[Surrealplaces]

http://twitter.com/jasonreid

I just signed up for Twitter, and I'm following....not that I even know what's going on, but I guess I'll figure it out as I go.

[Wooster]

"Muta" from calgarypuck (who I believe is in the architectural community) seems to indicate that Saucier + Perrotte won the Cantos project.

Hmmmm.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpost.php?p=2046657&postcount=50

[nik8063]

"Muta" from calgarypuck (who I believe is in the architectural community) seems to indicate that Saucier + Perrotte won the Cantos project.

Hmmmm.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpost.php?p=2046657&postcount=50

To be fair, he just said likely. Most likely conjecture based on popular opinion on the designs.

[Wooster]

True. I actually missed "likely" in the sentence, which is a lot less difinitive.

[Bigtime]

Although I'm still rooting for SPFa, I would be happy with S+P.

[Calgarian]

Have S&P actually completed any of their proposals? I wonder what their buildings actually look like finished.

SPF will win, I'm very confident.

[CorporateWhore]

S+P have some very beautiful buildings in Quebec.
http://www.landliving.com/image/raicgov06_9.jpg
http://www.egodesign.ca/_files/articles/blocks/352_perimeter2_l.jpg

I wouldn't be disappointed in their proposal winning, but I do hope we get SPF.

[Wooster]

Thats' S + P's Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, ON. It's one of the best new buildings in Canada in a generation in my opinion. It's beautiful.

[Calgarian]

Thats' S + P's Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, ON. It's one of the best new buildings in Canada in a generation in my opinion. It's beautiful.

That is a nice building. Those ones are really good too Corporate. Thanks

[Wooster]

That is a nice building. Those ones are really good too Corporate. Thanks

Same building.

[Calgarian]

I thought the second one looked like it, but not the first. The first picture makes me think of SPFs proposal a bit.

How about some of S&P's more um, abstract designs, have they built any of those?

[Bigtime]

How about Muta over at Calgarypuck saying there is now way in hell the city will allow a private building over a roadway? I've asked him why, hoping for some more clarification.

Doesn't S+P's proposal also include a sizeable portion over 4th street? Will the city force the winner to abandon plans like that?

[Calgarian]

How about Muta over at Calgarypuck saying there is now way in hell the city will allow a private building over a roadway? I've asked him why, hoping for some more clarification.

Doesn't S+P's proposal also include a sizeable portion over 4th street? Will the city force the winner to abandon plans like that?

The concern would be servicing the utilities under the street, but 33' should be sufficient space to bring in an excavator.

[CorporateWhore]

I guess we'll see tonight whether the property over a street argument is legit. Muta works for Kasian btw, so it's not like he's just some bum off the street (ie Bigtime).

[You Need A Thneed]

Yeah, at 33' clearance, it just shouldn't be an issue. Do any utilities go under the Core mall downtown? That's quite a bit less then 33' Plus all the proposals have +15s anyway - any of the proposals would have the same clearance issues.

Also, the city has a fairly significant project that extends all the way underneath a road.

[Bigtime]

I guess we'll see tonight whether the property over a street argument is legit. Muta works for Kasian btw, so it's not like he's just some bum off the street (ie Bigtime).

I'm proud to be a "bum off the street". :cool:

Does Muta post over here? Different name perhaps?

[lubicon]

This week's Macleans magazine has a great article about the project. I can't find it online yet so no link, but if anyone has access to the magazine it is worth a read. A very positive article.

[Spring2008]

OMG there's too much happening on Calgary ssp to keep up today.

Somebody spill the beans, who's the contract going to????????:whip: :whip:

[Bigtime]

I don't think we'll know until at least 7pm tonight when the event begins at the Cantos building on 11th avenue. But I would bet they won't spill the beans until later in the evening. Ahhhh!

[jeffwhit]

+15s are privately owned.

[Bigtime]

The Sun reveals the results of their poll for the Cantos proposals:

The group tasked to spruce up the King Eddy is poised to reveal its design choice today after scrutinizing five proposals over the last two months.

But Sun readers have already made their choice and favoured the bidder from a Los Angeles studio, Pali Fekete Architects.

Since July 24, readers were asked to rate which they think should be the design. Out of more than 800 votes, 245 said it should be the one from L.A., followed by Paris' Jean Nouvel Workshop with 231 votes.

The 104-year-old King Edward Hotel is undergoing a $75-million facelift, part of a redevelopment of East Village, which over the years had become a haven for crime and homelessness.

Cantos Music Foundation, the group in charge of the facelift, will reveal its choice today. The foundation will try to recapture the hotel's history, from the ragtime piano that entertained patrons in its early years, to the blues that made it famous in the 1980s and 1990s. The group got about 70 proposals from around the globe, but the choices were sliced to five. The three other choices were Portland's Allied Works Architecture, which got 128 votes from Sun readers, New York's Diller Scofidio and Renfro, 120 votes, and Montreal's Saucier + Perrotte with 89.
Link (http://www.calgarysun.com/news/alberta/2009/09/23/11066641-sun.html)

[GoTall]

I don't think we'll know until at least 7pm tonight when the event begins at the Cantos building on 11th avenue. But I would bet they won't spill the beans until later in the evening. Ahhhh!

It will be in media for 6 pm news. and no problem on the utilities below any link or plus 15, not an obstacle.

[Wooster]

I hear public at 5:30.

[nick.flood]

I hear public at 5:30.

Hopefully you're right, I can't wait till 9.

Please be SPF:a and not S+P.

[earl69]

Just saw the renderings on Global news. Very cool! Not something I ever expected for that area.

Outfit from Portland, Oregon did the work.

[Wooster]

Allied. Wow, that's very surprising.

[Bigtime]

Allied? What the fuck? http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/6364/emotsuicide.gif

[nick.flood]

:breakcomp:

[Colin]

:breakcomp:

What he said

[nick.flood]

I guess playing the building as an instrument was enough.

[Bigtime]

I'm most dissapointed because this design will not stand out, it won't attract the eye and bring you in from a distance like pretty much every other proposal did.

If the East Village does build up this structure will be lost in it, the others at least had a chance to stand out.

[Plus15]

Sigh. Oh well, can't win 'em all. Its like Glenbow Museum 2 with gold half moons stuck to it. Yay.

[Calgarian]

They picked the worst design? I really hate this city sometimes.

[amaruk]

I've got to echo the above sentiments, I'm pretty disappointed with what was chosen.

[Wooster]

Well, according to our poll 3 people will be happy - Ramsayfarian, GoTall and Shogged.

I recall Ramsayfarian saying he liked this proposal the most because it was the only one that truly restored and respected the King Eddy.

It initially was my third choice behind SPF and DS+R, but it fell to 4th in my ranking. Nouvel was by far the worst proposal.

In the end the devil will be in the details with this one. If the materials are good, it could turn out well. I have a hard time picturing what it will actually look like.

[Witty Nickname]

:whatthefuck: :whatthefuck: :whatthefuck: :whatthefuck: :whatthefuck:

[KONYS]

This blows. SPF rocked this competition.

[Wooster]

Allied Works Architecture and BKDI selected to design Cantos’ National Music Centre in Calgary’s East Village

(Calgary, Alberta): Cantos Music Foundation made the announcement today that Allied Works Architecture and local partner BKDI have been selected to design Cantos’ new national music centre at the King Eddy site in Calgary’s East Village. After an extensive worldwide search and impressive public presentations from five international architects, this highly anticipated announcement is a milestone event in the creation of Canada’s only National Music Centre.

“The concept from Allied Works truly captured the heart and soul of this project,” said Andrew Mosker, executive director of the Cantos Music Foundation. “Brad and his team will give us an innovative building that fits with Calgary, Alberta, the West and is symbolic of something that is truly uniquely Canadian. This is an exciting day for Calgarians.”

Brad Cloepflil founded Allied Works Architecture in his native Portland, Oregon. In recent years, Allied Works has focused on several significant cultural and educational buildings throughout North America and can now add Cantos’ National Music Centre to their roster of impressive projects. Considered an emerging master in architectural circles, Cloepfil and his team have beat out some of the world’s biggest names in architecture in numerous international competitions over the last few years.

Allied Works’ recently completed projects include the Museum of Arts and Design in Manhattan, the Contemporary Art Museum in St. Louis, a major addition to the Seattle Art Museum, the Booker T. Washington High School for the Performing and Visual Arts in Dallas and the recently completed expansion of the University of Michigan Museum of Art.

“The national music centre is an extraordinary instrument, silent and powerful, brought to life by its programs, collections and performances. The new building forms rise as sentinels around the re-born King Eddy, marking the entry to the East Village and new Music District,” commented Brad Cloepfil, Allied Works Architecture.

In the last two years, the firm’s work has been featured in: Architectural Record / Record Houses, Architectural Review, Space Magazine, Wallpaper, The New Yorker, Blueprint, Metropolis.

On July 23rd, five world renowned architects were asked to develop and present a bold vision for the future of the Cantos Music Foundation and the national music centre. The request included the public presentation of concepts honouring the iconic King Eddy Hotel while creating over 80,000 square-feet of space for programs and exhibitions. The centre was required to house an education research centre, museum, collection of instruments and memorabilia, recording studios, a radio station, a seven-days-a-week live music venue and a suite of innovative and creative programs for people of all ages.

The four other competing architects were:

Studio Pali Fekete Architects: Los Angeles, California Diller Scofidio and Renfro: New York, NY
Jean Nouvel Workshop: Paris, France Saucier + Perrotte: Montreal, Quebec

The submissions were reviewed by a selection advisory committee comprised of musicians, architects, business experts, museum experts and others.

-30-

http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/newsrelease-architects/?show=slide

[You Need A Thneed]

I did think that the Allied Works Proposal was the second most thought out proposal, after SPF:a.

Agreed with the statement that it will standout the least, after the East Village is built up.

I still think it will be good, the materials they use will make the difference between good or bad.

The sections of the building DO look like organ pipes, which does have meaning to what Cantos does.

[CorporateWhore]

Wow, what a blow. Allied was the most uninspiring proposal out of all of them. This is truly disappointing.

[You Need A Thneed]

Wow, what a blow. Allied was the most uninspiring proposal out of all of them. This is truly disappointing.

Like the proposal or not, I certainly wouldn't say that Allied Works was the most uninspiring. They clearly put a lot of thought into the proposal. The thought going into the interior design - the museum space itself - was definately top 2.

[Radley77]

One thing I noticed is that the new renderings are different than the older renderings. In the following graphic note how the pedestrian overpass has been moved higher, and now incorporates a screen.

http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/wp-content/gallery/sept23/AWA_Rendering-exterior-night.jpg

Allied Works probably did the best job of understanding the needs of the client. I think flexibility and ability to work with Cantos to refine the design may make this a much better project than originally conceived.

I am curious what those grey structures in the top left corner are....?

[oldschoolcalgary]

wow...very very surprised at that...I had them only above Nouvel's entry...

the idea was interesting but the massing, esp the brutalist style of concrete (from what i recall) didn't seem that inviting to me...of course, buildings also need to function well too...so maybe that's where it beat the others?

AA is a very good firm though...

[Wooster]

I do like the overall shape of the building - a lot more than the ROM-esque DS+R (which would not have been able to be built with glass), which was most similar to this one.

The actual look of the exterior cladding remains a mystery to me. They seem to have a grain or some patterns of colour on them. I'm not sure how that works. Seems like a material like Prodema wood would be appropriate for this building form. As Radley pointed out, the bridge has moved.

[nick.flood]

One thing I noticed is that the new renderings are different than the older renderings. In the following graphic note how the pedestrian overpass has been moved higher, and now incorporates a screen.

http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/wp-content/gallery/sept23/AWA_Rendering-exterior-night.jpg

Allied Works probably did the best job of understanding the needs of the client. I think flexibility and ability to work with Cantos to refine the design may make this a much better project than originally conceived.

I am curious what those grey structures in the top left corner are....?

How did they get a chance to up their game after the submission? and replace the brick with what looks to be a very large scale wood veneer.

[Ramsayfarian]

Yeah!!!

I can't wait until I can have my first beer in the King Eddy Club.

It seems like Canto's was serious when they said the center should honour the historic legacy of the Eddy.

Despite the naysayers, I think this design will stand out even after the East Village is built up. Maybe not as much as some of the other designs though.

[You Need A Thneed]

How did they get a chance to up their game after the submission? and replace the brick with what looks to be a very large scale wood veneer.

I think all the shortlisted firms got the opportunity to refine their design after they were shortlisted.

Looking at that night rendering, I still think the building will look pretty good from the outside, perhaps it won''t have quite the WOW appeal from the outside as some of the others, but it'll still WOW on the inside, and will still turn eyes on its outside appearance too.

Ultimately, Cantos thought this proposal met their needs the best. I don't think any of us can argue otherwise.

[Calgarian]

Why am I not surprised that the building that was chosen will also be the easiest to build. Calgary NEEDS a building that is not a box or boxy in shape, Architecture in this city is pathetic, and while this building is certainly better than 99% of the buildings here, I'm really disappointed that we didn't get one of the better designs because we really need it.

[Surrealplaces]

I was hoping for the SPF design top be chosen, but I don't think this design is that bad......actually after watching the video again, I can see potential in it.

-I like the way the east block is a collection of individual buildings tied together
-I agree with Ramsayfarian on the restoration part of the King Eddie. This proposal pays the most respect to the legendary hotel.

With the right materials this could be a very good project. Don't forget, we've only seen a couple of artist renderings. Not much to go by on a project this involved.

[devonb]

:previous:

Exactly my thoughts

[Witty Nickname]

It's disappointing...

The white is boring as vanilla and what's up with the giant gold funnels on the roof? Looks like a massive ashtray.

I wouldn't be surprised if their bid had the lowest cost.

Prove us wrong Allied Works and create something that we can be proud of.

[CorporateWhore]

If anyone has ever visited the Museum of Arts & Design project that Allied completed in NY recently, they would be as equally as dejected as I am. I really hope this thing turns out good, but I feel like it's a lost opportunity for Calgary. For all the positive vibes and discussion it created, Cantos let us down.

[Calgarian]

This will still be a great building, I have no doubt, I just think SPF's design could have been spectacular.

[unibrain]

I was hoping for the SPF design top be chosen, but I don't think this design is that bad......actually after watching the video again, I can see potential in it.

-I like the way the east block is a collection of individual buildings tied together
-I agree with Ramsayfarian on the restoration part of the King Eddie. This proposal pays the most respect to the legendary hotel.

With the right materials this could be a very good project. Don't forget, we've only seen a couple of artist renderings. Not much to go by on a project this involved.

Wait, so the building on the East block is a collection of buildings put together? As in you have to walk outside between each building? Say it aint so!!

If not, I suppose each "alley" between each "building" will be filled in with glass.

[O-tacular]

W T F?!

:yuck: :koko: :omg: :Titanic: :babyeat: :maddown: :ancient: :whatthefuck: :rant:

Haven't posted in months, but had to put in my 2 cents. I knew they'd pick the shittiest one. It's like they re-designed ACAD.

[Bokimon]

I'm also dissapointed. During the presentation I basically bored thru the Allied Works design as it was the least that caught the interest of my eye. Maybe it isn't the style of design that I like. Forgive me but I feel influenced with what other cities are doing with their iconic projects and I thought that Calgary could get a pow-wow punch with stuff like SPF or DS-R which I really really liked the most.

My bet is that cost and value engineering was on the minds of these guys and to save the most money this one seems to fit the criteria. Fuck, this city and many of its projects are cursed with this cost cutting audit on many projects.

Even though this one was the least of my favorite designs, I still think they can be able to pull it off and make it look truly nice. They are afterall, from Portland and that city is filled with some great modern buildings which works so very very well.

[jeffwhit]

The sections of the building DO look like organ pipes, which does have meaning to what Cantos does.

Does every building have to be a metaphor for it's function/location for people to accept it though? gah.

[ummagumma66]

boooo to Allied.

[Radley77]

I think the AW concept of creating some acoustic separation between the buildings is an intelligent idea. I played in wind orchestra throughout university, and I remember how the music used to travel all through the education building. Rooms were created with those foamy triangle cones to absorb and dissipate the sound into the wall, but it was difficult to contain sound contamination.

Using the wood paneling, as in the SPF design, would reflect the sound very strongly. Sound is propogated best when there is a high differential in density and is absorbed best when there is a low differential in density. The effect of the sound would be similar to the overlap you sometimes get when two radio stations are tuned in simultaneously.

The AW concept of trying to modulate the sound to suit each individual chamber and creation of places of silence to cleanse the aural palate may have ultimately been what was the most appealing attribute to the Cantos directors.

I also think the new design is improved and I like the idea of having a screen as a projection, and having the roof of King Eddy as a place to watch the screen or a lounge. I also like how the light creeps out of the buildings, and invites curiousity, not unlike the SPF design. The creation of an open viewing space in the bottom of the southwestern chamber east block also has an attractive street presence (no wall effect).

[wild wild west]

This is probably my least favourite of the 5 designs, to have it picked is disappointing. Like many others I was rooting for the SPF design. Ah well. I trust that Cantos chose the best plan based on their needs and it'll still be an important catalyst for both the East Village and the city's cultural scene. The one thing I do like about this concept compared to the others is it is the only one that seems to have attempted to complement the original Eddy building rather than overwhelming it. The architecture doesn't excite but the massing is appropriate. I was also thinking that perhaps some of the other designs may have been too ambitious in scale (particularly Jean Nouvel's) considering the limited budget. Speaking of which, the real battle starts now, getting the funding in place.

[Wooster]

Winning proposal distilled 'true essence' of project
Firm's founder has Alberta connections

CALGARY - Allied Works Architecture of Portland, Ore., and New York City is the winner of an international architectural competition to design the new National Music Centre at the King Eddy, it was announced Wednesday by the Cantos Music Foundation.

Brad Cloepfil, the firm's 54-year-old founder, said he was thrilled to win the $100-million project, which offers a once-in-a-career opportunity to invent a new kind of institution, a museum for the 21st century.

"The initial thing that caught my eye was the complexity of the vision in the description of what the National Music Centre aspired to be," Cloepfil said. "It was so many different things. It was like nothing I had ever heard of, no nameable institution. It's not just a museum, it's not just performance space. It has this crazy blues club associated with it. It was quite a far-ranging vision.

"To be a part of inventing a new institution, that's something you don't encounter."

Cloepfil and 65 other international architectural firms answered the call for expressions of interest (EOI) sent out by the Cantos, which is transforming itself into the National Music Centre.

The building program called for incorporating the historic King Edward Hotel, which became a legendary blues bar known fondly as the King Eddy, until the building was condemned in 2004.

If all goes according to plan, the King Eddy component of the project, a live music venue and lounge, will be completed first, in time for the 100th anniversary of the Calgary Stampede in 2012.

Allied Works, which partnered with local firm BKDI, was chosen from a short list of top international competitors: Diller Scofidio+Renfro, New York, with Kasian, Calgary; Ateliers Jean Nouvel, Paris, France; Saucier + Perrotte, Montreal; and Studio Pali-Fetke, Los Angeles. All five architects presented their proposals at a public event at the Grand theatre on July 23.

Cloepfil's proposal envisions a five-storey building designed as a series of "resonant vessels" or instruments orchestrated by the collections and programs of the new building.

"We really do see the building as an instrument," Cloepfil said last July. "The body of the building is designed and detailed to refer to instrument cases, while the freer forms of the interior are influenced by acoustics. Entering an exhibition gallery, a visitor will activate a threshold of sound, there will be ambient sound throughout and an interactive acoustical area where visitors can make sound with their bodies. Silence will also be present as an important element of the soundscape."

The new building also refers to the western landscape with canyons of space in its interior and an exterior clad with visually rich material that could possibly be stone veneer.

"There is a monumentality to the design that is intended to evoke the spirit of place," said Cloepfil, who is known for the influence of the landscape on his work.

The National Music Centre at the King Eddy, to be located in the East Village, will comprise a collection of musical instruments that ranges from harpsichords to electronic keyboards, spaces for performance and education, a recording studio and a radio broadcast facility for the radio station CKUA.

Cantos needs to raise $75 million for the capital cost of the building and another $25 million for an operating endowment.

Allied Works was a frontrunner in the competition from the beginning, said Andrew Mosker, executive director of the Cantos Music Foundation.

"I would say Allied Works, better than any other firm, going back to the EOI phase, has been able to distil the true essence of our project. All 66 of those EOIs were spread out on the project room table and Allied Works' was the first one I read, for no particular reason.

"I remember the first thing that struck me about their EOI was the way they addressed every single aspect of the project. The vision and understanding of what we wanted to build, their related experience with cultural, and particularly music museum, projects."

Among the other commissions Allied Works has won through international design competitions are the Booker T. Washington School for the Performing and Visual Arts, Dallas, Texas; the Museum of Arts and Design, New York; the Clyfford Still Museum, Denver, Colo., and the Walt Disney Animation, Pixar Animation Studios, Los Angeles and Emeryville, Calif.

Allied designed the Contemporary Art Museum St. Louis, the University of Michigan Museum of Art, and the 12-storey expansion of the Seattle Art Museum, which was added to a building designed by Venturi, Scott Brown and Associates.

The public favourite in an online survey was the proposal by Studio Pali-Fekete, Los Angeles.

Cloepfil, who will be spending every other week in Calgary for the next three or four years, has ties to Calgary, where he has had friends for 40 years, and to Alberta.

His maternal grandmother was from Tees, near Red Deer.

He said he is looking forward to fly-fishing here and to skiing.

When asked if it is possible to bring the project in on its $75-million budget, Cloepfil said, "As possible as it is to bring any building in on budget."

ntousley@theherald. canwest.com

http://www.calgaryherald.com/entertainment/Winning+proposal+distilled+true+essence+project/2026349/story.html

[CorporateWhore]

Does every building have to be a metaphor for it's function/location for people to accept it though? gah.

No kidding....im getting tired of the fact that everything has to have a local story and deep metaphorical tie-in. Can't we just build something that looks kick-ass? :cool:

[GoTall]

One thing I noticed is that the new renderings are different than the older renderings. In the following graphic note how the pedestrian overpass has been moved higher, and now incorporates a screen.

http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/wp-content/gallery/sept23/AWA_Rendering-exterior-night.jpg

Allied Works probably did the best job of understanding the needs of the client. I think flexibility and ability to work with Cantos to refine the design may make this a much better project than originally conceived.

I am curious what those grey structures in the top left corner are....?

Ability to work with Cantos to refine the design and work together sounded like a key part of the decision in last nights speeches from Cantos, so I would say you are bang on.

[Wooster]

I'm sure Cantos had lots of great and perfectly valid reasons for picking Allied. I'm just disappointed that the best and most striking design from a civic standpoint wasn't chosen (SPF:a). I would feel this way whether it was Allied, DS+R, S+P or Nouvel that was chosen.

The Allied design reminds me of something like a Louis Kahn building. I just hope after all the modifications, detailed design, budget considerations that it turns out great - the actual facade material choices will have a lot to do with whether it is successful. Even though the metaphors are a bit overwrought, I do like the proposal. The entire restoration of the Eddy including the back portion is also a big plus.

[CorporateWhore]

The Allied design reminds me of something like a Louis Kahn building.

Funny, I was thinking that myself. If there was someone who mastered the beauty of materials, it was Kahn. We can only hope Allied comes close, as I think this project will live or die by the materials....it has to since the shapes themselves are just not that unique.

[Just Build It]

I'll wait until I see some more detailed rendering before I decide whether I like it or not. I've only seen a couple of conceptual drawings, the real thing could be quite a bit different.

[Calgarian]

I really want to know what materials they are going to use on the Cantos. I pretty much guarantee it will be some sort of brick or stone. The materials will be very important to the quality of the building, so I hope they don't go with a beige brick or fake sandstone.

[You Need A Thneed]

I really want to know what materials they are going to use on the Cantos. I pretty much guarantee it will be some sort of brick or stone. The materials will be very important to the quality of the building, so I hope they don't go with a beige brick or fake sandstone.

There's the random variation in colour in the facade on the renderings that suggests something other then standard brick or stone. Sort of like the grain in wood or the natural variation in marble. I don't think brick or sandstone is really going to give that look.

[Calgarian]

There's the random variation in colour in the facade on the renderings that suggests something other then standard brick or stone. Sort of like the grain in wood or the natural variation in marble. I don't think brick or sandstone is really going to give that look.

It almost looks like something is going to be projected on the side of the building.

[earthclaim]

Lets hope it isn't brick or sandstone, the comment about stone veneer does give hope that it might not be and the new rendering plus some of the earlier ones did make it look like a wood finish a la prodema was being considered. Nice to see they changed the +15, in the original renderings this always seemed like a tacked on out of context afterthought to me, now it seems more appropriate to the design.

[CtrlAltDel]

No kidding....im getting tired of the fact that everything has to have a local story and deep metaphorical tie-in. Can't we just build something that looks kick-ass? :cool:

Agreed, this winning entry is so safe and bland. Such a disappointment!

[Radley77]

Another thing is I think the SPF may have led to disappoint down the road as the renderings need to reflect engineering feasibility. For example, the glass observation ground level observation room lacks structural supports in the atrium column. Even if the atrium column was extended downard, it would be a poor structural support as the load would be placed instead of in a compressive (strongest) load bearing it would have to be able to withstand large shear forces. The entire glass observation room if used for load bearing purposes would require steel crossmembers. Some of the things that make the SPF design more iconic, would have had to be changed significantly to conform with what is technically feasible. The lack of crossmembers, and poor load carrying capabilities of the large internal glass sections would need to transfer the load laterally without shearing or bending. I imagine also that the slanted atrium would not look as impressive when you have to consider that an elevator bank would also have to be placed there for wheelchair access. Start putting in some more trusses for structural support and the SPF building is not going to have the same effect.

[Danma]

No offense to everyone, but Cantos's needs are more important than architecture (gasp!) as this building won on its ability to serve the needs of the foundation. Cantos lives and dies on its ability to deliver its programs effectively and providing content that attracts visitors and performers... and while I think having an interesting and thought-provoking home is part of that, if the other architects weren't going to meet their needs to deliver its programs then they were right to pass on them, regardless of the creativity of their designs.

[You Need A Thneed]

Another thing is I think the SPF may have led to disappoint down the road as the renderings need to reflect engineering feasibility. For example, the glass observation ground level observation room lacks structural supports in the atrium column. Even if the atrium column was extended downard, it would be a poor structural support as the load would be placed instead of in a compressive (strongest) load bearing it would have to be able to withstand large shear forces. The entire glass observation room if used for load bearing purposes would require steel crossmembers. Some of the things that make the SPF design more iconic, would have had to be changed significantly to conform with what is technically feasible. The lack of crossmembers, and poor load carrying capabilities of the large internal glass sections would need to transfer the load laterally without shearing or bending. I imagine also that the slanted atrium would not look as impressive when you have to consider that an elevator bank would also have to be placed there for wheelchair access. Start putting in some more trusses for structural support and the SPF building is not going to have the same effect.

My original thoughts on that subject when I looked at the renderings when they first came out was that the S&P and the DSR ones would have to be the most changed due to technical feasibilty.

As for the SPF one, I don't think it would necessarily have to look much different then the rendering. Post tensioned concrete slabs should probobly work to hold those floors up over the street. I don't think you'd need any steel members.

I also don't think that these guys forget to put elevators and stuff like that into their proposals.

[CorporateWhore]

No offense to everyone, but Cantos's needs are more important than architecture (gasp!) as this building won on its ability to serve the needs of the foundation. Cantos lives and dies on its ability to deliver its programs effectively and providing content that attracts visitors and performers... and while I think having an interesting and thought-provoking home is part of that, if the other architects weren't going to meet their needs to deliver its programs then they were right to pass on them, regardless of the creativity of their designs.

Then why bother having such a high profile public competition? We were lead to believe that this project was about more than just satisfying an internal need for a building, it was hailed as a catalyst for architecture in this city for the future. If they weren't interested in trying anything progressive, then they shouldn't even have bothered short-listing some of these candidates, and just gone to a specific architecture firm from the start.

I seriously doubt that none of the other candidates could not have made some changes to their proposal to reflect a little bit of reality....but atleast they started from a point where they pushed the limit, and would have to be pulled back a bit. Allied to me, while of course not horrible, feels like a proposal that still needs to be pushed forward.

[O-tacular]

It looks like bad 90's interactive art and architecture.

[Ramsayfarian]

Then why bother having such a high profile public competition? We were lead to believe that this project was about more than just satisfying an internal need for a building, it was hailed as a catalyst for architecture in this city for the future. If they weren't interested in trying anything progressive, then they shouldn't even have bothered short-listing some of these candidates, and just gone to a specific architecture firm from the start.

I seriously doubt that none of the other candidates could not have made some changes to their proposal to reflect a little bit of reality....but atleast they started from a point where they pushed the limit, and would have to be pulled back a bit. Allied to me, while of course not horrible, feels like a proposal that still needs to be pushed forward.


At the end of the day, Cantos needs a functional space that fits their needs. If the others firms couldn't come up with something functional, that's the firm's fault not Cantos.

Spending 100 million on something that looks really cool but doesn't quite suit your needs isn't that smart.


It's a shame that we will probably never know the reasons why the other designs weren't picked. I'm guessing SPF was a combination of budget constraints and functionality.

[Wooster]

The concepts all had extremely different theories on how the collection would be showcased and how/where the various performance spaces would be conceived, which I'm sure were both big factors.

If Cantos fundamentally disagreed with these programming arrangements there would be no way to really tweek the concept designs without totally redesigning. Perhaps the Allied proposal was the only one that truly matched their vision for this institution.

[Bigtime]

Well I have had a night to sleep on the decision, I'm not quite as upset as last night.

I hope the materials really blow us away and make this project come alive.

Now it is up to the folks at Cantos to get the rest of the money and start this project ASAP.

[KONYS]

Allied may better suit the purposes of Cantos on the inside, but it fails miserably in providing a building that is a point of interest in and of itself. As drawing tourists and residents to an East Village music museum might not be very easy, I assumed that having a stunning building and creating a destination point was part of their strategy for success. Apparently not.

Perhaps though publicity was the whole point of all this. Use the competition to get your name out and then choose the dressed up box you wanted all along. Cynical yes, but perhaps true.

[Wooster]

^ It's certainly not as bombastic as some of the others but I give the design more credit than that. I think it will be striking (depending on the materials/execution - but that could have been said of any of the proposals)

[You Need A Thneed]

With proper materials, it'll be more striking than S&Ps design (which I don't think was particularly striking at all), and perhaps the Nouvel design (though that one certainly had height).

[KONYS]

I hope you guys are right that the materials will make the building striking. I think I am still just pissed off that SPF:a lost:haha: . I just hope that it isn't covered in wood veneer and that the gold parts don't end up being Trump-ish. No matter how you slice it though, it sure as hell is better than what is there now!

[Ramsayfarian]

The concepts all had extremely different theories on how the collection would be showcased and how/where the various performance spaces would be conceived, which I'm sure were both big factors.

If Cantos fundamentally disagreed with these programming arrangements there would be no way to really tweek the concept designs without totally redesigning. Perhaps the Allied proposal was the only one that truly matched their vision for this institution.

Another factor might be that the Allied design can be done in stages, with the first stage being The Eddy.

[Wooster]

^ That's true. The article seems to indicate they want to open the Eddy portion no later than 2012 in time for Stampede Centennial.

[Bigtime]

^ It's certainly not as bombastic as some of the others but I give the design more credit than that. I think it will be striking (depending on the materials/execution - but that could have been said of any of the proposals)

So how about a couple of tourists up in the Calgary tower are looking down at the city, will they notice the Cantos in this form? You can sure bet they would have noticed the other proposals. I'm not quite so sure about this one.

[Ramsayfarian]

So how about a couple of tourists up in the Calgary tower are looking down at the city, will they notice the Cantos in this form? You can sure bet they would have noticed the other proposals. I'm not quite so sure about this one.

The only thing they're going to notice is The Bow and you out on your balcony taking photos whilst wearing a banana hammock.

[Wooster]

^ That's hard to say, perhaps not. I don't know.

More than anything from that vantage point a dense and lively looking East Village would probably be the enticement.

The Eddy location isn't a particularly iconic location (that's not to say the building itself can't/shouldn't be iconic) compared to say Louise Crossing or the NE corner of East Village or the Library location opposite Olympic Plaza. Facing the eddy is a power plant and an underpass, not an important civic plaza or river valley. It will be difficult to view this project from a far. Therefore, I think it's most important how it looks standing right beside it or across the street, similar to say - the Guggenheim in New York.

This is what puzzled me about the Nouvel proposal, even though it is a tower, from most angles it will be obscured by existing or future tall building development. It was meant to be viewed from a far, which didn't seem appropriate for this site.

[Ramsayfarian]

^ That's hard to say, perhaps not. I don't know.

More than anything from that vantage point a dense and lively looking East Village would probably be the enticement.

The Eddy location isn't a particularly iconic location (that's not to say the building itself can't/shouldn't be iconic) compared to say Louise Crossing or the NE corner of East Village or the Library location opposite Olympic Plaza. Facing the eddy is a power plant and an underpass, not an important civic plaza or river valley. It will be difficult to view this project from a far. Therefore, I think it's most important how it looks standing right beside it or across the street, similar to say - the Guggenheim in New York.

This is what puzzled me about the Nouvel proposal, even though it is a tower, from most angles it will be obscured by existing or future tall building development. It was meant to be viewed from a far, which didn't seem appropriate for this site.


Don't forget the Sally Anne is directly west of it, which pretty much would have blocked all the proposals except for Nouvel's.

[lubicon]

For the record, the article in Macleans I referred to earlier is now online.

The writer of the opinion piece liked the SPF proposal, which I suppose is moot now.

link

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/09/24/this-is-who-should-win-in-calgary/

by Paul Wells on Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:20am

One night in July, hundreds of Calgarians packed a downtown theatre to watch five architectural firms from Canada, the U.S. and France defend their plans for turning the King Edward Hotel, a decrepit old blues spot where Ralph Klein held down the bar for most of the 1980s, into the cornerstone of a $100-million, 80,000-sq.-foot National Music Centre. A jury will announce the winner on Sept. 23. But the broader public has been invited to follow every step.

“The great thing about this contest’s organizers is they made the contest so open and allowed the competitors to see one another’s work, which is really unusual,” Elizabeth Diller of the blue-chip New York City firm Diller Scofidio + Renfro said in an interview. “It was excruciating, because you come in and you’re so focused on your project. The idea of getting a sense of your competitors is very destabilizing. But it made for a very interesting event.”
The National Music Centre is ambitious in several ways. As the next step in the evolution of the city’s Cantos Music Foundation, it will serve as a museum for an impressive collection of historical musical instruments, from clavichords to synthesizers, most of which visitors are actually encouraged to play. It will turn the King Eddy back into a thriving performance space. Beyond that, the King Eddy project is designed as the cornerstone for Calgary’s East Village redevelopment. The city’s government is betting big on its ability to turn the stately old district, gone badly to seed in recent decades, back into a showpiece. But to do that they have to get the King Eddy choice right. And to do that, the competition jury will have to be as unorthodox in its final choice as Cantos has been throughout the process.

The short list includes one genuine “starchitect,” Jean Nouvel. The Paris-based winner of the 2008 Pritzker Prize bet everything on one idea for the King Eddy site: a 2001-style slab rising high over the shell of the old blues bar, so video from outdoor concerts could be projected on the side of the building. It’s iconic. And forgettable.

Two prominent American firms bring real ingenuity to their proposals. Diller Scofidio sought a coherent philosophy for tackling the King Eddy project’s jumble of mandates as a museum, concert hall, school and more. “It wasn’t just black or white. There was nothing pure about it,” Elizabeth Diller says. “Which leads to complexities: you can’t answer it in one fell swoop.” She decided to make the musical instrument collection the focus. Her design is built around dozens of small display rooms showcased through an interior glass wall.

Where Diller lets the instruments shape the building, Portland architect Brad Cloepfil of Allied Works Architecture sees the building as an instrument. Cloepfil wants to store the Cantos collection in a cluster of white towers he calls “resonant vessels,” and is working with a Portland new media firm to design an interactive atrium that would allow visitors to “play” an entire building. It’s a vague but tantalizing notion. Montreal’s Saucier + Perotte, the only Canadian firm on the short list, came up with a design for a sturdy but undistinguished building.

But it’s the most obscure name on the short list, SPF:a, that has made the most promising bid. SPF:a is a boutique Los Angeles firm run by Zoltan Pali, an unassuming young architect without a fraction of his competitors’ reputation. But the passion he’s brought to every step of the Calgary competition is obvious. Pali offers the most elegant solution to the King Eddy project’s awkward geometry, which uses two sites on either side of 4th Street. Instead of running a footbridge between two buildings, Pali’s whole building is a bridge. It’s such an elegant solution that Pali’s building looks quite plain from the outside. But inside, he runs a breathtaking angled atrium through the entire building, a “soundscape” that would bring all the building’s sounds down to the entrance. “We wanted to get people excited and interested about what goes on in the inside, because that’s where the show is,” Pali said. “That’s where things are happening.”

The technical challenges of Pali’s design are daunting, but the care he has brought to his solutions is obvious. In the least-known architect in this competition, the National Music Centre has the best chance of making a building Calgarians will notice and remember.

[Wooster]

I hope the cantos extension does feel comfortable from the street. One thing I loved about the SPF design was the transparency of the ground floor inviting you to look in and engage with what's going on inside. The Allied proposal has its entrance at 9th and 4th, some transparency on 4th street, and on the west side of the eddy, but not much on the eastern part of the 9th ave facade.

[nick.flood]

So how about a couple of tourists up in the Calgary tower are looking down at the city, will they notice the Cantos in this form? You can sure bet they would have noticed the other proposals. I'm not quite so sure about this one.

It'll depend on the roof treatment of this one. It's seems to me that the "gold" isn't suggested to be gold but brass in reference to wind instruments and the wood exterior that of an exterior carcase of a stringed instrument. If the roof can be a graphic take on the bell mouths of wind instruments it could be quite interesting.

[You Need A Thneed]

It'll depend on the roof treatment of this one. It's seems to me that the "gold" isn't suggested to be gold but brass in reference to wind instruments and the wood exterior that of an exterior carcase of a stringed instrument. If the roof can be a graphic take on the bell mouths of wind instruments it could be quite interesting.

If the roof looks anything like the top of the little blocks in their design explanation video, it could look interesting enough.

The first picture here. (http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/newsrelease-architects/)

[Bassic Lab]

I'd be far more disappointed were it not for the new rendering. They seem to have taken some of the best elements of the other proposals and incorporated them into the Allied design. The more imposing bridge structure is reminiscent of the SPF:a proposal. The screen has been lifted directly from Nouvel, and it was the single most inspired (if not the only positive) aspect of that proposal. There also seems to have been a change in materials that has really improved the design, although that may just be due to the lighting.

I still would have preferred the SPF:a design which I think would have been a truly iconic entrance for the East Village from the south but the improvements to the Allied proposal have elevated it to a closer second place (whereas before it was at best a distant fourth if not behind even Nouvel).

[You Need A Thneed]

Hi Res renderings available for download. (http://cantos.ca/kingeddy/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/HiRes.zip)

[shogged]

So after watching the videos, listening to what the designers had to say about their projects, my initial impressions were swayed quite a bit. So at the end of the day, any one of those would be a great asset to our city. They each offer something unique and just get me excited thinking about having that kind of cultural space as an anchor in the east village!

So in order of my preference...


1) Allied - This was by far the least visually striking of the 5 designs, in fact my first impression was like "gold and white box? MEH" After watching the video and seeing the concept... the playable building, the focus on the heartbeat (concert space) and the silence places, it all struck a chord (haha) with me as a great design both architecturally and for practicality. While I don't think this is going to gain us international recognition for having this great stand-out building, I think the benefits gained from the concept far out way any loss of international fame

2) SPF - This was a tough call, because the next choice I think is pretty equal in terms of striking looks and function, but I really like the 33 foot high gap over the road, leaving room for light. I think this will make for an excellent street presence, complete with the seasonal opening in the side of the lobby. The wooden staircase is striking on its own, and I do like the concept of music though out the building.

3) DSR - This is again, a beautiful design with alot of function built in. Highlights are the atrium staircase with the individual instrument rooms, which i'd assume are for lessons? I was having a hard time wrapping my head around the practicality of large numbers of such small rooms, but I guess they have a plan in the end. I also liked the use of the old king eddy as a concert hall, the design of which I really liked. Again, this really could have been in 2nd place, I think its really great!

4) S+P - Out of all 5, this was my favorite in terms of overall look. I think its awesome, I love the angles, I love the double bridge, and I love the materials and colors. Only problem I have with it though, is it just doesn't feel like a music centre. To me, this is an art gallery! I just couldn't get past the fact when watching the videos and comparing the designs, so thats why i've placed it at number 4. At the end of the day though, if it just came down to wanting a great looking building for Calgary, 2 3 or 4 would satisfy my needs!

5) Nouvel - I think this is a great example of how height does not = better. This to me is just a giant wall that blocks off the east village from the rest of downtown. Its also kind of hard to tell if it really is a giant wall on the one side, or if there will be windows of some kind. I also think it looks quite awkward sitting on top of the old king eddy in original form. Bottom line, I just picture it sticking out like a sore thumb. Highlights, I like the idea of the public space, but I think the other designs are going with the street presence as their public space, which I tend to enjoy more. Rather drive by a great glass lobby than the side of a skyscraper perched atop an old, smaller footprinted (sic) hotel. I also like the section of the tower that jots out from the structure, giving a kind of viewing portal.

Just to restate it though, at the end of the day i'd be happy with any of the 5!


so this is quoted from another thread, but this was the process behind my decision for liking the allied project overall! I think my reason for choosing allied still stands, its certainly not the most visually striking but again, it fit the bill the best and it looks like cantos agreed!

I think alot of you should wait until the structure is finished though before decided if its going to be the tourist draw that we all thought SPF etc would have been. Perhaps while this doesn't scream at us in terms of "Landmark", the biggest draw might be the contents of the building instead... so we still get the benefit to the east village at the end of the day!

[You Need A Thneed]

I must say, looking at the renderings again, and seeing the high res renderings, and imagining myself inside the building, I'm quite excited for this proposal.

[Danma]

Then why bother having such a high profile public competition? We were lead to believe that this project was about more than just satisfying an internal need for a building, it was hailed as a catalyst for architecture in this city for the future. If they weren't interested in trying anything progressive, then they shouldn't even have bothered short-listing some of these candidates, and just gone to a specific architecture firm from the start.

I seriously doubt that none of the other candidates could not have made some changes to their proposal to reflect a little bit of reality....but atleast they started from a point where they pushed the limit, and would have to be pulled back a bit. Allied to me, while of course not horrible, feels like a proposal that still needs to be pushed forward.

Fair enough, fair enough. All I was trying to suggest was that perhaps to them the internal vision was more compelling to them in this case, and fit more with how they want to use the space. I wanted SPF to win, myself, from a pure design perspective but I know that I don't understand their needs like they do, I just know what I like! :)

[Innersoul1]

I must say, looking at the renderings again, and seeing the high res renderings, and imagining myself inside the building, I'm quite excited for this proposal.

I am still torn, even with the new renderings I can't get a good feel for this one. It still leaves me asking a lot of questions as far as the overall look of the exterior and how the individual structures will be enclosed. As a number of you have mentioned materials will really dictate how this one ends up!

[earthclaim]

I have actually always liked the more sculptural look to this proposal and sure hope it works out OK. Materials will definitely be key - I think that the real trick will be making sure the contrast between the majority of the structure and the brass/gold accents doesn't make the building seem garish or cheap.