly it’s being overrun with apartment buildings. . . . It’s just compounding a density problem. I think this area’s going to end up like Vancouver the way things are going right now. Residents should stand up and say, ‘No, we don’t want the development.’ "

The empty lot, which neighbours two schools, would make an ideal spot for a park, he said.
.
.
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So what is this person's opinion on where development should go - the suburbs, Ontario, Alberta ... ? He has his home so others should now move elsewhere. Again, as many have stated previously - he knew that he was living it a city, does he favour economic stagnation or increased property taxes by servicing ever expanding suburbs?

I understand that Alex McCleave isn't ready to accept the changing of his neighbourhood. But if Halifax continues to grow then this will happen more and more.