[mr.x]

LOL, loved the babies in Gordo's speech.


Anyhow, I think i'm calling it a night. And what a good one it was after last night's upset.

[NetMapel]

Oh my, I just heard the craziest reporter asking Gordo a question in heavy accent.

[deasine]

B.C. election: Carole James concedes defeat as Campbell rides to a third term

http://a123.g.akamai.net/f/123/12465/1d/www.vancouversun.com/business/election+carole+james+concedes+defeat+campbell+rides+third+term/1589774/1589886.bin

The good news for NDP leader Carole James is that she has won her riding. That's more than Jane Sterk, the leader of The Greens, did. The bad news is the Liberals have run away with another B.C. election.

Liberal Premier Gordon Campbell won a rare third majority government Tuesday night, giving him a mandate to lead British Columbia through the recession and ensuring he’ll be premier during the 2010 Olympic Games.

Campbell’s Liberals were leading or elected in 49 ridings Tuesday night, compared to 36 for Carole James’ New Democratic Party.

Shortly before 10 p.m. Tuesday, Carole James conceded defeat to Premier Gordon Campbell and told supporters she plans to keep his feet to the fire.

"A few moments ago I talked to Premier Cambell and offered my congratulations for his victory this evening," said James, "and assured him the New Democrats will work for the betterment of this province we all call home. As we all realize, the results aren't what we hoped for, but the views of our constituents will be very well represented by New Democrats elected tonight."

In claiming victory in his riding of Vancouver-Point Grey, Gordon Campbell gave thanks to his support team, saying, "One of the things I say to everybody is, you don't get to be premier if you don't get to be an MLA."

Campbell welcomed James' concession. "I appreciated her call, it was done in the right spirit, and it recognizes a lot of the problems we have in B.C. transcend political boundaries .... We have to listen to one another and learn from one another and I vow to do that as leader."

"We took the steps people told us not to take," said Campbell. "They weren't easy to take politically, but they were right to take. They can be done, they must be done and they will be done for the sake of our children."

"I appreciate the thousands and thousands of British Columbians who took the time to vote, whoever they decided to vote for," he added.

With a Liberal win, Campbell became the first B.C. premier in 26 years to win three consecutive elections. Former Social Credit leader Bill Bennett was last to pull off the feat, winning in 1975, 1979 and 1983.

The win also gives Campbell a mandate to push ahead with policies like his carbon tax, and the plan to keep the minimum wage at $8 per hour until economic storm clouds clear.

As of 9:45 p.m., B.C. Elections data shows 49 Liberal candidates in today's B.C. election to be leading in their ridings, while 36 NDP candidates have a break on their opponents. No Green candidates looks likely to pick up a victory.

In the popular vote, the Liberals have racked up 45.8 percent of votes counted, while the NDP is sitting on 42.1 percent. The Greens have polled 8.1 percent, indicating a fair-sized swing of former Green voters shifted to the NDP camp. The Conservatives sit on roughly 2.1 percent of the vote, with other parties struggling to grab enough votes to merit a mention.

In the referendum on electoral reform, British Columbians dealt what is likely to be a fatal blow to the Single Transferrable Vote system, appearing reject the idea for the second time in a row. At press time, only 39 per cent had voted for STV, well below the 60 per cent it needed to pass.

In the hotly contested seat of Delta South, Liberal star Wally Oppal has a one-vote vote break on independent Vicki Huntington with over half the ballot boxes counted.

Jenn McGinn of the NDP took a fall against Liberal Margaret McDiarmid in Vancouver-Fairview, with a 15 percent gap going to McDiarmid with a significant piece of the count locked away.

In what may be Carole James' sole consolation on the night, the NDP looked to tighten its political grip on Vancouver Island as the party battled provincial Liberal and Green contenders in traditionally strong New Democrat territory.

Results as of 9:30 p.m. showed the NDP with an early hold on most of Vancouver Island’s seats, however, several of the ridings were close battles separated by only a handful of votes.

In Cowichan Valley, where there was no incumbent, NDP candidate Bill Routley was declared winner over Cathy Basskin of the Liberals and Simon Lindley of the Greens.

NDP incumbent Maurine Karagianis was declared winner in Esquimalt-Royal Roads — she had a wide lead over Liberal Carl Ratsoy after initial polls were reported.

For the Green Party, the election meant going backwards. Green Party of B.C. Leader Jane Sterk, who was hoping to win the first legislative seat for the Greens, was trailing third in results, behind both Karagianis and Ratsoy.

At press time, the party had no seats and just over 8 per cent of the popular vote.

Sterk said she had hoped that her reputation as a former Esquimalt municipal councillor would win her seat, but NDP incumbent Maurine Karagianis surged ahead.

“I’m not surprised on one level. It was a long shot,” Sterk said.

Sterk said during the campaign she was forgoing a provincial leader’s tour this time to focus on winning her riding of Esquimalt-Royal Roads.

"We have a very strategic campaign, given the fact that we are not elected and we need to get people elected into the legislature," Sterk during the campaign.

"I don't have the luxury as the leader, like the other two do, where I can leave my riding for extended periods of time and assume that I'm going to win my seat," she added.

Sterk got 17 per cent of the vote in her riding Tuesday night.

Tuesday’s election returned many of Campbell’s top ministers from his previous cabinet including Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation Mike de Jong, Health Minister George Abbott and Finance Minister Colin Hansen.

John van Dongen, who had to resign during the campaign as solicitor-general because his license was suspended, also won.

“I think things have been very positive,” said van Dongen Tuesday night.

Van Dongen admitted there have been some jokes about his tickets but said people have been “very supportive.”

“They know I’ve worked very hard for the riding for the last 14 years,” he said.

In Kootenay East, Minister of Tourism Culture and the Arts Bill Bennett beat held on to secure the southeastern riding that many thought might swing to the NDP.

“It’s quite humbling to have such a strong show of support with people who live in this rural riding,” said Bennett, who won in 2005 with fewer than 700 votes.

“When it comes to election time, you’re not always rewarded,” the three-term MLA said. “This is a swing riding. It swings to the NDP more than it swings to us.”

Despite those who held on, there were some cabinet ministers who looked in trouble.

Liberal cabinet ministers Ida Chong and Murray Coell faced tough battles in the ridings of Oak Bay-Gordon Head and Saanich North and the Islands, from NDP candidates Jessica Van der Veen and Gary Holman. The ridings were too close to call around 9:30 p.m.

While some ministers were in trouble, Campbell did see new faces that many have speculated could hold cabinet potential.

Kash Heed, who some are touting as a possible solicitor-general, won his Vancouver Fairview riding.

Moira Stilwell also carried her riding of Vancouver-Langara.

Regional breakdowns also played a key role Tuesday night.

Surrey voters appeared to stick to the status quo, with six incumbents leading in eight ridings.

In Surrey-Tynehead, Liberal incumbent Dave Hayer maintained a narrow lead over NDP rival Pat Zanon for most of the evening.

At press time, Hayer had 1,579 votes, about 200 more than the NDP’s Debbie Lawrance at 1,355 with 43 out of 125 polls reporting.

Hayer was left vulnerable after a recent shift in electoral boundaries added a swath of NDP-friendly Surrey-Whalley to his riding, but appeared to be hanging on.

In the newly-created riding of Surrey-Fleetwood, the race was also neck and neck, with NDP veteran Jagrup Brar holding on to a slight lead of less than 300 votes over Liberal upstart Jagmohan Singh.

Brar, who represented Surrey-Panorama Ridge in 2005, but jumped to the Fleetwood Riding after distribution, had 1,465 votes compared to Singh’s 1,187 at press time with 28 out of 138 ballot boxes reporting.

In Surrey-Panorama, Liberal candidate and political newcomer Stephanie Cadieux appeared headed to Victoria after pulling away with 60 per cent of the votes compared to NDP candidate Debbie Lawrance’s 34 per cent early on.

“I’m feeling pretty good, very anxious to see the final results,” said a cautiously-optimistic Cadieux, who was watching results slowly trickle in at her campaign office.

The Liberals maintained their hold over most of the North Shore Tuesday, with party candidates sweeping to victory in three of four ridings.

At press time, only two of the four crucial Burnaby ridings appeared to be decided, with Liberal Harry Bloy leading in Burnaby-Lougheed and NDP Raj Chouhan leading in Burnaby-Edmonds.

At press time, both Burnaby-Deer Lake and Burnaby North were too close to call.

On Vancouver Island, the NDP held its political grip Tuesday night. Results as of 9:30 p.m. showed New Democrats elected or leading in 10 of 14 Island ridings.

"It's been such an honour for me to work with thousands of British Columbians throughout this campaign through their struggles and successes.... To NDP workers, you've put in incredible hours, working phones, knocking on doors, putting up signs, thank you for your incredible hard work," said James.

"I've always said that politics and community service is a noble cause, and I believe that to this day. I urge you all to continue to speak out between elections because democracy isn't something that happens every four years."

For James, the election result will prompt countless post-mortems on her campaign, and will have some within the party questioning her political future.

James was elected leader of the NDP in November 2003, promising a modern vision for the party and a new relationship with unionized labour.

In 2005, James led the party to 33 seats from the three it had before. The Liberals took 46 seats in that election.

This time, new electoral boundaries have added six seats to the Legislature, meaning there are a total 85 seats up for grabs.

On Tuesday night, James’s party was leading or elected in 36 seats, which meant it gained seats from the 34 it had going into the election -- a factor that is sure to allow James a strong argument she should stay on as leader.

"I think we're all going to sit down and take a look and reflect on the results tonight, and I'll always do what's best for the party and for British Columbians," she said

James paid respect to Gordon Campbell for winning a third term; "It's a great accomplishment, he deserves congrats for his service to British Columbia and continued service as premier. We'll be going in as a stronger voice, we've got some new members in the legislature. I think we ran a very strong campaign, clearly the economy was a strong concern for people and they were looking at not changing horses in a tough time."

The Liberals nearly swept every seat in the 2001 election, winning 77 of 79 ridings. Cuts and layoffs leading up to the 2005 election led to a more balanced government with 46 Liberals and 33 NDP Members of Legislative Assembly.

jfowlie@vancouversun.com

-- With files from Doug Ward and Canwest News Service
Source: Vancouver Sun, CanWest Media

[whatnext]

Shame we`re stuck with Premier Smarmy for another term. Assuming of course he survives the release of all BC Railgate revelations which the Libs will be powerless to stop as the case grinds forward. Anyone notice that Gordo hardly had a resounding victory over Mel Lehan in Pt Grey.

At least STV went down in flames and will hopefully take the Green party with it.

All in all a lacklustre turnout for a lacklustre campaign.

[CBeats]

STV sounded like a good, progressive idea. I think I was just excited for a change. Plus, putting numbers down is better than checks or "X"'s. I think it's a shame it wasn't passed. Oh well...

[Jacques]

The liberals are in, maybe now my headache will stop at least for the next 4 years.
Boring election we all knew that Gordo would get in, money and hypocrisy always wins
free democracy, now if we can only have more RENOVICTION the slum lord will have a Maddoff day to boot

[ambaUp]

Wally Oppal wins his riding by 2 votes. Certainly looks like there will be a recount there. http://results.elections.bc.ca/ed/GE-2009-05-12_Delta%20South.html

[whatnext]

Wally Oppal wins his riding by 2 votes. Certainly looks like there will be a recount there. http://results.elections.bc.ca/ed/GE-2009-05-12_Delta%20South.html

I'm saying a prayer that he loses. He's ineffective in the extreme.

[s211]

STV sounded like a good, progressive idea. I think I was just excited for a change. Plus, putting numbers down is better than checks or "X"'s. I think it's a shame it wasn't passed. Oh well...

For me, "progressive" would mean NOT putting STV stickers all over private property and items. As soon as that started, they lowered themselves to the same level as people who put "9/11 was an inside job" stickers on newspaper boxes, i.e. "cranks".

[mr.x]

Holy crap is an understatement as Oppal won by TWO VOTES:
http://www.vancouversun.com/Delta+South+votes+separate+Oppal+Huntington/1590740/story.html

[Spork]

I'm saying a prayer that he loses. He's ineffective in the extreme.

How so?

[djmk]

Holy crap is an understatement as Oppal won by TWO VOTES:
http://www.vancouversun.com/Delta+South+votes+separate+Oppal+Huntington/1590740/story.html


i heard on CKNW that if Vicki Huntington wins, she will be the first independent to ever win a seat.

the greens seemed to be decimated in this election. They could not even beat the conservatives. ouch (in certain ridings....)

[WaxItYourself]

i heard on CKNW that if Vicki Huntington wins, she will be the first independent to ever win a seat.

the greens seemed to be decimated in this election. They could not even beat the conservatives. ouch (in certain ridings....)

Chuck Cadman was an Independant when he won was he not?

[jhausner]

Chuck Cadman was an Independant when he won was he not?

Chuck didn't run for the Province ever only Federal.

[NetMapel]

Do we know what the voter turnout rating is now ?

[mr.x]

Voter turnout just above 50 per cent
Down from a high of 77 per cent in 1983.
Tamara Slobogean VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) | Wednesday, May 13th, 2009
Bookmark

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - Despite a top notch awareness program by Elections BC, this election did not set any voter turn out records. Initial figures peg voter turnout across the province at just 51 per cent.

Speaking to people on the street voters say that turnout isn’t really that surprising “It's a sad thing to say but you know, some of these people are so mad they don't even vote, and that's the bad part.”

It was hoped that 62 per cent of B.C.'s nearly three-million voters would head to the polls. Analysts say the slipping turnout suggests parties are failing to come up with policies that interest voters.

[NetMapel]

Wow that's pretty pathetic. The elderlies are obviously the ones who have the highest participation rate, which is why they dictate how the policies will be made. I feel like us youth really have no place to complain now because MOST OF US DON'T PARTICIPATE in this democratic process. I'm very disappointed.

[jhausner]

Wow that's pretty pathetic. The elderlies are obviously the ones who have the highest participation rate, which is why they dictate how the policies will be made. I feel like us youth really have no place to complain now because MOST OF US DON'T PARTICIPATE in this democratic process. I'm very disappointed.

That's always been the case though. It's the nature of being young. When you're young you rarely look at big picture items. Look at your average 22 year old male for example. His main purpose and focus on life is school, getting some action from the local lady(ies), drinking a beer tonight, checking up on sports scores, and possibly hanging out with some friends Friday night.

Politics doesn't concern him. Getting married doesn't concern him. Having kids doesn't concern him. His pension doesn't concern him. That's just how it is. That's also why I respect Obama and what he did in the US during their election in bringing out the young voter and getting them to participate more.

Our politics in BC for the most part is still in the old'school mode. Take the NDP for example. I found it just so ironic and hypocritical when she stood there yesterday saying it was her opinion this campaign was the most personal and dirty of campaigns ever in our history. Why? Because 95% of the attacks and dirt throwing came from her and the NDP. That's just normal politics where they say one thing and do another. So old politics doesn't care about young people. It doesn't respect them, it doesn't listen to them, so why should young people care?

They don't and I don't blame them because from their perspective, they have more important things like tonight's keg party, to worry about.

[Kodii]

Wow. That's all I can say about Wally Oppal's lead.

[djmk]

Voter turnout just above 50 per cent
Down from a high of 77 per cent in 1983.
Tamara Slobogean VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) | Wednesday, May 13th, 2009


Analysts say the slipping turnout suggests parties are failing to come up with policies that interest voters.

or maybe its election BC's fault.

why aren't voting booths in malls or where ever the kids are at?

[hollywoodnorth]

Wow that interview with Jim Sinclair was really something. He's really out of touch. The NDP really should distance themselves from people like him for their own good.

Good job Gordo. :cheers:

agreed Jim is a NUTTER!

GO GORDO GO!

[NetMapel]

or maybe its election BC's fault.

why aren't voting booths in malls or where ever the kids are at?

Doesn't really matter where the voting booths are if you don't plan on voting. Back in 2006's federal election, they have a booth right in the middle of my school, University of Western Ontario's popular student centre. It's a well travelled place by many many UWO students but the turnout rate was still pathetic. So if you didn't plan on voting, you are just not going to vote even if they bring the damn voting booth in front of your door.

[mr.x]

I missed the interview. What did Sinclair say?

[quobobo]

or maybe its election BC's fault.

why aren't voting booths in malls or where ever the kids are at?

I think the real question is why you want a group that is generally less informed about politics (non-voters and youth) to be voting more.

[zivan56]

So the winner, with an overwhelming majority (49%), is nobody. Perhaps the question on STV should have been on Direct Democracy so that political parties don't exist anymore (or do in a very limited manner).
I didn't vote last time and barely forced myself to do so this time. However, next time I will probably not vote, as it sends a stronger message. Hoping it will be around 40% next time so that voting is made easier or mandatory in the future.

[s211]

or maybe its election BC's fault.

why aren't voting booths in malls or where ever the kids are at?

Well that's a dumb question, given that kids aren't of the age of majority and therefore can't vote [THANK GOD].

[Kodii]

Well that's a dumb question, given that kid's aren't of the age of majority and therefore can't vote [THANK GOD].

Did anyone else catch that StudentVote elected a majority NDP party and passed STV?

Again, thank God.

[Spork]

I would like to see an election package sent to every registered voting household similar to in the Vancouver civic elections. I found it to be very informative. I probably would not have voted in the civic election if I had not had the information handed to me in a non-partisan format. I actually went through the entire booklet from cover to cover and made my choices that way.

[Yume-sama]

Maybe they should raise taxes by some nominal amount, say $50, and then give everybody a $50 tax credit if they vote.

People who can't do math love nothing more than a tax refund of money that was already rightfully theirs.

[deasine]

I missed the interview. What did Sinclair say?

You didn't say anything... he just pulls the same things out of his hat all the time.

[djmk]

However, next time I will probably not vote, as it sends a stronger message.

oh, i'm curious. and what message is that? that you do not care?

perhaps you found a new way of communicating on election day?

[zivan56]

oh, i'm curious. and what message is that? that you do not care?

perhaps you found a new way of communicating on election day?

Exactly; that I don't care for the current election system that is. :cheers:
Not that I don't want to vote, but it should be made mandatory so that we actually have a democracy where everyone is actually represented (regardless of who they vote for).

[LeftCoaster]

Why? If someone is too ignorant or ambivalent to the process and its consequences why would we want their opinion?

Everyone I talk to from Australia where they have compulsory voting thinks it is a terrible concept.

[zivan56]

Perhaps, but 51% of people deciding for 100% of people isn't exactly the voice of the people. Even if the work less party got a couple of seats due to forced voting, it would be will of the people after all.

[djmk]

Perhaps, but 51% of people deciding for 100% of people isn't exactly the voice of the people. Even if the work less party got a couple of seats due to forced voting, it would be will of the people after all.

even if we got a different system, i doubt very much more people will vote.

the people who did not vote only have themselves to blame. the less people who vote means my vote counts more, and frankly i feel i'm always right, so i'm ok with that.

people don't vote because they lost the sense of civic duty. just ask your peers who ran in their ridings and you'll be shocked to hear that many don't know and don't care

[Smooth]

I would prefer an informed minority voting over an ignorant majority. If people won't take the time to vote then I bet they wouldn't take the time to properly research the parties if they were forced to vote.

[WarrenC12]

I don't understand some of the opinions here. Frankly, if you're eligible and don't vote, you're an idiot. Sending a message? You're sending me a message that says I can tell you what to do. As usual, if you don't vote, STFU. If you do and your party doesn't make it, by all means complain away.

Voting is hard? Boo-freaking-hoo. I had to walk an astounding 5 blocks to vote.. oh pity me. It was open 8am to 8pm, so no problem with my work schedule. And there were 4 days of advance voting.

I think you need to go live in China or another dictatorship for a while, then come back here and complain about democracy. :whip:

[ue]

LOL, I'm watching Global's coverage right now and they went all CNN with their studio and graphics.:haha:

Polling Results Source on title: GlobalBC, CTV, CBC [updated every five - ten minutes]
LIB = BC Liberals
NDP = BC New Democrats
GRN = BC Green Party
OTH = Other

STV = Single Transferable Vote
FPP = First Past The Post

where are the conservatives? maybe i'm missing something.

they're one of the 2 largest parties in the nation.

[LeftCoaster]

Provincial politics are all different parties. The BC Liberals have no affiliation to the National Liberal party and are fall somewhere between the National Liberal and Conservative Parties in the political spectrum.

Oh and a very overdue dancing banana to celebrate the results: :banana:

[ue]

^That's odd. Here we have PC (Conservatives) and Liberals ... interesting ?! But how can you have a combination of the two - they're like opposites.

[osirisboy]

I don't understand some of the opinions here. Frankly, if you're eligible and don't vote, you're an idiot. Sending a message? You're sending me a message that says I can tell you what to do. As usual, if you don't vote, STFU. If you do and your party doesn't make it, by all means complain away.

Voting is hard? Boo-freaking-hoo. I had to walk an astounding 5 blocks to vote.. oh pity me. It was open 8am to 8pm, so no problem with my work schedule. And there were 4 days of advance voting.

I think you need to go live in China or another dictatorship for a while, then come back here and complain about democracy. :whip:

agreed!! :tup:

[quobobo]

I don't understand some of the opinions here. Frankly, if you're eligible and don't vote, you're an idiot.

I find that a little offensive.

Multiply the probability that your one vote will swing the election (ridiculously small) by the benefit that you feel you would receive if your preferred candidate won (probably not going to make a huge difference). That's how much you can expect to benefit from voting, and frankly I think it's completely understandable if someone doesn't think that's worth 30 minutes of their time.

[LeftCoaster]

Not really, the NDP are more opposite to the Conservatives. Federally the Liberal party are more centrist compared to the Conservatives who lean much more right.

Also I think it would be safe to say that the PC and Liberal parties of Alberta have no official affiliation to their provincial namesakes.

[dreambrother808]

Yeah and in Alberta only the Conservatives win. Obviously BC and Alberta are very different beasts. Live in both places for a while and that becomes obvious.

[s211]

I don't understand some of the opinions here. Frankly, if you're eligible and don't vote, you're an idiot. Sending a message? You're sending me a message that says I can tell you what to do. As usual, if you don't vote, STFU. If you do and your party doesn't make it, by all means complain away.

Voting is hard? Boo-freaking-hoo. I had to walk an astounding 5 blocks to vote.. oh pity me. It was open 8am to 8pm, so no problem with my work schedule. And there were 4 days of advance voting.

:cheers:

Nothing spells irony like a "What. Ever." pothead whining about how pot should be legalized, but couldn't give a rats-patootie about voting.

[Yume-sama]

They're not all THAT different.

There really isn't a hard right or hard left in this Country (that people listen to, anyways, and they mostly fall in to the category of hard left).

Oddly we're neither as Conservative as the USA, or as Liberal as the USA. Guess we fall in the agreeable middle...

[ue]

Yeah and in Alberta only the Conservatives win. Obviously BC and Alberta are very different beasts. Live in both places for a while and that becomes obvious.

Not true. I've heard the Interior BC is one of the most conservative and (not my words, don't bash me) redneck areas in the country.

Alberta had a Liberal party last in the 1920s though and have had Conservative since the 70s. The urban areas of Edmonton and Calgary are very liberal though, or NDP in some cases. If you were to put a spin on it, Calgary is very conservative. The suburbs and rural areas though are very conservative.

We had the same premier for 14 years - Klein. He wasn't the best, I don't get how he stayed that long. And now we got a goofier guy ... Ed Stelmach. Just look at his wikipedia picture and you'll see what I mean. He looks very embarrasing to be the premier here. I myself am more liberal, but I'm in a very conservative province :(. The west Coast is very liberal though.

I don't know a whole lot about politics but I mind as well share my part.

[flight_from_kamakura]

Not true. I've heard the Interior BC is one of the most conservative and (not my words, don't bash me) redneck areas in the country.

nope

[whatnext]

How so?

Wally did nothing as the gang problem spiralled out of control, and has hid behind the skirts of the law when it comes to dodging questions about BC Railgate.

It also boggles my mind that John "let's make a real estate deal" Les was re-elected, We truly get the gov't we deserve. :hell:

[Spork]

Wally did nothing as the gang problem spiralled out of control

What do you suggest he do? Make mandatory minimum sentences? Martial law?

[Yume-sama]

What do you suggest he do? Make mandatory minimum sentences? Martial law?

Grab a pitchfork and a bullet proof vest and chase them outta town!

[David]

the absolutely pathetic voter turnout demonstrates the need for electoral reform. i don't blame people who don't vote. what is the point of voting when there is very little chance your vote will make any difference at all. I had ZERO desire to vote for either the liberals or the NDP this time around, and I am sure many other British Columbians felt the same way. When the only policies that the two major parties come up with is "We will do it different than they did!" and "They suck! They are corrupt! They post controversial pictures on their Facebook!" why would anyone go out of their way to vote for the lesser of two evils?

[NetMapel]

Hello ? One of the riding has a guy leading by just 2 votes. You tell me if you won't make a difference if you're in that riding.

[Pinion]

All I can think about when I hear most people didn't even bother to participate is Ralph Nader's famous quote:

"If you're not turned on to politics, politics will turn on you."

Anyway I voted for the hot Japanese chick. http://www.breadnroses.ca/forums/images/smilies/groucho-marx.gif

[worldwide]

For me, "progressive" would mean NOT putting STV stickers all over private property and items. As soon as that started, they lowered themselves to the same level as people who put "9/11 was an inside job" stickers on newspaper boxes, i.e. "cranks".

geez, you are such a cranky old man.

[WarrenC12]

I find that a little offensive.

Why? Are you some sort of spoiled rich kid?

Multiply the probability that your one vote will swing the election (ridiculously small) by the benefit that you feel you would receive if your preferred candidate won (probably not going to make a huge difference). That's how much you can expect to benefit from voting, and frankly I think it's completely understandable if someone doesn't think that's worth 30 minutes of their time.

Sounds pretty defeatist to me, 30 mins of your time every 4 years for basically what amounts to the only time to provide your opinion on the social, economic, environmental, etc. future of the place you live. Although I'm sure your precious time is better spent on a Seinfeld re-run.

You can move somewhere else in the world where you don't have to vote, be my guest.

[WarrenC12]

the absolutely pathetic voter turnout demonstrates the need for electoral reform. i don't blame people who don't vote. what is the point of voting when there is very little chance your vote will make any difference at all. I had ZERO desire to vote for either the liberals or the NDP this time around, and I am sure many other British Columbians felt the same way. When the only policies that the two major parties come up with is "We will do it different than they did!" and "They suck! They are corrupt! They post controversial pictures on their Facebook!" why would anyone go out of their way to vote for the lesser of two evils?

There were other parties out there. Vote green, encourage your friends to do the same.

Simple math people. We had what, 50% voter turnout, and the Liberals got what, 48% of the popular vote? That means that the people who didn't vote had the power to elect an entirely different party.

Your statement about electoral reform is laughable. WTF else do you think was on the ballot last night? Guess what, it didn't pass because of apathetic morons out there sitting at home complaining about the voting process.

Guess what? You're all getting what you deserve. :koko:

[WarrenC12]

They're not all THAT different.

There really isn't a hard right or hard left in this Country (that people listen to, anyways, and they mostly fall in to the category of hard left).

Oddly we're neither as Conservative as the USA, or as Liberal as the USA. Guess we fall in the agreeable middle...

There are some fringe left wing groups in the USA, but the Democrats are way more right wing than the NDP, and probably even the Liberal Party of Canada, at least guys like Obama and Clinton. Pelosi is another story.

[Yume-sama]

There are some fringe left wing groups in the USA, but the Democrats are way more right wing than the NDP, and probably even the Liberal Party of Canada, at least guys like Obama and Clinton. Pelosi is another story.

Yeah. Well I meant we don't really have a Texas, nor do we have a California. :tup:

And when one thinks of CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL they don't think small town guy somewhere, it's always as far as can be to either side.

Probably has a lot to do with how the media portrays it.

[WarrenC12]

nope

The interior of BC in recent past has voted Conservative, and before that Reform (most right wing party we've ever seen in Canada). So... what are you talking about?

[WarrenC12]

Yeah. Well I meant we don't really have a Texas, nor do we have a California. :tup:

And when one thinks of CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL they don't think small town guy somewhere, it's always as far as can be to either side.

Sure we do, they are Alberta and BC respectively. :D

[WarrenC12]

What do you suggest he do? Make mandatory minimum sentences? Martial law?

He did nothing until the media was all over him, then he played the "we can't do anything, it's up to the feds" card. Pure BS, but he got roasted pretty good live on CKNW, so that was cool. :notacrook:

[Yume-sama]

Sure we do, they are Alberta and BC respectively. :D

Not even close. They may be wannabes, but not even close to the real thing, politically.

[djmk]

I find that a little offensive.

Multiply the probability that your one vote will swing the election (ridiculously small) by the benefit that you feel you would receive if your preferred candidate won (probably not going to make a huge difference). That's how much you can expect to benefit from voting, and frankly I think it's completely understandable if someone doesn't think that's worth 30 minutes of their time.

apparently you do not live in delta south (2 votes!!!!) or any of the other 1/2 dozen ridings determined by less than 1% of the vote

[quobobo]

Why? Are you some sort of spoiled rich kid?

That's funny, I thought I explained why in the very next sentence.

Sounds pretty defeatist to me, 30 mins of your time every 4 years for basically what amounts to the only time to provide your opinion on the social, economic, environmental, etc. future of the place you live. Although I'm sure your precious time is better spent on a Seinfeld re-run.

Except providing my opinion really only accomplishes anything if my vote swings the election, and like I said, the chances of that are extremely small.

You can move somewhere else in the world where you don't have to vote, be my guest.

Wow, I try to provide an alternate perspective on the subject and you call me a spoiled rich kid and tell me to leave the country. You must be a real winner in person.

[quobobo]

apparently you do not live in delta south (2 votes!!!!) or any of the other 1/2 dozen ridings determined by less than 1% of the vote

It can happen, but it's extremely rare. Bryan Caplan has some statistics dealing with this in his book, and I've seen some on the net before. I'll see if I can dig some up.

[ue]

Sure we do, they are Alberta and BC respectively. :D

:hahano: . We have 2 major cities here, you guys have one of the TOP3 but only have 1 major city. it evens out imo. Or wait ... maybe i Don't get what you're talking about. I think I do.

[Kodii]

:previous: As in Alberta is our Texas and BC is our California

[Pinion]

:hahano: . We have 2 major cities here, you guys have one of the TOP3 but only have 1 major city. it evens out imo. Or wait ... maybe i Don't get what you're talking about. I think I do.

Metro Vancouver is bigger than metro Calgary and metro Edmonton combined.

But you were right... you don't get it.

[WarrenC12]

That's funny, I thought I explained why in the very next sentence.

Your opinion is your one vote doesn't count so why bother. I'm just expanding that to the rest of your life.. you're only one person, why bother existing? Sounds harsh but it's your opinion not mine. :shrug:


Wow, I try to provide an alternate perspective on the subject and you call me a spoiled rich kid and tell me to leave the country. You must be a real winner in person.

Sorry but you just come off as one of those people who think they are entitled to everything. Members of the APC come to mind. How dare you only get one vote and not get to decide everything for us.

[WarrenC12]

:previous: As in Alberta is our Texas and BC is our California

Ya that was my point. Now Florida, we certainly don't have one of those (thankfully). :cheers:

[dreambrother808]

I'm living in the Interior right now, and I lived in the most liberal riding in all of Alberta, Edmonton-Strathcona. The Interior, in terms of day to day life, the conversations you have, the people you meet, is in no way as redneck as Alberta, from my experience at least, and that's comparing the most liberal place in Alberta to the least liberal in BC, supposedly. There are a lot of rednecks, here that's true, even in areas of the Lower Mainland, however, they are balanced out by other more liberal people all across BC, in a way that they most certainly are not in Alberta. Alberta is more of a fascist monoculture. Albertans do a very good job of shaming anyone for thinking differently. I'm sure that starts at a very young age. The media there is a prime example of how people are brainwashed to only support conservative ideology. Flame me for the "fascist" statement if you want, lol. :D I'm sorry but I've never hated living in a place more than I did Edmonton, and that includes Thunder Bay, where I grew up. To add further fuel to the argument, I would also say that the time I spent living in Winnipeg was like a NYC in comparison. ;) Edmontonians love to say "but Calgary is more conservative." That is such a moot point. They are not apples and oranges. They are a similar variety of apple, growing a few orchards apart, that's all.

[Yume-sama]

I'm living in the Interior right now, and I lived in the most liberal riding in all of Alberta, Edmonton-Strathcona. The Interior, in terms of day to day life, the conversations you have, the people you meet, is in no way as redneck as Alberta, from my experience at least, and that's comparing the most liberal place in Alberta to the least liberal in BC, supposedly. There are a lot of rednecks, here that's true, even in areas of the Lower Mainland, however, they are balanced out by other more liberal people all across BC, in a way that they most certainly are not in Alberta. Alberta is more of a fascist monoculture. Albertans do a very good job of shaming anyone for thinking differently. I'm sure that starts at a very young age. The media there is a prime example of how people are brainwashed to only support conservative ideology. Flame me for the "fascist" statement if you want, lol. :D I'm sorry but I've never hated living in a place more than I did Edmonton, and that includes Thunder Bay, where I grew up. To add further fuel to the argument, I would also say that the time I spent living in Winnipeg was like a NYC in comparison. ;) Edmontonians love to say "but Calgary is more conservative." That is such a moot point. They are not apples and oranges. They are a similar variety of apple, growing a few orchards apart, that's all.

Well, what did you expect? :haha:

[djmk]

I'm living in the Interior right now, and I lived in the most liberal riding in all of Alberta, Edmonton-Strathcona. The Interior, in terms of day to day life, the conversations you have, the people you meet, is in no way as redneck as Alberta, from my experience at least, and that's comparing the most liberal place in Alberta to the least liberal in BC, supposedly. There are a lot of rednecks, here that's true, even in areas of the Lower Mainland, however, they are balanced out by other more liberal people all across BC, in a way that they most certainly are not in Alberta. Alberta is more of a fascist monoculture. Albertans do a very good job of shaming anyone for thinking differently. I'm sure that starts at a very young age. The media there is a prime example of how people are brainwashed to only support conservative ideology. Flame me for the "fascist" statement if you want, lol. :D I'm sorry but I've never hated living in a place more than I did Edmonton, and that includes Thunder Bay, where I grew up. To add further fuel to the argument, I would also say that the time I spent living in Winnipeg was like a NYC in comparison. ;) Edmontonians love to say "but Calgary is more conservative." That is such a moot point. They are not apples and oranges. They are a similar variety of apple, growing a few orchards apart, that's all.

fascist monoculture in an apple orchard. you are hilarious!!!

but BC is "the best place on earth". runners up are winnipeg and thunder bay.


:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

[quobobo]

Your opinion is your one vote doesn't count so why bother. I'm just expanding that to the rest of your life.. you're only one person, why bother existing? Sounds harsh but it's your opinion not mine. :shrug:

I believe voting isn't beneficial enough to justify doing so. That doesn't mean I think the same about existing.

If you have issues with my basic assumptions why don't you take it up with the political scientists who use very similar models to predict voting behaviour (look up "calculus of voting"). Exactly what benefit do I reap from voting, aside from a very very small chance to choose my elected representative?


Sorry but you just come off as one of those people who think they are entitled to everything. Members of the APC come to mind. How dare you only get one vote and not get to decide everything for us.

Entitled to everything? I said that I don't consider voting to be rational, I never said that I should be given absolute power. You're reading a lot into my posts that isn't there, were you reading my posts or just using them as an excuse to vent?

[Yume-sama]

:yes: You just don't want to do jury duty.

[dreambrother808]

but BC is "the best place on earth". runners up are winnipeg and thunder bay.

Winnipeg and Thunder Bay are just good examples of how shitty you can be and yet still trump Edmonton, lol.

Give me Montreal for culture and fun, or Toronto for sheer size and amount of things to do. In the end, I'll take Vancouver for the balance of all things.

[phesto]

If you have issues with my basic assumptions why don't you take it up with the political scientists who use very similar models to predict voting behaviour (look up "calculus of voting"). Exactly what benefit do I reap from voting, aside from a very very small chance to choose my elected representative?



Of course there is an extremely small probability that your vote will be the decisive vote. The calculus of voting theory has been around for years and may have been accepted as a basic theory, but has been repeatedly shown to be inherently flawed on the basis that it doesn’t account for basic rational choice of the individual beyond merely ‘deciding the vote’. Obviously there are other factors which motivate people to vote, not the least of which is a sense of duty to exercise one’s democratic rights. Actually, I think one of the biggest reasons is that people fear the regret not voting and having their preferred candidate lose, as I’m sure was the case with some people in South Delta Wednesday morning. There are also volumes written in argument against the rational choice model, but again, these fail to explain the basic fact that many people do vote.

I’m not suggesting it’s wrong not to vote on the basis of some kind of cost-benefit analysis, but the vast majority of people will not do this even if they understand that their vote has essentially a zero probability chance of deciding an election. Moreover, someone who perceives a near-zero benefit from voting certainly isn’t likely to be interested enough in politics to be posting about it on a message board…:)

[s211]

Alberta is more of a fascist monoculture. Albertans do a very good job of shaming anyone for thinking differently. I'm sure that starts at a very young age.

In Calgary, "fascist monoculture" is pronounced "the Stampede". What a gawd-awful amount of cornball rolled in tobacco spit.

[Yume-sama]

I don't see what corndogs, mini doughnuts, and cowboy hats has to do with Fascism.

Did they have that in Italy?

[djmk]

I don't see what corndogs, mini doughnuts, and cowboy hats has to do with Fascism.

Did they have that in Italy?

gawd, ever heard of a spaghetti western?:haha:

[quobobo]

Of course there is an extremely small probability that your vote will be the decisive vote. The calculus of voting theory has been around for years and may have been accepted as a basic theory, but has been repeatedly shown to be inherently flawed on the basis that it doesn’t account for basic rational choice of the individual beyond merely ‘deciding the vote’. Obviously there are other factors which motivate people to vote, not the least of which is a sense of duty to exercise one’s democratic rights. Actually, I think one of the biggest reasons is that people fear the regret not voting and having their preferred candidate lose, as I’m sure was the case with some people in South Delta Wednesday morning. There are also volumes written in argument against the rational choice model, but again, these fail to explain the basic fact that many people do vote.


I completely agree that there's other factors at work, otherwise hardly anyone would vote. That said, I haven't found enough to convince me to do so - my sense of civic duty is not really there. I think your point about regret would resonate with a lot of people but it seems irrational to me - I'm already considering the situation where my vote is decisive. I don't want to play a negative-sum game only to avoid regret.


I’m not suggesting it’s wrong not to vote on the basis of some kind of cost-benefit analysis, but the vast majority of people will not do this even if they understand that their vote has essentially a zero probability chance of deciding an election. Moreover, someone who perceives a near-zero benefit from voting certainly isn’t likely to be interested enough in politics to be posting about it on a message board…:)

I don't know if I agree with this point - I only ran into the various calculus of voting theories (and decided that voting probably wasn't worth my time) because I'm interested in politics. That said, there's probably a lot of people who perceive a near-zero benefit without thinking it through at all, so maybe you're right.

[s211]

I don't see what corndogs, mini doughnuts, and cowboy hats has to do with Fascism.

I equate the Stampede with a forced death march imposed by a monocultural cabal which cannot accept that some people couldn't care less about it.

[Hong Kongese]

Guess who?



http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr71/yellowfever_2008/1603766.jpg
Premier Gordon Campbell began his foray into politics in 1972 when at just 23 he served as the executive assistant to Vancouver mayor Art Phillips. He may become one of the most influential leaders in B.C.'s history.
Photograph by: Glenn Baglo, Vancouver Sun files, Vancouver Sun

[flight_from_kamakura]

okay, both the "forced death march" and young gordo (wtf?!?!) posts deserve recognition. huzzah!

[Kodii]

After recount, Independent Vicky Huntington has defeated Liberal Wally Oppal by 32 votes in Delta South, and Liberal Donna Barnett has defeated NDP Charlie Wyse by 88 votes in Cariboo-Chilcotin. Both races can go to judicial recount.

Liberal 49
NDP 35
Independent 1

[NetMapel]

After recount, Independent Vicky Huntington has defeated Liberal Wally Oppal by 32 votes in Delta South, and Liberal Donna Barnett has defeated NDP Charlie Wyse by 88 votes in Cariboo-Chilcotin. Both races can go to judicial recount.

Liberal 49
NDP 35
Independent 1

Ouch, Oppal.

[djh]

Ouch, Oppal.

It's not over yet. Last I heard there were several hundred absentee ballots yet to be counted.

[Kodii]

Those results are including absentee ballots. Huntington's lead was by 14 votes without absentee.

[Spork]

It's not over yet. Last I heard there were several hundred absentee ballots yet to be counted.

Recount is completed. http://www.elections.bc.ca/docs/stats/2009-ge-ref/fc/GE-2009-05-12_Candidate.html

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Delta South

Oppal 9,945
Huntington 10,037
Difference: 92 votes
Final Count Status: Complete

[mr.x]

How could there be such a large difference after the recount? That's nearly a hundred votes, hardly marginal.

[deasine]

So sad =(

[metroXpress]

They should call for another recount??

[djh]

So sad =(

True, it's sad. Poor old Wally, thrown on the sacrificial pyre.

But at the same time, two things:

a) The government can STILL legally appoint him as the Attorney-General, even though he's not an Elected A-G. He would just be a top civil servant. I'd imagine this might be an unpopular move with the Opposition, but considering he *was* making some important improvements in the judicial system, and was previously a senior judge and prosecutor so knows the system better than most prospects for the job, I can't see the general public complaining about him finishing his work on such an important portfolio.

b) Ultimately, the people in that riding have spoken. The Liberals wouldn't have lost if the government had listened to the people whose proverbial back yards were being dug-up to put a high-power transmission line in. Generally NIMBYism is silly, but something like this, which may or may not seriously affect your long-term health (power lines and links to cancers), I think those residents really did deserve some respect from the government, especially since there was a safer alternative path to run those transmission lines.

[Stingray2004]

a) The government can STILL legally appoint him as the Attorney-General, even though he's not an Elected A-G. He would just be a top civil servant. I'd imagine this might be an unpopular move with the Opposition....


True, Wally could still be appointed AG. Remember the NDP appointed First Nations Chief Ed John to cabinet without holding a seat in the late 1990's.

[ravman]

double post

[ravman]

awww... i am going to miss stonewally.... NOT

the # of times he said "its before the courts" got him a world record

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENkSRYKkK-w
ENkSRYKkK-w