[Just Build It]

I've heard through a friend that the city is charging higher fees for the Lilac festival. apparently the city was charging something like $5,000, but they've been increasing the fee over the years, and now they are looking to charge based on square footage used by the stalls. Estimates are that the total cost would be around $50,000 dollars.

I don't know for sure if theses are the right numbers, but if that's the case, it really sucks. charging by the square footage will take away incentive for businesses to put up the stalls.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Have the little donation cans like they do for Gay Pride in Toronto. Give a toonie to support lilac fest. They'd be in the black in about 30 minutes.

[mersar]

If its the same issue that all the other festivals have been complaining about recently, the fee that they have an issue with is what the city (and CPS) is charging for security related costs. A couple aldermen were wanting to look into it and see if the policy can be changed but there is already a report being worked on that is supposed to be brought to council this fall about the fee policy for events from what I recall.

[Chinook Arch]

Have the little donation cans like they do for Gay Pride in Toronto. Give a toonie to support lilac fest. They'd be in the black in about 30 minutes.

Not a bad idea. A couple of years ago they had 135,000 and if even a third of the people chip in a loonie, it's a done deal.

Aside from that I really hope the city isn't getting a bit greedy. If they want to promote a more vibrant core they need to make sure they don't impede these festivals.

[jeffwhit]

Yeah, I think a loonie box would pretty much solve this problem. Everyone's in a good mood there, I'd certainly drop a couple in.

[AirGuitarChampion]

What I do like about Lilac Fest is the people walking around with dogs in a dog friendly environment. They all look like they're so happy (pet and owner).

What I don't like about Lilac Fest are the people walking around with large exotic snakes. I can't really tell if the snake is happy or not, or weather it's thinking biting my face would make it happy.

I don't think the small donation bins are a bad idea but I think supporting the vendors who are selling stuff is a better idea. Also... what of the businesses who don't actually rent a spot on the street but get increased traffic because of the event? Is the festival supported by the businesses in the area at all (im sure it is but to what extent).

For example the beer gardens on the NW corner of 4th and 17th must be a pretty good cash cow but probably doesn't actually rent a spot on the street, etc...

[Surrealplaces]

A combination of the city lowering the fees, and some extra fund raising would do the trick.

[Ferreth]

From http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/Lilac+Festival+costs+worry+backers/1649597/story.html
CALGARY - The 4th Street Lilac Festival paid the City of Calgary $3,300 in 2005. In 2008, that figure jumped to $45,000, after city council no longer exempted the popular, one-day festival from paying for road closures and policing.

As the operational costs for this 20-year-old free event continue to rise, those footing the bill worry about its future.

Festival organizer Jennifer Rempel declined to speak about the cost of Sunday's street party, but did say it was the first time the Lilac Festival was accepting do-nations from patrons.

"This is a festival that runs mostly on vendor fees,"she said. "And this is the first year we have donations, but that is a shared charity fundraiser with certain not-for-profit groups.

"We'll receive 50 per cent of that take, and after we pay forT-shirts and merchandise, I'm not sure we'll make much money off it.

"Depending on how things go, we may require Calgarians to make donations to keep the Lilac Festival going."

The festival runs 13 blocks along 4th Street S. W., with more than 600 vendors lined up tent-to-tent through the heart of the Mission district. The majority of its costs are its fees to the city, and Rempel said it would not receive its 2009 bill until after the festival ended.

A concert bylaw requires festivals in the city to have one police officer for every 1,000 people in attendance, at a cost of $93 an hour--an enormous bill to swallow for the Lilac Festival, which often attracts more than 100,000.

As a consequence, the vendors say they're worried their fees may rise next year.

Deanna Macauley, a jewelry vendor who runs Missmacglass. com from her home, said she started her day$350 in the red--$250 for her vendor fee and $100 for her tent.

"If I break even, I'll be pretty happy. But if the Lilac Festival decides to raise the price for home-based vendors, there's no way I can afford to do it."

I'd say that as a vendor if you can't make back $350 in a crowd like the Lilac Festival, you seriously need to reconsider your business model.

[freeweed]

That's horseshit. The city blows a lot more money on policing when it's not needed (Red Mile) and especially when there's no financial payment for it (East Village? I dunno, pick your part of town that needs extra policing).

The LAST thing we should do is discourage events like this, period. If you're gonna give the Cecil free security, you damn well better give it to festivals.

[wild wild west]

There isn't a sane person in this city who would not agree that the Lilac Festival and the other successful festivals are great for Calgarians, and for building an image for Calgary of a cosmopolitan, interesting city - yet City Hall is doing their best to fcuk it up for them.

[mersar]

Council is revisiting the bylaw that covers festivals, etc, this fall as at least a few of them have clued in that the current system will destroy the festivals fairly quickly. Unfortunately they aren't going to have the report on what to do ready until September, which is after pretty much all of the festivals for the year.

[Chinook Arch]

Council is revisiting the bylaw that covers festivals, etc, this fall as at least a few of them have clued in that the current system will destroy the festivals fairly quickly. Unfortunately they aren't going to have the report on what to do ready until September, which is after pretty much all of the festivals for the year.

Good to hear. Some of the bylaw is just plain stupid, I mean c'mon, a street festival of 120,000 isn't the same a sa concert of 120,000. I'm glad someon's coming to their senses.

[SubwayRev]

I agree with Ferreth, if you can't make $350, with 130,000 people walking by your business, than your have much bigger problems.

I would support the city offering free policing and road closure to an event that is starting out, but this event is very successful and has been going on for 20 years. With an even of this size and scope, the 4th Street businesses can easily afforad to pay the $45,000.

We wouldn't expect the city to provide free policing to the Stampede, and it usually attracts less than 130,000 per day. Nor would we expect the city to provide free policing to the Flames, and that's for under 20,000 people.

[freeweed]

Yet we do expect the city to provide free policing for the Red Mile (pretty sure the Melrose isn't footing the bill on that one), and all sorts of high crime areas. Maybe we should charge an admission fee for Olympic Plaza to recoup the costs? How about a property tax levy for residents of Dover - it seems every night on the news there's a major police investigation going on there.

[fusili]

Yet we do expect the city to provide free policing for the Red Mile (pretty sure the Melrose isn't footing the bill on that one), and all sorts of high crime areas. Maybe we should charge an admission fee for Olympic Plaza to recoup the costs? How about a property tax levy for residents of Dover - it seems every night on the news there's a major police investigation going on there.

I totally agree. Policing is a public service and a public good. It should never be done on a user-pay system. Granted, large events require a little extra security, but charging them $93 per officer per hour is absolutely ridiculous!

Just like freeweed said, we don't require Melrose, or the Cecil or whatever to pay for police. And I have no idea where the idea came from that just because lots of people are together in one spot, more crimes will be committed. Perhaps if they are all drunk, but other than pickpockets and petty thieves, what kind of crime are they expecting at Lilac festival. Assault? Yeah, that makes sense in a crowd of 100 K. Stupid Calgary.

[Chinook Arch]

I understand Ferreth's argument from a business case, but the festival isn't all about business. My gripe is more about how many policeman the city deems need to be there. 130 officers?? c'mon this isn't a rock concert. They could easily get away with half that amount.

I agree with Ferreth, if you can't make $350, with 130,000 people walking by your business, than your have much bigger problems.

I would support the city offering free policing and road closure to an event that is starting out, but this event is very successful and has been going on for 20 years. With an even of this size and scope, the 4th Street businesses can easily afforad to pay the $45,000.

We wouldn't expect the city to provide free policing to the Stampede, and it usually attracts less than 130,000 per day. Nor would we expect the city to provide free policing to the Flames, and that's for under 20,000 people.

[SubwayRev]

Yet we do expect the city to provide free policing for the Red Mile (pretty sure the Melrose isn't footing the bill on that one), and all sorts of high crime areas. Maybe we should charge an admission fee for Olympic Plaza to recoup the costs? How about a property tax levy for residents of Dover - it seems every night on the news there's a major police investigation going on there.

I understand what you're saying, but I think the difference between the Lilac festival and the Red Mile, is that there is no organization to the Red Mile. That was a bunch of people showing up to a specific street. That was not an advertised festival put on by the local merchants as a way to showcase their street and their business.

Remember, the $45,000 isn't just for police. It also includes the street closure, which requires Police to direct traffic and city crews to erect barriers and detour signs. It requires additional emergency services to be on site, which is necessary whenever there are 130,000 people in one place. It requires City Transit to alter their routes for the afternoon, including advertising which routes will be changed for the day, and where the alternate stops will be; and then installation of said alternate stops.

In the ariticle it says the vendor charge is $250, and that there are 600 vendors. Well that math works out to $150,000, which is more than enough to pay the $45,000 to the City. And, the $150,000 doesn't include all the extra profit the business are taking in compared to a regular Sunday, when there aren't 130,000 people walking by.

[wild wild west]

My concern isn't specifically for Lilac, which I think can absorb these costs, so much as it is for the future of festivals in general in Calgary. How about smaller festivals that already struggle to draw attendees? What about possible new festivals starting up? We should be encouraging festivals to thrive, and for new ones to start up. If the festival turns an insane profit, great! All the more reason to have more of them!

[Stang]

I think in general, having an "X police officers to number of attendees" rule is arbitrary at best.

I believe that the Folk Fest asked for (and received, as far as I know) an exemption to the standard ratio. Somehow having a wall of police to prevent hippies from rioting by tossing their festival chairs around was deemed unnecessary.

That being said, large outfits like the Folk Fest have their own security volunteers that can handle the majority of the minor issues that do arise, and can radio the police if things get out of hand.

For the Lilac Festival - it sounds like vendor booth revenue can more than cover the cost. But still - is a firm ratio necessary? Can't each event be reviewed properly by the emergency services to see what coverage is necessary and proceed logically?

Sure, a couple of ambulances (or even contracted paramedics like St. John's Ambulance people) should be present simply due to the sheer number of people - someone is bound to get heatstroke or worse, and some cops nearby to address any issues. But seriously - there's a big difference between a meandering street festival and, well, concerts and such.

[Surrealplaces]

I understand what you're saying, but I think the difference between the Lilac festival and the Red Mile, is that there is no organization to the Red Mile. That was a bunch of people showing up to a specific street. That was not an advertised festival put on by the local merchants as a way to showcase their street and their business.

Remember, the $45,000 isn't just for police. It also includes the street closure, which requires Police to direct traffic and city crews to erect barriers and detour signs. It requires additional emergency services to be on site, which is necessary whenever there are 130,000 people in one place. It requires City Transit to alter their routes for the afternoon, including advertising which routes will be changed for the day, and where the alternate stops will be; and then installation of said alternate stops.

In the ariticle it says the vendor charge is $250, and that there are 600 vendors. Well that math works out to $150,000, which is more than enough to pay the $45,000 to the City. And, the $150,000 doesn't include all the extra profit the business are taking in compared to a regular Sunday, when there aren't 130,000 people walking by.

I have no issue with the city charging some sort of fee. The festival does cost the city some money, but let's face it the bulk of the costs are the police (at $93.00/hour/officer) that's $75,000, for a crowd of 100k for 8 hours. The figure quoted in the Herald of $45,000 is from the rained out festival 2008, where they only had 40,000 people.

Did they really need 130 cops there this year? Of course not, but that's where the bulk of the costs are going. If they even changed the bylaw to be 1 officer/2000 people for festivals, that would be a good middle ground.

[bluewaterandsunshine]

Just a query. I don't know much about the law and politics.

Can't the city of Calgary subsidize the cost? Maybe half of the cost? Like maybe pay $45/hour/officer (from $93/hour/officer) and the organization pays the rest, for example?

Isn't there a some kind of "Culture, the Arts and Recreation" fund somewhere stashed in city hall? Or is all the money going to road constructions?

The City of Calgary should show its support to its constituency. The Lilac Festival is a tourist attraction already. This is just anecdotal though. I've spoken to a lot of participants (booth-ers?) and they told me that a lot of the crowd are people from other cities and provinces who came to Calgary just for the festival.

But therein lies the dilemma. If the City of Calgary subsidizes (sponsors) one event, then it MUST sponsor other events as well. Oh, well, I don't know. But the least city hall can do is NOT charge the organization more.

Anyway, this comment is after the fact. I don't know what happened to the financial aspect, but I surely had fun at the festival!

PS. About policing. There was an incident at the festival. Mr MMA kicked (allegedly) a guy on his head. Nosebleed Guy had an alarming nosebleed! So, yeah, we need cops because these serious things really do happen. (Yes. This is serious for me because I'm a pacifist. :))

I know. Nobody said anything about not having cops/security. he he