[waterloowarrior]

CBC, VIA Rail considered for auction block: Documents
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Rail+considered+auction+block+Documents/1652330/story.html

BY ANDREW MAYEDA, CANWEST NEWS SERVICEJUNE 1, 2009 6:49 PM
The CBC Windsor, Ont., office. The federal Department of Finance has flagged several prominent Crown corporations as 'not self-sustaining,' including the CBC, VIA Rail and the National Arts Centre, and has identified them as entities that could be sold.

OTTAWA — The federal Department of Finance has flagged several prominent Crown corporations as "not self-sustaining," including the CBC, VIA Rail and the National Arts Centre, and has identified them as entities that could be sold as part of the government's asset review, newly released documents show.

In its fiscal update last November, the government announced that it would launch a review of its Crown assets, including so-called enterprise Crown corporations, real estate and "other holdings."

Finance Department documents, obtained by Canwest News Service under the Access to Information Act, reveal that the review will focus on enterprise Crown corporations, which are not financially dependent on parliamentary subsidies. Such corporations include the Royal Canadian Mint and Ridley Terminals, which is a coal-shipping terminal in Prince Rupert, B.C.

But the documents also reveal that the government will consider privatizing Crown corporations that require public subsidies to stay afloat.

"The reviews will also examine other holdings in which the government competes directly with private enterprises, earn income from property or performs a commercial activity," states a Finance briefing note dated Dec. 2, 2008. "It includes Crown corporations that are not self-sustaining even though they are of a commercial nature."

In the briefing note, the Finance Department identifies nine Crown corporations that fall in that category, including Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., the CBC and VIA Rail.

The government announced last week that it will split AECL in two and seek private-sector investors for the Crown corporation's CANDU nuclear-reactor business.

The Crown asset review comes as the government struggles to contain the country's deficit, now expected to top $50 billion this year. The Jan. 27 budget assumes that the government will be able to raise as much as $4 billion through asset sales by the end of March 2010.

The budget identified four federal departments whose Crown assets are being reviewed first: Finance, Indian and Northern Affairs, Natural Resources, and Transport and Infrastructure. VIA Rail is overseen by the Transport Department, while the CBC and the National Arts Centre fall under the portfolio of the Canadian Heritage department.

The Finance Department documents confirm that all government assets will eventually be reviewed.

Privatizations tend to work well when Crown corporations enter a reasonably competitive market with a good chance of turning a profit, said Aidan Vining, a professor of business and government relations at Simon Fraser University. Unlike successfully privatized firms such as Canadian National Railway, it's not clear that CBC and VIA Rail could operate as profitable ventures while maintaining the public mandates they provided as Crown corporations, he noted.

"They're not the classic privatization candidates, where you sell and walk away," said Vining, an expert in Crown corporation privatizations. "Unless, of course, you're prepared to fully withdraw from the public purpose (of the Crown corporation)."

Certainly, the sale of a flagship Crown asset such as the CBC would be politically controversial. After the CBC announced this spring that it would lay off hundreds of employees, opposition critics accused the government of turning a cold shoulder to the public broadcaster's struggles.

Under the Financial Administration Act, Parliament would have to approve the privatization of any Crown corporation. "It's hard to believe that some of these sales would go forward in a minority Parliament," said Vining.

The Finance Department has also begun to examine the government's vast real-estate portfolio, which includes 31 million hectares of land, and more than 46,000 buildings totalling 103 million square metres — more than double the office space available in the Greater Toronto Area, according to the Finance documents. The government's holdings are worth at least $17 billion, Finance officials estimate.

A briefing note labelled "secret" said that the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs acquired $7 million in surplus properties between 1998 and 2006 for potential use in land-claims deals. Over the same period, the properties cost $2 million to maintain. Divesting such properties could not only generate revenue for the government, but also cut "ongoing operations and maintenance costs," states the briefing note.

A Finance Department spokeswoman said the asset review won't necessarily lead to sales in all cases.

"Reviews will assess whether value could be created through changes to the assets' structure and ownership, and report on a wide set of options including the status quo, amendments to current mandates or governance," department spokeswoman Stephanie Rubec said in an e-mail. "In some cases, it may be concluded that selling an asset to a private sector entity may generate more economic activity and deliver greater value to taxpayers."


Crown corporations identified by the government as "not self-sustaining":

(Company name, commercial revenues, parliamentary subsidy, expenses)

Atomic Energy of Canada Ltd., $614.2 million, $285.3 million, $1.3 billion

CBC, $565.5 million, $1.1 billion, $1.7 billion

Cape Breton Development Corp., $5.1 million, $60 million, $94.1 million

Federal Bridge Corp. Ltd., $14.6 million, $31.0 million, $42.9 million

National Arts Centre Corp., $26.0 million, $40.6 million, $65.7 million

Old Port of Montreal Corp., $16.7 million, $15.1 million, $32.0 million

Parc Downsview Park Inc., not available, not available, not available

VIA Rail Canada Inc., $293.9 million, $266.2 million, $505.5 million

Source: Department of Finance, Public Accounts of Canada

Note: Financial results are for 2007-08

[matt602]

Get rid of VIA. Bring passenger rail back to CP and CN :)

[DHLawrence]

Only if federal legislation requires them to provide a very good standard of service. Freight railroads being saddled with underperforming passenger trains was the reason VIA was created in the first place...

[vid]

Umm...

Make them self-sustaining? :crazy:

[someone123]

Isn't this backwards? The profitable corporations are the ones the government should not be getting involved in, whereas some of the money losers might be worth keeping around.

The CBC and VIA are both good examples of this. There's no reason why a national broadcaster should have to make a profit, and when it is profit-driven it tends to become useless since it simply duplicates services provided by the private sector.

[SpongeG]

we may as well just join the states

[LeftCoaster]

Isn't this backwards? The profitable corporations are the ones the government should not be getting involved in, whereas some of the money losers might be worth keeping around.

The CBC and VIA are both good examples of this. There's no reason why a national broadcaster should have to make a profit, and when it is profit-driven it tends to become useless since it simply duplicates services provided by the private sector.

I agree to an extent, but specifically regarding the CBC 1.1 billion is simply too much. Something needs to be done. Not necessarily a sale as a National Broadcaster has its merits but significant restructuring and a plan to make the CBC relevant again is essential.

[1ajs]

getting rid of the cbc no... who here listens to the world @6 i do curently listening to as it happens another cbc classic if anything cbc needs to get rid of corprat culture and go back to its roots radio...... its getting stupid now one can't go out into the country and even pic up cbc anymore WTH???

getting rid of via no... expanding via yes like aww installing proper toilits so they could run on cp's lines would be nice specly for regina and calgary


the conservitive governement is so outa tuch they need to stop for a second and think

[edmontonenthusiast]

no way should one get rid of cbc, it's our oldest station and our only truly liberal broadcasting.

Get rid of VIA. Bring passenger rail back to CP and CN :)

Please something like Amtrak. Or bring Amtrak to Canada - outside of Van, MTL, and Tor.

[jmt18325]

I agree to an extent, but specifically regarding the CBC 1.1 billion is simply too much.

1 billion isn't enough, and recent polls show that half of Canadians agree. Only 20% want the CBC to get less money. They can't sell the CBC...or the Mint...this is crazy.

[bornagainbiking]

There are many areas where CN or CP could take over or better yet get VIA to work for the people.
It is over 5 days sitting in a seat on VIA from Halifax to Vancouver and $1200 or $284 by Greyhound in 3 days plus.
You can fly and see nothing for under $400. Air Canada
Everyday a person could commute from Brantford to toronto but it is $31 one way. or GO from hamilton for under $20 return.
VIA is subsidized but really doesn't want the business. they have to shift to service to the taxpayers then maybe we will see some improvment or volume.
Europe runs on trains you can set your clock by and has for years.

[bornagainbiking]

Amtrak Coast to coast $303 NY to LA. vs $1200 VIA. Halifax to Van.
Yes there are volume issues but maybe AMTRAK and VIA could link a partnership like the airlines do.
As for the CBC in days of no accountability they would send out two teams of cameras and crew for french and English to the same event or location.. Cameras and mikes can't tell the difference, so it would be more prudent one crew two commentators or one bilingual one. Sure says money on food, accomodations and air travel. About time they had to trim the fat or redunadancy. Yeah Unions.:slob:

[edmontonenthusiast]

^Yes I'm so jealous of Amtrak. It would be amazing to have here. It would really get people going on rain transportation here in Canada. I'd love to take trains to Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, and various other American cities.

[Calgarian]

Get rid of VIA, I live in Calgary, I won't be affected. lol

[Slug]

Anybody watching the CBC news right now? Looks like Peters teleprompter was just let go.

[wild wild west]

Well, since I live in a Canadian city that has more people than most provinces yet still has no VIA service, and I don't watch the CBC unless it's HNIC and not the Leafs, I would welcome the opportunity to no longer have to pay for these things through my taxes.

[jmt18325]

CBC is important....VIA...not so much.

[NetMapel]

Anybody watching the CBC news right now? Looks like Peters teleprompter was just let go.

What, really ? Peter Mansfield or whatever his name is is gone from CBC ? :O

[vid]

I think he was making a joke about a teleprompter malfunction. CBC News has at least one slip up related to teleprompter malfunction every day, similar to TB News' "let's display the non sequitur footage or audio at random".

[theman23]

The CBC computers are down today apparently.

[MTLskyline]

VIA is important....CBC...not so much.

(not to mention the fact that VIA has less than half the expenses of the CBC, and actually provides a useful and needed service.)

[jmt18325]

CBC provides a very important service...especially CBC Radio. A great many people listen to it. Number one in Calgary and number 2 in Winnipeg. CBC TV is also important, but less so given its lack of funding.

[vid]

In most of Northern Ontario, CBC is the only radio station they get. If it was gone, they would have no local media. In Thunder Bay, CBC radio is the only competition to Dougall Media and the Chronicle-Journal, and frequently is the only news source to pick up some stories. We need this service.

[wild wild west]

While I don't have much use for it, at least CBC is a Canada-wide service...VIA rail, on the other hand, is not.

[jmt18325]

To sell a Crown asset, Parliament has to give approval...I don't think many Crown assets will end up being sold...definitely not the CBC.

[Beltliner]

Just for gits and shiggles, howzabout merging the television operations at Mothercorp and Crapwest Global? Fort Dork stays open for national news and Rick Mercer; the merged network combines production resources to the point that it can afford to develop watchable, export-grade programming as opposed to wacky unfunny low-rent romcoms and Canadian Content Contractual Obligation Cinema; local stations can deliver effectively on useful local news and information without it all being manufactured in Toronto or Winnipeg, and only have to deliver one more HD studio and antenna array per city instead of two; Radio One and Radio Two get a little TLC and peace, love, and understanding. Everyone wins!

[jlousa]

CBC doesn't need to be sold, just downsized, paying don cherry and pal over a million a yr is a waste of our money, and yes I know that HNIC is the only past of the networks that makes any money. They need to go back to their roots and provide a simple service and stop trying to make hit tv shows.

VIA on the other hand I think is better off toasted, Strike a deal with a private outfit and make them commit to min levels and let them have at it. I think a completely new approach ala a Southwest/westjet model would work great.

[MTLskyline]

CBC can always be privatized and forced to keep Canadian content regulations, and its entities in all markets alive. Of course, this might mean that it has to air infomercials overnight, etc. But that's business.

[1ajs]

actualy we have some decent crap comming outa the cbc especialy when u look at the crap other contries national tv stations make... we are rather spoiled in canada and don't know this

[DHLawrence]

To sell a Crown asset, Parliament has to give approval...I don't think many Crown assets will end up being sold...definitely not the CBC.

VIA's a different case, though; since it was created by the Privy Council and not Parliament (though a 'VIA Rail Canada Act' has been attempted several times), it's not as secure as other Crown Corporations.

[jmt18325]

According to the article, the sale of any Crown Corporation requires a vote of parliament....I guess we'll have to wait and see. I think privatization might do VIA good anyway....the CBC...not so much.

[vid]

Yes, VIA will be just like all those other privatized national rail lines.

[jmt18325]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like VIA to stay where it is...but I think they'll sell it...and I'd rather have it go than the CBC...or the Mint..but something tells me the Mint...and maybe Canada Post...won't be safe.

[Policy Wonk]

Who in their right mind would buy VIA Rail?

The fleet with the exception of the GE Genesis locomotives is entirely made up of scrap metal and is of no value except as scrap metal. I also suspect that as a private company the tolerance VIA has enjoyed for its third world environmental practices would vanish quite quickly creating a tremendous liability for whoever buys it.

[1ajs]

via needs to clean up its act

[Aylmer]

If the Cons sell CBC, they will be overthrown before you can say "World Report".

I'll provide the pitchforks.

VIA, meh. I think it could use some serious competition, because it's so blinking expensive and has almost no bang for your buck. I would love to take the train to Toronto or Montreal without losing an arm and a leg.

:)

[miketoronto]

VIA rail service costs more coast to coast than Amtrak, because the VIA service is known as being much better.
The Amtrak cross country train routes are not as famous or popular with tourists as VIA.

As for selling VIA, you guys do know that VIA was formed because the private companies got out of the passenger rail business, because they could not make a profit.
Going private will do nothing and will just see the end of even more rail service.

If anything Canada needs more gov support in services like VIA. Go the European way.

[shreddog]

If the Cons sell CBC, they will be overthrown before you can say "World Report".

Why? Seriously, we have evolved to the point where we no longer need the national broadcaster to define us - even if it really is able to do so today.

Let's look at the CBC as it currently is:

CBC Radio - great service that truly fills a hole, regardless if it local, national or international. In the RF, Satcom and online world, they have a role in providing a news and information source with a Canadian perspective. That said, I listen ALOT to NPR and really wouldn't feel that CBC radio would be emasculated if it were structured - and funded - like NPR. NPR offers a view on the US that is not unlike how the CBC reflects Canada.

CBC Newsworld - while it is okay when it does news, there is way too much filler on it. Make it more like the radio and I might watch.

CBC tv - Axe the beast. HNIC could be moved to any other broadcaster and we wouldn't notice the difference. As for programming, well the CBC funds very little itself. That which it does fund could still be funded with the cost savings from the reduced CBC allotment and broadcast on any other Canadian channel. And don't anyone bring up CBC and children's programming. They only thing original now is a talking Yam which is so f'ng insulting I refuse to let it be seen in my household.

AO, I'm probably one of the biggest fans of the CBC, however it relevance today is not the same as it was 10, 25 or 50 years ago. Let it adapt or die - I really don't need my tax dollars funding Little Mosque on the Praire to know I am Canadian or to teach people in Botswana that Canada is different than the US.

[harls]

VIA rail service costs more coast to coast than Amtrak, because the VIA service is known as being much better.


$900 dollars more? (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=4282027&postcount=12)

[miketoronto]

I love how people say they don't want their tax dollars supporting things like the CBC, acting like it will save you thousands on your tax rate.

Selling off these things will probably save each of us only $10 bucks on our taxes.

I think we can afford that, and it is important to keep these kinds of services, and instead of killing them off, making them stronger.

Is the U.S. not the only major industrialized country in the world without a national broadcaster???

[shreddog]

VIA rail service costs more coast to coast than Amtrak, because the VIA service is known as being much better.
The Amtrak cross country train routes are not as famous or popular with tourists as VIA.
Proof?? Amtrack has many famous routes. Which ones do the Europeans fly across the pond for in Canada?? Perhaps it's the Rocky Mountaineer??

If anything Canada needs more gov support in services like VIA. Go the European way. A good chunk of European rail is private - is that what you are advocating?

Unfortunately the problem with rail in Canada is that it is too slow. I don't mean that current rail is too slow - even HSR would be too slow. Why would anyone take an HSR from Van to To when they could be there by plane for much less and much quicker?? Face it, we are the problem - we all live in an instant world (what?? 1 Gig download is not fast enough for you? then buy a bigger pipe, no at Rogers 10 Gig home service for all you porn surfing needs!!) and expect everything to be like that. Rail in Canada has a future in local and regional interurban transit only. And that is where the action should be. Given that, why couldn't local private companies run the business, rather than a goverment styled bureaucy??

[shreddog]

I love how people say they don't want their tax dollars supporting things like the CBC, acting like it will save you thousands on your tax rate.

Selling off these things will probably save each of us only $10 bucks on our taxes.

I think we can afford that, and it is important to keep these kinds of services, and instead of killing them off, making them stronger.

Is the U.S. not the only major industrialized country in the world without a national broadcaster???
EVERY F'NG DOLLAR COUNTS!!!!!

Anyway, my comments are about relavancy, not dollar savings. CBC television lost that a long time ago and honestly I'm not sure they can get it back. And given that, kill it and redistrubute the money in a better fashion if we feel that giving 1 Billion towards Canadian culture is a wise thing to do. Imagine, instead of paying the mother corp beast, if all that money went to culture creators there'd be a ton of good stuff out there and now with so many avenues to reach people it wouldn't be lost.

[jmt18325]

Most people in Canada, according to a recent Pollara poll, either want to hold the line on CBC spending or increase the spending (about half want to increase it).

[240glt]

It's like the conservatives are trying to lose the next electrion

FWIW, There's parts of the CBC I love (national radio, news, sports) and parts that I hate (Edmonton local radio & tv, original programming) I'd rather see the corp maintained, trimmed down and made more relevant.

VIA underserves so many communities. I would like to see rail travel expanded in Canada, whether it be done by a crown corp or by a private company.

[wild wild west]

I love how people say they don't want their tax dollars supporting things like the CBC, acting like it will save you thousands on your tax rate.

Selling off these things will probably save each of us only $10 bucks on our taxes.

I think we can afford that, and it is important to keep these kinds of services, and instead of killing them off, making them stronger.

Is the U.S. not the only major industrialized country in the world without a national broadcaster???


News flash to you - WE HAVE A $50 BILLION DEFICIT! As Shreddog said, every dollar counts. There will have to be spending cuts in the near future if we are ever to get out of that deficit, regardless of what the Finance Minister, the Prime Minister or the opposition parties tell you. Governments that have successfully gone out of deficit - the fedeeral government and various provinces in the '90s - did so in part on cuts to non-essential services. The reason we are back in deficit is because we've had 3 straight minority governments which have hiked spending at a rate far faster than inflation, and it's caught up with us. Spending cuts do need to happen - not to lower taxes, as you assume, but rather to get us out of deficit.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Maybe we could have a CBC celebrity auction. Who wouldn't pay big bucks for a Don Cherry jacket from HNIC, a chair sat in by Jian Ghomeshi, or an Arby's receipt signed by Rick Mercer and Jean Chretien? Okay, I'd pay something for that last one.

[Beltliner]

It's like the conservatives are trying to lose the next electrion

Me, I'm just waiting for the next Graf Misha attack ad:

Michael Ignatieff doesn't like ice cream.

And he thinks you shouldn't have ice cream either.

That's because he spent the past 34 years in places where people don't eat ice cream.

He's not in it for you. And he's not in it for ice cream. He's just in it for himself.

Michael Ignatieff. Just visiting. And he doesn't like ice cream.

[edmontonenthusiast]

It's like the conservatives are trying to lose the next electrion

FWIW, There's parts of the CBC I love (national radio, news, sports) and parts that I hate (Edmonton local radio & tv, original programming) I'd rather see the corp maintained, trimmed down and made more relevant.

VIA underserves so many communities. I would like to see rail travel expanded in Canada, whether it be done by a crown corp or by a private company.

I agree - although I do like news at six. I really do like CBC, but my only beef is how little they even dare to mention Edmonton, that's why for nat'l news except a few shows, I'll go to CTV.

VIA rail service costs more coast to coast than Amtrak, because the VIA service is known as being much better.
The Amtrak cross country train routes are not as famous or popular with tourists as VIA.

As for selling VIA, you guys do know that VIA was formed because the private companies got out of the passenger rail business, because they could not make a profit.
Going private will do nothing and will just see the end of even more rail service.

If anything Canada needs more gov support in services like VIA. Go the European way.


I don't know ... I've heard many Americans rave about Amtrak. Apparently it's pretty good, lots of people enjoy it. Considering how cheap it is and apparently good ... I think it is popular. I'd be more interested in going to places by train if it werent so expensive (in VIA company).

[MolsonExport]

I got a better idea. Get rid of Flaherty, Harper and the rest of the Tories. They haven't a snowball's chance in a thermonuclear explosion of getting my vote.

[jeremy_haak]

CBC: maybe sell off CBC TV, but keep Radio.

VIA: it's a little bit rich to criticize VIA Rail for hemorrhaging money when the government has done everything in its power to make the company as unviable as possible. Why not actually spend money on the company so it can actually improve its rolling stock, introduce service from Edmonton to Calgary, and improve travel times and reliability, thus giving it a remote chance at actually being viable?

The results of privatization are pretty predictable if you ask me. We can say goodbye to passenger rail, except perhaps the Canadian, which would likely just continue on as a tourist train - more expensive and more useless than it already is.

[SteelTown]

They certainly aren't a "not self-sustaining" government, with a $50 billion deficit.

[MolsonExport]

Is the U.S. not the only major industrialized country in the world without a national broadcaster???

The Republicans have FOX :yuck: ; the democrats, HBO :cool: .

[Policy Wonk]

VIA rail service costs more coast to coast than Amtrak, because the VIA service is known as being much better.

I have never heard anybody say that and for most Americans Amtrak is a punchline to start with.

[vid]

I did the math a while ago, and found that if you make $75,000 (which is about twice what the average Canadian makes) you will save about $55per year if the CBC was removed. But the taxes probably wouldn't be cut because it would be a tiny cut that the government couldn't brag about, so it would probably just go to more civil servants or something.


Is the U.S. not the only major industrialized country in the world without a national broadcaster???

New Zealand doesn't have one, either. And they do just fine, distinguishing themselves from Australia and all.

[harls]

it's a little bit rich to criticize VIA Rail for hemorrhaging money when the government has done everything in its power to make the company as unviable as possible.


Good one, Jeremy! :D

[MrOilers]

CBC provides a very important service...especially CBC Radio. A great many people listen to it. Number one in Calgary and number 2 in Winnipeg. CBC TV is also important, but less so given its lack of funding.

If CBC is so imprtant and widely watched and listened to, then why can't it make any money for itself?

[MTLskyline]

The Republicans have FOX :yuck: ; the democrats, HBO :cool: .

Not quite, the Democrats have NBC. ;)

[MTLskyline]

I say sell CBC to a private company, and spend the money that was spent on the CBC on greatly improving VIA Rail complete with High-Speed Rail.

[jmt18325]

If CBC is so imprtant and widely watched and listened to, then why can't it make any money for itself?

The CBC doesn't try to make a profit (it does have revenues of 500M) because that's not its job. It's not completely doing its job either, because it doesn't get enough money. It has to produce almost all of its own programming. It has to show productions from all over whether or not their popular...in two languages...across 5 time zones. They are a service, not a busienss.

[vid]

If CBC is so imprtant and widely watched and listened to, then why can't it make any money for itself?

CBC Radio, probably their strongest asset, is advertisement free. If they ran ads on it they would probably make more money, but then they would have less programming time and could lose the snooty listeners who hate ads. If they're getting rid of The Point, they might as well put ads on it too.

Personally I like ads in broadcast media, they give you a chance to go to the bathroom without missing anything.

[jmt18325]

I say sell CBC to a private company, and spend the money that was spent on the CBC on greatly improving VIA Rail complete with High-Speed Rail.

I say sell VIA and put the money that it gets into the CBC so it can be a public broadcaster on the same level as others.

[shreddog]

The CBC doesn't try to make a profit (it does have revenues of 500M) because that's not its job. So what is it's job?? When I read the CBC mandate (http://www.cbc.radio-canada.ca/about/mandate.shtml) it appears that it's job is the following:

"... Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, as the national public broadcaster, should provide radio and television services incorporating a wide range of programming that informs, enlightens and entertains;"

Okay then, so what should it inform, enlighten or entertain us on?? Again, according to the mandate, here they are:

i. be predominantly and distinctively Canadian,

ii. reflect Canada and its regions to national and regional audiences, while serving the special needs of those regions,

iii. actively contribute to the flow and exchange of cultural expression,

iv. be in English and in French, reflecting the different needs and circumstances of each official language community, including the particular needs and circumstances of English and French linguistic minorities,

v. strive to be of equivalent quality in English and French,

vi. contribute to shared national consciousness and identity,

vii. be made available throughout Canada by the most appropriate and efficient means and as resources become available for the purpose, and

viii. reflect the multicultural and multiracial nature of Canada."

It's not completely doing its job either, because it doesn't get enough money.Assuming that what I posted above is its job (since it is its mandate), exactly how much more money does it need to fulfil tasks 3 thru 5? How about task 8? Or task 1? Actually, how can you show that it is not doing its job. Without any metrics, it is merely a whining game. From my perspective I think it is doing well on all tasks except 7.

It has to produce almost all of its own programming.Wrong. CBC produces very little of what it shows. News, sports and a few talking head shows. The rest it buys from private companies just like Canwest, Bell/CTV, etc. It is these production companies that create Canadian content and rather than paying for hundreds of "Production Managers" that sit in Mother Corp's ivory tower deciding which new show to buy, we should be giving more money to the artists and local production companies themselves.

It has to show productions from all over whether or not their popular...in two languages...across 5 time zones.When shows are not popular (BTW, it is they're) they are cancelled. The CBC does not keep shows on tv because of some ultruistic goal. Wild Roses was cancelled after one season since it didn't bring in the viewers. Heartland is still on. Does this mean that the CBC has 50% less mandate to show tv about Alberta??

As for time zones - so what. Peter Mansbridge reads the news once for the National - not 5 1/2 times a night! And since Canwest, City, Bell/Ctv all have the challenge why is the CBC more special??

They are a service, not a busienss.
Okay then. My city provides garbage pick up as a service. They just added household blue box recycling AFTER there was a debate that everyone would pay an extra 4 bucks a month. Does that mean that CBC should have a public debate every time they want more money? Should they ask the Canadian public to approve Don Cherry's salary or whether they should broadcast Wheel of Fortune??

Here's a hint - reread mandate point 7 and focus on the word "efficient". If the CBC's job is to make the Canadian voice heard in an efficient manner, they have shown that they can't do so via broadcast TV since they have something like less than 10% of the national share. Scrap the money they get for broadcast tv, give some to the radio group, the online group and the rest to the artists themselves.

That way the Libs won't accuse me of spending my tax savings on beer and popcorn and the CBC can better meet its mandate.

[LeftCoaster]

Hold on a second here... you guys just introduced blue box recycling??

[shreddog]

I say sell VIA and put the money that it gets into the CBC so it can be a public broadcaster on the same level as others." ... as others ... " What others? Other pubcasters? As per my email above, how much more money does the CBC need to meet tasks 1 thru 8?

Can anyone point me to an explicit analysis that shows if it had 100 Million more it could better meet tasks 1 thru 3.

Or that 500 Million more what better enable task 5?

Or that if it had 1 Billion more dollars it could better contribute to shared national consciousness and identity??

In all honesty, I would support funding increases if I could see a meaningful plan. All we ever here is "the CBC needs more money", but I have yet to see an exact plan of how more money would be spend. Unless the masters at Mother Corp can show me a real plan for how they would spend each new dollar, I'm for significant cuts to CBC broadcast tv.

[shreddog]

Hold on a second here... you guys just introduced blue box recycling??Yep, Calgary now has household blue box recycling - for the last 25 years recycling was done via neighbourhood depots where you dropped your recyclables off.

Unlike all other major Canadian cities (except E-town) Calgary focused on cleaning up its liquid wastes first, then it focused on addressing its solid waste.

[edmontonenthusiast]

^Edmonton's recycling program is quite world class actually. I've heard some visit the Southern US and the amount of recycling is brutal. It seems enstilled in the mentality here - to recycle. I wonder if Edmonton has blue box, though - or maybe I just don't really get it. We use the blue boxes in a literal term to recycle, if that is what is meant. Either boxes or bins, they're all over the place.

[bornagainbiking]

Like every empire building enterprise with NO real scutiny, you have too many people or levels to go through to make a decision. And more daily.
So CBC needs less offices and more studios and ideas.
Just too damn top heavy where money is wasted on big salaries and no products. Suits vs staff.
Time to re-evaluate and streamline the system.

[vid]

Hold on a second here... you guys just introduced blue box recycling??

Thunder Bay got rid of its blue boxes about 10 years ago, we have to use bags now. Our recycling system isn't very good but you can practically drink what comes out of our sewage treatment plant.

[miketoronto]

News flash to you - WE HAVE A $50 BILLION DEFICIT! As Shreddog said, every dollar counts. There will have to be spending cuts in the near future if we are ever to get out of that deficit, regardless of what the Finance Minister, the Prime Minister or the opposition parties tell you. Governments that have successfully gone out of deficit - the fedeeral government and various provinces in the '90s - did so in part on cuts to non-essential services. The reason we are back in deficit is because we've had 3 straight minority governments which have hiked spending at a rate far faster than inflation, and it's caught up with us. Spending cuts do need to happen - not to lower taxes, as you assume, but rather to get us out of deficit.

No spending cuts are needed on our services. The only reason we are in debt is because the Conservatives are not good at running this country, and they ran us into the ground as conservative governments always do. The Liberals had us on the right track, and once the economy improves our debt will be lower or gone, depending how the conservatives manage it. Or if we get a new government with Liberal power, than we will be on the right track.
But spending cuts are not needed, and the small amount of money saved by cutting CBC and VIA would be a drop in the bucket and not worth it.
You don't just sell off things because the economy is bad at the moment.

[Doug]

The timing for asset sales couldn't be worse, but in this case the assets likely wouldn't be worth much even in a healthy economy. The benefit is more to mitigate future losses than generate cash. VIA, CBC and AECL are a nice start, but there have got to be some other dogs that could be unloaded as well. How about BDC, CLC, EDC, Telefilm Canada, Ridley Terminals?

[Proof Sheet]

CBC: maybe sell off CBC TV, but keep Radio.


Keep Lucy Van Den Obervenweld:yes:

I think most people wouldn't be that upset if CBC TV were to be sold...for many people it is the channel to watch HNIC on and the goings on at the Rovers Return but not much else in terms of must see viewing.

CBC Radio has many dedicated listeners including myself.

[jlousa]

Miketoronto, would that be the same liberals that obtained a surplus by drastically cutting transfer payments to the provinces and didn't invest any money into cities hence letting infrastructure crumble?
I figured an urban planning student as yourself would be enjoy the billions upon billions the conservatives have poured back into the provinces and infrastructure projects across the country. It's almost like the two parties have their roles reversed here.

[Aylmer]

1 thru 3. .

Please... PLEASE, don't spell through thru.

It's just one of those things that just ticks me...

:)

[Aylmer]

Miketoronto, would that be the same liberals that obtained a surplus by drastically cutting transfer payments to the provinces and didn't invest any money into cities hence letting infrastructure crumble?
I figured an urban planning student as yourself would be enjoy the billions upon billions the conservatives have poured back into the provinces and infrastructure projects across the country. It's almost like the two parties have their roles reversed here.

Perhaps, but how much does infrastructure cost compared to the CBC?
And cutting the CBC is instant suicide (just add media!): Crumbling infrastructure is a lot less apparent in the eyes of the voter than, say, the privatization of CBC.

Bet it sad, but politics is about getting the most dust under the carpet without anyone noticing.

:)

[MTLskyline]

Perhaps, but how much does infrastructure cost compared to the CBC?
And cutting the CBC is instant suicide (just add media!): Crumbling infrastructure is a lot less apparent in the eyes of the voter than, say, the privatization of CBC.

Bet it sad, but politics is about getting the most dust under the carpet without anyone noticing.

:)

I'm not sure about that, I don't know anyone who watches the CBC (except for hockey). Some of my francophone friends really wonder if English Canadians really enjoy shows such as "Little Mosque on the Prairie" and "Heartland". I tell them the truth of course. My bet is that you (or 99% of Canadians) don't watch them either!

An old Buddhist quote:
"If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?"
I doubt anyone would hear the CBC's fall.

[jmt18325]

Alot more than 1% of people watch the CBC.

[Policy Wonk]

CBC: maybe sell off CBC TV, but keep Radio.

VIA: it's a little bit rich to criticize VIA Rail for hemorrhaging money when the government has done everything in its power to make the company as unviable as possible. Why not actually spend money on the company so it can actually improve its rolling stock, introduce service from Edmonton to Calgary, and improve travel times and reliability, thus giving it a remote chance at actually being viable?

The results of privatization are pretty predictable if you ask me. We can say goodbye to passenger rail, except perhaps the Canadian, which would likely just continue on as a tourist train - more expensive and more useless than it already is.

The primary reason VIA is a financial basket case is the routes it operates outside of Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal are financial black hole. It is the same problem as Amtrak faces - if Amtrak could choose only to operate where it is practical it would be a much better story.

VIA has received ample funding to invest in rolling stock over the years - they have just made extraordinarily bad investments. The Alstom Renaissance cars for instance which while new are still garbage. Then there is the $520 million in funding being from 2007 much of which is being wasted on refurbishing their F40PH locomotives and their LRC cars to extend their lives another 15 years. This makes about as much sense as refurbishing a 727.

And there is zero chance of VIA restoring service between Calgary and Edmonton - outside this website nobody cares and nobody cared when it was canceled either.

[vid]

I doubt anyone would hear the CBC's fall.

The laying off of six people at CBC Thunder Bay resulted in an organized protest of about 100 people.

They'd notice.

[wild wild west]

No spending cuts are needed on our services. The only reason we are in debt is because the Conservatives are not good at running this country, and they ran us into the ground as conservative governments always do. The Liberals had us on the right track, and once the economy improves our debt will be lower or gone, depending how the conservatives manage it. Or if we get a new government with Liberal power, than we will be on the right track.
But spending cuts are not needed, and the small amount of money saved by cutting CBC and VIA would be a drop in the bucket and not worth it.
You don't just sell off things because the economy is bad at the moment.


Wow. So, your solution to our $50 billion deficit is to elect a Liberal government that will not cut spending at all and the deficit will just go away?:koko:

Do you realize that when the Liberals did balance the budget back in the '90s, they did so by hefty spending and transfer cuts? To get this deficit under control there will have to be spending cuts, tax hikes, or both. I'd rather see cuts to CBC, than to health care. And outside of possibly raising the GST back to 7%, I'm not too eager to see even more of my income go to taxes.

The next government, be it Liberal or Conservative, is going to have some major decisions to make. Either act like it's the '70s and 80s all over again and keep hiking spending every year, or start trimming spending which has been increasing unsustainably - well beyond inflation and population growth combined - since Paul Martin's minority government and has just been getting worse every year since.

The cost saving of selling off CBC and VIA service outside the T-M-O triangle is not in what the asset will bring on the open market, but on the annual saving in operating costs.

[miketoronto]

The reason we are in debt is because the economy tanked. Once the economy recovers, the revenue will be up again and the debt will not be an issue.

Also the other reason we are in such a debt is because the conservatives do not know what they are doing, and they cut the GST. We would probably still be in a surplus if they were not so big on cutting taxes for the rich, etc.

There is no need to cut our services. Infact this is the time to increase services.

[WhipperSnapper]

I think it is highly shortsighted to look at these services from only their operational expenses. What impact does the current level of service VIA provides have on the T-O-M triangle economy? Surely, it's more than $266 million? (of course that doesn't include rolling stock) To expect a private, for profit, enterprise to do a better job is just ridiculous.

[jmt18325]

Unfortunately, the TD bank doesn't see us getting out of defict fora while. There will probably have to be $20 - 30B in spending cuts to balance things out....I think $20B in cuts and $10B in tax increases would be about right.

[wild wild west]

I think it is highly shortsighted to look at these services from only their operational expenses. What impact does the current level of service VIA provides have on the T-O-M triangle economy? Surely, it's more than $266 million? (of course that doesn't include rolling stock) To expect a private, for profit, enterprise to do a better job is just ridiculous.

I was actually implying maintaining VIA service in that area but cutting the unprofitable routes. I would imagine VIA could be profitable if it focused its service on T-O-M.

[wild wild west]

The reason we are in debt is because the economy tanked. Once the economy recovers, the revenue will be up again and the debt will not be an issue.

Also the other reason we are in such a debt is because the conservatives do not know what they are doing, and they cut the GST. We would probably still be in a surplus if they were not so big on cutting taxes for the rich, etc.

There is no need to cut our services. Infact this is the time to increase services.

Spending for the sake of spending, without consideration of the value of said government spending is foolhardy at best. I find it amusing that you would spend taxpayer money without an eye for what we are getting in return.

Re: the GST cut - while it is looking increasingly like an ill-advised move that has dented our bottom line, the revenue lost by lowering the GST is but one small part of the problem. We'd still have a big deficit if the GST were still 7%, and no matter which party were in power. Hiking the GST back to 7% would give us a few billion worth of revenue back but we'd still be stuck with a big deficit.

Since you are apparently an "urban planniing student" I suggest you take some courses on demographics. This country will face increasing challenges in delivering core services as the population ages - at some point tough choices will have to be made as the proportion of people working and paying taxes declines, and more senior citizens necessitate higher health care spending (to say nothing of the sustainability of the CPP). Spending our money wisely to address these challenges will become more important than ever in the years to come.

[MrOilers]

I would rather see spending cuts over tax increases any day. We pay an extraoridinary amount of taxes in this country to keep our massive government running, and gouging citizens who are scraping by as it is by raising them, is not a wise nor practical decision.

[vid]

I'm low income and "just scraping by", but the GST cut didn't benefit me at all, and raising it again wouldn't be much of a dent in my budget. Most of the things I buy are taxed by GST, so it really doesn't affect me. Unless you're buying expensive unnecessary items you're not paying as much as you might think, and if you are, you're not "scraping by". The only exception being utilities, but I rent. I think it would be better to decrease income taxes and raise consumption taxes.

Raising the GST could also have the added impact of decreased consumer spending on expensive luxury items, which could slow the economy and hurt the auto and real estate sectors even more, though that would likely be short-term. I support raising the GST back to 7% (or granting municipalities sales-taxing powers) but you have to consider all aspects of such a move. I might hurt more than it helps.

No one has mentioned how much money the government gets back from its civil servants or employees of crown corporations through taxes. What would happen if their wages decreased or they found themselves unemployed?

[jmt18325]

I think that if the GST is to be returned to 7%, it should happen when the economy returns to growth and not before. I have no problem with running a deficit right now, but we need a plan t oget out of the deficit.

[MrOilers]

I think it would be better to decrease income taxes and raise consumption taxes.

I agree with that.

There is no reason why income itself should be taxed.

[Aylmer]

For the 13$ per month that the average Canadian will save from the GST cut that cost the government billions, I would rather see it go towards a project (like HSR!)

:)

[Metro-One]

We should try to avoid being like the USA in every way possible. Does anyone else here notice that the vast majority of the worlds "safest" and "highest quality of life' nations are heavily taxed socialist nations? We need to keep our public companies, for we are all part owners of these entities and we already have so little keeping us together as a nation.

I hate the American selfish attitude of "i dont use it or see it so i dont want my money going towards it." This is the exact attitude that has created the horrible urban decay in most American cities and the decay of their health and education systems and the cause of their terrible public transit systems. Many people dont use public transit, so they dont want their taxes to go to it, many people dont have children so they dont want to pay for education or day care, despite the fact those same children will soon be the ones supporting their old asses.

God help us all if this is the direction we want Canada to head in.

[jmt18325]

We should try to avoid being like the USA in every way possible. Does anyone else here notice that the vast majority of the worlds "safest" and "highest quality of life' nations are heavily taxed socialist nations? We need to keep our public companies, for we are all part owners of these entities and we already have so little keeping us together as a nation.

I hate the American selfish attitude of "i dont use it or see it so i dont want my money going towards it" attitude. This is the exact attitude that has created the horrible urban decay in most American cities and the decay of their health and education systems and the cause of their terrible public transit systems. Many people dont use public transit, so they dont want their taxes to go to it, many people dont have children so they dont want to pay for education of day care, despite the fact those same children will soon be the ones supporting their old asses.

Amen. I don't think anyone could have said it better. A society needs both socialist elements and capitalist elements to flourish....I think we have a pretty good balance. We're the second (or third) best country to live in in the world BTW (according to the United Nations Human Development Index). Norway and Iceland are tied for 1st...and given the current state of Iceland (since the rating was done before, we may only have one country in front of us.

[wild wild west]

I don't want Canada to be like the "heavily-taxed socialist nations" of Europe any more than I want it to be like Texas. We seem to have sort of a happy medium now, and I'm satisfied with that.

[Metro-One]

:previous: But if we start selling off our government companies such as CBC then we are on a slippery slope in becoming like Texas. I agree that we are in a good position now, hence why i do not want to see such sell offs happening.

[jmt18325]

I'm satisfied with where we are now as well. I'm worried that we're about to lose part of who we are. Selling AECL and VIA might not be a big deal, but the CBC, the Mint, Canada Post? We'll be losing part of ourselves (and that argument can even be made for VIA). We should be working to streamline these companies and make them better, mot selling them for bottom dollar.

[Metro-One]

And trust me, selling the rail line will not help. In Vancouver the WCE is an amazing success and is operating at (or above) capacity. Many people want to see trains running in both directions all day and on the weekends, but the private company CPR will never allow it, simply because the passenger rail makes much less money than the freight rail, and the people have no power because CPR is a private company. Learn from this problem Canada, learn from this problem.

Private companies only look 1 day into the future and how much money they can make in the short term. Look at the US banking system over the past few years for what happens when government has no control or regulations over private companies. The extreme right is extremely short sighted and self destructive (as are all extremes, hence why Canada has to stay in the middle).

[MTLskyline]

We should try to avoid being like the USA in every way possible. Does anyone else here notice that the vast majority of the worlds "safest" and "highest quality of life' nations are heavily taxed socialist nations? We need to keep our public companies, for we are all part owners of these entities and we already have so little keeping us together as a nation.
Keeping the CBC will not maintain our quality of life or make the country safer. Public hospitals do, but we're not looking at cutting those.

I hate the American selfish attitude of "i dont use it or see it so i dont want my money going towards it." This is the exact attitude that has created the horrible urban decay in most American cities and the decay of their health and education systems and the cause of their terrible public transit systems. Many people dont use public transit, so they dont want their taxes to go to it, many people dont have children so they dont want to pay for education or day care, despite the fact those same children will soon be the ones supporting their old asses.

God help us all if this is the direction we want Canada to head in.
Of course there are limits to what a country can cut. But something like the CBC is a non-essential service (unlike a hospital, school, military or transit agency). This is not a valid argument to save the CBC. There is no reason that the state has to own its own TV network. I'm sure your opinion on the CBC would be different if the Conservatives dictate what airs on the channel and what doesn't (and turn it into a nationally-subsidized Fox News).

Private companies only look 1 day into the future and how much money they can make in the short term. Look at the US banking system over the past few years for what happens when government has no control or regulations over private companies. The extreme right is extremely short sighted and self destructive (as are all extremes, hence why Canada has to stay in the middle).
Public companies are inefficient and rarely ever care about the bottom line. The problem with the CBC is that its not forced to compete as a private company would. If this were a private company (offering the exact same programming as it does now) it would be long dead. Instead, the taxpayer constantly has to finance big money losers like the CBC to keep them afloat.

[jlousa]

CP rail owns the line in which WCE is running, they don't care is WCE is making money or losing money, CP makes money regardless leasing out time on the line. CP can not lease out anymore time as it needs it for it's freight services which is it's bottom line. Trust me if CP didn't need the line for itself it would be leasing it out left right and centre.

The government only belongs in essential services, I'll agree with keeping CBC, Canada Post, The Mint and others, but no one can deny there aren't businesses that the feds have no business being in. Hopefully this discussion can lead to the government doing a little purging.

[jmt18325]

Public hospitals do, but we're not looking at cutting those.

Well, technically, there's no such thing.

[edmontonenthusiast]

CBC refuses to air Tories anti-Ignatieff ads
By Glen McGregor, Ottawa CitizenJune 3, 2009 7:01 PMComments (10)

OTTAWA — The Conservative party was unable to get television commercials aimed at Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff broadcast by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation because the attack ads violated the network's long-standing ban on political advertising.

The Tories approached CBC officials before the launch of the "Michael Ignatieff: just visiting" campaign and were told that an internal policy prevented the network from accepting political ads outside of times of elections.

As are other broadcasters, CBC is required to provide a share of its airtime to political parties during the writ period, but can set its own rules outside it.

"We'll only accept political advertising like that when there is an election campaign on," CBC spokesman Jeff Keay said. "We have generally pretty strict guidelines."

The policy has been in place for many years and was reviewed a few years ago, Keay said.

It is unusual for political parties to advertise before or after an election, but the Tories, flush with cash, effectively used a series of attack ads against former Liberal leader Stephane Dion before the 2008 campaign officially began.

The "just visiting" ads running on other networks attempt to portray Ignatieff as an opportunist who spent most of his adult life outside of Canada. The spots accuse him of having no plan for the economy and highlight a 1994 television interview in which he referred to the United States as "your country just as much as it is mine."

One Conservative source, speaking on background, said the party thought it was odd CBC would turn down its advertising dollars at a time when the network was struggling under financial pressures. CBC has had to reduce staff and programming as advertising revenues have plunged.

No other network refused to carry the Ignatieff ads, the source said. The TV spots have received heavy airplay in recent weeks, and the cost of the campaign is estimated in the millions of dollars.

Parties are free to spend as much as they like on advertising outside of election periods, but a Liberal senator last week introduced a bill to curtail pre-writ ads. Senator Dennis Dawson's bill would amend the Elections Act to require parties to count all advertising toward their cap on election spending.

Canadian small-c conservatives have long fumed over what they consider to be unfair restrictions on political advertising. Stephen Harper, when he led the National Citizens Coalition, went to court to challenge rules limiting third-party political advertising in a case indexed as "Harper versus Canada."

More recently, the Tories have battled with Elections Canada in court over the agency's refusal to reimburse candidates for the costs of radio and television ads from the 2006 federal election.
© Copyright (c) Canwest News Service
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/News/refuses+Tories+anti+Ignatieff/1659991/story.html

[240glt]

Those ads are so trashy... purely an act of desperation. The cons know that their support has cratered in the east and the fringes of the far right are displeased with them as well. Seems to me that the cons are setting up Ignatieffs' liberals for a majority in the next election.