[YYCguys]

Anyone know the extent of traffic lights being installed on the ring road? After seeing the installed lights at the center street intersection I began to wonder if all this money is being spent on another Barlow or McKnight.

I think that using the word "Trail" to describe Barlow is a stretch! "Trail" should be used solely for those roadways that have NO lights on them at all. So this brings me to a question that probably should be in a different thread (moderator: you can move it if you agree): McKnight and John Laurie have a combination of lights and interchanges and are called Boulevards. Would that term better describe Barlow as well?

[Smevo]

I'd have to agree with you on "Trail" being a stretch for Barlow, and I'd add MacLeod, Edmonton, Beddington, Shaganappi, and Sarcee to that as well. I'd say Barlow and Edmonton are the biggest stretches.

[Distill3d]

I think that using the word "Trail" to describe Barlow is a stretch! "Trail" should be used solely for those roadways that have NO lights on them at all. So this brings me to a question that probably should be in a different thread (moderator: you can move it if you agree): McKnight and John Laurie have a combination of lights and interchanges and are called Boulevards. Would that term better describe Barlow as well?

So, using your argument, Blackfoot shouldn't be considered a "Trail" either.

I'd have to agree with you on "Trail" being a stretch for Barlow, and I'd add MacLeod, Edmonton, Beddington, Shaganappi, and Sarcee to that as well. I'd say Barlow and Edmonton are the biggest stretches.

I would agree. Edmonton Trail should just be renamed 4 Street NE and Barlow Trail should be renamed Barlow Drive.

Now, what I've never understood is why Edmonton Trail is named as it is. Calgary Trail in Edmonton leads to Calgary, but Edmonton Trail leads from Memorial Drive to McKnight. By no stretch of the imagination does it lead to Edmonton.

[Stang]

There are a number of "trails" that have lights, don't lead to where they once did, etc. Actually, only Deerfoot Trail (off the top of my head) doesn't have lights.

I kind of like the "old" trails that are named after where, at one point in time, they headed. Banff, Morley, Macleod (still points there), Edmonton.

Edit: The one that I'm not so sure about it Banff Trail. Does anyone know if this ever pointed to Banff or if it was just named after Banff?

I don't think that any should be renamed. The old trails have a little bit of history, which Calgary is severely lacking in our road names.

It certainly seems that the current trend is to name major roads "trail" and usually with a First Nations name - I don't mind this. But I don't see any reason to change any existing trails to something else because honestly, to me, trail doesn't mean freeway. Just a major road.

[mersar]

Banff Trail used to follow whats now part of Crowchild's alignment north of where it ends (considering all thats left is a couple blocks) and out toward Cochrane from what I recall. From what I recall when the U of C first opened its address was actually on Banff Trail. Other roads like Morley Trail and the similar named roads in that neighborhood were ceremonially named only.

Prior to construction of the TransCanada there were two routes west from the city, the one that lead through Cochrane roughly where Crowchild is (with some deviations such as how it actually came into Cochrane, it used to wind through whats now Gleneagles) and the 'Banff Coach Road' (now Old Banff Coach Road) which came out of the west end and then down to the TCH alignment quite a ways west of the city (the part between Springbank Road and TCH just carries the name, if I recall that wasn't where the road really was)

Edmonton Trail I don't know the full history of, but its possible it was a more ceremonial name (or location, at least for its north most part) given to that road to keep the name in existance. Theres another part between Calgary and Edmonton that fits the set, the aptly named 'Calgary-Edmonton Trail' which runs through many communities along the way to Edmonton, and was the precursor to Highway 2

[Stang]

Cool info Mersar. Thanks.

The only reason that I thought Morley Trail continued to Cochrane (and beyond to Morley obviously) was because there is a little section called Morley Trail in Dalhousie:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=morley+trail,+calgary&sll=51.106823,-114.167969&sspn=0.009633,0.019312&ie=UTF8&ll=51.107321,-114.17048&spn=0.009633,0.019312&t=h&z=16

I figured it was just a long lost segment that remained after Crowchild made its way through, but I have nothing to back it up.

My Dad seems to remember Edmonton Trail actually heading out of town to the North when he came to Canada, but again, I've got nothing to back this up. This would have been slightly pre-Deerfoot I think.

Mersar: I assume that you're a bit of a cartographer yourself (from the Open Street Map link in your sig). Do you know of any old city maps online anywhere? It is pretty neat to see what the road network looked like in previous eras.

One trail that I bet nobody has heard of is Contumacious Trail. ;) It appears to be a mapping error by Navteq. Spotted it on my GPS one day while driving in Crowfoot:

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=51.124819~-114.202323&style=r&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&where1=contumacious%20trail%2C%20calgary%2C%20ab&encType=1

[tdurden5573]

Banff Trail used to follow whats now part of Crowchild's alignment north of where it ends (considering all thats left is a couple blocks) and out toward Cochrane from what I recall. From what I recall when the U of C first opened its address was actually on Banff Trail. Other roads like Morley Trail and the similar named roads in that neighborhood were ceremonially named only.

Prior to construction of the TransCanada there were two routes west from the city, the one that lead through Cochrane roughly where Crowchild is (with some deviations such as how it actually came into Cochrane, it used to wind through whats now Gleneagles) and the 'Banff Coach Road' (now Old Banff Coach Road) which came out of the west end and then down to the TCH alignment quite a ways west of the city (the part between Springbank Road and TCH just carries the name, if I recall that wasn't where the road really was)



I recall a park in Varsity Estates that had a grassy section. 1/2 an inch under the grass (which could be scraped away with your foot) there was assfalt. I recall scraping a large section off and seeing yellow lines of a road, It turned out to be that original highway heading out west. They just threw dirt over it and left it for 40 years. It has since been removed as part of the 53rd street / Dalhousie constuction.

[YYCguys]

One trail that I bet nobody has heard of is Contumacious Trail. ;) It appears to be a mapping error by Navteq. Spotted it on my GPS one day while driving in Crowfoot:

http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=51.124819~-114.202323&style=r&lvl=16&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&where1=contumacious%20trail%2C%20calgary%2C%20ab&encType=1

Yes! That showed up on our GPS too! :shrug:

[Oliver Klozov]

As mersar has pointed out, Banff Trail was what is now Crowchild beyond where it ends. It was likely a lot more of a winding road than the Crowchild of today and that piece of asphalt in Varsity Estates could well have been part of it.

Edmonton Trail was the Calgary end of the C & E Trail (Calgary & Edmonton). Pieces of that original C & E Trail are still named as such in the Red Deer area.

Some of the Banff Coach Road's alignment beyond where it ends today can still be seen crossing the TCH just west of the interchange. It continued west and north from there (most of it now obliterated) to Cochrane and entered Cochrane in the SE corner. The bridge over the Bow in Cochrane is still there.

[mersar]

Interesting, I didn't realise that there was a piece of Morley Trail over there. I only knew about the part east of the U of C in Banff Trail/Charleswood.

As for old road maps, there was a site that had scans of some late 60's and early 70's maps (when Deerfoot was being built) but they appear to have taken them off their site. I may have saved them to my computer at home, I'll take a look as they were interesting to compare to the current road system.

And the highway below the park actually doesn't surprise me, if you pay attention as you head towards Cochrane on 1A, just past Glenbow Road if you look to the south of the highway you can still see some of the asphalt left from the historic route that 1A used to take. Theres only a couple dozen feet of it visible, before Gleneagles was developed the entire highway that ran through there was left, they just dug out a bit where the new alignment continued west and left the rest when that project was done in the 80's I believe. Compare that to today when if they remove/realign a road they spend huge amounts of money to return the ground to look as close as it can to there never being a road there.

[Oliver Klozov]

......As for old road maps, ......

hmmmm, I have a 1953 Alberta Highways map around somewhere but I've moved a few times since I last looked at.

It didn't have any detail for the City of Calgary but then Calgary wasn't very big back then. For example, Highway #8 used to go from Calgary through Montgomery to the Town of Bowness! :yes:

[dmuzika]

Edmonton Trail I don't know the full history of, but its possible it was a more ceremonial name (or location, at least for its north most part) given to that road to keep the name in existance. Theres another part between Calgary and Edmonton that fits the set, the aptly named 'Calgary-Edmonton Trail' which runs through many communities along the way to Edmonton, and was the precursor to Highway 2

I understand that Edmonton Trail followed it's existing alignment to 32 Ave Connector, then followed 41 Ave NE through the now Greenview Industrial Park. Edmonton Trail then roughly followed now McKnight Blvd and Barlow Trail north out of the city. A combination Barlow Trail was constructed south to the Trans Canada Highway, northern growth, and later Deerfoot Trail was built resulted in sections of Edmonton Trail being closed, renamed, etc.

[srperrycgy]

Found these old maps (1966) in my files:

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/CalgaryNW66.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/CalgaryNE66.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/CalgarySW66.jpg

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/CalgarySE66.jpg

[Stang]

^^^ Holy smokes. That's awesome. Thanks!

[crooked rain]

I always thought Old Banff Coach Rd lined up with Bow Trail. Now I know for sure.

[Jimby]

Interesting maps. I have never heard of Buffalo Stadium in Eau Claire before.
I wonder when that disappeared?
Also it shows Prince's Island extending west to the 10 Street bridge.

[DizzyEdge]

Interesting maps. I have never heard of Buffalo Stadium in Eau Claire before.
I wonder when that disappeared?
Also it shows Prince's Island extending west to the 10 Street bridge.

Also shows the downtown CPR Station as it's from 2 yrs before the Calgary Tower was built.

Buffalo Stadium 1946 (www.glenbow.org)
http://ww2.glenbow.org/dbimages/arcpa/1/c/pa-3458-2.jpg
http://library.ucalgary.ca/madgic/maps-airphotos
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/725/buffalostadium.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Also notice that Macleod Tr north of 34th ave is named Victoria Rd, whereas Macleod Tr continues on through the cemetery and through Ramsay (where Spiller Rd goes now). A few years ago I spotted a remaining sidewalk stamp on spiller that read Macleod Trail, but it's probably gone now.

And I see my hood of Balmoral is representin'

Above map with the 4 quadrants put together:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7668/shellcitymap1966calgary.jpg

[ksnaden]

Thank you very much for sharing the map. I often wondered if Deerfoot was "new". It's hard to imagine Calgary without it now.

[Distill3d]

Above map with the 4 quadrants put together:

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7668/shellcitymap1966calgary.jpg

I can't tell from the map, but were Bowness and Forest Lawn still separate towns?

[mersar]

Not at that time, but both had only been part of Calgary for a couple years (Forest Lawn in 1961, Bowness in 1964)

[ksnaden]

I can't tell from the map, but were Bowness and Forest Lawn still separate towns?

Bowness was an autonomous town until 1964, when it was amalgamated by Calgary. In 1952, the districts of Hubalta, Albert Park and Forest Lawn were incorporated as the Town of Forest Lawn. In 1961 the town was dissolved and incorporated in the city of Calgary.

Source: Wikipedia

[kap384]

Interesting maps. I have never heard of Buffalo Stadium in Eau Claire before.
I wonder when that disappeared?
Also it shows Prince's Island extending west to the 10 Street bridge.

Yeah, I wasn't aware of Buffalo Stadium either. Cool to see Buffalo, Mewata and McMahon all on the map.

[Jimby]

Thanks for posting the archive pics Dizzy. The western part of PIP must have washed away in a flood?

[DizzyEdge]

^^If you're talking about the 'island' area that seems to extend west down the river, it appears it's still there, but they just filled in the narrow canal between it and the downtown area.

Actually now that I look at it again that is indeed the case, but there still seems to be a substantial portion gone on the river-side.

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/7579/westdowntownerosion.jpg

[Distill3d]

Found these old maps (1966) in my files:

http://members.shaw.ca/steve.perry/CalgaryNE66.jpg

There seems to have been a re-alignment of Ogden and Bonnybrook Roads, and the disappearence of Portland Street in the Manchester Industrial area in the SE (see section F5 where it says RCAF Equipment Depot). What a difference 40 years makes.

[DizzyEdge]

I never knew what those buildings were (RCAF Equip Depot), now I know.. here's a before and after I had sitting on my harddrive, I think the before is around 1950, the after is a couple years ago

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/158/bonnybrookrcafequipdepo.jpg

[mersar]

There seems to have been a re-alignment of Ogden and Bonnybrook Roads, and the disappearence of Portland Street in the Manchester Industrial area in the SE (see section F5 where it says RCAF Equipment Depot). What a difference 40 years makes.

Quite a lot of roads have been renamed and shifted around. They changed the names around south of Blackfoot, Portland Street went to Ogden Road, and they also changed 40th Ave to be part of Ogden Road. Bonnybrook Road today is what is labeled Ogden Road on that map north of 40th Ave (most of this stretch of road is actually gravel still), Portland Street still exists today north of Blackfoot up to just south of 21st Ave. I'd guess part of the reason for this was to try to get a more continually named 'main' road in the area

[DizzyEdge]

Here's another random file on my computer:
Bonnybrook industrial 1948 on the left, 1924 on the right, both with poorly drawn alignment of Ogden road today. You can see that back then there really wasn't anything where Ogden road today runs, so what is on this 1966 map as Bonnybrook road was the main route through the area until sometime betweem 1948 and 1966.

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8861/bonnybrook1948vs1924.jpg

[crooked rain]

Thank you very much for sharing the map. I often wondered if Deerfoot was "new". It's hard to imagine Calgary without it now.


Its odd to think that there was a time that is still within memory of a lot of people when the only things east of where Deerfoot is now were the airport, Forest Lawn and Ogden. Especially when you consider how many people and how much industry are now located there.

Other things I noted:
- Memorial Drive east of downtown seems to be a real mess. It looks like it would have been nothing more than a trail.
- The neighbourhood known as Valleyfield north of Ogden seems to be mostly gone now
- A lot of Sunalta was removed to plow Crowchild and Bow Trals through.
- The politically incorrect "Home for Retarded Children" in Bridgeland is now gone.

[Jimby]

I knew there was a road between Chinook Centre which I thought was 60 Ave, but I didn't know it was called McKenzie Road and was between Southridge Shopping Centre and Chinook Shopping Centre.
No district of Ramsay? It is labelled Grandview and Mills Estate.
When was Sarcee Trail SW built? It must have been a dream to drive it back then, much less traffic! It must have been the ring road of its day.

[Ferreth]

I've always wondered about how Edmonton trail left Calgary. On this map, the part connecting to what would become McKnight was called "Green Way", then terminates at 48th Ave (now McKnight)

I found some old air photos in
http://www.ourfutureourpast.ca/airphotos_new/index.htm

From 1949 (http://contentdm.ucalgary.ca/collections/airphotos2/www/map.php?m=82_O_10_1949.kml)


Photo in question (http://contentdm.ucalgary.ca/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/airphotos2&CISOPTR=37377)

that looked like the original Edmonton trail continued straight north from that junction - 11St. alignment, then roughly followed the Deerfoot alignment to get back to Barlow Trial. This would be prior to 1945 ("Calgary: An Illustrated History", map Land Use in 1945) when Edmonton Trail just turned straight east and then north at what is now the McCall Way alignment to avoid the Calgary Airport lands. I've never been able to find a map that goes back far enough to confirm my theory.

Can anyone provide me with the missing link that shows where Edmonton trail went prior to the Airport getting in the way?:)

[DizzyEdge]

I knew there was a road between Chinook Centre which I thought was 60 Ave, but I didn't know it was called McKenzie Road and was between Southridge Shopping Centre and Chinook Shopping Centre.
No district of Ramsay? It is labelled Grandview and Mills Estate.
When was Sarcee Trail SW built? It must have been a dream to drive it back then, much less traffic! It must have been the ring road of its day.

Yeah I believe at some point the owner of Chinook bought Southridge and connected them together, hence the extra long-ness of Chinook.

[YYCguys]

Yeah I believe at some point the owner of Chinook bought Southridge and connected them together, hence the extra long-ness of Chinook.

It must have been way easier back then to close a road access to a major road than it is these days. I wonder if the residents of the neighborhood put up as much a stink as is being made these days when such a thing is proposed (think Rocky Ridge Road).

On a side note, I read on the Chinook Centre website that they are celebrating 50 years!

[ksnaden]

Yeah I believe at some point the owner of Chinook bought Southridge and connected them together, hence the extra long-ness of Chinook.
This is true:

Chinook Centre sits on the site formerly occupied by a drive-in theatre. Mervyn Dutton, Roy Jennings, and Frank Kershaw originally developed Chinook, which started out in 1960 as an outdoor mall with 45 retail stores and was enclosed in 1965.

Southridge Mall - built across 61st Ave. - was purchased in 1974, and the two centres were united to become Chinook Ridge Shopping Centre.

In 1981, the Centre underwent a $22 million renovation project - adding new retail, fountains, and more parking.

Source: http://www.chinookcentre.com/history/

[DizzyEdge]

Its odd to think that there was a time that is still within memory of a lot of people when the only things east of where Deerfoot is now were the airport, Forest Lawn and Ogden. Especially when you consider how many people and how much industry are now located there.

Other things I noted:
- Memorial Drive east of downtown seems to be a real mess. It looks like it would have been nothing more than a trail.
- The neighbourhood known as Valleyfield north of Ogden seems to be mostly gone now
- A lot of Sunalta was removed to plow Crowchild and Bow Trals through.
- The politically incorrect "Home for Retarded Children" in Bridgeland is now gone.

I get the feeling Valleyfield ended up with a similar fate to Bonnybrook: both appear to have 'residential' sized block patterns,
and indeed some houses were built, but it stalled for whatever reason and industrial moved in. A couple of years ago I drove
around Bonnybrook and counted 15 tiny remaining houses, at least 1/2 not used as houses anymore. It looks like Valleyfield
similarly may have never been built out:

1966 Map - 1950 aerial photo - 2009 aerial photo

The blue dots on the current aerial are houses from the 1950 photo which are still standing.
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/9317/valleyfield.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

This is true:



Source: http://www.chinookcentre.com/history/

Here's the area 1950, you can see the drive-in, plus what looks like a.. hmm not sure, motorized go kart track??

Also you can see the school north of glenmore west of Macleod which was recently demolished for the interchange there.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5025/chinook.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Its odd to think that there was a time that is still within memory of a lot of people when the only things east of where Deerfoot is now were the airport, Forest Lawn and Ogden. Especially when you consider how many people and how much industry are now located there.

Other things I noted:
- Memorial Drive east of downtown seems to be a real mess. It looks like it would have been nothing more than a trail.
- The neighbourhood known as Valleyfield north of Ogden seems to be mostly gone now
- A lot of Sunalta was removed to plow Crowchild and Bow Trals through.
- The politically incorrect "Home for Retarded Children" in Bridgeland is now gone.

I'd say that's a good assumption

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/1047/memorialeast.jpg

[McMahon]

No district of Ramsay? It is labelled Grandview and Mills Estate.

From an edit I made to wikipedia: "It was named Ramsay in 1956 when residents of Burnsland, Brewery Flats, Grandview and Mills Estate consolidated as a new community named for William Thomson Ramsay, an early land agent and property owner."

[Jimby]

From an edit I made to wikipedia: "It was named Ramsay in 1956 when residents of Burnsland, Brewery Flats, Grandview and Mills Estate consolidated as a new community named for William Thomson Ramsay, an early land agent and property owner."

Interesting, thanks! Brewery Flats is a name I have never heard before - where exactly was it? The residential area west of the brewery south of 9th Ave?

[DizzyEdge]

I thought I'd tackle crooked rain's last point:

"- A lot of Sunalta was removed to plow Crowchild and Bow Trals through."

Crowchild surprisingly seemed to have removed almost none of Sunalta/Scarboro, other than roads printed on maps, as the area it went between them was a former sandstone quarry, so had not been built upon. Bow Trail on the other hand, took out 1 1/2 blocks of Sunalta, including around 20 homes.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7158/crowchildbowsuntalta.jpg

[DizzyEdge]

Interesting, thanks! Brewery Flats is a name I have never heard before - where exactly was it? The residential area west of the brewery south of 9th Ave?

This photo from glenbow.org has as one of it's tags "Brewery Flats"
http://ww2.glenbow.org/dbimages/arc7/s/na-5468-1.jpg

[freeweed]

Interesting talk about old roads.

I just spent another glorious weekend in the mountains (it was pretty much sunny the whole time, north of Hwy 11) and hiked some more old highway and the jeep road leading to the Saskatchewan Glacier. Those of you interested in abandoned roads should really check out just how much is left of the original Banff-Jasper road. Dozens of kilometers of abandoned pavement, old stone bridges, you name it, it's still there. It's amazing how narrow those old roads were - people certainly didn't drive SUVs back then.

Here's a particularly intact section. (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.171063,-117.050056&spn=0.017766,0.038624&t=h&z=15) Complete with 3 bridges, all of which still stand. Further north the bridges are just about all washed out from what I've found.

It would be kinda neat to spend a summer documenting the route and what's left. I found graffiti dated 1940 on one of the bridges, that was kind of cool.

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

[DizzyEdge]

Interesting talk about old roads.

I just spent another glorious weekend in the mountains (it was pretty much sunny the whole time, north of Hwy 11) and hiked some more old highway and the jeep road leading to the Saskatchewan Glacier. Those of you interested in abandoned roads should really check out just how much is left of the original Banff-Jasper road. Dozens of kilometers of abandoned pavement, old stone bridges, you name it, it's still there. It's amazing how narrow those old roads were - people certainly didn't drive SUVs back then.

Here's a particularly intact section. (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=52.171063,-117.050056&spn=0.017766,0.038624&t=h&z=15) Complete with 3 bridges, all of which still stand. Further north the bridges are just about all washed out from what I've found.

It would be kinda neat to spend a summer documenting the route and what's left. I found graffiti dated 1940 on one of the bridges, that was kind of cool.

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

It's almost a shame how much we 'clean up' building sites these days, future archeologists won't have anything to find.

[McMahon]

The abandoned road Freeweed mentioned sounds amazing. I wish I could drive.

On the same note, I mentioned in another thread about the new feature on Google Earth with older aerial images. I was looking at the old 37th Street today and it looks like parts of it are still there. Anybody confirm/deny?

[mersar]

SW? Nope, they ripped it pretty much all out including the old bridge. It wasn't much more then a 1 lane gravel road from what I recall so it wasn't much to rip out

[freeweed]

Hey gang,

Not sure that this one was covered or not... according to Wikipedia, Balzac was originally known as "Beddington". So, Beddington Trail.

It's funny how this all ties in somehow or another.

[Oliver Klozov]

... according to Wikipedia, Balzac was originally known as "Beddington"....

Not too sure about that one. Before it was annexed by Calgary, Country Hills Boulevard was called - Beddington-Delacour Road. Delacour is way east of Hwy 2. I had always assumed that Beddington was to the west of Hwy 2. B-D road went straight west from Hwy 2 but where CHB curves to the southwest it continued west to a junction with the old Centre Street. It wasn't much of a road west of there but followed the alignment of what is now a bike path. I believe it ended at what was then Simons Valley Road (now Beddington Trail). The alignment was not developed over because there is a major water main below it which comes from the reservoir at the top of the hill. Perhaps the whole part of Rockyview to west of Hwy 2, including Balzac was known as Beddington.

[DizzyEdge]

Wasn't there a Beddington train station or something?

[Oliver Klozov]

Wasn't there a Beddington train station or something?

I believe you're bang on!

From the history of the C&E Railway:

...... The official sod turning occurred in Calgary on July 21, 1890. Construction commenced in July with rail reaching Red Deer within two months. The bridge crossing the Bow was completed by the fall and the crew moved north to build over the Red Deer River during the winter. This delayed northerly progress until the spring, but rail service to Red Deer commenced almost immediately.

Towns and villages developed around the sidings and stations along the line. North from Calgary these points were Burnson (siding), Beddington, Balzac (siding), Airdrie, Crossfield, Wessex (siding), Carstairs, Disdsbury, Rosebud (siding), Olds, Neetook (siding), Bowden, Innisfail, Penhold and Tuttle (siding), finally arriving in Red Deer. .....

I think Burnson siding (Memorial to 16th) is now called Bengal and Beddington (the small yard below CHB) is now called Petro by CP.

[jsbertram]

Also notice that Macleod Tr north of 34th ave is named Victoria Rd, whereas Macleod Tr continues on through the cemetery and through Ramsay (where Spiller Rd goes now). A few years ago I spotted a remaining sidewalk stamp on spiller that read Macleod Trail, but it's probably gone now.

That alignment of Macleod Trail north of 34th Ave actually makes sense, since it ends up near Fort Calgary. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the "Wagon Trail to Fort Macleod" has morphed over the years in name and construction (and traffic).

Just like the old "Trail to Fort Edmonton" on the north side of the Bow.

In Red Deer there are still parts of the "Trail to Fort Calgary and Fort Edmonton" through the downtown, that Old Timers still call "the C&E Trail", even though the 'new' Highway 2 (QE2) west of town has been there for decades.

And of course, there is a "Calgary Trail" in Edmonton tracing parts of the old "Trail to Fort Calgary"

Gotta love the good old days before pollsters and marketing gurus gave us pointless names like "Willow Breeze" or "Tuscany View".

[jsbertram]

Found these old maps (1966) in my files:


Has anyone noticed that John Laurie Blvd was supposed to continue north of 48th Ave between North Haven and Thorncliffe?

Today, it's a nice park that stretches from JLB/ 48th/ McKnight to near 14th St & 64th Ave.

[jsbertram]

I never knew what those buildings were (RCAF Equip Depot), now I know.. here's a before and after I had sitting on my harddrive, I think the before is around 1950, the after is a couple years ago

Which begs the question: Why would the RCAF have their equipment depot there, rather than Lincoln Park Air Field (today's MRC University), or McCall Air Field?

With the close proximity to the rail lines, My guess is it was the trans-shipment location between rail & trucks.

[jsbertram]

Interesting talk about old roads.

....

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

The section of parkland south of John Laurie Blvd between 19th St and 14th St W was unofficially used as a football & soccer area by the neighbourhood kids. This is in the days when moms were "housemakers", dads were "wage earners" and kids were told "Get out of the house & play; I don't want to see you in the house again until lunch time!".

There were dozens of us kids just kicking the soccer ball around when one of them made a terrific kick to make a goal before heading home. He missed the ball, but a sliver of sod & a chunk of asphalt must have flown 20 feet.

Forget soccer! We've discovered the remains of a Lost Civilization!

Which turned out to be the remains of the original 2 lane road that was replaced by JLB when it was built & shifted further north away from the houses.

Meanwhile we'd dug up so much sod exposing the asphalt, the city had to scrape off a large amount of the thin grass covering roadway, lay down a really thick layer of dirt & re-seed it (leaving the asphalt there for future generations to discover).

[jsbertram]

Interesting talk about old roads.

...

When you guys described old pavement under parks, and how we don't just abandon road material anymore, it made me think of all this. There's all sorts of abandoned roads in the mountains.

When you're on the TCH near Field BC, east of the Spiral Tunnels viewpoint there is an old bridge that I thought was part of the original TCH built in the 1950s. I've now found out that I was only partly correct. The bridge was apparently part of 'The Big Hill' trackage that the CPR put in between Lake Louise and Field during the original construction in the 1880s. The grade over the Kicking Horse Pass and the Big Hill down to Field was over 4%. I'm impressed that a bridge from the mid-1880s is still intact, although I'm unsure how safe it is.

Field was where extra engines were added to an EB train to get it up to Lake Louise, where the extra engines were taken off & sent back to Field for the next EB train. Meanwhile WB trains had extra brakemen added before the Pass so that the handbrakes were operated on each car to prevent a runaway down to Field. Still, there were plenty of wrecks over the years with rusting hulks still scattered along the old trackbed. 100 years ago this year, the Spiral Tunnels were opened and the grade was to lowered closer to 2%, so the "Big Hill" trackage was abandoned.

When it came time to build the TCH in the 1950s, the "Big Hill" trackage was rehabbed into a road for cars. From the stories passed down through the years, the road was barely wide enough for two cars to pass. Looking at the abandoned TCH roadway (nee railway) bridge, they must have been the ultimate test of driving skills, since they were just one lane wide. Because the Big Hill still had it's 4+% grade, it was also a test of your brakes and engine braking skills when heading west to Field, and you'd be crawling along in low gear all the way the way up to top of the Pass when heading East. Tow truck drivers from Field and Lake Louise were certainly kept busy with locked-up brakes and overheated engines, or worse.

Smart drivers at the time knew if they made it up the Big Hill and over the Pass to Lake Louise, they'd better pull into town, park at the nearest garage, go for lunch or a snack & let the engine cool off. If the car started again, fill up on gas & water before continuing on to Calgary. More than a few cars didn't pass this test, so while the garage repaired the car, the family spent a day (or so) enjoying the local scenery.

[freeweed]

I think this is the bridge you mean. (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.435691,-116.38518&spn=0.002284,0.004823&t=h&z=18)

Interesting story. I didn't realize the full history of that bridge.

[YYCguys]

Currently, the road running north/south through Stampede Park is called Stampede Trail, but going north out of the park, it is called Olympic Way, and that turns into 4 Street, which when the underpass is built, will be a continuous road from the Bow River to the south edge of Stampede Park. I hope that the roadway will get treated to one single name, like 4 Street or something because it is my pet peeve that continious roadways in this city have all sorts of names!

[mersar]

Well I'm suspecting that we'll probably see Olympic Way disappear, since the Stampede is calling the retail development Stampede Trail, which would then make sense to rename at least the 12th ave to 14th ave section to that, leaving the 12th to 10th as Olympic way at the most. And since 10th ave will be cut off from 4th street anyways, that leaves potentially a single block left with that old name

[tmjr]

Currently, the road running north/south through Stampede Park is called Stampede Trail, but going north out of the park, it is called Olympic Way, and that turns into 4 Street, which when the underpass is built, will be a continuous road from the Bow River to the south edge of Stampede Park. I hope that the roadway will get treated to one single name, like 4 Street or something because it is my pet peeve that continious roadways in this city have all sorts of names!

Agreed - I wish roads just had a single name.

But I think what's far worse is when two completely separate roads have the same name. Many examples come to mind, such as Sarcee Trail north and south of the Bow, 14th St north and south of the Glenmore reservoir, or my favorite, FOUR disconnected roads called Voyageur Dr. NW near Shaganappi around 40th ave. NW/Varsity Dr.!

I can imagine that at some point in time these roads were either connected or intended to be connected. Then either because of newer construction or decisions made, they were disconnected/left disconnected.

There is some method to the madness in that roads of roughly the same alignment have the same name, giving you an idea of how far from city center a particular address is (kind of like a civic 'longitude/latitude' system). But I think the overall, the net effect is confusion, especially for those not familiar with the way things work.

"I live on Voyageur Dr. - no not that one, the other... oh let me just draw you a map..." :haha:

With all that said, I can't think of a straightforward 'fix' to the 'problem'...

T.

[mersar]

Named roads that are disconnected I can understand the confusion, numbered streets however are a different case. But you are right, there is no straightforward fix that would be easy to do, the inconvenience of renaming them likely would outweigh the problems from leaving them as is.

[jsbertram]

Currently, the road running north/south through Stampede Park is called Stampede Trail, but going north out of the park, it is called Olympic Way, and that turns into 4 Street, which when the underpass is built, will be a continuous road from the Bow River to the south edge of Stampede Park. I hope that the roadway will get treated to one single name, like 4 Street or something because it is my pet peeve that continious roadways in this city have all sorts of names!

You'd have gone bonkers in London a few hundred years ago, where every street had it's own name, ie: Walk down Masons Lane and it becomes Friars Mews, then Cornhall St, then Abbey Close, then Puddle Dock -- all without turning a corner.

I've heard they've really sorted out a lot of the street names over the years so a contiguous street keeps it's name for the whole length, but there are still some single-block streets that come together at odd angles so four, five or even six different street names converge in one intersection.

[jsbertram]

I think this is the bridge you mean. (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=51.435691,-116.38518&spn=0.002284,0.004823&t=h&z=18)

Interesting story. I didn't realize the full history of that bridge.

You just can't hide anything from Google!

[YYCguys]

Well I'm suspecting that we'll probably see Olympic Way disappear, since the Stampede is calling the retail development Stampede Trail, which would then make sense to rename at least the 12th ave to 14th ave section to that, leaving the 12th to 10th as Olympic way at the most. And since 10th ave will be cut off from 4th street anyways, that leaves potentially a single block left with that old name

10th Ave is going to be cut off from 4 Street? For heaven's sake, why?

[Mazrim]

Smart drivers at the time knew if they made it up the Big Hill and over the Pass to Lake Louise, they'd better pull into town, park at the nearest garage, go for lunch or a snack & let the engine cool off. If the car started again, fill up on gas & water before continuing on to Calgary. More than a few cars didn't pass this test, so while the garage repaired the car, the family spent a day (or so) enjoying the local scenery.

There's a few roads in BC where some older vehicles should still be doing this haha. Mainly: the Snowshed hill on the Coquihalla (Highway 5) and the initial climb out of the Okanagan on the Coquihalla Connector (Highway 97C). I've lost count of how many cars I've seen broken down along those hills. There's been at least 3 cars on fire as we drove up and a few burned out wrecks too! There was also a stalled out truck in the right lane going up the hill that didn't have a chance to pull over, making for some real mayhem for the other trucks crawling up the steep grade.

[mersar]

10th Ave is going to be cut off from 4 Street? For heaven's sake, why?

The required grades to get 4th underneath all the railway right of way (theres 4 CPR tracks, and reserved space for 2 LRT, and 1 HSR track) puts the depth too far down and stretching too far south to make it back up before the intersection at 10th. So they opted to turn 10th into an 'urban plaza' coul-de-sac as the other option of lowering 10th wouldn't work due to the existing buildings there.