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waterloowarrior
May 12, 2009, 4:36 AM
http://www.360lofts.ca/site/images/logo.jpg (http://www.360lofts.ca/site/)
http://www.360lofts.ca/
http://360lofts.blogspot.com/


http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Street-final.jpg

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Facade-final.jpg

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/EntranceB-Final.jpg

New condo in Byward Market: High design without the height
http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/designingottawa/archive/2009/05/11/new-condo-in-byward-market-high-design-without-the-height.aspx
By MARIACOOK 05-11-2009 COMMENTS(0) DESIGNING OTTAWA

Filed under: Byward Market, condos
Many of the densest cities in the world are made up of four-to-seven-storey buildings; central London and Paris for example.

Ottawa tends to jump from low-scale to high-rise without much in-between. Recently, a number of projects have tried mid-rise forms but, like LeBreton Flats, use the lower buildings to mask taller sections or even towers.

The Byward Market, as one of the most desirable urban areas to live, is being ringed by tall towers on Rideau and Cumberland streets, with bulkier, lower blocks making inroads on streets like York and Clarence.

A condo apartment building planned for Cumberland Street, between George and York, explores how to fit a large number of small units, some with two storeys, and parking all into a six-level building.

The developer, who has architectural training, initiated the design with architect Jim Colizza and is now working with architect Toon Dreessen to develop the project.

Ingenuity has been applied to the construction, detailing and organization of the building to fit 33 units onto a small site.

"We're trying to do high design but using off-the-shelf utilitarian materials and hardware to create interesting, thought-provoking space that will contribute to the urban landscape," says Dreessen.

The building, named 360Lofts, uses wood frame construction to achieve a more affordable building.

A three-storey glulam column supports a cantilever that projects from the building face. The robust exterior cladding is a combination of brick, stone, steel and fibre-cement board.

Features include roof terrace and sliding wall panels between bedroom and living room.

It is a durable palette which, going by the concept drawings, has been composed in a sophisticated, contemporary way.

It is refreshing to encounter a condo project which is not marketed as "luxury."

The building is clearly aimed at those who want to live downtown and don't wish to spend a great deal of money; single people and couples able to live in 400 to 600 square feet.

Construction is set to start next spring for fall 2010 occupancy.


Images courtesy of Surface Developments and Dreessen Architect

pL2V9eZDS2I

cityguy
May 12, 2009, 11:50 AM
nice infill.

AuxTown
May 12, 2009, 1:22 PM
There are a number of places with room for development along Cumberland so hopefully this won't be the last. Nice design, it's very Habitatesque IMO.

rocketphish
May 12, 2009, 1:43 PM
Here's the site:

(A bit sandwiched-in between substantially taller developments, if you ask me)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2454/3665384980_f172f1f141_o_d.jpg

YOWetal
May 12, 2009, 1:50 PM
Here's the site:

(A bit sandwiched-in between substantially taller developments, if you ask me)

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/0/5/5/3/3/1/webimg/264807892_o.jpg

I believe a proposal for a taller tower was rejected for this site, I thought it was planned to go all the way to the corner (SW of York and Cumberland) so I wonder if they will try again with a tower just on the corner lot.

Coldrsx
May 12, 2009, 1:53 PM
top looks wicked but the street level is shameful

AuxTown
May 12, 2009, 1:58 PM
Are all those women going to be living there? If so, count me in!

Jamaican-Phoenix
May 12, 2009, 11:50 PM
Are all those women going to be living there? If so, count me in!

I was thinking the same thing. :P

p_xavier
May 13, 2009, 12:24 AM
Here's the site:

(A bit sandwiched-in between substantially taller developments, if you ask me)

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/0/5/5/3/3/1/webimg/264807892_o.jpg

Wow, I never noticed how much parking spaces there was. OMG, the high buildings! Idiots.

Zach6668
May 13, 2009, 2:28 AM
I live in the East Market, and got some sort of paper thing with an outline of this proposal like 3 months ago. I meant to scan it and post it, but totally forgot, lol.

I like it.

How long until they "infill" the Salvation Army or the Options Housing?

On a somewhat related note, how long until that disgusting Union Du Canada building gets the dynamite? The only good thing about that place is the Shawarma place at street level.

waterloowarrior
May 13, 2009, 3:40 AM
from Maria Cook's blog
http://communities.canada.com/ottawacitizen/blogs/designingottawa/archive/2009/05/13/a-fiery-defence-of-wood-frame-construction.aspx

A fiery defence of wood-frame construction

By MARIACOOK 05-12-2009 COMMENTS(0) DESIGNING OTTAWA

Filed under: condos, wood-frame construction, Byward Market
At least since the Great Fire of London of 1666, spread from the baker's shop in Pudding Lane to leave 100,000 people homeless, wooden construction has been viewed with skepticism for urban buildings.

The lively debate in the previous post relating to the construction of proposed condos in the Byward Market shows these concerns remain alive.

Ottawa Architect Toon Dreessen explains why wood is the right choice for the 360 Lofts project.

"I love to build in wood. When it's appropriate, makes sense, and has the support of both the client and regulatory body (in this case the city issuing a building permit) it can be the right choice. I feel like I am doing something positive for the environment while creating a better building. (www.planetfriendlycanada.com)

"All the garbage produced on the site can be recycled. During the building's lifespan it can be modified or adapted with relative ease. At the end of its life-cycle, 100 per cent of the wood can be recycled.

"Wood is easy to work with. All you need is a saw and hammer. It is cost-effective and easily transported, saving on gas. Wood is a renewable resource, locally sourced, i.e. made in Canada.

"In choosing to work with a wood structure, I am supporting Canadian industry; both the resource-based economy our nation is founded upon, and the technological advances we've made in this country through organizations like the Canada Wood Council (www.cwc.ca) and the National Research Council.

"Why is wood a good choice for this location and project? It's a tight urban location. There simply isn't a place to put a big tower crane and move the formwork needed for a concrete building. This building can be erected with smaller pieces of equipment using less power, creating a lighter global footprint and less intrusion on nearby buildings.

"It also makes sense for the budget of this project; to build in concrete would cost hundreds of thousands of dollar more and this cost would be passed on to the buyers. At some point the project doesn't make financial sense, resulting in either no building at all (loss of jobs and urban housing options) or a bigger/taller building, which increases the urban canyon effect and destroys the pedestrian-oriented urban fabric.

"Under the building code (both Ontario and national) buildings for residential use can be built out of wood up to four storeys (plus an internal mezzanine loft) provided they are sprinklered. This means that a wood structure is protected from burning at least as long as a concrete or steel structure.

"There is no more danger in a wood building from electrical fires than there is in any other building. When fires start in a condo unit, it's usually things like kitchen cabinets catching fire from an accident on the stove, or candles setting fire to papers on a table. Fire alarms and sprinklers provide building owners with advance notice and life protection.

"In British Columbia, the building code changed recently to permit up to six storeys in wood. At the Ontario Association of Architects conference last week, we learned that eight-storey wood structures are built in Sweden and in the United Kingdom they are going as high as nine storeys."

m0nkyman
May 13, 2009, 6:20 AM
top looks wicked but the street level is shameful

This city has no shame when it comes to bad street level interaction.

jcollins
May 13, 2009, 2:09 PM
Based on the renderings it looks like that one little house on the corner stays. Too bad.

Kitchissippi
May 13, 2009, 2:29 PM
How long until they "infill" the Salvation Army or the Options Housing?

Don't hold your breath. Those were part of the ByWard Market area long before the trendy condos went up. If you think that view from the East Market is going to change, dream on....

YOWetal
May 13, 2009, 2:38 PM
[QUOTE=Zach6668;4246647]
I like it.

How long until they "infill" the Salvation Army or the Options Housing?
QUOTE]

Realistically never. They wouldnt be allowed in any other neighbourhood so they will never be able to move.

m0nkyman
May 13, 2009, 3:37 PM
Based on the renderings it looks like that one little house on the corner stays. Too bad.

Those two little houses on the corner are gorgeous little stone built heritage properties, and I would be supremely pissed if they got torn down to put up a crappy wanna-be-modern wood frame mid-rise.:hell:

jcollins
May 13, 2009, 6:07 PM
Those two little houses on the corner are gorgeous little stone built heritage properties, and I would be supremely pissed if they got torn down to put up a crappy wanna-be-modern wood frame mid-rise.:hell:

Does anyone have a picture of these? Im having trouble picturing them

YOWetal
May 13, 2009, 6:26 PM
Those two little houses on the corner are gorgeous little stone built heritage properties, and I would be supremely pissed if they got torn down to put up a crappy wanna-be-modern wood frame mid-rise.:hell:

You're kidding right?

kwoldtimer
May 13, 2009, 9:16 PM
You're kidding right?

Someone told me once that the duplex house on the corner is one of the older remaining residences in the Market area. Not sure how much of its heritage value has been retained, however.

waterloowarrior
May 13, 2009, 9:58 PM
from the general thread a while back
from Ottawa Urbain (http://www.ottawaurbain.ca/?p=web&menu=blogitem&blog_id=109)

The lot in front of the East Market Village Condos at the corner of Cumberland and York where 3 two-story building are currently erected will eventually be destroyed to make some room for a new project. As the notice says, 28 new condo units will be built in a four-storey building.

The public hearing has been held on November 5th. Has anyone been there and know if the it has been accepted?

http://www.ottawaurbain.ca/include/interplex/ottawaurbain/images/uploaded/1226869580_23738.jpg
http://www.ottawaurbain.ca/include/interplex/ottawaurbain/images/uploaded/1226869621_10909_thumb.jpg

Mille Sabords
May 14, 2009, 1:43 AM
Like many others have said, great looking building, playful architecture and imaginative use of a tiny site. It will be close to York Plaza, so there may not be much of a view assuming there are even windows in the back wall. And the street level interaction leaves much to be desired. I always thought East Market way underperformed in this department too; they should have put in more retail all along Cumberland - it's certainly close enough to the action to warrant more than a billiards room and a couple of stationary bikes. Same goes for this 360 project.

highdensitysprawl
May 14, 2009, 1:58 AM
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I'm sorry, but when I'm about to make the biggest purchase in my life, a 40 odd second youtube video with nary a mention of one single feature of the interior of the unit isn't going to cut it for me. Sure there are lots of places to get pissed nearby, trendy restaurants at your doorstep but the units could be made of MDF for all the information in that video link.

Style over substance in my books.

Despite all that negativity, if the girl on the right is thrown into the equation, I may not think so rationally.

waterloowarrior
May 14, 2009, 2:06 AM
I'm sorry, but when I'm about to make the biggest purchase in my life, a 40 odd second youtube video with nary a mention of one single feature of the interior of the unit isn't going to cut it for me. Sure there are lots of places to get pissed nearby, trendy restaurants at your doorstep but the units could be made of MDF for all the information in that video link.

Style over substance in my books.

Despite all that negativity, if the girl on the right is thrown into the equation, I may not think so rationally.

haha... when I was looking at SSP in the morning I thought I had accidently posted the wrong youtube video the night before, until I saw the render at the end.

12 hot galleries
27 great restuarants
36 new outfits
89 unique drinks
1 new friend
All this adds up to 360 [actually it only adds up to 164 :) ]

kwoldtimer
May 15, 2009, 12:31 AM
haha... when I was looking at SSP in the morning I thought I had accidently posted the wrong youtube video the night before, until I saw the render at the end.

12 hot galleries
27 great restuarants
36 new outfits
89 unique drinks
1 new friend
All this adds up to 360 [actually it only adds up to 164 :) ]

Perhaps the 360 is for the number of square feet in each unit :D Actually, I suspect that this project will sell well given the proximity to the Market.

YOWetal
May 15, 2009, 1:12 PM
Like many others have said, great looking building, playful architecture and imaginative use of a tiny site. It will be close to York Plaza, so there may not be much of a view assuming there are even windows in the back wall. And the street level interaction leaves much to be desired. I always thought East Market way underperformed in this department too; they should have put in more retail all along Cumberland - it's certainly close enough to the action to warrant more than a billiards room and a couple of stationary bikes. Same goes for this 360 project.

Easy to say but not a big demand for retail across from the shelter in a quieter corner of the market. The retail units they have aren't exactly high rent, and the last retail condo that was put up for sale took 8 months to sell.

Mille Sabords
May 15, 2009, 1:33 PM
Easy to say but not a big demand for retail across from the shelter in a quieter corner of the market. The retail units they have aren't exactly high rent, and the last retail condo that was put up for sale took 8 months to sell.

I see that comment as reflective of the "junior" state of our city when it comes to mixed use buildings. Urban Capital has learned, Domicile less so, that you have to actively and aggressively "sell" your retail space as much as your condos. This is the Byward Market, and the building itself will be something of a head-turner, so I don't buy the "hard to sell" brush-off.

Urban Capital is much more diligent now about personally approaching retailers (big ones, like Shoppers) and getting them to commit to retail space. You can't just build a storefront, put a For Lease sign on it and hope for the best. Domicile appears to still do this (although in their case, they severely restrict the types of stores they accept in their buildings). I mean, in the ByWard Market, you can practically go knock on doors to all the little independent boutiques and offer them space in this funky new building.

At the very least, you can design a ground floor unit to look like a store and sell it as a "live-work" unit, and let time work its magic. Eventually, it becomes a store.

Ryersonian
May 15, 2009, 5:42 PM
I see that comment as reflective of the "junior" state of our city when it comes to mixed use buildings. Urban Capital has learned, Domicile less so, that you have to actively and aggressively "sell" your retail space as much as your condos. This is the Byward Market, and the building itself will be something of a head-turner, so I don't buy the "hard to sell" brush-off.

Urban Capital is much more diligent now about personally approaching retailers (big ones, like Shoppers) and getting them to commit to retail space. You can't just build a storefront, put a For Lease sign on it and hope for the best. Domicile appears to still do this (although in their case, they severely restrict the types of stores they accept in their buildings). I mean, in the ByWard Market, you can practically go knock on doors to all the little independent boutiques and offer them space in this funky new building.

At the very least, you can design a ground floor unit to look like a store and sell it as a "live-work" unit, and let time work its magic. Eventually, it becomes a store.

Do we have a suitable live/work zone available in Ottawa? You'd have to hope so after just pulling all our by-laws together, but I'm not sure; anybody?

Ryersonian
May 15, 2009, 5:45 PM
Do we have a suitable live/work zone available in Ottawa? You'd have to hope so after just pulling all our by-laws together, but I'm not sure; anybody?

Ah, answered my own question:

http://www.ottawa.ca/residents/bylaw/a_z/zoning/parts/pt_05/index_en-08.html

Zach6668
Jun 7, 2009, 1:05 AM
I signed up for the site a while ago, and got an email today telling me the website as launched. I think you need to sign up, because they sent me my username and password, I don't know if it's unique to me or what.

http://360lofts.com

All the prices and floor plans are up.

I don't know how I feel about them. Some are nice, but I don't like the lack of balconies. The 2 story units are kinda cool, but I'd rather have room for an office or something that overhangs my living area, rather than just the hallway to the terrace.

waterloowarrior
Jun 7, 2009, 1:16 AM
^ http://www.360lofts.ca

Zach6668
Jun 7, 2009, 1:52 AM
Bah, my bad. Should have just copied and pasted, but I was lazy. :)

YOWetal
Jun 8, 2009, 2:18 PM
I signed up for the site a while ago, and got an email today telling me the website as launched. I think you need to sign up, because they sent me my username and password, I don't know if it's unique to me or what.

http://360lofts.com

All the prices and floor plans are up.

I don't know how I feel about them. Some are nice, but I don't like the lack of balconies. The 2 story units are kinda cool, but I'd rather have room for an office or something that overhangs my living area, rather than just the hallway to the terrace.

Seem overpriced to me. They are priced above similar sized units on the lower floors in East Market.

So much for "cheaper" wood construction. Too bad, as I was thinking about buying one as an investment.

waterloowarrior
Jun 8, 2009, 10:15 PM
haha... when I was looking at SSP in the morning I thought I had accidently posted the wrong youtube video the night before, until I saw the render at the end.

12 hot galleries
27 great restuarants
36 new outfits
89 unique drinks
1 new friend
All this adds up to 360 [actually it only adds up to 164 :) ]

here's the newest equation from the pre-sale site... looks like they still have to work on the math ;)

http://wwuploads.googlepages.com/360maths.jpg

It all adds up to... 307

waterloowarrior
Jun 8, 2009, 10:24 PM
Average price PSF is about $465 (excluding parking)

kwoldtimer
Jun 8, 2009, 10:57 PM
:previous: Brutal! I guess the good news is that the total price doesn't look too bad if you are willing to live in a small enough space. First time buyers will likely still bite.

waterloowarrior
Jun 9, 2009, 12:49 AM
here's some info...
The 360Lofts website is now live!
Come and check out the hottest condo development to hit the city. Your registration provides you with immediate and exclusive access to the website before it goes live to the public on Saturday June 13th. You also have the ability to purchase a unit before they go on sale to the general public. To access the website use the following login and password:

LOGIN: 360lofts
PASSWORD: pre2009

www.360lofts.ca

Want to buy a unit?
Get one before they're gone! Your registration gives your the exclusive opportunity to purchase a unit before they go on sale to the general public. Units may be purchased by appointment only starting Saturday June 13th. Contact the sales centre to book an appointment and to ensure you're first in line to make a selection of one of our exciting boutique condos.

To make an appointment please call 613.222.9800

Zach6668
Jun 9, 2009, 1:46 AM
I'm so underwhelmed by the floorplans.

I want a 2-bedroom, but I want it for less than the market price these days (good luck, I know).

I need to make more money, I think that's the problem. Or just not waste so much. That too.

Mille Sabords
Jun 9, 2009, 2:34 AM
I'm so underwhelmed by the floorplans.

I want a 2-bedroom, but I want it for less than the market price these days (good luck, I know).

I need to make more money, I think that's the problem. Or just not waste so much. That too.

Well, the good thing about having small living quarters is that you're forced not to accumulate a lot of shit. Myself, every time I've moved, I've easily filled 5-6 garbage bags of stuff that became useless over time.

This aside, the real surprise for me is the two-storey lofts. Why not have some of the second level as a bedroom or a den? Why is it all open like that? There's a waste.

YOWetal
Jun 9, 2009, 5:40 PM
Average price PSF is about $465 (excluding parking)

Wow, granted some of those units have large terraces but some also have small balconies facing a shelter or the side of a building. Again so much for wood contstruction being cheaper. I don't think they will do that well in this market at those prices, but we'll see.

waterloowarrior
Jun 16, 2009, 1:31 AM
360Lofts Record Breaking Weekend - 68% SOLD OUT!

Thanks to you this opening weekend was the fastest and most successful sales launch in the city of Ottawa! Congratulations to everyone who purchased a unit and helped us reach a sales mark of 68% in only 48hrs. A terrific start to what will be the most exciting condo this city has seen!

Mille Sabords
Jun 16, 2009, 1:59 AM
71% according to the price list on their website... no surprises there. This is a hot little building with tons of curb appeal and located at the heart of everything.

rocketphish
Jun 20, 2009, 2:41 PM
Fast start
Small urban condo hits young target market, selling 70 per cent of building

By Paula McCooey, The Ottawa Citizen, June 20, 2009


The launch of a slick, new condo development bucked the trend of lagging sales last weekend when almost 70 per cent of the 36 one and two-storey apartments sold within a couple of days.

The 360Lofts condo building, to be built at 383 Cumberland St., is a sophisticated, European style low-rise that will sit on the edge of the ByWard Market.

With a city teeming with low and highrise condos, this mid-rise, six-storey is a welcomed addition for first time buyers looking for an affordable, sleek downtown space. The majority of condos will have one bedroom with prices starting around $200,000.

"We really wanted to look after people in the market looking to buy their first home, and they really want to live in a dense urban setting, but can’t afford to pay $250,00 or $300,000 for a one bedroom," says Jakub Ulak, 33, who is both the developer and one of the designers working on the project. "We wanted to create a product that (buyers) would be very happy and proud to live in, but at the same time they could afford."

Daniel Benatuil, a market analyst for CMHC, says it makes sense the 360Lofts were such a hit considering young, first-time home buyers are expected to help revive the condo apartment market across the country.

"This is not surprising," says Benatuil. "It is consistent with the current trend. Especially as the mortgage rates remain low."

However, overall, he says condo apartment sales in Ottawa remain "quite weak" compared to previous months.

He says the units "not sold" is an indication of this.

"The units unsold, condo apartments in Ottawa, the average is about 120 that are kept in inventory," says Benatuil. "Right now the inventory is about 150 units."

Eric Baets, 34, and his fiance Amanda Pinch, 20, were attracted to the development’s boutique-loft models and unique exterior design - with its timber beam that will support the soaring two-storey entrance.

The couple, downsizing from a five-bedroom home near Prince of Wales Drive, were attracted by the building’s smaller scale and urban vibe.

"It’s a pretty refreshing design, at least from the outside," says Baets, who purchased one of the two-bedroom penthouse suites with a large terrace deck. "It was definitely different than some of the other ... condos I looked at."

The condo fees also fit their budget.

Priced at 29 cents per square foot, they are considerably less than other projects around the city because the development is a simple model, without expensive features such as a pool or gym, that usually send fees up to $400, $500 and higher.

Condo fees for a 404 square-foot studio will be $117 per month. Condo fees for Baets’ 972-square-foot loft, the largest in the building, will be about $280.

"It is very simple living, it’s a small condo. There’s no gym, there’s no pool," says Baets. "There’s a gym across the street from me, so I don’t need extras, which bring the condo costs down really low and makes it affordable."

While the developers kept such services to a minimum, they did not scrimp on quality.

Each suite has dozens of high-end features, including stainless steel, Energy Star rated appliances, hardwood floors, granite countertops and custom designed Eurostyle kitchen cabinetry.

The chic building also features a communal landscaped roof garden, a gated courtyard entry with a security door and surveillance cameras.

Ulak says it was important for his team, which includes architects Jim Colizza and Toon Dreessen, to create a building that would respond to the sophisticated demands of its 25-to 35 year old-target market and be a responsible addition to the city. Ulak and his team wanted an building to blend into the neighbourhood and not be another tall condo building.

"We wanted to create something that would inspire people, get them excited and feel proud about living this kind of a building," says Ulak, who aimed to create efficient condo designs, with little or no wasted space in areas such as long, wide hallways. "We wanted to do something that the city hasn’t seen before, trying to get people a little it excited about architecture. But at the same time, create a building that would respond in a responsible fashion to its surrounding context."

There are 13 units left. The lofts are expected to be ready by Fall 2010.

Visit 360Lofts.ca or call 613-222-9800. 360 or Ulak at 613-255-5507.

bikegypsy
Jul 2, 2009, 5:22 AM
I'm not surprised about the popularity of this project.
It's the sexiest thing of its kind, is right for the neighborhood and the neighborhood is right for it. I think that similar project will pop up and Cumberland will become the trendiest street in Ottawa.

kwoldtimer
Jul 2, 2009, 5:05 PM
:previous: More such projects would seem probable, given the strong reception this one has received. A trendy Cumberland seems a big stretch, however, given its built state between Rideau and York. The Market East development is particularly brutal at street level and, for all its interesting points, the 360 doesn't contribute much in terms of street interaction. Time will tell, but I suspect most of the trendiness (if such actually exists in Ottawa, but that is another discussion :) ) will remain to the west of Cumberland. I have been wondering at what point things might "crystalize" on Rideau, Cumberland, etc -- recent years have seen lots of residential go up and I am hoping that better retail/commercial development will follow, eventually.

bikegypsy
Jul 3, 2009, 2:14 AM
:(if such actually exists in Ottawa, but that is another discussion :) )

Funny... there's that good old self bashing attitude I sometimes forget about (i temporarely live in Asia). What's up with that? Do you go out much? I mean, at night, in a dance club?

Mille Sabords
Jul 5, 2009, 5:33 PM
Funny... there's that good old self bashing attitude I sometimes forget about (i temporarely live in Asia). What's up with that? Do you go out much? I mean, at night, in a dance club?

Yeah, I agree with you bikegypsy. A funny personal story that has a strange link to this project: the developer is "Surface Developments". When I first started dating my wife there was an after hours club around the street called Surface. She's from Montreal and had never been to an after-hours bar in her life before I introduced her to Surface. I still laugh at my Montrealer wife when I say that she needed to come to Ottawa to experience true night life. And sure enough, that 360 Lofts building has a DJ booth in the rooftop. Don't know if it's a coincidence, but a neat one if it is.

rocketphish
Jul 5, 2009, 7:54 PM
93% Sold. In fact there are only 3 units left, all studios, and probably not coincidentally, the 3 smallest units in the building. And can you blame them... Who in their right mind would pay $187,900/$188,900/$189,900 for a 393 sq.ft. bachelor pad overlooking Cumberland St.? Ouch!

Davis137
Jul 6, 2009, 3:25 PM
93% Sold. In fact there are only 3 units left, all studios, and probably not coincidentally, the 3 smallest units in the building. And can you blame them... Who in their right mind would pay $187,900/$188,900/$189,900 for a 393 sq.ft. bachelor pad overlooking Cumberland St.? Ouch!

Someone from Toronto?

sky.high
Jul 6, 2009, 11:21 PM
Hey guys!
I'm new to this.. well, kinda.. been reading posts here and there, and finally decided to register today ;)

At first when I found out about the 360 lofts, I was furious! Because I just found out recently. Apparently, they are all sold... well, there are 3 "studios" left :rolleyes:

I was thinking at first, oh wow, very modern, very different... oh wait, is that Cumberland? Salvation Army?? Noisy homeless people/junkies??? NEVER MIND!

What the heck were they thinking? That is such a BAD location!!! Beside the fact that it is located right beside Salvation Army, windows facing 134 York condos, it is also right across from East Market building (mind you, I love the E.M's condos on the George side, but the one on Cumberland and York, not so much...)

You guys ever passed by that E.M's building on Cumberland??? Every time I go down to the little convenience store on York and pass by the condos on Cumberland, it smells like sewage!!! And old stinky garbage!!! + they will have no view whatsoever!

IMO, they should have taken down the dirty Mr.Mozarella Pizza Place and built it on that block! Between York and Clarence...
Hopefully they will do something similar on that block, as well as the opposite side from there...

I don't understand what were those people thinking when buying a condo at 360 lofts??? Am I the only one who thinks they got ripped off???

kwoldtimer
Jul 6, 2009, 11:38 PM
I don't understand what were those people thinking when buying a condo at 360 lofts??? Am I the only one who thinks they got ripped off???

I doubt that you are alone, but the folks who snapped these condos up will not feel ripped off as they have got exactly what they wanted - an affordable address in the Market (more or less) and easy access to the amenities of the neighbourhood. It would be interesting to know whether most of the units will be owner occupied or rented out.

sky.high
Jul 6, 2009, 11:49 PM
I doubt that you are alone, but the folks who snapped these condos up will not feel ripped off as they have got exactly what they wanted - an affordable address in the Market (more or less) and easy access to the amenities of the neighbourhood. It would be interesting to know whether most of the units will be owner occupied or rented out.

I was thinking of getting one in terms of investment... But considering they are overpriced as they already are, and then trying to make some profit too, would mean higher rent, right? I can't imagine anyone in their right mind paying that much for a shoe box! Then again, we do live in Ottawa... and some of these people ARE desperate to own in the market, even if it means they will be right next to a homeless shelter :(

waterloowarrior
Jul 7, 2009, 12:09 AM
^ people pay much more across the street at 160 George.

sky.high
Jul 7, 2009, 12:32 AM
^ people pay much more across the street at 160 George.

At least it's a nicer building and some of those condos actually have "views"

rodionx
Jul 7, 2009, 2:28 AM
Hey guys!
I was thinking at first, oh wow, very modern, very different... oh wait, is that Cumberland? Salvation Army?? Noisy homeless people/junkies??? NEVER MIND!

Way back in 1996 (my first sojourn in Ottawa), I actually rented a room in a house a few doors down from Shepherds of Good Hope. There was a steady stream of winos and miscellaneous crazy people shuffling by, as well as a trio of hookers stationed permanently at the corner of Murray and Cumberland. I saw some questionable activity, let me tell ya. It was still a decent neighbourhood, though. There's a Loblaws and lots of transit nearby, and the Market was as much fun then as it is now.

The funny thing is, I'd say that that particular section is much worse now. There are far more tweakers and junkies around Cumberland than there were then, and they are more in your face. The other big difference is that the empty and derelict buildings are now condos or upscale eateries. It's surreal. It just goes to show what proximity to a lively commercial area will get you.

Mille Sabords
Jul 7, 2009, 2:28 AM
That 360 Loft building was made possible by East Market and its population of 1000 or so people who dwarf the resident population of the SallyAnn shelter. As for living next door to them... well consiering you're in the market, that's your tradeoff. To me, 360 is a funky and creative building with a welcome architectural flair and priced just right even for an investment.

Zach6668
Jul 7, 2009, 6:33 AM
I live in the EM right now, and have no problem whatsoever with the Shelter. It sucks that it's there, from an aesthetic perspective, but that's about it.

There's a bunch of guys chilling outside most of the time, smoking or whatever it is they do, but 100% of the time, there's a security guard with them. There's never a problem. They know not to do anything that'll get them in trouble, for the most part.

The other big thing, with the market in general, is the fact that there's a heavy police presence here. There's always cars sitting in the area, and always guys on foot. Keeps it all under control.

And I'm the kinda guy who'll go walk and get food at 4 in the morning, without a worry for my own safety.

Mille Sabords
Jul 7, 2009, 12:19 PM
To be honest, maybe because I've lived here for so long I barely even notice the fact that there are lots of "bums" around anymore. They are part of my world. It does make a difference if I'm walking by myself in how they'll ask for change. If my wife and kids are with me, they are very polite, always say something nice to the kids, and sure enough I'm likelier to fork over a buck that way (and they know this). Sure, they stink and they're unsightly, but I can nod back at the respect they give my wife and kids with a loonie. We're in the market on foot with the kids all the time and they're used to the sights as well. The ones who are too drunk or too high are also usually incapable of much besides drifting. On a few rare occasions there were altercations between street people and cop cars got there pretty quickly.

It doesn't bother me to be in a place where you will see people who are down on their luck. It bothers me more that our society is incapable of finding a real way out for them. All cases are different, of course, and in some cases the problems are self made. In many other cases, like mental illness, bi-polar disorders, schizophrenia, and addictions of all types, there is more that can be done - not because they disturb people from their consumer trance on the street, but more because at some point those who are too far gone to properly take care of themselves need better protection and to be given the means to get ahold of themselves outside of the jungle that is the street (when the rest of us aren't looking).

Having young kids, I can say one thing, I would rather expose them to the world as it is from their infancy, and be the one to answer their questions about it, than hide them away somewhere and pretend the world doesn't exist, until they reach their teens and go discover by themselves with only superficial knowledge or discussion of any of it. Walking around, I can see every day where that has led many suburban kids.

bikegypsy
Jul 7, 2009, 1:21 PM
93% Sold. In fact there are only 3 units left, all studios, and probably not coincidentally, the 3 smallest units in the building. And can you blame them... Who in their right mind would pay $187,900/$188,900/$189,900 for a 393 sq.ft. bachelor pad overlooking Cumberland St.? Ouch!

People who care about the brand.
Chocolate is chocolate right? Wrong. There are people gladly putting down 7 bucks for a taste of Valrhona, 2-3 grand for a pair of Manolo Blahnik, or 10 on a first class seat to wherever. I've worked in swanky restaurants around town and my experience as shown me people who couldn't care less about the amount. The father of a friend of mine is a billionaire. He made his money in realestate in Montreal, Ottawa and Miami. They have a luxury condo on Sherbrook street, a 3000 sq foot loft on the Rideau river and a beach front villa in Florida. My friend drives a Maserati and jets for a weekend a the beach regularly. He doesn't care.

Forget about the price being too high for what you get. This is a different mindset. It's all about branding. 360 marketed their product with absolute perfection. Not everyone wants to be safe and conservative. Afterall, there are many types of people with different wants and needs... and different wallets. I personally cringe at the idea of living in a single family home in suburbia. Been there... never again!
This developper targeted a market which is extremelly underserved in Ottawa. People moving in 360 don't care about the view (or the lack of) or the drunks... they just want to be in 360. My guess is these three units will go to twenty somethings with rich papas.

Mille Sabords
Jul 7, 2009, 2:21 PM
People who care about the brand.
Chocolate is chocolate right? Wrong. There are people gladly putting down 7 bucks for a taste of Valrhona, 2-3 grand for a pair of Manolo Blahnik, or 10 on a first class seat to wherever. I've worked in swanky restaurants around town and my experience as shown me people who couldn't care less about the amount. The father of a friend of mine is a billionaire. He made his money in realestate in Montreal, Ottawa and Miami. They have a luxury condo on Sherbrook street, a 3000 sq foot loft on the Rideau river and a beach front villa in Florida. My friend drives a Maserati and jets for a weekend a the beach regularly. He doesn't care.

Forget about the price being too high for what you get. This is a different mindset. It's all about branding. 360 marketed their product with absolute perfection. Not everyone wants to be safe and conservative. Afterall, there are many types of people with different wants and needs... and different wallets. I personally cringe at the idea of living in a single family home in suburbia. Been there... never again!
This developper targeted a market which is extremelly underserved in Ottawa. People moving in 360 don't care about the view (or the lack of) or the drunks... they just want to be in 360. My guess is these three units will go to twenty somethings with rich papas.

Said to perfection. Bang on.

rocketphish
Jul 7, 2009, 2:54 PM
I don't dispute that there are plenty of people with money to burn, and they are more than willing to buy expensive toys and residences. But these people are also likely to buy something lavish, something worthy of spending all that money on. They will probably buy something large, fancy, and appropriate to their lifestyle and standing in society. They will probably buy at 90 George or 700 Sussex.

I just doubt that someone with loads of money is going to buy a 393 sq.ft. unit on Cumberland St. My objection is the $483/sq.ft. price tag. For that price per sq.ft. I expect luxury.


For example, several of the smaller units available right now in 700 Sussex are a better bargain per sq.ft.:

1000 sq.ft. for $469,000 = $469/sq.ft.
1190 sq.ft for $559,000 = $470/sq.ft.


Yes, I know... these are substantially larger and pricier units than the 393 sq.ft. units in 360Lofts. I'm just saying that if you've got money, there is better quality and value to be had in the Market area.


On the other hand, if it's a smallish pad you're looking for, here's what's available in East Market right now:

532 sq.ft. for $209,000 = $393/sq.ft.
592 sq.ft. for $224,000 = $378/sq.ft.
601 sq.ft. for $249,900 = $415/sq.ft.

Again, better value, and located in practically the same location.


Even with good brand marketing, I'll bet those smallest 360Lofts units will be a hard sell at their current prices.

rodionx
Jul 8, 2009, 4:45 AM
To be honest, maybe because I've lived here for so long I barely even notice the fact that there are lots of "bums" around anymore. They are part of my world. It does make a difference if I'm walking by myself in how they'll ask for change. If my wife and kids are with me, they are very polite, always say something nice to the kids, and sure enough I'm likelier to fork over a buck that way (and they know this).

Yes, I know what you mean. I'm raising kids on the edge of Chinatown, and I've noticed that street people are quite solicitous of children. They almost never directly ask for money when I'm out with the kids. I'm not even sure they do it because they expect money - it just seems to be some kind of rule they follow.

Anyway, I find it intriguing that the social factors that make potential buyers think twice about Vanier, Hintonburg, or my very own Chinatown, don't seem to apply to the Market. Maybe it is just marketing, but the achievement of critical mass has to be a factor as well. Your point about the condo dwellers in East Market vastly outnumbering the homeless shelter residents is well taken. In 1996, they just didn't have these huge condos around Cumberland.

kwoldtimer
Jul 8, 2009, 10:55 PM
Some of these comments remind me of when I moved to Ottawa (long before 1996, I hate to say). I lived just off Dalhousie and got to the point of saying hello to the hookers who strolled outside my place - I only had to draw the line when they tried to practice their profession in my backyard! Ahh, great times... :haha:

p_xavier
Jul 9, 2009, 1:29 AM
Some of these comments remind me of when I moved to Ottawa (long before 1996, I hate to say). I lived just off Dalhousie and got to the point of saying hello to the hookers who strolled outside my place - I only had to draw the line when they tried to practice their profession in my backyard! Ahh, great times... :haha:

Did you get a rebate?

Norman Bates
Jul 9, 2009, 1:39 AM
I lived just off Dalhousie and got to the point of saying hello to the hookers who strolled outside my place - I only had to draw the line when they tried to practice their profession in my backyard! Ahh, great times... :haha:That's some easement you've got there!

kwoldtimer
Jul 9, 2009, 2:17 AM
That's some easement you've got there!

Would probably have been easement by prescription if I hadn't put a stop to it ................... :jester:

rodionx
Jul 9, 2009, 4:37 AM
Heh. We used to joke about about subletting our rooms by the hour. Come to think of it, maybe those 393 square foot units are priced as income properties?

m0nkyman
Jul 9, 2009, 6:08 AM
Some of these comments remind me of when I moved to Ottawa (long before 1996, I hate to say). I lived just off Dalhousie and got to the point of saying hello to the hookers who strolled outside my place - I only had to draw the line when they tried to practice their profession in my backyard! Ahh, great times... :haha:

BAck in the eighties I lived on Dalhousie and was amazed at how crime free it was. Apparently the hookers didn't like having the cops around so they kept the petty thieves out of the area ...

YOWetal
Jul 29, 2009, 5:52 PM
I don't dispute that there are plenty of people with money to burn, and they are more than willing to buy expensive toys and residences. But these people are also likely to buy something lavish, something worthy of spending all that money on. They will probably buy something large, fancy, and appropriate to their lifestyle and standing in society. They will probably buy at 90 George or 700 Sussex.

I just doubt that someone with loads of money is going to buy a 393 sq.ft. unit on Cumberland St. My objection is the $483/sq.ft. price tag. For that price per sq.ft. I expect luxury.


For example, several of the smaller units available right now in 700 Sussex are a better bargain per sq.ft.:

1000 sq.ft. for $469,000 = $469/sq.ft.
1190 sq.ft for $559,000 = $470/sq.ft.


Yes, I know... these are substantially larger and pricier units than the 393 sq.ft. units in 360Lofts. I'm just saying that if you've got money, there is better quality and value to be had in the Market area.


On the other hand, if it's a smallish pad you're looking for, here's what's available in East Market right now:

532 sq.ft. for $209,000 = $393/sq.ft.
592 sq.ft. for $224,000 = $378/sq.ft.
601 sq.ft. for $249,900 = $415/sq.ft.

Again, better value, and located in practically the same location.


Even with good brand marketing, I'll bet those smallest 360Lofts units will be a hard sell at their current prices.

Great analysis and points out an interesting quirk in the current condo market. The presale market seems to be rebounding faster than the resale (look especially at the East Market Units that are 20% cheaper per Sq Ft with far less risk). I guess people think the market will be roaring back in a year or two. A lot of people also see the profit people who bought on the initial sales are making in bulidings completed in the past year or so. I'm not sure if this will be repeated. I cant imagine prices going up 30%, 20% or even 10% in 360 from these levels.

Mille Sabords
Jul 30, 2009, 2:37 AM
Great analysis and points out an interesting quirk in the current condo market. The presale market seems to be rebounding faster than the resale (look especially at the East Market Units that are 20% cheaper per Sq Ft with far less risk). I guess people think the market will be roaring back in a year or two. A lot of people also see the profit people who bought on the initial sales are making in bulidings completed in the past year or so. I'm not sure if this will be repeated. I cant imagine prices going up 30%, 20% or even 10% in 360 from these levels.

Well, seeing that these are small units and therefore with a relatively low sticker price, I can easily see a unit that costs $211,000 in pre-sales go for $253,000 in a couple of years. That's 20%.

ty7er
Aug 31, 2009, 5:50 AM
Is anything happening with this project? Has it stalled?

waterloowarrior
Aug 31, 2009, 12:33 PM
Is anything happening with this project? Has it stalled?

Site plan application has been posted on citys website
http://app01.ottawa.ca/postingplans/appDetails.jsf?lang=en&appId=__7PL6HE

ty7er
Aug 31, 2009, 3:54 PM
I have to be honest; I couldn't make heads or tails of that City of Ottawa link. In the Ottawa Citizen article on the first page of this thread it says the building was set to begin construction in the spring of this year for a fall 2010 occupancy. I guess that timeline is shot. Does it say in that link when construction is set to begin? I know that construction didn't begin in the spring, so it must have stalled to some extent. Can anyone explain that link for me, or does anyone know any details about when the rubber might hit the road on this one? Thanks if you are able to shed some light.

waterloowarrior
Aug 31, 2009, 5:15 PM
I have to be honest; I couldn't make heads or tails of that City of Ottawa link. In the Ottawa Citizen article on the first page of this thread it says the building was set to begin construction in the spring of this year for a fall 2010 occupancy. I guess that timeline is shot. Does it say in that link when construction is set to begin? I know that construction didn't begin in the spring, so it must have stalled to some extent. Can anyone explain that link for me, or does anyone know any details about when the rubber might hit the road on this one? Thanks if you are able to shed some light.

The site plan application deals with how the building is situated, how access is provided, and things like landscaping, garbage, drainage, parking etc.

The link shows some of the studies that the developer submits with their site plan application, including stormwater and servicing plans (water/sewer connections), the planning justification for the development, the site plan itself and several other studies for things like noise and vibration

The planning department, other city departments, and other agencies will review the proposal and provide comments which the planner will use to create a report with conditions for the development agreement. The city will require certain works to be done and fees paid as a condition of approval. The developer needs site plan approval before they can get their building permit.

The turnaround is supposed to be about 10.5 weeks for an application like this unless there are significant issues. I'm not sure what the usual timelines are between site plan approval and construction starting, but the good news is they are moving along through the approvals process.

I think the article meant that construction would start next spring (2010), since it was written in May 2009

ty7er
Sep 1, 2009, 9:22 AM
Yeah, maybe they meant next spring. But if that's true then the building would have to go from excavation to occupancy in 8 or 9 months. Is that possible? I know it's not very tall, but is that timeline even doable?

Mille Sabords
Sep 1, 2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, maybe they meant next spring. But if that's true then the building would have to go from excavation to occupancy in 8 or 9 months. Is that possible? I know it's not very tall, but is that timeline even doable?

They have a Facebook group, I wonder if you ask the developer directly what his response would be. Did you buy into it?

waterloowarrior
Sep 1, 2009, 1:05 PM
Yeah, maybe they meant next spring. But if that's true then the building would have to go from excavation to occupancy in 8 or 9 months. Is that possible? I know it's not very tall, but is that timeline even doable?

The building will be wood construction rather than concrete, maybe that will speed up the timeline?

Zach6668
Sep 1, 2009, 10:55 PM
They posted a couple signs on the old buildings on the lot too. I didn't bother to cross the street to read them, though, since we all know what's going there.

adam-machiavelli
Sep 2, 2009, 5:09 AM
They posted a couple signs on the old buildings on the lot too. I didn't bother to cross the street to read them, though, since we all know what's going there.

Please clarify.

All I know that goes on around there is that several people I know park their cars there because they work nearby.

Zach6668
Sep 2, 2009, 10:44 AM
Please clarify.

All I know that goes on around there is that several people I know park their cars there because they work nearby.
Just those standard black on white City of Ottawa signs with notices to amend zoning or whatever it is that they do.

waterloowarrior
Nov 14, 2009, 8:29 PM
It's now 93% sold out (3 units left). Site plan application is on hold, but that doesn't mean the project is on hold ... Probably something like the City provided its comments and is waiting for the developer/architect to get back to them.

Warner
Nov 21, 2009, 12:27 AM
@Mille Sabords: You do realize that by giving crackheads money it only encourages them to continue to beg in our neighbourhood right?

Warner
Nov 21, 2009, 12:28 AM
As for those who say this area is horrible....the lot they're building this on is a very popular spot for the crackheads. They have sex and do crack between the house and the crappy shed beside it. When this new building goes up it will give them one less place to fornicate and get high.

I hope this building trend continues all the way down Cumberland. Then again I live in EM Phase 2 and want my property value to increase.

Btw, some of us in phase 2 do have a decent view. Now if they'd only get rid of the Union du Canada building so I can see the fireworks.

waterloowarrior
Dec 31, 2009, 5:37 PM
Site Plan application approved

Zach6668
Jan 4, 2010, 10:51 AM
Btw, some of us in phase 2 do have a decent view. Now if they'd only get rid of the Union du Canada building so I can see the fireworks.
I hate that building so much.

CondoConnection
Apr 17, 2010, 5:03 PM
I live in 134 York right next door and I walk by this site all the time. I was surprised to see that people still live in the houses that will be demolished and that there were no signs of construction starting. I decided to call and see if things were on schedule apparently construction is starting very soon and occupancy is scheduled for January 2011. Hopefully they will construct this building quietly for us 134 York, and East Market residents!

CondoConnection
May 11, 2010, 8:32 PM
I drove by this lot this morning and there were a couple of trucks starting to dig in the parking lot.

waterloowarrior
May 26, 2010, 12:30 AM
Thank you for registering for the 360Lofts.ca waiting list.

 

Newly released units now available! 

We are very excited to announce that we will be releasing previously withheld units for sale starting May 25th 2010. 5 One bedroom units and 2 Studios will be made available only to those previously registered on our website.  Units are starting from an incredible $187,900!

360Lofts boutique-style living features an amazing roof top patio and amazing high-end finishes: Hardwood Flooring, Granite Counter Tops, and Stainless Steel Appliances!

These condo units are designed for maximum utilization of space and are affordable for the young professional wanting to live in the Byward Market.

Please call or email us right away to book your private viewing at our sales centre and to ensure your selected unit is available.

Visit us at www.360lofts.ca

Units Available:
102 One Bedroom $201,900
103 Studio $187,900
203 One Bedroom $202,900
206 One Bedroom $206,900
305 Studio $189,900
304 One Bedroom $203,900
308 One Bedroom $208,900
 
 
Dale Way
Sales Representative
Keller Williams Ottawa Realty Brokerage
Surface Developments

CondoConnection
Jun 9, 2010, 8:22 PM
I saw those come up on MLX recently. I was under the impression they had sold out except for 1 or 2 units but I guess some buyers backed out? I posted previously that it looked like they had begun digging but in fact they only dug up one parking spot and I haven't seen any trucks since. Although they have finally boarded up the doors to the homes and the tenants are gone.

waterloowarrior
Nov 6, 2010, 2:58 PM
100% sold according to their website.
demolition took place in late august apparently
http://twitpic.com/2jo7s2

kevinbottawa
Nov 8, 2010, 9:56 PM
Not sure what's going on in this pic, but it looks like progress is being made.

PS: Not sure how to make this pic appear in the post.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5158928027/

kevinbottawa
Feb 9, 2011, 8:17 PM
Here are some pics I took the other day walking by the 360 Lofts. If the pics don't come out you can click on the links below.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431272271/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431272723/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431880740/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431272271

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431272723 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431272271)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55684275@N02/5431880740

cityguy
May 9, 2011, 9:21 PM
any updates on this one?

Luker
May 10, 2011, 12:02 AM
I drove by on saturday and it was wood frammed up to the third floor, so I' guess fourth floor will be up by this time next week? :shrug:

waterloowarrior
Jul 10, 2011, 4:22 PM
love to see an update on this one from anyone who happens to pass by :)

waterloowarrior
Aug 14, 2011, 1:19 PM
must be getting close to being done...
http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-real-estate-apartments-condos-1-bedroom-Funky-360-Lofts-1-bedroom-apartment-W0QQAdIdZ277758062

waterloowarrior
Sep 8, 2011, 11:16 PM
update from http://ottawacondos.blogspot.com/2011/08/360-lofts-set-for-early-2012-occupancy.html

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CY6LfLxfkGE/Tlj3DCX9WwI/AAAAAAAAAZI/1klh3M_Uo6w/s1600/360lofts.JPG

waterloowarrior
Jul 14, 2012, 3:44 AM
from http://www.isell.com/ottawa_on-rs5097/apartments.rentals-c1712/homes.rent-c1713/ad246792.html

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/pthw2.jpg

J.OT13
Jul 14, 2012, 4:06 AM
from http://www.isell.com/ottawa_on-rs5097/apartments.rentals-c1712/homes.rent-c1713/ad246792.html

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/pthw2.jpg

Don't like the beige thing, but the rest looks alright.

J.OT13
Jul 14, 2012, 4:14 AM
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss195/mariacookottawa/Street-final.jpg

Correction, now that I went back and checked out the original render, I'm disappointed.

kevinbottawa
Jul 14, 2012, 1:38 PM
Looks like social housing.