[Wooster]

^ Riverwalk is the most significant project related to the pathway system. It is a very big investment.

Hopefully it will eventually lead west through the West Village. That would be fantastic.

More than pathways however, streetscapes need investment.

[Calgarian]

What would you have liked to have seen instead?

For the amount of money spent, we got a pretty damn good bridge, and for the exact amount of money there is very little we could get, but that $25 million would have been better spent on any number of higher prioirity projects like a new library, new rec centres, schools, transit...

I'm a fan of the bridge, and can't wait to see it done, but I don't think it should have been pushed through in the way it was, at the time it was. That being said, it's being built now, so it's kind of a pointless debate.

[Calgarian]

I think it's a bit of stretch calling this bridge world-class.

To start, they could have put it in a better location, maybe one that's not adjacent to a heli-pad so we could at least get a bridge that looks like a Calatrava.

Or maybe gone to council to get it approved before actually signing the contract with Calatrava.

I would have rather seen the money spent on either expanding or improving our path system, which actually is world class.

I would say this bridge is world class, absolutely. It's not a big soaring cable stayed bridge for ovbious reasons, and I agree that the location is not the best, I would have liked to have seen another connection to Prince's Island.

Speaking of the Riverwalk, has anyone been down there lately? the first part must be nearing completion by now.

[kw5150]

For the amount of money spent, we got a pretty damn good bridge, and for the exact amount of money there is very little we could get, but that $25 million would have been better spent on any number of higher prioirity projects like a new library, new rec centres, schools, transit...

I'm a fan of the bridge, and can't wait to see it done, but I don't think it should have been pushed through in the way it was, at the time it was. That being said, it's being built now, so it's kind of a pointless debate.

I would argue and say that the fact that the 2 billion dollar ring road was pushed through in the time when construction was most expensive is worse...... there are not even many people using it yet!! It could have waited a couple more years......but that is just my opinion.

What about the stupid arport tunnel as well? There are roads really close to the tunnel, so you could argue that it doesn't need to be built either. This is such a dead issue people.

The library will get built as soon as Calgary is finished getting it "Super Freeway Network." Did you know that Winnipeg (with 700,000 people) only has 14 interchanges??? Calgary has something like 70!!

The calatrave bridge needs to get built. Maybe we should question how the City of Calgary is getting planned and constructed. No one ever seems to question why we need so many roads or question the cost of them.

My .02

[Ramsayfarian]

For the amount of money spent, we got a pretty damn good bridge, and for the exact amount of money there is very little we could get, but that $25 million would have been better spent on any number of higher prioirity projects like a new library, new rec centres, schools, transit...

I'm a fan of the bridge, and can't wait to see it done, but I don't think it should have been pushed through in the way it was, at the time it was. That being said, it's being built now, so it's kind of a pointless debate.

It was pushed through as the city had already signed a contract with Calatrava. Instead of being fired the civic employee who did that has retired and is now consulting for the city. Fuck them until I am one of them. :)

I agree though, that the damage is done and it is a pointless debate.

[fusili]

I would argue and say that the fact that the 2 billion dollar ring road was pushed through in the time when construction was most expensive is worse...... there are not even many people using it yet!!

That was the provinces decision, not the city's. I really don't like how the province is making decisions that has drastic consequences for the city with little consultation.

The library will get built as soon as Calgary is finished getting it "Super Freeway Network." Did you know that Winnipeg (with 700,000 people) only has 14 interchanges??? Calgary has something like 70!!


You don't notice it until you go other places, but Calgary is way over built in terms of road infrastructure (ok, Houston is worse, but that isn't saying much). The amount of roads and massive interchanges in this city is staggering.

[TallDrinkofWater]

I think 25 mill for a world-class bridge is very solid use of money. There aren't a lot of things that you could've spent it on that will have as much of a lasting effect.

What is using an answer to define the problem for 500?

[CorporateWhore]

I think it's a bit of stretch calling this bridge world-class.

Everything Calatrava does is pretty much world-class quality. It's going to be just as nice as anything else he's done. If not world-class....at least Canada-class!


To start, they could have put it in a better location, maybe one that's not adjacent to a heli-pad so we could at least get a bridge that looks like a Calatrava.

It's not only a Calatrava, it's an original Calatrava. White fancy-mast bridges are so 10 years ago. Location is debatable I guess.


Or maybe gone to council to get it approved before actually signing the contract with Calatrava.


There's nothing wrong with going to the expert once in a while. You're guaranteed good work, instead of the hit or miss results you get dicking around with amateurs. Look at St. Patrick's Island entrants.....there's like 40 of them, and none of them come close to the Peace Bridge even though they had less restraints.

If it went to council, we'd end up with a water-downed piece of cheap crap designed by some council crony. Actually, we'd probably get nothing at all. This council can't do anything without turning into a politically-motivated squabble.

And yeah, that pathway is pretty awesome.

[eggbert]

It was pushed through as the city had already signed a contract with Calatrava. Instead of being fired the civic employee who did that has retired and is now consulting for the city. Fuck them until I am one of them. :)

I agree though, that the damage is done and it is a pointless debate.

:haha: :haha: :haha:

[shreddog]

I can't remember, but what were the strings around the $25M used for the bridge - wasn't this provincial money that had to be spent on transportation related capital expendatures?? If so, this money could never have been used for rec centres, schools, etc. Perhaps another interchange or rec path expansion.

Unfortunately money is not all the same, and sometimes it can only be used for specific purposes. I know that I'd rather have this bridge than another interchange.

[shreddog]

I can't remember, but what were the strings around the $25M used for the bridge - wasn't this provincial money that had to be spent on transportation related capital expendatures??
Taken directly from the City's Peace Bridge (http://www.calgary.ca/docgallery/bu/transportation_infrastructure/peace_bridge/peace_bridge_faq_final.pdf)FAQ page :

5. Where is funding coming from for the Peace Bridge?

Funding for this capital project is provided by the Province through the Municipal Sustainability Initative (MSI).The Transportation department uses capital funding on projects listed in the Council approved Transportation Infrastructure Investment Plan (TIIP), which defines the priority and timing of major infrastructure projects. The TIIP program emphasizes pedestrian and cycling in high density areas where these methods of transportation are more effective and efficient at moving people, support land use and lessen environmental impacts. The new bridge achieves these objectives and does so with a cost comparable to similar size bridges.
So based on this, it seems that this money could have also been used to add capacity to the rec path network in the city, but perhaps not build new paths on the fringe?? So Calgarian, according to this, that 25M couldn't have been used for rec centres, schools, etc.

Details on the TIIP can be found here (http://www.calgary.ca/DocGallery/BU/trans_planning/network_planning/tiip_brochure_aug.pdf).

Interesting to see that bridges/overpasses consume about 75% of the budget for improving pedestrian/cycle mobility. Of special note is the priority for overpasses:

1A Pedestrian Gateway over Bow River. 2009-2011
1B Pedestrian Overpass Metis Tr./64 Ave. N.E. 2009
1C Pedestrian Overpass Macleod Tr./61st Ave. S 2009-2010
1D Pedestrian Overpass Macleod Tr. at Erlton 2011
1E City Wide Pedestrian Overpass Program

[Calgarian]

I can't remember, but what were the strings around the $25M used for the bridge - wasn't this provincial money that had to be spent on transportation related capital expendatures?? If so, this money could never have been used for rec centres, schools, etc. Perhaps another interchange or rec path expansion.

Unfortunately money is not all the same, and sometimes it can only be used for specific purposes. I know that I'd rather have this bridge than another interchange.

I don't remember any strings being used, nor do I recall this being grant money from the province. There were strings on the St Patricks money IIRC, and that was going to be recovered by selling money in the EV.

Edit; I stand corrected.

[Ramsayfarian]

If it went to council, we'd end up with a water-downed piece of cheap crap designed by some council crony. Actually, we'd probably get nothing at all. This council can't do anything without turning into a politically-motivated squabble.

And yeah, that pathway is pretty awesome.

I don't mean about the design, I mean we signed a contract with Calatrava before council approved building a bridge.

[Ramsayfarian]

From today's Sun:

"Eleven out of 12 mayor wannabes agree — the Peace Bridge plan wasn’t a bright one.

Of the dozen candidates vying for Calgary’s top job who showed up at a weekend mayoral forum, just one disagreed with a moderator’s question asking the hopefuls if they thought the $25-million Peace Bridge was a “dumb idea.”

The majority who jumped off the controversial pedestrian bridge at a forum in the East Village Saturday said the span is still a sore spot for many Calgarians and one of the primary issues still on the minds of vexed voters.

Poll-leading candidates Ald. Ric McIver and former CTV anchor Barb Higgins found themselves on the same page on the bridge designed by Spanish architect Santiago Calatrava.

Higgins also called the bridge a symbol of a dysfunctional council but noted it’s time for those seeking a seat on the next council to move on.

“It has been a symbol of the problems that go on at city hall — the way the money was being spent, how the system wasn’t transparent,” she said.

“It’s one of those done deals so maybe that’s why it’s a safe lightning rod.”

McIver, who routinely voted against the bridge plans while on council, said the bridge could even be the death knell for the careers of those who voted in favour.

“I think it’ll end up costing several members of council their seats,” he said.

“Council basically shoved it down everyone’s throats and it wasn’t just a mistake — this was long-term, calculated disregard for the citizens of Calgary.”

Naheed Nenshi said while he didn’t agree with the notion that the controversial bridge was a “dumb idea,” he did have major concerns with the process, and that’s why he raised his hand when the question was posed.

“I don’t have a problem with the city building beautiful things — where I do have a problem is with the entire process,” he said.

“How does a bridge that serves a community of 3,000 people expect to serve 5,000 people every day? How did it get to be sole-sourced?”

Ald. Bob Hawkesworth, the only candidate who disagreed that the Peace Bridge was a bad idea, defended the need for the pricey piece of infrastructure.

“If all I knew about the bridge is what I heard through the media, I’d probably be opposed as well,” he said.

“This is about building infrastructure to get people out of their cars within a 5-km radius of downtown Calgary.”

[Wooster]

^ Who knows where they got their traffic estimates from, but the bridge doesn't ONLY serve people who live in Sunnyside and Eau Claire. It's at the centre of a regional pathway, therefore people from all over the region using the pathway system will use this bridge. That's not to defend the process for which this bridge was created, which is symptomatic of a opaque procurement process, nor its prioritization over other infrastructure projects (including other cycling and pedestrian projects), but nonetheless it will be a useful bridge to quite a few users.

[MalcolmTucker]

Meh, who cares is my attitude. What is done is done. Can't stop it now any more than the WLRT route can be changed.

[nick.flood]

From today's Sun:

“How does a bridge that serves a community of 3,000 people expect to serve 5,000 people every day? How did it get to be sole-sourced?”



What the? How come this bridge only gets to be used by Kensington/Sunnyside residents? Do you need a resident pass card to get on the bridge? Why is it only one way? Pretty bad planning if you're not going to allow the rest of the city's citizens use it to cross the river. /sarcasm

[Ramsayfarian]

^ Who knows where they got their traffic estimates from, but the bridge doesn't ONLY serve people who live in Sunnyside and Eau Claire. It's at the centre of a regional pathway, therefore people from all over the region using the pathway system will use this bridge. That's not to defend the process for which this bridge was created, which is symptomatic of a opaque procurement process, nor its prioritization over other infrastructure projects (including other cycling and pedestrian projects), but nonetheless it will be a useful bridge to quite a few users.

I think Nenshi is referring that the bridge is really only accessible from the north by the residents of Sunnyside. Pedestrian traffic from other north side communities have to walk by other bridges to reach this one. .

[CorporateWhore]

“If all I knew about the bridge is what I heard through the media, I’d probably be opposed as well,” he said.

Nailed it!

[Ramsayfarian]

Nailed it!

Then maybe Bob should enlighten the rest of us.

[Calgarian]

I think Nenshi is referring that the bridge is really only accessible from the north by the residents of Sunnyside. Pedestrian traffic from other north side communities have to walk by other bridges to reach this one. .

That is a pretty good point. Aside from people for whom this bridge will be the closest, most people that use it will have bypassed a bridge or two already. The one thing that I really like about this bridge is it took cyclists into account, the rest of the pedestrian bridges are too narrow, even when they dismount.

[Calgarian]

Then maybe Bob should enlighten the rest of us.

I think Hawkesworthe had a pretty good point.

[Ramsayfarian]

I think Hawkesworthe had a pretty good point.

Luckily his hat covers it.

Bob is grasping at straws. He's the only mayoral candidate that doesn't have an issue with the bridge, because he can't have an issue as he voted for it.

What could he be referring to? My guess is the fact that the city had already signed a contract with Calatrava before it even went to council.

This wasn't reported in the media at the time as that tidbit of info was discovered by that auditor who wasn't fit to audit. I can only imagine what a competent auditor would find.

[Doug]

That is a pretty good point. Aside from people for whom this bridge will be the closest, most people that use it will have bypassed a bridge or two already. The one thing that I really like about this bridge is it took cyclists into account, the rest of the pedestrian bridges are too narrow, even when they dismount.


Too bad it is in such an inconvenient location. Not only are the 10th Street and LRT bridges close by, but the north approach to the bridge is at a very narrow point on the pathway with no easy way to cross Memorial. Forcing cyclists over to 10th Street to cross Memorial is more or less directing them to the 10th Street bridge. Even if the Peace Bridge does attract traffic, the merge onto the pathway will cause congestion and safety concerns. Everything about the Peace Bridge screams rushed decisions. Sure it has an "iconc" design, but it looks like it will fail the most important test of all, which is being useful.

[mersar]

..but the north approach to the bridge is at a very narrow point on the pathway with no easy way to cross Memorial. Forcing cyclists over to 10th Street to cross Memorial is more or less directing them to the 10th Street bridge...

Except of course the fact there will be a controlled crossing on the Memorial immediately adjacent to the bridge.

[DavidKuitunen]

Too bad it is in such an inconvenient location. Not only are the 10th Street and LRT bridges close by, but the north approach to the bridge is at a very narrow point on the pathway with no easy way to cross Memorial. Forcing cyclists over to 10th Street to cross Memorial is more or less directing them to the 10th Street bridge. Even if the Peace Bridge does attract traffic, the merge onto the pathway will cause congestion and safety concerns. Everything about the Peace Bridge screams rushed decisions. Sure it has an "iconc" design, but it looks like it will fail the most important test of all, which is being useful.

I think the design of the bridge is well suited for the area. There is no other bridge in Calgary I can think of with separated pedestrian/cycling grade. I doubt I'll ever take 10th street bridge after the peace bridge is built. I guess only time will tell how functional the Bridge is. I feel it is a necessary investment for Calgary, I don't really understand why so many people get upset about it and I hardly ever hear people complain about the ring road being a massive waste of money.

[MarkL]

In my opinion one of the main causes of this ridiculous "controversy" over the bridge was a massive failure by the City and its PR people to communicate the justifications for, technical requirements of, the process, etc. Pretty much everything. If they had simply properly communicated what's on the City website now, I really don't think there would have been so many issues.

I am not denying that some of the processes at the City are inefficient, backwards, or borderline corrupt. But, this is common to bureaucracy in every form, and especially municipal governments. Sole sourcing is common practice at every level of government. And it's not going to change with a new Mayor and city council, which is why so many of the comments coming out of the new candidates are so laughable.

It's really pretty simple. This is a piece of infrastructure. It builds pedestrian and cycling capacity, which is somewhat needed now, but it is being built more so for the population projections that the city has made for the north part of the inner city over the next 25 years. And it's a far more efficient design than any of the other river crossings.

It's like adding another lane to a freeway, more than anything (a process, I might add that is often sole-sourced).

[mr.steevo]

Please,

Facts and logic are no replacement for ignorance and hysteria.

s.

[DizzyEdge]

In my opinion one of the main causes of this ridiculous "controversy" over the bridge was a massive failure by the City and its PR people to communicate the justifications for, technical requirements of, the process, etc. Pretty much everything. If they had simply properly communicated what's on the City website now, I really don't think there would have been so many issues.



This is really the case with most things the city does. It's unfortunate but they pretty much have to have a PR campaign for every project based on the assumption that anything that doesn't benefit every Calgarian in obvious ways will become headline fodder.

[Bigtime]

If anyone wants to read some real stupidity today, go check out the "feature letter" in todays Calgary Herald.

There are just not enough facepalms to explain it, and it pisses me off that The Herald makes such an uneducated and ridiculous letter the one they choose to feature.

It would be best to see the hardcopy version, as it includes a picture of the bridge the writer is comparing the Peace bridge to.

[Innersoul1]

Where is this letter you speak of?

[Bigtime]

It's in todays Herald, I don't think you can see it online unless you have the digital copy.

Someone scanned it and put it in the Calgary thread for you to see it.

[Bigtime]

Hot damn! Some pictures of the steel painted red and ready to head to Calgary!

http://communities.canada.com/calgaryherald/blogs/hallmonitor/archive/2010/09/23/seeing-the-red.aspx

[You Need A Thneed]

Was about to post the same thing. It is looking good. That will be quite a few wide load trucks driving most of the way across Canada - at least I'm assuming they are heading that way around the earth. Those loads have to be at least 6m wide.

[Ramsayfarian]

I hope that bridge isn't too wide for the roads. Although, I would find that kind of funny and par for the course.

[You Need A Thneed]

I hope that bridge isn't too wide for the roads. Although, I would find that kind of funny and par for the course.

It shouldn't be too wide for anything, it will just require two pilot vehicles for every load (I think) - one in front and one behind. Considering that there will be about 16 pieces, thats a lot of vehicle kms across Canada.

16 x 3 x ~5000 = 240,000 kms.

Perhaps they can use one set of pilot vehicles for more than one peice of the bridge if they drive together.

[MalcolmTucker]

What would the weight be like? Any guesses? Given the timeline, could be airlifting them...

Plus it wouldn't be 5000, it would likely be shipped through Montreal - or I guess even all the way to Thunder Bay.

[Calgarian]

I doubt they would bring them in by air, that would be halla expansive. They will probably bring them in by Rail if anything.

When are they supposed to be getting installed?

[You Need A Thneed]

I doubt they would bring them in by air, that would be halla expansive. They will probably bring them in by Rail if anything.

When are they supposed to be getting installed?

I doubt you can take loads that wide by rail.

I imagine they will start putting them together as soon as they get here. THey still wanted to open the bridge up in November. I have no idea whether they are on schedule, but we haven;t heard anything that would say they aren't on schedule.

[Calgarian]

I doubt you can take loads that wide by rail.

I imagine they will start putting them together as soon as they get here. THey still wanted to open the bridge up in November. I have no idea whether they are on schedule, but we haven;t heard anything that would say they aren't on schedule.

Rail can probably accomodate wider loads than roads can.

[Wooster]

When does the white paint get added?

[MalcolmTucker]

You would just need to build jigs to hold the pieces vertically, to travel by rail.

As for flying, it would be expensive, but logistically very simple which might make it more competitive than one might initially think. Shall see, shall see.

[Bigtime]

Well if a big 747 or Antonov 124 freighter shows up in the next few weeks we'll have a pretty good answer to that question. Some of our YYC spotter peeps will be able to get the goods on what was on board.

[Calgarian]

Looking at the pictures, it appears that they are halves of the bridge that will join at the top and bottom of the bridge, so the pieces that are there are the 2 sides which are narrower than the full 6m, probably 4m. That should make a difference in how it is transported. Can't wait to see it up this winter adding some colour to Eau Claire.

[You Need A Thneed]

You would just need to build jigs to hold the pieces vertically, to travel by rail.

As for flying, it would be expensive, but logistically very simple which might make it more competitive than one might initially think. Shall see, shall see.

Considering that one of the pictures has the piece sitting on a truck, and the other pictures seems to show the same jigging, I would have to think it's quite likely that they are coming by truck.

[nick.flood]

When does the white paint get added?

I wonder if this part of the design was cut and the whole thing done in the one colour.

[You Need A Thneed]

Looking at the pictures, it appears that they are halves of the bridge that will join at the top and bottom of the bridge, so the pieces that are there are the 2 sides which are narrower than the full 6m, probably 4m. That should make a difference in how it is transported. Can't wait to see it up this winter adding some colour to Eau Claire.

I'm pretty sure it's still very close to 6 metres wide, the other way is 6 metres clear on the path, meaning that the bridge structure is probably nearly 7. Vertically, it's flattened a little bit, but all that much. I'm pretty sure it's 6m or quite close to it.

[You Need A Thneed]

I wonder if this part of the design was cut and the whole thing done in the one colour.

I would think that the white paint would get done in place. Even the red will at the very least have to be touched up (where they will weld the sections together), so it might get more coats of red paint too.

[MalcolmTucker]

Considering that one of the pictures has the piece sitting on a truck, and the other pictures seems to show the same jigging, I would have to think it's quite likely that they are coming by truck.
I don't think the truck is coming over from Spain ;)

[Calgarian]

I don't think the truck is coming over from Spain ;)

Lol, I was going to post the same thing.

However it gets here, I can't wait to see it in person.

[outoftheice]

And in true Calgary fashion, just as you're starting to get really excited about something new....

Opening of controversial Peace Bridge now two months late


By KELLY CRYDERMAN, Calgary Herald September 23, 2010

CALGARY - Calgary’s controversial Peace Bridge linking Eau Claire to Sunnyside will not be opened for use until at least two months later than planned.

Originally city officials had said the bridge, to be located just west of Prince’s Island, would be available for pedestrians and cyclists by this November — shortly after the municipal election.

Late on Thursday, the city issued a news release stating the $24.5 bridge designed by Santiago Calatrava will not be completed until late January, 2011.

However, the parts of the bridge will start to be delivered in the days ahead.

“This weekend the first shipment of Peace Bridge components will arrive,” the news release stated.

“A truck carrying steel elements for the bridge is tentatively scheduled to arrive at the construction site late Friday evening. As an oversized load, the truck is limited in its travel to after 9 p.m.”

The city said this is the first of 16 shipments. The remainder of components will be delivered at regular intervals over the next several weeks with the last elements arriving by the end of October.


Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/Opening+controversial+Peace+Bridge+months+late/3570395/story.html#ixzz10OsLdSjK

[You Need A Thneed]

Global news said the delay is due to fabrication problems.

Not really surprising, the work is quite complicated.

[freeweed]

Coupla things:

1. The steel came by ship from Spain, into the St. Lawrence (of course), and likely unloaded at Montreal onto trucks. They're taking the TCH all the way from there.

2. Roads can carry far, far wider loads than rail. Even though there aren't many (if any) rail tunnels east of the rockies, there are still many many rock cuts where the train cars have only a few feet of clearance. So take whatever a standard railcar is and that's your maximum width. You can't just run a train at 10kph whenever you get to a tight spot, as you can with trucks. And there's a max height too, due to overhead lines and all sorts of other things (trees), so they can't just stick them up vertically. Northern Ontario is a BITCH to get odd sized rail loads through. Roads, on the other hand, can take houses, those huge tractors, you name it. They just run some pilot vehicles and traffic can go around by ducking onto the shoulder. It happens all the time.

About the biggest thing I've seen come by rail in this country was a full wind turbine. Each blade too 2 cars but the blades are fairly narrow. The nacelle and main standing piece are also rather narrow. It's pretty cool seeing an entire windmill on a train, because it takes up over a dozen cars all in a row!

[Koolfire]

Coupla things:

1. The steel came by ship from Spain, into the St. Lawrence (of course), and likely unloaded at Montreal onto trucks. They're taking the TCH all the way from there.



Could of even been reloaded back onto ship and taken all the way up to Thunder Bay.

[Ramsayfarian]

It shouldn't be too wide for anything, it will just require two pilot vehicles for every load (I think) - one in front and one behind. Considering that there will be about 16 pieces, thats a lot of vehicle kms across Canada.

16 x 3 x ~5000 = 240,000 kms.

Perhaps they can use one set of pilot vehicles for more than one peice of the bridge if they drive together.

How many trips across the bridge are needed to eat up that carbon footprint?

[fusili]

How many trips across the bridge are needed to eat up that carbon footprint?

I don't know about you, but I really don't want to eat a carbon footprint, it'll taste terrible, especially after crossing a bridge.

[Bigtime]

How many trips across the bridge are needed to eat up that carbon footprint?

Hmm, interesting question.

Also take into account the carbon footprint of the transit over by ship to Montreal.

In the end I wonder if flying them over would have actually had less of an impact than the system being used (cost being excluded of course).

[Me&You]

Hmm, interesting question.

Also take into account the carbon footprint of the transit over by ship to Montreal.

In the end I wonder if flying them over would have actually had less of an impact than the system being used (cost being excluded of course).

Or, you know, they could've done something crazy and fabricated it locally. I hear there's a welder or two in Alberta. :D

Edit: Minor rant - I don't really mind the single sourcing of the design. I can get over seemingly exorbitant cost. But why the f**k, in the midst of near economic disaster, are we out sourcing materials and fabrication jobs that so easily could've been done locally, or at least within Canada?

"The Peace Bridge by Santiago Calatrava. To honor the sacrifice of many brave Canadians for this great country. Built in Spain."

[Bigtime]

Or, you know, they could've done something crazy and fabricated it locally. I hear there's a welder or two in Alberta. :D

We would have paid MEGABUX $$$$$. All the Canadian bids on the steel were more than the Euro bids.

[MalcolmTucker]

Or, you know, they could've done something crazy and fabricated it locally. I hear there's a welder or two in Alberta. :D

We would have paid MEGABUX $$$$$. All the Canadian bids on the steel were more than the Euro bids.

Yeah. I like this example the best:
There are two technologies for producing automobiles in America. One is to manufacture them in Detroit, and the other is to grow them in Iowa. Everybody knows about the first technology; let me tell you about the second. First, you plant seeds, which are the raw material from which automobiles are constructed. You wait a few months until wheat appears. Then you harvest the wheat, load it onto ships, and sail the ships eastward into the Pacific Ocean. After a few months, the ships reappear with Toyotas on them.

International trade is nothing but a form of technology. The fact that there is a place called Japan, with people and factories, is quite irrelevant to Americans’ well-being. To analyze trade policies, we might as well assume that Japan is a giant machine with mysterious inner workings that convert wheat into cars.

Any policy designed to favor the first American technology over the second is a policy designed to favor American auto producers in Detroit over American auto producers in Iowa. A tax or a ban on “imported” automobiles is a tax or a ban on Iowa-grown automobiles. If you protect Detroit carmakers from competition, then you must damage Iowa farmers, because Iowa farmers are the competition.

…It is sheer superstition to think that an Iowa-grown Camry is any less “American” than a Detroit-built Taurus. Policies rooted in superstition do not frequently bear efficient fruit. Link (http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/16/the-iowa-car-crop/)

[Me&You]

We would have paid MEGABUX $$$$$. All the Canadian bids on the steel were more than the Euro bids.

If that's the case, s'ok... I hadn't heard that there was a bidding process for the fabrication.

[Ramsayfarian]

According to the frontpage of The Sun's free newspaper, the bridge should be arriving today.

[Rusty van Reddick]

in the midst of near economic disaster, are we out sourcing materials and fabrication jobs that so easily could've been done locally, or at least within Canada?

"The Peace Bridge by Santiago Calatrava. To honor the sacrifice of many brave Canadians for this great country. Built in Spain."

Economic DISASTER? In the jurisdiction that weathered the recession better than almost anywhere in the world? Drama queen much?

Meantime, Spain's unemployment rate is almost 20%. They're desperate; they did it much, much more cheaply. This is not a scandal so nix the drama.

[polishavenger]

Yeah. I like this example the best:
Link (http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/16/the-iowa-car-crop/)


The difference between the Iowa grown cars and the detroit manufactured cars in this example is how much money each process generates for the local producer. Farming is vital of course, but the value added in manufacturing is far more lucrative. Also, if the manufacturing in Detroit creates suppliers of car parts in the US over suppliers of car parts in other parts of the world, you can add that to the value added of the detroit process vs the Iowa process.

So if you manufacture the cars in detroit, Iowa can also ship the wheat to detroit to feed those manufacturers instead of the ones in Japan. Im not protectionist by any means, but I'm also not pro the race to the bottom which is unfettered globalization.

[Just Build It]

According to the frontpage of The Sun's free newspaper, the bridge should be arriving today.

How are the pieces arriving? By train I presume?

[Bigtime]

The article in The Herald says the pieces are arriving by truck.

[Innersoul1]

Love how the Sun painted the arrival of the bridge parts as leaving Calgarians FURIOUS. Sensationalism is a beautiful thing! :cool:

[Bigtime]

Stuff we've paid for is arriving? I'M PISSED OFF!

[MalcolmTucker]

The difference between the Iowa grown cars and the detroit manufactured cars in this example is how much money each process generates for the local producer. Farming is vital of course, but the value added in manufacturing is far more lucrative. Also, if the manufacturing in Detroit creates suppliers of car parts in the US over suppliers of car parts in other parts of the world, you can add that to the value added of the detroit process vs the Iowa process.

So if you manufacture the cars in detroit, Iowa can also ship the wheat to detroit to feed those manufacturers instead of the ones in Japan. Im not protectionist by any means, but I'm also not pro the race to the bottom which is unfettered globalization.

This last statement is inherently contradictory.

[Me&You]

... Drama queen much?
...

Hi, my name's Pot. You must must be Kettle. Nice to meet you. :cheers:

What would you call the worst world wide economic conditions since the great depression?

Anyways, it would have been nice if some part would've hand Canadian hands involved.

[Bender77]

Could of even been reloaded back onto ship and taken all the way up to Thunder Bay.

CN actually have a rail line from there to Northern Alberta for transporting massive pieces of equipment for the Oilsands. http://dcnonl.com/article/id30239

[fusili]

So if you manufacture the cars in detroit, Iowa can also ship the wheat to detroit to feed those manufacturers instead of the ones in Japan. Im not protectionist by any means, but I'm also not pro the race to the bottom which is unfettered globalization.

Or a race to be the most efficient at what you do.

[Bigtime]

Anyways, it would have been nice if some part would've hand Canadian hands involved.

Well I'm assuming some Canadians will be welding the thing together, or did we ship over a bunch of Portugese to do the job? ;)

[mooky]

Or a race to be the most efficient at what you do.

There is a nuanced debate to be had on this issue of "free trade" versus "fair trade" and how economies of scale sometimes bully prices on products to an almost ludicrously low level such that the manufacture makes (almost) nothing per widget, but its not a bridge specific debate and doesn't really belong here.

[fusili]

Anyways, it would have been nice if some part would've hand Canadian hands involved.

Ahhh, good ol' protectionism.

I am sure Peruvians get really pissed that Scotiabank has so many branches in their country, that Americans lose their minds to think Blackberry is a Canadian company, and that Europeans absolutely deride the fact that a lot of their trains are built by Bombardier. You should stop buying any toys (China), clothes (India), fruit (US, Chile, etc), Coffee (Columbia, Guatemala, Indonesia, Ethiopia), Wine (France, Argentina, Australia) and make sure that other countries do not buy our nanotechnology (Edmonton), Lumber (BC), Water (Quebec and Ontario), or Oil (Alberta). Then everything will be right in the world.


Do you know how Canadians are involved in this process: we get a bridge.

[Calgarian]

Someone should go camp out at the site and take pictures!

[freeweed]

Anyways, it would have been nice if some part would've hand Canadian hands involved.

There have been, and will be. Who do you think is going to assemble this thing?

[freeweed]

Or a race to be the most efficient at what you do.

If by "efficient" you mean "completely ignoring environmental consequences" and "industrial revolution style slave-labour conditions", then sure. It's far more efficient in other parts of the globe.

[MalcolmTucker]

If by "efficient" you mean "completely ignoring environmental consequences" and "industrial revolution style slave-labour conditions", then sure. It's far more efficient in other parts of the globe.

We are talking about Spain here...

[O-tacular]

The resident worm tongue at the Calgary scum made the front page on today's paper with his latest diatribe.

Calatravesty of a bridge arrives

By Rick Bell, Calgary Sun

It’s finally on its way, the pieces of the $25-million designer footbridge fabricated in Spain.

Arrival time of the first load on the banks of the Bow? Late Friday night.

A lot of the other shipments will arrive late at night throughout the rest of the city election campaign with the last metal here in time for Halloween. How appropriate.

Nothing in the two decades of city politics witnessed by your columnist has been talked about more often. Nothing has made the blood pressure rise so high.

Doesn’t matter who you are, where you live, what you do, it is the bridge, that damn bridge, that stupid bridge or worse. The bridge is $25 million of in-our-face disregard from those who run this city and want to feed their XXXL egos and push their personal agendas on somebody else’s hard-earned dime.

They chose a swanky bridge just as the global economy melted down, picking this bridge and this designer with no open bidding and no public debate on whether there should have been a bridge like this at all.

To make matters worse, the thumbs-up to the bridge and the middle finger to us happened just before city council passed a three-year budget, which this year means a 6.7% tax hike and $60 million in cuts.

Yes, the city shoved the bridge down our throats and if anybody tried to spit it out they were accused of being too stupid to understand. The money, the timing, the arrogance of it all.

But Bronco wanted his bridge. Druh and her latte-lifters loved the bridge even more than the fancy public toilet on 17 Ave. S.W. and it stunk more.

The city named it the Peace Bridge and hoped to get the veterans onside.

The latest news comes Thursday morning from a Big Apple P.R. outfit representing celebrity architect Santiago Calatrava, who designed the bridge.

The folks in Manhattan gush about the “highly anticipated steel” and the “vibrant red steel” of the “leisurely passageway.”

They swoon over the “tubular structure” whose “sculptural appearance generates a striking contrast with the landscape” and marvel at how Calatrava enclosed the bridge “filling its upper openings with glazed leaves bent to the same shape as the exterior of the helix form.” They forgot the Austrian glass.
Calatrava says his goal was "to pay homage to the citizens of Calgary.”

He hopes we will enjoy the bridge, rubbing salt in the wound. The designer adds his work on this bridge was “challenging.” No doubt.

The city hired a guy who designs bridges pointing skyward to do a bridge which couldn’t point skyward because ... ooops ... it’s near a helipad.

The laser-cut metal pieces will be put together here and then workers will slide the bridge across the Bow and lower it to its final position, a bridge very close to another pedestrian and cycling span to the west.

It will be completed in January 2011 and not the original October 2010 opening.

The city bigshots aren’t talking big anymore. No more crowing about how world-class the bridge will make the city. Nope, they issue a statement just before quitting time. The steel is coming. The end.

You know, it wasn’t just the money. It’s how the city did it.

Tracy McTaggart looked into the matter. Remember Tracy, the city auditor who pointed out the city’s out-of-control spending and then got the boot?

Tracy found the city didn’t follow its policy and procedures. They gave the contract to Calatrava and there is no sign they looked at other designers even though the paper shufflers told council they did.

Most of the decisions about the bridge, including getting Calatrava, were made by John Hubbell, head of city transportation. He retired and scored a consulting contract with the city.

The decision to go ahead with the Calatrava bridge was made nine months before city council voted on it and well before the people at the city responsible for contracts were involved.

Contract talks with Calatrava started before any money was approved. The audit said council approval should have been secured “prior to deviating” from the city’s own principles.

As it was, a committee of aldermen nixed the bridge but it went to council and in nine years Bronco never lost a vote at council. At the meeting, with Ald. Gord Lowe missing, it looked like the bridge would be toast on a 7-7 vote.

But Ald. Dale Hodges, who opposed the bridge, left before the vote and the bridge passed 7-6.

Chris Harper, who is against the bridge and is taking on Hodges in this election, says people in the area often mention the bridge and still wonder why Hodges left, since he’s never elaborated.

Ald. Diane Colley-Urquhart says the bridge is where people could see city hall for what it was.

“It was the tipping point. People finally had something tangible to hold up and say there you go. They had enough.”

But enough was not enough to stop it.

From: http://www.calgarysun.com/news/columnists/rick_bell/2010/09/24/15460306.html

[Calgarian]

Can we not have Rick Bell articles posted here? the guy is an absolute moron and should keep his ignorant rhetoric to himself. Calling people names and insulting the people who live in Sunnyside is just plain ignorant and is quite despicable, shame on the Sun for even allowing this crap.

[O-tacular]

Sorry Calgarian, but I just found it too unbelievably funny not to post. I swear he'll rant about the peace bridge to his grave.

[Bigtime]

On one hand I hate Bell, on the other he has been quite effectively calling out Barb Higgins for not having any substance and not releasing her donor list.

I'M SO TORN RIGHT NOW. Is this bizarro world?

[O-tacular]

About the only thing he's said I agree with is his take on Barb Higgins. Besides that he's an idiot. I think he's traded being an alcoholic for a rage-aholic.

[Calgarian]

About the only thing he's said I agree with is his take on Barb Higgins. Besides that he's an idiot. I think he's traded being an alcoholic for a rage-aholic.

Someone get this guy a bag of grass and a Bob Marley CD so he'll chill the hell out.

[O-tacular]

If only we could somehow harness his rage and put it to good use. Can you imagine him writing articles ranting about the insufficient pedestrian infrastructure and urban sprawl.

edit: Better yet, could he just go postal and blow up the Calgary Sun building?

[Calgarian]

If only we could somehow harness his rage and put it to good use. Can you imagine him writing articles ranting about the insufficient pedestrian infrastructure and urban sprawl.

lol, but that's social engineering! Calgarians want to live in 3000sqft houses on 5 acre pieces of land while driving a pickup truck that's 3 storeys high and takes up 2 lanes, and no Latte sipping hippie is going to convince him otherwise! :superwhip

[O-tacular]

Haha! We really do live in the land of the lowest common denominator don't we?

P.S. You forgot about the truck balls.

[freeweed]

We are talking about Spain here...

We were responding to someone's comment about unfettered globalism. Spain definitely would not be producing this steel in that sort of situation.

[freeweed]

On one hand I hate Bell, on the other he has been quite effectively calling out Barb Higgins for not having any substance and not releasing her donor list.

I'M SO TORN RIGHT NOW. Is this bizarro world?

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

[mooky]

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

:tup: :worship: :haha:

[Bigtime]

Even a stopped clock is correct twice a day.

Mind = BLOWN

[kw5150]

Oh Rick Bell? Just put it to rest already!!!! Finally the pedestrians and cyclists have something getting built that celebrates sustainability. I would love to see this guy live in Barcelona where they have been spending millions and millions building a church for the last 100 years.

Calgary is a cycling city (well I think it is) and this is an important part of the bigger picture.

I will be so happy when this thing is finally open. I wonder if some people will avoid using it just out of principle? lol. Someone should wait there until Rick Bell uses it to Cross the river and snap some pictures......lol

[Calgarian]

Oh Rick Bell? Just put it to rest already!!!! Finally the pedestrians and cyclists have something getting built that celebrates sustainability. I would love to see this guy live in Barcelona where they have been spending millions and millions building a church for the last 100 years.

Calgary is a cycling city (well I think it is) and this is an important part of the bigger picture.

I will be so happy when this thing is finally open. I wonder if some people will avoid using it just out of principle? lol. Someone should wait there until Rick Bell uses it to Cross the river and snap some pictures......lol

I bet people will vandalize it on principle. There are still a lot of rednecks in this city.

[greenboy]

I've had dealings with Rick Bell and confirm he is a complete prick, not just for his views but on a basic human level.

[fusili]

I would love to see this guy live in Barcelona where they have been spending millions and millions building a church for the last 100 years.


As well as building a 48km, 39 station metro line that will be Europe's deepest and longest metro line. Mmmm sustainable transportation.

[polishavenger]

This last statement is inherently contradictory.

Explain how? The very basis of globalization is a movement of labour and regularotry intensive activity to cheaper and loser markets. Its born out every day when factories relocate to areas of the world where they can pollute more and pay less.

[polishavenger]

Or a race to be the most efficient at what you do.

If you look at Chinese factory output and labour compared to any industrialized country, the Chinese level of efficiency is disatrously low, both in terms of material, quality and energy. The only competitive advantage they have is the rock bottom cost of labour and the lack of any environmental and safety regulation.

[kw5150]

As well as building a 48km, 39 station metro line that will be Europe's deepest and longest metro line. Mmmm sustainable transportation.

I wonder what would have happened to central park New York if people had the same idea of city development as Calgary? Would it be 1/30the size? Calgary just needs to grow up and embrace inner city beauty. People who make the choice to move to the outskirts of the city should not be whining as much as they do about what happens in the inner city. The very land they build on out there is very expensive for the city to develop and that makes them hypocritical. There, now I am whining about that. Take that Rick Bell and all of the Calgary whiners!

[kw5150]

I bet people will vandalize it on principle. There are still a lot of rednecks in this city.

And then the city would have to pay to clean it up!! Thats how dumb rednecks are!