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View Full Version : Stinson School Lofts | ? | 4 fl | U/C



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Duckyboy
Jul 12, 2011, 9:44 PM
Looks good on all the naysayers. I guess there is a market for $300K+ lofts in this part of the city after all.

So boys, how do you like your crow served?

As stated before, I'm so glad to be wrong! Can't wait to watch the process unfold just down the street.

DC1983
Jul 13, 2011, 11:49 AM
As stated before, I'm so glad to be wrong! Can't wait to watch the process unfold just down the street.

As am I! I spent many years in/around the Stinson hood (lived on Webber for a short while). I've seen crack-houses turn into family homes over the last decade. I knew a couple pioneers who bought up houses on Grant.
What I'm trying to get at is that I'm also happy this is (seemingly) happening. This hood needs a good boost like these lofts!

mattgrande
Jul 13, 2011, 12:01 PM
I walked past yesterday, it looked like they're doing sewer work.

I'm surprised to see so many Stinsonites! I wonder if I've met any of you without knowing it... If you see a big fat guy with a big fat dog, it's probably me.

thistleclub
Jul 21, 2011, 5:05 PM
Canadians May Team On Hotel Niagara Rehab (http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/news/2011/07/20/canadian-interests-may-team-on-hotel.html) [James Fink, Buffalo Business First, July 20 2011]

Three months after being acquired by a Canadian investor, plans for the historic Hotel Niagara are being tweaked including a revised ownership structure.

While Jamil Kara, the Vancouver resident who supplied the winning bid for the Niagara Falls landmark, will still be involved in the project, he may be taking on a new partner — Hamilton developer Harry Stinson, who was outbid by Kara in the April 26 auction. Stinson confirmed he is talking with Kara about working on the Hotel Niagara renovation project. Stinson, in fact, was the one who told Kara about the Hotel Niagara auction.

“We’ve had some friendly conversations,” Stinson said. “We have been and continue to be jointly working on this project. This isn’t an asset play by a bunch of bankers. This is about two people who understand the iconic stature of the Hotel Niagara.” Kara couldn’t be reached for comment. Tentative plans call for the 12-story, 145,000-square-foot site to renovated into a mix of upscale apartments and a boutique hotel, although the final design is months away, Stinson said.

Kara, in April, pegged the hotel’s development price tag in the $10 million range. He also predicted it would take at least two years to completely renovate the building. “It will be no less than that,” Stinson said. “But, remember we are still in the exploration stage for many of the elements. But, we do recognize that this is a heritage building.”

The nearly century-old building has been vacant for the better part of decade and been subject to plans by other out-of-town development groups. None of those plans ever materialized for a number of reasons. Among the hotel’s legacy was its “Who’s Who” list of guests including Frank Sinatra, Marilyn Monroe and Dean Martin.

SteelTown
Jul 26, 2011, 2:11 AM
D__6PxAcRN4

thistleclub
Aug 11, 2011, 3:26 PM
Fun Fact: A glass of Dr Pepper contains 28 mg of caffeine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3pRlW9GVN0

thistleclub
Aug 30, 2011, 6:31 PM
"The perimeter of the south school building has now been adjusted with the addition of two southern sunrooms." (http://stinsonschooljournal.ca/photographs/391-sunroom-construction)

realcity
Aug 30, 2011, 6:39 PM
that guy at 1:05 is an awesome front-end loader driver

Dwils01
Aug 31, 2011, 11:12 PM
Nice vid Steeltown.
Very interesting to watch.

Duckyboy
Sep 1, 2011, 5:12 PM
I walked past yesterday, it looked like they're doing sewer work.

I'm surprised to see so many Stinsonites! I wonder if I've met any of you without knowing it... If you see a big fat guy with a big fat dog, it's probably me.

I've seen a few big guys with dogs, but they don't look like your picture. I'll try and take note... you probably walk your dog by my house often; I have a pretty recognizable house in the neighborhood.

If you see a shorter guy with dark-rimmed glasses who always looks intense and in a rush, it's probably me; stop me and say hi!

Duckyboy (Ryan)

thistleclub
Oct 7, 2011, 8:02 PM
http://stinsonschooljournal.ca

BCTed
Oct 7, 2011, 11:52 PM
http://stinsonschooljournal.ca

"The New Condo Show" link from that site: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3wCsjYEGtk

True to Stinson form, there is a fairly glaring spelling error in the end credits ("preceeding") ---- for the record, I did not actually watch the whole thing.

Harry does not look like he is in great shape these days. I feel kind of bad for him.

Duckyboy
Oct 11, 2011, 5:31 PM
I just received this email from The Stinson Team (10/11/11):
We are pleased to announce a unique new RRSP-eligible investment program,
paying 12% interest, 1 year term. The funds are fully mortgage secured.

For further information, please contact Diane or Natasha at 289-389-1377 or by return e-mail.


Regards,

The Stinson Team
289.389.1377
Stinson Developments
200 Stinson St
Hamilton Ontario

Unreal... this guy is just a schemer through and through... and still barely any work done on the lofts...

It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. I really, really wanted him to pull it through and have the lofts become a real success. But mid-size loft-conversions DO NOT take 2+ years to complete if you're on the up & up.

thistleclub
Oct 11, 2011, 5:44 PM
Rebirth of Hotel Niagara Hinges On Public Funds (http://www.lawjournalbuffalo.com/news/article/current/2011/09/15/103401/rebirth-of-hotel-niagara-hinges-on-public-funds) (James Fink, Buffalo Law Journal, Sept 15, 2011)

Hamilton developer Harry Stinson has taken control of the Hotel Niagara's redevelopment effort, with a pledge to bring the vacant, 12-story building back to its former glory.

For Stinson, who has tackled several historic redevelopment projects in his native Southern Ontario, the Hotel Niagara could be the first of several local investments.

He said he is working on a possible redevelopment plan for the Hotel Niagara, but he is keeping it close to the vest for now, adding, "The building is too important to be talking about in terms of vague visions."

He did say his plans are directly tied to financing for the project. He is already negotiating with USA Niagara Development Corp. on a public-sector incentive package.


On a related note:

**MEDIA ADVISORY**

STATE AND CITY TO ACCEPT PROPOSALS FOR KEY DEVELOPMENT SITE IN NIAGARA FALLS, NY
Announcement Planned to Launch RFP Process

WHAT:
Empire State Development, USA Niagara Development Corporation and the City ofNiagara Falls will hold a press conference for the public and press to learn about a key development site in Niagara Falls, NY. The site is ready for development and USAN will be accepting requests for proposals. It has the potential to be the first significant new build in the city in more than a decade and is expected to attract developer-interest statewide and in Southern Ontario for its key location and the exciting redevelopment opportunities in NiagaraFalls, NY.

WHO:
Empire State Development Regional President Sam Hoyt
Mayor Paul Dyster, City of Niagara Falls
Senator Mark Grisanti (invited, not confirmed)
Senator George Maziarz
Assemblyman John Ceretto
USA Niagara Development Corporation President Chris Schoepflin

WHEN:
Tuesday, October 11, 2011 3:30 p.m.

WHERE:
Old Falls Street (between Rainbow Blvd and the entrance of Niagara Falls State Park)
Niagara Falls, NY

UPDATE:

RFP Issued for Development of Key Site in Niagara Falls, NY
Proposals can include plans for hotel, retail and housing development, among others

Empire State Development, USA Niagara Development Corporation and the City of Niagara Falls today announced that USAN and the City is issuing a request for proposals (RFP) for development of a key site in downtown Niagara Falls, New York. Proposal submissions are due December 2, 2011.

“This is a tremendous opportunity for an able developer to make Niagara Falls an even greater place for tourists, residents and workers,” said Empire State Development President, CEO and Commissioner Kenneth Adams. “We have made a strong investment in downtown Niagara Falls and we’re seeing the results. Economic indicators, such as hotel occupancy rates, foot traffic and visitation, are all up. This is a perfect time for someone with the right vision to get involved in the redevelopment of Niagara Falls.”

The site is located at 310 Rainbow Boulevard, at the northwest corner of Old Falls Street, 300 feet from the entrance to Niagara Falls State Park, which enjoys approximately eight million annual visitors. Totaling 0.88 acres, the site was recently acquired by the City of Niagara Falls in conjunction with a larger effort to develop the Niagara County Community College‐sponsored Culinary Institute in a portion of the former Rainbow Centre Mall. As part of the Culinary Institute project and in cooperation with the city, $8 million in upgrades will be made to an adjoining 1,600‐space, city‐owned parking ramp. Direct access to the ramp is available from the subject site via an elevator lobby that fronts on Rainbow Boulevard. The site also benefits from a number of investments along the recently‐restored Old Falls Street corridor, including $12 million in street improvements, the award‐winning Conference Center Niagara Falls and the Seneca Niagara Casino complex.

“Our research is suggesting reasonable unmet demand along Old Falls Street for at least one major upper-upscale hotel, considerable need for new retail and food and beverage facilities, as well as new residential units,” said ESD Regional President Sam Hoyt. “Our goal for a project on this site is a mix of urban uses.”

durandy
Oct 11, 2011, 6:40 PM
it really is sad to watch this. It might have worked in the 1890s to disappear and reappear in a new town with a boatload of promises, but you only need to do a little bit of searching to know the risk of a Stinson investment.

BCTed
Oct 13, 2011, 12:42 AM
I just received this email from The Stinson Team (10/11/11):
We are pleased to announce a unique new RRSP-eligible investment program,
paying 12% interest, 1 year term. The funds are fully mortgage secured.

For further information, please contact Diane or Natasha at 289-389-1377 or by return e-mail.


Regards,

The Stinson Team
289.389.1377
Stinson Developments
200 Stinson St
Hamilton Ontario

Unreal... this guy is just a schemer through and through... and still barely any work done on the lofts...

It's almost laughable if it wasn't so sad. I really, really wanted him to pull it through and have the lofts become a real success. But mid-size loft-conversions DO NOT take 2+ years to complete if you're on the up & up.

You apparently are not interested in a 12% return.

The hypnotist
Nov 11, 2011, 6:15 PM
The Stinson team is obviously doing a syndicated mortgage for all the soft costs of the development. Let's hope he can sell the units otherwise all that money will be lost.

Duckyboy
Nov 11, 2011, 6:52 PM
You apparently are not interested in a 12% return.

From the kind of person heading up this development? I'd shy away, I think. I hope I'm proven wrong, but things just seem so sketchy with this whole development.

LikeHamilton
Nov 25, 2011, 3:14 AM
Stinson climbing ‘steep hill’ to complete namesake condo project

November 24, 2011

Harry Stinson’s $15-million condominium project at the former Stinson School is several months behind schedule, but the controversial developer vows he’ll have the building opened by next August.

He says financing the project has been difficult and he has had to turn to private lenders.

“The sales are fine. But financing anything in Hamilton is a challenge,” Stinson says.

The 120-year-old building on Stinson Street is designated a heritage property, which also complicates the renovation work that so far has mostly involved external restorations.

Stinson built a reputation as the “Condo King” in Toronto and came to Hamilton in 2007 with some big development proposals that didn’t materialize, including buying the Royal Connaught Hotel. Most recently he became partners with Jamil Kara on the multimillion-dollar restoration of the historic Hotel Niagara in Niagara Falls, New York.

But he says he has not taken his focus away from the Stinson condo project. He says he was hoping to have it done by now but “it’s a very steep hill to keep these things going whether you are in Toronto or Hamilton. There are so many factors that are beyond your control. So you just keep plugging away.”

The delay, he says, is still “within our flexibility dates” in contracts signed with condo buyers.

And he is committed to finishing it.

“I can’t walk away from a project that has Stinson School written on it.”

http://www.thespec.com/print/article/630211

BCTed
Nov 25, 2011, 4:37 AM
From the kind of person heading up this development? I'd shy away, I think. I hope I'm proven wrong, but things just seem so sketchy with this whole development.

I was just kidding. I agree with you. I do not have faith in Harry Stinson.

Duckyboy
Nov 25, 2011, 7:09 PM
I was just kidding. I agree with you. I do not have faith in Harry Stinson.

Gotcha! It's always hard to detect tone and inflection online... I have a hard enough time in the real world, let alone online!

LikeHamilton
Nov 28, 2011, 1:24 PM
Raise The Hammer

Harry Stinson: Stinson School Underway, Fully Occupied by Mid-2012

By Harry Stinson
Published November 28, 2011

Revitalization
On Monday, November 21, I paid a quarter million dollars ($228,012 to be exact) to the City of Hamilton for various fees and permits for the Stinson School, (to the happy surprise of the Planning and Building Departments).

On Friday, November 25, I picked up my morning Hamilton Spectator and read that the Stinson School is "months behind schedule" and financially floundering.

Hold the Press! HUGE story!! A building project in Hamilton that is "months behind..."

God forbid.

I would have thought the story should have been that the project is proceeding and is actually contributing to the City, (rather than whining for multi-million dollar handouts from the near-depleted Future Fund).

Consider the impact of such media coverage on purchasers, suppliers, trades, site staff, neighbours and even the folks at City Hall who are prioritizing which paperwork to move through the system.

"Months behind ... climbing a 'steep hill'".

The Stinson School is indeed underway and will be not only finished but fully occupied in mid-2012. That's only three years from 'inspiration to occupation', which is pretty good turnaround for a major heritage rejuvenation in Hamilton, turning a non-tax-paying school into millions of dollars in future property tax revenues.

Projects like The Stinson School project are a darn sight better deal for Hamilton than the Lister Block or City Hall (and the list goes on...). Unjustified media skepticism is hardly in the public interest, nor motivating to other prospective builders.

15 years ago, another Torstar publication mocked the Candy Factory Lofts project on Queen West in Toronto.

This time, my name is even on the building and I'm not going to give the "squelchers" (to borrow a phrase from Richard Florida) the last laugh.

http://www.raisethehammer.org/blog/2335/harry_stinson:_stinson_school_underway_fully_occupied_by_mid-2012

BCTed
Nov 30, 2011, 12:00 PM
Mr. Stinson's apparent boasting about having paid required fees (which represent a few percentage points of the total construction cost) and his fairly harsh reaction to a relatively innocuously worded article seems to me to be a sign that things are not going as smoothly as he would want us to believe.

A delay is a delay --- drawing comparisons to other projects that are delayed or apparently not as good a deal for Hamilton does not make this one look any better. I do not know how big the official delay is, but he had previously stated that he was aiming for fall 2011 occupancy (http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/251519--all-systems-go-for-condos-at-stinson-school) and is now apparently aiming for August 2012.

Consider the impact of such media coverage on purchasers, suppliers, trades, site staff, neighbours and even the folks at City Hall who are prioritizing which paperwork to move through the system.
Let me consider the impact. I am not sure what impact this will have on purchasers, suppliers, trades, or site staff. As long as they are getting paid, what do they care? Also, what will this article do to neighbours? Put them in a bad frame of mind? And if he has indeed paid his permit fees, isn't that enough impetus for the "folks at City Hall" to process the paperwork in a timely fashion?

drpgq
Dec 30, 2011, 8:04 PM
I haven't been by the site for a while. Anyone know if much is going on a daily basis?

bigguy1231
Dec 30, 2011, 8:42 PM
I haven't been by the site for a while. Anyone know if much is going on a daily basis?

I go by there every day and other than them doing the roof a month or so ago, there doesn't seem to be much activity. At least that's the way it looks from the outside. They could be doing work to the interior.

mattgrande
Dec 30, 2011, 11:21 PM
I don't see many vehicles coming and going, but I do sometimes hear equipment running when I walk past. Who knows?

thistleclub
Dec 31, 2011, 5:47 PM
Was stinsonschooljournal.ca yanked because of GoDaddy's SOPA stance?

Duckyboy
Jan 3, 2012, 5:05 PM
Was stinsonschooljournal.ca yanked because of GoDaddy's SOPA stance?

Perhaps I'm out of the loop, but what's the issue with SOPA, GoDaddy & the stinsonschooljournal.ca??

thistleclub
Jan 3, 2012, 8:21 PM
stinsonschooljournal.ca redirects to a GoDaddy 404, and last week GoDaddy saw a wave of domain name transfers on the heels of its pro-SOPA stance. Seemed like one possible explanation for why that site would be down. (Although, looking at that page again, the domain appears to be for sale.)

mattgrande
Mar 23, 2012, 1:51 AM
Someone from the Stinson Neighbourhood Association (can't remember who) mentioned that they had spoken to Harry. He had said that they're on track for occupancy in November.

Pearlstreet
Mar 23, 2012, 4:13 PM
stinsonschooljournal.ca redirects to a GoDaddy 404, and last week GoDaddy saw a wave of domain name transfers on the heels of its pro-SOPA stance. Seemed like one possible explanation for why that site would be down. (Although, looking at that page again, the domain appears to be for sale.)


Harry mentioned in an article I read that he took the journal and school sites down to complete a book available for sale once closer to completion.

This does sounds like it is taking longer than expected, but look at the scale of this project!

mattgrande
May 2, 2012, 11:03 PM
I noticed they're digging a hole there, in the back. It looked like progress had stopped, so it's good to see.

Duckyboy
May 3, 2012, 5:19 PM
I noticed they're digging a hole there, in the back. It looked like progress had stopped, so it's good to see.

No kidding... everytime I drive/walk by, I get mixed feelings about the place.

I want it to succeed & be great, but the optics are just not good at all... at times it almost seems as though the project is abandoned.

Jathan
May 4, 2012, 4:52 AM
I haven't gone by in awhile, but it seems quiet.

Some things just seem strange...

They had that cool journal, and then it just stopped because they were going to sell a book?

Looks like every unit that was for sale near christmas is still for sale now.

When I went by it didn't look like anything was going on.

How can they push other developments like the grand, and the Niagara hotel when there is no end is sight for the lofts?

I hope they finish the lofts, as it was a really cool project, but something just isn't right...

Dr Awesomesauce
May 4, 2012, 7:45 PM
Nobody in their right mind is gonna give this guy money no matter how great the project looks. Don't let the Rolls Royce fool you, he's got no money...full stop.

MeIsThomas
May 24, 2012, 6:57 PM
I just saw drove by the Stinson School for the first time. It seems like there was construction going on. There were a bunch of people walking around in and out of the building and a lot of the windows were open I am assuming cause it is so hot today and the probably don't have a/c while it is under construction. Here is a picture I took. There is noone on this side of the building but there were quite a few people on the other side.

http://i47.tinypic.com/2lml83r.jpg

Dr Awesomesauce
May 25, 2012, 7:46 AM
Maybe some potential buyers / investors sniffing around. That's my guess anyway.

mattgrande
Jun 6, 2012, 10:49 PM
This might be old news to many of you, but on May 30, the Stinson facebook page put a bunch construction pictures up: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150967468976998&set=a.10150302118521998.388698.158307566997&type=1&permPage=1

SteelTown
Jun 6, 2012, 10:53 PM
Forgot to mention Stinson got a large building permit approved, in the millions I think 7 millions.

Dr Awesomesauce
Jun 7, 2012, 12:35 AM
Sounds like really good news.

Could somebody post those pics please? Some of us [or maybe just me] don't use FB.

Cheers.

CaptainKirk
Jun 7, 2012, 1:18 AM
Sounds like really good news.

Could somebody post those pics please? Some of us [or maybe just me] don't use FB.

Cheers.


http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/320557_10150372611076998_1563697261_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/s720x720/149469_10150967468976998_1607699192_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/550371_10150967478676998_958868283_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/542430_10150967482006998_1415723029_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/598870_10150967482321998_158307566997_12088179_786910824_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s720x720/540268_10150967482551998_1412906686_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/550726_10150967482711998_1100089342_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/540479_10150967616686998_637954571_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/480806_10150967617251998_376198062_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/270719_10150302118656998_3654007_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/263464_10150302118766998_5301204_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264997_10150302162861998_1649453_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263472_10150302163231998_1776935_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/269757_10150302163306998_2788703_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/264007_10150302163401998_6299287_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268652_10150302163481998_3107474_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268472_10150302163571998_1790276_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/264272_10150302163661998_3765490_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/312294_10150371023696998_1527727580_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315398_10150372610456998_618020978_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/320579_10150372610541998_1314605587_n.jpg
http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/320960_10150372610631998_668944529_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/s720x720/316800_10150372610761998_130505670_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/294010_10150372610881998_295576469_n.jpg

Dr Awesomesauce
Jun 7, 2012, 2:00 AM
Thanks!

SteelTown
Jun 8, 2012, 1:09 AM
Forgot to mention Stinson got a large building permit approved, in the millions I think 7 millions.

$7,624,495.00

Permit # 11-118654

markbarbera
Jun 8, 2012, 11:48 AM
$7,624,495.00

Permit # 11-118654

Hmm when I search that permit number it is referencing a permit to convert single family home to multiple unit dwelling. A search for 200 Stinson returns this info:

Permit Type Status
11-113123-00   Non Residential   Partial Demolition Issued
Description
To demolish the existing underground coal bunker area at the basement level of the existing vacant school.
Permit Type Status
11-121861-00   Apartments   Alteration Issued
Description
Alterations and addition to former school into a sprinklered 4-storey residential building with 66 dwellings units.

Building permit query doesn't return dollar values - where did you find those numbers? It would be useful to know for future lookups.

urban_planner
Jun 8, 2012, 3:09 PM
Perhaps the 7 million has something to do with this

Hi,

Thank you for your interest in receiving news about investment properties being currently listed with Harry Stinson Realty. 259 Aberdeen Ave. It's Location! Location! Location!
Multi-Residential property in Durand Neighbourhood. Five units with option for sixth unit in basement.



RENT ROLL


Expenses:

Unit 1. $650

Unit 2. $665

Unit 3. $541

Unit 4. $640

Unit 5. $650

Unit 6. $600




Potential income

Insurance $793.80

Tax property $4526.34

Hydro $4404.33

Maintenance and repair $1250.00

Union gas $1943.34

Reliance $189.42






There will be a property viewing Saturday June,02 between 2p.m. and 4p.m. Realtor G.Shawn Maher will be available to answer any questions that you have about the property. To receive futher information about this listing please contact HARRY STINSON REALTY CORP. BRKG at 289.389.0605. Property information is also available by email request.


Best Regards,
Stinson Realty Team


Stinson School Inc.
200 Stinson St
Hamilton Ontario
Canada

This was an E-mail I got a couple of weeks ago. Its slightly altered in the layout due to formatting issue when copy and pasting


On another note I was looking off the brown earlier today and there were several work pick up trucks at the school!

mattgrande
Jun 8, 2012, 6:22 PM
Yeah, there's definitely people working there whenever I walk past during the day. It seems to be moving slowly, but it's hard to tell since it's all interior work.

Pearlstreet
Aug 1, 2012, 6:15 PM
A new center elevator shaft and connection between the two buildings can now be seen. This slow tortois looks like a winner to me :)

New website is up with pics of ongoing progress too!
www.stinsonschool.com

SteelTown
Aug 2, 2012, 4:48 PM
"The Stinson School set for occupancy in only 6 months and with 75% SOLD"

BCTed
Aug 3, 2012, 3:17 AM
"The Stinson School set for occupancy in only 6 months and with 75% SOLD"

"Harry Stinson’s $15-million condominium project at the former Stinson School is several months behind schedule, but the controversial developer vows he’ll have the building opened by next August."

From: http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/630211--stinson-climbing-a-steep-hill

And note on the sign in the picture accompanying the article that the project was "75% sold" back then..

Dr Awesomesauce
Aug 3, 2012, 12:16 PM
Yeah, until people start moving furniture in I'm going assume nothing of any substance is happening.

And what's with his penchant for dress shirts and turtlenecks? To say he's unappealing would be a serious understatement.

Duckyboy
Aug 3, 2012, 1:42 PM
Yeah, until people start moving furniture in I'm going assume nothing of any substance is happening.

And what's with his penchant for dress shirts and turtlenecks? To say he's unappealing would be a serious understatement.

I 100% agree with the statement re: people moving in. Until I see that, this thing is dead in the water as far as I'm concerned... I hope I'm wrong, but the optics are not good.

lucasmascotto
Aug 3, 2012, 2:48 PM
I blame the city for this one. Its so difficult to develop anything in this city without cowering down to stupid little strict policies and rules. Not to mention the fact that Hamilton is a hard-sell, because of the reputation others hold about the area. Sigh...I'm confident in the fact that Harry Stinson will complete the project, but also sure that he won't want to be returning here for a long time. Which reminds me, whatever happened to his Hamilton Grand condo project? When is that thing starting?

lucasmascotto
Aug 3, 2012, 4:06 PM
I'm not too sure about the validility of this chart but I found it when I was scrolling through Google about some Hamilton condo projects. It also answers my question on my post above.

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?docid=1-S2pvKLg_305oOKawsDfgniLJPPaj9caxEfammo

thistleclub
Aug 3, 2012, 4:09 PM
whatever happened to his Hamilton Grand condo project? When is that thing starting?

The Hamiltonian, January 12, 2012 (http://www.thehamiltonian.net/2012/01/checking-in-with-harry-stinson.html):

"The Hamilton Grand (Main and John St.) project is back online. Sales are resuming January 15th, with a significant number of existing sales in place. Construction anticipated to start summer 2012, occupancy summer 2013."

The Grand website (http://www.hamiltongrand.ca/) may not have been updated. It shows 5 of 170 units sold.

See also SSP Hamilton's The Hamilton Grand | ? | 6 fl | Proposal (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=162166) thread.

markbarbera
Aug 3, 2012, 4:25 PM
I live a few doors away from Stinson School. I can vouch that work is going on at the site on a daily basis. There is no doubt that this is far behind the original timetable for the project, but lengthy delays are not unusual for a historical building's institutional-to-residential conversion of this size and complexity.

Personally, I wish this project would finish up sooner than later, not so much to clean up a protracted construction site near my home as to finally shut up the squelchers that habitually post their scorn for this project on this thread. When construction wasn't going on, they were saying it will never be done. Now that construction is in full swing, they are saying it probably won't get finished. When it is finished, they will probably complain about it not being done to their liking.

lucasmascotto
Aug 3, 2012, 9:41 PM
Thank you very much @markbarbera for showing me the start date of the Hamilton Grand slated for this summer, but I've driven by the construction site and haven't seen any action whatsoever. Are my eyes and pessimism deceiving me? If I'm wrong could someone take some pictures and post them on that thread -- thanks. :)

According to that interview link the Stinson School Lofts are slated to be completed by the Fall of 2012, which is very pleasing to hear. But as one of my previous comments stated, Harry Stinson, I feel has lost his hope in Hamilton, partly because of the troubles from City Hall, but also the struggles we the citizens have placed on him during his time spent here. Our doubts and fears have really hit him hard, and I'm starting to feel as is after the completion of the Hamilton Grand, he'll be gone forever. :S

I am not sure what you mean by "a Hamilton context". From what I have learned in being here 4 years, perhaps the intended question is "will the projects be completed?" In that context, yes the Stinson School and the Hamilton Grand will be completed. I do wish that I could have had the opportunity to work on the Connaught..... but the jury seems to be still on that situation.

It is worth noting that the Hotel Niagara was the flagship hotel of the United Hotel chain, which also operated the Connaught. With regard to 'persuading others', to be candid, I am quite exhausted with the process of convincing [a certain sector of] Hamiltonians not just of the potential value in the City and in my projects, but more important, that the projects will actually be completed. If I only had a nickel for every conversation about the unfinished loft project across from the LCBO on Dundurn (apparently proof positive that nothing will ever be completed) and/or about how Hamilton City Hall is directly responsible for everything that goes wrong or does not proceed or goes on in the City...Hamiltonians (especially the "lifers") express their 'passion' for the city, and their hope that things are/will be changing.... but they don't seem to really believe it will happen. Significantly, most of our buyers are from outside Hamilton, who see the potential, and the future in downtown Hamilton..... and will be the ones who will economically benefit . http://www.thehamiltonian.net/2012/01/checking-in-with-harry-stinson.html

Beedok
Aug 3, 2012, 10:15 PM
I do often get that vibe that everyone complains nothing happens in Hamilton, then when ever anything does happen they insist it will either be a failure or never be completed. :(

thistleclub
Aug 3, 2012, 10:34 PM
I think that the skepticism has less to do with Harry Stinson and more to do with the parade of concept drawings that have broken the tedium of 30 years of largely unbroken status quo downtown/lower city.

I'm eager to see the School close/open. But I think Harry hasn't helped quell the squelchers. The fact is that this is considerably more ambitious and complex than his other significant retrofit, the Candy Factory, which was basically unbroken space waiting to be divvied up. The Barnum-like hype he slathered on post-One King West probably didn't calibrate expectations toward the realistic, either.

Wait and see.

Dr Awesomesauce
Aug 4, 2012, 12:48 AM
I live a few doors away from Stinson School. I can vouch that work is going on at the site on a daily basis. There is no doubt that this is far behind the original timetable for the project, but lengthy delays are not unusual for a historical building's institutional-to-residential conversion of this size and complexity.

Personally, I wish this project would finish up sooner than later, not so much to clean up a protracted construction site near my home as to finally shut up the squelchers that habitually post their scorn for this project on this thread. When construction wasn't going on, they were saying it will never be done. Now that construction is in full swing, they are saying it probably won't get finished. When it is finished, they will probably complain about it not being done to their liking.

Oh yes, thanks markbarbera for setting the record straight. Hmmm yeah...conversion...historical building...complexity... blah blah blah.

He's an embarrassment. He's got no money to fund the projects he proposes. Remember the 100-storey tower next to the Connaught? Brilliant. He's a fraud.

I hope this project gets done. I hope people don't lose their deposits. I hope he doesn't screw this wonderful old school by converting it to residential. Finally, I hope he fades into obscurity upon its completion.

BTW I can only assume Stinson's a card-carrying Liberal for you to be jumping to his defence like that. That is how you decide whom you like and dislike right?

BCTed
Aug 4, 2012, 11:44 AM
markbarbera wants Harry Stinson to succeed primarily because he wants to win a flame war on the Internet. Wunderbar.

I love that the selling point listed for the Mansion Lofts on http://www.stinsonschool.com/floorplans.html is the "Great Value View of School & Escarpment". Man, would I love to have a great value view of the Stinson School.

The site is still loaded with spelling errors ("Excarpment", "curent", "center" on the Floor Plans page alone)

mattgrande
Aug 4, 2012, 5:00 PM
I hope this project gets done. I hope people don't lose their deposits. I hope he doesn't screw this wonderful old school by converting it to residential. Finally, I hope he fades into obscurity upon its completion.

So you hope that someone who's invested millions of dollars in Hamilton completes this one project, then leaves? I don't understand...

thistleclub
Aug 4, 2012, 6:18 PM
Another HS piece in yesterday's Toronto Star (http://www.thestar.com/living/realestate/article/1236054--harry-stinson-goes-back-to-school):

”While most loft conversions are often fraught with unforeseen complications, Stinson and his partners have access to the original drawings created by A.W. Peene, a prominent Hamilton architect. ICON Architects are overseeing the conversion.”

Can’t top a good headline (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/real-estate/harry-stinson-goes-back-to-school/article4294639/) …or a good bench ( http://www.thestar.com/living/realestate/article/674478--lofty-visions-the-return-of-harry-stinson).

Dr Awesomesauce
Aug 5, 2012, 2:42 AM
So you hope that someone who's invested THOUSANDS of dollars in Hamilton completes this one project, then leaves? I don't understand...

Fixed it for ya. It's funny though, the way he talks you'd swear his investments were in the tens or even hundreds of millions but alas...

markbarbera
Aug 6, 2012, 5:24 PM
As I walked past the site today I noticed a lot of construction work going on inside the two homes across from the school on Stinson between Ontario and Grant. It looked like mainly drywalling going on when I went by. These are the homes that Stinson had purchased shortly after purchasing the school and will house the condo units referred to on the website as the Mansions on Stinson. When we first moved into the neighbourhood they were sketchy rooming houses so it is great to see them being restored as condos.

Duckyboy
Aug 7, 2012, 5:20 PM
markbarbera wants Harry Stinson to succeed primarily because he wants to win a flame war on the Internet. Wunderbar.

I love that the selling point listed for the Mansion Lofts on http://www.stinsonschool.com/floorplans.html is the "Great Value View of School & Escarpment". Man, would I love to have a great value view of the Stinson School.

The site is still loaded with spelling errors ("Excarpment", "curent", "center" on the Floor Plans page alone)

I know... that line is hilarious! Wow... I can have a view of a school? Really? Well sign me up!

It just seems to reek of snake oil... hope I'm wrong, though.

SteelTown
Aug 9, 2012, 1:13 AM
Wind back in Stinson’s sails with projects back on track


http://www.thespec.com/news/business/article/776678--wind-back-in-stinson-s-sails-with-projects-back-on-track

Developer Harry Stinson is trying to tidy his Hamilton to-do list: Stinson School lofts, then the Hamilton Grand Hotel at John and Main streets.

“I’m ready to put this behind me,” he said.

Certainly, the Stinson School project is well on its way, building permits in place, construction workers on site and sales, well, sales are “stable”.

Stinson said the lofts are about 75 per cent sold — 55 out of 75 units — about the same level as a year or so ago and should be ready to move in by February, 2013.

He said the sell is easy for out-of-towners in love with the old, established residential neighbourhood, the potential for fabulous ambience in the renovated school.

It was originally built in 1894 by architect Alfred Peene, also responsible for Hamilton’s Carnegie library.

Many elements of the original building have been retained either for use later or incorporated into the design. The original slate chalkboards have been cut down into smaller pieces which will be framed and hung at the door of each loft, a reminder of the past while serving as a reminding tool.

Despite all of these details, and history, sales to Hamiltonians are slow.

“Here (customers) are a lot more skeptical,” he said. “People from Toronto and all around come here and love the architecture. You can tell who the out-of-towners are ... Hamilton people come in and say ‘Well, have you sold any units yet?”

He does admit having a finished show loft would help. The school should be completely enclosed by October, he said, allowing for the finishing work to take place inside.

So far, the entire building is still torn apart. Two townhouses across the street Stinson had purchased are lumped into the development and may provide the earliest peak at what is possible. Construction photos can be viewed at stinsonschool.com.

The units range in price from $179,000 to $499,000.

Stinson came to Hamilton about five years ago, with a reputation as the condo king, due in no small part to his widely acclaimed conversion of an former candy factory to a series of lofts in 1993 in downtown Toronto.

Since he came to Hamilton though, he’s had a series of struggles to get the Stinson School and hotel projects off the ground.

It’s been four years since Stinson first embarked on the school lofts conversion — four long years in which he also took time out to take a stab at trying to breathe life back into the Royal Connaught, which faltered due to lack of financing, as did his Hamilton Grand Hotel project.

Just this week, Stinson called on architect Drew Hauser to dust off those plans and scale them back, to a $20-million, six-storey, 150-unit long-term stay hotel.

“However, the existing height limit would allow a taller building and if sales are good, maybe we will extend the tower,” he said.

“Financing is not easy to get for anything these days, not in Hamilton and not at the $30-million level.”

The new vision for the Hamilton Grand is to have an “urban lifestyle option” that offers individually owned furnished condo units with breakfast and housekeeping managed in a rental program with commercial space on the first floor.

Glen Norton, the city’s director of urban renewal, was a bit disappointed Stinson had scaled down the project, but he said it’s far better than the derelict lot that it is now.

Norton said the hotel’s focus on the three months to a year market rather than the weekly or monthly market which the Staybridge and Homewood Suites cater to, also nicely fills a gap in the downtown core.

“It’s part of the John Street story,” said Norton, referring to the recent purchases of the old Crazy Horse Saloon by a Toronto developer and the opening of a Korean restaurant.

Stinson said once these two key projects are done, he isn’t sure if he’ll pounce on any more Hamilton projects too soon.

He is just putting the final touches on the Hotel Niagara in Niagara Falls, NY, a two-year multimillion-dollar project he was involved in. The Hotel Niagara was the sister to the Royal Connaught in the United Hotel chain — with much of the same history.

“It’s quite amazing in the U.S. for all of their troubles in the economy, there is this mindset ... of let’s get this done,” he said of the transformation of the hotel.

BCTed
Aug 10, 2012, 4:30 AM
I am not sure why Harry keeps taking digs at apparently appropriately cautious Hamiltonians, unless he is trying to guilt them into purchasing units based strictly on the apparently amazing architecture that the out-of-towners are so adept at identifying.

Dr Awesomesauce
Aug 10, 2012, 11:47 AM
It's easier for him to blame Hamiltonians than to take responsibility for his actions...or inaction as the case may be.

thistleclub
Aug 10, 2012, 12:24 PM
He does admit having a finished show loft would help.

Weren't there two display units opened on the ground floor? One was to the left as you entered and the other beside the main stairwell.

Just this week, Stinson called on architect Drew Hauser to dust off those plans and scale them back, to a $20-million, six-storey, 150-unit long-term stay hotel.

As hard a sell as microsuites-with-room-service are, I wonder if long-term hotel suites that "focus on the three months to a year market" will be any easier. Vrancor will likely have added 330 rooms to the downtown supply by the time the Grand breaks ground, boosting the stock of downtown hotel rooms significantly and, in the absence of proportionate rise in demand, potentially diluting the industry's occupancy numbers just as significantly.

durandy
Aug 10, 2012, 7:40 PM
“Financing is not easy to get for anything these days, not in Hamilton and not at the $30-million level.”

Nor for someone who got kicked out of Toronto pennyless and with a horde of condo owners crying for blood after he effed up one King west!

Anyone who would buy a Hamilton Grand unit had better have a great lawyer check the agreement first. At One King west Stinson never figured out that condo hotels got taxed commercial not residential so people were paying over $10K in taxes!

As for the show unit, that was about the cheapest thing I'd ever seen at the Doors Open two years ago. Total DIY.

So the answer for why Hamiltonians are being hesitant is basic prudence if you ask me.

MeIsThomas
Oct 17, 2012, 12:14 AM
Took these photos today:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2lbki38.jpg
http://i49.tinypic.com/rcufdj.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/1zlgmtv.jpg

Source: My photos

Berklon
Oct 17, 2012, 2:20 AM
When's this thing supposed to be done? Because it looks like they're still a long ways off.

SteelTown
Oct 17, 2012, 4:22 AM
Great to see progress is being made.

mattgrande
Oct 17, 2012, 11:31 AM
According to this article from The Spec (http://www.thespec.com/photozone/776705--photos-stinson-school-project), it should be open by February.

Doubtful, but doable, I'd say.

BCTed
Oct 29, 2012, 12:12 PM
According to this article from The Spec (http://www.thespec.com/photozone/776705--photos-stinson-school-project), it should be open by February.

Doubtful, but doable, I'd say.

The date has moved yet again, according to this article:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/826232--thinking-outside-the-gta-box
"In terms of the former school, Stinson says he is shooting for occupancy in March. The heavy rain this fall has been difficult, but Stinson says the interior is about half finished."

To me, "shooting for" does not sound too encouraging. Also, we can add "heavy rain" to the long list of excuses for delays/stoppages for the various Stinson projects. Apart from the last few days, have we actually even experienced a lot of rain?

LikeHamilton
Oct 29, 2012, 9:01 PM
Why the heavy rain excuse?
It has a roof on it!
I used to work in construction and rain was only an covenant excuse to use when something else you caused, caused the delay.

Pearlstreet
Oct 30, 2012, 12:17 AM
Why the heavy rain excuse?
It has a roof on it!
I used to work in construction and rain was only an covenant excuse to use when something else you caused, caused the delay.

Its clear Stinson is a big marketing man.

mattgrande
Oct 30, 2012, 12:29 PM
Why the heavy rain excuse?
It has a roof on it!
I used to work in construction and rain was only an covenant excuse to use when something else you caused, caused the delay.

See here: http://stinsonschool.com/temp_topbar-1.jpeg

In the image on the right, see the part that's connecting the two buildings? That all needs to be done. I can't imagine that'd be easy to do in the rain (but I've never worked in construction, so you'd know better than me!)

reuben
Nov 2, 2012, 6:09 PM
Most original windows have been removed as of today. Was hoping to have a peek inside to see how things were coming along, but all the openings are covered in plywood. Wonder when the new windows will be installed?

MeIsThomas
Nov 14, 2012, 3:59 AM
http://i47.tinypic.com/1jkfp3.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/14917rr.jpg

http://i48.tinypic.com/6gzp0w.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/6qbjht.jpg


Source: My Photos

SteelTown
Dec 19, 2012, 7:59 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/Appster/173C6511-3D3B-481F-9ED0-C072D04CFF9A-26515-0000186746DE98F0.jpg

bigguy1231
Dec 19, 2012, 10:33 PM
That roof has been incomplete like that for almost a year now. It's like Harry didn't pay the bill so the roofers walked away.

SteelTown
Dec 19, 2012, 10:47 PM
I sat and watched a bunch of guys working on the site. It's slow probably because there's a small group of trade workers onsite.

mattgrande
Dec 20, 2012, 12:56 PM
That roof has been incomplete like that for almost a year now. It's like Harry didn't pay the bill so the roofers walked away.

They're connecting the two "towers," so that part of the roof won't be there when they're done.

reuben
Dec 20, 2012, 1:36 PM
That roof has been incomplete like that for almost a year now. It's like Harry didn't pay the bill so the roofers walked away.

haters gonna hate.

bigguy1231
Dec 20, 2012, 4:08 PM
They're connecting the two "towers," so that part of the roof won't be there when they're done.


That explains the middle section, but what about the dormers at the back and on the outside of the middle section.

bigguy1231
Dec 20, 2012, 4:10 PM
haters gonna hate.


I am a sceptic not a hater. He's been alot of talk and very little action.

Berklon
Dec 20, 2012, 7:13 PM
I am a sceptic not a hater. He's been alot of talk and very little action.

I agree.

Even though I probably wouldn't live there, I don't mind the project at all. The problem is it's taking forever and it makes me wonder if it'll ever get done. I can't imagine this thing being done in 2013.

Sadly, this is the further Stinson's gone with any project in Hamilton - which really isn't saying much at all.

mattgrande
Dec 20, 2012, 10:34 PM
That explains the middle section, but what about the dormers at the back and on the outside of the middle section.

Fair enough, I don't know.

All I know is that everytime I walk past during the day, they're doing something, which is better than it was awhile ago.

bigguy1231
Dec 20, 2012, 11:40 PM
Fair enough, I don't know.

All I know is that everytime I walk past during the day, they're doing something, which is better than it was awhile ago.

I am glad to hear that they are doing work. It just seems that they aren't moving very fast. The people who have bought units can't be too pleased.

matt602
Dec 21, 2012, 12:20 AM
I'm wondering how many units will actually be physically lived in once the project completes...

BCTed
Dec 21, 2012, 2:32 AM
I'm wondering how many units will actually be physically lived in once the project completes...

I certainly do not see the appeal of the location or even the format, and I cannot imagine that there are many who do...

MeIsThomas
Dec 28, 2012, 1:02 AM
Harry Stinson talking about the Stinson School Lofts:
f0HuoAibWHo

Dr Awesomesauce
Dec 28, 2012, 3:16 AM
An interesting presentation; however, those potential valuations for Stinson School seem far-fetched. That concerns me and makes him seem desperate: something we've seen from him in the past.

And the concept for the Hamilton Grand is a little peculiar to me. It seems too easy and anything that easy gives me pause for thought.

lucasmascotto
Dec 28, 2012, 7:19 AM
Hmm...he seems just a little too desperate for my liking. I see this project being completed but I don't trust his guarantee on much. :shrug:

BCTed
Jan 13, 2013, 4:10 PM
The date has moved yet again, according to this article:
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/826232--thinking-outside-the-gta-box
"In terms of the former school, Stinson says he is shooting for occupancy in March. The heavy rain this fall has been difficult, but Stinson says the interior is about half finished."

To me, "shooting for" does not sound too encouraging. Also, we can add "heavy rain" to the long list of excuses for delays/stoppages for the various Stinson projects. Apart from the last few days, have we actually even experienced a lot of rain?

Yet another few months added on --- the date is now May. From http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/talk/story/2013/01/07/hamilton-tenthings.html :

Dear Lord, let 2013 be the year that Harry Stinson finally puts people into his endlessly-delayed condo project at the old Stinson school.

One deadline after another gets missed, but Harry tells me now that all 66 suites will be ready to go this May.

Why all the holdups?

"Weather, surprises, this, that and the other thing," he said. "This place is a Rubik’s cube."

Berklon
Jan 13, 2013, 5:15 PM
I was questioning whether they'd being able to finish it in 2013... let's see if there any more delays.

Dahyno
Feb 14, 2013, 7:24 AM
Wait a second, I thought the Stinson School was that building across the street from Hamilton General Hospital.

matt602
Feb 14, 2013, 9:17 AM
No, that's West Avenue school. It was restored into residential units about 2 years ago.

Dahyno
Feb 14, 2013, 10:51 AM
No, that's West Avenue school. It was restored into residential units about 2 years ago.

Yea, I realize that now. :haha: I had a whole spiel about how the price of the stinson school lofts was absurd for some barton street property.