[miketoronto]

One thing I notice that is different between Canadian and American bus networks, is the frequency of service. Even small towns in Canada will operate a bus on say a 30 min or 60 min frequency with the bus coming at the same time each hour.

However I have noticed that even in many American cities, even some pretty large, bus schedules are not on any kind of even schedule. This is is not an isolated case but seems to be a feature of many transit systems in the USA.

Does anyone know the reason for this? Does it have to do with less transit funding and having to do more with less, so they just put say one bus on a route and base the timetable on when it reaches the end point, etc?

I have always wondered why the schedules are like this. Again it is not all systems, but a large number of the ones I have looked at seem to do this. Here is an example from Syracuse, New York.

530 WESTCOTT
Genesee St & Westcott St. to Downtown Syracuse
Weekdays
5:44, 6:09, 6:49, 7:22, 7:38, 8:03, 8:08, 8:14, 9:21, 9:59, 11:09, 12:19,
1:29, 2:39, 3:44, 4:54, 5:16, 11:08

Saturday
7:02, 8:03, 9:02, 10:44, 11:54, 1:04, 2:14, 3:24, 4:34, 5:39, 6:44, 11:10

An example from Buffalo

4 BROADWAY
Walden Galleria Mall to Downtown Buffalo
Weekdays
7:32, 8:13, 9:39, 10:21, 12:10, 2:12, 3:25, 4:33, 5:33, 10:23

Saturday
10:02, 12:14, 1:05, 2:02

This one I find interesting. Do people not go to the mall after 2PM or work after 2PM at the mall?

[hudkina]

I would think the times are optimized to make transfers easier as well as get people to jobs centers when they're most likely wanting to be there.

[Strange Meat]

Looking at your example from Buffalo, it looks as though that Walden Galleria place is not a regular stop, so using that as a basis for your case, is, well...

http://www.nfta.com/metro/img/routes/4.gif
http://www.nfta.com/metro/img/routes/4.gif

So, you can see that the mall is only serviced by two bus lines on that route. The central portion on the route features very regular service and is served by 5 busses, the A, B, C, H and T.

The mall is also served by the 6 and 32 lines... The 24 isn't far away, either...

[miketoronto]

I know it is a branch. But still even on branches you would usually say have a bus every hour or something.

I just find it interesting that nothing is on a clockface.

Even on the more frequent portion of the Buffalo route, the times are still all staggered, and there is not an even frequency of say every 15 min, 30 min, or hour, etc.

Just seems weird bigger cities don't have buses on an even frequency and lot more frequent than many of these routes operate.

[electricron]

Just about every American transit agency looks at data, then computes the correct frequency for bus service. Buses arrive more frequently during rush hour than non-rush hour makes sense if you're trying to reduce costs and manage your buses appropriately. Every transit agency is different, but assume they aim for 85% bus capacity during rush hours, and 40% bus capacity during non rush hours. That's what causes the bus schedules you see.

[llamaorama]

well could you get off at a smaller stop near the mall and walk there?

I wonder if this sort of thing where malls are never easy to access by transit even if a stop is deceptively close is done on purpose to discourage teenagers or poor people from coming and loitering. I guess to survive as a retailing outlet they only want the middle-aged $$$ female demographic that spends money, a herd that's easily spooked.

[jtk1519]

My bus goes stops by every 30 minutes at roughly 10 past and 40 past the hour. It can vary by a couple of minutes either way because the bus routes are timed to get to the train stations/wait long enough for riders to transfer.

[alexjon]

American bus services serve destinations and not routes is why. Things are timed to arriving at those destinations at carefully plotted time points. Buses will wait along the route to arrive at their timepoint on time, even.

Even buses that show up every 3-7 minutes will wait out a time point, even if it's pausing an extra 20 seconds.

[sopas ej]

I guess I can only speak for my experience with the Los Angeles MTA, but my guess for those odd schedules is because it takes into account other route-lines that might share particular stops. Looking at one individual bus line, sure, you'll get weird intervals between when the next bus comes for a specific bus number, but if you add in the other bus routes that might share the line, then it looks more regular. I live 2 blocks away from a major street that has 2 bus lines on it; one is a local bus and the other is a Rapid Bus. The Rapid Bus obviously makes fewer stops and its stops are further apart than the local bus'. I have the option of catching one while waiting for the other and make it so that I don't have to be sitting at the bus stop as long. And of course, the buses run more frequently during the rush hours.

[volguus zildrohar]

Connections are a major point, mike, particularly in big and expansive cities. Buses that connect to subway/light rail lines are timed to connect to those routes as well as other significant connections along the way. Remember some routes won't run as often as others do even at the same time of day.
This is in addition to the other reasons that have been listed here.

[miketoronto]

I understand all those. Just it does seem weird. Why not just have the bus come every 30 minutes. Why have it come every 15 min for one hour, then wait an hour and half the hour latter, and than only 20 min after that, and than another hour?

Again it is not all American systems. But I notice it is more common in the USA. Where Canadian systems even the small ones will just schedule a bus every 30 min on a route, or every 60 min.

Bigger systems like SEPTA don't seem to this. They just have a bus go by at a certain intraval like every 30 min.

But I do notice it a lot with systems like Buffalo, Detroit, and other systems.

So I was just wondering if it was some kind of budget thing that they don't have funds to run an even schedule and the buses required for that.

Here is what I am talking about. This is a schedule from Guelph Transit in Guelph, Ontario. See how the schedule is in a sequence.

ROUTE 1 WOODLAWN
Departing St. Georges Square
Weekdays
5:40AM, 6:00, 6:20, 6:40, 7:00, 7:20, 7:40, 8:00 THEN EVERY 20 MIN ON :00, :20, & :40 past each hour TILL 6:20PM, THEN
6:45, 7:15, 7:45, 8:15, 8:45, 9:15, 9:45, 10:15, 10:45, 11:15, 11:45, 12:15AM

[Strange Meat]

Is this like an OCD thing?

[lrt's friend]

I have noticed these irregular schedules as well. If the schedule is regular in your neighbourhood, then you can memorize the times and I think more people are likely to use transit.

[ardecila]

^^ Or you could, you know, just POST THE SCHEDULE at each stop.

[vid]

This is called "being responsive to demand". Also known as "the buses come when they need to come, not arbitrarily every 30 minutes while not actually helping anyone get anywhere when they need to".

[SnyderBock]

well could you get off at a smaller stop near the mall and walk there?

I wonder if this sort of thing where malls are never easy to access by transit even if a stop is deceptively close is done on purpose to discourage teenagers or poor people from coming and loitering. I guess to survive as a retailing outlet they only want the middle-aged $$$ female demographic that spends money, a herd that's easily spooked.

There are documented cases of a mall not wanting a transit stop near/with direct access to them, because they feared transit users woudl park in their mall parking spaces.

[sopas ej]

Is this like an OCD thing?

I know, I was gonna say. He's already gotten plenty of answers, yet keeps beating the dead horse.

Miketoronto, you've already said "I understand all those. Just it does seem weird." So what's the problem? And what seems weird? Are you having trouble reconciling to yourself which schedules are more efficient and make sense? Transit buses are not like trains.

[theWatusi]

This is effectively a country vs country thread and Mike is just baiting everyone into an argument.